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-   -   Schools where you absolutely positively need recs (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=112718)

armywife 10-01-2012 03:06 PM

Agree
 
I agree with you Georgia Greek. Get as many recs as you can but don't go into rush thinking you will be cut if you don't have a rec. Before my daughter went through rush, we read all of the information and blogs and went through Greek Chat threads with a fine tooth comb and it was very overwhelming. My daughter rushed as a sophomore and in reading all of the recruitment threads we thought her chances were slim at getting a bid, so we contacted everyone we knew that had ever been in a sorority and got as many recs as we could, however, we did not get recs for every sorority. She had a full party schedule throughout rush and on pref night, one of her final 3 parties was a house that she had not received a rec for. Bottom line do what you can to obtain recs but don't think you will be cut by a house if you don't have a rec ... I have seen that on here so many times - "you won't make it to the second round if you don't have a rec" and that is simply not true.

Always AlphaGam 10-01-2012 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armywife (Post 2182314)
I agree with you. Get as many recs as you can but don't go into rush thinking you will be cut if you don't have a rec. Before my daughter went through rush, we read all of the information and blogs and went through Greek Chat threads with a fine tooth comb and it was very overwhelming. My daughter rushed as a sophomore and in reading all of the recruitment threads we thought her chances were slim at getting a bid, so we contacted everyone we knew that had ever been in a sorority and got as many recs as we could, however, we did not get recs for every sorority. She had a full party schedule throughout rush and on pref night, one of her final 3 parties was a house that she had not received a rec for. Bottom line do what you can to obtain recs but don't think you will be cut by a house if you don't have a rec ... I have seen that on here so many times - "you won't make it to the second round if you don't have a rec" and that is simply not true.

Horrible, horrible advice.

You don't know that your daughter did not receive a rec by the end of round one. Please don't lead PNMs to believe this. You were not a part of membership selection during your daughter's recruitment, so really...you have no authority saying what you just said.

LadyLonghorn 10-01-2012 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armywife (Post 2182314)
I agree with you Georgia Greek. Get as many recs as you can but don't go into rush thinking you will be cut if you don't have a rec. Before my daughter went through rush, we read all of the information and blogs and went through Greek Chat threads with a fine tooth comb and it was very overwhelming. My daughter rushed as a sophomore and in reading all of the recruitment threads we thought her chances were slim at getting a bid, so we contacted everyone we knew that had ever been in a sorority and got as many recs as we could, however, we did not get recs for every sorority. She had a full party schedule throughout rush and on pref night, one of her final 3 parties was a house that she had not received a rec for. Bottom line do what you can to obtain recs but don't think you will be cut by a house if you don't have a rec ... I have seen that on here so many times - "you won't make it to the second round if you don't have a rec" and that is simply not true.

You need to sit down and stop dispensing advice that will crater a PNM's recruitment. You are the mother of a new member. You did not sit in membership selection. Your daughter has not even done so. You have no idea what recs she did or did not have. Unless you are there when someone hits the submit button or drops the paperwork in a mailbox, you simply do not know. Many PNMs have recs they don't know about. Many PNMs think they have recs but the member never sends them. The fact that your daughter received a bid in no way makes you an expert in Texas recruitment or any other.

Future PNMs, please disregard this person's advice. It could cost you a chance of getting a bid.

DubaiSis 10-01-2012 04:13 PM

The thing is, you SHOULD be stressing out about it, in April or so. By the time you get to August/September, it's time to let it go because it's too late. Girls do get bids without recs, but why kneecap yourself? The time spent finding and getting to know alumnae members is valuable for a variety of reasons, and then you have that box checked. A chapter may like you, but your lack of recommendations might drop you lower on their list. There have been a million discussions here about the difference between being CUT and just not making it high enough on the list to get a return invitation. Do you really want that lack of recommendation to possibly put you as #105 on their invitation list when they only get to #100?

I personally think the value of recommendations is not equal to the effort expended on both sides and I wish recommendations went back to the days when they were only sent by alumnae who actually personally knew the rushees. But those days are past, and I would recommend to any rushee to play the game fully. And that means getting recs (even 2-3 at some schools) for each chapter. And do it early so that when rush time comes around, you can focus on more important issues.

armywife 10-01-2012 10:03 PM

First of all LadyLonghorn, I am not telling girls to not get recs. I am simply saying that if you do not know someone in a particular sorority and you are unable to obtain a rec then do not stress out about it. I have never declared that I am an expert at recruitment, but I did share factual information about my daughter's recruitment at UT and the recruitment of a few others at SMU, Texas A&M and Michigan State. I know for a fact that my daughter did not receive a rec letter for a particular house - we did not know anyone that had ever been a member of that sorority, so we did not pursue a rec letter. This was one of three houses she went to for prefs. I agree with DubaiSis and think rec letters should come from people that actually know the pnm. I think it is crazy that rec letters are written off of resumes that the pnm sends to complete strangers. As an alumna, I would not want to write a rec letter for someone that I personally did not know.

DeltaBetaBaby 10-01-2012 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armywife (Post 2182424)
I know for a fact that my daughter did not receive a rec letter for a particular house

No, you don't.

LadyLonghorn 10-01-2012 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armywife (Post 2182424)
First of all LadyLonghorn, I am not telling girls to not get recs. I am simply saying that if you do not know someone in a particular sorority and you are unable to obtain a rec then do not stress out about it. I have never declared that I am an expert at recruitment, but I did share factual information about my daughter's recruitment at UT and the recruitment of a few others at SMU, Texas A&M and Michigan State. I know for a fact that my daughter did not receive a rec letter for a particular house - we did not know anyone that had ever been a member of that sorority, so we did not pursue a rec letter. This was one of three houses she went to for prefs. I agree with DubaiSis and think rec letters should come from people that actually know the pnm. I think it is crazy that rec letters are written off of resumes that the pnm sends to complete strangers. As an alumna, I would not want to write a rec letter for someone that I personally did not know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2182435)
No, you don't.

Werd.

What do you expect fom someone who also has the audacity to come to a Greek message board and tells us how horrible the rec system is and how alumnae should feel about writing info only recs?

Titchou 10-01-2012 11:16 PM

I can't count the number of times I've told a PNM we already had a form on her! Strong alum groups work their high schools and send in forms on the women without their knowledge. It goes on everywhere. You cannot guarantee that there was no form on your daughter or any of her friends. If a group requires one, they'll get it. One way or another - and without your knowledge.

thetalady 10-02-2012 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titchou (Post 2182459)
I can't count the number of times I've told a PNM we already had a form on her! Strong alum groups work their high schools and send in forms on the women without their knowledge. It goes on everywhere. You cannot guarantee that there was no form on your daughter or any of her friends. If a group requires one, they'll get it. One way or another - and without your knowledge.

^^^^^^ ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!

Please, please, Armywife, please believe us when we tell you this!

And I have written those rec letters from resumes and a conversation with the PNM that you dislike so much. I am not crazy about them either. I would much rather know the young lady personally, but sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do to help a PNM and trust your gut.

justgo_withit 10-02-2012 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetalady (Post 2182480)
I would much rather know the young lady personally, but sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do to help a PNM and trust your gut.

(coming from a school where we wouldn't have even known what to do with a rec so I might be totally off base)

Isn't it also that at these SWYAPNR a rec is often used as a box to check, not necessarily "an alumna says this PNM is a nice girl BID HER IMMEDIATELY"? Not only are you trusting your gut, but you've got however many actives also evaluating her membership potential, so rec ≠ bid by any means. From reading here it seems like recs indicate mostly that a PNM has her stuff together enough to plan this in advance and get it done, then followed by if she has any strong connection to the sorority, or specifically an alumna from that chapter, etc. I hope this makes sense, I need to go to bed! Haha

Additionally, I feel like the schools where a rec would be unusual and give a PNM any sort of special boost are not the schools where PNMs will be hitting up strangers for recs anyway.

Hartofsec 10-02-2012 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubaiSis (Post 2182336)
The thing is, you SHOULD be stressing out about it, in April or so. By the time you get to August/September, it's time to let it go because it's too late. Girls do get bids without recs, but why kneecap yourself? The time spent finding and getting to know alumnae members is valuable for a variety of reasons, and then you have that box checked. A chapter may like you, but your lack of recommendations might drop you lower on their list. There have been a million discussions here about the difference between being CUT and just not making it high enough on the list to get a return invitation. Do you really want that lack of recommendation to possibly put you as #105 on their invitation list when they only get to #100?

I personally think the value of recommendations is not equal to the effort expended on both sides and I wish recommendations went back to the days when they were only sent by alumnae who actually personally knew the rushees. But those days are past, and I would recommend to any rushee to play the game fully. And that means getting recs (even 2-3 at some schools) for each chapter. And do it early so that when rush time comes around, you can focus on more important issues.

^This is such good advice -- I hope PNMs listen. And this:


"...I would recommend to any rushee to play the game fully."


I was thinking the same -- if one choses to play this game, then do everything possible to win. Assembling rec/resume packets and locating multiple alums of multiple chapters does take a considerable amount of time and effort, however, the first time through formal recruitment is also the PNM's best opportunity. Considering the magnitude of a stressful recruitment week and the potential for heartbreak, I would hate to wonder, in retrospect, if a dozen more phone calls might have opened a door that closed after the first or second round of parties.


I wouldn't want to depend solely on conversational skills to pull me through the chaos of a crowded 20-minute party. Those conditions are not entirely under the control of the PNM. What arrives on paper, in advance, is (for the most part).


If a rec for every house just cannot be found, then proceed with no regrets. It is true that girls have even pledged houses where they assumed they had no rec -- but I wouldn't minimize the importance of recs -- ever -- if these can possibly be located.


Question for the RFM experts: Would it be accurate to assume that the chapters forced to release more girls (and extend fewer invites) would also be more likely to release those without recs (and earlier in the process)?

DubaiSis 10-02-2012 01:14 AM

I think that would fall into member selection and not RFM. But I think it is logical to think that every sorority has some sort of system of ranking girls one against the others, and if you are missing an element of optional "points" you are going to have a better chance of falling lower on the list. The higher performing chapters have to cut more girls and with the quality of girls going through rush, I think it's got to be a sad but truth that some girls will get cut simply by not having gotten a rec. Does the chapter like it? I'm sure they don't, but they have to find SOME reason to make cuts and there just aren't that many girls who seriously are not XYZ material. At least the rec represents a certain amount of commitment a girl put into the process.

LadyLonghorn 10-02-2012 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justgo_withit (Post 2182484)
(coming from a school where we wouldn't have even known what to do with a rec so I might be totally off base)

Isn't it also that at these SWYAPNR a rec is often used as a box to check, not necessarily "an alumna says this PNM is a nice girl BID HER IMMEDIATELY"? Not only are you trusting your gut, but you've got however many actives also evaluating her membership potential, so rec ≠ bid by any means. From reading here it seems like recs indicate mostly that a PNM has her stuff together enough to plan this in advance and get it done, then followed by if she has any strong connection to the sorority, or specifically an alumna from that chapter, etc. I hope this makes sense, I need to go to bed! Haha

Additionally, I feel like the schools where a rec would be unusual and give a PNM any sort of special boost are not the schools where PNMs will be hitting up strangers for recs anyway.

Recs play a more important role. They provide information about a PNM much earlier than when the recruitment registrations come in. The sooner chapters can get to know a PNM before recruitment, the better her chances of getting a second look. It also gives chapters the opportunity to pair the PNM with the best sister for her in that round, one who will have a lot in common with her and make a good impression as well as be able to have a conversation about familiar things and common interests that should make the PNM a little more relaxed. This is especially important in highly competitive recruitments where the first round is only a few minutes long and the strongest chapters may need to cut half the PNM pool after the first round.

Hartofsec 10-02-2012 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubaiSis (Post 2182488)
I think that would fall into member selection and not RFM. But I think it is logical to think that every sorority has some sort of system of ranking girls one against the others, and if you are missing an element of optional "points" you are going to have a better chance of falling lower on the list. The higher performing chapters have to cut more girls and with the quality of girls going through rush, I think it's got to be a sad but truth that some girls will get cut simply by not having gotten a rec. Does the chapter like it? I'm sure they don't, but they have to find SOME reason to make cuts and there just aren't that many girls who seriously are not XYZ material. At least the rec represents a certain amount of commitment a girl put into the process.

Yes, thanks, I guess that would fall more to member selection. And I agree with your logic.

Hartofsec 10-02-2012 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justgo_withit (Post 2182484)
Isn't it also that at these SWYAPNR a rec is often used as a box to check, not necessarily "an alumna says this PNM is a nice girl BID HER IMMEDIATELY"? Not only are you trusting your gut, but you've got however many actives also evaluating her membership potential, so rec ≠ bid by any means.

A rec certainly doesn't equal a bid, but at some schools (speaking for my own school, anyway), it may very well make the difference in receiving an invitation to the next round.

Most rec forms include info regarding whether or not the alum personally knows the girl, her family, and for how long, etc. Though even if the rec is an "info only" type sent by an alum who does not personally know the PNM, it is still advantageous to have this info arrive in advance of rush.


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