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-   -   What to tell overconfident PNMs (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=87932)

ErinIsBadNews 06-21-2007 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg (Post 1471161)
I know that multiple NPC orgs have a spot on the form for recs to check whether the PNM is recommended. It is totally possible to write a "negative rec" if you check that the PNM is not recommended. Why concentrate on the positive if the PNM is someone you wouldn't want for a sister?

Really? I had no idea! Some people like to look on the bright side of things, personally, I'd rather no the truth.

DeltaBetaBaby 06-21-2007 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinIsBadNews (Post 1471187)
Really? I had no idea! Some people like to look on the bright side of things, personally, I'd rather no the truth.

The Phi Mu rec form is available on the private side of the website. It should answer your question.

chitownxo 06-21-2007 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueBlueKappa (Post 1471031)
Can you please make a recruitment thread for this girl??? That's one recruitment story I'd love to read!

I'm planning on it. It should keep me amused come September.

BetteDavisEyes 06-21-2007 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phimuteach (Post 1471180)
Speaking of which......I'd really like to write a no-rec for the person described above. Though I have a feeling some of my sisters have done this already.


I believe that 2 is better than 1.

UGAalum94 06-21-2007 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes (Post 1471314)
I believe that 2 is better than 1.

Are you all sure enough of all the details that you're really doing this?

ErinIsBadNews 06-21-2007 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 1471224)
The Phi Mu rec form is available on the private side of the website. It should answer your question.

Woo! Thanks! :D

AlexMack 06-21-2007 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga (Post 1471319)
Are you all sure enough of all the details that you're really doing this?

Yes.

BuckeyeTriDelta 06-21-2007 11:18 PM

I would if I knew the details (not that I'm asking for any). I'm trying to be mean or anything, but if she was wearing Tri Delta letters without being a member it would make me upset. Even after she has been told by people that this is not appropriate and about how the whole recruitment process works, she continues to "perp." I really don't have tolerance for that.

BetteDavisEyes 06-21-2007 11:25 PM

I'll PM you.

Phimuteach 06-22-2007 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes (Post 1471314)
I believe that 2 is better than 1.

If someone PMs me the details, I'll put one in. As of right now, I know the gist of the story, but not enough to write one ;).

NUBlue&Blue 06-23-2007 12:53 AM

I think that I said this before, but on one of my daughter's future college facebook groups, one girl actually posted all the stereotypes of the sororities (as told to her by her boyfriend or brother or something). They have another group about going greek and many many girls have said "I'm rushing ABC" or "I'm looking at ABC and XYZ because they're supposed to be the best". I am thinking "shut up or you'll be GDI". And then there are the Facebook photos open for all the world (or anybody in your network) to see. For pete's sake, you don't have to take 60 pictures and post ALL of them everytime you get into a car or go to a party with your friends. I think that so many kids just always get everything they want that they can't imagine that they wouldn't be the one doing the choosing.

My daughter has so many friends going to UGA--I just pray that we do not have another disappointing year. I have tried to talk to their mothers about getting the recs together, not getting your heart set on a certain sorority before you even get there, etc. and these girls are very aware of what happened last year, but I don't think they really grasp what it is going to be like.

One thing they need to KNOW is that "mutual selection" is not quite as mutual as they imagine. I think most of them believe they are in the power position, when it most definitely is the opposite.

KSUViolet06 06-23-2007 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NUBlue&Blue (Post 1472118)
One thing they need to KNOW is that "mutual selection" is not quite as mutual as they imagine. I think most of them believe they are in the power position, when it most definitely is the opposite.

I agree.

Alot of PNMs think that recruitment is "choosing a sorority." It's not. I think there'd be fewer overconfident (and subsequently disappointed) girls in recruitment if they truly understood how recruitment worked.

carnation 06-23-2007 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NUBlue&Blue (Post 1472118)
I think that I said this before, but on one of my daughter's future college facebook groups, one girl actually posted all the stereotypes of the sororities (as told to her by her boyfriend or brother or something). They have another group about going greek and many many girls have said "I'm rushing ABC" or "I'm looking at ABC and XYZ because they're supposed to be the best". I am thinking "shut up or you'll be GDI". And then there are the Facebook photos open for all the world (or anybody in your network) to see. For pete's sake, you don't have to take 60 pictures and post ALL of them everytime you get into a car or go to a party with your friends. I think that so many kids just always get everything they want that they can't imagine that they wouldn't be the one doing the choosing.

My daughter has so many friends going to UGA--I just pray that we do not have another disappointing year. I have tried to talk to their mothers about getting the recs together, not getting your heart set on a certain sorority before you even get there, etc. and these girls are very aware of what happened last year, but I don't think they really grasp what it is going to be like.

One thing they need to KNOW is that "mutual selection" is not quite as mutual as they imagine. I think most of them believe they are in the power position, when it most definitely is the opposite.

WHAT SHE SAID!!!!

ZTAngel 06-23-2007 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes (Post 1471351)
I'll PM you.

Can you PM me with the details too?

UGAalum94 06-23-2007 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation (Post 1472192)
WHAT SHE SAID!!!!

Oh yeah!

exlurker 06-23-2007 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NUBlue&Blue (Post 1472118)
. . . They have another [facebook] group about going greek and many many girls have said "I'm rushing ABC" or "I'm looking at ABC and XYZ because they're supposed to be the best". . . .

My daughter has so many friends going to UGA--I just pray that we do not have another disappointing year. I have tried to talk to their mothers about getting the recs together, not getting your heart set on a certain sorority before you even get there, etc. and these girls are very aware of what happened last year, but I don't think they really grasp what it is going to be like.

One thing they need to KNOW is that "mutual selection" is not quite as mutual as they imagine. I think most of them believe they are in the power position, when it most definitely is the opposite.

Oh man. It seems to me that young women who say on facebook, etc. -- for all the world to see -- that "I'm rushing ABC" or "I'm looking at ABC and XYZ because they're supposed to be the best" are setting themselves up. Wouldn't it be embarrassing after publicly saying that to end up bidless or in what the woman has essentially labeled a "lesser" sororrity?

Another thing: what about current sorority actives who stumble across those declarations? Could that information just make it easier to cut someone? I mean, if a chapter absolutely has to make heavy or even moderate cuts due to release figure rules, wouldn't it be pretty simple to say "she's only interested in ..." and give her an early "buh-bye"?

UGAalum94 06-23-2007 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exlurker (Post 1472373)
Oh man. It seems to me that young women who say on facebook, etc. -- for all the world to see -- that "I'm rushing ABC" or "I'm looking at ABC and XYZ because they're supposed to be the best" are setting themselves up. Wouldn't it be embarrassing after publicly saying that to end up bidless or in what the woman has essentially labeled a "lesser" sororrity?

Another thing: what about current sorority actives who stumble across those declarations? Could that information just make it easier to cut someone? I mean, if a chapter absolutely has to make heavy or even moderate cuts due to release figure rules, wouldn't it be pretty simple to say "she's only interested in ..." and give her an early "buh-bye"?

Absolutely. It's hard to figure out how having a public facebook profile and comments could help a girl in any way, and it has a lot of power to hurt her recruitment.

ClassicBeauty 06-23-2007 05:34 PM

Ugh, when I went to orientation this summer, there was this girl who just did not know when to shut up. She came over to us when we were eating lunch, introduced herself, and then asked us if we were going to rush (almost every incoming freshman girl is I think). It should have stopped there, but no it didn't. She then preceeded to tell us EVERY stereotype about every sorority on campus and then told us she was only going to accept a bid from ABC and DEF because they were the best and had mixers with the best fraternaties. We seriously just sat there staring at her in disbelief in an awkward. Did she seriously just say that? I really didn't want to hear the stereotypes before I went into recruitment. I'm like still pissed at her for saying that.

KSUViolet06 06-23-2007 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exlurker (Post 1472373)

Another thing: what about current sorority actives who stumble across those declarations? Could that information just make it easier to cut someone? I mean, if a chapter absolutely has to make heavy or even moderate cuts due to release figure rules, wouldn't it be pretty simple to say "she's only interested in ..." and give her an early "buh-bye"?

Yep, and that's what happens. We use the new RFM so the sororities don't have room for girls that they KNOW don't want to be there.

Here's a little story from my last recruitment about how things like Facebook & MySpace can affect recruitment:

There was a girl who publicly posted a MySpace blog about Sorority Info Night (pre rush event) in which she said she would "only join AB because they're the only one worth being in" and "the other 6 are loser ones."

When she met her Rho Chi, they became MySpace friends. The PX called her a few days before recruitment because she had seen this blog and she wanted to tell her that she should take it down or make it private because it could affect her recruitment if a sorority member saw it. She ignored her and kept it up anyway, figuring the PX was just exaggerating.

She visited all sororities on the first day of recruitment like everyone else. She told her PX that the blog didn't matter because "she was dropping everybody but AB the next day." Sometime between Sorority Info Night and the end of day 1, a sorority member did see it and we all know how small the sorority world is. Word travels fast and we all had seen it before long.

Well, the next day she shows up for Philanthropy Party (day 2) thinking she'd been invited back to all 7 like everyone else. Surprise! She was dropped by the 6 sororities she said were "for losers."

She was stunned. She told her PX that "SHE was supposed to be cutting THEM." Her PX told her that she was still invited to one chapter, AB (the only one she said anything good about).

So the girl was like "whatever, I only wanted to join AB anyway." Anyone using the new RFM knows that the biggest groups make the biggest cuts. She went to only AB that day, thinking everything was cool and she was going to get what she said in her blog that she wanted. Wrong! AB dropped her after that round and she was released from recruitment!

So this arrogant girl who thought she was only good enough for one sorority, ended up getting released by everyone after 2nd round. She was very upset, but her Rho Chi told her that she shouldn't have been so public with her opinions and should've been more open minded. She was so upset that she transfered to a new school after one semester.

Moral of the story: Be cautious of what you put out there, because you could ruin recruitment for yourself. Once you put things like this out there, it's public knowledge and you never know who could see it. You also never know who could tell someone else about it.

NUBlue&Blue 06-23-2007 07:31 PM

Okay, everybody hold hands and repeat.....

DISCRETION IS THE KEY...DISCRETION IS THE KEY.....DISCRETION IS THE KEY.

If you don't know what that means, then how about...SHUT YOUR MOUTH! :D

dgdramadawg 06-23-2007 08:43 PM

Regarding stupid things posted on the internet: I remember a girl who one year posted all of her rankings and reasons for them on an online journal. It's amazing how fast word can spread between houses when something like that gets found, and NOBODY wants a girl who says rude things about specific houses in a public forum because it's just bad form.

I mean, I guess I can sympathize with the girls who don't know better than to say who their favorites are because maybe no one ever taught them the motto NUBlue&Blue just posted above... but the ones who can't shut up with the negative stuff about the other houses? That's not something they should have to be told not to do.

Soliloquy 06-24-2007 02:44 PM

Sometimes I wish I could find dirt like that regarding the chapters at my school.

Why?

Because it would be just so darn amusing to see how misled the online poster is.

Then the rational side of me hopes I never will find such comments. At least I know how to tell the difference between truth and fiction, a PNM who finds the same content may not be able to do so. I just find it silly that people would shoot themselves in the foot like that, but in the process, potentially affect others' views.

I'm doing a lot of stuff with orientation at my school and I've had to knock some girls down to earth already, then remind them that they never know who is listening.

33girl 06-24-2007 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 1472120)
I agree.

Alot of PNMs think that recruitment is "choosing a sorority." It's not. I think there'd be fewer overconfident (and subsequently disappointed) girls in recruitment if they truly understood how recruitment worked.

This is one of the reasons I dislike the term "potential new member" in place of "rushee." It makes it sound like becoming a new member is a sure thing. Rushee is someone going through the rush process, no more, no less. It's much more accurate and doesn't assume anything about your "potential."

kathykd2005 06-24-2007 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1472907)
This is one of the reasons I dislike the term "potential new member" in place of "rushee." It makes it sound like becoming a new member is a sure thing. Rushee is someone going through the rush process, no more, no less. It's much more accurate and doesn't assume anything about your "potential."

Potential just means they COULD potentially be a new member, it doesn't necessarily mean that they hold potential themselves. It's basically just telling them they are a "maybe" new member; it's not a sure thing. It would definitely be different if members of houses were telling PNMs that they have "potential," however.

33girl 06-24-2007 11:46 PM

Yeah, you'd think that - I mean every female who has the GPA and isn't Greek - including women who are graduating in 3 weeks - is a "potential new member." However, I think that including the word "member" in any context gives some women the wrong impression. I don't like calling uninitiated women/pledges new members either, but that is another thread.

kathykd2005 06-25-2007 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1472985)
Yeah, you'd think that - I mean every female who has the GPA and isn't Greek - including women who are graduating in 3 weeks - is a "potential new member." However, I think that including the word "member" in any context gives some women the wrong impression. I don't like calling uninitiated women/pledges new members either, but that is another thread.

Understandable viewpoint--I knew people that felt the same way about the term "new member," because they weren't technically members yet. I also knew people that didn't like new members to call them "sisters," because they weren't technically their sisters yet (not necessarily in my org, btw ;) ), until after initiation.

Ivygirl8985 07-06-2007 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrie435 (Post 1470000)
I was one of those over-confident PNM's during recruitment and thinking back on it now, I really wish my PX had sat me down and just been honest with us about our chances. No one ever told us much about the fact that a lot of girls don't end up where they want. They kept telling us it was a mutual selection process and giving us the numbers of women placed every year (and never really making sure we realized that WE could be one of those 2% not placed rather than the 98% who got bids)

The moment that my group of friends and I first realized that sometimes it doesnt happen perfectly is actually when one of us got that dreaded phone call after preference parties to let her know she had not recieved a bid after suiciding. That was when I finally realized that the house I wanted may not actually want me enough to put me on their top list and I prepared myself to recieve a bid from a house I wasn't too thrilled about (even if I was confident, I wasn't stupid--so I kept all the houses I would be 'comfortable' joining even if they didn't dazzle me at recruitment). Thank God I did that because I did get that bid from my 'not-top house' and I ended up being President 2 years later, served on our campus Panhel, and had a Greek experience 10x better and more successful than any other girl who went through rush with me that semester.

I could have reached that point a lot earlier and taken a little less time to get used to the idea that they may love me, but they just couldn't take me if only our PX's would have been a little more realistic and maybe even harsh with us from the start. I feel like there are so many unrealistic PNM's out there that could make it through recruitment but no one takes the time to knock them down from that high horse before they get cut hard and drop out completely. (Keep in mind I go to a northern school so it's not the "I've been bred for this chapter" mentality, it's the "I was popular in high school and know 50 members of XYZ" one).

I completely agree. Although I didn't have this experience as a PNM, I see it every year. Panhel and the RC's often try and sugar coat it and that ended up blowing up in their faces last year when we switched to a different matching system and it was very different from our old one. Lots of girls who thought they were guaranteed a spot to make it back to even the SECOND night of parties and they didn't get their top ranks. Almost all of those girls simply walked out and we lost about a fourth of the girls who could have joined a sorority on campus (even if it wasn't their first pick). I think it would have helped if the matching system had been better explained and the girls had been better warned that they might not get the house they feel they are a shoo-in for.

Ivygirl8985 07-06-2007 12:21 AM

Sorry, I just re-read that and realized most of my sentences are awful! :) Thats what happens when I just start typing!

UGAalum94 07-06-2007 12:42 AM

I agree that the official word is often wildly optimistic and that offices of Greek Life and sometimes recruitment counselors can do damage because they spread the word about what should happened in the perfect world, not what will realistically happen to a particular girl in recruitment.

Even reporting 98% placement is somewhat deceptive unless you point out that it's 98% placement for girls who are willing to join whatever groups want them when the whole shebang is over.

I don't think the schools that discuss placement rates even mention the often high number of girls who drop out because they didn't like their results. And at schools like UGA, it's a pretty big number.

ADPi Conniebama 01-21-2008 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1472907)
This is one of the reasons I dislike the term "potential new member" in place of "rushee." It makes it sound like becoming a new member is a sure thing. Rushee is someone going through the rush process, no more, no less. It's much more accurate and doesn't assume anything about your "potential."


GOOD ARGUMENT MEE TOO DITTO """"""""""""""""

Kitemom 01-21-2008 09:57 PM

Hopefully they (entering freshman) will attend some summer orientation at their college where they will see that everyone is pretty, smart, a high school athlete for several sports, was in student government and sang in the choir. I know my daughter was shocked when she came home from the camp saying most of the people were just like her. Some did more and some did less but everybody had done something. The orientation leaders were quick to point this out and say that's why you are at this school because you are smart and did something. Now find a friend in you class who was also a team captian and don't bring you letter jacket to school. (These are popular in Texas from band members to athletes)

barnard1897 01-22-2008 12:16 AM

My personal pet peeve is the inevitable set of emails I get each summer that read something like this:

Dear Mrs. President of Panhellenic and all that Good stuff:

I am going to be a freshman at University of I'm Too Good For Them that has 15 plus sororities, and I am planning to go through recruitment in the fall. I am hoping you can assist me with recommendations. I plan to rush at the following houses as they are my favorites: xyz, abc, def, and zzz. Please send recs for those houses. Thanks so much. Love and stuff, Penelope PNM.

This means I have to go through my little spiel about how we as an APH do not send recs selectively, that our reps will send recs to each house on her campus for which we have delegates, that she needs to keep an open mind and give every house a chance as joining a sorority is a great honor and each one of them can offer her an amazing experience. Then I go into my explanation (short but honest) about how every year, the girls who don't heed this advice run into difficulties, when they realize too late in the game that selectivity is better left to the houses, and that the PNM should really have given each house a better chance. There's always the story about the double legacy who thought she knew better and ended up with no bid. That part I usually leave out.

It's a constant education, isn't it? :p

FSUZeta 01-22-2008 07:34 AM

yes it is-and one that many don't heed.

33girl 01-22-2008 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnard1897 (Post 1585426)
My personal pet peeve is the inevitable set of emails I get each summer that read something like this:

Dear Mrs. President of Panhellenic and all that Good stuff:

I am going to be a freshman at University of I'm Too Good For Them that has 15 plus sororities, and I am planning to go through recruitment in the fall. I am hoping you can assist me with recommendations. I plan to rush at the following houses as they are my favorites: xyz, abc, def, and zzz. Please send recs for those houses. Thanks so much. Love and stuff, Penelope PNM.

This means I have to go through my little spiel about how we as an APH do not send recs selectively, that our reps will send recs to each house on her campus for which we have delegates, that she needs to keep an open mind and give every house a chance as joining a sorority is a great honor and each one of them can offer her an amazing experience. Then I go into my explanation (short but honest) about how every year, the girls who don't heed this advice run into difficulties, when they realize too late in the game that selectivity is better left to the houses, and that the PNM should really have given each house a better chance. There's always the story about the double legacy who thought she knew better and ended up with no bid. That part I usually leave out.

It's a constant education, isn't it? :p

I hope that her original request gets included when sent to the sororities that aren't her "favorites."

I swear, btwn GC & stories like this, sometimes I think every other girl going through rush these days is Veruca Salt. And a stupid Veruca Salt, at that.

barnard1897 01-22-2008 09:20 PM

I typically get these "my fave houses" requests from girls on deferred recruitment campuses. Indiana U. is one of these campuses. The girls attend a few informal events in the fall, shop around, and think they know what's what. I have to constantly remind them that IU is an extremely competitive Greek system with too many going through and not enough spots for everyone. AND that the houses there are all pretty strong and have something to offer.

OR, they are from a family with sorority women and they are overconfident. Two years ago, we had an unfortunate situation with a legacy of 2 NPC groups, who decided she was going to start "cutting" houses midway through recruitment at a large Greek campus.

Problem is, she was in no way outstanding or particularly outgoing, and she was riding on legacy coattails which is why she had a few courtesy invites to those 2 houses, phase after phase. She figured she was a lock at one if not both of them. To her horror, she ended up with only one pref invitation to a house that was weak and that she did not want to join--the 2 houses she had legacy ties to released her prior to preference. She was sobbing and called our APH president to say she was dropping out. We convinced her to go to her final party and finish out the process. She was encouraged to attend because frankly, it was better than sitting home all night while everyone else was at Pref, and it was courteous to go back to the one house who had invited her. To her credit, she did attend. She dropped out thereafter, but she learned some important lessons.

kddani 09-15-2009 03:05 PM

There should be an overconfident moms version as well

tld221 09-15-2009 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitownxo (Post 1470627)
One of the young ladies I work with is planning on rushing this fall (she'll be a freshman). She has spent several hours looking at sorority websites to figure out which sorority she is going to join. She's mentioned several chapters that she thinks are beneath her, as she is "blonde and petite" and is sure the top chapter will snatch her up. In fact, she's bought some t-shirts with "her" letters on them already. A couple of us have tried to tell her that's it's a mutual selection process (you may have decided you're a perfect XYZ, but that doesn't mean XYZ will agree). She just looks blankly at us and says, "But I'm blonde and petite." Sometimes you've just got let someone do what they want...and be very glad that your sorority is not at her school.

LMAO. i can't imagine anyone, regardless of age or looks, saying something so narcissistic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitownxo (Post 1470804)
Oh, I've got a great way to let her future sisters know. Another one of our co-workers is hosting a BBQ next month, and Ms. Blonde and Petite has asked if she can wear "her" letters. My friend happily agreed, and we're both planning on bringing our cameras and taking a few pictures.:)

LOL i know this post is old but thats hilarious! i SO wish i could do that to overconfident NPHC interests, but that would end their run as an interest, and potentially their social life (and cause for a good ol fashioned beatdown).

plus i'd be just as wrong for telling a GDI to wear XYZ letters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1472907)
This is one of the reasons I dislike the term "potential new member" in place of "rushee." It makes it sound like becoming a new member is a sure thing. Rushee is someone going through the rush process, no more, no less. It's much more accurate and doesn't assume anything about your "potential."

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathykd2005 (Post 1472932)
Potential just means they COULD potentially be a new member, it doesn't necessarily mean that they hold potential themselves. It's basically just telling them they are a "maybe" new member; it's not a sure thing. It would definitely be different if members of houses were telling PNMs that they have "potential," however.

again, old, but this bears repeating. the P is way more important than the NM part. just start calling your PNMs "potentials."

FSUZeta 09-15-2009 03:19 PM

speaking of which, i just got back from assisting my daughters chapter during their recruitment and heard of a mom who called panhellenic concerned that there had been a computer glitch since her daughter was only invited back to one house out of a possible 3. no, the glitch was that her daughter had blatantly let it be known that she was only interested in one specific sorority and the sororities all listened to her and all but one dropped her, AND her chosen sorority didn't invite her back. pnms, don't be this stupid.

KSUViolet06 09-15-2009 03:47 PM

In terms of PNMs who are overconfident about getting into certain chapters:

If you think you're the best fit for ABC, chances are good that EVERY OTHER PNM in your group thinks the same thing, and logically, everyone cannot be "perfect for ABC."

That's just how things work.

Also, it doesn't matter if Ally ABC who lives on your dorm floor/is in your class/you met at a fraternity house says "you'd soooo be perfect for us" and "you're sooo in."

Chances are good that alot of girls have a friend in ABC who said the SAME thing.


RhoGamma09 09-15-2009 08:09 PM

When I went through, I remember this one PNM sitting next to me, and we were all leaving the house tour party, and she goes, "WELL! I was dropped from all the other houses, so I KNOW I am coming here, I can sleep well tonight! I dont have to worry about where my bid will be!" She said this while in ear shot of a few members of the house and their faces were priceless.

Needless to say, she didnt get a bid.


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