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-   -   University of Alabama Alpha Phi Expelled for Racist Video (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=241575)

TLLK 01-17-2018 07:17 PM

University of Alabama Alpha Phi Expelled for Racist Video
 
http://www.wbrc.com/story/37283973/u...ks-made-online

Quote:

The University of Alabama and Alpha Phi International sorority are both responding after videos posted online by a student have drawn outrage.
UA President Stuart R. Bell confirms that student - Harley Barber - is no longer enrolled at the school.
In the videos initially posted to social media, Barber uses the N-word multiple times. She also references the Martin Luther King, Jr. holiday, says she is from New Jersey, and makes reference to people reporting her to her sorority because of her comments.

thetalady 01-17-2018 07:26 PM

Lost her sorority that she loved and had to leave the University... good. Disgusting behavior, but better to know how she really feels.

carnation 01-17-2018 07:32 PM

I am horrified by her apparent belief that she could come to the South and say all that.

navane 01-17-2018 07:47 PM

Unacceptable! This has got to stop! We can no longer just sit by and say "tsk tsk...that's a shame". We have to take action. Each of us. We need to raise our young people to have respect for all. I am interested in the comment that the video, "...makes reference to people reporting her to her sorority because of her comments..." So, it sounds like someone was at least trying to confront the issue.

I'm so lost on this. I grew up in a diverse city with diverse friends. I struggle to understand how people are raised to be this way.

APhi2KD 01-17-2018 09:05 PM

Don’t let the door hit you (in your “Neiman Marcus fur vest”) on the way out. You are no sister of mine.

NYCMS 01-17-2018 09:56 PM

Glad to see both the university and the sorority expel her. And boy did she just do major damage to any future job she might want - she's trouble in all caps. That video will haunt her for a long, long time.

Such is the age when everything can be put online...and stunning that young people don't realize the consequences of such.

CaliAggie 01-17-2018 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navane (Post 2451961)
Unacceptable! This has got to stop! We can no longer just sit by and say "tsk tsk...that's a shame". We have to take action. Each of us. We need to raise our young people to have respect for all. I am interested in the comment that the video, "...makes reference to people reporting her to her sorority because of her comments..." So, it sounds like someone was at least trying to confront the issue.

I'm so lost on this. I grew up in a diverse city with diverse friends. I struggle to understand how people are raised to be this way.

Yes, it was confusing at first but I believe what happened was: the student initially posted a video (the one where she's standing in front of a bathroom sink) where she drops the n-word and says she hates N's, etc. Apparently, people see the video and it is reposted and shared on social media and eventually reported to Alpha Phi and the University of Alabama. Then, instead of apologizing, she doubles-down and posts a follow-up video (the one in the car with the other girls) calling those people out for reporting her and dropping the n-word even more. Sad.

What's also sad is that she posted those videos to her "finsta" (my kid had to explain it to me), a fake Instagram account where kids post "real" and often very distasteful things to a private group of their closest friends in confidence, possibly as a joke... but it all got leaked. Not that I'm trying to concoct excuses for her -- make no mistake, the things she said and did are absolutely reprehensible and disgusting. Just saying that there are a multiple lessons to be learned here. I actually talked to my kids about being mindful of what they put on social media, even if they think it's private, temporary, or for a trusted group of friends. Internet justice is tough and swift, and it never forgets.

Incidentally, there's also a third video of Harley Barber, a very revealing phone conversation between the student and a friend after the incident blew up and went viral... and even that got leaked.

I wonder if GLO's these days have social media training for its members, similar to what scholarship athletes go through when they join a team, as part of pledge or new member education programs.

panhelrose 01-17-2018 10:19 PM

I can only speak to my experience, but my chapter has extensive social media training both in the new member process and throughout each year for the whole chapter. I find this especially important given that social media evolves so quickly, and it's important to keep up with the nuances of each platform (although the common sense of "don't be a bigot, don't post inappropriate stuff online no matter how private you think your account is" should stand regardless of platform).

That being said, I've seen a post circulating of a subsequent "finsta" account that appears to be hers, stating that her first account had been shut down and the bio also includes this slur. Granted, this could be a fake account, but her apology does not seem totally genuine to me, given the nature of the second video. Additionally, it appears that the Alabama chapter of Alpha Phi has deleted its instagram page, presumably to deal with this issue internally. This girl's actions are reprehensible, and I'm glad the international organization and the university are responding with such force.

thetalady 01-17-2018 11:02 PM

Her parents must be SO proud. Unfortunately, she probably learned this racist behavior at home. This despicable attitude isn't new for her. And she is really sorry now.... :eek:

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/in...zes_for_r.html

clemsongirl 01-17-2018 11:22 PM

Finstas are such a dumb concept anyways-when your friends all like your videos, Instagram can figure out who you are pretty quickly. Nothing you post on the internet is anonymous, no matter what you think.

Kevin 01-18-2018 12:57 PM

I'm really curious as to whether she talked like that around her sisters and if she did, how many of them didn't mind.

DGTess 01-18-2018 02:11 PM

I hope you've all read Fraternity Man's posting on this.

What if it hadn't been shared?

At what point would Alpha Phi (or any other group) or the local chapter realize a sister they had pledged and initiated was so clearly racist?

It's all well and good to have social-media training, and to teach women (and men) what not to share, but we seem to be ignoring what not to DO.

Kevin 01-18-2018 02:16 PM

It starts and ends with bystander intervention. Members have to feel empowered to say something when they see something wrong. Greek organizations are some of the worst when it comes to bystander intervention because we are as a rule so prone to groupthink type behaviors where no one will speak up because they are afraid to be found to be less a part of the group. One can only imagine how that dynamic is magnified in a place like Alabama where I'm sure new members who are lucky enough to find a home (and most of them know how lucky they are) are probably pretty determined to keep their heads down and not rock the boat until initiation.

APhi2KD 01-18-2018 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGTess (Post 2452004)
I hope you've all read Fraternity Man's posting on this.

I have and wholeheartedly disagree with the following:
Quote:

It’s not her behavior we are disgusted with, it’s the audacity she demonstrated to be racist in a public forum.
That’s crap. I dont want my organization moving backward, regardless if anyone knows!

And...this same chapter came under fire for their recruitment video which was lacking diversity even for Ala-freakin-Bama. They are not alone. Many, many AΦ chapters have been obviously recruiting a certain look (and yes, I’m aware that many, many other GLOs also do), but this needs to be a wake up call to Nationals. The measure of a woman is not the length of her hair or her dress size. And certainly not the number of overpriced fur vests in her closet.

If you recruit girls based on their # of followers, etc., you ARE going to get your name out there, but it’s going to turn around and bite you. I’m tired of seeing chapters/members that flood Instagram with trashy Kardashian-esque posts. I know there are wonderful, quality women in each chapter. But the over-sharing girls of Bama, Boulder, Arizona State, etc. make me cringe. But hey, what do I know. It’s obviously selling to the masses.

NinjaPoodle 01-18-2018 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliAggie (Post 2451966)
......... but it all got leaked. .....

Incidentally, there's also a third video of Harley Barber, a very revealing phone conversation between the student and a friend after the incident blew up and went viral... and even that got leaked.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bpNEetMNMs


.

And another one of her...mouth. Fun times.

The comments on:
APhi twitter
GR<--- fun

And found this
https://twitter.com/search?q=harley%...Video&src=tyah

Oye. The Internet is forever.

aephi alum 01-18-2018 11:17 PM

Disgusting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2451959)
I am horrified by her apparent belief that she could come to the South and say all that.

As am I.

Social media wasn't a thing when I was in college. The Web was in its infancy. (Hell, I wrote my chapter's first website, which went online before IBM's first stab at a website went live.) But, even then, most people knew better than to say such disgusting things - and, for those who didn't know better, word got out.

These days, fuggedaboutit. If you post something disgusting online, odds are it will go viral and bite you in the ... buttockal region.

NYCMS 01-19-2018 11:16 AM

Quote:

Oye. The Internet is forever.
Yep and given the racist video and this latest video posted on Twitter (bragging about her favorite sexual activity for those who didn't see it) this girl has killed any career opportunities, at least for many, many years. Companies do a social media search on applicants all the time and even a lot of party pictures can harm one's chances.

When will these kids learn that social media is NOT their friend? I'm amazed at how many still post stuff (like pictures where they're clearly drunk) without any thought of the consequences. I get that they're college kids and at that age, you're not thinking logically sometimes, but still...

AZTheta 01-19-2018 01:03 PM

I have given this a lot of thought since the story broke. I watched all the videos. I read the Fraternity Man's opinion.

Here's what it comes to for me:

1) there but for the grace of God go all of us. Alpha Phi was in the hot seat this week. I hold no ill will towards any organization for the actions of a single member.

2) Agree with Kevin re: bystander behavior. Have witnessed it in the chapter I advised. It's quite a culture, actually. There are people who do presentations on this topic. Not sure of the efficacy of talking to anyone. To me, it's innate: I speak up when I see wrongdoing. Consequences be damned. However, the majority of people don't have my "alpha" personality. I don't need nor seek approval from outside. And I've watched the viciousness with which people can turn on someone who does "speak up" or is a "whistleblower" even when the concerns are valid. Yes I have a few personal examples, and I weathered the storm (because as I already wrote, IDGAF what other people think or say!). I love the Lincoln quote which starts "I do the very best I know how". Google it. It's a great quote.

3) Good people don't stay silent when faced with evil.

4) All I can do is focus on where I can make a difference. That young woman is going to suffer mightily throughout the decades for her behavior (which, based on the videos I watched, isn't a random one-time occurrence, but, rather, reflects her fundamental moral code and beliefs). I'm really not sure how she will ever make this right with anyone. It's not up to me to say. My heart hurts for the pain her words caused to countless people. I will do my best to make a difference today when the opportunity arises. That's all I can do.

5) I am grateful every day for the support we offer one another. It is best to hold hands when we are in scary places. And in not so scary places either.

DGTess 01-19-2018 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCMS (Post 2452080)
Yep and given the racist video and this latest video posted on Twitter (bragging about her favorite sexual activity for those who didn't see it) this girl has killed any career opportunities, at least for many, many years. Companies do a social media search on applicants all the time and even a lot of party pictures can harm one's chances.

When will these kids learn that social media is NOT their friend? I'm amazed at how many still post stuff (like pictures where they're clearly drunk) without any thought of the consequences. I get that they're college kids and at that age, you're not thinking logically sometimes, but still...


You hit on one of the biggies.

When will we quit thinking of them as "kids" and EXPECT them to act as young adults. Childhood now apparently doesn't end until somewhere around 25.

I've been preaching 'til I'm blue in the face that I don't want my organization's collegians thought of as "girls" but as "women".

NinjaPoodle 01-19-2018 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCMS (Post 2452080)
Yep and given the racist video and this latest video posted on Twitter (bragging about her favorite sexual activity for those who didn't see it) this girl has killed any career opportunities, at least for many, many years. Companies do a social media search on applicants all the time and even a lot of party pictures can harm one's chances.

When will these kids learn that social media is NOT their friend? I'm amazed at how many still post stuff (like pictures where they're clearly drunk) without any thought of the consequences. I get that they're college kids and at that age, you're not thinking logically sometimes, but still...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZTheta (Post 2452089)
I have given this a lot of thought since the story broke. I watched all the videos. I read the Fraternity Man's opinion.

Here's what it comes to for me:

1) there but for the grace of God go all of us. Alpha Phi was in the hot seat this week. I hold no ill will towards any organization for the actions of a single member.

2) Agree with Kevin re: bystander behavior. Have witnessed it in the chapter I advised. It's quite a culture, actually. There are people who do presentations on this topic. Not sure of the efficacy of talking to anyone. To me, it's innate: I speak up when I see wrongdoing. Consequences be damned. However, the majority of people don't have my "alpha" personality. I don't need nor seek approval from outside. And I've watched the viciousness with which people can turn on someone who does "speak up" or is a "whistleblower" even when the concerns are valid. Yes I have a few personal examples, and I weathered the storm (because as I already wrote, IDGAF what other people think or say!). I love the Lincoln quote which starts "I do the very best I know how". Google it. It's a great quote.

3) Good people don't stay silent when faced with evil.

4) All I can do is focus on where I can make a difference. That young woman is going to suffer mightily throughout the decades for her behavior (which, based on the videos I watched, isn't a random one-time occurrence, but, rather, reflects her fundamental moral code and beliefs). I'm really not sure how she will ever make this right with anyone. It's not up to me to say. My heart hurts for the pain her words caused to countless people. I will do my best to make a difference today when the opportunity arises. That's all I can do.

5) I am grateful every day for the support we offer one another. It is best to hold hands when we are in scary places. And in not so scary places either.


All of this.

IndianaSigKap 01-19-2018 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clemsongirl (Post 2451973)
Finstas are such a dumb concept anyways-when your friends all like your videos, Instagram can figure out who you are pretty quickly. Nothing you post on the internet is anonymous, no matter what you think.

If you have to have a finsta to post something, it's obvious you don't want people to know about therefore you know something is wrong with your post. Then don't post it. What a concept.

ASTalumna06 01-19-2018 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZTheta (Post 2452089)

2) Agree with Kevin re: bystander behavior. Have witnessed it in the chapter I advised. It's quite a culture, actually. There are people who do presentations on this topic. Not sure of the efficacy of talking to anyone. To me, it's innate: I speak up when I see wrongdoing. Consequences be damned. However, the majority of people don't have my "alpha" personality. I don't need nor seek approval from outside. And I've watched the viciousness with which people can turn on someone who does "speak up" or is a "whistleblower" even when the concerns are valid. Yes I have a few personal examples, and I weathered the storm (because as I already wrote, IDGAF what other people think or say!). I love the Lincoln quote which starts "I do the very best I know how". Google it. It's a great quote.

3) Good people don't stay silent when faced with evil.

I agree with both you and Kevin and believe that bystander intervention is a major issue.

However, I think it can be especially challenging in this day and age to speak up. It's difficult enough potentially becoming the outcast (or worse) within your organization, but imagine the pressure when you could potentially bring down the entire Greek system at your school and ruin your org's reputation on a national level. I think that social media has a huge effect on this; it drags out the issue beyond a short newspaper article, and students don't want to be on the receiving end of threats. I know of a sorority woman who reported that she was sexually assaulted by a member of a fraternity, and she was bullied mercilessly online by her sisters, brothers of the fraternity, and others for months on end.

Nowadays, these things can get so out of hand that a simple brushing off of one's shoulders isn't enough.

BUDelta4Life 01-19-2018 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2452119)
I agree with both you and Kevin and believe that bystander intervention is a major issue.

However, I think it can be especially challenging in this day and age to speak up. It's difficult enough potentially becoming the outcast (or worse) within your organization, but imagine the pressure when you could potentially bring down the entire Greek system at your school and ruin your org's reputation on a national level. I think that social media has a huge effect on this; it drags out the issue beyond a short newspaper article, and students don't want to be on the receiving end of threats. I know of a sorority woman who reported that she was sexually assaulted by a member of a fraternity, and she was bullied mercilessly online by her sisters, brothers of the fraternity, and others for months on end.

Nowadays, these things can get so out of hand that a simple brushing off of one's shoulders simply isn't enough.

Social media exacerbates all of this. Education and training has to start before they even arrive at college. My sister and I are constantly pounding it into my niece and nephew's heads that what they post can and will come back to haunt them. They both have hopes of eventually being D1 athletes, so it's especially important for them to be aware. I teach middle schoolers. Every day, I'm appalled by the taunting, bullying and flat-out inappropriate stuff they'll post to each other with no parental intervention. We have a large population of parents who think they have no right to monitor what their 14 year olds are posting online - kids whose frontal lobes aren't close to being developed and need guidance about how to do the right thing. I have parents tell me they "just can't" take their kids' phones out of their bedrooms at night. I always reply, "Well, that's the biggest time they're posting all this crap - late at night when you're not paying attention." I've had parents just look at me, helpless. I want to yell, "You pay for that phone. You own it; not your child. Be an adult."

Training and education should be a continuous part of every GLO's programming. Additionally, as others have mentioned, too many chapters have a culture of seeing how many members they can gain with thousands of Instagram followers instead of recruiting for quality. It should be more important to be a good person who genuinely respects all cultures, ethnicities and sexual orientations rather than someone who can be the chapter's controversial celebrity. I honestly can't even imagine what gets said sometimes in a culture like Alabama's. While the university has been recently committed to improving racial relations on campus and recognizes it has far to go, the historic culture combined with being in the deep South can often cause the worst of the worse to rise to the top. My brother in law coaches high school girls in elite club soccer and sends all of them on to play college soccer. He had a player a few years ago who went to Alabama but elected to transfer to another school and soccer program after a year because she told him she simply couldn't handle the racial slurs she heard on a daily basis anymore. (Not slurs directed toward her but simply language that was part of so many students' everyday conversation.) Having grown up in the West in a very diverse population in her school, community and teammates, she experienced culture shock, and she decided it hurt her humanity too much to be immersed in it. Before anyone from Alabama flames me, I know not everyone is like that, and as I said, the university is trying to change. But incidents that go viral nationally like Ms. Barber's video don't do much to change the perception of both the university and the GLOs there. It's sad because I personally know young women who are in chapters at Alabama and doing wonderful things for their philanthropies and their communities.

naraht 01-20-2018 04:56 AM

On another board that I was on, they expressed surprise/admiration that the Alpha Phi national board was able to complete revoke Ms. Barber's membership in only 48 hours. Note this is *not* something that my Fraternity (Alpha Phi Omega) can do. The board can vote to suspend a brother's membership, but only the convention (every two years) may fully revoke it.

KSUViolet06 01-20-2018 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naraht (Post 2452141)
On another board that I was on, they expressed surprise/admiration that the Alpha Phi national board was able to complete revoke Ms. Barber's membership in only 48 hours. Note this is *not* something that my Fraternity (Alpha Phi Omega) can do. The board can vote to suspend a brother's membership, but only the convention (every two years) may fully revoke it.



It's actually not unique to Alpha Phi.

Kevin 01-20-2018 07:28 AM

Also, a phone call from the home office to the chapter to inform them to expel a certain member "or else" usually has the intended effect.

KSUViolet06 01-20-2018 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2452006)
It starts and ends with bystander intervention. Members have to feel empowered to say something when they see something wrong. Greek organizations are some of the worst when it comes to bystander intervention because we are as a rule so prone to groupthink type behaviors where no one will speak up because they are afraid to be found to be less a part of the group. One can only imagine how that dynamic is magnified in a place like Alabama where I'm sure new members who are lucky enough to find a home (and most of them know how lucky they are) are probably pretty determined to keep their heads down and not rock the boat until initiation.

This part.

33girl 01-20-2018 11:53 AM

I'm familiar with the town Ms Barber is from and although above the Mason-Dixon it may be, it most certainly is not a hub of diversity. So I don't think you can blame this on Alabama or its culture. She was a racist before she got there.

NYCMS 01-20-2018 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2452193)
I'm familiar with the town Ms Barber is from and although above the Mason-Dixon it may be, it most certainly is not a hub of diversity. So I don't think you can blame this on Alabama or its culture. She was a racist before she got there.

Bingo. She was a freshman - one whole semester in the Deep South.

granipc 01-22-2018 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaPoodle (Post 2452044)
And another one of her...mouth. Fun times.

The comments on:
APhi twitter
GR<--- fun

And found this
https://twitter.com/search?q=harley%...Video&src=tyah

Oye. The Internet is forever.

I.CANNOT.EVEN. That twitter video... what a gem she is! :eek:

DGTess 01-22-2018 11:29 AM

I finally looked at one of the videos. I do hope her chapter also identifies the women who were with her, agreeing and sharing.

Kevin 01-22-2018 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGTess (Post 2452464)
I finally looked at one of the videos. I do hope her chapter also identifies the women who were with her, agreeing and sharing.

This is a tough one because in my experience, NPC groups are extremely private about how they handle internal discipline and internal investigations. If I was advising this group, I'd be focused on how this individual made it all the way through the new member process without her obvious race issues being dealt with or brought to anyone's attention.

The finsta posts could not possibly have been the first time she willy nilly dropped n bombs which leads one to speculate, not unreasonably, I think, that this kind of language and attitude is tolerated within this chapter.

DGTess 01-22-2018 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2452465)
This is a tough one because in my experience, NPC groups are extremely private about how they handle internal discipline and internal investigations. If I was advising this group, I'd be focused on how this individual made it all the way through the new member process without her obvious race issues being dealt with or brought to anyone's attention.

The finsta posts could not possibly have been the first time she willy nilly dropped n bombs which leads one to speculate, not unreasonably, I think, that this kind of language and attitude is tolerated within this chapter.

Agree, Kevin - it's not that I want to know about the other women agreeing, egging her on, etc. It does make me realize she is not a loner in this chapter, and the first step to cleaning the chapter up would be to identify the roots. She's not a single root.

Kevin 01-23-2018 08:21 AM

I suspect that we've heard all we will ever hear from Alabama Alpha Phi on the subject. I suppose if they can get away with that without having to answer to any protesters or activists on campus, that probably tells us a lot about that particular campus.

celebcj 01-23-2018 09:25 AM

I browsed that other site out of curiosity, and word on the street says the other girls are not Alpha Phi: one is a different NPC sorority, and one is not Greek.

Also the APhi girls seem to be taking up the "she was a loner, we didn't know her" defense.

PhilTau 01-23-2018 02:59 PM

We have discussed this type of stuff before:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...highlight=word


Long, long ago, southerners constantly griped about Yankees coming down to the south and acting crass. Those memories crossed my mind after watching about 20 seconds of the video of this stupid rant.

Please help me out here. I can't really tell if she was allegedly dismissed from her sorority only for using the "n-word" OR if she was dismissed as a result of using the "n-word" plus all the other crass language she spewed forth (e.g., generally "conduct unbecoming of a * * *").

Being Alabama, I'd bet there are plenty of other people in attendance at that school who think the same way, but were raised in polite southern culture where those ugly thoughts are expressed only in a voting booth.

APhi2KD 01-23-2018 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilTau (Post 2452529)
Please help me out here. I can't really tell if she was allegedly dismissed from her sorority only for using the "n-word" OR if she was dismissed as a result of using the "n-word" plus all the other crass language she spewed forth (e.g., generally "conduct unbecoming of a * * *").

Hopefully both!
Seriously not sure how she made it through the whole pledge process without her chapter realizing what she really was, but since the new member period is only a few weeks long now, that could be part of the issue.

APhi4Ever 01-24-2018 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by APhi2KD (Post 2452532)
Hopefully both!
Seriously not sure how she made it through the whole pledge process without her chapter realizing what she really was, but since the new member period is only a few weeks long now, that could be part of the issue.

It’s sad. I work with many of our chapters and the new member period is too short in my opinion.

NYCMS 01-24-2018 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by APhi2KD (Post 2452532)
Seriously not sure how she made it through the whole pledge process without her chapter realizing what she really was, but since the new member period is only a few weeks long now, that could be part of the issue.

This is the issue that I have with initiation happening so fast. You don't really know girls unless they're girls many actives already knew from high school (even then you never know how girls can let loose once on their own - I've seen that happen), but particularly in cases like this one where it seems that no-one knew this girl pre-pledging. Hard to vet someone like this, even if she had recs.

I also think when you had to work to be initiated - making your grades, learning about the sorority, getting to know your sisters - attaining membership was a richer experience. Goes back to you can't appreciate something in the same way when it's given to you. And being initiated so quickly feels like girls are "given" membership. I can't imagine being initiated that fast - pledgeship was so special, bonding with my pledge sisters while also getting to know the actives and our sorority. And that's not to say that actives initiated quickly don't appreciate their sorority - they do, but I think delayed initiation had many merits.

Delayed initiation was also protection. I knew a girl from my dorm who went wild after pledging her sorority...dancing on tabletops at frat parties, sleeping with guy after guy, getting sloppy drunk at every party....it was bad. She was de-pledged in short order. And if you met her under 'regular circumstances' you would be charmed. Like her former sorority was.

Kevin 01-24-2018 08:00 AM

It makes you question national priorities. Are national organizations about shorter pledge periods to maximize initiation fees paid or are they about quality brotherhood/sisterhood? I know that's a simplistic way of laying things out, but I would argue there's a correlation between a challenging new member process (not one involving hazing [but let's be honest, things which according to the FIPG are "hazing" are not hazing as described in any criminal statutes]) and members getting out of the organization the things they joined for.


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