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-   -   Schools where you absolutely positively need recs (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=112718)

AOT767 05-09-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socalparent (Post 2144806)
My daughter and I recently visited OSU. Our tour guide was in a sorority so we asked about recruitment and specifically letters of rec. She said they weren't necessary but then I thought to double check here. I don't want to say the young lady didn't know but I'd rather err on the side of caution and get the recs.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, as my school truly does not require them (and probably wouldn't know what to do with one if we got it!), but I feel like a lot of schools say recs aren't required, when in reality it's kind of hard to get through the first round without them. This may not be true of OSU, I have no idea about them specifically, but this is the general feeling I've gotten by reading through threads about bigger schools.

33girl 05-09-2012 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOT767 (Post 2144808)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, as my school truly does not require them (and probably wouldn't know what to do with one if we got it!), but I feel like a lot of schools say recs aren't required, when in reality it's kind of hard to get through the first round without them. This may not be true of OSU, I have no idea about them specifically, but this is the general feeling I've gotten by reading through threads about bigger schools.

Yes.

Basically, Panhellenic is its own entity, and formal rush is run by Panhellenic. They can't come out and say "you need recs to get past round 1" because Panhellenic doesn't know the specific membership selection policies of its member groups. It's true that you do not need recs at all to PARTICIPATE in rush.

And sororities don't want to put on their web pages "you can't pledge without a rec" because at some schools, that would hurt the number of interested women considerably. They also don't want anyone to misunderstand and think rec = guaranteed bid.

DeltaBetaBaby 05-09-2012 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2144809)
Yes.

Basically, Panhellenic is its own entity, and formal rush is run by Panhellenic. They can't come out and say "you need recs to get past round 1" because Panhellenic doesn't know the specific membership selection policies of its member groups. It's true that you do not need recs at all to PARTICIPATE in rush.

And sororities don't want to put on their web pages "you can't pledge without a rec" because at some schools, that would hurt the number of interested women considerably. They also don't want anyone to misunderstand and think rec = guaranteed bid.

Further, if you are Suzy Awesome from the city with 8,000 XYZ alumnae, XYZ will find you a rec. It's just that the vast, vast, vast majority of PNMS are not Suzy Awesome, even if they think they are.

Socalparent 05-09-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2144851)
Further, if you are Suzy Awesome from the city with 8,000 XYZ alumnae, XYZ will find you a rec. It's just that the vast, vast, vast majority of PNMS are not Suzy Awesome, even if they think they are.

My PNM is Suzy sometimes Awesome. Glad we're in an area where there are alumnae left and right. And glad I found this site so I could look around and try to educate myself.

irishpipes 05-10-2012 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socalparent (Post 2144806)
My daughter and I recently visited OSU. Our tour guide was in a sorority so we asked about recruitment and specifically letters of rec. She said they weren't necessary but then I thought to double check here. I don't want to say the young lady didn't know but I'd rather err on the side of caution and get the recs.

Certain chapters at OSU most definitely require recs.

SWTXBelle 05-10-2012 11:00 AM

Certain sororities require recs - period. I am sometimes surprised when a member of a sorority which requires recs states "My chapter didn't get recs/didn't require them." In those cases, it was the alumnae working behind the scenes who probably secured the necessary recomendations. I think some sororities may need to educate their members a little more on the necessity of recs.

Bottom line - always get a rec.

Socalparent 05-10-2012 05:27 PM

I was reading the Ok State 2012 Recruitment Guide for dates, etc. so I can schedule flights. I found this regarding recs:

"Recommendations may be considered in the membership selection process. The Panhellenic Council highly suggests that each PNM have a recommendation letter for each of our twelve chapters; however, this is not required. The Panhellenic Council recommends you contact your local Alumnae Panhellenic Association or any sorority alumna you know to request a letter of recommendation for any of our 12 chapters."


DeltaBetaBaby 05-10-2012 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 2144994)
Certain sororities require recs - period. I am sometimes surprised when a member of a sorority which requires recs states "My chapter didn't get recs/didn't require them." In those cases, it was the alumnae working behind the scenes who probably secured the necessary recomendations. I think some sororities may need to educate their members a little more on the necessity of recs.

Bottom line - always get a rec.

I would guess that, in many chapters, unless you are the president or the recruitment chair, or another role closely involved with MS, you have no idea what recs do/don't do behind the scenes.

IndianaSigKap 05-10-2012 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2145086)
I would guess that, in many chapters, unless you are the president or the recruitment chair, or another role closely involved with MS, you have no idea what recs do/don't do behind the scenes.

This ^

Sciencewoman 05-10-2012 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2145086)
I would guess that, in many chapters, unless you are the president or the recruitment chair, or another role closely involved with MS, you have no idea what recs do/don't do behind the scenes.

Without treading into membership selection territory, I am confused by this and find myself in need of enlightenment, especially since I have a HS senior daughter that I'm currently helping get recs. for a "good to have them" southern school. I live in "rec desert" land where no one has them. I don't think any of the sororities on the campus where I advise expects or requires them. If only the president or recruitment/membership chair knows what they say or who has them, what's the purpose? It seems that many of the sororities we're being asked to provide rec. info. for ask for topics of conversation at recruitment, what type of member would be a good match during recruitment, etc. It seems like those sororities are using the recs. for information that would definitely be shared with the chapter, not just during selection procedures, but to more effectively recruit the PNMs.

This is probably an equally ignorant question, but I am sincerely curious. If someone who is fabulous doesn't have a rec., and someone behind the scenes has to secure one because it's mandated by XYZ sorority, what is the value of a rec. secured by an assisting XYZ alum/advisor who doesn't know the PNM, from someone from her hometown (?) who doesn't know the PNM well, either?

33girl 05-10-2012 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman (Post 2145101)
Without treading into membership selection territory, I am confused by this and find myself in need of enlightenment, especially since I have a HS senior daughter that I'm currently helping get recs. for a "good to have them" southern school. I live in "rec desert" land where no one has them. I don't think any of the sororities on the campus where I advise expects or requires them. If only the president or recruitment/membership chair knows what they say or who has them, what's the purpose? It seems that many of the sororities we're being asked to provide rec. info. for ask for topics of conversation at recruitment, what type of member would be a good match during recruitment, etc. It seems like those sororities are using the recs. for information that would definitely be shared with the chapter, not just during selection procedures, but to more effectively recruit the PNMs.

This is probably an equally ignorant question, but I am sincerely curious. If someone who is fabulous doesn't have a rec., and someone behind the scenes has to secure one because it's mandated by XYZ sorority, what is the value of a rec. secured by an assisting XYZ alum/advisor who doesn't know the PNM, from someone from her hometown (?) who doesn't know the PNM well, either?

In answer to the bolded, I thought that too, until I read on here that some of the sororities on my campus (and similar campi) have national policies that say you must have a rec to be pledged. My guess is that the sorority found it in their best interests to make it a national policy, for one reason or another - even if the woman who gives the rec doesn't know the rushee. It seems pointless, but I am guessing that if the sorority has found this policy effective for the MAJORITY of their chapters, they'll keep it in.

SWTXBelle 05-10-2012 07:31 PM

Not to mention the policy was probably written years ago - when fewer women went through recruitment and would be more likely to have an alumna write a personal rec.

The answer to the question of the value of the rec - some are more valuable than others. Also, bear in mind that if, for example, a girl from Katy were to go through recruitment without recs all the alumna in charge of recruitment would have to do is call the Katy chapter to get someone from the area who either 1.) knows her or 2.) can find someone who does.

Titchou 05-10-2012 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman (Post 2145101)
This is probably an equally ignorant question, but I am sincerely curious. If someone who is fabulous doesn't have a rec., and someone behind the scenes has to secure one because it's mandated by XYZ sorority, what is the value of a rec. secured by an assisting XYZ alum/advisor who doesn't know the PNM, from someone from her hometown (?) who doesn't know the PNM well, either?

First of all, I'll say that at any competitive SEC school, odds are you won't get invited back without a rec and so they'll never know if you are fabulous.
IF you do manage to get invited back, you can be SURE that the back room folks are working the phones about you. Honest. I've gotten many a call late at night about a PNM. For those who haven't lived this, they really don't understand. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that it is. The south is very old school, small town. Even if you're from Dallas or Atlanta. We want to know who your daddy is, etc...and we'll find out....one way or another if it means enough to us.

DeltaBetaBaby 05-10-2012 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman (Post 2145101)
Without treading into membership selection territory, I am confused by this and find myself in need of enlightenment, especially since I have a HS senior daughter that I'm currently helping get recs. for a "good to have them" southern school. I live in "rec desert" land where no one has them. I don't think any of the sororities on the campus where I advise expects or requires them. If only the president or recruitment/membership chair knows what they say or who has them, what's the purpose?

I said the role they play "behind the scenes". I'm not going to veer into MS too much, but I bet that, be it tiny school or SEC, rec-land or rec-desert, the average chapter member has NO IDEA how the final bid list is compiled, and possibly has only some idea of how the round-by-round invite lists happen.

DeltaBetaBaby 05-10-2012 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2145105)
In answer to the bolded, I thought that too, until I read on here that some of the sororities on my campus (and similar campi) have national policies that say you must have a rec to be pledged. My guess is that the sorority found it in their best interests to make it a national policy, for one reason or another - even if the woman who gives the rec doesn't know the rushee. It seems pointless, but I am guessing that if the sorority has found this policy effective for the MAJORITY of their chapters, they'll keep it in.

I thought that more orgs had this rule than didn't. Ultimately, though, any alum can write a rec for any woman. Most chapters have alums on hand during recruitment. Ergo...

(sorry, double-post)

33girl 05-10-2012 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2145145)
I thought that more orgs had this rule than didn't. Ultimately, though, any alum can write a rec for any woman. Most chapters have alums on hand during recruitment. Ergo...

(sorry, double-post)

Honestly, it's probably about 50/50...and I never saw an alum of any of our groups (except for the group that had the first chapter sister on the roll, who was a professor, as an advisor) anywhere near rush.

DeltaBetaBaby 05-10-2012 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2145168)
Honestly, it's probably about 50/50...and I never saw an alum of any of our groups (except for the group that had the first chapter sister on the roll, who was a professor, as an advisor) anywhere near rush.

Your chapter advisor wasn't involved with rush?

33girl 05-11-2012 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2145173)
Your chapter advisor wasn't involved with rush?

Good God, no. We had to have a faculty member as our advisor - regardless of whether they were Greek or not. She was nice but clueless. But as a nonmember, she obviously had zero say in membership selection (as it should be). The most she may have done was pick up the bid list, and that was hit or miss depending on her schedule - miss more than hit. This was before the days of alumnae advisory boards (or should I say before the days of the concept of an alumnae advisory board, whether or not it actually occurs).

wildcass 07-07-2012 11:42 PM

I'm at an SEC school and we've never discussed recs. Makes me wonder which chapters do and which chapters don't? Definitely not 100% necessary though or I wouldn't have gotten a bid.

KSUViolet06 07-07-2012 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildcass (Post 2157326)
I'm at an SEC school and we've never discussed recs. Makes me wonder which chapters do and which chapters don't? Definitely not 100% necessary though or I wouldn't have gotten a bid.

Where do you go to school? There are a couple like maybe UK where they're very much encouraged, but you may have a chance to get a bid without them. Definitely not so for all of them though. For example, I'd NEVER tell a PNM at say, Ole Miss that they weren't needed.

DubaiSis 07-08-2012 12:28 AM

I have wondered, and this is just speculation not any sort of background knowledge, if some chapters who have in the past considered them mandatory won't be diminishing their importance. If EVERYONE has them, then they really don't have any value except in the case where it is a GLOWING recommendation full of information the chapter wouldn't otherwise know. At these particular schools, it's been discussed ad nauseum about how the chapter has a good idea of who they want before rush even starts, that if every girl in the chapter has only 1 girl they want and are prepared to fight for, that's 3 X quota without a single girl walking through the door. Doesn't that make the hassle of processing recs kind of time consuming and superflouous?

Old_Row 07-08-2012 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubaiSis (Post 2157337)
I have wondered, and this is just speculation not any sort of background knowledge, if some chapters who have in the past considered them mandatory won't be diminishing their importance. If EVERYONE has them, then they really don't have any value except in the case where it is a GLOWING recommendation full of information the chapter wouldn't otherwise know. At these particular schools, it's been discussed ad nauseum about how the chapter has a good idea of who they want before rush even starts, that if every girl in the chapter has only 1 girl they want and are prepared to fight for, that's 3 X quota without a single girl walking through the door. Doesn't that make the hassle of processing recs kind of time consuming and superflouous?

Really the benefit to the chapter is having them early enough to get an idea of who the PNM is, pair her with the right active during first round and make a quick judgement about each PNM when you have so little time to meet them and so many to cut first round. In my experience it's not like you're literally sitting around and saying "no rec! no second round for you!" but if a PNM doesn't have have one then she isn't going to get much attention at most houses. If someone gets a no rec, or has one written by someone very important, or if there's something funny or unusual about it like her photo or the fact that she had 28 recs come in, then that might be discussed. :D

Also it isn't completely unusual for a PNM who thinks she doesn't have a rec to actually have one. Alumnae will automatically write them for hometown girls they know and like without the girl asking or knowing. She may think she got a bid without a rec but it really was there.

UGAalum94 07-08-2012 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old_Row (Post 2157346)
Really the benefit to the chapter is having them early enough to get an idea of who the PNM is, pair her with the right active during first round and make a quick judgement about each PNM when you have so little time to meet them and so many to cut first round. In my experience it's not like you're literally sitting around and saying "no rec! no second round for you!" but if a PNM doesn't have have one then she isn't going to get much attention at most houses. If someone gets a no rec, or has one written by someone very important, or if there's something funny or unusual about it like her photo or the fact that she had 28 recs come in, then that might be discussed. :D

Also it isn't completely unusual for a PNM who thinks she doesn't have a rec to actually have one. Alumnae will automatically write them for hometown girls they know and like without the girl asking or knowing. She may think she got a bid without a rec but it really was there
.

Totally agree with the bold part. Just because you didn't secure your own rec, doesn't mean you didn't have one.

Just generally on the topic of what chapter members know about recs:

My understanding of what I was supposed to know about recruitment and membership selection is tainted by my not having always paid attention when I should have at chapter and by some other unusual circumstances involved in being a spring pledge who didn't initially make grades, in addition to it having been more than 20 years ago (gulp). I know what I do now about MS in my own organization from talking to current advisors when I was trying to figure out how to write the most helpful recommendations for the chapters.

I sometimes wonder what the average chapter member at a big recruitment knows about the invite list these days, especially in the era of release figures.

One other thing: I'm afraid that hopeful PNMs and their moms take away the impression here that having a rec at a competitive recruitment does more than it can. The majority of PNM are going to have positive recs at competitive recruitment, just as they have amazing resumes and grades. A positive rec isn't probably going to set you apart that much. It just saves you from being in the pool who doesn't even have that.

carnation 07-08-2012 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 2157393)

One other thing: I'm afraid that hopeful PNMs and their moms take away the impression here that having a rec at a competitive recruitment does more than it can. The majority of PNM are going to have positive recs at competitive recruitment, just as they have amazing resumes and grades. A positive rec isn't probably going to set you apart that much. It just saves you from being in the pool who doesn't even have that.

Yes! Yes!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old_Row (Post 2157346)
"no rec! no second round for you!"

Oh nooooo, you have started something that's going to last in my family for YEARS!!!!

KSUViolet06 07-08-2012 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 2157393)

One other thing: I'm afraid that hopeful PNMs and their moms take away the impression here that having a rec at a competitive recruitment does more than it can. The majority of PNM are going to have positive recs at competitive recruitment, just as they have amazing resumes and grades. A positive rec isn't probably going to set you apart that much. It just saves you from being in the pool who doesn't even have that.



It's like applying at a Fortune 500 company.

Every applicant will have an MBA. That's standard.

It's not going to really set you apart as this amazing candidate.

It just keeps your resume in the game and out of the "NO!" pile.

SoCalGirl 07-15-2012 09:39 PM

It falls into the same issue as rec vs no rec, right? If 900 girls have recs and 700 of those have > or = 2, you better have at least 2.

DeltaBetaBaby 07-16-2012 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl (Post 2158868)
It falls into the same issue as rec vs no rec, right? If 900 girls have recs and 700 of those have > or = 2, you better have at least 2.

No, it's not that clear cut. It depends how well you know the rec writers and what they have to say. A second rec written by a random alumna you met through the local AA doesn't really mean all that much.

UGAgirl93 07-16-2012 04:06 AM

I will be going through FR in a few weeks at an SEC school (I'm sure you can tell which one). I am a legacy to one sorority there and have secured three letters of recommendation for that particular sorority (as well as recommendations for others, including other multiples). I know that you girls cannot predict the future and cannot give out information on membership selection, but without getting into the secretive stuff I was wondering if my legacy status in combination with multiple good recs would even get me noticed at that sorority. I know that at a school with a very competitive recruitment like mine, being a legacy doesn't mean a whole lot and having a rec is standard, so I'm just curious about how much it'll help. I know it can't hurt!

DeltaBetaBaby 07-16-2012 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UGAgirl93 (Post 2158945)
I will be going through FR in a few weeks at an SEC school (I'm sure you can tell which one). I am a legacy to one sorority there and have secured three letters of recommendation for that particular sorority (as well as recommendations for others, including other multiples). I know that you girls cannot predict the future and cannot give out information on membership selection, but without getting into the secretive stuff I was wondering if my legacy status in combination with multiple good recs would even get me noticed at that sorority. I know that at a school with a very competitive recruitment like mine, being a legacy doesn't mean a whole lot and having a rec is standard, so I'm just curious about how much it'll help. I know it can't hurt!

Typically, it would mean you'll get at least a courtesy invitation to the first invitational round, but if the number of legacies going through is too high (and it often is for certain groups at UGA), it may not even mean that.

UGAalum94 07-16-2012 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2158997)
Typically, it would mean you'll get at least a courtesy invitation to the first invitational round, but if the number of legacies going through is too high (and it often is for certain groups at UGA), it may not even mean that.

Wowza. Are you speculating about this maybe happening some day or have release figures gotten so tight at some chapters at UGA that we know of legacies that the chapters didn't even carry to second round?

Sometimes I think I basically understand the implications of policies, and then new stuff hits me each year.

How tight are the numbers with RFM? Let's say 1200 go through at UGA and Group A has a 100% return rate. About how many women to they get to ask to second round?

WVU101 07-18-2012 12:48 PM

Since West Virginia is now part of the Big XII, do you need a rec there?

FSUZeta 07-18-2012 12:58 PM

Changing athletic conferences has nothing to do with the competitiveness of the greek system. If you needed recs. there before, you will need them now. Maybe someone familiar with WVU will be able to tell you if you need recs.

Sciencewoman 07-23-2012 09:47 PM

Bumping for someone who asked for this information.

debann127 07-26-2012 10:44 AM

So I just went out there looking for recs and got 3 of them which I dont know if those are my top pics as Im trying to keep an open mind about all 16 of the houses at FSU. How does the recommendation help me? Does it guarantee a bid or is it just something that is used to tell a little more about me and possibly get me a bit more noticed.

irishpipes 07-26-2012 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debann127 (Post 2161879)
So I just went out there looking for recs and got 3 of them which I dont know if those are my top pics as Im trying to keep an open mind about all 16 of the houses at FSU. How does the recommendation help me? Does it guarantee a bid or is it just something that is used to tell a little more about me and possibly get me a bit more noticed.

How can you have top picks yet? Recruitment hasn't even started.

No, a rec in no way guarantees anything. Not having a rec can practically guarantee an automatic cut at some chapters. That is all you are protecting yourself from, and you are giving the chapters more information about you to use when making membership selection decisions. If you only have recs for 3 chapters, you really need to be doing everything you can to get 13 more, and quickly.

HQWest 07-26-2012 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debann127 (Post 2161879)
So I just went out there looking for recs and got 3 of them which I dont know if those are my top pics as Im trying to keep an open mind about all 16 of the houses at FSU. How does the recommendation help me? Does it guarantee a bid or is it just something that is used to tell a little more about me and possibly get me a bit more noticed.

Think about recruitment like a job interview. At a school where not many people have recs - a rec can be like a letter of introduction to someone you don't know or someone sending you to talk to someone about an unadvertised job opening that might be a good fit for you. It can help your resume get into the "must look at" pile.

At a school where everyone has recs - it can be kind of like a background check - is your resume really as good as you say? Or it can be like a really good letter of reference - she's awesome you should take her! Again, it can help your resume get into the "must look at" pile. (unless you don't make grades....)

In either case, member selection is up to the chapter, so while a really good reference can help, there very likely wouldn't be any decisions made on just that.

mizmama 08-01-2012 09:01 AM

I have a question about recommendations, and I have searched this forum but cannot find similar discussions. My daughter will be participating in recruitment at a large school with a very active greek life. When we attended orientation earlier this summer, the greek life rep responded to a specific question by saying that recs "aren't needed" and even went so far as to give the impression securing them is a waste of time. Fast forward to a couple of weeks before rush and I learn on this forum that recs are "absolutely necessary" at her school.

Fortunately she was able to secure a few in the short time we had prior to the rec letter deadline, but had we gotten accurate information at orientation, she could have gotten recs to all the chapters. Why would the greek life representative give incorrect information?

28StGreek 08-01-2012 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizmama (Post 2163242)
Why would the greek life representative give incorrect information?

Recs are not required to participate in recruitment.

Beyond that Campus Panhellenic can not make statements regarding the membership selections of individual GLOs. Membership selection is private.

In a school where there are MANY PNMs that it becomes a de facto process that Recs are required as a simple means of cutting PNMs. Even if recs are not necessarily de jure.

Basically if you have to sort out through a lot of PNMs cutting those without recs essentially makes life easier.

An analogy may be resumes in a highly competitive job application process with typos are thrown out even if the applicant may have been the best person for the job.

---

I should have read above, HQWest pretty much answered your questions in the preceding post.

FSUZeta 08-01-2012 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debann127 (Post 2161879)
So I just went out there looking for recs and got 3 of them which I dont know if those are my top pics as Im trying to keep an open mind about all 16 of the houses at FSU. How does the recommendation help me? Does it guarantee a bid or is it just something that is used to tell a little more about me and possibly get me a bit more noticed.

Good grief, how did I miss this? debann, just like Irishpipes and HQWest told you, you need recs to EVERY sorority at FSU-not just your top three. There is no wiggle room. Get cracking!

Going in with top choices already and recs. only for those three sororities is not good. PNMs are not in the drivers seat-the sororities are.

FSUZeta 08-01-2012 09:47 AM

If the college you are attending says that it is the responsibility of the sororities to secure a recommendation for you, go check this thread. If your college is listed, get to work.

Another clue that you need recommendations is when the individual sorority chapter websites at your college list an address where recommendations should be sent. You can bet that if the sororities provide an address for recommendations, then you need them.


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