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-   -   Should we change the way PNMs think of Recruitment? (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=125239)

Old_Row 03-04-2012 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynter (Post 2129936)
At my school recruitment was SUPER competitive

Your school isn't SUPER competitive, but this illustrates one of the perception problems the NPC is dealing with here. 100% mutual selection is a myth. At every school, even at the most laid back, there are certain chapters and PNMs who are always in a position to get what they want and things will be competitive when it comes to getting those chapters and PNMs. It's just like real life, but we're afraid to officially admit it.

carnation 03-04-2012 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynter (Post 2129947)
You know what you're probably right, but this is what I heard from girls in a certain chapter. Maybe because they didn't cut said girl earlier in the process or something?

The only way they might have to bid someone is if they put her on their bid list. Otherwise, no.

AOII Angel 03-04-2012 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2129939)
Now wait. There is no way in H__ that a chapter can be forced to take girls they don't want.

That's not what we're saying. Chapters, just like PNMs may keep getting those same names back when their list is run through that they don't necessarily want. The chapters can completely release girls, even if it means they are not maximizing their options, just like PNMs can refuse to attend parties and not maximize their options, but there are consequences to these options. Some chapters don't choose to take those chances just like many PNMs don't take that chance.

AOII Angel 03-04-2012 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen (Post 2129955)
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but a sorority doesn't HAVE to invite back the amount that RFM recommends, correct? So if a sorority wants to drop someone and be below the suggested number of invites back, they are free to do so?

Yes, they are free to drop as many as they like, but they may not be eligible for QAs. This happened to a chapter I worked with at Towson. Same rules as applied to PNMs that did not maximize their options.

Old_Row 03-04-2012 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen (Post 2129955)
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but a sorority doesn't HAVE to invite back the amount that RFM recommends, correct? So if a sorority wants to drop someone and be below the suggested number of invites back, they are free to do so?

That is true but there are other forces and consequences at work that can effectively prevent a chapter from doing it.

28StGreek 03-04-2012 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2129939)
Now wait. There is no way in H__ that a chapter can be forced to take girls they don't want.

Exactly my point this is the crux that shows ultimately its the chapter that has the power to choose which PNMs they want, and if a PNM matches then its mutual selection.

Chapters are the only ones who can give out a bid. Therefore they're the ones who have a much greater factor in the selection process.

I know there are the ends of the bell curve where a everybody's rush crush with more invites than parties available has all the power to choose. I know of one girl who had two older sisters who were chapter alumna, including one who was the President, yet she preffed at a different house because she just connected with those girls better.

And then on the GLO side, at the lower end of the spectrum to put it bluntly they list as many girls as they hope to get to try and meet quota. I know that isn't how it happens everywhere, but it is a harsh truth at some chapters.

Splash 03-04-2012 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi (Post 2129876)
Conversely, how many PNMs truly get a bid to the chapter they ranked last every single day? I would say that's pretty unusual. The great majority of PNMs will have some say throughout their recruitment as far as which chapters they return to.

Others might think differently, but I think on campuses with struggling chapters, many women rank these chapters last (try to drop) every day, and the amount of girls that get their last choice that they ranked last every day is about quota.

AOII Angel 03-04-2012 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 28StGreek (Post 2129960)
Exactly my point this is the crux that shows ultimately its the chapter that has the power to choose which PNMs they want, and if a PNM matches then its mutual selection.

Chapters are the only ones who can give out a bid. Therefore they're the ones who have a much greater factor in the selection process.

I know there are the ends of the bell curve where a everybody's rush crush with more invites than parties available has all the power to choose. I know of one girl who had two older sisters who were chapter alumna, including one who was the President, yet she preffed at a different house because she just connected with those girls better.

And then on the GLO side, at the lower end of the spectrum to put it bluntly they list as many girls as they hope to get to try and meet quota. I know that isn't how it happens everywhere, but it is a harsh truth at some chapters.

You don't have to be at the ends of the bell curve to have power as a PNM. Girls in the middle get to choose as well. Say PNM Polly goes back to three mid performing chapters and is well liked by all three. She is very happy with them all. This is an extremely common occurrence since in bell curves, this is the middle hump. PNM Polly has her choice of the three chapters. They all rank Polly very high, on their first bid lists in fact. In this case, Polly gets all the power, since she can choose where she goes. Whatever she ranks #1 will be her new sorority even if #2 or 3 would fit her better or would kill to have her. You are just blinded by the worst case scenarios.

28StGreek 03-05-2012 12:00 AM

I know what you are saying. But on that all important first day(s) of IWT the Chapters have all the power. The situation does get more mutual towards pref.

The three mid performing chapters than PNM Polly goes back to was because she had already been cut by the 'top' chapters.

I know tiers is a topic that is taboo on GC, but lets face it at some schools PNM Polly is only hoping for 3-4 chapters when recruitment begins. And I am well aware that "every school has tiers", but every school has football teams too, and some are just in a different league.

I think in some situations its can be a disservice to PNM Polly to make the process sounds egalitarian. Otherwise we'd never get all those: "Why didn't I get a bid' stories. The majority of them didn't get a bid because they didn't stay the course and go back to the parties they had, and they dropped out of recruitment because they were cut by the chapters they wanted, thus shows the power structure between the Chapter and PNM on Day 1.

I don't mean to sound condescending its just I know my verbosity has a habit of making myself poorly understood. I totally apologize for that happening!

NB: Probably the most common comment i get back from professors: "Please rewrite this paragraph, I don't understand what you are trying to say"

33girl 03-05-2012 12:23 AM

The women who are saying "we HAD to give skanky stella a bid"? That dictate is coming down from their hq. Hq can tell you who (or more precisely, how many) to bid under threat of discipline. Panhel can not.

ElieM 03-05-2012 12:24 AM

Wasn't there some discussion recently about the way PNMs in their stories were no longer "cutting" chapters, but doing something else like "ranking", which showed that some Panhels were getting the message across that when a PNM ranks the chapters after the parties, there was a chance that the lower ranked ones would appear on their next invite list.

I only remember because the difference in terminology (from 'I cut x chapter' to 'I ranked? x chapter') was quite clear, but I can't remember which stories they were

eta: KSUViolet bumped the thread I was thinking about. Having the PNMs rank "back-ups" or "alternates" instead of cutting could help some of the misconceptions about rush if I understand correctly

DeltaBetaBaby 03-05-2012 01:00 AM

I also wonder if it hurts the weaker chapters that the top X number are all #1, and then the "back-ups" are ranked. Basically, the PNM's have to think about which chapters they like the least, but not which chapters they like the best. It's subtle, but I think that it makes PNM's really focus on the bad.

AUAZD2001 03-05-2012 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElieM (Post 2130038)
eta: KSUViolet bumped the thread I was thinking about. Having the PNMs rank "back-ups" or "alternates" instead of cutting could help some of the misconceptions about rush if I understand correctly

This seems a lot like how high school students apply so multiple colleges ranging from their dream campus to "safety schools." I have a feeling a HIGH percentage (95%+?) of students who don't get accepted to their first (or even second or third) choice still go on to college SOMEWHERE and have a pretty great experience.

DubaiSis 03-05-2012 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynter (Post 2129936)
More or less ... the GLOs choose you and you either go along with it and enjoy or drop out.

This. It really isn't mutual selection because you have to be on the sorority's list to start with. Only if she's on every list does the rushee have a say. And to the extent that she's off more lists, she has less say. Even the least performing chapters STILL get to choose who they invite back and if they're only inviting back girls who don't want them there are going to be girls who weren't given the opportunity to mutually select them.

There are schools where there is a struggling chapter, but it's still a very competitive campus where girls get cut out of the process completely after round 1 or 2. That means that struggling chapter still had the upper hand in deciding they didn't want a girl who probably would have accepted them, even though it would be her last choice. That is not mutual.

... and then I went off on a tangent about selection and crazy ways of doing it and decided to self-edit. You're welcome.

DeltaBetaBaby 03-05-2012 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubaiSis (Post 2130059)
There are schools where there is a struggling chapter, but it's still a very competitive campus where girls get cut out of the process completely after round 1 or 2.

This is very rare. Save IU, there are very few schools where any significant number of women get dropped completely.


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