Dirty Rush

[adpiucf]

Scenario: Your campus has deferred recruitment and you are a PNM. What would you do if a group of sorority members from one sorority asked you out to dinner and it was well-known that this was a chapter that had been routinely taking PNMs out for meals? What would you say without making it seem like you were giving them the brush-off and in the interests of a fair recruitment?

[texgal]

If they are buying PNMs dinner, that constitutes as gifts which should be against Panhellenic rules. So it's dirty rushing. Tell the Panhellenic advisor.

[UGAalum94]

My school did rush even before classes started. I don't know much about rush rules with deferred rush.

What are the rules about contact before rush begins? Do greek women basically not talk to frosh until rush is over? Is it only a problem if it's a group of women exclusively from one sorority spending time with a group of women likely to go through rush?

The question is tough. I don't think I would have been able to turn in a group that I was interested in joining; I'm also afraid that I wouldn't have had the strength of character to turn down the invitation either.

[PeppyGPhiB]

I'm playing the Devil's Advocate here, but honestly I think a lot of PNMs would love to be in that spot of being asked to dinner by a sorority they might be interested in. If that were the case, I doubt they'd report it. Most likely to report something like this are PNMs who are not being asked to dinner, and sororities that are playing by the rules.

For those of you that do deferred recruitment, how do you handle dirty rushing at things like parties? It happened on my campus with only a few weeks before the start of classes and rush, so I imagine with a whole semester/two quarters of classes it must be close to unavoidable.

[OTW]

I'm playing the Devil's Advocate here, but honestly I think a lot of PNMs would love to be in that spot of being asked to dinner by a sorority they might be interested in. If that were the case, I doubt they'd report it. Most likely to report something like this are PNMs who are not being asked to dinner, and sororities that are playing by the rules.

What's the likelihood that the PNM will even know what dirty rushing is?

If I were the PNM, I'd be flattered if a sorority took me out. Dirty rushing would be the least of my worries if it meant that I'd have a better chance of getting a bid from them.

[ADqtPiMel]

My school does deferred recruitment, but we don't have any contact rules. Each sorority does two informal "sprite dates" during first semester, which are big events that any interested PNM can attend (my chapter has done a group fitness class, a midnight movie and a non-alcoholic tailgate before a football game). Additionally, sorority members can invite PNMs out to dinner, etc. on a more informal basis. My younger sister is rushing at my campus, and I know she's been out to dinner and hanging out with members of my chapter.

[PeppyGPhiB]

What's the likelihood that the PNM will even know what dirty rushing is?

If I were the PNM, I'd be flattered if a sorority took me out. Dirty rushing would be the least of my worries if it meant that I'd have a better chance of getting a bid from them.

Agreed, I would've been flattered too, and would basically think, "It's up to the other sororities to worry about this stuff, not me!"

But, we did actually know what the sorority members were allowed to do and not-do, but only after meeting with our recruitment counselors for the first time. They explained it to us so we wouldn't be confused if the girls that had been so friendly to us one night basically ignored us when we saw them the next morning.

Honestly, the way it happened on my campus when I was there: up until the couple weeks before rush, pretty much everything was fair game. Members would chat girls up at parties, go to places on/off campus that they knew were freshman hangouts, talk to any PNMs in their classes, etc. I think panhellenic has cracked down on this a little, but I'm sure some of this stuff still goes on.

[blackngoldengrl]

At my school, the deferred rush is until a person is a sophomore. So going to dinner as a freshman is okay. Going to parties with freshmen women or inviting them to a closed party would probably be looked at as dirty rushing, but for the most part that is still allowed technically. I think the official silent period begins on the first day of school or first day back on campus where you could be spotted!
I know for a fact that there was a sorority on my campus that took freshmen to the bars, and most of them were on the same sports team.

[blackngoldengrl]

Scenario: Your campus has deferred recruitment and you are a PNM. What would you do if a group of sorority members from one sorority asked you out to dinner and it was well-known that this was a chapter that had been routinely taking PNMs out for meals? What would you say without making it seem like you were giving them the brush-off and in the interests of a fair recruitment?

I'd probably tell them that I would love to go to dinner, but I didn't want to get them in trouble by being seen with them. I'd voice my concerns to them and see how they reacted. But as a PNM, I'd probably end up going b/c of the reasons listed above and I definitely would not have known as a freshman that this was not allowed.

[KDMafia]

Well if it was the entire sorority having dinner with one freshman I think it would be considered a rush event, which would be dirty rushing. I know that at my campus silence between actives and PNMs started in october-novemberish. There was no harm with people hanging out with freshman before that as long as it didn't come across like a formal invitation from teh sorority. So a sister could invite a freshman to dinner with her a couple girls, but a freshman couldn't get an email from the sorority recruitment chair asking her over to watch movies with the chapter.

As far as dirty rushing, it happened at my undergrad but ti's hard to catch. Often time the girls that get dirty rushed dont tell cause they're happy with their bid, and girls that feel they were dirty rushed and didn't get a bid are too embarassed. The one time a sorority got caught talking badly about another sorority in their pref night occurred because they said it too a girl they thought was all about them but was really all about the sororoity they were trashing.

There also is a very fine line between being excellent rushers who make every girl feel like they're welcome and loved and blatantly leading a girl on to believe she will get a bid.

[PenguinTrax]

It all depends on what the contact rules are for PNMs and chapters.

[33girl]

Well it depends on a lot of things...

Are they taking her out for some super expensive meal, or just TGIFriday's or the like?

Is it THE WHOLE sorority on one freshman, or a mixed group of people - some freshmen, some guys, some sorority girls?

Does at least one person in the sorority group know the girl before the invite is given from class or dorms or something, or do they come up to the girl out of the blue and say "hey! Go to dinner with us!"

Deferred rush is supposed to encourage normal social interaction and it would be a shame if that was cut out (although as is very clear from a lot of the posts on here, there are MANY campuses and Panhellenics that don't understand that at all), but rush or not, if a bunch of girls I'd never met came up to me and asked me to go to Morton's for dinner, I'd seriously wonder WTF was up with that and probably say no.

[WVU alpha phi]

I absolutely hate when girls dirty rush. I was dirty rushed when I went through recruitment, and I had no idea it was against the rules. I later found out the chapter who dirty rushed me BUILT INTO THEIR DUES enough money to cover rush fines. Panhellenic finally got wind of it this year and they were forced to stop doing that.
Now, being on the other side of rush, I can't stand when other sororities dirty rush girls. My chapter is ridiculously strict about it- our VP Recruitment will individually call us out if we get fined for something like this. I was livid last night when I was looking at a girl's facebook profile who I rushed the day before and absolutely LOVED. She's torn between us and another sorority on campus- the one we always compete with during rush because we're so similar. I saw numerous postings on her wall from members of the other sorority. I turned them into our VP Recruitment, who said she'd been filling out rush infraction forms all night for those girls. It just sucks because the PNMs are told by their Rho Chis that this is against the rules, but I'm sure they don't think ike that. I know I would've been realy flattered going through rush if a sorority I liked wrote all over my wall.

Ahhhh dirty rushing.

[33girl]

It seems like there needs to be a bigger penalty for violating the rules so that chapters won't do things like build the infractions into dues, etc.

The only thing I could think of would be losing pledges or campus social privileges. The first isn't permitted by the Green Book and the second - if these girls have the $$$ to build in for infraction fines, they have the $$$ and means to get around social probation.

Plus if (as is often the case, sadly) the group infractioning is one of the more popular on campus and Panhel forbids them from having mixers or such, it just makes the other sororities look like jealous bitches to the guys, cause guys don't understand the whole infraction thing.

[PinkandGreenJ]

I was dirty rushed and frankly it was fun. I ended up at a top house and never complained, not that I would really have thought to or thought that it wsa "dirty" anyway.

[Ocalagirl]

I know of one chapter in Florida (not at UCF) that builds into their dues to pay for rush infractions for all members to dress alike. This particular chapter also bills their members $700 because they mass order clothes for all active members which included 7 jeans and Lacoste polo shirts. Another chapter I heard of (again not at UCF) made all their members wear Spankz under their clothes which honestly struck me as funny.

[tunatartare]

I know of one chapter in Florida (not at UCF) that builds into their dues to pay for rush infractions for all members to dress alike. This particular chapter also bills their members $700 because they mass order clothes for all active members which included 7 jeans and Lacoste polo shirts. Another chapter I heard of (again not at UCF) made all their members wear Spankz under their clothes which honestly struck me as funny.
Unless the school specifically prohibits this, I'm pretty sure it's not a rush infraction.

[OtterXO]

Unless the school specifically prohibits this, I'm pretty sure it's not a rush infraction.

I was just thinking that. My chapter mass ordered clothes for rush....but everyone did that at my school.

[WCUgirl]

The funny thing about dirty rushing is that the damage is already done by the time the fine is paid by the house. I've heard of situations where the rush chair in a chapter will be in contact with the disaffiliated rush counselors, etc. There's really no way to stop that sort of stuff. Plus, if the chapter is caught....the penalty is money. It's not like they lose their pledge class.

It seems like there needs to be a bigger penalty for violating the rules so that chapters won't do things like build the infractions into dues, etc.

I completely agree. I think they SHOULD lose new members, or not be allowed to participate in recruitment the following year, or something more strict than simply fining them. But, whatever.

[PinkandGreenJ]

Its so much cheaper that way too.

[Ocalagirl]

Unless the school specifically prohibits this, I'm pretty sure it's not a rush infraction.

The rules DO prohibit this, but they eat the infraction bill each year because they can afford it.

[AlphaFrog]

The rules DO prohibit this, but they eat the infraction bill each year because they can afford it.

I just don't get why they would waste major $$$ just to dress alike.

Especially since most schools would allow them to have 1/4 in 7 jeans and a Green polo, 1/4 in Paiges and a Gold polo, 1/4 in Chip & Pepper and a red polo, and 1/4 in Gucci and a white polo and not get an infraction. (Just as an example, if ASA was going to dress designer....not to mention that afterwards they could all go stand in an intersection and direct traffic...gotta love our stoplight colors.:p )

[tunatartare]

The rules DO prohibit this, but they eat the infraction bill each year because they can afford it.
In that case, it's the panhel's fault for not implementing stricter consequences for having an infraction. Either that or this sorority has some mighty wealthy and powerful alums.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Dressing in the exact same outfit (unless panhellenic provides it) is against the rules for most no-frills campuses. The whole idea of no-frills is to paint a more accurate picture of the chapter, which does not include shelling out $$$ to dress alike on a daily basis.

[tunatartare]

To play devil's advocate here, there are some chapters where everyone in the sorority can afford 7 for all mankind jeans and wears them. It could be possible for everyone to have the same jeans and polo since they're "basic" things.

[33girl]

Dressing in the exact same outfit (unless panhellenic provides it) is against the rules for most no-frills campuses. The whole idea of no-frills is to paint a more accurate picture of the chapter, which does not include shelling out $$$ to dress alike on a daily basis.

Although I'm the queen of pushing no-frills...if I was the rush chair and had to worry about 200 individuals' interpretations of "cute and casual, polos and nice jeans" I think I'd probably eat the infraction bill too. I know there are such things as dress checks, but I can't imagine that telling someone "Magda, your jeans are too tight and that green polo makes you look like Kermit" lessens any of the stress of rush.

[NutBrnHair]

Trust me, the initial NPC Rush Resolutions (referred to by many as "no frills") said nothing about not being able to dress alike. I think if a chapter chooses to do it...great. If your chapter doesn't want to...great. I'm tired of college panhellenics dictating every minute detail. It removes much of the creativity & fun that can be a part of recruitment.

Be careful that "NO FRILLS" doesn't turn into "NO FUN!"

[adpiucf]

Thanks for the responses. A PNM told me that "ABC" and "XYZ" keep inviting the same girls out to dinners. Her "NOP" classmate used the phrase, "Dirty Rush," when these dinners were mentioned. She wondered what she should do if she encountered the situation.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Although I'm the queen of pushing no-frills...if I was the rush chair and had to worry about 200 individuals' interpretations of "cute and casual, polos and nice jeans" I think I'd probably eat the infraction bill too. I know there are such things as dress checks, but I can't imagine that telling someone "Magda, your jeans are too tight and that green polo makes you look like Kermit" lessens any of the stress of rush.

We usually gave guidelines like "Wear a light pink tshirt and a denim skirt." It allowed women to wear clothes that looked good on them, and expressed their own style without it looking chaotic.

Trust me, the initial NPC Rush Resolutions (referred to by many as "no frills") said nothing about not being able to dress alike. I think if a chapter chooses to do it...great. If your chapter doesn't want to...great. I'm tired of college panhellenics dictating every minute detail. It removes much of the creativity & fun that can be a part of recruitment.

Be careful that "NO FRILLS" doesn't turn into "NO FUN!"


This is a perfect example of how recruitment can vary widely from campus to campus. At my school (a private in Southern Calif.) I think many of the sorority members would have complained about having to be identical. I know my chapter, which always touted our diversity and individuality of its members (and meant it) would have never accepted wearing the same outfit. Not to mention that most chapters at my school had women of all shapes and sizes, and putting them all in one outfit is not always possible or attractive.

I know what you mean by not getting carried away with no-frills, though. I remember the year I was on panhellenic exec. and we had to actually designate the BRAND of bottled water each chapter should buy for their parties because some groups were concerned the PNMs would judge them on whether they got store-brand or name-brand.

[AlphaFrog]

I know what you mean by not getting carried away with no-frills, though. I remember the year I was on panhellenic exec. and we had to actually designate the BRAND of bottled water each chapter should buy for their parties because some groups were concerned the PNMs would judge them on whether they got store-brand or name-brand.

OH. MY. GOD. I would have told them to STFU and spend the extra $25 to get Evian instead of Sam's Choice if it meant that much to them. Hell, go all out and get Pellegrino for all I care, it's your rush budget.

[PeppyGPhiB]

I think we ended up picking Sparkletts because it could be found at any supermarket in the L.A. area :D

[NutBrnHair]

I know what you mean by not getting carried away with no-frills, though. I remember the year I was on panhellenic exec. and we had to actually designate the BRAND of bottled water each chapter should buy for their parties because some groups were concerned the PNMs would judge them on whether they got store-brand or name-brand.
This is exactly why I would have never lasted as a Panhellenic rep!
By the time Rush would start, I would have been bald from pulling my hair out over silly debates like this!
I call it "majoring in the minors!"

[PeppyGPhiB]

It's pretty funny when I look back on it. I loved being on panhellenic, actually, and I preferred being on that side of rush. Disaffiliation was not fun, but on the other hand, the Rho Chis were basically our own little sorority. I also thought it was interesting getting to hear the comments from PNMs on all the sororities and seeing how releases, bid matching, etc. works from the panhellenic perspective.

The one year I was with my chapter during rush, I found it very stressful in comparison. Our rush advisor was from a southern univ. and was used to a totally different type of recruitment. Some of her tricks and tips made us giggle or roll our eyes, BUT I do have to say that our preference room looked like Heaven on Earth, and blew everyone else's away.

[Buttonz]

The one year I was with my chapter during rush, I found it very stressful in comparison. Our rush advisor was from a southern univ. and was used to a totally different type of recruitment. Some of her tricks and tips made us giggle or roll our eyes, BUT I do have to say that our preference room looked like Heaven on Earth, and blew everyone else's away.

I've always wonder why aren't rush advisors and advisors in general pairs with schools that have similair systems that they are used to? If you rushed and spent all your time as an active in a large South system, and then as an advisor go up North, or out West, it's a totally differnet type of rush. Same with dorm schools vs. non-dorm schools, schools that everyone has a house vs. no one does, and the like. I have never understood this...

[adpiucf]

B/c advising is a volunteer position and people move. ;)

[Jen]

As a PNM I'd probably jump at the chance if it was a group I liked (seeing as it's deferred recruitment, I'd probably get an idea of what the groups were like efore recruitment).

Dirty rushing is really on the chapters to prevent, not the PNM - you can't really blame them for wanting to maximize their chances and you can't prove they did or didn't know it was against the rules, so they can't really be punished.

The chapters need to be held to stricter punishments - no formals, huge fines etc in order to curb their want to dirty rush.

[blackngoldengrl]

some of our consultants are paired with schools that had similar "greek culture." But i think a little diversity can add fresh air to a recruitment style. However, it was interesting talking with our consultant from a larger Washington state school, when I was at an east coast small private school!

[adpiucf]

Back to my original question-- what does the PNM say to such an invitation if she is asked and does not feel comfortable accepting, knowing it is against the rules and caring that it is against the rules?

[OtterXO]

Back to my original question-- what does the PNM say to such an invitation if she is asked and does not feel comfortable accepting, knowing it is against the rules and caring that it is against the rules?


Weeeeeeell, to avoid offending anyone she could be like "I'd love to! But wait-isn't that against rush rules or something?" and then go from there. Sort of playing dumb (which I NEVER advocate except in this particular type of situation) in order to avoid looking like the Rush Rules Enforcer Marshall or something.

[TSteven]

Back to my original question-- what does the PNM say to such an invitation if she is asked and does not feel comfortable accepting, knowing it is against the rules and caring that it is against the rules?

"Thank you for your kind invitation and for thinking of me. Unfortunately, I am unable to attend. Perhaps we can get together at a later date."

[Buttonz]

B/c advising is a volunteer position and people move. ;)

True, but I think if at all possible, advisors should be paired up with similar systems that they are used to. We had the problem with my chapter, as a lot of people are unaware how a commuter school with a small greek system with locals that don't participate in FR have to go about doing things differnt from a non-commuter school/school that doesn't have the problem with locals, etc.

[OtterXO]

"Thank you for your kind invitation and for thinking of me. Unfortunately, I am unable to attend. Perhaps we can get together at a later date."

It seems a little formal for college aged conversation.... Plus, it sounds like a polite way to say "I'm not interested".

[PeppyGPhiB]

Back to my original question-- what does the PNM say to such an invitation if she is asked and does not feel comfortable accepting, knowing it is against the rules and caring that it is against the rules?

Something like "That would be so fun! But isn't it against the rules? I don't want to get you guys in trouble..." That way it looks like she's looking out for them.

Once the sorority members realize that she knows it's against the rules and questioned them about it, I bet they would back off (if they're smart they would).

[TSteven]

It seems a little formal for college aged conversation.... Plus, it sounds like a polite way to say "I'm not interested".

True. The tone of the reply should "fit" the tone of the invitation.

The issue is how to be polite and interested, yet decline the invite. All the while avoiding opening up the conversation as to "why" she won't accept the bid. If she says, "That is totally cool. But isn't that against the rules?" might not get her a bid during formal rush. So perhaps something like "Thanks, that sounds like fun. Unfortunately, I can't make it." Or "Wow. That is so something I would love to do. But I can't make it Friday. Maybe sometime later." (Or what ever vernacular the kids are using these days.)

[TSteven]

Something like "That would be so fun! But isn't it against the rules? I don't want to get you guys in trouble..." That way it looks like she's looking out for them.

Once the sorority members realize that she knows it's against the rules and questioned them about it, I bet they would back off (if they're smart they would).

I agree. This is an excellent way to reply.

[Designergal3]

I know of one chapter in Florida (not at UCF) that builds into their dues to pay for rush infractions for all members to dress alike. This particular chapter also bills their members $700 because they mass order clothes for all active members which included 7 jeans and Lacoste polo shirts. Another chapter I heard of (again not at UCF) made all their members wear Spankz under their clothes which honestly struck me as funny.

ok that is being wayyy too superficial and image concious... not to mention a bit psycho. If i rushed at a house where the girls all dressed exactly the same, and I'd guess LOOKED the same, I think i would have run out screaming.

[Designergal3]

I can't imagine that telling someone "Magda, your jeans are too tight and that green polo makes you look like Kermit" lessens any of the stress of rush.

LMAO.... Kermit... hah hah hah

[AnchorAlumna]

True, but I think if at all possible, advisors should be paired up with similar systems that they are used to. We had the problem with my chapter, as a lot of people are unaware how a commuter school with a small greek system with locals that don't participate in FR have to go about doing things differnt from a non-commuter school/school that doesn't have the problem with locals, etc.
Buttonz, volunteers don't grow on trees. You usually have to take what you can get.

[AnchorAlumna]

ok that is being wayyy too superficial and image concious... not to mention a bit psycho. If i rushed at a house where the girls all dressed exactly the same, and I'd guess LOOKED the same, I think i would have run out screaming.

Gee it's just for rush! And everybody wearing the same thing is WAY less stressful than choosing an outfit and going through dress check or "Charm Board" or whatever your chapter calls it and being told the outfit won't work, or the pink is the wrong shade, or the shoes are too worn out. WAY back in the day...this was like 1972...we decided to all wear different outfits for rush to show that we were individuals. Turns out everybody hated it. It was too hard to tell who the sorority member was and who the rushees were.

[Buttonz]

Buttonz, volunteers don't grow on trees. You usually have to take what you can get.

That's why I said if it was possible to happen :)

[ADPiZXalum]

I hate dirty rushing. I heard MANY times girls drop out because XYZ promised them they'd be in their sorority and they got cut by them after Round 2. My favorite was hearing girls come back later and tell us, "I really liked your chapter and would've joined but ABC (the group they joined) told me you guys were getting kicked off campus." :mad:

[LaneSig]

I hate dirty rushing. I heard MANY times girls drop out because XYZ promised them they'd be in their sorority and they got cut by them after Round 2. My favorite was hearing girls come back later and tell us, "I really liked your chapter and would've joined but ABC (the group they joined) told me you guys were getting kicked off campus." :mad:

This reminds me of my school. When I was at Arkansas State, our Kappa Delta and Zeta Tau Alpha chapters were both struggling with numbers. One chapter on campus kept telling pnms that both of the chapters were going to close. Unfortunately that has happened. But, guess who is the struggling chapter now? That's right: the chapter that kept spreading rumors about KD and ZTA.

[lillady85]

I figured I'd bump this because my question is about dirty rushing.
So...
Is it considered un-Panhellenic to advertise sorority events that won't take place until the school year, now in July, when no other group/organization is even on campus? Is this considered dirty rushing or just...bending the rules a bit? I understand wanting to get out your sorority but, when no one but potential rushee's are on campus? :rolleyes:

Here's my question, when is is considered 'dirty'? What have y'all done with this kind of situation? I just don't know if it's really an offense.

[violetpretty]

I figured I'd bump this because my question is about dirty rushing.
So...
Is it considered un-Panhellenic to advertise sorority events that won't take place until the school year, now in July, when no other group/organization is even on campus? Is this considered dirty rushing or just...bending the rules a bit? I understand wanting to get out your sorority but, when no one but potential rushee's are on campus? :rolleyes:

Here's my question, when is is considered 'dirty'? What have y'all done with this kind of situation? I just don't know if it's really an offense.

I'd say just ask your campus Panhellenic, since they all have different rules regarding what is "dirty rushing" and what isn't.

[UGAalum94]

I figured I'd bump this because my question is about dirty rushing.
So...
Is it considered un-Panhellenic to advertise sorority events that won't take place until the school year, now in July, when no other group/organization is even on campus? Is this considered dirty rushing or just...bending the rules a bit? I understand wanting to get out your sorority but, when no one but potential rushee's are on campus? :rolleyes:

Here's my question, when is is considered 'dirty'? What have y'all done with this kind of situation? I just don't know if it's really an offense.

That's kind of interesting. VioletPretty is right that your CPC will know for sure, but it sounds like it could either be a good PR move to get the word out about your group to PNMs (if for example, it was a philanthropic event you were advertising) or it could be in really bad taste if it made all GLO look like wild partiers or something.

If it's allowed, all the groups will just need to do it next year.

[adpiucf]

I can't see why it would be against the rules to advertise an event that won't be held for several months... but the question is, is your target audience even on campus right now and will your time and effort be wasted? Definitely check with the campus Panhellenic.

But common sense suggests that you aren't holding any events during the silence period, and you should be allowed to generally promote your organization to the campus-at-large 365 days a year.

Oh and as a follow up to my original post, our PNM happily pledged her first choice (ZTA) at Baylor and is loving her sorority and university! :)

[33girl]

I can't see why it would be against the rules to advertise an event that won't be held for several months... but the question is, is your target audience even on campus right now and will your time and effort be wasted?



I'm guessing that their target audience (freshmen) is on campus right now, for orientation.

It's actually a good idea, but it would be better to promote Panhel in general rather than one sorority doing it individually. But hey, if they thought of it first....

[adpiucf]

I guess it depends on what and how you are advertising.

The sororities at my school used to put up home-made banners during the summer orientation that would say things like, "ADPi welcomes you to UCF!" and "Tri-Delta <3's UCF" or even "Sorority Recruitment Forum: UCF Arena 8/24 @ 3 PM" outside of our houses or around campus. I don't see how that could be construed as dirty rushing.

ETA... I even think a direct mail piece shouldn't be considered dirty either, if its purpose was to invite you to a future event. But if the message's purpose is to acquaint a non-affiliated woman with your sorority during the silence period, I think that would be considered not only unusual, but also a bit suspect. So I think if it's a simple "You're invited to a tea at XYZ! DATE/TIME, etc.," then that should be fine. I wouldn't suggest an RSVP mechanism until after silence has ended. And I woudn't suggest any literature about XYZ sorority being distributed directly to a PNM by XYZ sorority-- the campus Panhellenic is doing this with their recruitment materials, anyway.

You can, however, sneak your web URL onto any advertisments-- your web site would include all kinds of info about the organization and recruitment, etc.

And I agree, if you thought of it first, and it's a general public announcement in the school paper, a banner, etc., go for it... as long as you're not breaking any personal contact rules for the purpose of acquainting non-affiliated with your sorority, there should be no problem. But as a show of good faith, it doesn't hurt to loop in your chapter adviser and the campus Greek adviser before you act.

[lillady85]

Thanks!
That was my question, if it was considered dirty which we didn't know since all the pnm's are on campus right now. Being that the sign essentially says "XYZ (this is our event three months from now in tiny letters). Props to them for doing it first, but I think someone already told panhel and more signs have gone up.

[danielleymarie]

Okay so the whole dirty rush thing I'm unsure about since I went through an informal rush. But I'm so confused... here's my situation...

My cousin & I are really close & he's coming to my University in the fall. He has a new girlfriend & I've been spending a lot of time with her. She introduced me to some of her friends who will also be coming to my school, all super cute girls. A few of them were at a family party with my cousin & I had some of my sisters visiting at the time. They asked about the school & sororities in general. Now they are really interesting in rushing in the fall.

One of my friends at a different school said that they would consider that dirty rushing since it would be suspected that we convinced these girls to go through rush.

Personally I think it's BS. Who's to say that they actually will go through with rush, or that they will choose to rush my sorority. There were no gifts given or antying & everything was just by a matter of chance. These girls are now friends, so am I supposed to cut myself off from them for giving them a biase. I don't think that's fair at all.

[Soliloquy]

I understand the need to take precautions against dirty rushing, but dang! It really sucks not being able to talk to your friends or hang-out during the last free month before school starts. I was totally looking forward to a few more girls nights before recruitment started to relax. Not that we'd talk about recruitment or anything related, but all girls know that being around a group of friends when you're a bundle of nerves is completely therapuetic ;)

Can't imagine what gamma chi's have to go through!

[adrie435]

In my opinion, you have suceeded on the whole point of recruitment... Congratulations, you have made these women your friends!

New women on campus are supposed to have the opportunity to observe Greek Life and get to know women in the organizations. I really do feel like a lot of schools are taking silence a bit far when sorority women are not allowed to even talk to freshmen before recruitment starts (it shouldn't be about their sorority-- that's dirty recruitment-- but get to know them on a personal basis like you would a friend). It just gives sorority women the image of being stuck-up and clique-y when they aren't allowed to have contact. Unless its a school where enough women come in knowing a lot about Greek Life and see past the silence it's going to confuse the heck out of them when no sorority woman will be seen with them and probably turns off a lot of wonderful potential members.

It depends on your campus rules what you really can or can't do..... but if you really aren't allowed to even talk to freshman about non-sorority/Greek Life stuff before recruitment you should really try to get that changed with your Panhellenic! It defeats the whole purpose of recruitment!!!

[Faith4Keep]

In continuation of the whining....

I am SO TIRED of everything that I do or say being considered dirty rushing!! Ahhh it's so frustrating! Especially on these forums or on facebook- it's terrible when a PNM (who is also an acquaintance) writes on my wall and I can't write back. :( Worst of all- my school considers ANY WOMAN who is not affiliated with a GLO a PNM... so people that hate greeks, people that are seniors, people that have NO interest in rushing are considered PNMs. **screams**

The worst part about it for me is when I see 1) girls discussing what chapters they are going to rush... seeing as you HAVE to rush all 10... and 2) girls freaking out because they are a sophomore/junior or they want recruitment advice specific to my U and I can't reply.

I've already gotten in trouble once this summer when I encouraged some girls to not worry and come with an open mind to recruitment... dirty rushing?

I understand what dirty rushing is supposed to prevent, but it's getting to the point that another sorority on our campus may post something on GC like, "Hey guys!! I need advice about rush at our U! Can you help?" and if someone responds with advice, especially if they have their chapter name in their siggy-- *boom* dirty rushing, infractions, etc.

...end rant/whining

[adpiucf]

They asked about the school & sororities in general. Now they are really interesting in rushing in the fall.

One of my friends at a different school said that they would consider that dirty rushing since it would be suspected that we convinced these girls to go through rush.



This is in no way dirty rushing. Dirty rushing is talking up your sorority as the only one that a PNM should consider, promising bids or gift-giving during silence. You did none of these things. You did the Panhellenic thing and talked up sorority life, and now there are more PNMs registered for recruitment. You have benefitted your Greek System.

Your friend has no idea what she is talking about.



I understand the need to take precautions against dirty rushing, but dang! It really sucks not being able to talk to your friends or hang-out during the last free month before school starts. I was totally looking forward to a few more girls nights before recruitment started to relax. Not that we'd talk about recruitment or anything related, but all girls know that being around a group of friends when you're a bundle of nerves is completely therapuetic ;)

Can't imagine what gamma chi's have to go through!



It depends on the school and their silence rules, I'd imagine. At my school, silence was all summer long, but you were allowed to have "non-sorority" contact with PNMs and sorority women as long as no dirty-rush type incidents occurred. And trust me, people were watching to report sororities for infractions, so everyone would mind her p's and q's.

When the clock struck midnight for the start of strict silence, there was zero contact, period, outside of recruitment events. Of course, if you were someone's roommate, some things just can't be avoided.

In continuation of the whining....

I am SO TIRED of everything that I do or say being considered dirty rushing!! Ahhh it's so frustrating! Especially on these forums or on facebook- it's terrible when a PNM (who is also an acquaintance) writes on my wall and I can't write back. :( Worst of all- my school considers ANY WOMAN who is not affiliated with a GLO a PNM... so people that hate greeks, people that are seniors, people that have NO interest in rushing are considered PNMs. **screams**

The worst part about it for me is when I see 1) girls discussing what chapters they are going to rush... seeing as you HAVE to rush all 10... and 2) girls freaking out because they are a sophomore/junior or they want recruitment advice specific to my U and I can't reply.

I've already gotten in trouble once this summer when I encouraged some girls to not worry and come with an open mind to recruitment... dirty rushing?

I understand what dirty rushing is supposed to prevent, but it's getting to the point that another sorority on our campus may post something on GC like, "Hey guys!! I need advice about rush at our U! Can you help?" and if someone responds with advice, especially if they have their chapter name in their siggy-- *boom* dirty rushing, infractions, etc.

...end rant/whining

Faith, UCF is uber strict. I was on campus in the days before wide-spread internet use, but trust me when I say that I encountered similiar issues as an ADPi sister, and later as a Rho Chi... (and I was called a Rho Chi and not a "Rho Gam"). I have some very funny stories about our Pan Exec and summer disaffiliation. Just remember that it's temporary and also remember that PROMOTING SORORITY RECRUITMENT AND THE BENEFITS OF MEMBERSHIP IN "A" SORORITY ARE NOT DIRTY RUSHING, IT IS PUBLIC RELATIONS!!! Solely promoting the benefits of your sorority outside of a recruitment event is dirty, and that is common sense. If anyone calls you an infraction, and you consider it unfair, you should contest it.

[33girl]

These schools are absolutely going overboard with the "dirty rushing" and "silence" crap. And what makes me mad is I think it's just the sororities trying to get each other in trouble. Damn, get a life. Do you really have nothing better to do than troll facebook/myspace/GC and look for infractions? Maybe you should concentrate on trying to improve your own chapter.

[dgdramadawg]

When I was in undergrad, I worked at a bookstore on campus where a lot of girls came for orientation. Pretty much every girl who worked there was Greek and supervisors were also Greek. They always reminded us that we could wear t-shirts with our letters on them, we could ask if girls/guys were rushing (and of course follow it up with "and you'll need these soffees for a relaxing night after round one!"), and we could encourage them to rush, but we could not go any further than that. It was almost like we had a mini-Panhellenic there, encouraging everyone to go Greek!

Of course, when one of our own (the one non-Greek girl) decided to rush, it suddenly became a lot harder because we HAD to see her and talk to her every day without going beyond the above. It was also tough for her to understand why we couldn't talk about certain things. But in the end, I think it helped her make the best choice for her... which was a completely different house from the rest of us!

I do think some campuses go a little overboard in trying to catch each other, but the "no dirty rush" rule works so well when, as in the case above, everyone sticks to it. I mean, I could have pushed and pushed her to go DG, but she wouldn't have found her true home there.

[Stef the Pef]

I hate dirty rushing. I heard MANY times girls drop out because XYZ promised them they'd be in their sorority and they got cut by them after Round 2. My favorite was hearing girls come back later and tell us, "I really liked your chapter and would've joined but ABC (the group they joined) told me you guys were getting kicked off campus." :mad:

So this is my question--how can a chapter combat this kind of crap? Honestly, the dinners, signs, and everything else seem pretty "clean" compared to the smear campaign some chapters wage against others. So what do the other chapters do, then?

[Drolefille]

These schools are absolutely going overboard with the "dirty rushing" and "silence" crap. And what makes me mad is I think it's just the sororities trying to get each other in trouble. Damn, get a life. Do you really have nothing better to do than troll facebook/myspace/GC and look for infractions? Maybe you should concentrate on trying to improve your own chapter.
My senior semester they changed the rules to cut back our silence a LOT. It was wonderful and we loved it. AND there wasn't an increase in the dirty rushing because of it. (That still happened by a few specific chapters/members, but it didn't change)

[Faith4Keep]

Just remember that it's temporary and also remember that PROMOTING SORORITY RECRUITMENT AND THE BENEFITS OF MEMBERSHIP IN "A" SORORITY ARE NOT DIRTY RUSHING, IT IS PUBLIC RELATIONS!!!

Well... part of the dirty rushing rule is that we can't communicate with any PNMs with the exception of brief salutations. Here's an excerpt from one of the e-mails our VP Membership/Recruitment sent to us:


IMPORTANT !!
As a reminder, disaffilation (June 25-Bid Day) means that:

1. From the start of Summer B onward, communication between any member or alumna of a sorority and any PNM (any female student at UCF) must be limited to brief normal greetings. Please be careful of this, especially if you are friends with any PNMs! We get fined $100 for each time someone is caught associating with PNMs.

2. Girls who are rho gammas, recruitment exec, or pan exec and are disaffiliated from our chapter cannot be seen with members wearing letters or in cars with letters, or at any event where their affiliation could become known.

If you have any questions about Panhellenic rules or infractions, please contact me. :)

[adpiucf]

Yeah, but people do it anyway. Panhellenic isn't in your apartment with you 24/7, and you can't be completely anti-social if your non-sorority random roommate has friends over.
Just don't go out of your way to break the rules, but it's ok to be a nice person. UCF turns into the Rush Gestapo at this time of year, and I understand your feelings.

Also, Recruitment Counselors love receiving "We Miss You" cards and gifts during recruitment week. Don't forget about them!!!!!

[VandalSquirrel]

Well... part of the dirty rushing rule is that we can't communicate with any PNMs with the exception of brief salutations. Here's an excerpt from one of the e-mails our VP Membership/Recruitment sent to us:


IMPORTANT !!
As a reminder, disaffilation (June 25-Bid Day) means that:

1. From the start of Summer B onward, communication between any member or alumna of a sorority and any PNM (any female student at UCF) must be limited to brief normal greetings. Please be careful of this, especially if you are friends with any PNMs! We get fined $100 for each time someone is caught associating with PNMs.

2. Girls who are rho gammas, recruitment exec, or pan exec and are disaffiliated from our chapter cannot be seen with members wearing letters or in cars with letters, or at any event where their affiliation could become known.

If you have any questions about Panhellenic rules or infractions, please contact me. :)

I find it interesting they include alumnae, how can they possibly control and police people who are not their students.

[adpiucf]

They can't fine chapter for something an alum has done. That's an empty threat. But there are a good number of women who go alumna early (they find a loophole or end up taking longer than 4 years to graduate) or stay at UCF to do a master's program, so they're still up in everybody's business. It's a way for them to scare off those recent alums from causing trouble.

I think recent alums are the worst thing about sorority recruitment. They still think of it as "my chapter" and can't let go that they don't have any authority or say in what happens in the chapter anymore. And they involve themselves or create chapter drama because the sorority is still the most important thing in their lives.

I think the best thing you can do for a graduating senior is to invite her to an alumna event and sit her down for a firm yet gentle speech that communicates, "Your work has been appreciated, but your work here is done. Let's talk about your future as an alumna of XYZ..."

[TSteven]

It seems like most of the "dirty rushing" incidents being discussed has to do with current collegiate members talking to PNMs *at their school*.

Is it "dirty rushing" to promote one's sorority (for lack of a better phrase) at a national level? For example, say Molly Member is an ABC at a Midwestern university . Molly's friend will be attending a Southern college where there is also an ABC chapter. Molly, along with her chapter sisters, have promoted ABC to Molly's friend - both directly and indirectly - over the year(s).

[AlphaFrog]

It seems like most of the "dirty rushing" incidents being discussed has to do with current collegiate members talking to PNMs *at their school*.

Is it "dirty rushing" to promote one's sorority (for lack of a better phrase) at a national level? For example, say Molly Member is an ABC at a Midwestern university . Molly's friend will be attending a Southern college where there is also an ABC chapter. Molly, along with her chapter sisters, have promoted ABC to Molly's friend - both directly and indirectly - over the year(s).

You cannot get a rush infraction for talking to a PNM from a different school.

[Faith4Keep]

I know nothing official, but my initial response would be that it depends on what year the PNM is. If the PNM is a sophomore or higher, doing deferred recruitment... i.e., already enrolled at a different school, then no I don't think promoting your chapter would be considered dirty rushing. However, if the PNM is a freshman and not technically enrolled in any school yet... then in might be considered dirty rushing.

Please don't let this into any sorority girl's head though- we already have enough trouble at my U with agents :( We don't need nearby schools/chapters teaming up and "not-dirty-rushing" each other's PNMs.

[NutBrnHair]

You cannot get a rush infraction for talking to a PNM from a different school.
Really?

[AlphaFrog]

Really?

How would they punish you? They can't hold your chapter at that school liable. That would be ridiculous. And the PHC on your campus isn't going to care.

ETA: It's kind of futile anyway. Your chapter may be absolutely nothing like the chapter on the other campus, and being that you have no power over the other chapter's MS, it wouldn't make any difference. You could talk up XYZ because your chapter is struggling, and the chapter that PNM meets is the top chapter and she doesn't even have a chance.

[NutBrnHair]

Oh, I agree it could not be enforced, but you can get an "infraction" for just about anything! I'm sure it's happened somewhere, sometime!

It's just like a lawsuit can be filed for any ol thing, but WINNING a case is another thing.

[TSteven]

How would they punish you? They can't hold your chapter at that school liable. That would be ridiculous. And the PHC on your campus isn't going to care.

ETA: It's kind of futile anyway. Your chapter may be absolutely nothing like the chapter on the other campus, and being that you have no power over the other chapter's MS, it wouldn't make any difference. You could talk up XYZ because your chapter is struggling, and the chapter that PNM meets is the top chapter and she doesn't even have a chance.

What if everything Molly said to her friend would be a rush infraction if she was on that campus. Is she protected simply because she is an ABC at a different college?

And for sake of discussion, change the Midwest/Southern scenario to chapters within a very small radius (less than 50 miles). As such, students at each college have a good idea what it going on at the other college.

[cuteASAbug]

If there was a way to monitor recruitment infractions between two or more campuses, then we wouldn't be able to use GC before and during recruitment season.

[AlphaFrog]

What if everything Molly said to her friend would be a rush infraction if she was on that campus. Is she protected simply because she is an ABC at a different college?

And for sake of discussion, change the Midwest/Southern scenario to chapters within a very small radius (less than 50 miles). As such, students at each college have a good idea what it going on at the other college.

Again, how would they punish the offender? It's not fair to take it out on the other chapter, and it has no direct affect on the person who's gabbing's rush.

[FaithHopeLove]

I am young (just going to be a freshman), so maybe having not been Gree yet, I am wrong, but the "dirty rush" regulations seem overbearing.

I think the movements towards no frills rush and all of that jazz almost seem to just be less fun. I know all panhel. wants all sororities to have a fair playing field to get members so they want recruitment to be as fair and level as possible where sororities can't win members simply through a fancy rush or by sweet talking. However, I feel like it gets to the point where it is stifling.

I think that having a silence during rush week makes sense, but to start it a month before is rediculous. If a PMN has friends in XYZ, it will influence their decision to some extent regardless of whether or not that friend was allowed to talk to them troughout July.

I understand also why members cannot promise invitations/ bids as - once number allotments whittles down the list - they may have lied to the PNM. However, I think it is crazy that members have to think twice about whether or not they can say something like "Hope to see you tomorrow." That is being friendly and kid to the rushee.

I guess I just think that when I am (hopefully) a sister, it will seem rediculous how fine the line is between a friendly and dirty rush

[TSteven]

Again, how would they punish the offender? It's not fair to take it out on the other chapter, and it has no direct affect on the person who's gabbing's rush.

I wouldn't. Then again, I don't see a need for "enforced silence" outside of the specific (formal) recruitment week.

[adpiucf]

I think the rules seem especially harsh to discourage the idea of dirty rushing. People still talk to their friends, etc.-- they just are discreet and are sensitive about discussing their sororities.

A campus Panhellenic can not punish someone from another school or an alum. They can't fine a chapter for an offense committed by someone who is not a member of their chapter. NPC as a whole, however, says that during Recruitment Week, sorority members must refrain from contact with PNM's-- this includes all members of the sorority at all chapters, and all members from collegiate to alumnae status. That is also unrealistic-- you are going to call your legacy sister or your best friend who just so happens to be an XYZ at College Down-The-Road to talk, speak to your boss who is an alumna of ABC when you show up for work, etc. You can't have complete and total silence because you can't enforce what is not on your campus. But you can be discreet and you can do your best to follow the rules and not push a PNM toward your sorority when you know that to be dirty rushing.

I think the NPC concept of silence is as much about being ethical as it is about being realistic. I support the idea of silence and the enforcement of it on a college campus. This doesn't mean that Suzy Sigma at College-Down-The-Street or your Grandmother from ABC Sorority should dirty rush you, but they should be respectful of letting the PNM make her own choices.

But the Campus Panhellenic can put the fear of God into you. Most people will listen. Some won't. So there will be some dirty rushing, but it won't be done with the knowledge or sanction of that chapter or its recruitment committee. Most importantly, it won't be done on a wide scale.

It may seem silly to not be able to hug someone, say "See you tomorrow," etc. Ridiculous that your chapter will be fined if someone leaves the house with a paper cocktail napkin because it is construed as a "favor." But there's a larger reason and a backstory to why these seemingly idiotic standards are in place. So just accept it and move on. You know the saying that "it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye?" That's exactly why you can't say, "See you tomorrow." Because someone took them literally and took action when they didn't get that invite back. So instead of "See you tomorrow," you are kind and nice and say other more innocous farewells, "Have a great day!" "It was so nice meeting you!" "Bye!"

As for no-frills rush, if you think you are missing out, think again. Recruitment week is a time for you to interview and be interviewed by prospective sisters. You're not here to be entertained with a mini-Broadway musical and to eat gourmet cheesecake. There will be plenty of time for that later. Conversation-based recruitment doesn't just level the playing field, it helps members from every chapter focus on what is important: people.

If sororities can cut out the frills, they can cut out a lot of time and money spent on things that have no bearing on the final result: people. You can dance, sing, cheer, chant and eat all the cheesecake you want on Bid Day and forevermore once your new members come running up to the chapter where they belong.

[33girl]

No-frills rush and silence rules are two totally different things. One really doesn't affect the other. There are campuses with ultra strict silence rules that are still spending tens of thousands of dollars on rush week.

Just so there's no confusion there :)

[kathykd2005]

I guess I just think that when I am (hopefully) a sister, it will seem rediculous how fine the line is between a friendly and dirty rush

I think when (or if) you become a sister, you will feel differently about the situation. Having been in situations where other chapters were "dirty rushing," I know that it can be extremely disheartening when you have put a lot into recruitment. That is why the regulations are there. Not to be mean, but it is somewhat difficult to understand unless you have been a part of recruitment, on BOTH sides.

[UGAalum94]

Okay, I am obviously not going to be dirty rushing anyone, but I frequently spend time in the summer talking up Greek life to girls who I think would be great members but think recruitment is only for Barbies.

And the idea that someone would have a policy that just generally defined that alums can't talk to PNM rivals the policy against certain types of drinking glasses for "referencing alcohol" for dumbest recruitment policy ever.

[dgdramadawg]

And the idea that someone would have a policy that just generally defined that alums can't talk to PNM rivals the policy against certain types of drinking glasses for "referencing alcohol" for dumbest recruitment policy ever.

I agree with you on this one. I've even heard that on some campuses chapters are penalized if PNMs mention speaking to Greek family members and family friends! For instance, if Suzie's mom's best friend is an XYZ and she is overheard by her Pi Chi while telling another PNM that she talked to that XYZ alum about her party schedule, the Pi Chi would then be bound by the strict rule to turn in XYZ for a recruitment violation.

[UGAalum94]

I agree with you on this one. I've even heard that on some campuses chapters are penalized if PNMs mention speaking to Greek family members and family friends! For instance, if Suzie's mom's best friend is an XYZ and she is overheard by her Pi Chi while telling another PNM that she talked to that XYZ alum about her party schedule, the Pi Chi would then be bound by the strict rule to turn in XYZ for a recruitment violation.

That's just insane.

I don't think that parents and adults should micro-manage a PMNs recruitment or anything, but if it's PNM initiated contact with someone that she knew before who is not a student at the university at the time, I think it's really unlikely to be dirty rushing and it's foolish of the college to try to regulate it.

I think it's great that recruitment is a scheduled and limited series of events and contacts between active sorority women and PNM during the rush process. But get into regulating contacts beyond that seems goofy.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

On our campus we recently changed the rules because it basically consisted of almost three months of "let's avoid all rho gammas and pi chis".

Now we have something called Positive Panhellenic Contact. We talk, we laugh, in and out of our letters on campus, but we do not discuss recruitment/PNMs/anything negative or rude, etc.

We don't go out (off campus) together with letters or whatever but we can go out until the Rho Gammas receive their list of women and after that point it's strict silence. You still can't say "See you tomorrow!" to a PNM after a party or ask where she's attending that night.

I pretty much hated the rules and did my own version of Positive Pan. Contact because PNMs were getting creeped out. We looked like a bunch of frigid bitches that hated each other all summer before. You'd see people running past their Rho Gammas with eyes averted because they were afraid to even look at each other. (Can you make it more obvious? :rolleyes:). I have no problem walking, hugging/kissing/greeting any sorority woman I know because not only are they my constituents, they are my friends. And if some PNM decides that she's certain I'm an XYZ or whatever because she saw me talking to one and then that's what she wants to be, then so be it~hope she has fun on bid day!

[Zillini]

Every Recruitment rule was put in place for valid reasons. 1) To protect a pnm from unfairly and insincerely getting her hopes up only to be disappointed if a bid from ABC doesn't come. 2) To insure that the recruitment process is fair to all Chapters participating. The problem is that it seems like some campuses have gone overboard in enforcing a few of these. I'm sure we've all heard stories of rule enforcement gone amok, getting fined for things that are in reality insignificant and practically uncontrolable.

My personal pet peeve is the Recruitment Rule where you get fined if a pnm leaves the house with a "favor" which has now been interpreted to include a napkin or cup or even a kleenex. I have to wonder if some pnm would seriously keep or cut a house because she left with a used kleenex in her hand? Heck, I doubt even a napkin embossed with the Chapter's name would hold that much sway over a pnm. :rolleyes:

Oops, sorry. /tangent

[AZ-AlphaXi]

My personal pet peeve is the Recruitment Rule where you get fined if a pnm leaves the house with a "favor" which has now been interpreted to include a napkin or cup or even a kleenex. I have to wonder if some pnm would seriously keep or cut a house because she left with a used kleenex in her hand? Heck, I doubt even a napkin embossed with the Chapter's name would hold that much sway over a pnm. :rolleyes:

Oops, sorry. /tangent

I'm with you ... somethings are just taken to the extreem of un-common sense.

and then there's the story of the chapter that got fined because PNMs left the house with glitter stuck to their shoes. :)

[luv n tpa]

Every Recruitment rule was put in place for valid reasons. 1) To protect a pnm from unfairly and insincerely getting her hopes up only to be disappointed if a bid from ABC doesn't come. 2) To insure that the recruitment process is fair to all Chapters participating. The problem is that it seems like some campuses have gone overboard in enforcing a few of these. I'm sure we've all heard stories of rule enforcement gone amok, getting fined for things that are in reality insignificant and practically uncontrolable.

My personal pet peeve is the Recruitment Rule where you get fined if a pnm leaves the house with a "favor" which has now been interpreted to include a napkin or cup or even a kleenex. I have to wonder if some pnm would seriously keep or cut a house because she left with a used kleenex in her hand? Heck, I doubt even a napkin embossed with the Chapter's name would hold that much sway over a pnm. :rolleyes:

Oops, sorry. /tangent

Slightly OT, I was dirty rushed and had absolutely no idea that going to a party a week before recruitment was not allowed.

Back to what you were saying, we're very mindful of the girls leaving the rush room. We did a question/answer round with different questions relating to what color Starburst the PNMs had. We made sure to collect all of the wrappers as we talked to them and placed girls at the door to make sure no one was walking out with anything.

Another sorority on campus gave out information packets; they claimed they had permission, staged an uproar at Panhel that they were being treated unfairly and that they got permission, and the Greek director said they absolutely did not. Their punishment? Picking rooms last for recruitment events (we don't have houses). Whoopdidoo.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Another sorority on campus gave out information packets; they claimed they had permission, staged an uproar at Panhel that they were being treated unfairly and that they got permission, and the Greek director said they absolutely did not. Their punishment? Picking rooms last for recruitment events (we don't have houses). Whoopdidoo.

Yes, on most campuses, the CPH has zero teeth, so there is really no incentive not to dirty rush.

[UGAalum94]

I have mixed feelings about most of the rules.
I don't want to see girls be promised bid that they don't receive and I don't want to see groups undermine other groups by suggesting that PNMs not rush them.

But on the other hand, the IFC groups seem to get by with a pretty much free for all, and it seems like there'd be a happy medium.

I think every group should give out an information package for the PNM to take with them. Maybe they could submit them to CPC and CPC could even make the copies to make sure people didn't change them. The info could have the usual trivia about the orgs, and a breakdown of very realistic financial information that the girls could look at really carefully later and tell their parents about without having to be worried about what the group would think.

It's hard to think of info. packets as being a bad thing if everyone did them.

To me the only thing wrong with favors was that the groups competed and got excessive. There's no reason to ban girls taking a napkins or even plastic cups out of parties.

A campus culture that involves reporting groups for PNM taking napkins, talking to family friend during rush, or using the wrong shaped beverage glass, isn't healthy or productive, and if that's what recruitment rules with even the best of intentions yield, we need re-think it all.

[KSUViolet06]

...and a breakdown of very realistic financial information that the girls could look at really carefully later and tell their parents about without having to be worried about what the group would think.



We do this on my campus. On the 2nd day of recruitment (philanthropy day) every sorority hands out a pamphlet to each PNM detailing all of their financial obligations (the only item from recruitment that they're allowed to take with them). Panhellenic requires that every pamphlet include the same info including:

*NM fees
*Initiation and badge fees
*Dues (local and national)
*parlor fees
*house living/meal plan cost (and live-in requirements)
*whether socials, t shirts and favors are included in dues
*whether the chapter asseses fines (for missed events, etc) and how much

Sure, it can be daunting for a PNM to see all of these facts and figures, but it makes them more informed. They can actually sit down and consider whether sorority membership is something they can realistically afford. There's alot less "sticker shock" involved because she is already aware of the costs.

[speedsters]

recruitment at my school is super relaxed and with a defered recruitment and there are only 3 sororities with about 45 girls in the fall in 60-65 after recruitment and on each sororities informal party we give out an info packet for all pnm's.

it contains all the basic info on us and then i loved this part (each sorority does it differently though) info about each sister, my sorority did each sister had a half page with a few photos and some funny questions along with the basic ones. it was great to look through and see all the girls you've seen around campus and didn't know and find out more about them and who they are.

[Zillini]

I'm with you ... somethings are just taken to the extreem of un-common sense.

and then there's the story of the chapter that got fined because PNMs left the house with glitter stuck to their shoes. :)
I remember reading about the glitter! That has to be one of the craziest Rule interpretations I've ever heard.

Here's another one. Actives must stay in their houses while greeting or saying goodbye to the pnm's. That's pretty logical in theory, right? Well it's been interpreted that "outisde" means the plane of the door frame. So if a hand waving good-bye crosses the door frame you get a fine.

[AGDee]

Hearing all of that kind of stuff makes me want to get involved in NPC in some way. So, if a PNM can't have any contact with an alumna all summer, how do they get recs????

[Stef the Pef]

I have mixed feelings about most of the rules.
I don't want to see girls be promised bid that they don't receive and I don't want to see groups undermine other groups by suggesting that PNMs not rush them.

But on the other hand, the IFC groups seem to get by with a pretty much free for all, and it seems like there'd be a happy medium.

I think every group should give out an information package for the PNM to take with them. Maybe they could submit them to CPC and CPC could even make the copies to make sure people didn't change them. The info could have the usual trivia about the orgs, and a breakdown of very realistic financial information that the girls could look at really carefully later and tell their parents about without having to be worried about what the group would think.

It's hard to think of info. packets as being a bad thing if everyone did them.

To me the only thing wrong with favors was that the groups competed and got excessive. There's no reason to ban girls taking a napkins or even plastic cups out of parties.

A campus culture that involves reporting groups for PNM taking napkins, talking to family friend during rush, or using the wrong shaped beverage glass, isn't healthy or productive, and if that's what recruitment rules with even the best of intentions yield, we need re-think it all.
Well said, although a lot of campuses do info booklets that get handed out at registration or over the summer or something.

Baylor's get handed out at registration, I think. Either then or in the fall informational session, but I know it's early. There's pages about each sorority, costs for each, recruitment regulations, and a little bit of everything. I really like the one big book because there's a lot of emphasis on why going Panhellenic as a whole is a good idea in there as well.

[ashleythetao199]

Okay, so the thing is if it is during formal, there should be no contact with pnms at all outside of recruitment events. However, many organizations do it if they can keep it under the radar. You are not responsible for this decision, the chapter is. So I wouldn't worry about it too much because it's the chapter who will get in trouble if caught. However, if it bothers you that they are being unfair then go with your gut. On another note though... if it is not during formal, taking girls to dinner or having lunch together may be considered a COR for that chapter and there is nothing wrong with that as long as they aren't bid promising or buying your dinner. I mean if it is dinner in the dining hall, that is way different than to a 5 star restaurant.

[ΞΤtexas]

at my school, we have all local sororities and deferred rush. Therefore, there are no rules on contacting pnms and the term "dirty rush" doesn't even exist because it's pretty much required.

[fall07angel]

just a question if this would be considered bad to do.

if you met a girl over the summer at a party, talked to her a lot not about rush but just normal stuff but new she was going through recruitment and added her on facebook. is that ok? i get so confused on whats considered right and wrong?!

[33girl]

Check with your sorority's exec board or Panhel representative. Some schools have passed really strict rules regarding myspace & facebook and it's better to be safe than sorry.

[fantASTic]

So.. our school calls the restrictions placed on actives before FR "normal social contact." Am I the ONLY one who finds this title ridiculous?? I'm sorry, but not being allowed to study with 'potentials' is NOT normal social contact. Having to refuse a Facebook request (which, for those of you who haven't hopped on that bandwagon, is akin to slapping someone in the face almost) is not normal social contact.

I wish they would just be honest and call it "acting like a stereotypical stuck up sorority girl that won't talk to you" conduct.

[alphagamgirl06]

I honestly think not adding a pnm as a facebook is stupid. I understand that the rule is there to try to stop dirty rushing, but the truth is it really doesn't. People who are going to dirty rush are going to do it anyway. There are too many ways on facebook to talk to someone with out being there friend that there really isn't a need for the friend on facebook rule. I doubt someone who is bold enough to dirty rush is going to be bold(stupid) enough to do it out in the open and get caught.

[33girl]

So.. our school calls the restrictions placed on actives before FR "normal social contact." Am I the ONLY one who finds this title ridiculous?? I'm sorry, but not being allowed to study with 'potentials' is NOT normal social contact. Having to refuse a Facebook request (which, for those of you who haven't hopped on that bandwagon, is akin to slapping someone in the face almost) is not normal social contact.

I wish they would just be honest and call it "acting like a stereotypical stuck up sorority girl that won't talk to you" conduct.

This is why deferred rush gets a bad rap.

I would tell the Panhel that denying these things goes against one of the major tenets of deferred (i.e. PNMs get to know sorority members outside of the structured rush environment) and try to get them changed.

[fantASTic]

This is why deferred rush gets a bad rap.

I would tell the Panhel that denying these things goes against one of the major tenets of deferred (i.e. PNMs get to know sorority members outside of the structured rush environment) and try to get them changed.

We don't have deferred. We do, however, have recruitment during the middle of first semester. So there's still several weeks where you cannot even ride in a car with a PNM...even if that 'potential' is graduating that same semester.

[ASTalumna06]

I find all of this very interesting coming from a chapter that has 3 sororities and COB all year long. There are definitely positives and negatives to all of these rules.

In some respects, we had similar rules. PNMs are not allowed to leave a recruitment event with "gifts", and we actually can't give gifts on bid day either, because PNMs still have the option at that point of not signing it, and to give them a gift would be convincing them to do so. We also can't bid promise or anything of that nature. But we can talk to/go out with any PNM at any time... as long as we're not paying for them.

It's interesting to see that even at larger campuses with chapters at 50+ members, equality for each chapter is still maintained. On my campus, the closest thing we ever had to "unity" among chapters during recruitment is what we call a "kick-off" recruitment party at the beginning of each semester, which I actually helped to create when I was Panhel President. Basically, it's like a formal recruitment night where PNMs are required to visit all 3 chapters for 30 to 45 minutes at a time in order for the PNMs to experience each chapter. In some instances, it helps girls to figure out where they really want to be. In other cases, girls already know where they want to be, and they go to the kick-off party because a certain chapter encourages them to go.

But it's competitive for us because while one chapter might get 10 girls in one semester, another chapter will get 3.

And to be honest, my chapter is the only one that has always followed the rules and not bid promised or things like that. One of the chapters actually got caught doing this a couple years ago and was penalized for it.

We're usually the chapter to get the 3 girls while the other chapter gets 10. But I'd much rather have 3 quality girls that we struggled to get than not follow rules and bid everyone we meet.

It's fascinating to see how many similarities and differences there are between campuses.