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-   -   Should we change the way PNMs think of Recruitment? (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=125239)

KSUViolet06 03-05-2012 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUAZD2001 (Post 2130050)
This seems a lot like how high school students apply so multiple colleges ranging from their dream campus to "safety schools." I have a feeling a HIGH percentage (95%+?) of students who don't get accepted to their first (or even second or third) choice still go on to college SOMEWHERE and have a pretty great experience.

This makes me wonder about a lot of things. At the majority of schools, the sorority experience is pretty much the same in all the chapters, so it's not as if your experience is going to be sub-par whether you receive a bid to your #1, #2, or #3 choice in the end.

That's why the phrase "I don't feel like I fit" rubs me the wrong way. Especially when a PNM is at a school where the chapters are averaging over 150 women. How does one "not fit" with a group of 150 people? I think the same could be said for a chapter that large saying a particular PNM "doesn't fit."

carnation 03-05-2012 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2130141)
I think the same could be said for a chapter that large saying a particular PNM "doesn't fit."

That's why I get angry about women telling PNMs, especially at large schools, "you'll end up where you're meant to".:mad: No doubt there are people on GC for whom that happened but I can tell you of many others for whom "the system" didn't work.

I don't have a solution for it. I just want to cry when I hear people spouting that off and watch the eager PNMs believing that there's a magic and perfect sorting hat (I wish).

KSUViolet06 03-05-2012 01:16 PM

I can buy the "she doesn't fit" thing if your chapter has like less than 50 people. Then I think chapters have a distinct personality at that point because of size.

But really, once you get past like 70, 80, 100, I just don't buy it.

I know, it's a radical thing to say that once a chapter gets past a certain size, pretty much any PNM could end up being happy there. But I think it's true. Which is why i'm a proponent of PNMs at these large chapter schools giving it a chance to work out (and same on the chapter's end with PNMs they think they don't want.) Chances are good that in a larger chapter, it will end up working out just fine.

It's really less magical than people think.


AXOrushadvisor 03-05-2012 01:41 PM

But I think "I don't fit" is code for I am better then this Chapter and should have gotten my first choice or not been dropped from my fav.

Recruitment is such a weird thing. What else do you do in life that 20 minutes of one day decides your fate going into a second day? With the exception of sports not much. So much of recruitment is shrouded in mystery and there is a lot of misinformation out there about it. I know that the Chapter I work with really doesn't understand how it works start to finish with the exception of the women who work in the back room.

I don't know if once a Chapter gets to a certain size any PNM could be happy there? If I am a conservative girl and join a Chapter that is very social it might not be a good fit for me. Yes, there may be girls I like and have fun with but my experience wouldn't match my expectations of doing more community service and sisterhood events then fraternity social activities. As an adult I might not join an organization where I don't feel like I have any thing in common with the women who are in it. I don't think there is any thing wrong with that. I think that recruitment goes wrong when these girls don't follow through to the end of the process. They get released from their favorites and bail. I see nothing wrong with getting to the end of the process and deciding it isn't right for you. I think we take exception when these girls get to the end of the process don't sign a bid card and then get on here and bitch about "being cut from every chapter"

The OP asks in the original question Should we change the way PNM's think about recruitment. Yes and No. I think you have to walk a fine line of the information you put out there. I think you have to set expectations like grades. If a Chapter wont take under a 3.0 then that needs to be clearly stated. If they only take blondes (JK) same thing. I'm not sure how much of the process they need to know other then ALL recruitments are competitive. There are only a limited amount of spots available for PNM's. I think the conversation has to be if you want to be Greek follow the process to the end and then make a decision.

28StGreek 03-05-2012 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor (Post 2130157)

The OP asks in the original question Should we change the way PNM's think about recruitment. Yes and No. I think you have to walk a fine line of the information you put out there.

So its pretty much agreed more transparency is required, but its knowing not to breach member selection, as well as scaring the PNMs into never taking part, and pleasing the PC police.

So in practicality everything stays the same but hope that PNMs check out GC with all the advice we have to offer and hope they utilize some common sense! ;)

melindawarren 03-05-2012 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2130141)

That's why the phrase "I don't feel like I fit" rubs me the wrong way. Especially when a PNM is at a school where the chapters are averaging over 150 women. How does one "not fit" with a group of 150 people? I think the same could be said for a chapter that large saying a particular PNM "doesn't fit."

I mean, I can think of a few explanations:

1. You're a new freshman, homesick as it gets and you don't put yourself out there to bond with the girls. Of course you don't fit! You're crying in your dorm room all the time.

2. You're a new freshman and you legitimately don't fit in at your school. This happens, and it may be joining the sorority that makes you realize that you do have a place--or that reinforces your discomfort.

3. You're a little bit older and joined for social reasons, but you realize that you don't want to be part of the insanity of pledging and you don't fit with the group's expectations for a new member.

4. There are people you'd bond with, if you ever actually met them. It can be hard in big chapters to find someone you click with. Or maybe someone rubbed you the wrong way early on and you think they're all like that.

All problems that can be fixed, but ideas why a girl might not fit.

KSUViolet06 03-05-2012 03:25 PM

Oh, I know why some people might feel that way. I just don't think you'll NEVER fit because of those issues.

My point was that recruitment is less of a "magical we just clicked" thing than people make it out to be.

LAblondeGPhi 03-05-2012 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2130194)
Oh, I know why some people might feel that way. I just don't think you'll NEVER fit because of those issues.

My point was that recruitment is less of a "magical we just clicked" thing than people make it out to be.

But we tell PNMs to look for connection and chose chapters based on where they feel most comfortable. We want them to pick a chapter that they feel a connection with rather than a chapter that is a good fit on paper, right? We say things like "where would you feel most comfortable lounging in your pajamas and without any makeup on".

We have a tendency to tell PNMs BOTH that they could be happy in almost any house, AND to follow their heart. I think the go-where-you-feel-comfortable thing is an attempt to counter tent talk and PNMs selecting chapters based on reputation.

33girl 03-06-2012 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor (Post 2130157)
I don't know if once a Chapter gets to a certain size any PNM could be happy there? If I am a conservative girl and join a Chapter that is very social it might not be a good fit for me. Yes, there may be girls I like and have fun with but my experience wouldn't match my expectations of doing more community service and sisterhood events then fraternity social activities.

I was going to say something similar. A post on here (now deleted) talked about how at a certain large school, your social and extracurricular opportunities WERE greatly differing depending on which chapter you joined. If you are only joining for sisterhood and could care less about those things, it might not matter. If a big part of joining for you is those things, then no, you won't "fit." It has nothing to do with whether or not you like the girls. And we are talking a big chunk of change here for you to participate in something that you don't feel is giving you all it should.

melindawarren 03-06-2012 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2130194)
Oh, I know why some people might feel that way. I just don't think you'll NEVER fit because of those issues.

My point was that recruitment is less of a "magical we just clicked" thing than people make it out to be.

Very true. At the same time, speaking as an 18-year-old on behalf of 18-21 year olds, it's hard to remember that there's going to be sorority life beyond the semester or school year. It's hard to mentally configure the concept of a "lifelong" situation (or even one that will last through all of college!). I think a lot of girls want to fit in and they want to fit in now. Especially for freshman living away from home and family/friends--they want to replace the friends they don't see anymore quickly and easily. Of course, in that, they forget that it took years to get to the point where you and your best friend could spend hours on skype, watching each other study for midterms in completely separate states.

But I feel that tenacity and active participation can overcome a lot of non-fit issues. 33's right, though. It totally depends on what led you to join in the first place.

KSUViolet06 03-06-2012 12:52 PM

^^ I agree, which is why we spend a lot of time on GC trying to get 18 yr olds to stick it out when they're all "Bid day was 2 weeks ago and I want to drop out because no one likes me." We have the benefit of knowing that those best friendships and the people you can't live without didn't just form overnight.

DubaiSis 03-06-2012 12:56 PM

Every once in a while we do see a rush thread that says something along the lines of "these girls looked way too put together for me." True, that's not common, but some girls honestly don't want 200 beauty queens for best friends. There are issues of fit and it would be awesome if the girls going through rush could appreciate the similarities and differences of the chapters without making those differences better or worse. But that's not going to happen, so...

melindawarren 03-06-2012 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2130392)
^^ I agree, which is why we spend a lot of time on GC trying to get 18 yr olds to stick it out when they're all "Bid day was 2 weeks ago and I want to drop out because no one likes me." We have the benefit of knowing that those best friendships and the people you can't live without didn't just form overnight.

And that's why I love GC. :)

Also agree with DubaiSis. That goes back to the "could you see yourself with no makeup sitting in the kitchen in your pajamas looking like you haven't slept in a week because you have six midterms in two weeks?" argument.

AOII Angel 03-06-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 28StGreek (Post 2130033)
I know what you are saying. But on that all important first day(s) of IWT the Chapters have all the power. The situation does get more mutual towards pref.

The three mid performing chapters than PNM Polly goes back to was because she had already been cut by the 'top' chapters.

I know tiers is a topic that is taboo on GC, but lets face it at some schools PNM Polly is only hoping for 3-4 chapters when recruitment begins. And I am well aware that "every school has tiers", but every school has football teams too, and some are just in a different league.

I think in some situations its can be a disservice to PNM Polly to make the process sounds egalitarian. Otherwise we'd never get all those: "Why didn't I get a bid' stories. The majority of them didn't get a bid because they didn't stay the course and go back to the parties they had, and they dropped out of recruitment because they were cut by the chapters they wanted, thus shows the power structure between the Chapter and PNM on Day 1.

I don't mean to sound condescending its just I know my verbosity has a habit of making myself poorly understood. I totally apologize for that happening!

NB: Probably the most common comment i get back from professors: "Please rewrite this paragraph, I don't understand what you are trying to say"

Not everyone can join the top three groups. Like I said earlier, there can only be true mutual selection when there is no quota. You are, of course, assuming that everyone wants the top three groups and could never go into recruitment wanting anyone else, which is far from the truth. You also are assuming that PNMs come into recruitment with decisions fully made and only change them because they are released. This is also not true. If you're using your own experience during recruitment as the basis of your views or the stories on GC, they are not the norm.

ellebud 03-06-2012 09:08 PM

I think that so much depends on the individual. The Reluctant One was/is very secure. She truly didn't care about the tiers. She ranked several top houses below a top three house

BUT there are those young women (one of whom I wrote about in my story so many years ago) for whom it is top tier or out. I think that it would be very interesting to see statistics on who drops out of recruitment and when....at the end...after a top 3 non invitation...or do the pnms "stick it out"?

I wish that it could/should be stressed that you will have a social life. You will make friends...whatever house you join or don't join. A friend of one of my kids makes a fabulous presentation. She's gorgeous. She dresses amazingly well. She is from a well placed family. And for an hour she can hold it together: she is the biggest dork in the world.

She is a smart dork. She pledged a "low tier" house. Her rho chi was baffled. The girl knew herself.

A few years ago a girl named...Rebelcheer something wrote...something like "isn't this about what I want?" I wanted to write "And how does it feel to want?"


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