Biggest Rush Mistakes at any institution

[PhiGam]

Here's the list, feel free to add on or argue against these.

1.) Wearing jean shorts (SECDomination probably sees a lot of these :D). You will not get a bid... jean shorts were [marginally] cool about 10 years ago, now they are trashy and redneck.
2.) Being overly cocky, nobody wants a pledge who thinks that they are too good to perform menial tasks, see #7
3.) One word answers. Be conversational, social skills are the most important thing that somebody can possess. The importance of this skill can not be stressed enough.
4.) Don't talk about how much you can drink or how drunk you were the other night unless a really good story comes along with it.
5.) Getting drunktaneous at rush events. Fraternities do not want people with no self control, it becomes a huge risk to pledge someone who can't control themselves.
6.) Do not hook up with girls at rush events unless they are of the highest quality and you have checked to make sure that they are not an active's girlfriend or even an active's potential girlfriend. Nothing is worse than pissing off a brother or receiving the nickname "free willy" in the first week of pledgeship.
7.) Trying too hard. You do not need to convince the brothers that you are the coolest person ever and they should initiate you on the spot. Be yourself and if you are a fit in that particular organization then you will receive a bid. Have faith in the fraternity, they have been doing this way longer than you.
8.) Name dropping. Goes in line with trying too hard. If you are well connected and friends with a lot of the actives then the brothers will tell the people on bid team this, you don't need to mention it.
9.) Spending less than 45 minutes at a given house. If you want a bid then you have to show the brothers that you're serious. Spend time at the house getting to know people, even if you don't pledge there you can make connections that last for a while. (I get free pizza because of somebody I met in another fraternity during rush, we really hit it off). Meet every brother that you can, the more, the better.
10.) Dress nicely. Avoid hoodies, sandals with socks, etc. Business casual is the best way to go, collared shirt and pants or khaki shorts in warm weather. In the south avoid muscle tees and cargo shorts.
11.) Do not expect a bid just because you're a legacy or know a few guys in the house. Act as if you really want a big and are unsure if you're getting one.

Tips to impress, now that you know what to avoid doing, here are a few pointers that may get you bonus points.
1.) Bring attractive girls with you. This is the absolute best way to get attention and respect from the actives. Find the best looking girls that you know from high school or whatever and bring them with you when you rush.
2.) Go to the post-rush events (if they have them) AND show that you are socially adept. The most important quality in pledges (and arguably in life) is the ability to socialize with everyone (brothers, girls, alumni, parents, etc.)
3.) Have a lot of knowledge and the ability to carry on conversations.
4.) Use manners. If you are offered food, take it. Hold the door for women and don't swear with any women in earshot, basic things that your mother has been teaching you since you were little.
5.) Mention to whomever is talking to you what in particular you like about their fraternity (i.e. "I notice you won intramurals last year; that's great because I like to be on a winning team and I can play ____")

The few things in italics may not apply to you, the rest of these apply to everybody.

[Leslie Anne]

OMG! You're killing me. I'm laughing so hard right now my stomach is aching!

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race”

Keeping chuggin' along, PhiGam.


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D

[violetpretty]

4.) Use manners. If you are offered food, take it. Hold the door for women and don't swear with any women in earshot, basic things that your mother has been teaching you since you were little.


:rolleyes:

[Firehouse]

Ha! Great idea; this is a fun list.
I'd say:
1. khakis and a polo or white button-down is appropriate anywhere on any campus for rush.
2. Under tips to impress, mention to whomever is talking to you what in particular you like about their fraternity (i.e. "I notice you won intramurals last year; that's great because I like to be on a winning team and I can play ____")

[kathykd2005]

OMG! You're killing me. I'm laughing so hard right now my stomach is aching!

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race”

Keeping chuggin' along, PhiGam.


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D

O dear God. :rolleyes:

[gtdxeric]

6.) Do not hook up with girls at rush events unless they are of the highest quality and you have checked to make sure that they are not an active's girlfriend or even an active's potential girlfriend. Nothing is worse than pissing off a brother or receiving the nickname "free willy" in the first week of pledgeship.

I'd go beyond that with respect to women at rush. Because there are (typically) girls at rush, brothers of the fraternity you're rushing will usually observe your interactions with these girls. If you creep the girls out, that's bad. If you hit on every girl who will talk to you, (including an active's girlfriend, even?) that can come off as negative. If you blow off and are rude to the girls because you're trying really really hard to get a bid, that's bad.

I'd stick with being respectful and making friendly conversation at rush events. There's plenty of time for... other types of interaction later.

[gtdxeric]

OMG! You're killing me. I'm laughing so hard right now my stomach is aching!


Not to say that PhiGam has everything right or that I agree with him 100%, but this is the Fraternity Recruitment forum. Men don't typically come into the Sorority Recruitment forum and criticize Panhellenic Recruitment, so I think that some measure of restraint would be in order here. Just like I'll never really understand Panhellenic Recruitment, no woman will ever fully understand IFC/NIC rush. If someone comes in here saying ridiculous things, please at least let the men have a chance to respond before you blast.

[PhiGam]

:rolleyes:
What the hell is wrong with that?

[PhiGam]

Ha! Great idea; this is a fun list.
I'd say:
1. khakis and a polo or white button-down is appropriate anywhere on any campus for rush.
2. Under tips to impress, mention to whomever is talking to you what in particular you like about their fraternity (i.e. "I notice you won intramurals last year; that's great because I like to be on a winning team and I can play ____")
The dress code thing didn't go over well in the last thread...

[PhiGam]

OMG! You're killing me. I'm laughing so hard right now my stomach is aching!

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race”

Keeping chuggin' along, PhiGam.


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D
Calvin Coolidge

[4est]

That's actually surprisingly helpful to a someone who plans on rush at spring semester... except the jean shorts thing... kinda figured that one

[Leslie Anne]

Not to say that PhiGam has everything right or that I agree with him 100%, but this is the Fraternity Recruitment forum. Men don't typically come into the Sorority Recruitment forum and criticize Panhellenic Recruitment, so I think that some measure of restraint would be in order here.

I'm not critisizing Fraternity Recruitment. I'm laughing at the absurdity of PhiGam.


Calvin Coolidge

No! Really? I had absolutely NO idea. :rolleyes:

[AlphaFrog]

What the hell is wrong with that?

It's a north/south thing. I was stunned when I first moved down here and men ALWAYS opened the door for me, or even stopped midway though and backed out so I could go through first, looked at me funny when I waited for them to get off the elevator because they were closer to the door, and apologized when they swore in front of me (it's funny to me, because my potty mouth is just as bad a s theirs).

[gtdxeric]

I'm not critisizing Fraternity Recruitment. I'm laughing at the absurdity of PhiGam.


I think you think that he's trolling, and I'm not so sure. This list is actually pretty reasonable... a bit Southern on the cursing and doors, but not that absurd, and doesn't seem like it was calculated to annoy you personally. What I'm trying to say is that I think this could be a good/informative thread, so just ease up a bit, please?

[FSUZeta]

gentlemen, i have enjoyed reading your rush tips thread and hope that you will continue with the tips.

[banditone]

Good stuff, and timeless.

[Benzgirl]

I still crack up everytime I read the thread where Allona (the real boy) said, "Nice Tie" and PhiGam proudly responded, "it's either Brooks Brothers or Ralph Lauren".
Until he said it, I thought it was definitely a K-Mart blue light special.

[Dougie]

1. Have an answer to the following question : what would you bring to XYZ (or something in that same vain)? I’m not saying be cocky or lie about anything, but it’s a common question and a good answer will go a long way.

2. be conversational, keep those one word answers to a minimum and unless you have already gotten to know the brothers be ready to ask a question or two yourself especially about the fraternity .

3. Oh yea, and everyone always says it but please have a bit of Discretion. Honestly, don’t tell a brother how many girls you’ve banged since high school (even if they ask, because its probably better in the long run to skirt the issue) or tell them any stories that might make you look crazy or like a total drunk. Remember, brothers hold rushee’s to a different standard than they do other brothers or even pledges sometimes.

[PhiGam]

I think you think that he's trolling, and I'm not so sure. This list is actually pretty reasonable... a bit Southern on the cursing and doors, but not that absurd, and doesn't seem like it was calculated to annoy you personally. What I'm trying to say is that I think this could be a good/informative thread, so just ease up a bit, please?
Either they find chivalry offensive or they have nothing better to do then follow around somebody on a message board and criticize their posts. Just because 10% of my posts could be viewed as offensive, I do that because my threads get more views/ hour than any other poster on here.

[PhiGam]

It's a north/south thing. I was stunned when I first moved down here and men ALWAYS opened the door for me, or even stopped midway though and backed out so I could go through first, looked at me funny when I waited for them to get off the elevator because they were closer to the door, and apologized when they swore in front of me (it's funny to me, because my potty mouth is just as bad a s theirs).
Perhaps some posters prefer "men" who let the door slam on their face or rush out of the plane/elevator in front of them.

[Benzgirl]

Perhaps some posters prefer "men" who let the door slam on their face or rush out of the plane/elevator in front of them.
It's not a North/South thing. Men all over do this. It's not so much chivalrous as it is common courtesy for any human to do for another. From time to time, I do this for men without thinking. However I have found many Yankee men find it uncomfortable.

[PiKA2001]

Not to say that PhiGam has everything right or that I agree with him 100%, but this is the Fraternity Recruitment forum. Men don't typically come into the Sorority Recruitment forum and criticize Panhellenic Recruitment, so I think that some measure of restraint would be in order here. Just like I'll never really understand Panhellenic Recruitment, no woman will ever fully understand IFC/NIC rush. If someone comes in here saying ridiculous things, please at least let the men have a chance to respond before you blast.

I have to agree with you and PhiGam on this thread, but when it comes to the Three A's, you have to add A|X and Hollister to the no list.

[PhiGam]

I have to agree with you and PhiGam on this thread, but when it comes to the Three A's, you have to add A|X and Hollister to the no list.
I didn't mention the three a's in this thread because this is for all colleges, not just the southern/ fratty ones. I agree with you 100% about the way that fraternity men should dress but its not nationwide, if you wear boat shoes and croakies in the midwest they'll laugh at you the same way that we laugh at people wearing cargo shorts with an abercrombie muscle tee.

[PhiGam]

It's not a North/South thing. Men all over do this. It's not so much chivalrous as it is common courtesy for any human to do for another. From time to time, I do this for men without thinking. However I have found many Yankee men find it uncomfortable.I never said it was a north/ south thing. It is certainly more prevalent in the south though.

[violetpretty]

Perhaps some posters prefer "men" who let the door slam on their face or rush out of the plane/elevator in front of them.

I think there's a difference between opening the door and holding it if you get to the door first and going out of your way to open the door (i.e. stepping in front for the sole purpose of opening the door). The former is natural, the latter is chivalrous.

[violetpretty]

What the hell is wrong with that?

My delicate feminine eyes/ears! :::Faints::::

[banditone]

PhiGam will agree, you should try this look during rush. It will go over well at UCLA, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Florida.... It's a timeless look :cool:


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/JoeyPorsche911/P3240463.jpg

[nittanyalum]

^^^LOLOLOL - that kid in the middle is definitely wearing make-up (and he needs his tweezers taken away -- actually, they all do).

[cuteASAbug]

is that a spray on man tan?

[kathykd2005]

PhiGam will agree, you should try this look during rush. It will go over well at UCLA, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Florida.... It's a timeless look :cool:


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/JoeyPorsche911/P3240463.jpg

O no no no. Please for the love of God, no.

[violetpretty]

Jagerbombs!!!!!

[fantASTic]

Wow. The middle one looks positively feminine.

[PiKA2001]

Wow. The middle one looks positively feminine.


They reek of douchbaggery. The sad thing is there are probably women tripping over themselves to dance with them at the club.

[VandalSquirrel]

PhiGam will agree, you should try this look during rush. It will go over well at UCLA, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Florida.... It's a timeless look :cool:


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/JoeyPorsche911/P3240463.jpg

OOOMPA LOOMPA DOOMPETY DOO I've got another episode of "Growing up Gotti" for you.

Back to the thread topic...
1) Some schools do not allow women at Rush, so that should be a disclaimer. However keep the not swearing and trash talking women in as you never know if the brother will talking to will be offended.
2) Check out the culture of the campus where one is participating in Rush. Khakis and polos might be de rigeur down South, but if for example, you've been in FFA and you're interested in joining AGR in a Western State (Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, etc.) rocking your belt buckle and Wranglers, because that is who you are, is probably a better way to go.
3) Be yourself, because if you're phony it will eventually come out, and you might not make it to initiation, or into any other fraternity.

[kathykd2005]

They reek of douchbaggery. The sad thing is there are probably women tripping over themselves to dance with them at the club.

Women who will realize--only too late--that their new friends enjoy waxing, tanning, wearing make-up, and using hair gel, more than they do. Who wants margaritas? :p

[banditone]

Good eye. Their eyebrows are all either waxed, or tweezed to hell.

And question for the ladies. Let's say you hook up with a gelhead; what in the world goes through your mind when you touch that hair????

[kathykd2005]

I have no answer for that question, since I would never hook up with a "gel head." One reason: because I'm married. The second reason: I'm not attracted to men who care more about "product" than my stylist.

[Benzgirl]

Did anyone notice that their lip color is the same. I would definitely say that the shade could be found at Sephora.

Also, that is a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal bad spray-on. I would ask for my money back.

[kathykd2005]

And someone please explain to me the deal with kissy faces and dudes? I can see girls doing it, but guys? Come on now. I guess I am being sexist, but what is wrong with these young men???

[Benzgirl]

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc296/benzgirl_amg/Preppy1.jpg

I am definitely a prep! A REAL SNOB! And, I want to show how pathetic the rest of you really are. Of course! I'm like, so wonderful and popular and everyone is like so jealous of me!

Preps are the greatest! We rule! We are sooo perfect! Don't you know anything?

People would die to be like me because I'm sooo handsome and everyone just totally wants to be like me!

Name brand clothing all the time...expensive. No sale items, no used clothing and nothing from that freak store, Hot Topic! Ugh! THOSE FREAKS!

If people are popular like me, I treat them nice but secretly I think I am better than them! And I make fun & laugh at all of the unpopular people! Ugh, they are such losers!

[James]

Douchebag Public Service announcement:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1761716

[Benzgirl]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/JoeyPorsche911/P3240463.jpg
Left to right............
Left: "Someone stole the spinners off my Cadillac".
Middle: "I only wear these chains with my bizness attire".
Right: "I'm goin to prison for 'keepin it real'".

Now, someone give me my mustard sandwich.

[James]

Don't forget their cousin with the new Haircut . . . and violetpretty's, "Jagerbombs!!!!!"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4JMOh-cul6M

[PenguinTrax]

I know I haven't been around much, but that doesn't mean I don't keep track of things. Keep this thread on topic, or it will be closed again.

[kathykd2005]

Douchebag Public Service announcement:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1761716

This is freaking hilarious. :D

[PhiGam]

PhiGam will agree, you should try this look during rush. It will go over well at UCLA, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Florida.... It's a timeless look :cool:


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/JoeyPorsche911/P3240463.jpg
F'in jagerbombs!
Those boys would get laughed out of the house at Ole Miss, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas, etc...

[PhiGam]

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc296/benzgirl_amg/Preppy1.jpg

Oakleys, a stone necklace, hair product, and an ugly sweater...

[violetpretty]

F'in jagerbombs!
Those boys would get laughed out of the house at Ole Miss, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas, etc...

You mean that no one would be impressed by how "jacked and tan" they are?!?!?:D

[PhiGam]

You mean that no one would be impressed by how "jacked and tan" they are?!?!?:D
Perhaps

[James]

If you think thats Jacked you need to hang around bigger boys ;)

You mean that no one would be impressed by how "jacked and tan" they are?!?!?:D

[violetpretty]

If you think thats Jacked you need to hang around bigger boys ;)

I was making a reference to "My New F***in' Haircut" on youtube.

[Psi U MC Vito]

To try to get this back on topic. The things have already been said for the most part, but here I go. One real big thing is not to clam up. Rush is essentially a chance for the fraternity to get to make new friends. You are not going to get a bid if brothers can't talk to you and get to know you. Also you definitely should watch your behavior. If you are a complete jerk, chances are you will not get a bid.Fell free to talk and ask questions yourself, as taking a bid is a hard decision in itself.

[nate2512]

Be careful even when not at rush events. Greeks are pretty well connected as to what is going on at local bars and such. If you make an ass of yourself, they are going to find out about it. Talk to the sorority girls, be pleasurably to them, you never know how close to they are to some of the fraternities. I cant say all, but at some schools they can make you or break you.

[AOII_LB93]

PhiGam will agree, you should try this look during rush. It will go over well at UCLA, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Florida.... It's a timeless look :cool:


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/JoeyPorsche911/P3240463.jpg

I can say for certain that look does not go over well pretty much anywhere in California.

And PhiGam you're right, you'd get laughed out of town for croakies out here too. I'm shocked people still wear them at all.

[PhiGam]

I can say for certain that look does not go over well pretty much anywhere in California.

And PhiGam you're right, you'd get laughed out of town for croakies out here too. I'm shocked people still wear them at all.
Croakies are extremely fashionable in most of the south. The are functional too, I have some of the floating ones so that when I go fishing I don't loose my shades in the water.

[Corsulian]

I think the worst thing you can do during rush is nothing. You don't want the reaction to your name to be, "Who?"

Or, "The guy who left drunk and ran into ___'s car and just drove off?"
Or, "The guy who said he hated ?"
Or, "The guy who looks like he came out of the New Haircut video?"

I've heard all these. Never good.

[I]Disclaimer: This advice is based on experiences from a campus where, out of the 30,000+ student population each year, not one person uses the terms "croakies" or "gel head." Most would also be unable to define these terms.

[nate2512]

Croakies are extremely fashionable in most of the south. The are functional too, I have some of the floating ones so that when I go fishing I don't loose my shades in the water.

Are Costas restricted to the south as well?

[PhiGam]

Are Costas restricted to the south as well?
I wouldn't know, they're definitely popular here. GDIs have started to wear them en masse along with Oakleys (ugly). I prefer Ray Bans myself but I have seen some really nice costas (LOVE their blue frames).

[nate2512]

Yes, GDIs are running all over the place with them. But every Greek has them here. I like the ones with the green frames. Oakleys are starting to die out around here, its pretty much 100% costas.

[srmom]

F'in jagerbombs!
Those boys would get laughed out of the house at Ole Miss, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas, etc... NO JOKE!

This picture is hilarious!

I just emailed it to my son telling him that they are new rushees and that his fraternity better bid them quick because they are sure to get bids from all the top fraternities. I can't wait to get his response!!!

[banditone]

hahaha, later homie. classic.

[nate2512]

I don't know if this is across the board or not, but I'm always very put off when rushees use foul language with me.
Not that I've never dropped the F-bomb, but during our first meeting, you should always watch your language.


Also, I had a guy who I hadn't met last night, tell me "later homie" as he left the house.

That could be the Southern Gentlemen in us.

[PhiGam]

So its rush week in Jortsville? We're next week, I'm sure I'll come back with some good ones.

[nate2512]

im just curious as to what title you are talking about?

[banditone]

Giving examples of recent rushees that came through his house, and their faux pas.

[banditone]

Poll Question: Would you wear jorts as your main outfit staple for ONE YEAR to insure your schools football team won the BCS title?



Fratastic

http://www.volnation.com/images/jorts.jpg

[banditone]

(me to)


do you have the pic that has both Leak and Tebow in their jerseys, but wearing Jean Shorts?

[KSUViolet06]

I think you mean Titletown! No jorts tonight, but we did have a couple other winners.


Rushee #1: We found out he was dropped by another fraternity last semester for motorboating an unwilling girl at a social. Wow.



Wow indeed. I would've punched him right in the face.

[nate2512]

PhiGam is at Florida State and I'm at Florida, so he likes to give me a hard time about our reputation for students wearing jean shorts. (Jortsville)

I'm referring to the 2006 National Basketball Championship, the 2006 National Football Championship, and the 2007 National Basketball Championship. (Titletown)

Oh alright I thought you were calling georgia titletown. and yeah i think everybody in the south knows about jortsville.

And I think the worst thing I've seen during rush we had a guy come in with this outline of a this shitty looking tatoo. Our chapter is not big on tatoos so it was already going to be tough for but he pretty much sealed it when he announced he didnt have the money to get it finished.

[macallan25]

I can say for certain that look does not go over well pretty much anywhere in California.

And PhiGam you're right, you'd get laughed out of town for croakies out here too. I'm shocked people still wear them at all.

I have seen Croakies quite a bit in California.

[southernfrat]

I have seen Croakies quite a bit in California.

Probably Hurley or DC croakies

[Firehouse]

Yes. I ran into the same thing once when I was rush chairman a long time ago. Rush moved very fast that fall and we pledged in the mid-40s which was the largest on campus at that time. There was some whining about the pledge class being too big. I had kept records of who had accepted their bids and on what night. I could tell you in order who had pledged and when during rush week. When someone complianed about too many pledges, I turned the compliant on its head. I said, "OK, here's the list. How many do you think we should have - 40? 35? 25? - if we had stopped pledging guys on Thursday night, here are the ones we would not have now. Do you like these guys? Do you think they are impressive?"
You'll never go wrong framing rush to the chapter in terms of "quality" vs. numbers. There's always room for another good man. Especially at the University of Florida where you are, it's dangerous for a fraternity that wants to be competitive to start thinking in terms of being too big. Especially with your beautiful new house, you need to have at least - at the very minimum - twice the number of men in the chapter that you need to fill the house.
And the "percentage of bid acceptance" business is - if you'll pardon me, I mean no disrespect - a loser's game. Trust me. We used to frustrate one rival in rush so badly, we beat them every time, so they created the "bid percentage" thing to make themselves feel better. Every good fraternity says they get everybody they wanted. It's not true. In a rough & tumble rush no one gets everyone they want. When you start playing the "percentage of bid acceptance" game what happens in reality is that the memebrs begin to concentrate on that number. They won't give a man a bid unless they're sure he'll accept becasue they don't want to dilute the number. That's a good way to get beat, and soundly.
Don't talk about a "top 20" rushees; instead talk about quality and leave the goal number of the pledge class vague. Brothers will respond to talk of quality. And when you get a big class they'll be happy. If you get a small class or a disappointing class, the members will tend to rationalize (bid acceptance percentage) instead of making the changes necessary to make the chapter competitive again.

[SthrnZeta]

I can only guess that those guys are Georgia fans. They're the ones we get the most trouble from.




http://gamedaytshirt.com/UGAJEANSFULL.jpg

I can't find one now, but we have shirts in blue that say "Bulldawgs eat their own poop".


And to answer your question, yes I would wear jorts for a year if it would win my team the BCS.

AMEN! Love the shirt, btw. And if I were a Florida fan, the blue one would be funny.

[nittanyalum]

I didn't mean to sound like we got every guy we wanted. Only sororities say that.
LOL!!!! (True.)

Ok, forget the bid percentages, I want to know how many guys showed up wearing jorts? :)

[nittanyalum]

^^^Oh, good lord a blazer and board shorts?!??! (AND open toed leather sandals)

[Benzgirl]

Those clothes are plain FUGLY!

[indygphib]

HI.DE.OUS!!!

*trying to control the vomit creeping up the back of my throat.

[PhiGam]

We actually didn't have any of those last night, one guy with a ponytail (didn't get a bid), thats it.
We gave out ten bids last night and only had two guys sit on it, the guys we have are very solid... but they can't know that of course.

[floridagurl1]

off topic but...


Rushee #3: Talking about how great the KA chapter here was bad enough. THEN he talked about how much he loved Obama. Good luck over at KA, buddy.


I'm sorry but i seriously laughed out loud. My African American friend was rushing his freshman year during fall and for lack of a better term didn't know the "sterotypes" of certain fraternities and walked into the ka house during rush, saw a confederate flag, and walked back out.

and i always get jorts comments from my ucf and fsu friends but i have maybe seen 3 or 4 people ever wearing jean shorts here.. and defiantly never anyone who was greek. (except for ka who i heard actually HAD a jorts social.. to each his own)

[PhiGam]

off topic but...



I'm sorry but i seriously laughed out loud. My African American friend was rushing his freshman year during fall and for lack of a better term didn't know the "sterotypes" of certain fraternities and walked into the ka house during rush, saw a confederate flag, and walked back out.

and i always get jorts comments from my ucf and fsu friends but i have maybe seen 3 or 4 people ever wearing jean shorts here.. and defiantly never anyone who was greek. (except for ka who i heard actually HAD a jorts social.. to each his own)
I've seen at least 20 in Gainesville and I've only been there one time for more than an hour. Guys in southern fraternities have too much style to wear jorts as anything but a joke but the GDIs are clueless. Here at FSU we have a high number Guido GDIs and down there in Jortsville there seems to be a high number of geeks in jean shorts.
SEC... unless that kid's a legacy then I think its safe to assume that KA is gonna pass. I can only think of two fraternities here that would take someone of that "caliber" and KA is definitely not one of them. IDK how it is there but KA and EX are probably the two most exclusive fraternities here.

[Benzgirl]

A good friend of my from home is a KA at FSU, so I've been around some of them on several occasions. They're the same here. Obama supporters are shown the door.
.

In what decade is Kappa Alpha living?

[PhiGam]

In what decade is Kappa Alpha living?
I dont think Obama had supporters in other decades. Hillary supporters would receive the same treatment lol.

[nate2512]

In what decade is Kappa Alpha living?

The same one the South won the war?


Maybe its because I'm from the deep South where virtually everyone is conservative, but he'd have a hard time getting into any fraternity here even without the KA comments, the obama comments alone would be enough for many to show him the door.

[Benzgirl]

The same one the South won the war?




I commend you for admitting to that, but don't you think it's a bit rediculous to not live up to thte standards of non-discriminatory?

[nate2512]

I commend you for admitting to that, but don't you think it's a bit rediculous to not live up to thte standards of non-discriminatory?

I don't think its ridiculous at all. I think thats its pointless to have discriminatory laws in GLOs.

And you are not from the South are you?

[PhiGam]

I wouldn't hammer an Obama supporter but I would hammer an Obama supporter who is stupid enough to think that they have a shot at being a KA.

[Benzgirl]

I don't think its ridiculous at all. I think thats its pointless to have discriminatory laws in GLOs.

And you are not from the South are you?

I live near Oberlin College. You know, the hotbed of Abolitionism and the first college to admit African Americans on a regular basis. Many historians believe that Oberlin was the town that started the Civil War.

Now you know why I think there is way too much distcrimination in SEC fraternities.

[nate2512]

Now you know why I think there is way too much distcrimination in SEC fraternities.

So you are to say that we should just open our doors to everyone who wants to join. I know that you being in a sorority decided to cut someone for whatever reason. Uh oh, by doing that you discriminated against her by saying she did not fit in with your organization for whatever reason.

[Benzgirl]

Hmmm.
Low Grades, Lack of Activities, No Leadership.
Yes, they didn't fit in.



ETA: It wasn't for race, religion, country of origination or socio-economic status.

[nate2512]

Hmmm.
Low Grades, Lack of Activities, No Leadership.
Yes, they didn't fit in.



ETA: It wasn't for race, religion, country of origination or socio-economic status.

Maybe its just different where you are from, but certain people just do not fit into certain organizations. For instance, had I rushed anywhere in the North, they would have called me a douche for wearing Sperry, Costa Del Mar, and Ralph Lauren, and probably cut me for it. Fraternities are generally compromised of people with like interests, values, and such. All I am saying is someone who supports Obama, would not fit in my chapter, so really we would be doing him a favor cutting. And before you start bashing the SEC fraternities, how many white people do you know in BGLOs. It is no different.

[PhiGam]

Hmmm.
Low Grades, Lack of Activities, No Leadership.
Yes, they didn't fit in.



ETA: It wasn't for race, religion, country of origination or socio-economic status.
We don't like taking guys who have personalities that don't mesh with our own. A fraternity is supposed to be a group of people that have similar tastes and interests, we aren't going to give a bid to somebody just because we think they can be a "leader in the fraternity," we have plenty of leaders as it is.

[PhiGam]

Anyway, we ended up with 16 pledges out of 19 bids given out and we only lost one guy to another fraternity. The two undecided guys had their bids extended to sunday because we really want them.

MISTAKES: One kid came to the house bragging about being a third string quarterback in high school... seriously. I also caught a few guys lying about being interested in golf so they got hammered. I'm very happy with our spring rush though, we probably had 50 guys come through here and we have one of the largest pledge classes on campus.

I also really hit it off with a few of the pledges including one kid who's a world class break dancer (not fratty by any means, but definitely a really solid guy who I pushed really hard to take his bid.) Now we have to give them all nicknames, we have already deemed two of them Chester and Legend.

[banditone]

Call the breakdancing guy Ozone or Turbo (or Special K).

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o297/odmddesigns/OzoneTurboKelly.gif

[barbino]

In what decade is Kappa Alpha living?

Having been a KA little sister while I was at Kentucky (UK), I can truly appreciate this comment. I was from the North (Chicago) and had alot of culture shock going on while I was a student there. OMG! There were people that really thought that the South would "rise again" and I never considered the Mason-Dixon line until I got to UK. Suddenly--there were these guys that liked to dress up in Confederate uniforms, they sang "Dixie" and had atrocious Southern accents. Then they kidnapped my Pi Phi pledge class and the next thing I knew I was a KA little sister, complete with a dark red rose and brothers from all areas of the South.

I remember them all, and I remember my two big brothers well. KA is a really special band of guys, but they are living in a bygone era. Life has changed since Gone With the Wind! :)

[ladygreek]

how many white people do you know in BGLOs. It is no different.

Hmmmm, quite a few. Some even post here. Don't try to justify your own prejudices by using us.

[sasquatch]

Having been a KA little sister while I was at Kentucky (UK), I can truly appreciate this comment. I was from the North (Chicago) and had alot of culture shock going on while I was a student there. OMG! There were people that really thought that the South would "rise again" and I never considered the Mason-Dixon line until I got to UK. Suddenly--there were these guys that liked to dress up in Confederate uniforms, they sang "Dixie" and had atrocious Southern accents. Then they kidnapped my Pi Phi pledge class and the next thing I knew I was a KA little sister, complete with a dark red rose and brothers from all areas of the South.

I remember them all, and I remember my two big brothers well. KA is a really special band of guys, but they are living in a bygone era. Life has changed since Gone With the Wind! :)

Someone from Chicago talking about "atrocious" accents :rolleyes:.

I'm joking. Well, maybe.

[SWTXBelle]

OMG! People from the south having . . .southern accents??? I ask you - how dare they???

[Benzgirl]

OMG! People from the south having . . .southern accents??? I ask you - how dare they???

There are southern accents and then there are Deep South accents. I never realized this until I was in the working world, and the deep south accents are very difficult for me to understand.

But then, where I live, you can tell what neighborhood a certain person grew up in by the way they pronounce certain words

[honeychile]

There are southern accents and then there are Deep South accents. I never realized this until I was in the working world, and the deep south accents are very difficult for me to understand.

But then, where I live, you can tell what neighborhood a certain person grew up in by the way they pronounce certain words
And so it is in the South, too.

[ladygreek]

And so it is in the South, too.
In St. Louis (since folx can't decide if it is south or midwest) it's called the St. Louis drawl. After all these years of not living there I still find myself slipping into it at times. LOL

[DSTCHAOS]

Hmmmm, quite a few. Some even post here. Don't try to justify your own prejudices by using us.

And nonblacks who actually apply for membership (it doesn't happen in droves because of what BGLOs' larger aims are but it happens more at some campuses) tend not to be denied just because of their race or because of political/social views that have nothing to do with the sorority ideals.

Getting along with and relating to people in the chapter doesn't mean that there has to be a cookie cutter look or way of looking at the social world. As long as the person is not saying or doing things to undermine the organization, the rest is just an attempt at reinforcing an outdated status quo.

[PhiGam]

Yeah, this debate belongs in a different thread so CUT IT OUT NOW please.

[DSTCHAOS]

And you are supposed to be.....?

BGLOs were brought up HERE so we're discussing it HERE.

ETA: You should've stopped the thread hijack a page or so ago.

[PhiGam]

And nonblacks who actually apply for membership (it doesn't happen in droves because of what BGLOs' larger aims are but it happens more at some campuses) tend not to be denied just because of their race or because of political/social views that have nothing to do with the sorority ideals.
So how is that not a double standard? You are saying that sometimes people are denied because of those reasons. Also, those are sororities and I have two black friends that were denied from black fraternities for being "sellouts." That is FAR worse in my opinion than KA denying someone for being a liberal, those black fraternities are missing out on upstanding young men just because their father's are successful and gave them a great education growing up.


Getting along with and relating to people in the chapter doesn't mean that there has to be a cookie cutter look or way of looking at the social world. As long as the person is not saying or doing things to undermine the organization, the rest is just an attempt at reinforcing an outdated status quo.
You are certainly free to run your organization in whatever way you see fit. I've never understood why people have a problem with a way an organization that they are not a part of is run internally. Perhaps its my southern upbringing that taught me to mind my own business and let others worry about theirs.

[DSTCHAOS]

So now you want to type about it HERE? :rolleyes:

Stuff happens. There's a huge difference between stuff happening and fraternity and sorority infrastructures actually endorsing stuff happening. Chapters can get in a lot of trouble if they are found to have denied membership based on race or racial stereotypes. Versus what some of you seemed to be saying about your chapters that proudly (probably to the knowledge of chapter, regional and even national officials) uphold the status quo.

But, again, this is always a nontopic until people make it one for BGLOs. Despite our nondiscriminatory national statements, nonblacks do not pursue BGLOs in large numbers for a number of social and organizational reasons. The chapters that do get nonblack applicants are usually getting them because the local, campus and chapter climates are conducive to inclusion. ;)

Oh and imagine how this society would really be if Southerners truly minded their own business and let others do their thing. This country's history would be a lot different and that applies to how organizations were founded and how they currently operate. GCers amuse me with these regional references that they think are flattering.

[srmom]

Oh and imagine how this society would really be if Southerners truly minded their own business and let others do their thing. This country's history would be a lot different and that applies to how organizations were founded and how they currently operate

How would they be different? Examples? Just curious as to your thinking process...

[Benzgirl]

So now you want to type about it HERE? :rolleyes:

Stuff happens. There's a huge difference between stuff happening and fraternity and sorority infrastructures actually endorsing stuff happening. Chapters can get in a lot of trouble if they are found to have denied membership based on race or racial stereotypes. Versus what some of you seemed to be saying about your chapters that proudly (probably to the knowledge of chapter, regional and even national officials) uphold the status quo.

But, again, this is always a nontopic until people make it one for BGLOs. Despite our nondiscriminatory national statements, nonblacks do not pursue BGLOs in large numbers for a number of social and organizational reasons. The chapters that do get nonblack applicants are usually getting them because the local, campus and chapter climates are conducive to inclusion. ;)

Oh and imagine how this society would really be if Southerners truly minded their own business and let others do their thing. This country's history would be a lot different and that applies to how organizations were founded and how they currently operate. GCers amuse me with these regional references that they think are flattering.

You go girl! I think the last paragraph is entirely appropriate to this thread. This is the same Fratty that just encouraged a guy in "skipping class to go to rush event" to skip his class because, "you have four years to go to class and one week to rush".

In the past, I thought this guy was just a dimwhit, but I now know that he would be the one putting on that Confederate Uniform that Barbino told about. But then I live near Oberlin, which is where the Civil War began with a bunch progressive Abolitionists. Maybe I should indicate that in my signature so they don't expect me to go duck hunting or fishing with the Frat Boys.

[sasquatch]

You go girl! I think the last paragraph is entirely appropriate to this thread. This is the same Fratty that just encouraged a guy in "skipping class to go to rush event" to skip his class because, "you have four years to go to class and one week to rush".

In the past, I thought this guy was just a dimwhit, but I now know that he would be the one putting on that Confederate Uniform that Barbino told about. But then I live near Oberlin, which is where the Civil War began with a bunch progressive Abolitionists. Maybe I should indicate that in my signature so they don't expect me to go duck hunting or fishing with the Frat Boys.

Please be honest. Do you have some sort of grudge against Southern Greek life? Every time there's a topic on the subject, you come running. I am from the South and very proud of my Southern heritage. I go to an SEC school, but at the same time, I think a few of the "fratty" posters here try way too hard so maybe you're more opposed to those individuals than anything else.

Edit: You act like there's something wrong with KA wearing CSA uniforms for their composites...

[DSTCHAOS]

For me, this stuff isn't about the South because bigotry and the status quo did not begin and end with the South. It's just more overt and traditionalized in the South. I notice that on GC almost every topic turns into a regional thing or whatever (I'm not well versed in what all that stuff means, including the acronyms like SEC). But it seems that most GCers are okay with these rants as long as it stays away from *gasp* gender, race or other more pertinent social discussions that impact college students and Greeks.

Anyway...some of us from the South (even if it's not the Deep South) get annoyed with people justifying everything with "well, I'm a Southerner." Give me a break.

[srmom]

I am just truly curious as to how organizations would be different if "southerners" would mind their own business, or whatever he was espousing.

Back to discriminating against pnm's - as an old lady whose seen alot over the years (and not just in greek organizations), there is discrimination based on just about every ridiculous thing you can think of when it comes to offering membership to an organization. I've even seen discrimination in Bible study groups (no lie). So, to say that because a national organization has something in their charter about "non-discrimination," they are going to abide by it, is generally a bunch of bull hinky. And, this is not exclusive to the south...

But, I've become quite jaded over the years;)

[DSTCHAOS]

So, to say that because a national organization has something in their charter about "non-discrimination," they are going to abide by it, is generally a bunch of bull hinky. And, this is not exclusive to the south...

I think we all know there's no 100%. :)

To generally answer your other question, some exclusionary practices are meant to segregate in the name of "seperate but equal...or do whatever you do but stay out of our way." Other exclusionary practices are meant to segregate while also relegating others to lower status and both overt and more subtle differential treatment. The latter in particular happens all over the country, and more specifically in the South, and is not a tactic used by self-proclaimed "our own business minders." :)

Apply that logic to a historical and contemporary look at social interactions and the operation of social institutions, including quite a few Greek lettered organizations, that have conscientiously documented and benefited from exclusionary tactics.

[DSTCHAOS]

I think you, and many others, are a little confused on how to take some of us.


I'm not confused.

I have also never read any of your posts that I can recall. So don't make yourself the GC Southerner spokesperson just as I will not make myself the GC Southerner spokesperson.

[nittanyalum]

Water seeks its own level. For good or bad.

[nate2512]

I'm sorry for implying something on groups on wide basis. I'm not trying to justify prejudices because I have none.

[33girl]

Edit: You act like there's something wrong with KA wearing CSA uniforms for their composites...

Am I the only one who caught part of that "CSA" movie on the Independent Film Channel?

[PhiGam]

Water seeks its own level. For good or bad.
I've never heard that before... very nice.

[PhiGam]

First of all Benzgirl... my GLO is diverse and I am glad that it is. We are the only good fraternity at this university that has a significant number of minorities because race is NOT a factor for a bid here. Perhaps you shouldn't make assumptions. You have some problem with the way things go down here... I know exactly why but I'm not going to post it and get banned, if you want to know my true opinion of you I will be happy to PM it.
And srmom apparently you do not know about American history if you think that any of the south's problems are from meddling in other states' affairs. We do mind our own business... like it or not.

[PhiGam]

And KA Society is racist... plain and simple. I have no desire to be a part of that organization and that is the only reason. They wear CSA uniforms because they were founded by Robert E Lee. They have a southern cross on their house, re enact a civil war battle every year, and got in trouble for spreading cotton on a black fraternity's lawn a few years back. These guys ARE stuck in 1865. I'm pretty sure they are the same at every school too. Most southern fraternities aren't like this though.
They are obviously not people that I want to associate with but they still have a right to have their own private organization. Any claim by them of not being racist is a boldfaced lie though.

[33girl]

PhiGam - Kappa Alpha Order is the founded by Robert E Lee one. Kappa Alpha Society was founded in Schnectady NY.

[knight_shadow]

First of all Benzgirl... Perhaps you shouldn't make assumptions.

I'm pretty sure they are the same at every school too.

*insert pot/kettle reference*

[DSTCHAOS]

I'm sorry for implying something on groups on wide basis. I'm not trying to justify prejudices because I have none.

I firmly believe that how people's posts come off the first time is how they were intended. As humans we attempt to come back to correct ourselves so the viewpoints expressed can be in line with our nonprejudiced opinions of ourselves. :)

You said that antidiscriminatory claims for organizations are stupid, which is interesting in and of itself since this discussion wasn't just about denying membership to people who wore Izod versus Ralph Lauren (that stuff was mentioned but it wasn't the context of every post). You then said that an Obama supporter wouldn't fit in with your chapter, which was apparently a race correlation for you because you not-so-randomly inserted your tidbit about whites in BGLOs. And, btw, that was an intentionally broad comparison that you made.

Yeah...that post and the resulting discussion happened exactly as they were meant to happen. No backpedaling.

[PhiGam]

PhiGam - Kappa Alpha Order is the founded by Robert E Lee one. Kappa Alpha Society was founded in Schnectady NY.
Right, thats what I meant.

[PhiGam]

Being a racist and having prejudices are very different, just so everyone knows. And while I'm completely off topic, I think that there are probably many KAs that are not racist OR prejudice.


For example, my chapter currently has two minoritiy brothers and one pledge. For the next four years, at least, there will be no black pledges. At all.
Not because my chapter is racist, but because some of the guys won't let it happen. So, while I would be surprised to see a minority in a KA chapter, I'd also be surprised if there weren't a lot of guys that wanted one.
If there won't be a black pledge because it can't happen then that is systematic... and that is racism. I'm not trying to call you out because I believe that organizations should be allowed to take whoever they want, but that doesn't make it anything other than racism when you deny a black guy membership only because hes black.

[TSteven]

And KA Society is racist... plain and simple. I have no desire to be a part of that organization and that is the only reason. They wear CSA uniforms because they were founded by Robert E Lee. They have a southern cross on their house, re enact a civil war battle every year, and got in trouble for spreading cotton on a black fraternity's lawn a few years back. These guys ARE stuck in 1865. I'm pretty sure they are the same at every school too. Most southern fraternities aren't like this though.

They are obviously not people that I want to associate with but they still have a right to have their own private organization. Any claim by them of not being racist is a boldfaced lie though.

With all due respect, I take exception with the bolded statement. I happen to know more than a few gentleman of Kappa Alpha Order and I seriously doubt that anyone who has met them would ever consider them racists.

[PhiGam]

With all due respect, I take exception with the bolded statement. I happen to know more than a few gentleman of Kappa Alpha Order and I seriously doubt that anyone who has met them would ever consider them racists.
Which chapters are you talking about here?

[TSteven]

Which chapters are you talking about here?

Naming specific chapters will just get people in - pardon my crassness - some sort of a pissing match. "Shut up." "No, you shut up." So suffice to say that all of the KAs *I* happen to know come from chapters that are located in the South. Including - but not limited to - more than a few Southeastern Conference (SEC) institutions of higher learning. And over different generations as well.

It is quite possible that they happen to be the only members of their chapters that are not racists. However, I find it hard to believe that is the case.

[barbino]

PhiGam - Kappa Alpha Order is the founded by Robert E Lee one. Kappa Alpha Society was founded in Schnectady NY.

Thank You, 33girl for the correction, but I'm going to add to the distinct differences between:

1) Kappa Alpha Order, whose spiritual (not actual) founder is Robert E. Lee. Almost all of its chapters are in the South and it was founded after

2) Kappa Alpha Society, which only has a few chapters (I think that they are all out east), but it has the distinction of being one of the first fraternities ever founded.
I found out about KA Society by reading Baird's years ago. :)

[DSTCHAOS]

I am reminded why PhiGam is alright with me. :)

[TSteven]

No offense taken. I was trying to explain that my chapter is known as one that will not take blacks, but probably more than 50% would be willing to. The entire chapter is not racist, but enough of the members are to make it seem that way. Does that make sense?

Generally speaking, it may only take a limited number of members to vote "no" to deny a bid to a rushee. In some chapters, it might be just one no vote. And some chapters may require a vote (approval) on each pledge prior to initiation. Again, this number needed to "blackball" (vote no and deny membership) may be low here as well.

[ladygreek]

I'm not trying to justify prejudices because I have none.
That is impressive. I wish I could say the same. I do not have the power to turn them into an "ism", but I do have some prejudices.

[violetpretty]

And KA Society is racist... plain and simple. I have no desire to be a part of that organization and that is the only reason. They wear CSA uniforms because they were founded by Robert E Lee. They have a southern cross on their house, re enact a civil war battle every year, and got in trouble for spreading cotton on a black fraternity's lawn a few years back. These guys ARE stuck in 1865. I'm pretty sure they are the same at every school too. Most southern fraternities aren't like this though.
They are obviously not people that I want to associate with but they still have a right to have their own private organization. Any claim by them of not being racist is a boldfaced lie though.

Well, Kappa Alpha Order at Maryland definitely does not fit your description. Then again, Maryland is not the South. Of the first 3 KAs I met, one was African-American, one was Asian-American, and one was Jewish. I wonder what going to their convention is like...

[banditone]

That would be uncomfortable.

[nate2512]

I firmly believe that how people's posts come off the first time is how they were intended.

Because you can read my mind and tell me exactly what I intended. And yes, I have certain prejudices, but race is not one of them. Don't even think about trying to me how I feel about certain things because you do not know me. You do not know how my organization is run. I do not tell you how to run yours, therefore you do not tell me how to run mine. I do not see what my chapter of my organization not taking an Obama supporter has to with race. An Obama supporter can white, black or any other color. And if being an obama supporter makes this race correlated then you would seem to be saying that only black people support obama and all black people support obama. The fact that I do not care for Obama has nothing to do with his race.

[DSTCHAOS]

Because you can read my mind and tell me exactly what I intended.


I can read what your mind led you to type and deduce, accordingly.

[srmom]

And srmom apparently you do not know about American history if you think that any of the south's problems are from meddling in other states' affairs. We do mind our own business... like it or not.

phigam, you must have me confused with someone else cuz I don't know what in the heck you're talking about :) I was asking DST about her post, I haven't ever commented on any of your posts - til now.

My son is in the Kappa Alpha Order and he isn't racist and never has been. He has too many friends that are African American and too many relatives that are hispanic to be so. You are grossly over generalizing and it is not only rude, but also not acting like a gentleman (which you proclaim you are - vehemently).

Didn't your mother teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all? That is the southern way.

[sageofages]

And KA [Order] Society is racist... plain and simple. I have no desire to be a part of that organization and that is the only reason. They wear CSA uniforms because they were founded by Robert E Lee. They have a southern cross on their house, re enact a civil war battle every year, and got in trouble for spreading cotton on a black fraternity's lawn a few years back. These guys ARE stuck in 1865. I'm pretty sure they are the same at every school too. Most southern fraternities aren't like this though.
They are obviously not people that I want to associate with but they still have a right to have their own private organization. Any claim by them of not being racist is a boldfaced lie though.

I take personal exception to your blanketed statement

My father is a Gentleman of the Kappa Alpha Order. He is most assuredly not racist or bigotted in any manner. His ability to see the greatness in all served him well during a decorated Air Force career.

He is however, prejudiced and quite intolerant against ignorance, laziness, deception and intrenched refusal to learn and appreciate intellegent discussion on all topics; no matter the demographics of the individual uttering such.

[SWTXBelle]

Some fall prey to the idea that southern = racist. Phigam, having your broad knowledge of American history to fall back on you know:
1.) Slavery existed in the U.S.A. throughout and after the WBTS.
2.) The Emancipation Proclaimation freed slaves in the C.S.A., NOT the U.S.A.
3.) After the War, many northern cities passed legislation barring freed slaves from living there.

. . . and so on, and so on. My point? That by celebrating southern heritage KA is most assuredly NOT celebrating racism. Racism, unfortunately, exists everywhere. I think it is dangerous for non-southerners to smugly assume it does not. It allows them to believe the issue doesn't affect them and isn't something they should consider and fight.
Are there racist KAs? Sure. Just as there are racist FIJIs, and every other GLO. Let me point out - the campus culture will have a great deal more to do with whether or not 1.) minorities even go through IFC rush and 2.) they are given bids. At some campuses, the BGLO are so strong that there is not much, if any, interest in minorities in pursuing membership in a traditionally white GLO. If you look at composites, they might be lily white, and you might assume they are racists.

I'm reminded of when cries of "Racism!" were leveled against the SMU Panhellenic. Turns out, no minorities(specifically, blacks) had gone through recruitment. (!!!) Once some did, some did indeed receive bids.

There are so many variables to why someone might not be given a bid. In fact, a very non-racist member might chose NOT to give a minority a bid if they felt their brothers would not be as accepting or positive about his pledgeship. Be very careful of making gross generalizations.

[DSTCHAOS]

At some campuses, the BGLO are so strong that there is not much, if any, interest in minorities in pursuing membership in a traditionally white GLO. If you look at composites, they might be lily white, and you might assume they are racists.

I don't think anyone should assume racism because a chapter is "lily white." The absence of something doesn't equal racism unless certain practices are found that attempt to deter nonwhites from participating in chapters' events or going through recruitment.

And, yes, every fraternity and sorority has chapters that go out of their way to keep certain people (whether that's based on race, social class, hair color, etc.) from programs or recruitment activities.

I'm reminded of when cries of "Racism!" were leveled against the SMU Panhellenic. Turns out, no minorities(specifically, blacks) had gone through recruitment. (!!!) Once some did, some did indeed receive bids.

Makes sense. But, keep in mind that this still goes back to the many factors that contribute to why some minorities do not go through recruitment.



There are so many variables to why someone might not be given a bid. In fact, a very non-racist member might chose NOT to give a minority a bid if they felt their brothers would not be as accepting or positive about his pledgeship. Be very careful of making gross generalizations.

So instead of questioning the status quo, these people go right along with it.

That's actually STILL racism at the individual-level and reinforces the racist structure.

[SWTXBelle]

"So instead of questioning the status quo, these people go right along with it.

That's actually STILL racism at the individual-level and reinforces the racist structure. "
__________________


So, in my hypothetical situation what do you think is the proper response for a non-racist brother to one who is racist? Our hypothetical minority pnm is up for a vote. The non-racist knows that if he is given a bid, the pnm will not be treated equally. What do you think would be the best way to not reinforce the racist structure - to question the status quo?

[DSTCHAOS]

So, in my hypothetical situation what do you think is the proper response for a non-racist brother to one who is racist? Our hypothetical minority pnm is up for a vote. The non-racist knows that if he is given a bid, the pnm will not be treated equally. What do you think would be the best way to not reinforce the racist structure - to question the status quo?

The "nonracist" brother isn't really nonracist if he not only can't figure out how to handle the situation but would also continue to associate with racists within a racist structure. ;) If you believe your brothers are bigoted and racist morons who use chapter policies inappropriately, why's that okay for YOU to associate with but not for certain pnms?

Racism (and sexism) exist because of the prejudiced racists (and sexists) and the nonprejudiced (racists and sexists). This is one way in which racist (and sexist) structures and practices continue eventhough the average person will claim that they aren't prejudiced or racist (or sexist) when you ask them.

I acknowledge that's it difficult to make things change and that people often won't vote for someone because they want to "protect" that person. But when it boils down to it, it's still the same -ism.

[SWTXBelle]

Well, it's not as though you go through rush asking "Are you a racist?". (Talk about "biggest rush mistakes"!) It's entirely possible the subject never came up until this specific example. So let's say the non-racist member quits - "I won't associate with you racists!" and storms off. What has changed? By quitting, how has he advanced the cause of equality? I think it entirely possible that by remaining a member he is in a much better position to change the group culture - even if it means waiting to become an officer or an alumni and scheduling programming to try and open up some minds.

I guess my point is that I am always perplexed by those who call "racist!" but don't offer concrete suggestions on how to overcome it. Changing hearts and minds isn't, I realize, the work of an hour or a day. I think members can do more IN an org than OUT, and that sometimes one strong leader can make a difference.

[catiebug]

Well, bless his heart!

.

[DSTCHAOS]

Changing hearts and minds isn't, I realize, the work of an hour or a day.

My concept of racism isn't about changing hearts and minds, anyway, because that would be in the realm of "tolerance and diversity training for Archie Bunker."

[SWTXBelle]

Okay, I am truly trying to make sure I am clear about your views - you don't think people can change? I think often racism is a form of ignorance - you simply don't know enough to think beyond a stereotype.

[ktbug10474]

SWTX i agree

ANY discrimination is ignorance. People can change it's not they can't it's that they won't because they don't want to feel uncomfortable doing something that isn't familiar to them.

[DSTCHAOS]

Okay, I am truly trying to make sure I am clear about your views - you don't think people can change? I think often racism is simply a form of ignorance - you simply don't know enough to think beyond a stereotype.

On a structural level, racism isn't about "people changing" and it isn't a form of ignorance.

However, prejudice is a form of ignorance and people can learn and change their prejudiced or bigoted ways. But you don't need to be prejudiced to be racist and that's why I discussed prejudiced and nonprejudiced racists.

(We've had this discussion on GC about once a year. :))

To bring it back to rush mistakes, I do know of aspirants who have verbalized some discontent with the present GLO system (for example, I know of aspirants who were going to "diversify and teach" certain chapters about their bigoted ways regarding race, sexual orientation, etc.) and claimed that they would be the ones to change it. That pissed a lot of people off, of course, not just because some of the actives didn't want to change but because the actives didn't like know-it-all aspirants. It took forward-thinking and compassionate actives to get these aspirants a vote. Some aspirants didn't get a vote.

[SWTXBelle]

cool beans - and if you want to post a link to the previous discussion I'd be happy to read it.

[ladygreek]

Because you can read my mind and tell me exactly what I intended. And yes, I have certain prejudices, but race is not one of them.
You do tend to back pedal. Earlier you said you had no prejudices.

[ladygreek]

In fact, a very non-racist member might chose NOT to give a minority a bid if they felt their brothers would not be as accepting or positive about his pledgeship. Be very careful of making gross generalizations.
Or HE might feel that the person's personality just does not fit the group. Nothing wrong with that.

[bowsandtoes]

To be honest, fraternities are about brining together people of similar character who have shared interests and backgrounds. It only makes sense that a lot of those groups would be made along racial lines. A chapter doesn't need diversity to be a good chapter.

[DSTCHAOS]

It only makes sense that a lot of those groups would be made along racial lines.

:) That only makes sense because this is still an extremely racially segregated society.

[nate2512]

You do tend to back pedal. Earlier you said you had no prejudices.

Or perhaps I made the statement I have no prejudices to get my point across that I was not racially prejudice but then realized that the statement was far more general than having to do with just race. Not back-pedaling, clarifying.

[nate2512]

The thing is, which is why I originally said that I think discriminatory laws in GLOs are pointless is because a black person may not fit in with my organization, thats not saying we would not take a black person, because it could happen, but very few rush here so thats doubtful, but if he does not fit in he gets cut. So he files a lawsuit against my chapter saying we racially discriminated against him. He has no case, because we tell the truth that he was released not for his race, but for the simple fact that we do not feel he fits in with our organizations and what we embody. We probably cut a vast exponentially larger number of white people to for the same thing. I know a white person on our campus that inquired about membership to a traditionally black organization and they told him they would not take him. Him and his black friend that he wanted to pledge with then inquired about our organizations, and we welcomed them both to rush us and discussed it and decided that we would bid them both but with their athletic schedule they decided not to.
Moral of the story, I am not a racist person, neither are any of the brothers in my chapter. And I am standing by my claim that discrimination laws in GLOs are pointless.

And now I stand by for someone to ridicule some part of post because its sure to happen.

[nittanyalum]

Wow how did this thread get to this ^^^ from this:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/JoeyPorsche911/P3240463.jpg

I actually miss Fratty's list of what to wear and what size/type/look of female to be seen in the company of...

[nate2512]

Wow how did this thread get to this ^^^ from this:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/JoeyPorsche911/P3240463.jpg

I actually miss Fratty's list of what to wear and what size/type/look of female to be seen in the company of...

Because I made a huge mistake.

[VandalSquirrel]

If it helps, I knew what you were trying to say.


I think I'll feed the fire now.
By what everyone has been defining racism as, I am a racist:

I don't want most minorities in my chapter. Not because I think any less of other races, but because there are deep-rooted differences, and I joined a fraternity to find brothers I had things in common with. A lot in common.
I would never discriminate (and have not) in the workplace, in the classroom, or any other organization. I know I'm going to get reamed for this but understand- I honest to God am no sort of white supremecist. I just know that there are fundamental differences among races, and because there are plenty of other places to mix, I don't think my fraternity should be thought of as racist.

DSTChaos- we live in a "segregated" society because EVERYONE recognizes these differences.


I think what I have a bigger problem with is your missue of the term/construct of race. At least you're open with your biases and discrimation so people know what they're dealing with, and frankly I respect that a hell of a lot more than a closet bigot. A lot of what I believe you're referring to as "differences among races" are social constructs and have nothing to do with skin color, eye and nose shape, or even how one spells their last name. People grow up in all kinds of families and economic structures, and I know plenty of people who are not checking the white/caucasian box, but are interested in some activities you have mentioned. Race isn't defined by genetics or physical characteristics.

Of course I live in a completely different part of the country, but we have our history of hatred to the point in recent history a nearby city completely shut down operation to protest a KKK parade.

[33girl]

I'm on the same page as you with the bold. Maybe not 100% with the social contructs, but for the most part, I think I agree. That's why I hate how the word racism is used now, because quite frankly, skin color means nothing to me- the cultures (I guess that's the right word) that color represents is where I have different opinions.

So in other words, what you're saying is you would have more in common (and probably bid) a black man who was raised in your town and whose parents were of the same social strata as yours before you'd bid some white guy from Pittsburgh.

I understand that - I think what people get upset about is what seems to be an assumption that there aren't any situations like that.

[DSTCHAOS]

DSTChaos- we live in a "segregated" society because EVERYONE recognizes these differences.

That's actually NOT why.

[DSTCHAOS]

So in other words, what you're saying is you would have more in common (and probably bid) a black man who was raised in your town and whose parents were of the same social strata as yours before you'd bid some white guy from Pittsburgh.

I understand that - I think what people get upset about is what seems to be an assumption that there aren't any situations like that.

Yeah because he just tried to justify why this is still an extremely racially segregated society.

MEANING, blacks and whites from similar socioeconomic backgrounds remain segregated from one another versus being more integrated based on social class and similar experiences. And that's the reality.

I swear, I was trying to just bring back the "rush mistakes" but the uninformed posts keepacoming. There aren't FUNDAMENTAL differences across races.

[DSTCHAOS]

I'm on the same page as you with the bold. Maybe not 100% with the social contructs, but for the most part, I think I agree. That's why I hate how the word racism is used now, because quite frankly, skin color means nothing to me- the cultures (I guess that's the right word) that color represents is where I have different opinions.

If you believe "race" is culture (which it is, along with other social and economic factors that impact some groups more than others) then you agree 100% with the social construct definition of race.

"Race" is not biological. Period. And 99% of the differences that people observe across racial groups aren't biological or inherent.

[DSTCHAOS]

The thing is, which is why I originally said that I think discriminatory laws in GLOs are pointless is because a black person may not fit in with my organization, thats not saying we would not take a black person, because it could happen, but very few rush here so thats doubtful, but if he does not fit in he gets cut. So he files a lawsuit against my chapter saying we racially discriminated against him. He has no case, because we tell the truth that he was released not for his race, but for the simple fact that we do not feel he fits in with our organizations and what we embody. We probably cut a vast exponentially larger number of white people to for the same thing. I know a white person on our campus that inquired about membership to a traditionally black organization and they told him they would not take him. Him and his black friend that he wanted to pledge with then inquired about our organizations, and we welcomed them both to rush us and discussed it and decided that we would bid them both but with their athletic schedule they decided not to.
Moral of the story, I am not a racist person, neither are any of the brothers in my chapter. And I am standing by my claim that discrimination laws in GLOs are pointless.

And now I stand by for someone to ridicule some part of post because its sure to happen.

So the Obama supporter discussion was a perfect transition for you to discuss how you feel about race? :confused: That's what I told you the first time around. Did I miss where race (and BGLOs) was the topic of discussion before you started discussing Obama supporters?

[srmom]

MEANING, blacks and whites from similar socioeconomic backgrounds remain segregated from one another versus being more integrated based on social class and similar experiences. And that's the reality.

That is not true in all cases. Maybe in a generalized sense, but in specific cases, I think things are becoming much more racially integrated, and the segregation is based on cultural differences not race.

Case in point: at my son's high school, the kids who hang together are totally racially integrated - the athletes hang with the athletes with no racial divisions that I've seen, and it is like this in each cultural group - the theatre kids run with each other, the dance squad people all hang together, etc.

But, you will not see a "goth" kid or a "druggie", or whatever, hanging with an "athlete" or an "orchestra kid".

This is a high school that is economically homogenous but culturally diverse.

Just an example...

[SWTXBelle]

I think one problem with this topic is the different meanings ascribed to the same words - i.e. race, racism, culture, etc. - and the fact that misunderstandings occur when the terms are not defined, or if there is no consensus on the definitions.
-end of my hijack.

Anyone have an idea to get this back on topic?

[OLD_GOLD3]

My definition

When I was in high school and undergrad race was defined loosely as broader grouping of one’s ethnic background. Now I personally do not agree with the statement that there are fundamental differences between races socially. There may be slight cultural differences but that seems like an entirely different argument. If all applicants being what could be broadly defined as “American”, in the grand schemes of things there (in my opinion) are no differences. Social/economic differences amongst applicants is another story entirely, I would be naïve to assume that Fraternities do not discriminate socially, culturally or even racially.

But to stay on subject I believe the idea that people of different races can not get coexist in a Fraternity due to racial differences is absurd. Maybe socially yes but those all seem to personal “hang ups” one may choose not to associate with another person based on these principles. But I ultimately have a problem with the idea or defense of, with out calling it for what it is. Now if the term race was used to describe social difference or cultural differences, you can see how that can easily be misinterpreted. In defense of statement of that members of NPHC are equally just as exclusive as some of the other organizations mentioned are fundamentally unfounded. I can only speak for my organization and my experiences, but I have met many diverse chapters in my Fraternity and brothers equally as welcoming.

I can not speak for every brother and every chapter so I will not be that presumptuous, but in my experiences in my organization most are quite welcoming of diversity especially in the state I currently reside. Having attended two undergraduate universities in the south (maybe not the deep south) I have not seen racial exclusionary practices in most of the “orgs” I came across whether they were NPC, NPHC or NIC

“The Phinest men are made in Cambria”

[PhiGam]

Ok, were going in circles now guys... back to biggest rush mistakes. I forgot what has been said and what should be added to the list... refresh me.

[Tom Earp]

Recruitment as some said is to find like members.

Is that in mind, color or relegion?

There may be some that while not white only clauses still think that and that is ignorance not knowledge about people!

Some will be sure to argue that whites are racist, since when were blacks, Asians, or Latinos not the same?

In recruitment, he or shes find a PERSON who will help them grow and round out the group and learn from them as individuals, or should!

[DSTCHAOS]

Maybe in a generalized sense, but in specific cases, I think things are becoming much more racially integrated, and the segregation is based on cultural differences not race.

I am talking about trends and patterns across millions of people and institutions such as the segregated schools, churches, and neighborhoods. These are the segregated places where people spend most of their time, even if they work in buildings that are racially integregated (even if the higher up you get in power, the more white and male it gets). However, the average American even works in racially segregated environments--often simply called a division of labor that just so happens to place people of certain races in certain divisions.

This is a racially segregated society that separates people based on race, even if they are of the same socioeconomic and family backgrounds. That's race and not culture. There is still a such as the "racial tipping point."

This society is not becoming more racially integrated. It is becoming more segregated. Both official and unofficial data tells those of us who study this and related social issues that, as well as observations in the majority of communities in this country. Your son's high school is racially integrated but most high schools in this country are not. And being in a racially integrated high school does not mean that kids bring their friend of other races home to meet their parents or that parents really know who their kids are mingling with. The difference between "school friend" and "real friend." And...no...I don't want to read more about your son's school and his friends. But I'm sure he's a great kid at a cool school. ;)

You all feel free to go back to discussing rush stuff. But I'll post again if race is discussed some more. :)

[srmom]

does not mean that kids bring their friend of other races home to meet their parents or that parents really know who their kids are mingling with

last thing I'll say too ;)

But, actually, they do. They all run in a pack and they eat all my food, so, trust me, I do know whose raiding my pantry, and it includes "all" the guys, including the minority ones. And I love them all - although I wish they would keep their hands off my 100 calorie popcorn and oreos!

I hope it's not as bad as you make it seem. I cannot go out to movies or restaurants where I don't see multiple racially mixed couples. My sister in law is hispanic, with a wonderful huge family that she brought with her into our Irish Catholic brood.

Maybe it's because I live in a huge metropollitan city that has been named by many African American publications as one of the best places to live in the US in terms of opportunities and such. but I think it also is because it just isn't such a big deal here.

[DSTCHAOS]

I hope it's not as bad as you make it seem.

It is, especially in huge metropolitan areas that African American publications said are great places to live. The fact that the publications highlight these places also speaks volumes.

Black Enterprise is a great magazine and here's their criteria:
The editors weighed the following criteria as it pertained to
African Americans in each city: median household income, percentage of
households earning more than $100,000, percentage of businesses owned,
percentage of college graduates, unemployment rates, home loan rejections,
and homeownership rates.

So this criteria and other criteria such as cultural activities and a racially heterogenous population do not solve the problem, or reduce the prevalance, of racial segregation.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/04-16-2007/0004566573&EDATE=MON+Apr+16+2007+04:30+PM

This is TRULY a thread hijack as it has nothing to do with the original thread hijack. Srmom, feel free to PM me if you don't want to post your response. :)

[nittanyalum]

http://phumphries.com/forums/images/smilies/killtard.gif

*my head exploding*

[DSTCHAOS]

Or you could've typed about the original thread topic, genius.

[SWTXBelle]

Anyone have an idea to get this back on topic?


Hey, I tried!

[nittanyalum]

Hey, I tried!
Several people did. (to no avail)

[ladygreek]

Maybe it's because I live in a huge metropollitan city that has been named by many African American publications as one of the best places to live in the US in terms of opportunities and such. but I think it also is because it just isn't such a big deal here.
Do you by chance live in the Twin Cities, MN?

[DSTCHAOS]

Several people did. (to no avail)

And some of us just announced their head exploded. :)

[nittanyalum]

And some of us just announced their head exploded. :)
Yes, but first, on p. 12, I posted this:
Wow how did this thread get to this ^^^ from this:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/JoeyPorsche911/P3240463.jpg

I actually miss Fratty's list of what to wear and what size/type/look of female to be seen in the company of...

[DSTCHAOS]

Yes, but first, on p. 12, I posted this:

Oh that was your attempt? What a poor one. It's obvious how we got here and I'm sure you miss the original topic.

So post something that brings the thread back, don't just remind the thread that it detoured.

[nittanyalum]

Wow. Yes, ma'am!

[SWTXBelle]

http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/1/30/dabunnyfoofoo128462277460156250.jpg

[TSteven]

Here's the list, feel free to add on or argue against these.

1.) Wearing jean shorts (SECDomination probably sees a lot of these :D). You will not get a bid... jean shorts were [marginally] cool about 10 years ago, now they are trashy and redneck.
2.) Being overly cocky, nobody wants a pledge who thinks that they are too good to perform menial tasks, see #7
3.) One word answers. Be conversational, social skills are the most important thing that somebody can possess. The importance of this skill can not be stressed enough.
4.) Deleted
5.) Getting drunktaneous at rush events. Fraternities do not want people with no self control, it becomes a huge risk to pledge someone who can't control themselves.
6.) Do not hook up with girls at rush events unless they are of the highest quality and you have checked to make sure that they are not an active's girlfriend or even an active's potential girlfriend. Nothing is worse than pissing off a brother or receiving the nickname "free willy" in the first week of pledgeship.
7.) Trying too hard. You do not need to convince the brothers that you are the coolest person ever and they should initiate you on the spot. Be yourself and if you are a fit in that particular organization then you will receive a bid. Have faith in the fraternity, they have been doing this way longer than you.
8.) Name dropping. Goes in line with trying too hard. If you are well connected and friends with a lot of the actives then the brothers will tell the people on bid team this, you don't need to mention it.
9.) Spending less than 45 minutes at a given house. If you want a bid then you have to show the brothers that you're serious. Spend time at the house getting to know people, even if you don't pledge there you can make connections that last for a while. (I get free pizza because of somebody I met in another fraternity during rush, we really hit it off). Meet every brother that you can, the more, the better.

Tips to impress, now that you know what to avoid doing, here are a few pointers that may get you bonus points.
1.) Bring attractive girls with you. This is the absolute best way to get attention and respect from the actives. Find the best looking girls that you know from high school or whatever and bring them with you when you rush.
2.) Go to the post-rush events (if they have them) AND show that you are socially adept. The most important quality in pledges (and arguably in life) is the ability to socialize with everyone (brothers, girls, alumni, parents, etc.)
3.) Have a lot of knowledge and the ability to carry on conversations.
4.) Use manners. If you are offered food, take it. Hold the door for women and don't swear with any women in earshot, basic things that your mother has been teaching you since you were little.

The few things in italics may not apply to you, the rest of these apply to everybody.

If we may, time to head back to the program...

[TSteven]

Yes, but first, on p. 12, I posted this:

For the love of all that is holy, please stop posting that. I get the hibie jibies every time it pops up. :eek:

[srmom]

Getting drunktaneous

I'll pass that along - along with the advice to not speak like this.. EVER.

[gtdxeric]

Stop talking about boozing it up. Unless you tell us otherwise, everyone assumes you drink, and nobody cares how much.

Also, nobody will be impressed. The guys you're talking to have seen binge drinking up close and (probably) personal, and won't be awed by your awesome high school stories about that time you and your friends got SO WASTED.

On that note, if you do spring rush your freshman year, don't get wasted at another house, then come to my house with your friends who are brothers, then puke on the floor. Game over.

[nate2512]

Hm...and i never flinched at seeing the word drunktaneous

[fantASTic]

Hm...and i never flinched at seeing the word drunktaneous

Well, you ARE a fraternity member in the SEC [right? I think so?] as opposed to a mom of someone.

You clearly know NOTHING about what to say at Greek rush events, duh.

;)

[nate2512]

Also, nobody will be impressed. The guys you're talking to have seen binge drinking up close and (probably) personal, and won't be awed by your awesome high school stories about that time you and your friends got SO WASTED.

On that note, if you do spring rush your freshman year, don't get wasted at another house, then come to my house with your friends who are brothers, then puke on the floor. Game over.

On that note, I could also care less how good at beer pong you are. No matter how good you are, I'm better anyway. Same with flip cup.

[macallan25]

And KA Society is racist... plain and simple. I have no desire to be a part of that organization and that is the only reason. They wear CSA uniforms because they were founded by Robert E Lee. They have a southern cross on their house, re enact a civil war battle every year, and got in trouble for spreading cotton on a black fraternity's lawn a few years back. These guys ARE stuck in 1865. I'm pretty sure they are the same at every school too. Most southern fraternities aren't like this though.
They are obviously not people that I want to associate with but they still have a right to have their own private organization. Any claim by them of not being racist is a boldfaced lie though.

This is one of the most dumb fucking posts I have ever read on here.

Although I am not a KA......I have several friends that are at many different schools. In my experience, them and the other men in their respective chapters are nothing but stand up, respectful gentlemen.

KA "Order" was also not founded by Robert E. Lee. Good call though.

.....and how the hell does wearing a Civil War costume and going to a party with a date, who is dressed in an Antebellum style ball gown, a sign that you are a racist?

[nate2512]

This is one of the most dumb fucking posts I have ever read on here.

Although I am not a KA......I have several friends that are at many different schools. In my experience, them and the other men in their respective chapters are nothing but stand up, respectful gentlemen.

KA "Order" was also not founded by Robert E. Lee. Good call though.

.....and how the hell does wearing a Civil War costume and going to a party with a date, who is dressed in an Antebellum style ball gown, a sign that you are a racist?

Here we go again.

[srmom]

do people really use the word "drunktaneous" in a conversation? Just curious.

I've got kids at UF and UT and have never heard that word. It just seems so affected and over the top.

[nate2512]

do people really use the word "drunktaneous" in a conversation? Just curious.

Occasionally, when you are looking for a word to define exactly how overly drunk you were, but simply saying you were drunk just doesnt cut it. drunktaneous is an excellent addition to anyones fratty vocabulary.

[catiebug]

<<snort>>

drunktaneous is an excellent addition to anyones fratty vocabulary.

[FSUZeta]

drunktaneous-spontaneously drunk(?)

[nate2512]

drunktaneous-spontaneously drunk(?)

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=92521
See post #7 by 4est.

http://frattinghard.com/fratty-dictionary/
That has a nice little definition of it.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drunktaneous
This one has a varied definition of it.

http://blog.midwestfrat.com/fratcabulary/
Yet another.

[fantASTic]

do people really use the word "drunktaneous" in a conversation? Just curious.

I've got kids at UF and UT and have never heard that word. It just seems so affected and over the top.

Heh...maybe it's because they don't go around telling their mom how hammered they got last weekend?

[AlphaFrog]

Heh...maybe it's because they don't go around telling their mom how hammered they got last weekend?

I would have...but then again, my dad come to visit me at college when I was still underage and asked me which bar we could go to that doesn't card.

Although really, I probably have drunk as much alcohol in my entire life as many college kids do their freshman year. I like to drink every now and then, but it's just not the be-all-to-end-all that some college underclassmen see it as.

[catiebug]

For my freshman dorm room, my mom bought me a blender so I could make margaritas. I was 21 (almost 22 - I started school late) and she knew no alcohol was allowed in the dorms.

She didn't come visit that often, but when she did, that was usually about the only time it got used.

I would have...but then again, my dad come to visit me at college when I was still underage and asked me which bar we could go to that doesn't card.

Although really, I probably have drunk as much alcohol in my entire life as many college kids do their freshman year. I like to drink every now and then, but it's just not the be-all-to-end-all that some college underclassmen see it as.

[nate2512]

I would have...but then again, my dad come to visit me at college when I was still underage and asked me which bar we could go to that doesn't card.

Hm...where I am from if we are with our parent, we can drink legally at 18.

[PhiGam]

drunktaneous-spontaneously drunk(?)
Yeah, its a kind of drunk where someone gets really obnoxious and often embarasses themselves.

[bowsandtoes]

As for rush mistakes, never make fun of an active, even if you're just messing around and you think they're your friend. Because even if they do give you a bid, it will come back to bite you in a few months. One of my pledge brothers found this out the hard way.

[FSUZeta]

nate and phigam, thanks for the explanation of drunktaneous. nate, i lol'ed at the definations in the links you posted. too funny.

[srmom]

Heh...maybe it's because they don't go around telling their mom how hammered they got last weekend?

You're probably right, although I sometimes infer more than they think they are implying. Picture mom with fingers in ears saying "lalalalal, I'm not hearing you!"

I'll have to brush up on my lingo - but I still think some of those things listed under the definitions are a tad ridiculous, albeit funny (and when you are older, you'll cringe at the thought that you spoke that way). But that's all part of aging.;)

[AlphaFrog]

Hm...where I am from if we are with our parent, we can drink legally at 18.

I don't think that's the case in Illinois. I don't think you could even get a tattoo WITH parental permission until you were 21.

[southernfrat]

Back on topic, do not ever wear a hoodie

[AGDee]

Hm...where I am from if we are with our parent, we can drink legally at 18.

What country are you in? I ask because, that is not true anywhere in the United States. There may be places that don't card you if you're with a parent, but that doesn't mean it is legal.

[AlphaFrog]

What country are you in? I ask because, that is not true anywhere in the United States. There may be places that don't card you if you're with a parent, but that doesn't mean it is legal.

I've *HEARD* that it's true in Wisconsin. In fact, my best friend from highschool's brother got married when he was 20 and his wife was 21, and from what she said, they could take their marriage license into a bar with them, and since she was of age, and his legal gardian, he could drink with her permission.

Now, like I said, though - 2nd hand story, I don't know how much stock I'd put in it.

[nittanyalum]

Just to reiterate what has already been said, DO NOT WEAR JEAN SHORTS TO RUSH!

For all of you laughing at the jorts problem we have...

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v181/78/107/568855840/n568855840_605312_3767.jpg (http://ufl.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=605312&id=568855840)

Those are our pledges going announcing to the sororities.
Based on how much ridicule you heap on those who wear them, I'm going to say it looks like you guys are hazing those poor pledges... ;)

Ok, and a sincere clarification request --- I notice that all of the "jorts" in this picture are actually cut off jeans, which I admit, are cheap-and-tacky-looking. So is that what you really consider a "jort"? Or are store-bought shorts that are made of denim still just as abhorred?

I do like the white crew socks with top siders look, though. Very sexy.

[FSUZeta]

Just to reiterate what has already been said, DO NOT WEAR JEAN SHORTS TO RUSH!

For all of you laughing at the jorts problem we have...

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v181/78/107/568855840/n568855840_605312_3767.jpg (http://ufl.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=605312&id=568855840)

Those are our pledges going announcing to the sororities.

hilarious!! your chapter must have a great sense of humor.

[bowsandtoes]

If it's a rule to not wear makeup don't think you're hotshit because you're hanging out wih a cute frat brother wearing makeup. We find out everything. Rules are made for a reason it's to show how much respect you have for urself as well as the Greek organization you wish to be a part of.

Makeup? What, do you go to school in San Fransico or something?

[UGAalum94]

Makeup? What, do you go to school in San Fransico or something?

I don't know of any NPC groups ever doing it, but when I was in school and intake and pledging for NPHC groups were different, it seems like there were some grooming rules when people were on line.

ETA: I think she was talking about women.

[bowsandtoes]

Grooming I can understand, we expect our pledges to be clean shaven, clean hair cut, etc.

But why or why would I guy, especially someone attempting to join a fraternity ever wear makeup?

Edit: nevermind, I reread the original post, for some reason I thought the author was a guy which completly threw me off. In light of her gender, it makes much more sense now.

[catiebug]

I think it's a case of "Eats, Shoots and Leaves (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592400876)."

I think she meant it to read this way: If it's a rule to not wear makeup, don't think you're hot shit because you're hanging out with a cute frat brother when you are wearing makeup.

<my edits in red>

Grooming I can understand, we expect our pledges to be clean shaven, clean hair cut, etc.

But why or why would I guy, especially someone attempting to join a fraternity ever wear makeup?

[catiebug]

SpiNeLLi--

Please learn that commas are your friends.
;)

LOL yes I am a girl and I am dying at the thought of fraternity brothers wearing makeup or even better being forbiden to wear it lol. But I was speaking in terms of Sorority hopefuls breaking rules in front of Any Greek member but fraternity brothers specifically in the sense of wearing makeup when it's against the rules.

[PhiGam]

Just to reiterate what has already been said, DO NOT WEAR JEAN SHORTS TO RUSH!

For all of you laughing at the jorts problem we have...

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v181/78/107/568855840/n568855840_605312_3767.jpg (http://ufl.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=605312&id=568855840)

Those are our pledges going announcing to the sororities.
I definitely saw that on my friend's facebook page. If I ever get his password it will be his default.

[PhiGam]

Based on how much ridicule you heap on those who wear them, I'm going to say it looks like you guys are hazing those poor pledges... ;)

Ok, and a sincere clarification request --- I notice that all of the "jorts" in this picture are actually cut off jeans, which I admit, are cheap-and-tacky-looking. So is that what you really consider a "jort"? Or are store-bought shorts that are made of denim still just as abhorred?

I do like the white crew socks with top siders look, though. Very sexy.
Denim shorts are a no no. Short ones are redneck and long ones are urban, either way its not the style of dress that fraternities down here strive for.

[nittanyalum]

Denim shorts are a no no. Short ones are redneck and long ones are urban, either way its not the style of dress that fraternities down here strive for.
Ok, that's what I was wondering, if all denim was the debil or just clothing that was made with a handy pair of shears. I had assumed it was the former before seeing the picture, but the guys in just cut-offs threw me a little bit.

[SthrnZeta]

Just to reiterate what has already been said, DO NOT WEAR JEAN SHORTS TO RUSH!

For all of you laughing at the jorts problem we have...

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v181/78/107/568855840/n568855840_605312_3767.jpg (http://ufl.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=605312&id=568855840)

Those are our pledges going announcing to the sororities.

That's actually kinda cute (hazing!) - you know the sorority women got a huge kick outta that, not to mention a good laugh :D

[macallan25]

I'm actually surprised some GC All-Star hasn't made a serious comment about the "hazing" going on in that picture.

[gtdxeric]

I'm actually surprised some GC All-Star hasn't made a serious comment about the "hazing" going on in that picture.

Forcing a Floridian to wear jorts is like forcing Phil Fulmer to eat a glazed donut.

[PhiGam]

Forcing a Floridian to wear jorts is like forcing Phil Fulmer to eat a glazed donut.
Change "floridian" to "gator" and I think you have a marketable bumper sticker idea.

[FSUZeta]

Forcing a Floridian to wear jorts is like forcing Phil Fulmer to eat a glazed donut.


says the ramblin wreck with the plastic pocket protector and the slide rule clipped to his belt!

[gtdxeric]

says the ramblin wreck with the plastic pocket protector and the slide rule clipped to his belt!

I think you meant "sandals with socks and calculator on his wristwatch"... nerd stereotypes have come a long way since the 70's, haha.

[KenUDiggit]

After seeing all of these, I wish I knew what I know now when I rushed!

[catiebug]

http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/2/14/fratcatisred128474831087968750.jpg

[DSTCHAOS]

That is toooo cute. Collar popped and everything. :D

When did the whole cat thing start, anyway?

[KenUDiggit]

A while back with a gray cat saying "I can has a cheezburger plz?"

[nittanyalum]

When did the whole cat thing start, anyway?
Google "LOLcats", you'll get all kinds of results. I'd never heard of them before seeing them here, either.

[TSteven]

http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/2/14/fratcatisred128474831087968750.jpg

Must be a member from up north - what with the popped collar and turquoise necklace. :cool:

[PhiGam]

Indeed

[SthrnZeta]

I first heard about the site from a co-worker at the vet clinic I work at and they're so appropriate for any situation! I luvs them!

[nate2512]

What country are you in? I ask because, that is not true anywhere in the United States. There may be places that don't card you if you're with a parent, but that doesn't mean it is legal.

No, it is not a matter of carding. It is a matter of a loophole in a law. I live in Louisiana, we are pretty good at those. You see Louisiana was the last state to adopt the legal age of 21 but after threatening to cut our federal funding lawmakers gave in, but left a few loopholes in the laws, such as the fact if you are 18 and accompanied by your parents you can legally drink. For this reason, we even have two different legal driving limits, one if you are 18 and one if you are 21, I do not know what they are.

[Benzgirl]

Indeed

How in the H would you know? When was your last trip North?
I was on campus last night and didn't see one popped collar.

[SWTXBelle]

Texas law also allows you to drink if you are underage IF you are in the presence of your parent or spouse who is over the age of 21. I had fun with this when I was first married - even though I was 21, instead of presenting my driver's license I'd give them my marriage license. Yes, I am easily amused.

[macallan25]

I've been to several places in Texas that do not allow you to drink at 18 regardless of who you are with. I've also been to several places that do. Not sure how that works but it seems like I heard that it wasn't a law, merely a loophole that allows for it.

[macallan25]

How in the H would you know? When was your last trip North?
I was on campus last night and didn't see one popped collar.

Well I've been up North and seen it a ton. The original preppy style (yes, that means popped collar) was pretty much invented in the Northeast, so it shouldn't upset you that much. It's a fact.

[SWTXBelle]

It would depend on how well-trained the bar personnel are - it is indeed legal ("the law") for underage people to drink with their parents/spouse. However, most places reserve the right to serve or not serve anyone, so I would imagine it is not "illegal" to chose not to serve a minor, even with their parents/spouse.

[fantASTic]

It would depend on how well-trained the bar personnel are - it is indeed legal ("the law") for underage people to drink with their parents/spouse. However, most places reserve the right to serve or not serve anyone, so I would imagine it is not "illegal" to chose not to serve a minor, even with their parents/spouse.

True..but why would a bar turn down business if it's legal?

[PhiGam]

How in the H would you know? When was your last trip North?
I was on campus last night and didn't see one popped collar.
My family has a summer home in Michigan, I go up there for state match play every year and stay for like two weeks (sometimes more).

[catiebug]

Biggest fraternity rush mistakes? Reading and following the advice at www.oldrow.net (http://www.oldrow.net) or www.frattinghard.com (http://www.frattinghard.com).

[bowsandtoes]

Biggest fraternity rush mistakes? Reading and following the advice at www.oldrow.net (http://www.oldrow.net) or www.frattinghard.com (http://www.frattinghard.com).

You should cut back on your bleach consumption. I'd say by about 91%.

[PhiGam]

You should cut back on your bleach consumption. I'd say by about 91%.
Exalt

[PhiGam]

Motion the floor to add hoodies and sandals with socks to the list?

[KenUDiggit]

Aye

[bowsandtoes]

Motion seconded. Also, 'jeans' should be clarified as to exclude dark colors, torn, baggy, or any other metro-like modifications. Jeans should be worn in their intended and unmolested form.
http://www.danswesternwear.com/media/wrangler/wr-13MWZGH-CowboyCutOriginalFit.jpg

[catiebug]

He needs a belt.

[LegallyBrunette]

Motion seconded. Also, 'jeans' should be clarified as to exclude dark colors, torn, baggy, or any other metro-like modifications. Jeans should be worn in their intended and unmolested form.
http://www.danswesternwear.com/media/wrangler/wr-13MWZGH-CowboyCutOriginalFit.jpg

Wow. Obviously I'm not in a fraternity, but I'm thinking this bit of advice should NOT be heeded in the Northeast. I haven't seen anyone wear jeans like this in ages.

[bowsandtoes]

Wow. Obviously I'm not in a fraternity, but I'm thinking this bit of advice should NOT be heeded in the Northeast. I haven't seen anyone wear jeans like this in ages.

They're pretty much the norm here. 'Designer' jeans should be worn by girls and girls alone. Any other perversion of the jeans detracts from their ability to serve their rightful purpose.

If you get a hole/tear in your jeans, sew it up. Baggy jeans are going to get in the way when you're working on your ranch or directing a build at the house.

[bowsandtoes]

He needs a belt.

That he does.

"My belt holds my pants up, but the belt loops hold my belt up. I don't really know what's happening down there. Who is the real hero? "
- Mitch Hedberg

[PhiGam]

Aye
You have to second a motion before voting.

[fantASTic]

You have to second a motion before voting.

Robert's Rules, you know.

[KenUDiggit]

Well I second the motion!