Someone correct me if I'm wrong, as my school truly does not require them (and probably wouldn't know what to do with one if we got it!), but I feel like a lot of schools say recs aren't required, when in reality it's kind of hard to get through the first round without them. This may not be true of OSU, I have no idea about them specifically, but this is the general feeling I've gotten by reading through threads about bigger schools.

Yes.

Basically, Panhellenic is its own entity, and formal rush is run by Panhellenic. They can't come out and say "you need recs to get past round 1" because Panhellenic doesn't know the specific membership selection policies of its member groups. It's true that you do not need recs at all to PARTICIPATE in rush.

And sororities don't want to put on their web pages "you can't pledge without a rec" because at some schools, that would hurt the number of interested women considerably. They also don't want anyone to misunderstand and think rec = guaranteed bid.

Further, if you are Suzy Awesome from the city with 8,000 XYZ alumnae, XYZ will find you a rec. It's just that the vast, vast, vast majority of PNMS are not Suzy Awesome, even if they think they are.

My PNM is Suzy sometimes Awesome. Glad we're in an area where there are alumnae left and right. And glad I found this site so I could look around and try to educate myself.

Certain chapters at OSU most definitely require recs.

Certain sororities require recs - period. I am sometimes surprised when a member of a sorority which requires recs states "My chapter didn't get recs/didn't require them." In those cases, it was the alumnae working behind the scenes who probably secured the necessary recomendations. I think some sororities may need to educate their members a little more on the necessity of recs.

Bottom line - always get a rec.

I was reading the Ok State 2012 Recruitment Guide for dates, etc. so I can schedule flights. I found this regarding recs:

"Recommendations may be considered in the membership selection process. The Panhellenic Council highly suggests that each PNM have a recommendation letter for each of our twelve chapters; however, this is not required. The Panhellenic Council recommends you contact your local Alumnae Panhellenic Association or any sorority alumna you know to request a letter of recommendation for any of our 12 chapters."

I would guess that, in many chapters, unless you are the president or the recruitment chair, or another role closely involved with MS, you have no idea what recs do/don't do behind the scenes.

This ^

Without treading into membership selection territory, I am confused by this and find myself in need of enlightenment, especially since I have a HS senior daughter that I'm currently helping get recs. for a "good to have them" southern school. I live in "rec desert" land where no one has them. I don't think any of the sororities on the campus where I advise expects or requires them. If only the president or recruitment/membership chair knows what they say or who has them, what's the purpose? It seems that many of the sororities we're being asked to provide rec. info. for ask for topics of conversation at recruitment, what type of member would be a good match during recruitment, etc. It seems like those sororities are using the recs. for information that would definitely be shared with the chapter, not just during selection procedures, but to more effectively recruit the PNMs.

This is probably an equally ignorant question, but I am sincerely curious. If someone who is fabulous doesn't have a rec., and someone behind the scenes has to secure one because it's mandated by XYZ sorority, what is the value of a rec. secured by an assisting XYZ alum/advisor who doesn't know the PNM, from someone from her hometown (?) who doesn't know the PNM well, either?

In answer to the bolded, I thought that too, until I read on here that some of the sororities on my campus (and similar campi) have national policies that say you must have a rec to be pledged. My guess is that the sorority found it in their best interests to make it a national policy, for one reason or another - even if the woman who gives the rec doesn't know the rushee. It seems pointless, but I am guessing that if the sorority has found this policy effective for the MAJORITY of their chapters, they'll keep it in.

Not to mention the policy was probably written years ago - when fewer women went through recruitment and would be more likely to have an alumna write a personal rec.

The answer to the question of the value of the rec - some are more valuable than others. Also, bear in mind that if, for example, a girl from Katy were to go through recruitment without recs all the alumna in charge of recruitment would have to do is call the Katy chapter to get someone from the area who either 1.) knows her or 2.) can find someone who does.

First of all, I'll say that at any competitive SEC school, odds are you won't get invited back without a rec and so they'll never know if you are fabulous.
IF you do manage to get invited back, you can be SURE that the back room folks are working the phones about you. Honest. I've gotten many a call late at night about a PNM. For those who haven't lived this, they really don't understand. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that it is. The south is very old school, small town. Even if you're from Dallas or Atlanta. We want to know who your daddy is, etc...and we'll find out....one way or another if it means enough to us.

I said the role they play "behind the scenes". I'm not going to veer into MS too much, but I bet that, be it tiny school or SEC, rec-land or rec-desert, the average chapter member has NO IDEA how the final bid list is compiled, and possibly has only some idea of how the round-by-round invite lists happen.

I thought that more orgs had this rule than didn't. Ultimately, though, any alum can write a rec for any woman. Most chapters have alums on hand during recruitment. Ergo...

(sorry, double-post)

Honestly, it's probably about 50/50...and I never saw an alum of any of our groups (except for the group that had the first chapter sister on the roll, who was a professor, as an advisor) anywhere near rush.

Your chapter advisor wasn't involved with rush?

Good God, no. We had to have a faculty member as our advisor - regardless of whether they were Greek or not. She was nice but clueless. But as a nonmember, she obviously had zero say in membership selection (as it should be). The most she may have done was pick up the bid list, and that was hit or miss depending on her schedule - miss more than hit. This was before the days of alumnae advisory boards (or should I say before the days of the concept of an alumnae advisory board, whether or not it actually occurs).

I'm at an SEC school and we've never discussed recs. Makes me wonder which chapters do and which chapters don't? Definitely not 100% necessary though or I wouldn't have gotten a bid.

I have wondered, and this is just speculation not any sort of background knowledge, if some chapters who have in the past considered them mandatory won't be diminishing their importance. If EVERYONE has them, then they really don't have any value except in the case where it is a GLOWING recommendation full of information the chapter wouldn't otherwise know. At these particular schools, it's been discussed ad nauseum about how the chapter has a good idea of who they want before rush even starts, that if every girl in the chapter has only 1 girl they want and are prepared to fight for, that's 3 X quota without a single girl walking through the door. Doesn't that make the hassle of processing recs kind of time consuming and superflouous?

Really the benefit to the chapter is having them early enough to get an idea of who the PNM is, pair her with the right active during first round and make a quick judgement about each PNM when you have so little time to meet them and so many to cut first round. In my experience it's not like you're literally sitting around and saying "no rec! no second round for you!" but if a PNM doesn't have have one then she isn't going to get much attention at most houses. If someone gets a no rec, or has one written by someone very important, or if there's something funny or unusual about it like her photo or the fact that she had 28 recs come in, then that might be discussed. :D

Also it isn't completely unusual for a PNM who thinks she doesn't have a rec to actually have one. Alumnae will automatically write them for hometown girls they know and like without the girl asking or knowing. She may think she got a bid without a rec but it really was there.

Totally agree with the bold part. Just because you didn't secure your own rec, doesn't mean you didn't have one.

Just generally on the topic of what chapter members know about recs:

My understanding of what I was supposed to know about recruitment and membership selection is tainted by my not having always paid attention when I should have at chapter and by some other unusual circumstances involved in being a spring pledge who didn't initially make grades, in addition to it having been more than 20 years ago (gulp). I know what I do now about MS in my own organization from talking to current advisors when I was trying to figure out how to write the most helpful recommendations for the chapters.

I sometimes wonder what the average chapter member at a big recruitment knows about the invite list these days, especially in the era of release figures.

One other thing: I'm afraid that hopeful PNMs and their moms take away the impression here that having a rec at a competitive recruitment does more than it can. The majority of PNM are going to have positive recs at competitive recruitment, just as they have amazing resumes and grades. A positive rec isn't probably going to set you apart that much. It just saves you from being in the pool who doesn't even have that.

Yes! Yes!

Oh nooooo, you have started something that's going to last in my family for YEARS!!!!

It falls into the same issue as rec vs no rec, right? If 900 girls have recs and 700 of those have > or = 2, you better have at least 2.

No, it's not that clear cut. It depends how well you know the rec writers and what they have to say. A second rec written by a random alumna you met through the local AA doesn't really mean all that much.

I will be going through FR in a few weeks at an SEC school (I'm sure you can tell which one). I am a legacy to one sorority there and have secured three letters of recommendation for that particular sorority (as well as recommendations for others, including other multiples). I know that you girls cannot predict the future and cannot give out information on membership selection, but without getting into the secretive stuff I was wondering if my legacy status in combination with multiple good recs would even get me noticed at that sorority. I know that at a school with a very competitive recruitment like mine, being a legacy doesn't mean a whole lot and having a rec is standard, so I'm just curious about how much it'll help. I know it can't hurt!

Typically, it would mean you'll get at least a courtesy invitation to the first invitational round, but if the number of legacies going through is too high (and it often is for certain groups at UGA), it may not even mean that.

Wowza. Are you speculating about this maybe happening some day or have release figures gotten so tight at some chapters at UGA that we know of legacies that the chapters didn't even carry to second round?

Sometimes I think I basically understand the implications of policies, and then new stuff hits me each year.

How tight are the numbers with RFM? Let's say 1200 go through at UGA and Group A has a 100% return rate. About how many women to they get to ask to second round?

Since West Virginia is now part of the Big XII, do you need a rec there?

Changing athletic conferences has nothing to do with the competitiveness of the greek system. If you needed recs. there before, you will need them now. Maybe someone familiar with WVU will be able to tell you if you need recs.

Bumping for someone who asked for this information.

So I just went out there looking for recs and got 3 of them which I dont know if those are my top pics as Im trying to keep an open mind about all 16 of the houses at FSU. How does the recommendation help me? Does it guarantee a bid or is it just something that is used to tell a little more about me and possibly get me a bit more noticed.

How can you have top picks yet? Recruitment hasn't even started.

No, a rec in no way guarantees anything. Not having a rec can practically guarantee an automatic cut at some chapters. That is all you are protecting yourself from, and you are giving the chapters more information about you to use when making membership selection decisions. If you only have recs for 3 chapters, you really need to be doing everything you can to get 13 more, and quickly.

Think about recruitment like a job interview. At a school where not many people have recs - a rec can be like a letter of introduction to someone you don't know or someone sending you to talk to someone about an unadvertised job opening that might be a good fit for you. It can help your resume get into the "must look at" pile.

At a school where everyone has recs - it can be kind of like a background check - is your resume really as good as you say? Or it can be like a really good letter of reference - she's awesome you should take her! Again, it can help your resume get into the "must look at" pile. (unless you don't make grades....)

In either case, member selection is up to the chapter, so while a really good reference can help, there very likely wouldn't be any decisions made on just that.

I have a question about recommendations, and I have searched this forum but cannot find similar discussions. My daughter will be participating in recruitment at a large school with a very active greek life. When we attended orientation earlier this summer, the greek life rep responded to a specific question by saying that recs "aren't needed" and even went so far as to give the impression securing them is a waste of time. Fast forward to a couple of weeks before rush and I learn on this forum that recs are "absolutely necessary" at her school.

Fortunately she was able to secure a few in the short time we had prior to the rec letter deadline, but had we gotten accurate information at orientation, she could have gotten recs to all the chapters. Why would the greek life representative give incorrect information?

Recs are not required to participate in recruitment.

Beyond that Campus Panhellenic can not make statements regarding the membership selections of individual GLOs. Membership selection is private.

In a school where there are MANY PNMs that it becomes a de facto process that Recs are required as a simple means of cutting PNMs. Even if recs are not necessarily de jure.

Basically if you have to sort out through a lot of PNMs cutting those without recs essentially makes life easier.

An analogy may be resumes in a highly competitive job application process with typos are thrown out even if the applicant may have been the best person for the job.

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I should have read above, HQWest pretty much answered your questions in the preceding post.

Good grief, how did I miss this? debann, just like Irishpipes and HQWest told you, you need recs to EVERY sorority at FSU-not just your top three. There is no wiggle room. Get cracking!

Going in with top choices already and recs. only for those three sororities is not good. PNMs are not in the drivers seat-the sororities are.

If the college you are attending says that it is the responsibility of the sororities to secure a recommendation for you, go check this thread. If your college is listed, get to work.

Another clue that you need recommendations is when the individual sorority chapter websites at your college list an address where recommendations should be sent. You can bet that if the sororities provide an address for recommendations, then you need them.