two groups with the same name
 

Given the limited number of options for arraging the twenty-four Greek letters, as-well-as the restricted methods of communications 100-150 years ago, it is surprising that more organizations did not come up with the same name. It is a real challenge for a founding group today to find a name not already in use by a social fraternity or sorority, or some professional society.

Kappa Alpha had originally taken the name Phi Kappa Chi until they determined how confusing it would be with Phi Kappa Psi already on campus. Little did they know that up north another Kappa Alpha had already existed for forty years. It never became a serious issue because the southern group became known as Kappa Alpha Order and (until just recently) limited its growth to the south. The northern group became known as Kappa Alpha Society, expanded little and confined its chapters to Canada and the northeast U. S.

The Adelphean ladies at Wesleyan College originally chose Alpha Delta Phi as their Greek letter name until they discovered that there was a northern fraternity by the same name. They changed the Phi to Pi to avoid confusion. Their sister group at Wesleyan selected the name of Phi Mu unaware that at Elmira College (a ladies only institution in New York) a group had been using the name for twenty years. They may have never known of the duplication because the Elmira group died in 1911. Interestingly, also at Elmira, another group took the name Kappa Sigma! It too ceased to exist around 1911.

The Chi Phi fraternity that we know today is actually an amalgamation of three different groups by the same name. The first was founded at Princeton in 1854. Another Chi Phi group was founded at Hobart College in 1860. A third Chi Phi organization was founded at University of North Carolina in 1858. The first two groups, having lost most of their chapters during the Civil War, merged in 1867. All of their five remaining chapters were in the north. Following several years of negotiations, the northern and southern branched of Chi Phi were united in 1874, bringing the new fraternity a total of twenty active chapters. The early Baird's Manuals listing for Chi Phi distinguished the chapters by which of the original organizations they had belonged.

There are countless cases where a local society took the name of an already existing organization. The issue was usually resolved fairly expediently when they sought affiliation as a chapter of a national fraternity or sorority. However, there is a Sigma Pi at Illinois College that predates the national organization by more than sixty years. Delta Psi (a part of Delta Upsilon from 1850-1854) exists as a local at University of Vermont with no connection at all to the national fraternity of the same name. There is also a Phi Mu Delta at Carson-Newman College that predates by more than seventy years the small national fraternity by the same name.

Delta Phi Epsilon, an N. P. C. sorority and a professional foreign service fraternity, share the same name. This has never become a serious problem as the two organizations rarely cross paths to cause any confusion.

Of course, there is often much confusion when chapter designations duplicate a national fraternity or sorority name. Eyebrows rise when a young man says he is from Delta Gamma (meaning chapter) or a young lady proudly claims membership at Delta Chi!

There are probably other examples of name duplications that Greek Chat members can share with us.

The Founders of Sigma Chi originally named our fraternity Sigma Phi, not realizing that Sigma Phi already existed in the east. Our name was not changed because of the original Sigma Phi, but because a rival fraternity at Miami (they suspected Beta Theta Pi) broke into their chapter room and stole the original ritual. When the Founders rewrote the ritual, they changed the name to Sigma Chi.

I am an alumn of the Theta Chi chapter of Sigma Chi. It sometimes causes confusion. We would often get information mailed to us as the Theta Chi fraternity.

I understand there are two Alpha Lambda Taus. My Dad was a member of the first one which later merged with TKE, I believe.

Alpha Delta Sigma, the multicultural sorority founded at the University of Alabama a few years back, shares its letters with a national honor society for advertising majors.

i understand back in the days when communication was more difficult, but today with the advent of the internet and other forms of communication, there should be no reason for groups to have more than one name. if you're gonna have a 3 letter org, there are 13824 possible letter arrangements. i know there are bout probably between 200 & 300 already taken up by Social, Honorary, Music, Service & Professional orgs, but you still got a whole lot left to choose from.

As was said, the advent of the PC!:)

Bairds was at one time the best place to look, but evne they have a much more watered down directory.

When I started a local I named BX, I knew there were no Nationals of that name. But I found out later there there were more locals with the same name. After affiliation, the point became moot.

The combonation of letters as BlueNYC2 said are huge.

Try Greekpages.com and see which beginning letters are most popular.

There's an Omega Phi Alpha local fraternity in California that just recently became affiliated with DU. They retained the Omega Phi Alpha as their chapter name and are very proud of their long local history.

It's caused a little confusion before, and Google searches pull up a lot of their stuff.

There have been two fraternities named "Theta Kappa Nu".

I was so surprised when I read they went national! But good for them. I am sure it was a long and hard decision to be made among lots of undergrads and alums.

Hijack:
I hadn't heard about ADSig until you posted this and prompted me to look them up, although I did hear about the situation that their founding arose out of.

As another aside, I have to say that I hate when organizations write non-members into their "external" histories.

Curious as to what you mean by this? I don't want you to have to call out anyone by posting examples, but I'm just not sure what you're referring to.

Mostly in younger orgs, but when they write their histories and post it on their websites as well as in other public venues and it includes info like "we were looking at another org but decided not to go that route, or we split from another org" because they didn't exemplify true sisterhood, etc. etc. I just feel like it is unecessary and draws attention away from the group itself. Most of the time (if not all of the time) the orig group isn't reference by name, so it's not like its a "buyer's beware" sort of warning, so I feel like what is the point. If it played such a significant role in the forming of your organization then let it be known to members and pledges as it seems to be what most GLOs would place under private info anyway, but why post it?

For example, many people know the history behind the split between DST and AKA, but DST isn't putting that on websites and such. It distracts, imo, from what the organization (not DST here, but orgs that do this) is (trying to be) about.

^^^ Yeah, I definitely understand that point of view. I mean, it's important info, but has little to do with the value of the org. Only raises questions.

The original members of the Saturday Night Club in Richmond had intended to take the Greek letter name of Sigma Phi. When they approached the college committee for approval, the professor in charge pulled out a copy of Baird's Manual and showed them of an organization by that name already in existence. After a long pause, the young chairman of the group said, "Doctor, there has been considerable discussion among our men about the name of our organization and you have decided a question which we could not decide for ourselves...since there is already a Sigma Phi we shall call our fraternity Sigma Phi Epsilon."

do you ever post anything that is not greek-history related?

just wonderin'.

Look at that intelligent use of statistics. Talk about applyin' mathematics to real situations, ya digg?

What?

How else would he discover that there are 13824 possible ways to rearrange 3 letters without applying basic statistical methods?

Yeah so type that next time and leave "ya dig" out.

Isn't there another post like this somewhere on GC?

Yes, ma'am. ;):D

SAE has an issue with a group in the Philippines sharing our name. That group was originally organized in the 1940s as a Society of Agricultural Engineering, but later changed their name to 'Sigma Alpha Epsilon.' They weren't recognized by their founding campus until 1966. At some point early on an actual member of Sigma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity visited the Philippines and came across this group and, thinking they were members, attempted to make contact. He realized quickly enough that it was a mere coincidence with respect to the name, and that they were not, in fact, members of our Fraternity.

For a very brief period about 20 years ago as best I can tell, some communication took place between their governing body and our executive director, including sending them some pledge manuals in the hopes they might lead to an expansion of our Fraternity abroad. They were unable to put together the standard chartering fee or otherwise obtain Colony status, nevermind status as an actual charterered chapter. So instead they began incorporating our trademarks, copyrights, and service marks into their own group, claiming them as their own, and attempting to make it appear as though they shared a common ancestry with the rest of our chapters. A review of any of their websites will show images that include or are clearly based upon our flag, our coat of arms, and/or the images of our Founders.

I remember when someone from the Philipines group created a thread on here last year, I believe.

It confused me. I thought they were just a chapter in the Philipines.

Exactly. That's precisely what they're trying to convey: that they're in some manner an extension of our Fraternity. The fact is, they have never been formally associated with our Fraternity beyond being very briefly an 'interest group.' To me, what they're doing is analagous to expressing an interest in pledging, but not being able/willing to even start, much less complete the process, dropping out, and 'creating' their own 'SAE' using our protected marks. Then they wonder why those who hold SAE dear to their hearts would take offense to their actions. :rolleyes:

They've attempted to justify their actions by relaying that they're recognized by their local government and educational authorities as a fraternity with this name, but they can't ever present a rational argument to justify why so many of their websites, t-shirts, flags, and other imagery are clearly stolen from our Fraternity. They've even gone as far as using terms of SAE-Philippines vs. SAE-USA, as though both are two halves of the same whole. Considering our Founding date predates their whole organization by a century, we are the original, the real, and the only SAE, not just SAE-USA. They squandered the opportunity they once had to become legitimate members of our Fraternity in favor of defining themselves as impostors simply because it was easier and less expensive.

They can assert their standing as an officially recognized organization in their country all they want. It's bad enough that they're using our name, but they'll continue to be considered impostors with respect to Sigma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity unless and until they cease and desist with all use or display of any and all of OUR protected marks by all of their chapters and members. To be explicitly clear, those include all of the following and any derivative works thereof [ref: United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO)]:

• Trademarked flag (Serial# 75538565, Reg.# 2346560)
• Trademarked coat of arms (Serial# 71670125, Reg.# 0617623)
• Trademarked name/letters (SAE) (Serial# 71589597, Reg.# 0538680)
• Trademarked name/letters (FA) (Serial# 71302055, Reg.# 0277162)
• Trademarked typed drawing - True Gentleman (Serial# 76330928, Reg.# 2674447)
• Trademarked typed drawing - Sigma Alpha Epsilon (Serial# 76198084, Reg.# 2665456)
• Trademarked pledge badge design (Serial# 74187138, Reg.# 1706605)
• Trademarked Active badge design (Serial# 71670126, Reg.# 0617624)
• Trademarked design - True Gentleman Initiative (Serial# 76330930)
• Trademarked design - crosses (Serial#76330929)
• Content taken from The Phoenix (our pledge manual) or from any of our other published literature.
• Imagery taken from any of our websites or publications including images of our Founders.

This means no banners, flags, website images, website backgrounds, text, advertisements, tshirts, or media of any form or reproduced in any manner which contain or are otherwise based upon any of the above material. Any such existing material must be taken down or discarded, and no future material may be made. Do this, and they will no longer be impostors, but merely a totally separate organization in another area of the world that by coincidence has the same name.

When I was an undergrad (back in the day!) I remember hearing of a local group at Furman Univ. (SC) that was called the Chios. We were told that Chi Omega never challenged their use of the name because eventually, it might be possible to have them as a part of Chi Omega when/if the campus decided to allow NPC groups.

In 1995, the Chios Society became the Epsilon Lambda Chapter of Chi Omega Fraternity.

Darn it! The SAE Philipines guy deleted his post before I could quote him.

At any rate....this is what I just found from a video on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMCsjg4pBu4)

"Their" flag: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...hillipines.jpg

and

SAE's official flag: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ficialflag.jpg


One of them wearing a t-shirt with "their" coat of arms: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...illipines2.jpg

Hmm, looks suspiciously like SAE's coa: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...e87/saecoa.jpg


Seems they even stole your True Gentlemen slogan: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...illipines3.jpg

as well as your colors and "Phi Alpha."



A coincidence of having the same letters is one thing, but IMO this deserves some serious a**-kicking!

ETA: SAEalumnus, you just updated your post while I was typing. How on earth are they getting away with this? I noticed that none of these things are on their official website but they're using them just the same. Very sneaky. and smarmy

That's beyond crazy.

Now THIS is more like it *applause*: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JhXO...eature=related

The Philipines SAE videos (there's more than one) are ridiculous. The comments under them are even more ridiculous.

Actually I deleted the post. What you've just found is exactly what I've been talking about.

Notice they're stealing the 20th Century Fox clip and a Nickleback song in addition to all of our imagery. I wonder if Fox or Nickleback are receiving any royalties from that or if any permission was obtained? :rolleyes::mad:

ETA: I love how at the end of that video they have the balls to say "copyright 2007" and "all initiation rights reserved" after lifting material from three different owners.

Yep, it's just a copyright infringement extravaganza!

^^^LOL with Disney and this there could be suits comming out of the whazoo(sp?)!

Thanks! :) That's some of our more recent promotional material. Ya their stuff is totally asinine and their blatent theft of other people's intellectual property is a mockery of not only our Fraternity, but of the entire concept of a fraternal organization.

ETA: I'm sticking this thread since it's the reverse of the Dual Memberships thread.

Brother,Great job!
And to all others, yes this has been going on for years.
I recall reading an article in our in-house magazine in the late 70's or early 80's about this group.

Oh I can't take personal credit for that video. That's HQ's work.

:):)
I KNOW that.
I was commenting about the rest.;)

Here's something fun:

Compare this (scroll down to Hobbies and Interests) with this (scroll to Mission Statement). The first is a friendster page for the Alpha Theta chapter of the Philippine group located in Dumaguete City. The second is Sigma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity's national website in North America.

Both read the same word for word: "The mission of Sigma Alpha Epsilon is to promote the highest standards of friendship, scholarship, and service for our members based upon the ideals set forth by our Founders and as specifically enunciated in our creed."

Who copied whom?

This part is a bunch of self serving c**p:
"About Me:
Sigma Alpha Epsilon coming to the Philippines was a coincidence. An American Exhange scholar of the University of the Philippines, Los Banos campus happened to come across the S.A.E. (Society of Agricultural Engineers), a campus organization for agricultural engineering major. Thought that it was the Sigma Alpha Epsilon, he, being a member in the United States, tried to make contact. When he realized the coincidence, he persuaded the group to transform it into a colony of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon. That was still on the 1940's , so the fraternity did not grow because of the indifference by the University and the Government powered secret society. The Sigma Alpha Epsilon, locally established, faded and slowly become almost forgotten.

Two decades later, a group of agricultural engineering major in the Central Mindanao State University of Musuan, Bukidnon, recognized the Sigma Alpha Epsilon as an existing fraternity in 1965. They recruited not only agricultural engineering major but also from other fields of discipline courses. On September 9, 1966, the Philippine Government duly recognized the SIGMA ALPHA EPSILON as an existing fraternity both in the campus and in the whole country."

This is NOT how one becomes a chapter, let alone a colony.
And just because a National GOVERNMENT recognizes a group does NOT make it a part of an existing Fraternity.

Just wondering....is the fact that this is going on in another country making it more difficult to enforce the copyright?

It shouldn't be more difficult. Many of our organizations have international chapters. I don't know if SAE does.