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-   -   Beta Theta Pi pledge dies at Penn State (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=226258)

GreekOne 06-02-2017 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LXA SE285 (Post 2432998)
Does ESA allow its collegiate chapters to be coed or single-sex on a local basis, or could a guy demand to join this chapter?

A guy could ask to join the chapter. However, there is likely a membership selection process at which they could simply say that they didn't like him. It would take a bunch of guys trying to join this chapter to create a case for exclusion due to gender.

Because ESA has only been on campus since Chi O left in 2014, it is not as entrenched as Trilogy is after 8 years.

33girl 06-02-2017 03:35 PM

I feel horrible for the Piazzas, but assume of the things they ask (like the university becoming owners of all the Greek houses - this would require an enormous amount of money) are unrealistic.

Plus - I've read that his biological brother was also a Beta member a fee years ago. Is that true? If so, I question why it is never mentioned.

Kevin 06-02-2017 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2433009)
Plus - I've read that his biological brother was also a Beta member a fee years ago. Is that true? If so, I question why it is never mentioned.

Because no one wants to hear the storyline that his brother must have known about this hazing, said nothing, and was therefore complicit.

GreekOne 06-02-2017 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2433009)
the things they ask (like the university becoming owners of all the Greek houses - this would require an enormous amount of money) are unrealistic.

I have not seen a complete summary of the Board of Trustees meeting this afternoon. However, in one article that I saw is a proposal that there be a fee assessed to all Greeks (think pledge fee paid to PSU) to cover additional expenses associated with managing Greek affairs. So, it seems, they aren't concerned about these added expenses. They simply intend to pass it along to the 17% of the student body that pledges.

ASTalumna06 06-02-2017 07:34 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/US/penn-state-...ry?id=47788744

Quote:

Today, the Board of Trustees met and supported new measures proposed by the university, including: university staff members monitoring social events; the university taking control of the fraternity and sorority misconduct and adjudication process; more parent education; and permanent revocation of university recognition for any chapter involved in "hazing that involves alcohol, physical abuse, or any behavior that puts a studentís mental or physical health at risk."

The university said today it's also begun conversations about legislative initiatives, including support for a congressional proposal to expand Clery Act reporting (which requires schools that receive federal funding to distribute a public annual security report) to include hazing violations and more discussions "with state officials on ways to strengthen penalties for hazing, especially hazing that includes alcohol, and on increased statewide educational initiatives on the dangers of hazing and dangerous drinking."

Kevin 06-02-2017 07:59 PM

Getting into the legalese, but the university taking control of the fraternity and sorority misconduct and adjudication process seems like it would be a special law. Especially when groups like Trilogy are not sororities (my understanding). Pennsylvania and most other states' constitutions prohibit laws which apply only to some members of a particular class (student organizations), but not others and for which the classification is arbitrary.

If somehow NIC/NPC groups had their autonomy taken away while groups like Trilogy did not, I don't think that'll work.

clemsongirl 06-02-2017 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekOne (Post 2433003)
A guy could ask to join the chapter. However, there is likely a membership selection process at which they could simply say that they didn't like him. It would take a bunch of guys trying to join this chapter to create a case for exclusion due to gender.

Because ESA has only been on campus since Chi O left in 2014, it is not as entrenched as Trilogy is after 8 years.

From what I know of groups without single-gender social exemptions from Title IX, as long as a man completed all the requirements necessary to join I don't think they could stop him from doing so if he was determined. I know that's the case with the local music-interest sorority on my campus-their membership is all female but they would be required to take male students if they completed all other requirements. What this looks like in practice is obviously different than on paper, though.

33girl 06-03-2017 02:43 AM

I seem to remember a lot of these things being called for at Penn State multiple times over the years. I have to think that if they overstepped and infringed on groups' autonomy for things like member termination (which it sounds like they're talking about) the groups will pull up stakes and leave, which will leave the campus with even more Trilogies and ESAs.

GreekOne 06-03-2017 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2433029)
If somehow NIC/NPC groups had their autonomy taken away while groups like Trilogy did not, I don't think that'll work.

Not to mention that their proposal is directed at only IFC and Panhel. The Multicultural and NPHC chapters are not included in these restrictions. Since no NPC group was involved in the Beta tragedy, they can't say this is a result of that incident. How does a university decide that two of its Greek councils are sanctioned but two are not?? Seems that legally there are no grounds.

Kevin 06-03-2017 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2433043)
I seem to remember a lot of these things being called for at Penn State multiple times over the years. I have to think that if they overstepped and infringed on groups' autonomy for things like member termination (which it sounds like they're talking about) the groups will pull up stakes and leave, which will leave the campus with even more Trilogies and ESAs.

Rather than leaving, they'd probably just terminate their relations with the University and act as off-campus organizations which self-police. Groups such as Trilogy could still be formed by those off-campus organizations so they could participate in government and utilize school resources through proxy orgs.

ASTalumna06 06-04-2017 12:06 AM

http://onwardstate.com/2017/06/02/at...k-life-reform/

Quote:

Jim and Evelyn Piazza, the parents of student Tim Piazza who died after falling multiple times at Beta Theta Pi fraternity’s bid acceptance night, released a letter to the Board of Trustees Thursday night outlining changes they hoped to see in Penn State’s Greek life regulation during the Board’s off-cycle meeting Friday. Now, the family’s lawyer says they’re disappointed in the Board’s decisions.

“The action of the Board today was aspirational, not concrete,” attorney Tom Kline told The Daily Collegian. “There is nothing different than Feb. 4, which is the night Tim Piazza died.”

Kline criticized the Board for not imposing any specific measures about those responsible for Piazza’s death — especially the 18 former Beta Theta Pi members who were charged last month. The university has previously said these individuals will go through the student conduct process. A graduation hold was also placed on anyone who was slated to graduate at the end of the spring semester.

33girl 06-04-2017 09:45 AM

Aren't those 18 getting charged by the police? Isn't that a little bit worse than anything the student conduct board could do?

The only thing I could think of is that they are permanently expelled and can never get a Penn State degree of any kind (including branch campi).

ASTalumna06 06-04-2017 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2433145)
Aren't those 18 getting charged by the police? Isn't that a little bit worse than anything the student conduct board could do?

The only thing I could think of is that they are permanently expelled and can never get a Penn State degree of any kind (including branch campi).

I think that is what's confusing about the parents' response. Those 18 students have been criminally charged, and the school has been doing everything it can to lessen the risk to students in Greek life.

Their child died, and I'm sure it hurts even more to know that he could have been saved if just one person did the right thing and called for help. I can't even imagine what they're going through. However, there is only so much that can be done now. And nothing that's done by the school is going to bring Tim back.

The criminal justice system is working to punish those responsible. The school is taking as much action as they can. I'm not sure what else the family is looking for. I don't want to tell anyone how to grieve, but I think that their anger, sadness, and energy needs to be directed elsewhere right now.

ASTalumna06 06-05-2017 11:43 AM

Panhellenic Council responds to new Greek reforms:

http://onwardstate.com/2017/06/05/pa...k-life-reform/

shadokat 06-05-2017 02:09 PM

Her response is fantastic. I just don't know how anyone gets around what will likely be some very major changes. Penn State has to save face and make amends to this family somehow, and the easiest way to do so is to sacrifice the freedoms of their Greek system. And frankly, I can't imagine any national organization standing in the way of whatever they choose to do because that will just make them appear insensitive to the Piazzas' situation.

Nothing is going to bring Tim back, that's a given, but this system is broken. The fact that so many people saw so much of this happen and did nothing just makes me sick. And if it makes me sick, I can't imagine what their family is going through. I hope that all of these factors can come together to make Penn State's Greek system better, and I hope that it can help the commonwealth pass a good samaritan law that allows for the reporting of incidents like these without repercussion. That being said, I don't give a shit if these kids were scared of what might happen...you have to be pretty cold to let someone die over your fraternity's existence. Nobody's life is worth that.


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