It's not about ME-A mom's rush story
 

I've been reading on this site for quite a few years in preparation for my oldest to participate in rush when it was her turn. I am an active member in my alumnae group, and served as Panhellenic Delegate and Membership Director for my chapter. I am very aware of how the rush process works. My organization is very strong in the south, especially Texas where I pledged. It was very competitive when I rushed, but thankfully I was clueless all those years ago, and I got into a very sought after house without even realizing that it was competitive.
When my daughter decided to attend a school that doesn't have my chapter. My mission was to make sure that her resume was perfect, her recs were complete, and that her rush outfits were on point. I found out which chapters were strong at her school, and which ones weren't as selective, but told her to go through with an open mind. ( I know I said it, but did really mean it.)
Being that we are two very different personalities, I thought that she may have a different experience than I would have had, but I really wasn't mentally prepared for HER choices. She's a very pretty, smart girl, but she is very quiet. She'll be the first to admit that she's an introvert and would rather curl up with a good book than attend a big party. (Very unlike me) She isn't nearly as outspoken as I am.
She attended open house and then listed her choices in order. I was shocked when she told me that she had listed the stronger two houses last and one of the less competitive houses first. Apparently they had put her with their pageant girls and cheerleaders, and she felt very uncomfortable. Of course I told her that they were only a few members out of a large chapter and even though she wasn't interested in those things, she could still have things in common with other members.
Thankfully, she had a full schedule the next round and was invited back to all of the houses. She once again visited the two stronger houses, and told me that she really wasn't comfortable with them. My heart sank. She said she really liked the girls in one of the smaller houses. I bit my tongue and told her she had to do what was right for her.
For pref round, she chose one of the two sought after houses as well as the smaller house where she really liked the girls. She put the competitive house second on her MRABA and listed the less selective house first. I was heartbroken. I would have definitely chosen the other house, but SHE was happy. After speaking with her, my husband could tell that I was very upset. He pointed out to me that it was HER rush, not mine and that I needed to let her be with who she was most comfortable with. I sucked it up and met her for bid day. When I saw her, she was elated! I cannot deny how happy she was. I know that she will have lifelong friends and has found her home.
As a mom, I am still disappointed that she didn't choose to list the stronger chapter as her first selection. I know that even if she did list them first, she may not have gotten a bid from them. The point is that I know that I was projecting what I wanted for her, not what she actually wanted. I know that it's also an ego thing for me, because we are very prominent in our community, and would love to be able to say that she pledged one of the bigger, stronger southern houses. I've read about mothers that interfere with their daughter's Bid Day parties by refusing to let their daughter's participate and making them reject their bids. I cannot even imagine doing this to my daughter. She would be crushed.
My point here is that you really have to step back and let it be THEIR rush, not yours. I told her that I'm glad that she's found her group and I know that she will be very happy with her new sisters.

You are a good mom. It is hard when our children decide which path to take and it ends up being a path we hadn't considered. You know she did the right thing for herself. She and her pledge sisters can make their chapter stronger if that's the direction the chapter wants to go. And now you get to shop for all the fun goodies in her sorority name!

I truly, truly do not comprehend. One of the reasons I've been reading GC for so many years - to learn.

But I applaud your realization that it is not your rush.

You daughter didn't even go to your school, if I understand correctly. So what did you have to base your relative ranking on? Some may be a stronger "chapters" (for some definitions of the word "stronger"), but that doesn't make the sorority any stronger/bigger/better, does it? What does being prominent in your community have to do with it?

<swerve> I do understand that such sentiments exist. Years ago, I was at the San Antonio airport greeting women arriving for the DG convention, when a woman walked by, asked what group we were with (despite our DG polo shirts), then literally flicked her finger at her nose as she told us her group. I had never met anyone from her group in my life. Took a while before I was willing to think positively of that group. </swerve>

DGTess, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you, my sister. I get what she is saying. If I had a daughter, I would certainly want her to be a DG first and then any other NPC group. However, I've done so much work nationally and am in my 6th year on an NPC committee that I am sure I would have preferences for her based on the school she attended. I probably wouldn't want her to pledge a chapter that had issues or that was historically a WRC simply because I would want the best possible experience for her. If I knew and liked the advisers in one chapter or another, I'd probably want her where I knew there were quality folks like them. I have even called friends who advised groups on campuses where we didn't have a chapter and lobbied for friends' daughters. BUT I would keep ALL this to myself. What I would want might not be a fit for her- but I'd be draining the local wine reserves to keep my mouth shut and be thrilled and positive for her.

I have to disagree. Yes, it is not my school and my organization isn't on campus. However, I have a lot of friends who are Alumnae for other groups and I became very aware as to what the sought after, strong groups on her campus were. When I say strong, I don't mean any disrespect, but to say that all groups on a particular campus are equal would be naive. (Grades, size, recruiting strength, Alumnae support, etc) Additionally, there are organizations that are more numerous in some regions than in others. Being that I'm heavily involved in our community, (Junior League, Women's Medical Auxiliary, etc) I have a lot of Panhellenic connections. The point was that even though my daughter was never uninvited and had a full schedule, she chose a smaller group that is struggling with their numbers. They didn't make quota and are about 30 off from total. In our community, it is assumed that our girls will pledge certain chapters. (Old row at Alabama would be an example.) During Rush, I wanted to tell her she should choose another group, but I kept my mouth shut. Saying that it has been easy would be a lie. When I read about mothers interfering in their daughter's Rush experiences, I really thought it was crazy. After going through it with my own daughter, I can easily see how this happens. I know that she is VERY happy. And the bottom line is that it was HER Rush not mine.

Next year my daughter and I could be in the exact same position so I am so glad that you stated this today.

In 1981 my mother who was a charter member of our DG chapter was living those exact words. She wisely held her tongue when I mentioned that I liked a group that didn't have a strong national and let me make my own choices. In the end I joined my legacy house and two years later my younger sister joined as well. However if we'd found our home at one of the other chapters, I know that my mother would have lead the mother's group and volunteered when necessary in order to support us.

I don't know if my daughter will choose to go through recruitment next year. However if she does I hope that I will be the cheerleader and listener that she requires me to be during those days.

My daughter went through recruitment several weeks ago at an SEC school. I had done everything you described! Great rec's for every chapter, fabulous resume, nice outfits etc. I was absolutely paranoid she would be dropped after first round as we were not from that state etc. She got asked back to max per round...and dropped her legacy house going into pref....I was beside myself still thinking she would get no bids as her two pref houses were considered the "top" two chapters....but I kept my mouth shut.....and she got her first choice..
THE moral of the story is, I let her do it....she had several chapters that I considered not as highly rated as her legacy chapter and I was sure she was going to be cut by these other highly "rated" chapters and then the legacy would cut her too.....BUT she told me she wanted to feel comfortable with the girls and not be in the chapter with the cheerleaders and pom pom girls no matter their "reputation".....I, of course, kept my mouth buttoned up but I was worried......In the end she got exactly what she wanted and it didn't matter what mom thought...
If she is happy, that is all that matters.....

What I'm reading here is "her sorority isn't good enough for me". Perhaps that's not what you mean, but you're sending the vibe that "she could do better".

Good thing it's best for her.

Question to momoffour
 

First I can understand your concern and also disappointment that your sorority has no chapter at this school.

And I have a question.

Your daughter pledged a "smaller" chapter. Does that mean it's struggling to meet quota each year? Or does it mean it's simply smaller (but OK on quota) and therefore not seen as strong. i certainly understand wanting her in a strong chapter but good on you that you let her find her own way!

That's how I read it as well. I have to admit, I've been surprised the OP has not been raked over the coals. GreekChat must be mellowing.

My takeaway is the OP seems to have raised a strong young woman who knows what she's about and could care less about appearances. That's the bottom line and it will serve her well.

Thank you for sharing this. I am sure it was a really tough time for both mom and new member alike!

I sincerely hope that your daughter continues to fall in love with her new sisterhood, and who knows? Maybe she and her new member class will be the group that helps them to turn their chapter around in recruitment and helps to improve their reputation on campus.

Same here; but, I think Mom is getting credit for the fact that she had enough self-awareness to admit that she was projecting her own wants and ego onto her daughter. She does outright say that she came to the conclusion that she needed to let the daughter have her own rush.



Mom, perhaps you can use your prominent social standing for good to promote your daughter's organization and help end the social stigmas around certain GLOs not being good enough for Southern families. For example, if an acquaintance asks you where you daughter pledged, avoid saying, "Oh....well....she went to Pref for fancy, prestigious, Southern XYZ chapter; but, against my advice she put down lesser, ABC chapter and accepted a bid from them. I tried to talk to her out of it; but, she wanted ABC more."

Instead, you can say something more gracious and dignified like, "She happily accepted a bid to ABC, has made lots of friends so far and is loving it. I wasn't too familiar with ABC at first; but, did you know that they support Such-and-Such philanthropy? I learned that the ABC foundation raised $3.8 million dollars for such-and-such last year alone. What a great organization!"

I'm not implying that my daughter is too good for her organization. What I'm saying is that in our social circle, there are certain organizations that it assumed your daughter will pledge. (Unless there's a problem with their grades, reputation, etc.) I used to read the stories of mother's pulling their girls at Bid Day and think it was crazy and swore that I would never do that. I didn't once tell her how to order her preferences each day. It was all her decision. I posted this to let people know that it isn't as easy as you would think, especially when she wasn't released by anyone. Her chapter hasn't made quota the last three years. I wanted her to be a part of a chapter that wouldn't be struggling and would be there long after she graduates. I would never speak badly of any organization. I'm sure that they have both strong and struggling chapters, just like there are for my organization. Like I said, she is very happy to have found her home, it's just not what I expected. As a mom, I thought it would be valuable to other moms to share my experience and let them know that it's harder than you think to let them make their own choices.

OK, this is the third post in which you've referred to your social circle.

Guess some of us don't measure up.

Out here.

I get what you're saying. When my daughters rushed, I hoped majorly that they wouldn't fall in love with a really struggling chapter. As a former Greek advisor, I had seen so much pain in these chapters--they could hardly enjoy any sisterhood (well, or brotherhood) because they were always trying to COB. They had to put up with rude behavior from rushees at parties.

And I can still remember the looks on their faces as they waited for their small pledge classes to come to them. These girls were never running. Some girls didn't even bother showing up and of the ones who did, there was a huge drop rate. I remember one sorority from the seventies that pledged 8 when quota was 40 and I know that they didn't initiate 8.

So yeah--past experience of the mom, whatever it might have been, plays into it.

Your daughter made the right choice, and you did too.

Yup. It seems like she can't get past the fact her daughter didn't join a "better" chapter (whether she says that to her directly or not), all so her friends can be impressed.

So she had options and she chose to be happy. Maybe her chapter ends up thriving. Or maybe it ends up closing (although I doubt this chapter is struggling as much as the chapter in the example carnation provided), but she clearly found her "home". Just like you did. She's not really selecting a chapter - none of us do. We're selecting our people. And she found hers.

Thanks Carnation! This is exactly what I am concerned about. I want her to have the best experience possible. She told me that during rush, some of the girls dropped out when they found out that hers was their only pref party. She thought it was silly, because everyone had been very nice to her and she really "clicked" with several of the members. ( She really liked the fact that they seemed very serious about school.) Their numbers aren't nearly as bad as the chapter you described, but they are one of the smaller ones on campus. DG Tess, I sincerely apologize for any perceived slight on my part. I'm not sure where you are located, or where you are from, but I promise you that there are strong traditions that are still adhered to in small, southern cities and towns. We laugh at ourselves in books like "The Southern Belle Primer, or Why Princess Margaret Will Never Be a Kappa Kappa Gamma", but a lot of these things still ring true, especially with some of the older members of our community. It is very much a cultural thing, and I didn't mean it as an insult.

Momoffour-I am very familiar with that book - and gave several copies as gifts! And whether right or wrong, some of the things still do ring true. (However, I think matching the punch to the color of the bridesmaids dresses no longer happens-at least I haven't seen it in many years- thank God!) But yes, it's a culture in the south that some just don't get but it's pervasive and hangs on in the darnedest places.

I grew up in a community like OP's where for a certain set of families, there are only three "acceptable" sororities to join and the social pecking order of women is dictated for life based on their sorority affiliation. If their daughters got cut from all three, the options were 1) drop out of rush and concoct some story about why daughter decided to pursue other interests in college, 2) immediately withdraw from school and enroll in a school that hasn't held rush yet, or 3) transfer to a school where those three chapters are WRCs, get a bid, and then transfer back to prestigious chapter after initiation.

Option #3 has gotten much more difficult to do in the internet age but #1 and #2 still happen every year to a few girls. There was one girl in my high school class who went through rush at Arkansas, somewhere else (can't remember), and finally Baylor before she got her KKG bid- this was all in the first 5 months of her freshman year!!

It sounds silly but kudos to this mom (who is probably experiencing snide comments and condescending looks from her social peers) for allowing her daughter to choose her own path in life.

That is fascinating to me :eek:

I hope she felt it was worth all the trouble in the end. Did she stay at Baylor, or transfer again after she got her bid?

I'm pretty sure she stayed and graduated from Baylor. The ironic thing about that girl is that she now lives out in the middle of nowhere with her husband and a couple of kids and they seem to be deliriously happy living their farm life. Even getting her into the "right" sorority didn't keep her from navigating her own path in life.

Her mom is a past Junior League of Dallas president, past sorority alumnae group president, chaired several of the biggest charity balls in town, "Top 10 Best Dreased" honoree, etc. I'm not close enough to know what their mother-daughter relationship is like.

Yes, in the South these were known as "feeder schools" where you could go get into AAA and then transfer to Alabama or wherever and be a member there. UAB here in Birmingham used to be one. And Ole Miss moved their recruitment to later in the fall because so many women would drop out of school when they didn't get the bid they wanted and go somewhere that had not started yet.

I am not saying I agree with all this....I'm just stating what happened. Like TXDG said,with the Internet this has pretty much gone by the wayside...but I can cite a lot of instances that I have personal knowledge of that fit these scenarios. Sad.

This still happens and one of my dearest friends is going through it with her daughter. For pref, she didn't have any of the chapters that she was expecting. She went to her pref parties because she knew that it would be rude not to show up like some other girls had done. She declined to fill out her MRBRA. She has asked me about COB in the spring, and I told her that it was highly unlikely that the chapters she's seeking will have Spring Rush. Additionally, I tried to tell her that if she was released by them, her chances of being picked up may not be so good. She's now telling me that her daughter is planning on transferring in the spring to a school where the chapters that released her aren't as competitive and have spring rush. Of course, I find this to be extreme, but it still happens.

I failed to mention that when asked, she's saying that her daughter developed Strep Throat and a high fever toward the end of rush and was not able to continue.

Yes to all of this. I am not saying that I agree with it, but I have personally seen it happen.

I remember vividly several girls moving out of my freshmen dorm before school even started to transfer to Baylor. One would think they could have waited until semester since Baylor has January recruitment but the social stigma of No Sorority or Wrong Sorority was too much for the girl (family?) to bear.

I also remember a girl down the hall from me freshmen year who declared she would be an ABC, which on our campus was one of the 2 (of 10 total) strongest recruiting chapters. She was cut after 2nd round and immediately dropped out, despite having quite a few chapters left.

She re-rushed sophomore year, again declaring that it was with the sole intention of being an ABC. This time I am not even sure she made it past 1st round with them. Once again she dropped, but this time moved out of the dorm and transferred schools. She chose to attend StateU-SmallTownBranch which was definitely a commuter school. However, they had a chapter of her precious ABC. Because this was in the age of semester long pledgeships she had to stay there all year in order to be initiated in January. The following fall guess who was back on our campus wanting to affiliate? And guess what chapter told her no? She was in letters every single day letting everyone under the sun know that she was an ABC, yet she had been rejected by our school's chapter 3x. I often wonder if it was worth it to her. She had the social prestige that her insecurity craved but with absolutely no friends in the organization or any college membership benefits.

When my MIL found out which sorority my daughter pledged, she asked me if she was disappointed that she "didn't get into a better sorority". She knew absolutely nothing about the GPA, activities, sisterhood, reputation... of my daughter's sorority or any of the sororities on her campus, she only knew the letters and was not shy about voicing her preconceived notion that some sororities are "better" than others.

And, yes, we live in the South.

And, yes, when I complained to my husband, he responded with his usual "That's just the way she is...." Arrrggghhh

I'm sure that anyone looking at all of this from the outside finds all of this to be ridiculous. As someone holding a sociology degree, I find the whole sub cultural aspect quite interesting. It ALMOST makes me want to pursue an advanced degree so that I could do a thesis on it. (Although I know that in true Southern fashion, these things are never really discussed openly.)

I have to write a master's thesis on some topic in higher education this spring, and I want to do something like this too, but getting students to be honest about why they joined certain groups might be hard. And William & Mary is definitely not any of the schools mentioned:p

Many years ago, my mom told me that one of the girls on her dorm floor immediately left school when she got cut from the sorority where she was a multiple legacy. At Michigan State. In 1951. For some women, the sorority trumped/s the educational experience. Out of 22 women on her freshman floor, my mom was one of two to graduate. I'll leave it there, but my mom has plenty of stories about similar situations. Back in the days of the Mrs degree, this was how women connected with the "right" future husbands.

And, I'm sure some of this still occurs. My brother-in-law and his twin and his dad are all members of the same fraternity. He grew up in Alabama and his father was president of the "I'll leave the name blank but you'd all recognize the city" country club. My sister told me that he was HIGHLY impressed when he found out that my sister is a member of the sorority that is held in highest regard at his SEC alma mater and the state where he went to school.

So, I think this goes way back and it hasn't just occurred in the south. Social circles and sorority membership, along with other things, play important roles in other places, too. ;) I've always known the sorority affiliations of all my mom's friends, and it all works much the same way where I live, just not as overtly. I've said before that Jane Austen was writing about this 200 years ago.

I grew up in the same environment that momoffour is in and totally get it.

And I would hope the judgment as to which sorority one pledges would stop in environments like this. I get not wanting a loved one in a chapter that always struggles but I've known girls who pledged houses st SEC schools that were strong middle tier houses but not a "top 5" or not a deeply cherished Southern stronghold sorority. The conversation among some moms and friends was "She could have pledged X and I wish she had BUT ... (fill in the blank, said with a sigh). Not all moms, of course but some.

And it's not much different re: judgment and perception in other areas like getting into an elite private school vs public university. Doesn't mean you're a better person, perhaps you simply wanted a difference environment or experience.

I think that's why the influx of out-of-state students at these big, competitive schools with entrenched tier systems like Ole Miss and Alabama is such a good thing. These students aren't from that area and didn't grow up hearing "XYZ or bust", so they're much more likely to happily accept a bid from a chapter some in-state girls might turn their heads up at.

Exactly.

What gets me is people's willingness to let it continue.

I come from a tradition where one doesn't go to school in the home state, and seldom returns to hometown after graduation; we follow careers, not geography. But excusing those who perpetuate the "XXX, YYY or ZZZ only" mentality exacerbates what I see as a problem and what apparently others see as "oh, well, that's life."

This whole discussion is reinforcing the happiness I felt when my daughter chose not to rush in Texas.

THIS. Everything Tess said times a zillion. We really are better than that, in 2017, aren't we? Apparently not, sadly, in some pockets of the USA. Sigh.

I'm so glad I went to school in California.

Yes, this.

And if one of my friends looked down on me because of where my (at present, imaginery) daughter was accepted to school or which sorority she joined, I'd tell that "friend" to go pound sand. No one needs people like that in their life.

Can't agree enough!! I'm from the northeast and was in a "competitive" sorority at an SEC school way back in the 80's. I had a wonderful experience, but I so remember how cut throat it was once I was participating in the rush process as a member. It's one of the main reasons I didn't want to stay in the south and hoped my girls wouldn't go south for college.

Fortunately they chose Big Ten schools. While momoffour desperately wanted her daughter to pledge XYZ chapters, I desperately wanted my girls to have a positive rush experience and land in a house where they felt happy and comfortable. I didn't know or care about where it fell on the spectrum of popularity.

Tons of my neighborhood friends were in sororities and several wrote recs for my daughters and I've done the same for many of them. We have NEVER had a discussion about who landed where in terms of anything but happiness and pride for any and all sororities.

I really think all this crazy stuff perpetuates in the south because of parents and alums.

At a reception, I was speaking with a dear friend of my parents whose children and grandchildren all attended Auburn and were all Greek. All the girls joined one of the most desired sororities, but one granddaughter joined a different, although equally as desirable sorority. The grandmother spoke in such hushed tones about how surprised they all were that she chose a different group. You would've thought there had been a death in the family. I was amused.

But I guess you have to be from the south to understand and not criticize. After all, we don't hide our crazy relatives in the attic; we put them in a rocker on the front porch with a glass of co'cola and a moon pie.

Oh yes we do! I have 100 of those stories!

I love this! It's that way in Texas, too.