U of North Texas ATO Investigated for Hazing
 

https://www.ntdaily.com/fraternity-a...on-for-hazing/

You can’t fix stupid. How hard is it to just NOT haze?? It just never ends.

That said, this is my DD’s school. Greek life as a whole is suffering as a result of constant investigation/probation/suspension/recolonization, etc. It drives me crazy when I see kids at party schools being able to walk around in broad daylight with solo cups and at UNT the boys and girls aren’t even allowed to attend each other’s bid days. Greek life isn’t very big there and they are held to a different standard.

Last semester Pi Kappa Phi got the axe. This semester (already) Theta Chi.
The school’s largest single donatation ever just came from a Pike, and they’ve can’t even occupy their own house.

Few fraternities there are very strong as they’re always trying to reorganize. It affects sorority life, too..

After reading the school newspaper’s article about the horrendous treatment of the ATO pledges, I have very mixed feelings about the young man who “turned in” ATO being named and directly quoted. Part of me admires his courage; another part worries about the pressure and possible danger he could be facing. While I do sometimes wonder about “anonymous” sources, I know how vindictive college-age kids can be. I just hope he was okay with being named and quoted and was not blindsided.

The Sigma Nu chapter down there seems to ride that same cycle, going from national relevance and high performance straight to having its charter suspended for hazing. You hate to see that.

On the positive side, the members of the Eli Young Band were members at that Sigma Nu chapter.

Without condoning hazing, I have to say I think this is the wrong question.

It *IS* difficult given that the definitions of hazing seem to encompass almost anything but chapter meetings and initiation rituals. Sure, that's hyperbole, but there are so many things that *might* be *considered* "hazing" that it may be difficult "not to haze".

No, I totally get that, but I meant how hard is it to not “haze = making pledges pass out, drink involuntarily, crawl through glass/vomit/etc.”.

The things in this case, if true, are unacceptable.

This all gets back to my question "define hazing." In skimming the article, the only thing that really stands out is the "ice bath" and getting yelled at. Do we want to say wall sits, push ups and the like are hazing? A lot of information out there talk about "athletic contests," rope courses, and the like as team building exercises. Where is that line drawn? It's a little more grey area IMO.

Has anyone seen any updates, that report on whether the chapter is actually being investigated? He says he was removed from the fraternity after a vote, because he thinks "members didn't like him." Is there some suspicion that his complaint may be somewhat vindictive in nature? An investigation would be prudent, to try to determine what was really going on that may have crossed the line.