Does your chapter haze?

[Kevin]

Does your chapter haze?

Define hazing as anything which your organization or your state says is against the rules.

[Drolefille]

I'll go ahead and post because I've said before that I probably would not have stayed in a sorority that hazed me. There were rumors on campus that one of the other chapters did haze but the members were apparently very close lipped if they were. I knew people in all the sororities and SOMEONE would have known.

[ufdale]

I like the poll in this thread because it's annonymous!
My chapter doesn't haze, but I've heard rumors of other fraternities and sororities. None of my friends have ever said anything though, so the rumors are unconfirmed.

[SigKapSweetie]

Heck, no!

We did see another sorority's new members being hazed, though. I was a new member myself at the time, and I remember my big sister was furious that they were hazing. It was nearly six years ago...I wonder if they're still doing it.

[sdsuchelle]

Absolutely not. I was like, the opposite of hazed.. they showered me with gifts through my whole pledge period.

[Tom Earp]

Absolutely not. I was like, the opposite of hazed.. they showered me with gifts through my whole pledge period.


It seems that you are in the minority!:o


To many profess and others deny:o

[gphiangel624]

Absolutely not. I was like, the opposite of hazed.. they showered me with gifts through my whole pledge period.

Same with me. I was showered with gifts and attention all through my pledge period. My chapter still does the same. It was awesome.

[sdsuchelle]

It seems that you are in the minority!:o


To many profess and others deny:o

Well according to the poll I'm in the majority.

There is no way in hell I would've joined any organization that hazes. At the first sign of it, I would've been out of there.

[jon1856]

Had had to vote No due to the fact that my chapter is now closed; in part due to hazing.:mad: :(

[PrettyBoy]

I'm almost afraid to comment on this one. LOL. Put it this way, Kappa Alpha Psi is a NON HAZING fraternity. :rolleyes: Yeah o.k. uh huh. :p

When I was pledging to be a member of my frat, I do know that XYZ sorority was making their pledges sit on coke bottles for hours. Sometimes late at night after leaving the frat house I would see other XYZ sorority pledges leaving their houses crying. Professors knew who the pledges were, because sleeping in class was the norm during pledging. I saw quite a few pledges in XYZ frat and XYZ sorority who had a hard time sitting down in class too. Must have been a rough paddle night. LOL. They weren't hiding things very well.

[PrettyBoy]

Absolutely not. I was like, the opposite of hazed.. they showered me with gifts through my whole pledge period.
We didn't get showered with gifts until after pledging. I was too worn out to enjoy the gifts by then:p . LOL Oh yeah, I was worn out from studying soooooooooooo hard. LMAO.

[JonInKC]

I could be wrong, but I doubt anyone (especially women) are going to write on this thread "yeah, we haze balls". lol

[PrettyBoy]

Well according to the poll I'm in the majority.

There is no way in hell I would've joined any organization that hazes. At the first sign of it, I would've been out of there.
LOL.

[sdsuchelle]

LOL.

Why's that funny?

[PrettyBoy]

Why's that funny?
I'm not laughing at you. It was just funny at the way it sounded. That's all.

[Kevin]

I could be wrong, but I doubt anyone (especially women) are going to write on this thread "yeah, we haze balls". lol

But the poll is anonymous, the results are interesting so far.

Especially as compared with the other poll I posted.

[_Lisa_]

Absolutely not. I was like, the opposite of hazed.. they showered me with gifts through my whole pledge period.

Agreed! And I don't know one person who has been hazed, not just in my sorority but in the other GLO's on campus. (I'm sure it happens somewhere, I just don't know anyone thats been involved.)

[jon1856]

Out of the 7 Fraternity houses on my old campus, I am aware that two hazed hard core while I was there.

[Tom Earp]

Out of the 7 Fraternity houses on my old campus, I am aware that two hazed hard core while I was there.


Good point.

But the days of old have a new meaning for hazing today.

It has changed hasn't it?

So haze away and god forbid someone gets hurt or dies.:o

[macallan25]

Yes, Tom......because we all know when you haze it has to be life threatening and dangerous.

[Kevin]

Good point.

But the days of old have a new meaning for hazing today.

It has changed hasn't it?

So haze away and god forbid someone gets hurt or dies.:o

The thing is that our current risk management policies specify a lot of things that really can't carry the possibility of harm to another.

Lineups for example -- or activities which result in "mental discomfort" as most of our hazing policies specify have no possibility of causing anyone any actual harm.

I don't think I've ever heard of a chapter anywhere ever being put on probation for causing mental discomfort in a pledge though.

I hate that our policies contain such ambiguous terms. Mental discomfort can really encompass a lot. What if a brother is driving a car full of pledges and doesn't pull over the instant one of them tells him they need to go to the bathroom? Is that creating 'mental discomfort?' I think it could be.

[jadis96]

Same with me. I was showered with gifts and attention all through my pledge period. My chapter still does the same. It was awesome.

Me too, I never felt or thought I was hazed, but I had to vote that yes, my chapter hazed, because we were told that asking the new members to leave the room for voting and other things was a form of hazing. We were told that our schools policy on hazing was "singling out anyone who is not initated for any reason and seperating them". Therefore asking them to leave for ritual voting and having initated only meetings was a form of hazing on our campus. Granted, it didn't really change anything because we, and other chapters, still did it.

[jon1856]

The thing is that our current risk management policies specify a lot of things that really can't carry the possibility of harm to another.

Lineups for example -- or activities which result in "mental discomfort" as most of our hazing policies specify have no possibility of causing anyone any actual harm.

I don't think I've ever heard of a chapter anywhere ever being put on probation for causing mental discomfort in a pledge though.

I hate that our policies contain such ambiguous terms. Mental discomfort can really encompass a lot. What if a brother is driving a car full of pledges and doesn't pull over the instant one of them tells him they need to go to the bathroom? Is that creating 'mental discomfort?' I think it could be.
Kevin;
You are very correct.That is just what I meant when I posted above. Some things that we did back in the day.....today if you do it, you run into RM problems.

However, some activites of today go well beyond need or reason and those, in many cases can end up going too far and realy cause problems.

And then we have the (extreem) reactions, with sometimes vage and ambiguous terms which then starts this whole cycle over again.

[jon1856]

Good point.

But the days of old have a new meaning for hazing today.

It has changed hasn't it?

So haze away and god forbid someone gets hurt or dies.:o

Shoud have added that one of those two is long gone as is my own. The second one was had sactions on it at least twice that I have heard of. Am not sure what they currently do during pledging.

[sdsuchelle]

Me too, I never felt or thought I was hazed, but I had to vote that yes, my chapter hazed, because we were told that asking the new members to leave the room for voting and other things was a form of hazing. We were told that our schools policy on hazing was "singling out anyone who is not initated for any reason and seperating them". Therefore asking them to leave for ritual voting and having initated only meetings was a form of hazing on our campus. Granted, it didn't really change anything because we, and other chapters, still did it.

That rule is ridiculous! How the heck can you be a secret society, then?! Lame.

[Kevin]

Me too, I never felt or thought I was hazed, but I had to vote that yes, my chapter hazed, because we were told that asking the new members to leave the room for voting and other things was a form of hazing. We were told that our schools policy on hazing was "singling out anyone who is not initated for any reason and seperating them". Therefore asking them to leave for ritual voting and having initated only meetings was a form of hazing on our campus. Granted, it didn't really change anything because we, and other chapters, still did it.

Wow.

[jon1856]

That rule is ridiculous! How the heck can you be a secret society, then?! Lame.
I agree!
That is, among other things, taking matters way too far.
As a pledge, I never had a problem leaving prior to active member meetings.
Same thing happens in real world; senoir management has meetings by themselves all the time in every company I know of.

[PrettyBoy]

I'm just curious to see for those of you who have been hazed during your pledge period, does it bother you when you see new members in your org. that didn't get hazed at all?

[macallan25]

it probobly would for chapters that eliminate hazing.

[sdsuchelle]

I'm just curious to see for those of you who have been hazed during your pledge period, does it bother you when you see new members in your org. that didn't get hazed at all?

I personally think its a sign of a weak person to have the attitude "well I went through it, they should have to as well."

[SigKapSweetie]

I personally think its a sign of a weak person to have the attitude "well I went through it, they should have to as well."

I agree completely.

[DSTCHAOS]

I'm almost afraid to comment on this one. LOL. Put it this way, Kappa Alpha Psi is a NON HAZING fraternity. :rolleyes: Yeah o.k. uh huh. :p

When I was pledging to be a member of my frat, I do know that XYZ sorority was making their pledges sit on coke bottles for hours. Sometimes late at night after leaving the frat house I would see other XYZ sorority pledges leaving their houses crying. Professors knew who the pledges were, because sleeping in class was the norm during pledging. I saw quite a few pledges in XYZ frat and XYZ sorority who had a hard time sitting down in class too. Must have been a rough paddle night. LOL. They weren't hiding things very well.

Neither are you. ;)

[DSTCHAOS]

That rule is ridiculous! How the heck can you be a secret society, then?! Lame.

GLOs are not secret societies.

[twinkle555]

Absolutely not. I was like, the opposite of hazed.. they showered me with gifts through my whole pledge period.

ditto.

[sdsuchelle]

GLOs are not secret societies.

What I meant by secret was that if seperating pledges from initiated members is considered hazing, there's no way to keep ritual secret. You might as well eliminate the whole new member period.

I consider GLOs secret societies. This is a definition from dictionary.com:

"secret society 
an organization, as a fraternal society, the members of which take secret initiation oaths, share secret passwords and rites, and are bound to assist each other."

Unless you're in Delta Upsilon or other GLOs that don't keep anything secret.. umm you're in a secret society.

[GDIfly]

GLOs are not secret societies.

Since when? I'm pretty sure that most GLO's would fall under any accepted definition of "secret society."
Unless you're using a definition which is drawn so narrowly that the whole existence of an organization must be secret for it to qualify.

[REE1993]

Well... we painted a rock, made dinner for the sisters (my gramma's sauce recipe and macaroni), painted a banner that said "We love ABC" and learned a song. Is that hazing? Does it matter if a sister helped us?

[DSTCHAOS]

Since when?

Since most of our foundings. We are "societies with secrets."

"Secret societies" don't advertise their organizations and their membership like we have always done. That would negate the purpose of being in a "secret society" in which everything, including membership, is on a "need to know basis."

[DSTCHAOS]

What I meant by secret was that if seperating pledges from initiated members is considered hazing, there's no way to keep ritual secret. You might as well eliminate the whole new member period.

I consider GLOs secret societies. This is a definition from dictionary.com:

"secret society 
an organization, as a fraternal society, the members of which take secret initiation oaths, share secret passwords and rites, and are bound to assist each other."

Unless you're in Delta Upsilon or other GLOs that don't keep anything secret.. umm you're in a secret society.


I understood what you meant and I already know what the dictionaries say.

I'm sure there are some GLO members, especially some NPHCers, who understand where my distinction is coming from. ;)

[Drolefille]

I think some people feel the need to distinguish between GLOs and Secret Societies (like, I dunno Skull & Bones or something?) because pastors have preached against the latter.

Of course making a distinction is fine, but declaring that GLOs are NOT secret societies when they fit the definition seems silly. Same holds true for any other reason for denying it.

[DSTCHAOS]

I think some people feel the need to distinguish between GLOs and Secret Societies (like, I dunno Skull & Bones or something?) because pastors have preached against the latter.

Some people do it because they have experience with actual "secret societies" and the distinction helps to keep it all in perspective. Some people also do it to knock GLO members off of their high horses when they try to act so elite, undercover, and exclusive--as if there aren't thousands of college students walking around with XYZ sweatshirts on. Of course nonmembers aren't allowed to see a lot of stuff, such as ritual, but there are tons of "nonsecret" organizations that don't let nonmembers see the innerworkings.

Of course making a distinction is fine

Cool.... :)

[OwtLawz4lIfe]

Do we really have to have this conversation, lol...if you would really like to know Hazing is outlawed in most states if not all. But, Discrection in key!!! Iota Phi Theta Fraternity Incorporated is an non-hazing fraternity but we an intake process as most BGLO's and GLO's do. :D

[Drolefille]

Did you basically just say "you shouldn't haze but just keep it quiet" and "we don't haze but we do" ?

[OwtLawz4lIfe]

Did you basically just say "you shouldn't haze but just keep it quiet" and "we don't haze but we do" ?

Im sorry was that for me to reply to?

[Unregistered-]

Did you basically just say "you shouldn't haze but just keep it quiet" and "we don't haze but we do" ?

That's the impression I got as well.

[AlexMack]

Im sorry was that for me to reply to?

Good job paying attention smart one. Yes.

[sdsuchelle]

this post makes me sick. hazing goes against everything brother/sisterhood stands for. it's just not right. "discrection is key", jesus. that's so wrong. don't do it! it's not worth it.

Seriously...

And how is exactly is that post discreet?! haha.

[Unregistered-]

Do we really have to have this conversation, lol...if you would really like to know Hazing is outlawed in most states if not all. But, Discrection in key!!! Iota Phi Theta Fraternity Incorporated is an non-hazing fraternity but we an intake process as most BGLO's and GLO's do. :D

Quoting so you know that this is directed to you..

Reading this over again, you're not doing your fraternity any favors by posting stuff like this.

If you really believe that "discretion is key," then what you should have said was "My fraternity does not haze." and leave it at that. :)

[Drolefille]

Beating people up with bats is illegal in most states if not all, but DISCRETION is KEY! Alpha Beta Gamma Delta is a non-assault fraternity, but we do have our own little process ;) ;) ;) like every other GLO.

See what we're talking about?
You really make Iota look bad...

[PhrozenGod01]

You really make Iota look bad...

That's not hard.












I'm kidding!!!!

[RU OX Alum]

i remember i went back either last year or the year before and one of the pledges was like "damn, this would be easier if you were like other frats and hazed instead of this work to be in the chapter. I'd rather just drink untill I puke or do push ups or something." lol, yeah.

that illustrates; we're harder to get into because we don't haze, saying "here, eat this and be my bitch for a semester and you get letters" is a cop out

[Kevin]

i remember i went back either last year or the year before and one of the pledges was like "damn, this would be easier if you were like other frats and hazed instead of this work to be in the chapter. I'd rather just drink untill I puke or do push ups or something." lol, yeah.

that illustrates; we're harder to get into because we don't haze, saying "here, eat this and be my bitch for a semester and you get letters" is a cop out

Of course, many groups would tell you that if you treated pledges any differently in than initiates with respect to chapter function, etc., you're hazing. According to some groups' and campus' policies here, your chapter hazes -- I find that ridiculous, but it's true.

[RU OX Alum]

Of course, many groups would tell you that if you treated pledges any differently in than initiates with respect to chapter function, etc., you're hazing. According to some groups' and campus' policies here, your chapter hazes -- I find that ridiculous, but it's true.


how is making them know the history hazing? see, that's the thing.

other chapters= eat something gross
us= know why we're here

and we're seen as one of the harder ones to get into

but if telling them if they act like pledges from other chapters they will get black balled is "hazing" then i guess i'm glad i'm an alumnus, and don't have to deal with this stupid isht anymore.

[Kevin]

how is making them know the history hazing? see, that's the thing.

other chapters= eat something gross
us= know why we're here

and we're seen as one of the harder ones to get into

but if telling them if they act like pledges from other chapters they will get black balled is "hazing" then i guess i'm glad i'm an alumnus, and don't have to deal with this stupid isht anymore.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think what y'all are doing is great.

It's just that other organizations would call what you do "hazing" -- and I find the fact that there is truth in my statement to be absurd.

[RU OX Alum]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think what y'all are doing is great.

It's just that other organizations would call what you do "hazing" -- and I find the fact that there is truth in my statement to be absurd.

yeah, i got what you meant...some people think that the only way to be "real greek" is to get smacked around with a paddle or be forced to do jumping jacks naked in the snow, and then there's another group that thinks that anyone who wants to should be initated right away without question or hesitation....my chapter walks in the middle, and crazy drivers from both sides will try to swerve into us

[macallan25]

....and the school that believes that hazing is comprised of "getting smacked around with a paddle or being forced to do jumping jacks in the snow".........are morons and shouldn't be allowed to speak. I can think of a few that fall into this category.

[RU OX Alum]

glad we're off hook then, admin wouldn't do anything until someone is dead...seriously, would anyone here want to make some one eat used kittylitter. I would black ball everyone invovled in that scenario, I don't want fecalphiliacs for brothers

[DSTCHAOS]

You really make Iota look bad...

Although there are only 2 Iotas in the world, this poster isn't powerful enough to make an entire fraternity look bad. Or at least he shouldn't be made to be that powerful.

[Drolefille]

Although there are only 2 Iotas in the world, this poster isn't powerful enough to make an entire fraternity look bad. Or at least he shouldn't be made to be that powerful.
Except we all know that we are reprsentatives of our GLOs. Even if he only lowers its reputation slightly, he still does it.

[KSUViolet06]

My chapter doesn't haze.

[AOIINewbie]

My chapter doesn't haze. Quite the contrary. I got nothing but gifts, and encouragement during my new member period.

[NikkiB]

The thing is that our current risk management policies specify a lot of things that really can't carry the possibility of harm to another.

Lineups for example -- or activities which result in "mental discomfort" as most of our hazing policies specify have no possibility of causing anyone any actual harm.

I don't think I've ever heard of a chapter anywhere ever being put on probation for causing mental discomfort in a pledge though.

I hate that our policies contain such ambiguous terms. Mental discomfort can really encompass a lot. What if a brother is driving a car full of pledges and doesn't pull over the instant one of them tells him they need to go to the bathroom? Is that creating 'mental discomfort?' I think it could be.


My sorority has rules that specifically state that they cannot do anything to pledges that they would not do themselves, not want to tell an administrator or parent about, or not want to perform in front of an administrator or parent. It also says this includes mental distress, or emotional discomfort. I think that's a school wide sorority policy as well, and FSU is a big greek school. I, too, was showered with gifts my entire pledge period..I still am, lol.

[DSTCHAOS]

Even if he only lowers its reputation slightly


But he doesn't, as far as I'm concerned.

[tunatartare]

The question was does your chapter haze? He made it clear that his chapter does. It's not your chapter or your sorority so get over it. 15 other people responded to the poll saying that their chapters do haze, so clearly he's not the only one.

[Drolefille]

But he doesn't, as far as I'm concerned.
Such is your opinion. But that wasn't the point.
The question was does your chapter haze? He made it clear that his chapter does. It's not your chapter or your sorority so get over it. 15 other people responded to the poll saying that their chapters do haze, so clearly he's not the only one.
It was more the "we don't haze, but we do" that caught my attention. Don't be a hypocrite about it. If you're going to say that your hazing is a positive force for your pledges then stand behind that. Several other GCers manage to do so and even if you disagree w/ them, they're being honest about it.

[DSTCHAOS]

Such is your opinion. But that wasn't the point.

What was the point?

It was more the "we don't haze, but we do" that caught my attention. Don't be a hypocrite about it. If you're going to say that your hazing is a positive force for your pledges then stand behind that. Several other GCers manage to do so and even if you disagree w/ them, they're being honest about it.

Does he really have to stand behind it until you all approve of his defense? He shouldn't have shared in the first place but he darn sure doesn't have to defend himself against nonIotas. That doesn't mean I agree with him or disagree with him. I just don't see how his posts translate to a slight against Iotas, in general.

[RU OX Alum]

its not a slight against them, but it does kind of cast Iota in a negative light, just like the JHU situation makes Sigma Chi look bad. Whether you agree or disagree or what your opinion is kind of doesn't matter in that respect, because it will cause [some] people to look at them negatively.

[tunatartare]

While I don't necessarily agree with the content of his post, no organization is perfect. There are plenty of Iotas on this board. If they think that his post makes Iota look bad, they should be the ones calling him out, not every other person on GC.

[OwtLawz4lIfe]

Good job paying attention smart one. Yes.

LOL, what Im saying is we don't haze at all. We have an intake process thier is a very big difference between the two that I cannot and will not go into great detail over the internet. Movies like "School Daze", "Skulls", and "The Hazzing" are films that take what really happens too far. I know it may sound confusing, but ceremonies and the process is a thing that if you're going through it then you know, if you're not going through a process then you skated. Skating is not cool! lol...

[AlphaFrog]

I think it was meant to be a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more" type statement. Or, saying "We don't do X" while shaking your head. I don't believe he was trying to be hypocritical, regardless of our opinion of the act of hazing.

[OwtLawz4lIfe]

Im sorry but who is the Iota that everyone is talking about? B/c if it is me I will answer any question that is directed towards me.

[RU OX Alum]

I forget who it was, and it really wasn't as big of a deal as some people make out, just a loose lipped commet about what a certain chapter does

[DSTCHAOS]

its not a slight against them, but it does kind of cast Iota in a negative light, just like the JHU situation makes Sigma Chi look bad. Whether you agree or disagree or what your opinion is kind of doesn't matter in that respect, because it will cause [some] people to look at them negatively.

Well it actually does matter when people disagree with this notion because the premise of your post is that people are easily influenced and opinions matter.

If their opinions about Sigma Chi as a whole matters then it's important for others to say "that's dumb to make the actions of one JHU Sigma Chi be a negative against such a great, big organization."

[Drolefille]

Im sorry but who is the Iota that everyone is talking about? B/c if it is me I will answer any question that is directed towards me.

It is in fact you. Your later comment sort of clarified things but that's why I asked you the question in the first place.
Did you basically just say "you shouldn't haze but just keep it quiet" and "we don't haze but we do" ?

How discreet is it to say "wink wink wink" ? See the other posts that replied to you. It's cool that you have a pledging "process" and only you can determine if that is hazing. But I maintain that it makes you look bad.

As another example of a bad reputation: Pikes at Howard. People were opposed due to a racist image (among other things) and yes, it's easy to say that Pikes aren't like that, but the image was still there and deeply ingrained in some people. I don't think less of Iota, but I think it presents a negative image.

[RU OX Alum]

Well it actually does matter when people disagree with this notion because the premise of your post is that people are easily influenced and opinions matter.

If their opinions about Sigma Chi as a whole matters then it's important for others to say "that's dumb to make the actions of one JHU Sigma Chi be a negative against such a great, big organization."

no, it doesn't...it doesn't matter at all if the allegeagtions are true, from a public image stand point, because the damage is done.

[DSTCHAOS]

no, it doesn't...it doesn't matter at all if the allegeagtions are true, from a public image stand point, because the damage is done.

I disagree completely. Most people are idiots but they are idiots with short attention spans.

[UnoriginalErin]

Delta Nu Psi was created after our founder had a horrible experience at a fraternity's rush. He still won't tell anyone what happened.

Because of this, Delta was formed as staunchly anti-hazing.


Sure, we have our pledges greet current brothers and sisters, but that's more their chance to embaress us by yelling to us across the DC or in classes. We take them on hikes, give them activities to do, make them work-out to "Sweatin' To The Oldies" during Hell Week, but at least 4 brothers and sisters (as well as their pledge-masters) take part as well.

We make sure they have 2 library hours each day, aren't forced to stay up past 1 AM, never force them to drink (Hell, they're not even allowed to drink during the process until they get bigs), and do not allow them to skip classes.


Hell, the only time I was paddled during my pledge-process, it was entirely consentual. And it was great :cool:

[tunatartare]

We make them work-out to "Sweatin' To The Oldies" during Hell Week.
Not hazing at all.

[UnoriginalErin]

Not hazing at all.
Delta cares about the health of our brothers and sisters. ;)

[OwtLawz4lIfe]

It is in fact you. Your later comment sort of clarified things but that's why I asked you the question in the first place.


How discreet is it to say "wink wink wink" ? See the other posts that replied to you. It's cool that you have a pledging "process" and only you can determine if that is hazing. But I maintain that it makes you look bad.

As another example of a bad reputation: Pikes at Howard. People were opposed due to a racist image (among other things) and yes, it's easy to say that Pikes aren't like that, but the image was still there and deeply ingrained in some people. I don't think less of Iota, but I think it presents a negative image.

Ok, let me get some clarification from you. Define Hazing. What perception do you have of Iota's? What makes me look bad, be specific (winking and noding or my comments on other issues0. I stand by what I beileve in and will not change my thoughts on anything unless I am wrong. Im not one to sit around and not admitt when I am wrong. So, let me know what is the real issue is?

[macallan25]

You are barking up the wrong tree. Most people view hazing as entirely negative....and something that is always dangerous, life threatening, etc. etc. Furthermore......a good majority of the people that comment on hazing are all women...who have little to no clue about anything Fraternity.

[Drolefille]

Ok, let me get some clarification from you. Define Hazing. What perception do you have of Iota's? What makes me look bad, be specific (winking and noding or my comments on other issues0. I stand by what I beileve in and will not change my thoughts on anything unless I am wrong. Im not one to sit around and not admitt when I am wrong. So, let me know what is the real issue is?


I suggest you read the other responses to your post as well as the whole thread. I don't have any real perception of Iota and I'm not against non-harmful "hazing" (though it is still illegal)

[DSTCHAOS]

You are barking up the wrong tree. Most people view hazing as entirely negative....and something that is always dangerous, life threatening, etc. etc. Furthermore......a good majority of the people that comment on hazing are all women...who have little to no clue about anything Fraternity.

On GreekChat.com? Correct.

[OwtLawz4lIfe]

You are barking up the wrong tree. Most people view hazing as entirely negative....and something that is always dangerous, life threatening, etc. etc. Furthermore......a good majority of the people that comment on hazing are all women...who have little to no clue about anything Fraternity.

ok, now I didn't make any sexist comments leave me out of that one.

If you're suggesting that I am barking up the wrong tree, talk to the person that asked the question. I stand by what I said at first those who went througn an Intake process know what I mean. You have no need to ask about hazing because there is none. You read about hazing the paper, and last time I checked Iota Phi Theta Fraternity Inc. has NEVER been in a law suit for hazing look it up. So let me let the entire GC know now, 43 yrs going strong and will not let any idiots screw that up.

[DSTCHAOS]

ok, now I didn't make any sexist comments leave me out of that one.

If you're suggesting that I am barking up the wrong tree, talk to the person that asked the question. I stand by what I said at first those who went througn an Intake process know what I mean. You have no need to ask about hazing because there is none. You read about hazing the paper, and last time I checked Iota Phi Theta Fraternity Inc. has NEVER been in a law suit for hazing look it up. So let me let the entire GC know now, 43 yrs going strong and will not let any idiots screw that up.

A lot of men on GreekChat think that sorority women have their heads up their asses and don't know much about anything besides dancing for fraternity boys and baking cookies while taking shots. That's based on the sorority women they think they know.

There actually can be forms of hazing during a membership intake process. It happens all over the country but is brushed off because it doesn't occur within the context of an illegal pledge process.

Iota has never been in a law suit but that doesn't translate to hazing not being an issue for Iota at a national level. It is just the smallest and youngest NPHC organization. A lot of things get settled in-house and with little publicity when you're small and centralized. It would appear that all are doing something right for now--until loose lips sink ships and Iotas go around bragging about how they have been hazing for 43 years without a lawsuit. Also there are fewer men pursuing and become Iotas--good thing. So there's a quality assurance process that exists for you all that ended for much larger organizations years ago. But I give Iota about 5-10 more years before carelessness in the midst of a zero tolerance culture gets a hold of it, as well.

[macallan25]

ok, now I didn't make any sexist comments leave me out of that one.

If you're suggesting that I am barking up the wrong tree, talk to the person that asked the question. I stand by what I said at first those who went througn an Intake process know what I mean. You have no need to ask about hazing because there is none. You read about hazing the paper, and last time I checked Iota Phi Theta Fraternity Inc. has NEVER been in a law suit for hazing look it up. So let me let the entire GC know now, 43 yrs going strong and will not let any idiots screw that up.


I think you misunderstood me. I was actually trying to give you some advice. I am from a very strong, well known, well established chapter in the South......and I absolutely condone hazing, so long as it isn't dangerous, etc. Every strong chapter I know of hazes. That may not be true for the North, West, etc........but it certainly is for Southern fraternities.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying....I dunno. I'm confused now.

[macallan25]

On GreekChat.com? Correct.


I think you are about the only one that understands where I am coming from.

[jon1856]

I think you are about the only one that understands where I am coming from.

Brother, I have learned to understand where you are coming from:D .

There are several other threads here in RM that people, with an interest in what POV's and thoughts on hazing are here in GC, should read up on.

[OwtLawz4lIfe]

A lot of men on GreekChat think that sorority women have their heads up their asses and don't know much about anything besides dancing for fraternity boys and baking cookies while taking shots. That's based on the sorority women they think they know.

There actually can be forms of hazing during a membership intake process. It happens all over the country but is brushed off because it doesn't occur within the context of an illegal pledge process.

Iota has never been in a law suit but that doesn't translate to hazing not being an issue for Iota at a national level. It is just the smallest and youngest NPHC organization. A lot of things get settled in-house and with little publicity when you're small and centralized. It would appear that all are doing something right for now--until loose lips sink ships and Iotas go around bragging about how they have been hazing for 43 years without a lawsuit. Also there are fewer men pursuing and become Iotas--good thing. So there's a quality assurance process that exists for you all that ended for much larger organizations years ago. But I give Iota about 5-10 more years before carelessness in the midst of a zero tolerance culture gets a hold of it, as well.

Ok, did not know thatz how men on GC felt about sorrorities. Thatz foul! Well, we all feel that zero tolerance has and will weaken the intake process this is true. But, I think that size of your organization does not matter. I can only speak on the history of the NPHC. Those orgs came around years before Iota Phi Theta fraternity founders were born. That was a time were pledging above ground took place. A time where you went class locked up marching across campus with your line brothers or sisters. Also a time when you could haze in public, dorms, dinning halls, the yard, and anywhere they felt like it at that time. Yes, this no longer happens. But, other that have replied are correct it's many different forms of hazing. My understanding on of hazing is ANYTHING that you do AGAINST YOUR WILL AND OR WITHOUT YOUR EXPRESSED CONSENT. So if you choose to participate in anything that is a form of hazing it was at you own will, and you are not forced to do it. Knock on wood****, and I am not bragging about Iota Phi Theta Fraternity Inc not being in court for hazing we just simply adapted to the changes. With time comes change weather your organization chooses to comply is another story.

[DSTCHAOS]

But, I think that size of your organization does not matter.

we just simply adapted to the changes. With time comes change weather your organization chooses to comply is another story.


It actually does matter for the reasons I stated. When things were above ground there was less social control so size didn't matter so much. But when pledging became illegal it became difficult to enforce the new policies. This is especially the case for organizations with hundreds of chapters and hundreds of thousands of members to regulate.

So you all have made sure that every chapter of Iota only does the mandated intake process? No exceptions? I commend you all.

[PrettyBoy]

I personally think its a sign of a weak person to have the attitude "well I went through it, they should have to as well."
Well, I guess I compare it to someone working for a company for so many years and finally working his/her way up the ladder, and then all of the sudden somone starts working there and comes into the company at the same level as the person who worked so hard to get at that level. That would annoy me. I don't think it makes anyone weak. My opinion though.

[PrettyBoy]

Neither are you. ;)
Meee! Oh how could you? I don't even know how to spell haze. Oops! :D

[jon1856]

Well, I guess I compare it to someone working for a company for so many years and finally working his/her way up the ladder, and then all of the sudden somone starts working there and comes into the company at the same level as the person who worked so hard to get at that level. That would annoy me. I don't think it makes anyone weak. My opinion though.
PrettyBoy;
Yes, you do have a right to have an opinion. I see that you seem to be rather new to GC ( Welcome ). As I suggested earlier in this thread, it may be a good idea to review some of the other threads in this forum.

[mGZ.]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. only 23%??????

[Unregistered-]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. only 23%??????

Most of us like to abide by the strict no-hazing policy set forth by our respective HQs. :)

[mGZ.]

Most of us like to abide by the strict no-hazing policy set forth by our respective HQs. :)

weak! but, understood... except that it's an anonymous poll, right?

[Unregistered-]

weak! but, understood... except that it's an anonymous poll, right?

MAYBE.

[PrettyBoy]

PrettyBoy;
Yes, you do have a right to have an opinion. I see that you seem to be rather new to GC ( Welcome ). As I suggested earlier in this thread, it may be a good idea to review some of the other threads in this forum.
Thanks. I read some of the other post and I respect other opinions but again, I just think its unfair that people now can just walk in without earning anything. I just don't think anything great should be free. How can someone appreciate something they haven't worked for? It blows me away to see members of other organizations walk around wearing letters as if they worked so hard for it. All they did was receive an acceptance letter, learned some history, signed their names and walla they're in. The killer part about it is they don't even know the members they pledged with. When I say know, they know nothing about each other. That's sad to me. Again my opinon.

[mGZ.]

Thanks. I read some of the other post and I respect other opinions but again, I just think its unfair that people now can just walk in without earning anything. I just don't think anything great should be free. How can someone appreciate something they haven't worked for? It blows me away to see members of other organizations walk around wearing letters as if they worked so hard for it. All they did was receive an acceptance letter, learned some history, signed their names and walla they're in. The killer part about it is they don't even know the members they pledged with. When I say know, they know nothing about each other. That's sad to me. Again my opinon.

so true. worse is when you go to a diff school and go to their chapter which doesn't haze and you see all the actives there. mannnnn that kills me

[PrettyBoy]

so true. worse is when you go to a diff school and go to their chapter which doesn't haze and you see all the actives there. mannnnn that kills me
So far I've never had that experience, and I hope I never do. The chapters that I've been to still practice the traditional and right way of pledging, although I have seen other greek letter organizations that don't haze and I'm not even in those organizations and it still bothers me that new members skated in. I definitely agree with you and couldn't agree with you more. I remember I went out with this girl in XYZ sorority who wasn't made the right way, and some of the things she was telling me, I thought to myself, how can she be proud to wear letters representing a sorority this old with a ton of respect and didn't do nothing to earn it. At the time I had a paddle hanging on my wall and she thought it was a cool decoration. I told her that's hanging there because it had been USED several times! To me her pledge period is so unacceptable it's insane.

[jeffklein]

i believe that it is completely impossible to NOT haze (considering the VERY broad definition of hazing)

i believe that i was barely hazed. i mean, i was referred to as a pledge, and not as a new member.

i was never paddled, awakened at some late hour of the night, forced to drink anything...basically i was never even remotely harmed in any way whatsoever.

i've seen some pretty bad hazing in my day, and it really breaks my heart.

[Kevin]

i believe that it is completely impossible to NOT haze (considering the VERY broad definition of hazing)

i believe that i was barely hazed. i mean, i was referred to as a pledge, and not as a new member.

i was never paddled, awakened at some late hour of the night, forced to drink anything...basically i was never even remotely harmed in any way whatsoever.

i've seen some pretty bad hazing in my day, and it really breaks my heart.

Are you in a sorority?

I don't know of any fraternity which forbids the use of the word 'pledge.'

[Unregistered-]

Are you in a sorority?

I don't know of any fraternity which forbids the use of the word 'pledge.'

Jeff said he was referred to as a pledge and NOT a new member.

Don't know of any fraternities that forbid the word pledge (like the NPC sororities who use it as a verb and not a noun)...but don't some have other names for their pledges? Such as, say, associate members?

[DSTCHAOS]

I don't know of any fraternity which forbids the use of the word 'pledge.'

I believe NPHC fraternities more or less do.

[PrettyBoy]

i believe that it is completely impossible to NOT haze (considering the VERY broad definition of hazing)

i believe that i was barely hazed. i mean, i was referred to as a pledge, and not as a new member.

i was never paddled, awakened at some late hour of the night, forced to drink anything...basically i was never even remotely harmed in any way whatsoever.

i've seen some pretty bad hazing in my day, and it really breaks my heart.
I know of really crazy hazing stories too, and some of it is depressing, but I still think it's necessary. I mean if you really want to appreciate and love your organization.

You were never paddled? Be glad you weren't. LOL.

[PrettyBoy]

Are you in a sorority?

I don't know of any fraternity which forbids the use of the word 'pledge.'
LOL.:p

[PrettyBoy]

That's going waaaaaaaay too far. Because an organization uses the term pledge, that's hazing?? Gimme a break! That's ridiulous.

[jeffklein]

Are you in a sorority?

I don't know of any fraternity which forbids the use of the word 'pledge.'

no :) i'm not in a sorority. at my school none of the fraternities or sororities are technically allowed to use the word pledge. it's like associate member, new member, pre-initiate, that sort of thing.

the definition of hazing is so broad...it's crazy. scavenger hunts are not allowed (which in some instances i understand) there are all sorts of things that aren't allowed.

i'm glad i wasn't paddled or anything physically harming...and i feel bad for anyone who had to go through that.

[Tom Earp]

LXA back in the 70 0r 80s dropped the word pledge for the term New Associate. The first to do so in the Greek Community.

Pledge was deemed by IHQ to denote something to do with plegeship and conotations of hazing.

The idea of paddles were also banned even though our then pledge classes made large paddle @ 4 feet tall with all of the class names on them. They are missed not being made as they looked great hanging in the house.:)

[SxyLambdaLady6]

i think that word hazing is soooo broad, i mean having to wear the same clothes while u pledge is hazing, having to be somewhere everynight is hazing, its all relative.

my sorority doesnt "pledge" or "haze" we EDUCATE the right way, and trust we do a good job, are girls are quality and they know how to rep LTA :)

[DSTCHAOS]

PrettyBoy, have a seat somewhere.

[Elephant Walk]

LXA back in the 70 0r 80s dropped the word pledge for the term New Associate. The first to do so in the Greek Community.
And are now endlessly made fun of for it.

[Eirbear]

That's going waaaaaaaay too far. Because an organization uses the term pledge, that's hazing?? Gimme a break! That's ridiulous.

I don't think it's considered "hazing" just because someone says "pledge." I mean, WE don't say it, we say "new member" (although, sometimes it's easier to just say "Pledge Class" rather than "New Member Class"...at least, my class referred to ourselves as "pledge class '05" sometimes), but I think the word pledge just has too many bad connotations associated with it. Back in the day, when my parents were in college and in greek life, hazing wasn't really illegal. And they called their new members "pledges." So, I think over the years, the word pledge has just gotten a bad rap, and now we're just trying to change things.

Anywho, my chapter doesn't haze. We make it very clear to the new members when they join us that if they ever feel uncomfortable with anything, that they need to tell someone in exec, and then the person in exec will talk to the people who caused the uncomfortable-ness.

[macallan25]

I am so sick of this PC bullshit corrupting the greek systems. We don't call our pledges "new members" or "associate members" because.......... THEY AREN'T MEMBERS YET.

[Eirbear]

We don't call our pledges "new members" or "associate members" because.......... THEY AREN'T MEMBERS YET.

I guess in my sorority we look at it different. Once they've done the pledging ceremony, the NMs wear letters, wear a NM pin, are listed on the roster, attend (parts of) meetings, pay dues, and are a reflection of the rest of the chapter. In essense, after they pledge, they ARE members, for us. Just because they're not full-fledged sisters yet, doesn't mean they're not members.

But...it's different for every organization.

[jon1856]

I am so sick of this PC bullshit corrupting the greek systems. We don't call our pledges "new members" or "associate members" because.......... THEY AREN'T MEMBERS YET.

I agree. The way I looked at it, back in the day, was that the pledge was pledged to become a member/A Brother. And was not until he received his Active pin. And while one wore their Pledge pin and letters, one could not wear anything with the Shield on it.

[DSTCHAOS]

Well if pledging is considered illegal for many organizations, as is hazing for all organizations, why would anyone FORMALLY be called a pledge?

You can take a pledge to the organization (like a pledge of allegiance) but you are not allowed to pledge (as in process) or to formally be called a pledge. Makes logical sense to me. Have a problem with it, talk to the people who banned pledging years ago for some of these organizations.

[Kevin]

I am so sick of this PC bullshit corrupting the greek systems. We don't call our pledges "new members" or "associate members" because.......... THEY AREN'T MEMBERS YET.

I personally agree with you. While according to my organization's rules, we don't haze, we certainly do/did let pledges know that they were there only on a provisional basis. The pledging period is there so we can find out whether a kid is going to be an asset for our organization, or if he'll be poison.

Having worked on both sides of the fence (colonies offer no such provisional membership protections) I vastly prefer the ability to screen out potential bad members before putting them on the same level as yourself.

Back in my day, although the practice wasn't forbidden, we didn't use the word "pledge," we called our new guys "candidates." Since then, at some point, it shifted to "pledge," and it's stayed there. I think that happened mostly because our pledges preferred to call themselves "pledges," and found the term easier to use in conversations with friends and family when referring to their role in the Fraternity. If you have to tell someone you're a "pledge," they know exactly what you're talking about. If you have to say "Associate Member" or whatever, they'll most likely have no clue what you're talking about.

I think that being understood in conversation and a term carrying some clarity as to the individual's status within the organization outweigh whatever PC benefits which may be gained by dispensing with the clearest and most descriptive terms.

Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[macallan25]

Well if pledging is considered illegal for many organizations, as is hazing for all organizations, why would anyone FORMALLY be called a pledge?

You can take a pledge to the organization (like a pledge of allegiance) but you are not allowed to pledge (as in process) or to formally be called a pledge. Makes logical sense to me. Have a problem with it, talk to the people who banned pledging years ago for some of these organizations.


Why would pledging be illegal.....and when was pledging banned? I have never heard of this. I have certainly heard of hazing has an illegal act, but not pledging. Even if your chapter doesn't haze......there are plenty of ways to put a kid through a pledge program. SAE at Oklahoma is like this. They don't haze at all, call their pledges "pledges", and have a good pledge period....that lasts an entire semester, like it should.

[macallan25]

I guess in my sorority we look at it different. Once they've done the pledging ceremony, the NMs wear letters, wear a NM pin, are listed on the roster, attend (parts of) meetings, pay dues, and are a reflection of the rest of the chapter. In essense, after they pledge, they ARE members, for us. Just because they're not full-fledged sisters yet, doesn't mean they're not members.

But...it's different for every organization.

Sororities are completely different. To be honest, I really don't know if i've ever heard of a freshman girl say, "i'm a Pi Phi/Kappa/Theta/Chi, etc. pledge. So I think whether you call them "pledges" or "new members" is a moot point. To me, it always seemed like once you were given a bid to a sorority...you were initiated shortly thereafter.

Our pledges pay dues, attend meetings, are listed on a roster, and have somewhat of a reflection on the chapter..........but until they are initiated.....no letters and things of that nature......because they aren't members yet.

[SoCalGirl]

It's all semantics. In NPC/IFC pledging means the new member period during which you're learning history, etc. In NPHC pledging seems to relate more to actual types of activities, more or less. I think that with NPC/IFC there was a push for eliminating use of the words pledge and pledging because of the general populations perception that pledging consists of crazy hazing "rituals". I believe that NPHC pushed for an elimination of pledging due to a more direct link between pledging and risk management issues (which may or may not be considered hazing by the groups).

[macallan25]

I could care less what a bunch of GDIs think about what we call our pledges.

[SoCalGirl]

I think the concern from an NHQ standpoint is not so much with students who have already decided not to go greek as much as it's for parents and potential members.

[macallan25]

This is just from my experience, but, my entire family and extended family were all greek, at big schools, and in top fraternities and sororities. The men were all "pledges" and talk about "pledging."

To put it roughly, they would think it was a little queer to use the term New Member or Associate Member.

Obviously, I can't comment on the feelings of people I don't know.

[SoCalGirl]

It's great that your family is so greek. Unfortunately not everyone has that benefit. As GLOs expand to schools with new greek systems and to schools/areas that aren't as pro-greek as the South they will encounter more and more first generation greeks. Which means more and more objections by students and parents based on the media's presentation of greeks. That goes for movies/tv and news stories.

While it has personally taken me a while to get used to using the new terms (I was in the last PLEDGE class at my chapter) I recognize that changing words is no big deal. The "new members" may go by a different name but they're participating in all the same activities that I did as a pledge.

[PrettyBoy]

PrettyBoy, have a seat somewhere.
LOL.:p

[PrettyBoy]

I don't think it's considered "hazing" just because someone says "pledge." I mean, WE don't say it, we say "new member" (although, sometimes it's easier to just say "Pledge Class" rather than "New Member Class"...at least, my class referred to ourselves as "pledge class '05" sometimes), but I think the word pledge just has too many bad connotations associated with it. Back in the day, when my parents were in college and in greek life, hazing wasn't really illegal. And they called their new members "pledges." So, I think over the years, the word pledge has just gotten a bad rap, and now we're just trying to change things.

Anywho, my chapter doesn't haze. We make it very clear to the new members when they join us that if they ever feel uncomfortable with anything, that they need to tell someone in exec, and then the person in exec will talk to the people who caused the uncomfortable-ness.
I like it the way it was when your parents were in college. It was like that when my parents were in college too. I pledged the same way,(Old School) and I don't see why it has to change. Like I said before if I was in XYZ org. and lets say I pledged 5 years ago, and I worked hard to get in, and then 5 years later new members joined under the new rules. Now they have the same benefits I have. That's not fair. I pledged for 16 weeks the old way, and for the greeks who didn't pledge......sorry to hear that.:o

[PrettyBoy]

I am so sick of this PC bullshit corrupting the greek systems. We don't call our pledges "new members" or "associate members" because.......... THEY AREN'T MEMBERS YET.
I can't agree with you more.

The way it is now, lets just let everyone in our greek letter organizations for FREE without working for it and become one big happy family.

[PrettyBoy]

I could care less what a bunch of GDIs think about what we call our pledges.
Preach!!!! Preach!!! LOL:p I agree!!!

[jon1856]

I like it the way it was when your parents were in college. It was like that when my parents were in college too. I pledged the same way,(Old School) and I don't see why it has to change. Like I said before if I was in XYZ org. and lets say I pledged 5 years ago, and I worked hard to get in, and then 5 years later new members joined under the new rules. Now they have the same benefits I have. That's not fair. I pledged for 16 weeks the old way, and for the greeks who didn't pledge......sorry to hear that.:o

Before I say anything PrettyBoy, I have to ask you this:
When you first met up with a Brother, do you ask him if his pledgeship was old school, new school, Middle school or High School?

Have you taken any time to read, not the entirety of this thread but, the several older threads in RM that are all about Hazing?

[PrettyBoy]

Before I say anything PrettyBoy, I have to ask you this:
When you first met up with a Brother, do you ask him if his pledgeship was old school, new school, Middle school or High School?

Have you taken any time to read, not the entirety of this thread but, the several older threads in RM that are all about Hazing?
When I meet a member of my organization I can tell what his pledge period was like just by talking to him. Middle School and High School? Uhmmm...not sure what you mean by this. Maybe this is your idea of sarcasm, but I take pledging seriously. We don't need to ask a member of our fraternity anything to see how he pledged. We can just tell. Yes, I've read some of the other threads. I just think the bottom line is either you pledged right or you didn't. There is no in between.

[violetpretty]

To put it roughly, they would think it was a little queer to use the term New Member or Associate Member.


So people who use the term "new member" must be sexually attracted to other people who use the term "new member."

[33girl]

Back in the day, when my parents were in college and in greek life, hazing wasn't really illegal. And they called their new members "pledges." So, I think over the years, the word pledge has just gotten a bad rap, and now we're just trying to change things.


Wrong.

Hazing has always been illegal. That is, if you don't consider ridiculous things like calling someone a pledge or asking them to take a quiz hazing. And even that isn't "illegal", it's against GLOs' policies.

I don't like the term "new member" - because they're not initiated yet. If they stopped pledging, they could join another sorority in a year. Do we really let our "members" do that? I like the cutesy terms that some of the sororities use even less. If someone had called me a "baby ladybug" I would have said "KTHXBYE."

[33girl]

Well if pledging is considered illegal for many organizations, as is hazing for all organizations, why would anyone FORMALLY be called a pledge?

You can take a pledge to the organization (like a pledge of allegiance) but you are not allowed to pledge (as in process) or to formally be called a pledge. Makes logical sense to me. Have a problem with it, talk to the people who banned pledging years ago for some of these organizations.

Pledging is not banned for any of the NPC groups, it just happens in a much different way than it used to.

This is the same thing over again where "pledging" means one thing to NPHC groups and quite another to NPC and IFC groups. Same as the word "depledging."

[violetpretty]

I don't like the term "new member" - because they're not initiated yet. If they stopped pledging, they could join another sorority in a year. Do we really let our "members" do that? I like the cutesy terms that some of the sororities use even less. If someone had called me a "baby ladybug" I would have said "KTHXBYE."

Yeah "new member" is a weird term, but it does represent one phase of membership.

I like how Alpha Delta Pi refers to new members/pledges/etc as Alphas, initiated collegiate members are Deltas, and alumnae are Pis. Calling your new members "Alphas" takes the weirdness out of the term "new members". Unfortunately this does not apply to other GLOs.

[macallan25]

Wrong.

Hazing has always been illegal. That is, if you don't consider ridiculous things like calling someone a pledge or asking them to take a quiz hazing. And even that isn't "illegal", it's against GLOs' policies.

I don't like the term "new member" - because they're not initiated yet. If they stopped pledging, they could join another sorority in a year. Do we really let our "members" do that? I like the cutesy terms that some of the sororities use even less. If someone had called me a "baby ladybug" I would have said "KTHXBYE."

It isnt against all GLO's policies.

[Drolefille]

Yeah "new member" is a weird term, but it does represent one phase of membership.

I like how Alpha Delta Pi refers to new members/pledges/etc as Alphas, initiated collegiate members are Deltas, and alumnae are Pis. Calling your new members "Alphas" takes the weirdness out of the term "new members". Unfortunately this does not apply to other GLOs.
I don't mind new members, but I don't see the problem with pledge either.
JessSigKap, too bad we don't all have three letters or we could all adapt something like that.

One of our new member classes called themselves Baby Doves, but it was something started by them and embraced by them soo it wouldn't be quite as bad as the actives naming the class.

New member is just a poor compromise. I'm not sure what would be better, something like neophyte or something, but then there's the same "stigma" that pledge has to risk management oriented groups. Part of the difference as far as NPC is concerned though is that we expect to initiate nearly everyone we pledge. Thus using new member is implying we anticipate their initiation.

Or something.

[DSTCHAOS]

I pledged the same way,(Old School). I pledged for 16 weeks the old way

No, you didn't. :rolleyes: But it's cute that you think you did.

And whatever happened to silence is golden?

[DSTCHAOS]

and when was pledging banned?

In 1990 for the NPHC.

Hence, I said pledging is illegal (or rather, banned) for some organizations and hazing is illegal for all organizations.

[33girl]

It isnt against all GLO's policies.

I mean hazing as in forcing someone to drink until they get sick or paddling them till they can't sit down. That's assault according to state and federal law - it has nothing to do with what the GLOs do.

[33girl]

New member is just a poor compromise. I'm not sure what would be better, something like neophyte or something, but then there's the same "stigma" that pledge has to risk management oriented groups.

Anything can have a stigma if you use it in that fashion. I'm sure if you say "OK new members, lick the toilets clean!" it kind of shoots all the PCness to hell. :p

[Elephant Walk]

I mean hazing as in forcing someone to drink until they get sick or paddling them till they can't sit down. That's assault according to state and federal law - it has nothing to do with what the GLOs do.
I don't believe anyone's advocating that here.

[Drolefille]

Anything can have a stigma if you use it in that fashion. I'm sure if you say "OK new members, lick the toilets clean!" it kind of shoots all the PCness to hell. :p
Quite true! Like I said, I have no problem with pledges either!

What about "Newbies" or is that too reminiscent of Scrubs?

[DSTCHAOS]

When I meet a member of my organization I can tell what his pledge period was like just by talking to him. Middle School and High School? Uhmmm...not sure what you mean by this. Maybe this is your idea of sarcasm, but I take pledging seriously. We don't need to ask a member of our fraternity anything to see how he pledged. We can just tell. Yes, I've read some of the other threads. I just think the bottom line is either you pledged right or you didn't. There is no in between.

jon is picking on you for making the old school/new school distinction...LOL. You shouldn't take pledging so seriously because I've found that people who talk like you do are the ones who are the most insecure about their "process." ;)

How do you know how someone's pledge period was just be talking to them or even looking at them? I can definitely tell that you are young. LOL. You will come across thousands of members of every organization who will think YOU (PrettyBoy) had a luke warm "process" whether it was a lukewarm 16 weeks or a lukewarm 6 days. Some old school people even go so far as to say that New Age people who are kept on line for 16 weeks were kept so long because the Big Brothers/Sisters were waiting for folks to drop--the line was so wack and lukewarm from start to finish that they couldn't get right and just barely crossed. :)

But no one would be able to comment on your "process" either way if you didn't share the info. ;)

[33girl]

I don't believe anyone's advocating that here.

I don't think so either, I was just responding to the girl who made the statement that hazing wasn't illegal in her parents' day. The things I used as examples have always been illegal - whether the GLO chose to recognize it or not.

[DSTCHAOS]

Pledging is not banned for any of the NPC groups, it just happens in a much different way than it used to.

This is the same thing over again where "pledging" means one thing to NPHC groups and quite another to NPC and IFC groups. Same as the word "depledging."

I was never talking about the NPC. But since I don't know NPC policies, I left open the possibility that some NPC organizations have also banned "pledging."

[macallan25]

I mean hazing as in forcing someone to drink until they get sick or paddling them till they can't sit down. That's assault according to state and federal law - it has nothing to do with what the GLOs do.

Oh, well you said "pledging".

[33girl]

Oh, well you said "pledging".

I only said "pledging" when telling DSTChaos it wasn't banned in NPC.

I guess I really should get friendly with the multiquote feature. :p

[jon1856]

jon is picking on you for making the old school/new school distinction...LOL. You shouldn't take pledging so seriously because I've found that people who talk like you do are the ones who are the most insecure about their "process." ;)

How do you know how someone's pledge period was just be talking to them or even looking at them? I can definitely tell that you are young. LOL. You will come across thousands of members of every organization who will think YOU (PrettyBoy) had a luke warm "process" whether it was a lukewarm 16 weeks or a lukewarm 6 days. Some old school people even go so far as to say that New Age people who are kept on line for 16 weeks were kept so long because the Big Brothers/Sisters were waiting for folks to drop--the line was so wack and lukewarm from start to finish that they couldn't get right and just barely crossed. :)

But no one would be able to comment on your "process" either way if you didn't share the info. ;)
You put some words in my month but for the most part I agree.
While I am not sure of your age, nor do I need to know, I am very sure I am older than PrettyBoy and I have already posted in another thread or two here in RM about my Pledgeship.

I will add that as part of my experience, when ever I met a Brother he is my Brother. And since I am from "those" days, I would also include Little Sisters as well. My Big Sister is my best friend to this day.

[macallan25]

You put some words in my month but for the most part I agree.
While I am not sure of your age, nor do I need to know, I am very sure I am older than PrettyBoy and I have already posted in another thread or two here in RM about my Pledgeship.

I will add that as part of my experience, when ever I met a Brother he is my Brother. And since I am from "those" days, I would also include Little Sisters as well. My Big Sister is my best friend to this day.


I agree...its rather dumb to think that a certain type of pledgeship can make a person come across differently. What kind of pledgeship you want to go through is a personal choice, simple as that. I know that the SAEs at Oklahoma don't haze at all other than having to clean the house, do interviews and show up at 6 am for home games......and there are a ton of great guys in that chapter....easily the best fraternity at OU.

[DSTCHAOS]

You put some words in my month but for the most part I agree.

To clarify, the very first sentence of my post is the only one in reference to you or anything you typed.

[DSTCHAOS]

I agree...its rather dumb to think that a certain type of pledgeship can make a person come across differently. What kind of pledgeship you want to go through is a personal choice, simple as that. I know that the SAEs at Oklahoma don't haze at all other than having to clean the house, do interviews and show up at 6 am for home games......and there are a ton of great guys in that chapter....easily the best fraternity at OU.

In PrettyBoy's defense, many people in the NPHC and similarly situated organizations believe what he typed to be true. It isn't 100% true or false. I'll leave it at that because I think that PrettyBoy and many others know what I'm getting at.

As an aside, I don't know about NPC and IFC intake processes or how they are socialized so my posts are never specifically in reference to these organizations.

[macallan25]

By "intake process" do you mean rush and recruitment?

[DSTCHAOS]

By "intake process" do you mean rush and recruitment?

Whatever interestees have to do to become members.

[macallan25]

I see.

[jon1856]

To clarify, the very first sentence of my post is the only one in reference to you or anything you typed.
;>D
;)
All I wrote was some:)

[PrettyBoy]

No, you didn't. :rolleyes: But it's cute that you think you did.

And whatever happened to silence is golden?
Uhmmm.....o.k. whatever....:rolleyes:

[DSTCHAOS]

Uhmmm.....o.k. whatever....:rolleyes:

..............:);)

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

I believe our definition of hazing is anything that our new members are asked/required (or made to feel like they are being asked/required) to do that our initiated members are not asked/required to do. My boyfriend actually pointed out to me that by that definition, we are hazing them by giving them gifts! They really do just get a bunch of gifts, though, no hazing. They get treated better than WE do, when sis-moms do their jobs correctly. I have yet to hear about a sorority on this campus hazing, and this is my second year. There are drop outs from all on campus, as far as I know, and it seems like someone would be talking if they experienced hazing.

[exlurker]

Dartmouth’s student paper ran a two-part series on hazing on Nov. 20 and 21 '06. Apparently hazing’s still a concern within the Greek system there:

http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2006112001030

http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2006112101030

[Elephant Walk]

I think it's more like "get me a beer" or "go mow the lawn".
A good 75% of what is done, is that. The other 25% is a little more intense.

[UCFgirl]

Well according to the poll I'm in the majority.

There is no way in hell I would've joined any organization that hazes. At the first sign of it, I would've been out of there.


we too are showered with gifts through out our new member period. Every week we get a new buddy, and a new present. Big/lil week we get a present everyday, and a ton of presents once you get your big sister, and even more once you are initiated. I dont feel you need to haze your pledges, to make them deserve to be there. If they got through Panhellenic recruitment, they deserve to be there, and if they don't, it shows in other ways.

I would never stay in an organization that hazes.

And UCF does not look fondly at hazing, as many a suspended fraternity can atest to.

[macallan25]

we too are showered with gifts through out our new member period. Every week we get a new buddy, and a new present. Big/lil week we get a present everyday, and a ton of presents once you get your big sister, and even more once you are initiated. I dont feel you need to haze your pledges, to make them deserve to be there. If they got through Panhellenic recruitment, they deserve to be there, and if they don't, it shows in other ways.

I would never stay in an organization that hazes.

And UCF does not look fondly at hazing, as many a suspended fraternity can atest to.


You are in a sorority....totally different

[jon1856]

You are in a sorority....totally different
Brother, you not the only one who has said that and I not sure why one thinks that.

After I graduated, I heard/learned things about some of the sororities at my school that just about had my head spinning.

[macallan25]

Brother, you not the only one who has said that and I not sure why one thinks that.

After I graduated, I heard/learned things about some of the sororities at my school that just about had my head spinning.


Oh i've definitely heard things....but in the grand scheme.....sororities are a complete 180 from fraternities.

[UCFgirl]

You are in a sorority....totally differente

You are right...

Consider the rush process to get into a fraternity 3-5 days, you meet the guys about 30 minutes, consider whether or not the guys gets a bid. Afterwards, you can decide whether or not he stays.

Panhellenic recruitment process, 4 days (very long days), in which each day you the PNM and the chapter must narrow down the voting. It is a mutual selection process, meaning if a chapter doesnt want you, you wont go there. And if you don't want the chapter, you wont go there. At the end of an extremely long, stressful week (and hot if you are down south), you finally (if you are lucky enough), get a bid. You don't think after an application, reccomendations, and 4 days of stressful voting/weeding out/life changing decision making, that these girls didnt have it rough enough to become a member? You feel that they need 16 weeks of torture to earn their right to membership.

During the new member period (at least for my organization), you must follow the exact rules as sisters (including expectations for participation, social conduct, grades, etc). If during 8 weeks, yoou cant follow those rules, then you wont get initiated, until you prove you can.

Sororities and fraternities look at recruitment/rush in a completely different manner, so dont you then think that their pledge period/new member period should also be done so?

Please dont think that women dont know anything. We have just as much to know about risk management issues, recruitment, etc as the men, if not more. have you looked at/read the risk management policies for sororities lately, they are books.

[macallan25]

e

You are right...

Consider the rush process to get into a fraternity 3-5 days, you meet the guys about 30 minutes, consider whether or not the guys gets a bid. Afterwards, you can decide whether or not he stays.

Panhellenic recruitment process, 4 days (very long days), in which each day you the PNM and the chapter must narrow down the voting. It is a mutual selection process, meaning if a chapter doesnt want you, you wont go there. And if you don't want the chapter, you wont go there. At the end of an extremely long, stressful week (and hot if you are down south), you finally (if you are lucky enough), get a bid. You don't think after an application, reccomendations, and 4 days of stressful voting/weeding out/life changing decision making, that these girls didnt have it rough enough to become a member? You feel that they need 16 weeks of torture to earn their right to membership.

During the new member period (at least for my organization), you must follow the exact rules as sisters (including expectations for participation, social conduct, grades, etc). If during 8 weeks, yoou cant follow those rules, then you wont get initiated, until you prove you can.

Sororities and fraternities look at recruitment/rush in a completely different manner, so dont you then think that their pledge period/new member period should also be done so?

Please dont think that women dont know anything. We have just as much to know about risk management issues, recruitment, etc as the men, if not more. have you looked at/read the risk management policies for sororities lately, they are books.


I never meant for it to come accross like I didn't think yall knew anything. Sorry if it did. One thing though, good solid chapters, atleast in the South...know who comprises the majority of their pledge class a while before school even starts. Fraternities are just different. The only acceptable pledge period as far as i'm concerned is a whole semester.

[PhrozenGenius]

Question: Do you deliniate at all between pledging and hazing? Can you pledge without being hazed?

(This is mainly for IFC and NPC greeks because this discussion happens on various levels ALL the time amongst NPHC greeks.)

My biggest thing is, and has always been, what is this specific seemingly ridiculous act teaching me about my organization and/or about manhood?

Some of the stupidest things that "Candidates" are asked to do during the Membership Intake Process are actually different customs and traditions of the organizations used to teach new members of the lore and legend of the fraternal organization.

Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. is a non-hazing organization and has actually had that stance since the 30's

"These cruel beatings which, in many instances, have
left men marked and scarred for life is driving men
away from Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity. Many men are
outside the thinking of this".
Alpha Phi Alpha General President
Belford Lawson, 1934.

[SoCalGirl]

Question: Do you deliniate at all between pledging and hazing? Can you pledge without being hazed?

I think that most people would say YES!

The problem these days, IMO, is that way too much is considered hazing. I understand that some idiots took things too far and ruined certain activities for everyone but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

I'm actually very surprised at the number of people who said they weren't hazed considering Kevin said use your organization's definition of hazing.

For example, I never felt like I was in any danger or put under any mental stress or any kind of anguish that I would have considered hazing. But, by my organization's definition I was hazed from day one.

At least one of the activities was something that I did as a Brownie and Junior in the Girl Scouts! How can it be hazing when I'm an adult willingly participating in the activity but it wasn't hazing when I was 9 years old and my mom and other adults as well as fellow 9 year olds participated?

Examples of things that are considered hazing...:rolleyes:

Dances to present your new members to the chapter or Greek community. Like a mini deb ball for the girls. Since the NMs are all in white and nobody else is it sets them apart, therefore hazed.

Serenades to introduce the NM class to the fraternities. Again, since the older members aren't doing it it's set apart the new class and they're being hazed.

Family names and NM Class names. Sorry you can't be the Alpha Beta Pledge/New Member Class and you can't be in the Rockstar or Bunny Family because that would cause division and it's hazing!

Morning kidnaps and being taken to breakfast in your PJs. Sure, your being woke up at 530AM and being asked to come with your sisters in your PJs. Some creative sisters may even get you a crown because your the princess. Sure, your back home from breakfast in time to get ready for your 8AM class. Sure, you did it when you were 9 years old. You just didn't realize how traumatizing it was back then. :rolleyes:

We never did any scavenger hunts but, again, I did when I was in Girl Scouts!

I'm sure all the rules are probably even more strict since when I graduated 6 years ago.

[blueangel]

The definition of hazing has changed since I was in college. My pledge period was really fun, but some of the things we had to do would now be considered hazing.

For instance: we had to earn "pledge points." You got them for various things such as shining the silver, attending pledge meetings, or helping to set up for an event.

We had pledge knowlege tests each week at our meetings on different things that were in our pledge manuals. You had to obtain a certain score in order to go forward.

We had no idea when initiation would be. At dinner one night, the class ahead of me was surprised with an announcement. I can't go into detail, but it was really beautiful and special the way they let the girls know.

The pledge period was really long.. I think it was somewhere between 8 to 10 weeks.

We were sent out on scavenger hunts. I thought they were a lot of fun.. but they're no longer allowed.

And there were "pranks." Such as tying the chairs to the table so you couldn't pull out your chair. The sisters did pranks to us, and we did them to the sisters. They were never mean spirited... just silly.

As I understand it, none of this is allowed anymore.

Nothing was "degrading".. in fact, there was always so much love in the house... it truly felt like a second family. Pledges were made to feel special. The sisters went out of their way to make us feel welcome.

For instance.. we had "pledge pockets" at the house (sort of like the thing that hangs on your closet door to put your shoes in). Each pledge had their own "pocket" . Everyday, when you went to the house for dinner, you would find notes, candy and all kinds of goodies from the sisters.

Great times.. wonderful memories.

[jon1856]

I never meant for it to come across like I didn't think y'all knew anything. Sorry if it did. One thing though, good solid chapters, at least in the South...know who comprises the majority of their pledge class a while before school even starts. Fraternities are just different. The only acceptable pledge period as far as I'm concerned is a whole semester.
Back in the day Brother mine was just short of a semester. Seemed longer at the time:D
P.S.: Just looked at my Initiation Certification and it was a bit longer than a semester.

[TopSider]

If you dont haze, then your not a fraternity. Simple as that. If you are in the South and do not haze, then your an embarassment.

[RhoPsiDST]

the thread it funny as hell....

[broomstick]

Hazing is ridiculous. Especially when it becomes dangerous or hazardous to a person's mental and/or physical well-being.

Our pledges aren't even allowed to drink any alcohol whatsoever during our I-week.

However, I don't see how a road trip is considered hazing, especially when it isn't required and is already planned as a brotherhood event. And calisthenics is kind of a grey area to me, because I've had workout buddies who were pledging my house before, and if anything, it's a physically beneficial activity.

[cheerfulgreek]

Does your chapter haze?

Define hazing as anything which your organization or your state says is against the rules.
I guess it depends on what is considered hazing. I mean it seems like everthing is considered hazing now.

[jon1856]

I guess it depends on what is considered hazing. I mean it seems like everthing is considered hazing now.
Cheerful'-You seem to be new to GC.
You may find it helpful and educational to take the time to read many of the older threads in RM.

[reverie]

It seems as though you can make anything into hazing though. We used to do a scavenger hunt for big/little reveal, but then were told that it could be seen as hazing. So it was suggested that we change to writing the bigs name at the bottom of an ice cream sundae and having the new member finish the ice cream. Cute idea until you hand a bowl of ice cream to someone who you didn't realize is lactose intolerant. So is it hazing then?

I think this debate could go on forever though.

[theEngineer]

God, after reading all the national panhallenic stuff that they require, I'm so glad Im in a local fraternity. It's nice not having a national office telling you how to run business. If anything, we answer to alumni, who would have us really haze. What we do currently is only considered hazing in the sense if mental abuse and maybe sleep deprivation when pledges forget that they can sleep.

[Unregistered-]

God, after reading all the national panhallenic stuff that they require, I'm so glad Im in a local fraternity. It's nice not having a national office telling you how to run business. If anything, we answer to alumni, who would have us really haze. What we do currently is only considered hazing in the sense if mental abuse and maybe sleep deprivation when pledges forget that they can sleep.

What does your university think?

What about the state you live in? What are their hazing laws like?

If I were you, I'd pray that you guys never get slapped with lawsuits.

[jon1856]

What does your university think?

What about the state you live in? What are their hazing laws like?

If I were you, I'd pray that you guys never get slapped with lawsuits.

I agree. Just because you are a local does not excuse you from school, local, state and federal laws and regulations.
And your "older and wiser" Brothers should by now know better.

However as pointed out above and many times before this "agrument" has been and will be played out over and over and over again.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

If you dont haze, then your not a fraternity. Simple as that. If you are in the South and do not haze, then your an embarassment.

Correction: Being college educated and unabe to use grammar correctly is an embarassment.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

What does your university think?

What about the state you live in? What are their hazing laws like?

If I were you, I'd pray that you guys never get slapped with lawsuits.

Agreed.

[poeticace]

LOL, what Im saying is we don't haze at all. We have an intake process thier is a very big difference between the two that I cannot and will not go into great detail over the internet. Movies like "School Daze", "Skulls", and "The Hazzing" are films that take what really happens too far. I know it may sound confusing, but ceremonies and the process is a thing that if you're going through it then you know, if you're not going through a process then you skated. Skating is not cool! lol...

exactly.

This question is too broad anyway, because every school/org/region defines hazing as something different. One person may consider beating the shit out of the pledges as hazing, while another person may consider something as simple as "leaving the room while the sorority members vote" as hazing. And, according to the laws in most states, those laws are pretty much limited to the physical (i.e. beating the pledges), yet clearly, it's been shown that there's WAY more to hazing than just that.

[Kevin]

exactly.

This question is too broad anyway

...which is why I added the "don't know" option. In my mind though, if you don't know whether or not you haze, either you are very cynical as to what your HQ, University, etc. might interpret as hazing (e.g., liberalizing the "mental discomfort" aspect) or you do in fact haze, but you don't consider the hazing you do to be hazing.

That's really the trouble with the question -- it's deceptively oversimple. The trouble is, when an HQ, University, District Attorney, etc. decides to prosecute, sanction, or shut down your chapter due to hazing, the answer as to whether you hazed or not is either affirmative or negative. Place yourself in the position of a University official, District Attorney, HQ official, then decide whether the answer is "yes" or "no" as to whether your chapter hazes or not. In the event that hazing allegations arise, their opinions will be the only ones which really matter.

[IncontRHOllable]

I am luvin the responses on this thread, too funny :D Wow to those sororities that give gifts to their "prospective members" all throughout their process, how cute.

[dreamofpeace]

My sorority "doesn't haze"--which is to say that we don't actually physically do anything to our pledges, and no one is required to drink themselves into a stupor (actually, our pledging is dry). But the mind games are definately emotionally/psychologically traumatic, if you ask me. The thing is though, I really do feel like everything I went through was worth it and served a purpose. My pledge sister described it well. She said, "It's the most worthwhile thing I've ever done that I would never do again."

[AlphaFrog]

My sorority "doesn't haze"--which is to say that we don't actually physically do anything to our pledges, and no one is required to drink themselves into a stupor (actually, our pledging is dry). But the mind games are definately emotionally/psychologically traumatic, if you ask me. The thing is though, I really do feel like everything I went through was worth it and served a purpose. My pledge sister described it well. She said, "It's the most worthwhile thing I've ever done that I would never do again."

I bet the Dean of Students, Ms. Jeanne Ortiz - jortiz@whittier.edu, would be very interested in this post.

[SoEnchanting]

^^^^^ wow...

[AlphaFrog]

^^^^^ wow...

She's had three posts, and they've all been about hazing...

I was just demonstrating that she's not as anonymous and harmless as she thinks she is.

[33girl]

SirHornyToad goes/went there too, and his posts were similar.

[fantASTic]

No, we don't haze at all. Like other sorority women have mentioned, we are basically showered with gifts and attention. However, we do go through a New Member Education period in which we learn things about the sorority. But it's a friendly thing, nothing that could be considered hazing.

We don't make new members leave the room during voting, but one thing we do that's ridiculous is that we are required by law to tell them what happens before they go to a ritual if they want to know. So, if someone says, "I want to know what happens during big/little exchange," we have to tell them or it's hazing.

I think it's silly. I wish we were hazed [not horribly, of course] because I think it helps to build pledge class unity and also to feel more like an initiated member.

[ladygreek]

Yes. We haze each other in chapter meetings.

[sigmadiva]

Yes. We haze each other in chapter meetings.

Ain't that the truth!!!!! :p

[OmegaPDPrez]

This is in response to a certain case about an organization that had a few of its members placed in court for physically beating a pledge...

I dont understand.... Why is it important to initiate members in that fashion. I always understood Greek life to be about, at least, bulding brotherhood. I know it cant be brought into detail, but what is it that the beatings represent? Does it actually build a bond, or is it done because its just tradtion?

I'd like some response if any one has one!

[ChildoftheHorn]

Wi will say that my grandmother and my mother admitted to being Hazed. My mother went to a big school in a college town in the middle of the united states(early 1980's). My grandmother was from another era (1940-50's) where sororities were even more exclusive than they are now and we did not have the policies of today. My aunt's and other family members have said they never received much hazing and that it wasn't damaging in any way, just time consuming....

[sphinxbeauty]

At my school, almost anything is considered hazing. There is a meeting that all new members and their educators are required to attend where the Greek Life staff shows a power point regarding the different levels of hazing: Subtle, Harassment, and Violent.

Subtle Hazing - silence periods, scavenger hunts, house duties, carrying a pledge book, getting signatures, threats, and deprivation of privleges.

Harassment Hazing - verbal abuse, questioning under pressure, requiring new members to wear rediculous costumes, skit nights.

Violent Hazing - forced alcohol consumption, physical violence, and intense emotional ridicule.

My school also informs you that if you take part in any sort of hazing (whether you're an initiated member or new member) you can be punished.

There have been many accusations of hazing among the greek community at my school, but just remember that if you heard it from someone who wasn't there, it's just a rumor. Don't believe everything you hear.

http://blog.nj.com/timesupdates/2007/04/rider_freshman_died_of_alcohol.html
(http://blog.nj.com/timesupdates/2007/04/rider_freshman_died_of_alcohol.html)^This just happened to a nearby school, read it and let me know what you think.

[AlphaFrog]

Subtle Hazing - silence periods, scavenger hunts, house duties, carrying a pledge book, getting signatures, threats, and deprivation of privleges.


There's something that doesn't mesh there.

[sphinxbeauty]

There's something that doesn't mesh there.

Sorry what it specifically says is "Scaring new members with what may happen at initiation." I should have clarified that.

[AlphaFrog]

Sorry what it specifically says is "Scaring new members with what may happen at initiation." I should have clarified that.

That makes more sense. When I think of "threats" I think of something like "I'm going to kill you" or "I'll add that to your file I'm keeping on you".

[sphinxbeauty]

Yeah I understand. But basically what I'm trying to say is just about ANYTHING during the new member process is considered hazing. In the handbook they give you as a new member, they state "Each pledge activity can be measured against the definition for each category [subtle, harassment, violent]". So by that statement, how can we not haze?

[Unregistered-]

She's had three posts, and they've all been about hazing...

I was just demonstrating that she's not as anonymous and harmless as she thinks she is.

SirHornyToad goes/went there too, and his posts were similar.

A girl I knew from high school who eventually became my chapter sister was a member of the oldest women's society at Whittier. I was gonna post its name, but if you really wanted to know which one, I'm sure you could figure it out.

I recall a moment during her Fireside when she was moved to tears when her sister-mom read a poem she had written especially for my friend. She couldn't believe how special everyone made her feel.

Later on that night, she confided in us that her pledge period was one filled physical and psychological torment. After she DP-ed, it got so bad that she ended up leaving Whittier completely because of the harassment she received from the sisters of this particular society.

Funny how this is what they say about hazing on their website:

Is hazing a part of New Member Education?

NO! The Society values and teaches the importance of respecting the individual and each other above all else. This includes appreciating each person's background and experiences while helping one other become the best person each of us can be.Screw tradition...it's a wonder how these women (and the other societies who haze on that campus) haven't been arrested for their actions. My chapter sister honestly believes that school administration chooses to look the other way whenever incidents happen.

Hopefully no one has to die before the college decides to take action.

[Drolefille]

Yeah I understand. But basically what I'm trying to say is just about ANYTHING during the new member process is considered hazing. In the handbook they give you as a new member, they state "Each pledge activity can be measured against the definition for each category [subtle, harassment, violent]". So by that statement, how can we not haze?
The idea is that you measure the activiting against those definitions and it SHOULD NOT match because you SHOULD NOT be hazing. They're not saying that everything you do is hazing... unless of course you're doing all of those things.

Nothing in my new member period qualified under those categories except perhaps a scavenger hunt (participated in by actives and new members and it ended in ice cream). If you're doing anything even under the "subtle" category, you need to stop. There's nothing wrong with having a pledge manual, but requiring the NMs to carry it around in case they're challenged? Hazing.

[sphinxbeauty]

I'm not saying that we do haze. If you knew how the faculty/staff at my school was, you would understand what I'm trying to get at. They honestly see EVERYTHING as hazing, whether you're trying to or not. You say that nothing (besides the scavenger hunt) you did during your new member period was hazing, but if you were called a "pledge" by ANY means, HAZING!

I'm not trying to argue what-so-ever. I'm trying to say that no matter how your new members go through the process, or they learn your history, now a days everything is under scrutiny to be considered hazing.

[Drolefille]

I'm not saying that we do haze. If you knew how the faculty/staff at my school was, you would understand what I'm trying to get at. They honestly see EVERYTHING as hazing, whether you're trying to or not. You say that nothing (besides the scavenger hunt) you did during your new member period was hazing, but if you were called a "pledge" by ANY means, HAZING!

I'm not trying to argue what-so-ever. I'm trying to say that no matter how your new members go through the process, or they learn your history, now a days everything is under scrutiny to be considered hazing.
I wasn't called a pledge because that's considered hazing.

What I'm saying is that you shouldn't be doing anything that falls under that purview in the first place. I'm fairly certain my chapter has stopped doing the scavenger hunt since they are unilaterally banned, not just banned for NMs as they had thought.

Seriously, I understand overzealous administration, but if you're following your national guidelines you really wouldn't get in trouble. Don't call your NMs pledges, don't kidnap them, don't make them do stupid shit just to show that they "respect you." The guidelines aren't really that strict.

[33girl]

I understand what she's saying. They are given a handbook that says EACH (i.e. every) pledge activity can be measured in terms of subtle, harassment, or violent. Under that kind of thing, getting presents from your big can be considered hazing - it "subtly" separates the pledges from the actives.

[Drolefille]

I understand what she's saying. They are given a handbook that says EACH (i.e. every) pledge activity can be measured in terms of subtle, harassment, or violent. Under that kind of thing, getting presents from your big can be considered hazing - it "subtly" separates the pledges from the actives.
I guess I interpreted that differently where the NM should measure the activity to determine if it hazing or not. Not that everything IS hazing...

[sphinxbeauty]

Thanks 33girl. Finally someone understands what I was trying to say. If you seperate your NM is ANY way from the initiated members, it's considered hazing.

[Drolefille]

Thanks 33girl. Finally someone understands what I was trying to say. If you seperate your NM is ANY way from the initiated members, it's considered hazing.
Again, I don't see what you're saying you should be allowed to do that you're prohibited from doing.

[Yami_Cassie]

My school also lists scavenger hunts as hazing.. although I personally don't see it as that. In addition to the very specific rules, I just try to keep in mind that everything pledges do, no matter how little a task they need to be comfortable with and comfortable with the sorority enough to say no at any time.

(For example) If we told pledges to write an essay about why they want to join and one says she really feels uncomfortable/degraded by doing so, I would not let her do it.

[DPUDChi]

Really hard to say yes or no to this one. The difference between DePauw's hazing guidlines and FIPG is rediculous. According to one of my profs (a DePauw alum and Lambda Chi Alpha), an ice cream social can technically be considered hazing at DePauw. I think FIPG guidelines are very reasonable and appropriate. My chapter does NOT haze according to FIPG. But any little thing can be hazing at DePauw.

[AlphaFrog]

Again, I don't see what you're saying you should be allowed to do that you're prohibited from doing.

NM Ed. for one. That would be seperating the actives from the pledges.

[MysticCat]

Subtle Hazing - . . . scavenger hunts, . . . getting signatures . . . .

They honestly see EVERYTHING as hazing, whether you're trying to or not. You say that nothing (besides the scavenger hunt) you did during your new member period was hazing, but if you were called a "pledge" by ANY means, HAZING!

I'm not trying to argue what-so-ever. I'm trying to say that no matter how your new members go through the process, or they learn your history, now a days everything is under scrutiny to be considered hazing.My opinions only:

I understand (and support) the crack-down on hazing taking place among many GLOs. But some folks have just gone plain crazy with what they consider hazing. It is just plain stupid to say that calling someone a "pledge" is hazing. Sure, many GLOs (mine included) have moved away from the term because of the connotation it carries with some people, but honestly. No one is hazed merely by being called a "pledge."

And scavenger hunts? Give me a break! Getting signatures of all the actives? One the best things I did as a probationary member -- it gave me a chance to interact with each brother. We signed hats, and I've kept mine as a valued momento. Sure, getting signatures, like anything else, can be abused if an active requires something inappropriate before giving a signature, but in that case its the specific requirement, not getting the signature itself, that's hazing.

I simply do not buy the position that anything that treats NMs/pledges/whatever they are called differently from active members is hazing. I know from previous conversations that different groups have different views about how much NMs/pledges should be treated like actives, but that doesn't mean that those groups that maintain there is a difference are hazing on that basis.

No reasonable definition of hazing would include the use of the word "pledge" or things like scavanger hunts, per se. Hazing is any activity that humiliates, degrades or risks emotional and/or physical harm, not just that calls attention to the fact that some people are not full members yet.

[AlphaFrog]

And scavenger hunts?

Scavenger hunts at my university included time limits (so that the girls/boys would either be forced to drive recklessly or run ridiculous lengths to complete in time), items hidden in other GLO houses (where the other GLO would haze the pledges before they gave them the next clue), and other dangerous activities - which is why they were specifically banned. As was "stringing for bigs" when one of the Delta Upsilons proceeded to string out the window and into the basketball hoop - the pledge was apparently caught by university officials sitting on top of the basketball hoop unwinding string.

[JonInKC]

Before long you won't even be able to make a pledge down a fifth of whiskey and then swim across the lake in the middle of winter.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hell in a handbasket.

[33girl]

The thing with scavenger hunts is, it would be REALLY easy to make them safe and hazing free. Just hide all the items in the house or another enclosed area and let the pledges know everything is there. You do otherwise, your butt is in a sling. The thing is, people are too lazy to make rules and would rather just ban.

[Dionysus]

At my school, almost anything is considered hazing. There is a meeting that all new members and their educators are required to attend where the Greek Life staff shows a power point regarding the different levels of hazing: Subtle, Harassment, and Violent.

Subtle Hazing - silence periods, scavenger hunts, house duties, carrying a pledge book, getting signatures, threats, and deprivation of privleges.

Harassment Hazing - verbal abuse, questioning under pressure, requiring new members to wear rediculous costumes, skit nights.

Violent Hazing - forced alcohol consumption, physical violence, and intense emotional ridicule.

My school also informs you that if you take part in any sort of hazing (whether you're an initiated member or new member) you can be punished.

There have been many accusations of hazing among the greek community at my school, but just remember that if you heard it from someone who wasn't there, it's just a rumor. Don't believe everything you hear.

http://blog.nj.com/timesupdates/2007/04/rider_freshman_died_of_alcohol.html
(http://blog.nj.com/timesupdates/2007/04/rider_freshman_died_of_alcohol.html)^This just happened to a nearby school, read it and let me know what you think.

Bullshit.

My school also lists scavenger hunts as hazing.. although I personally don't see it as that. In addition to the very specific rules, I just try to keep in mind that everything pledges do, no matter how little a task they need to be comfortable with and comfortable with the sorority enough to say no at any time.

(For example) If we told pledges to write an essay about why they want to join and one says she really feels uncomfortable/degraded by doing so, I would not let her do it.

Bullshit.

Really hard to say yes or no to this one. The difference between DePauw's hazing guidlines and FIPG is rediculous. According to one of my profs (a DePauw alum and Lambda Chi Alpha), an ice cream social can technically be considered hazing at DePauw. I think FIPG guidelines are very reasonable and appropriate. My chapter does NOT haze according to FIPG. But any little thing can be hazing at DePauw.

Bullshit.

exactly.

This question is too broad anyway, because every school/org/region defines hazing as something different. One person may consider beating the shit out of the pledges as hazing, while another person may consider something as simple as "leaving the room while the sorority members vote" as hazing. And, according to the laws in most states, those laws are pretty much limited to the physical (i.e. beating the pledges), yet clearly, it's been shown that there's WAY more to hazing than just that.

Bullshit.

My sorority "doesn't haze"--which is to say that we don't actually physically do anything to our pledges, and no one is required to drink themselves into a stupor (actually, our pledging is dry). But the mind games are definately emotionally/psychologically traumatic, if you ask me. The thing is though, I really do feel like everything I went through was worth it and served a purpose. My pledge sister described it well. She said, "It's the most worthwhile thing I've ever done that I would never do again."

Bullshit.

No, we don't haze at all. Like other sorority women have mentioned, we are basically showered with gifts and attention. However, we do go through a New Member Education period in which we learn things about the sorority. But it's a friendly thing, nothing that could be considered hazing.

We don't make new members leave the room during voting, but one thing we do that's ridiculous is that we are required by law to tell them what happens before they go to a ritual if they want to know. So, if someone says, "I want to know what happens during big/little exchange," we have to tell them or it's hazing.

I think it's silly. I wish we were hazed [not horribly, of course] because I think it helps to build pledge class unity and also to feel more like an initiated member.

Annnnd BULLLLSHIT!!!!! I just read most of this thread and some of these anti-hazing rules are out of control.

[Drolefille]

NM Ed. for one. That would be seperating the actives from the pledges.
I can't believe the school marks that as hazing. That's what I'm saying. Every example she's given includes something that is not allowed. She hasn't said anything suggesting they don't have NM education or that the school requires NMs to attend ritual or something like that.

She seems more upset that the Subtle hazing is prohibited as well as the word "pledge."

I agree that hazing rules have gone to far, but Greeks in general have shown they can't be trusted to make their own rules because people have been injured and killed by hazing. So even the innocent ones are getting punished for it.

[33girl]

I agree that hazing rules have gone to far, but Greeks in general have shown they can't be trusted to make their own rules because people have been injured and killed by hazing. So even the innocent ones are getting punished for it.

You just contradicted yourself.

[Glitter650]

The thing with scavenger hunts is, it would be REALLY easy to make them safe and hazing free. The thing is, people are too lazy to make rules and would rather just ban.

EXACTLY.... a lot of the things that we are ridiculous for being banned are only banned because of a slippery slope... a scavenger can be totally free of anything dangerous, demeaning, or anything that would cause someone to be uncomfortable. The thing is it easily can go down hill to go take the Pike's composite, and once they get there, the Pike's know they're coming and make them take shots before they can have it, or are waiting with water balloons to pelt them from the window when they arrive... or any number of crazy things I think we all could agree would NOT be kosher. but rather than write spedific rules about how to perform them with out hazing.. they just ban them.

[Drolefille]

You just contradicted yourself.
I don't think I did.
I understand why the rules have been put in place.

That doesn't mean I agree with them being as broad as they are.

[33girl]

I don't think I did.
I understand why the rules have been put in place.

That doesn't mean I agree with them being as broad as they are.

You said "Greeks in general" can't be trusted.

Then you said "the innocent ones" get punished.

That = contradiction.

[Drolefille]

You said "Greeks in general" can't be trusted.

Then you said "the innocent ones" get punished.

That = contradiction.
Ah, no I didnt' really mean it like that.

Various chapters of different organizations have shown themselves to be untrustworthy. The school, state, HQ, etc. has two options, punish chapters for offenses already committed and/or put preventative measures into place. Most do both.

These organizations have basically decided that "as a whole" Greeks cannot be trusted to self-police. That doesn't mean that individually Greeks are untrustworthy or that individual chapters are necessarily untrustworthy. The vast majority are in fact quite capable of running their pledging program without killing, injuring, or psychologically harming their pledges.

But one pledge who dies from over drinking when he was urged on by his fraternity brothers means that the entire system is, effectively, grounded because we too wear Greek letters.

[Redtony]

When I was in H.S. and college frats still kinda ruled. We didn't, however, consider a voluntary paddling to be hazing. The paddlings were a long tradition, and though freshman were paddled frequently, so were a lot of the upperclassmen, too. These were the toughest punishment paddlings imaginable, administered by two alumni who were very, very, strict. As a senior, I took one every other week, with some strong encouragement from my gf. Quite honestly, the discipline the paddlings provided was good for me.

Tony

[SLGamma]

well everything is considered hazing now days, you cant even tell somebody to wear a shirt on a certain day bc thats hazing, and fun scavenger hunts, and being called pledge instead of new member or somehting... its insane now!

[sdsuchelle]

When I was in H.S. and college frats still kinda ruled. We didn't, however, consider a voluntary paddling to be hazing. The paddlings were a long tradition, and though freshman were paddled frequently, so were a lot of the upperclassmen, too. These were the toughest punishment paddlings imaginable, administered by two alumni who were very, very, strict. As a senior, I took one every other week, with some strong encouragement from my gf. Quite honestly, the discipline the paddlings provided was good for me.

Tony

Whoa.

I find the whole idea of paddling to be EXTREMELY weird, like f'ed-up-in-the-head weird. I keep picturing people wearing black latex in dungeons.

[JonInKC]

Whoa.

I find the whole idea of paddling to be EXTREMELY weird, like f'ed-up-in-the-head weird. I keep picturing people wearing black latex in dungeons.

You never saw Dazed and Confused?

[SigKapNSK]

our chapter doesnt haze, ive heard rumors that we used to. if thats true im sure glad we dont anymore! i know some of the frats at my school haze.

[SCdelt10]

yea, the rules of hazing are screwed up. one frat on campus was put on probation for having a scavenger hunt...what the hell.....that is total shit. how can you expect pledges to bond if they cant even ever have the oppurtunity to work as a team?

[susan314]

I pledged 15 years ago. We did not do anything that would have been considered hazing by the standards of that time, and I was never uncomfortable at any time during my pledge period. (I say "pledge period," because 15 years ago we were still "pledges" not "new members." :) )

I suppose there were things that happened that might be considered hazing by today's very broad standards. (Nothing bad. We did interviews with actives, which actually helped me get to know my new sisters. We did a scavenger hunt. We had a pledge serenade, as did every other chapter on my campus. It was all fun stuff, and I'm certain that if someone in my pledge class had objected to one of the tasks she would not have been penalized in any way. I never would have initiated into an organization that would have done something I felt was crossing the line. If I had been improperly treated as a pledge, I simply would have dropped out - Greek Life wasn't that big on my campus and I certainly could have been happy as a GDI.)

I think that with the current hazing restrictions, its a case of a few bad apples spoiling things for everyone. Its unfortunate that some activities that could be considered fun and team building had to be ruled out, because of the actions of an irresponsible few. (Though obviously I agree with the harmful tasks being banned.)

[TailorMade]

Personally I dont think people would honestly come in here & say if they chapter was hazing. It could be damging to the chapter, the University & the Organization as a whole

[(*0*1*1*9*1*1*)]

This is in response to a certain case about an organization that had a few of its members placed in court for physically beating a pledge...

I dont understand.... Why is it important to initiate members in that fashion. I always understood Greek life to be about, at least, bulding brotherhood. I know it cant be brought into detail, but what is it that the beatings represent? Does it actually build a bond, or is it done because its just tradtion?

I'd like some response if any one has one!

Hate to be the one to say it, but a lot of chapters do justify the beatings with the tradition ploy. However, I know in some cases, it is to build a bond or to test the determination of the line and the length at which a pledge will endure physical harm to become a brother (or sister, sorry forgot there were 2 genders:o ). In some cases, it's just because it's fun to beat someone with no resistance (which is a shame, but hey... it happens). Comments are welcome.

[OmegaPDPrez]

^^^^ WOW!!!:eek:

[KSUViolet06]

Hate to be the one to say it, but a lot of chapters do justify the beatings with the tradition ploy. However, I know in some cases, it is to build a bond or to test the determination of the line and the length at which a pledge will endure physical harm to become a brother (or sister, sorry forgot there were 2 genders:o ). In some cases, it's just because it's fun to beat someone with no resistance (which is a shame, but hey... it happens). Comments are welcome.


There was a girl in my hall who was sent to the hospital because of hazing. She told the hospital that she fell down the building steps. She said she was happy that she was going to be an XYZ (I won't disclose the sorority) and didn't care that her kidneys were bruised from being paddled so severely. She said it was all "going to be wrth it." Bitch please. Like I said before, my parents didn't/don't beat me or attempt to control me, why would I let some randoms do it, just for the sake of being able to call myself an XYZ?

[sphinxbeauty]

This whole topic is very touchy. Some people are saying that it's more of a "right of passage" thing. I know people from other schools that have gone to the hospital because of hazing (forced to drink). For those who haven't heard, one of the frats at Rider lost a new member (he died) and another hospitalized because the news said he was drinking too much during their B/L night. Now since everyone here is in a GLO, you understand that rumors/gossip will always be a big thing among greeks. We may never know exactly what happened, but we need to know be aware that accidents happen to those who say "it could never happen to me".


[there is a thread about this "Student on Life Support: Alcohol (Rider U. Phi Kappa Tau Event) (http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=85868) "]

[punkgurl]

My chapter does not haze at all. My new member period was actually the best part of my sorority experience this far. We were invited to everything and given gifts. My chapter is really strict about not hazing because several years ago they got in trouble for it. All the people who hazed are now either graduated or kicked out. But I think the defintion of hazing has become too wide. I think it would have been awesome to do a scavenger hunt or something as a new member, as a way to bond with my pledge class but we never got to do anything like that. I also think that a lot of tradition has been dropped from our chapter. Granted there are somethings that used to be done that I am very glad I never had to go through. But part of me feels like you should have to jump through a few hoops to join because it helps you decide how badly you want it. This is not to say I advocate any sort of physical harm, I would have never joined any organization that hurt their members.

[kathykd2005]

I was absolutely NEVER hazed!!! I'm really not sure why some of the men in this thread think that we women are lying about this--what would be the point? Hazing is counter-productive. Why would you hurt someone you purport to want to be "sisters" with? It makes no sense. It's really rather sad that so many chapters and Greek organizations DO still haze. As a national rule, KD does not haze, along with the other Panhellenic sororities. I know for a fact that if National KD finds out about hazing, that chapter will be shut down IMMEDIATELY. It's happened on many occasions, and I know it's happened in other Panhellenic sororities, too. :mad:

[macallan25]

You are in a sorority, none of the guys should expect you to be hazed, perhaps you misunderstood some comments. Furthemore, you can haze without hurting people...don't be ignorant.

[kathykd2005]

A chapter can work as a team in other ways--how about a new member retreat? Or planning recruitment together. What about a philanthropy event? Or even an event for campus-wide education, like on a social issue? How about even a social event, like a formal, or another mixer? Think about what the potential dangers of a scavenger hunt are--one person getting lost, someone being left behind if it's off-campus, someone getting hurt and no one knowing about it. The dangers far out-weigh the "benefits." If you want to "Scavenger Hunt," do it inside the house--hiding clues behind composites, in the kitchen, under chairs. It's still fun, but has less of a risk-management issue.

yea, the rules of hazing are screwed up. one frat on campus was put on probation for having a scavenger hunt...what the hell.....that is total shit. how can you expect pledges to bond if they cant even ever have the oppurtunity to work as a team?

[kathykd2005]

You are in a sorority, none of the guys should expect you to be hazed, perhaps you misunderstood some comments. Furthemore, you can haze without hurting people...don't be ignorant.


I'm certainly not being ignorant, and I wasn't addressing you specifically--I'm not sure why you had to call me out personally. Hazing can hurt people physically and emotionally. This is why many Greek organizations completely condemn it, and give specific examples of what it is.

[SigKapNSK]

its funny because i know all of the girls in my pledge class have said we wouldnt have ever joined a sorority if we got hazed buuut i know a frat that hazes and they all pledgeship was "the best week of your life that you never want to do again".

[DSTRen13]

Think about what the potential dangers of a scavenger hunt are--one person getting lost, someone being left behind if it's off-campus, someone getting hurt and no one knowing about it. The dangers far out-weigh the "benefits."

Are you being sarcastic or serious? You make a scavenger hunt sound like a some sort of life or death trek through the rainforest or something ...

[kathykd2005]

Are you being sarcastic or serious? You make a scavenger hunt sound like a some sort of life or death trek through the rainforest or something ...

Yes, I am serious. Because some (not all) chapters take the scavenger hunt too far (both literally and figuratively). For instance, my sister in law was in a local and was dropped off in the middle of the woods, in upstate NY, with barely any clothes on, under the guise of a "Scavenger Hunt." When Scavenger Hunts go off campus, it sometimes gets out of hand. Can Scavenger Hunts be fun? Yes. However, is there a potential for disaster? Absolutely yes. Not to say that these occurrences are all COMMON, but they do happen, and it's really not altogether very amusing or safe for members. :p Thanks for asking for clarification though.

[macallan25]

its funny because i know all of the girls in my pledge class have said we wouldnt have ever joined a sorority if we got hazed buuut i know a frat that hazes and they all pledgeship was "the best week of your life that you never want to do again".


My pledgeship was absolutely the best thing I have ever done that I would never do again. Incredible experience.

[Thunder_Of_MB]

I enjoyed my intake process! :D

[OmegaPDPrez]

lol...since i am a co-founder of a local, for now, there is no hazing...
but it leads me to wonder what would happen about 50 years from now

I believe that sometimes traditions become something they werent meant to be and are subjected to misinterpretation to each chapter.
I heard that essentially every chapter of a group would have the same intake process but is it possible that because of law changes,
and the time era, that actions that take place today were not what many founders had in mind when they created an organization?

[Kevin]

I heard that essentially every chapter of a group would have the same intake process but is it possible that because of law changes, and the time era, that actions that take place today were not what many founders had in mind when they created an organization?

Well, in 1869, when my organization was founded, you're right, things were pretty different. I'm not sure (and I don't think anyone knows really) what the pledge programs were like in those days or whether such a thing existed.

I can tell you for certain though -- for most major nationals, pledging today is nothing like it was even a few years ago. Nearly all of us for risk management reasons are pushing our chapters very, very hard to switch from "traditional" means of pledging (hazing) to nationally created programs which are created to build brotherhood, teach teamwork, etc., but not break the law at the same time.

Many chapters still do both.

Some things will remain the same, other things will change with the times.

[RU OX Alum]

Well, in 1869, when my organization was founded, you're right, things were pretty different. I'm not sure (and I don't think anyone knows really) what the pledge programs were like in those days or whether such a thing existed.

I can tell you for certain though -- for most major nationals, pledging today is nothing like it was even a few years ago. Nearly all of us for risk management reasons are pushing our chapters very, very hard to switch from "traditional" means of pledging (hazing) to nationally created programs which are created to build brotherhood, teach teamwork, etc., but not break the law at the same time.

Many chapters still do both.

Some things will remain the same, other things will change with the times.


back in the twenties no one pledged at all. You were invited, then about week or so later you would be initiated. Hazing followed rush, and the second world war, i beilieve. I don't know, I'm just testing my signature.

I would still pledge again. No one pledged harder than my pledge class (some of them really hated us becauser our names also are on the charter)

I'd still pledge again though.

[SigmaNuHX766]

Before I joined Sigma Nu, I had a TERRIBLE experience pledging a certain major national fraternity on my campus. As someone who has gone through Navy Boot Camp at Recruit Training Center, Great Lakes, I can tell you, that was a shitty time... but not as bad as having my peers on a college campus dehumanize me and my fellow pledges the way they did. I told them what they could do with their "values" and I told them where they could stick their pledge process. I survived Navy Senior Chiefs and Marine Gunnery Seargents. I didn't need their brotherhood if it meant taking their abuse.

I gave Greek life a break for 3 years following my bad experience, and I had a VERY negative view of fraternities until about a year ago when friends from my Freshman year encouraged me to check out Sigma Nu.

I went to a few events and found that the brothers were more curious about me, who I was, and what I could offer to them, rather than being intent on breaking me down and molding me into a cookie-cutter "frat boy". I was called a Candidate rather than pledge, I was educated instead of mistreated, I was treated as a peer instead of a subordinate, and I was given respect as I gave it.

This past week, I celebrated the one year anniversary of being initiated into Sigma Nu, and it has been one of the best years of my life. You don't need to put people through hell to forge them into something stronger, and Sigma Nu recognizes that.

I am PROUD to be a part of this organization, and wouldn't trade my experience with it for all of the money in the world.

LOVE, TRUTH, AND HONOR!
-Jason Allen

[OmegaPDPrez]

I am PROUD to be a part of this organization, and wouldn't trade my experience with it for all of the money in the world.



I love this post the most of every one that ive read on GC!!! Esp. this line
I know that everyone here can say that about their own GLO:D :D :D

[deeznutz]

Hazing??????????What's that?????????Isnt there a rule about hazing??????