Dad kills daughter, 16 because she "wanted to be 'free'"

[Taualumna]

She wanted to be like any other teenage girl.

Aqsa Parvez, 16, who died Monday night after being attacked in her Mississauga home, wanted to hang out with friends instead of obeying her 5 p.m. curfew. She wanted to listen to rap, hip hop and R & B, which her parents didn't permit.



When is strict, too strict? (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/284824)

[Drolefille]

When someone dies because of it.

In all honesty the dad probably thought he was being a good father as she was the youngest of 8 and the others probably had similar rules (although the male-female rules are probably different) so even if she'd grown up with those rules until she turned 18 it's not necesssarily "too strict."

Her murder however is terrible and tragic.

[1908Revelations]

:eek:.....WTF!?!?!

[nikki1920]

wow.
What a sad story. :(

[mystikchick]

Every time I read one of these stories, I feel so angry, both because it only fuels the perception that immigrants from South Asia are somehow backwards and cling to their barbaric customs such as honor killings (and I'm not for a moment suggesting that behavior like this man's is at all permissible), and anger because the community STILL refuses to acknowledge it, to try and empower its women not to tolerate this kind of abuse, to create support networks and help women escape these situations instead of turning a blind eye. We can only be the change we want to see in the world, nobody else can do it for us, but I don't know when the day will come that the South Asian community finally says 'enough is enough, we need to do something about this problem.'

[Taualumna]

When someone dies because of it.

In all honesty the dad probably thought he was being a good father as she was the youngest of 8 and the others probably had similar rules (although the male-female rules are probably different) so even if she'd grown up with those rules until she turned 18 it's not necesssarily "too strict."

Her murder however is terrible and tragic.


You know, it's quite possible that she'd have to live with these rules even after she turned 18. With a dad like that, it would have not been likely that she'd be allowed to go away to school.

[AlphaFrog]

You know, it's quite possible that she'd have to live with these rules even after she turned 18. With a dad like that, it would have not been likely that she'd be allowed to go away to school.

This took place in Canada, and I'm not familar with Canada's laws, but I thought that 18 was still the age of "adulthood" - she may not have been "allowed" to go away for school, but there wouldn't have been anything her dad could have done to stop her at that point. The article said she had lived in a shelter, so obviously, she would have done what it takes to get out on her own, even if that means being homeless.

[Taualumna]

This took place in Canada, and I'm not familar with Canada's laws, but I thought that 18 was still the age of "adulthood" - she may not have been "allowed" to go away for school, but there wouldn't have been anything her dad could have done to stop her at that point. The article said she had lived in a shelter, so obviously, she would have done what it takes to get out on her own, even if that means being homeless.

Many of the girls killed by parents or relatives were adults over 18 years of age. In any case, when you live with your parents, whether you're 6 or 46, you're still a "child" to them and live by "their rules." Even if she lived in a shelter, it's quite possible that someone can find her, especially if she's going to school. Many immigrant communities are very tight-knit.

[Velocity_14]

This is just ridiculous!!!

[AlphaFrog]

Many of the girls killed by parents or relatives were adults over 18 years of age. In any case, when you live with your parents, whether you're 6 or 46, you're still a "child" to them and live by "their rules." Even if she lived in a shelter, it's quite possible that someone can find her, especially if she's going to school. Many immigrant communities are very tight-knit.

You're missing my point. It's possible that if she made it to 18, she would have taken off, full speed ahead - possibly to another provence on the other side of the country, and never looked back, and there would have been nothing her dad could have done to stop her.

[sageofages]

You're missing my point. It's possible that if she made it to 18, she would have taken off, full speed ahead - possibly to another provence on the other side of the country, and never looked back, and there would have been nothing her dad could have done to stop her.


right...but her *brother* tricked her into coming home for a change of clothes!!!!!! This was all premeditated! Her brother should be charged as well.

It is all about family "honor" and what constitutes disgrace. How killing your willful daughter restores family honor and removes disgrace is beyond me...

[AlphaFrog]

right...but her *brother* tricked her into coming home for a change of clothes!!!!!! This was all premeditated! Her brother should be charged as well.


I'm not sure why you quoted me, since this still has nothing to do with leaving with the intent of never returning, but since you did...

Where did you get the idea that her brother tricked her, and that the murder was premeditated? Her brother might not have been acting under direction from the father, and you can't tell either way from the article. Also, if the murder was premeditated, the father probably wouldn't have called 911.

[1908Revelations]

It is all about family "honor" and what constitutes disgrace. How killing your willful daughter restores family honor and removes disgrace is beyond me...
I totally agree! How can a parent think discipline goes to the point of death. So if you do not obey I will kill you. How about kicking them out of the house if it is too bad. I am still looking like :eek: about this story.

[sageofages]

I'm not sure why you quoted me, since this still has nothing to do with leaving with the intent of never returning, but since you did...

Where did you get the idea that her brother tricked her, and that the murder was premeditated? Her brother might not have been acting under direction from the father, and you can't tell either way from the article. Also, if the murder was premeditated, the father probably wouldn't have called 911.


If she had left with the intent to never return, why did she return to her house with her brother? Her brother brought her back to the house to "get a change of clothes", ok, granted he was acting on his father's request.

from an article: http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/14831144/detail.html

""“She got threatened by her father and her brother,” Dominiquia Holmes-Thompson told the newsaper. “He said that if she leaves, he would kill her.”""

Still that makes the meeting at the house "prearranged", does it not? Her father called 911 AFTER the assault resulting in death had occurred. She was apparently strangled or beaten. Either instance *someone* else has to inflict the injuries resulting in death.

I still don't understand how killing your daughter restores family honor.

[AlphaFrog]

If she had left with the intent to never return, why did she return to her house with her brother? Her brother brought her back to the house to "get a change of clothes", ok, granted he was acting on his father's request.


I DON'T think she had the intent never to return.

[nittanyalum]

I also don't understand, if you don't want your children to be exposed to/adopt western ways, why move to a western nation? If he was so determined to raise his children with his culture and traditions, why leave Pakistan? Because a teenager is a teenager, no matter where they are, and they will absorb and want what they're exposed to and what their friends have and get to do.

[Munchkin03]

I hope this creep burns in hell...so, pretty much the same way I feel about any "parent" who murders their child.

[Drolefille]

You know, it's quite possible that she'd have to live with these rules even after she turned 18. With a dad like that, it would have not been likely that she'd be allowed to go away to school.

Many of the girls killed by parents or relatives were adults over 18 years of age. In any case, when you live with your parents, whether you're 6 or 46, you're still a "child" to them and live by "their rules." Even if she lived in a shelter, it's quite possible that someone can find her, especially if she's going to school. Many immigrant communities are very tight-knit.

I understand that she may not have just been able to walk out the door at 18, however at 18 she could do so legally. I didn't read more on this, but it doesn't appear there was "abuse" before hand just very strict rules. But the things many parents do are emotionally abusive.

Also many abused women return home for whatever reason, even if they say they're leaving forever. Her brother may or may not have been in on the whole thing, he may have wanted to help punish her, but not kill her. Sadly a LOT of cruel things happen in families and you don't have to be an immigrant or of a minority culture to be stuck in an abusive home.

[Sedrick]

When is strict, too strict? (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/284824)
Never

[NinjaPoodle]

I totally agree! How can a parent think discipline goes to the point of death. So if you do not obey I will kill you. How about kicking them out of the house if it is too bad. I am still looking like :eek: about this story.

It makes the family look bad, shameful in the eyes of the community.

[NinjaPoodle]

I understand that she may not have just been able to walk out the door at 18, however at 18 she could do so legally.

Understood, however people(westerners) don't seem to realize had she done that, she will, for the rest of her life, be looking over her shoulder no matter where she fled to.

[Scandia]

I'm appalled and disgusted. That is not what morals and protecting your children is all about.

[AlphaFrog]

Understood, however people(westerners) don't seem to realize had she done that, she will, for the rest of her life, be looking over her shoulder no matter where she fled to.

Still seems like a better alternative than going back.

[Drolefille]

Understood, however people(westerners) don't seem to realize had she done that, she will, for the rest of her life, be looking over her shoulder no matter where she fled to.

Honestly, every one who leaves an abusive situation looks over their shoulder like that. A generalization maybe, but overall true.

[RACooper]

Best article or commentary on the tragedy and attendant debate I have seen - or at least the best one I think in hitting the right points:

Aqsa's legacy is sassy Facebook photo

In the end, she had complete control over how we'll remember her

Dec 14, 2007 04:30 AM
Antonia Zerbisias
Living columnist

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

You don't have to venture far into the good book – Genesis 3:16 in my old King James – to get the Judeo-Christian word on the role of the little woman.

We hath not come a long way baby.

This week, we learned that one of the leading contenders for the Oval Office, the former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, signed a full-page ad in USA Today way back in, oh, 1998 AD, endorsing the notion that "A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ."

Then there's ChristianDomestic Discipline.com for your Bible-thumping wife-beaters.

And let's not forget Purity Balls, those queasy-making cotillions that have dad and daughter dating and dancing while mom stays home. There, fathers pledge, hand over heart, to "choose before God to cover my daughter as her authority and protection in the area of purity. I will ... lead, guide and pray over my daughter and as the high priest in my home."

Which brings us to the shocking death of Aqsa "Axa'' Parvez, whose father Muhammad stands charged with murder. According to her friends, the Mississauga teen would not submit to his idea of Muslim purity.

You get where I am going with this?

Now obviously, anybody who kills their child has issues, to say the very least. But violent disagreements between parents and kids happen irrespective of race, religion or culture.

Growing up, I knew many girls who would sneak around with their non-ethnically approved boyfriends or hike up their skirts as soon as they left the overly watchful eye of their "this is the way it was in my backwoods village in 1953" macho dads. I have no doubt their fathers raised their hands to them.

Was that a cultural, generational or gender clash?

Does it matter? Aqsa Parvez is dead, period, full stop. But, if some people have their hate-filled way, there will be hateful calls to limit immigration from Muslim countries and to boycott Muslim business.

Oh, wait, that's already happening. I'd print the web address but it doesn't deserve the exposure.

It's a patriarchal world. Parvez was victimized in and by it.

Patriarchy crosses virtually all religions, at least those invented since men figured out their role in making babies. That's when we went from the Mother Goddess to Our Father, who art Da Boss.

Even now, too many controlling men beat or kill their women because they think it's their God-given right.

-- the rest at:
http://www.thestar.com/living/article/285396

Like the article points out it was more the backwards patriarchal cultural crap that led to this than religion, it's just that many seem over eager to point the finger at religion in this case :(

PS> For the political watchers down south: did Huckabee really say that? Because wow :eek:

[NinjaPoodle]

Best article or commentary on the tragedy and attendant debate I have seen - or at least the best one I think in hitting the right points:



Like the article points out it was more the backwards patriarchal cultural crap that led to this than religion, it's just that many seem over eager to point the finger at religion in this case :(

PS> For the political watchers down south: did Huckabee really say that? Because wow :eek:

Thanks for posting the article. My heart is sad for her and others going through the same thing.

[Taualumna]

Best article or commentary on the tragedy and attendant debate I have seen - or at least the best one I think in hitting the right points:



Like the article points out it was more the backwards patriarchal cultural crap that led to this than religion, it's just that many seem over eager to point the finger at religion in this case :(

PS> For the political watchers down south: did Huckabee really say that? Because wow :eek:


Of course it's cultural, but oftentimes, religion and culture are almost indistinguishable. Headgear (for men AND for women), for example, may not officially officially be part of a religion, but it's still considered part of a religion by certain cultures. I could start a religion that says "everyone must be well-fed" and years down the line certain people from this religion are very overweight, because they believe that being "well fed" means they need to eat a lot. Others may interpret "well-fed" as just eating well and eating enough.

Anyway, I'm surprised no one has compared any of this to Warren Jeffs/Bountiful, B.C. I just don't want people to see this case as just another child abuse/domestic abuse/violence against women case, because cultural misunderstanding may very well have played a role in Aqsa's death (unlike say, the Pickton case (http://www.thestar.com/article/284083)) In Canada, many of the higher profile victims in violence against women cases in larger cities, especially those involving a spouse or blood relative, involve either immigrant women/women whose parents are immigrants.

By the way, the girl's brother gets bail. (http://www.thestar.com/News/article/285669)

[nittanyalum]

By the way, the girl's brother gets bail. (http://www.thestar.com/News/article/285669)
Ugh. At least the father's still in jail.

[RACooper]

In Canada, many of the higher profile victims in violence against women cases in larger cities, especially those involving a spouse or blood relative, involve either immigrant women/women whose parents are immigrants.

It's a shame then that the statistics don't bear that out - if anything they point to a higher incidence of spousal abuse and homicide amongst the native populations in the Territories than that of the most heavily immigrant regions of Canada:

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/85-224-XIE/85-224-XIE2007000.pdf

[NinjaPoodle]

....if you don't want your children to be exposed to/adopt western ways, why move to a western nation?


I totally agree.

[Taualumna]

It's a shame then that the statistics don't bear that out - if anything they point to a higher incidence of spousal abuse and homicide amongst the native populations in the Territories than that of the most heavily immigrant regions of Canada:

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/85-224-XIE/85-224-XIE2007000.pdf


It's the lack of social services geared towards the population, I'd think. For native and many immigrant populations, standard/mainstream programs don't always work.

[PiKA2001]

I also don't understand, if you don't want your children to be exposed to/adopt western ways, why move to a western nation? If he was so determined to raise his children with his culture and traditions, why leave Pakistan? Because a teenager is a teenager, no matter where they are, and they will absorb and want what they're exposed to and what their friends have and get to do.

As a tolerant western nation Canada should be more sensitive to other cultures beliefs. To not let this man "honor kill" his daughter is a gross attack against his religious.........:rolleyes: