And Alpha Gams. There are lots of us in Michigan.

I say that based on a few things. When I went through recruitment, girls gave the same reaction to recs as brighteyedgirl, they only knew if they were legacy status and had no clue what recs were unless they came from a rec-heavy area. In terms of my own chapter, we didn't see many recs at all, unless the PNMs came from a rec-heavy area (SEC country, primarily). I also was curious as to if this was just us, since we don't have a ton of chapters in the area = harder access to alums and thus recs, so I asked members of other chapters and they said the same thing. We get some recs, but not the stacks and stacks of them you see at an SEC chapter. Legacies yes (some chapters could fill their PCs with legacies), recs...not so much. Sure, it helps get your foot in the door and an early early advantage, but in the long run, they just don't have a ton of weight at IU.

I agree. IU is not a rec heavy school. Since IU is a Dec & Jan recruitment school, recs are helpful for pre-recruitment activities, but the majority of women don't have them. (to give a rough idea, last year there were approximately 1600 women that went through recruitment, our chapter had about 100 formal recs- incl. legacy forms).

(edited for brevity!) Thanks, I see now. It's a very helpful explanation! It helps to have context. Much appreciated.

ETA: I could veer off on a tangent (no worries, not going to) and wonder if some chapters get lots of recs. But it is a tangent and not germane to the topic and I'm not going to wonder about it. Any more. At all. Ever again.

I concur with FR and IUHoosierGirl88. Recs really just get a girl invited to a pre-rush lunch or dinner. That way the chapter can say they gave the PNM and extra look without committing to inviting her to 14 party. From others I have talked to on campus, 100 recs seems to be about the average for IU. I know some chapters s get a few more and some even get less than 100. I know that it must sound odd that with a recruitment that large and competitive recs just aren't a big deal, but they aren't.

I think I understand what y’all are saying, but perhaps I’m missing something. Isn’t one of the reasons of securing a recommendation – regardless of the school – is to get that "foot in the door" and perhaps an "early advantage”?

If I remember correctly, IU’s unique recruitment structure is such that quota is not set based on the number of women attending preference. Each chapter bases the number of bids to extend based on the number of “bed spots”. As such, many women do not receive a bid - even some who attend three preferences parties.

So it seems to me that while a recommendation may not be needed to receive a bid (well, other than those sororities that require one), having any type of an advantage (i.e. recommendation) might help a PNM to maximize her options. Of course, once the PNM has her “foot in the door”, it is still up to her to win over the members.

^^TSteven, I am going to go out on a limb and say something that might get me some fire, but with RFM and strong recruiting chapters having to make heavy cuts early, the "foot in the door" as you called it is just a formality. Inviting the rec over to a pre-rush dinner is way to say your gave them an extra look, but in reality it's a way to be able to let them go after 14 party if you have to make heavy cuts. They believe it appeases the rec writer without having to give up a spot in their invitation list during heavy cuts.

I see what you are saying. Thanks.

i have a university up for debate. the university is California Polytechnic State University at San Luis Obispo.

when i went to the greek life website today it had a webpage just for letters of rec. when i went through in 2002, i was so clueless and had no idea what they were. i think this had some part in why i didn't get a bid. now, from personal experience i know a lot of girls who go through are legacies and are prepared with recs.

just putting this out there for people to think about...

I have a question about recs, can you get recs from your local panhellenic AND local alumnae for each sorority?

Recs are best gotten from someone you know personally. Going to alumnae panhellenic is what you do after you have gone through all people you know who may be sorority alumnae.

are recs really Realistic? i'm going to use myself as an example here, even though i don't THINK recommendations are something that i require for the sororities at my school. i'm a first generation college student and i haven't been exposed to a lot of college graduates, let alone greek alumane. rushing was a whim decision for me, so how really would i be expected to collect recs?

It depends on the school, which is the purpose of this thread. While girls CAN get bids at even the most competitive schools without them, the expectation is that you need them and that cuts will be especially harsh if you don't do the legwork in advance. I'm not a fan of the process, except where the rushee is a close personal friend of the rec writer. But If I were close friends with an 18 year old heading off to one of the schools listed here, I'd still suggest she do the legwork and get the 2 recs per chapter. If you're going to one of these schools, do the reading here to get up to speed and then start beating the bushes to find the recs.

So none of your high school teachers, counselors, coaches, Sunday School teachers, employers, parents' employers, neighbors, etc went to college???? And if they did and weren't Greek, they don't know anyone in your town who is????? That's what we mean by networking....

Titchou hit the nail on the head.

Even if you from the Northeast where Greek life is maybe something that people don't talk about as much on an alumnae level, look at it this way. You are not going to be wearing the same clothes in Mississippi in December that you would wear in New York in December. You're going to do some homework and figure out what is most fit for the weather, the climate, and the campus in general. Ditto the Atlantan who goes to Yale. Neither of you are going to say "but no one in my town has ever gone there before, so I have no idea what to wear." It's the same with rushing and getting recs.

High school teachers have all gone to college (hopefully). Lots of them were in sororities (since lots of them went to teachers' colleges in small towns where there is not a heck of a lot to do). They are the first people to ask.

QFT

Bingo!!

I don't know if it's been mentioned before in this thread but I think University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is becoming one of those schools where recommendations are sort of important. I personally know a lot of girls this year that didn't get any bids. They're especially necessary/important for the new colonies coming in.

I think you should double-check your facts.

UVA
 

UVA is listed as an "up for debate" school, however I am hearing that their recruitment can be brutal. Can someone familiar comment on how recs are perceived there?

I am deep in SEC country and my neighbor will be rushing in Jan. There are currently no girls in sororities at UVA from our town. I have been helping her obtain a rec for each chapter, but over the weekend her mom was getting messages from some of her sorority alumnae that we should be sending two recs per chapter. My initial thought was these women are approaching it through their SEC lenses, but then I remembered previous comments on GC about UVA being a tough recruitment.

Thoughts on one vs two recs per group? We definitely want her prepared, but without the perceived over-kill.

Two would be better than one at UVA.

Out of curiosity (not argument), is this still true if neither one knows her personally?

Recs are important at UVA. Two would be better than one, but one is good.

ETA -- didn't see earlier reply.

It's always better to have personal recs. I can't say what any given chapter at any given school will do with a non personal one. I would never write a totally unknown rec. I always get the information from someone I trust and so state on the rec. Otherwise I decline to do one or make it "information only" which is not a real rec with us.

So are we at a consensus that UVA isn't really "up for grabs?"

Is more than 2 overkill? The neighbor knows 4 members of my own organization really, really well. In addition, her mom remains close with her own chapter sisters (a different group than me) and these women have watched her grow up and also know her really well.

Again, it's walking the "how are we most helpful without annoying the chapter?" fine line.

I would say 2 for sure but no more than 3. As for her legacy chapter, the mother needs to notify the chapter in whatever manner her group prefers - it may be a legacy form, a rec of her own, whatever. But she needs to do that as they may find it odd if she doesn't.

I'm fairly certain the legacy form piece has been taken care of but I will confirm with her mom.

Will just stick with 2 for our group. I know both were very well written recs with lots of very specific details about character, personality, and commitment, in addition to the standard resume stuff.

Thank you for the helpful feedback. I have become well versed on SEC, and being from Texas I know how those campuses work too. UVA was a whole new ballgame for me, and not having any local collegians made it that much more of a mystery.

This PNM is beyond amazing and while I would be over the moon for her to join my group, I mostly want her to have a successful recruitment and find the best place for her. There are few PNMs that I would go to these lengths for, and she is one of them.Thanks again for the help.

I am familiar with UVa. Two will typically not be seen as overkill. More than two (unless the third is meaningfully different)may not be perceived as annoying but wiith some groups may be seen as trying a bit too hard. Women who keep their options open can find a home. Some chapters are quite similar in personality to others, so a PNM may find she really likes a cluster of chapters. If one does not invite her back, another of the others may (which can help with disappointment).

That's what I am trying to ask, so let me rephrase: if you don't know anyone, and end up getting them through the AP, is it worth it to get two?

I can't give you an answer to that as I don't do that and here in my area, we call till we find someone who knows them. That is to say, if a girl comes to my AP requesting a rec for my group, I will find someone who knows her or I won't write it. And I know how we judge recs on the collegiate side. And knowing the woman counts more than not knowing her. The info AP gets just from the form the woman fills out is the same info so she puts on the recruitment registration form so it comes from the PNM either way and is not verified. Why would anyone give that added weight?

I want to echo what Titchou has said to head off PNMs thinking that going through the APH would only yield an info-only rec. I am very active in my local APH and can assure PNMs that many of our groups do network to find an alum that knows the girl. Will all groups of all APHs go to this length? I have no way of knowing. However, I don't want the assumption to be made that registering the the APH will only yield a rec that says "I don't know this girl."

Girls who registered with our local APH, and needed 2 recs from my organization, all got personal recs. Was it a lot of work on our part. Yes. Was it worth it? Absolutely.

DBB- If you don't know anyone, and have 2 "I don't know this girl recs" I would speculate that is not any more helpful than 1 "I don't know this girl" rec. I just wanted to clarify for PNMs that it can be worth it to register. It's not an automatic info only rec in those cases.

And just to clarify, I always let the PNM know what I've done. I don't want them thinking they've got a rec when they don't. I think it's better to be up front with them about it.

Thanks, all.

How do I obtain recs?
 

My local community does not have an organized alum group, so I am having a hard time acquiring recs for every sorority. Any advice? So far, I've gotten about half.

You've done very well, then!
Keep at it - keep asking folks if they know anyone in a sorority. Ask the ladies who've already written ones for you.
Do your best, but frankly, sometimes you just cannot find anybody.
Don't worry - just get yourself ready for college, polish your smile, make sure your clothing is clean and ready to go - and enjoy the experience! It will never happen again quite like this, so just enjoy getting to meet everybody!

Can we figure out where Indiana actually belongs on the list so their's no more confusion?

Indiana alumnae keep telling you that recs are NOT absolutely, positively needed and no one believes us. There is no confusion about needed recs.. Most people are confusing its level of competitiveness with the need for recs. They are not one and the same.

I would never tell someone to NOT get the recs. Recs will not hurt you at IU. If a PMN has them, great. If they don't have them, it's not a total loss either.

However, here is the caveat: those having recs, do not expect an automatic invitation to the next round. It is not a given at IU. Also, chapters are only allowed to do pre-recruitment activities with their legacies now. Previously, the recs were helpful in getting you a pre-recruitment lunch or dinner, now unless you are a legacy this is not going to happen.

But what are you trying to say?

Do you see these events sticking around as legacy only or do you think they'll eventually phase out and switching them to legacy only is the first step?