PNMs, repeat after me: nothing ever, ever guarantees a bid.

We should hang out a shingle and charge for all this advice. People don't value (acknowledge) things they receive for free,

Maybe eventually the complexion of the school will change and that might be the case, but nothing has happened in the short time since WVU's joined the Big XII. (Are they Big XIII now?) If you can get them, that's great, but they are not a mandatory for a successful rush.

But as we saw on another thread, the inverse is NOT true. If the sororities do not provide an address, it does not necessarily mean you don't need recs.

Too true!!

Because the offices of Greek life at some schools are much too focused on making students and their parents feel warm and fluffy and wanted than on helping the students have successful recruitments.

Quick Question:

I contacted my local alumnae group back in early June (I went to their meeting and gave them copies of my resume and picture for each of the sororities that I have on campus). However, I have only been contacted by a couple of ladies that have received my information from the organization. Is it safe to say that I also have recommendations from other ladies that just simply had all the information they needed and didn't need to contact me or should I be worried? I'm assuming there's no way to check and see if someone has actually submitted a recommendation for you is there?

IF that's the only way you attempted to get recommendations, you're up the proverbial creek. You could try to find out which groups followed thru and sent them but if you haven't done anything towards getting the others, it's going to be tough

Titchou,

I also directly contacted a few women by email towards the beginning of June as well and a couple of women that I knew personally. However, the amount of responses I got and women that I personally knew did not nearly cover all the sororities (17) and I strove for at least one per sorority, so thats why I went through my local alumnae group.

She may have just been ignorant.

Great analogy HQWest. If you want a job at a certain firm and a current or past employee gives you a referral, it can increase your chances of being hired. Granted, that doesn't guarantee you'll get the job, but it's better than sending your resume, blindly, to that company. Would you rather have an employee walk your resume to the hiring manager or you emailing your resume through an internet job website?

Since this thread is now 20 pages about recs/referral letters, let me ask one (crazy) question:
Does anyone know of ANY college, university or GLO where it would be a DISADVANTAGE to HAVE a rec?
(I'd be really fascinated if there is & why.)

If there is NO school or group that is adverse to recommendations, the answer is simple:
GET RECS, get recs, get recs, get recs.

Occasionally I hear of specific chapters that don't like to get recs or ignore them. Usually it's when they feel the alumnae are telling them what to do. But sometimes it's an alumna whose favorite PNM wasn't pledged.

i am going to be rushing at ole miss and still need a few more rec letters from pi beta phi or kappa delta and kappa kappa gamma if anyone can help me with this please let me know

Posted in the Ole Miss thread:
Typically, asking for recs from strangers on the internet is not the best way to go and is often not appreciated by posters here. Just a heads up. Try asking the women who have already written you recs. The social might also help you.

I have a question about recs. I'm rushing at SMU in the spring and need recs, and the NPC alumnae group in my area is not active anymore. The only other one near me won't let you register unless you have a zipcode of that city (Dallas), so I can't register. I've tried asking around but I only have a rec for one house, and all the other people I know that were in NPC sororities were in sororities that we do not have in campus. Does anyone know what I can do? Thank you.

^^^If you are near Dallas then you just need to keep asking around. You absolutely can not spit in the North Texas area and not hit a sorority alumna. When you find one, ask her if she knows others.

The chapters at SMU all have very strong ties in Texas. There are ample alumnae of those chapters that I assure you that you know one of each. Keep asking around- friends' moms, church, neighborhood, high school teachers, your parents' friends, etc. Go back and ask the alums of chapters not at SMU if they have friends that are alumnae of the groups there.

Good luck. It may take some work, but this is very, very, doable.

Ask the people who were members of the groups not on campus if they know people in the ones on campus. Most of us know a lot of other Greek women....

Don't stress over getting recs. My daughter went through rush Fall 2012 at the University of Texas. We stressed out all Summer putting packets together and trying to get recs for all sororities. She had a very successful rush (as a sophomore - so don't stress about not being a Freshman either!). She was invited back to houses that she did not have recs for. I think a key element that gets overlooked during rush is having conversation skills ... make sure you brush up on those - be able to talk about all subjects and make conversation. Don't sit in silence. Some of the sorority girls that will be talking to you are sophomores and this will be their first experience being on the other side of rush, so they are nervous as well, so you will stand out if you are able to keep the conversation going and put others at ease. I am not saying not to get recs, but don't think you will get cut if you don't have them. Keep an open mind when going through rush. Don't have your heart set on one sorority from the beginning, wait and see where you make a connection. My daughter had friends that went through rush at Texas A&M, Michigan State and SMU - these girls had no recs going into rush and all had a successful rush and pledged wonderful houses. In addition, I have nieces in sororities at the University of Colorado and the University of Missouri and they have both said rec letters are not something to stress about getting.

While you've said good general advice for recruitment (keep an open mind, etc.), I would have to disagree with your advice to not "stress about getting recs." It's not the end of the word if a PNM doesn't get recs for every single house, but at some schools, if the sorority doesn't know who you are before recruitment and you don't happen to be Ms. Teen Tri-State Area, valedictorian, and Nobel Prize-winning common-cold-cure-finder, you're more likely to get cut even if you have a great conversation. Recs are the biggest advantage you can get before going into recruitment, aside from having a strong connection with active chapter members.

No, they're not always easy to get, but they're not impossible. It's worth the effort. While your daughter and her friends may have had great rushes without them, they may have been exceptional PNMs, while the average PNM will appear to be...well...average to the other houses, especially the most popular ones during rush. A Rec letter may be the thing that keeps a wonderful girl who isn't an outstanding PNM from slipping through the cracks.

Summary: There is no reason to not try your best to get recs.

This is simply horrible advice. The end.

Agree
 

I agree with you Georgia Greek. Get as many recs as you can but don't go into rush thinking you will be cut if you don't have a rec. Before my daughter went through rush, we read all of the information and blogs and went through Greek Chat threads with a fine tooth comb and it was very overwhelming. My daughter rushed as a sophomore and in reading all of the recruitment threads we thought her chances were slim at getting a bid, so we contacted everyone we knew that had ever been in a sorority and got as many recs as we could, however, we did not get recs for every sorority. She had a full party schedule throughout rush and on pref night, one of her final 3 parties was a house that she had not received a rec for. Bottom line do what you can to obtain recs but don't think you will be cut by a house if you don't have a rec ... I have seen that on here so many times - "you won't make it to the second round if you don't have a rec" and that is simply not true.

Horrible, horrible advice.

You don't know that your daughter did not receive a rec by the end of round one. Please don't lead PNMs to believe this. You were not a part of membership selection during your daughter's recruitment, so really...you have no authority saying what you just said.

You need to sit down and stop dispensing advice that will crater a PNM's recruitment. You are the mother of a new member. You did not sit in membership selection. Your daughter has not even done so. You have no idea what recs she did or did not have. Unless you are there when someone hits the submit button or drops the paperwork in a mailbox, you simply do not know. Many PNMs have recs they don't know about. Many PNMs think they have recs but the member never sends them. The fact that your daughter received a bid in no way makes you an expert in Texas recruitment or any other.

Future PNMs, please disregard this person's advice. It could cost you a chance of getting a bid.

The thing is, you SHOULD be stressing out about it, in April or so. By the time you get to August/September, it's time to let it go because it's too late. Girls do get bids without recs, but why kneecap yourself? The time spent finding and getting to know alumnae members is valuable for a variety of reasons, and then you have that box checked. A chapter may like you, but your lack of recommendations might drop you lower on their list. There have been a million discussions here about the difference between being CUT and just not making it high enough on the list to get a return invitation. Do you really want that lack of recommendation to possibly put you as #105 on their invitation list when they only get to #100?

I personally think the value of recommendations is not equal to the effort expended on both sides and I wish recommendations went back to the days when they were only sent by alumnae who actually personally knew the rushees. But those days are past, and I would recommend to any rushee to play the game fully. And that means getting recs (even 2-3 at some schools) for each chapter. And do it early so that when rush time comes around, you can focus on more important issues.

First of all LadyLonghorn, I am not telling girls to not get recs. I am simply saying that if you do not know someone in a particular sorority and you are unable to obtain a rec then do not stress out about it. I have never declared that I am an expert at recruitment, but I did share factual information about my daughter's recruitment at UT and the recruitment of a few others at SMU, Texas A&M and Michigan State. I know for a fact that my daughter did not receive a rec letter for a particular house - we did not know anyone that had ever been a member of that sorority, so we did not pursue a rec letter. This was one of three houses she went to for prefs. I agree with DubaiSis and think rec letters should come from people that actually know the pnm. I think it is crazy that rec letters are written off of resumes that the pnm sends to complete strangers. As an alumna, I would not want to write a rec letter for someone that I personally did not know.

No, you don't.

Werd.

What do you expect fom someone who also has the audacity to come to a Greek message board and tells us how horrible the rec system is and how alumnae should feel about writing info only recs?

I can't count the number of times I've told a PNM we already had a form on her! Strong alum groups work their high schools and send in forms on the women without their knowledge. It goes on everywhere. You cannot guarantee that there was no form on your daughter or any of her friends. If a group requires one, they'll get it. One way or another - and without your knowledge.

^^^^^^ ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!

Please, please, Armywife, please believe us when we tell you this!

And I have written those rec letters from resumes and a conversation with the PNM that you dislike so much. I am not crazy about them either. I would much rather know the young lady personally, but sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do to help a PNM and trust your gut.

(coming from a school where we wouldn't have even known what to do with a rec so I might be totally off base)

Isn't it also that at these SWYAPNR a rec is often used as a box to check, not necessarily "an alumna says this PNM is a nice girl BID HER IMMEDIATELY"? Not only are you trusting your gut, but you've got however many actives also evaluating her membership potential, so rec ≠ bid by any means. From reading here it seems like recs indicate mostly that a PNM has her stuff together enough to plan this in advance and get it done, then followed by if she has any strong connection to the sorority, or specifically an alumna from that chapter, etc. I hope this makes sense, I need to go to bed! Haha

Additionally, I feel like the schools where a rec would be unusual and give a PNM any sort of special boost are not the schools where PNMs will be hitting up strangers for recs anyway.

^This is such good advice -- I hope PNMs listen. And this:


"...I would recommend to any rushee to play the game fully."


I was thinking the same -- if one choses to play this game, then do everything possible to win. Assembling rec/resume packets and locating multiple alums of multiple chapters does take a considerable amount of time and effort, however, the first time through formal recruitment is also the PNM's best opportunity. Considering the magnitude of a stressful recruitment week and the potential for heartbreak, I would hate to wonder, in retrospect, if a dozen more phone calls might have opened a door that closed after the first or second round of parties.


I wouldn't want to depend solely on conversational skills to pull me through the chaos of a crowded 20-minute party. Those conditions are not entirely under the control of the PNM. What arrives on paper, in advance, is (for the most part).


If a rec for every house just cannot be found, then proceed with no regrets. It is true that girls have even pledged houses where they assumed they had no rec -- but I wouldn't minimize the importance of recs -- ever -- if these can possibly be located.


Question for the RFM experts: Would it be accurate to assume that the chapters forced to release more girls (and extend fewer invites) would also be more likely to release those without recs (and earlier in the process)?

I think that would fall into member selection and not RFM. But I think it is logical to think that every sorority has some sort of system of ranking girls one against the others, and if you are missing an element of optional "points" you are going to have a better chance of falling lower on the list. The higher performing chapters have to cut more girls and with the quality of girls going through rush, I think it's got to be a sad but truth that some girls will get cut simply by not having gotten a rec. Does the chapter like it? I'm sure they don't, but they have to find SOME reason to make cuts and there just aren't that many girls who seriously are not XYZ material. At least the rec represents a certain amount of commitment a girl put into the process.

Recs play a more important role. They provide information about a PNM much earlier than when the recruitment registrations come in. The sooner chapters can get to know a PNM before recruitment, the better her chances of getting a second look. It also gives chapters the opportunity to pair the PNM with the best sister for her in that round, one who will have a lot in common with her and make a good impression as well as be able to have a conversation about familiar things and common interests that should make the PNM a little more relaxed. This is especially important in highly competitive recruitments where the first round is only a few minutes long and the strongest chapters may need to cut half the PNM pool after the first round.

Yes, thanks, I guess that would fall more to member selection. And I agree with your logic.

A rec certainly doesn't equal a bid, but at some schools (speaking for my own school, anyway), it may very well make the difference in receiving an invitation to the next round.

Most rec forms include info regarding whether or not the alum personally knows the girl, her family, and for how long, etc. Though even if the rec is an "info only" type sent by an alum who does not personally know the PNM, it is still advantageous to have this info arrive in advance of rush.

True - and those of us who write a lot of recs know "how" to write one - if you get my drift.

(To everyone that responded) ah okay, thank you! I can't even wrap my head around how much work it must take to sort out these thousands of recs and actually make sense of them! Props to all the women involved.

My org's form specifically asks questions to this effect, so I'd bet others do as well.

I've also seen examples where Annie Active's rush crush doesn't have a Rec and so Annie scrambles to get her one. Annie calls alumnae she knows, asks other actives from the PNM's hometown if they know alumnae who might know the PNM, searches through the alumnae directory in that hometown, etc. I doubt those PNMs ever knew they suddenly had a Rec submitted on their behalf.

An active who gets a rec for a PNM may also not tell a PNM this during recruitment because they don't want to 1. make them feel bad/imply they aren't wanted just for not having one and/or 2. make them think they will be guaranteed a spot in the house because an active likes them enough to find a rec. Active Annie might not have that much say in it, or PNM might end up too low on the bid list to be matched to XYZ, etc.