Getting a Bid from Someone You Didn't Pref

[carnation]

We talked about this briefly here quite awhile back but never did much with it...

More and more, I hear from girls who went to, say, AB and CD for prefs. Nobody called them to see if they would accept a bid from someone they didn't pref nor did they get a call from Panhellenic telling them that they didn't match. Then they opened their envelopes not to find a bid from AB or CD but one from from Cruddy Phi Cruddy, whom they'd cut on the first day. A week ago.

I've already heard it three times this year. How can a Panhellenic get away with that? Can you imagine the shock? I asked one girl who told me this had happened to 2 of her suitemates what the girls did and she replied that they didn't even go down to accept or decline the bids, they just drove home.:(

Have any of you heard of this? Do you think that it's something that some Panhellenics do to attempt to help smaller groups?

[texas*princess]

Wow.

That's crazy.

If they didn't get a bid from the two groups they preffed, and declined the bid from the random group that they had already cut/got cut from, would that forbid them from trying COR for the whole year until FR started up again?

That's a bummer :(

Is that even "legal" for the Panhellenic to do that if they technically did not match? Why couldn't they just try to see if she would accept a snap bid from another group?

I have a ton of questions!!

[carnation]

I"m full of questions too and it has happened to girls we know of on least 3 campuses. What are they thinking--that the girls would be so thrilled just to get a bid, any bid, that they would happily run to the new group, no questions asked?

Or, as a Sig Ep here asked, "At the schools where this happened, was the Panhellenic president a member of the group they got the bids from?" :rolleyes: LOL.

[violetpretty]

One would think that the girls would get a call saying that they didn't match with either house, thus making them eligible for COR. Sure, they might think about a snap bid, but if you don't get that "you didn't match" phonecall, they're probably stoked and pumped for a bid from AB or CD. Plus, that would just be totally unfair if the forced matching actually bound these girls for a calendar year.

[TigerOwl]

I"m full of questions too and it has happened to girls we know of on least 3 campuses. What are they thinking--that the girls would be so thrilled just to get a bid, any bid, that they would happily run to the new group, no questions asked?

Or, as a Sig Ep here asked, "At the schools where this happened, was the Panhellenic president a member of the group they got the bids from?" :rolleyes: LOL.

Carnation,
If I knew the 3 campuses, I would be on the phone tomorrow with their Panhellenic Advisor to specifically ask that question. But that's just me! I have never, ever heard of that happening. These groups must have had their snap bids ready going into pref!

[honeychile]

Am I the only one who's dying to see a "Cruddy Phi Cruddy" t-shirt now? ;)

[TigerOwl]

Am I the only one who's dying to see a "Cruddy Phi Cruddy" t-shirt now? ;)

No you are NOT the only one---I just couldn't bring myself to retype it!!!

[AchtungBaby80]

I have never heard of this happening, but I can't understand how anyone could get away with doing that! It would be one thing if the girls had put a sorority they didn't pref down on their pref cards, but to just wind up with a bid from some random chapter they cut really early in rush just seems wrong. I don't blame 'em...I probably would've simply driven home, too.

[KSUViolet06]

The only instance I can think of (of getting a bid from somewhere you didn't pref) is if someone is NOT BID BY ANYONE SHE PREFS (rare instance but it happens), but is snap bidded by a group she dropped earlier on that ended up not making quota.

[adpi*violet]

More and more, I hear from girls who went to, say, AB and CD for prefs. Nobody called them to see if they would accept a bid from someone they didn't pref nor did they get a call from Panhellenic telling them that they didn't match. Then they opened their envelopes not to find a bid from AB or CD but one from from Cruddy Phi Cruddy, whom they'd cut on the first day. A week ago.


I believe the university of Texas at Austin is doing something like that this year. It is called the Guranteed Bid System. Now I am certianly not on the up and up regarding it, and when it was explained to me, I was still very confused. It was something about placing all the girls, even without snap bids and it could very well possibly be a bid from a group the PNM did not attend a Preference party for.
Would anyone who knows for sure care to elaborate and explain it better?

[SoCalGirl]

I'd want to know if the girls' Rho Chis were Cruddy Phi Cruddy's who conviently forgot to call the girls before accepting a snap bid on their behalf...

[PeppyGPhiB]

were a PNM and this happened to me, I'd be raising you-know-what. By no means does this seem to be "mutual selection," and any woman going through rush should be able to decline membership to any group. Am I the only one that thinks this is an incredibly clueless policy on the part of panhellenics? It undermines the recruitment process, particularly if a woman ends up committed unknowingly to an organization she may know little about. Was snap bidding not working?

I think it's great that campuses are aiming to be more inclusive, but women (and the sororities) should still be able to decide whether they want to join a specific chapter.

[carnation]

I'm betting it came from a combination of young and inexperienced Panhellenic directors plus some pushy sorority members. Beginning jobs in student life pay abominably so with inexperience,a lot of sketchy stuff flies by and I have seen some :eek: things happen since my 6 oldest girls started college (the first went in 2000). Things that no one challenged, not even local alum clubs or advisors, so nothing was done.

But that's one of the very worst...

[dvs-dz]

OK, I'm confused.

Is this a situation where the PNM did not write Cruddy Phi Cruddy on her bid card? If so, then I would think that the bid offer from CPC would be non-binding as the PNM did not bind herself on the bid card.

I've only known one instance where a PNM was put in a sorority which she didn't pref, but that was by her choice (she was a bit of a ditz).

[FSUZeta]

yes. carnation means that the girls put ONLY the names of the two chapters where they actually attended the pref. parties. then magically, when they opened up their bid envelope, there was cruddy phi cruddy, whom they had dropped early in the recruitment week!!

i tell you what, this political correctness/everyone is even/we are all the same is really starting to get to me!!

[Zillini]

That's appalling! If I became aware of this sort of situation I'd be on the phone with my NPC delegate or Area Advisor ASAP. How utterly devasted those PNMs must have been. Without receiving that dreaded phone call saying they didn't match, they had to have believed they received a bid from one of the places they preffed and assumably loved. They're entitled to that phone call as well as the one offering a snap bid. That's just plain wrong!!!!!

[UCFStefanie]

I can speak from experience.

I ranked a Chapter #1 all week long (Theta) and went to all of their rounds except prefs. I only went to prefs with one group, Chapter AB.

But opened my bid to find my #1 choice (Theta). Believe me I was suprised and estatic. How it happened lord only knows.

After prefs my Rho Gamma had me put down all groups that I would accept a bid from. My rho gamma and the graduate assistant of Greek Life both knew who my #1 choice was. So It could be a possibility that because I ranked all chapters I would accept a bid from that someone accepted a snap on my behalf rather than giving me the call that I had been dropped.

The world will never know. But years later, I am happy as a duck and thankful that things worked out the way they did. It taugh me a lot and I wouldnt chance a thing.

[PenguinTrax]

I've never heard of that at all. Green Book recommendations call for unmatched PNMs to be called and asked if they will accept a bid from another group. If the answer is yes, then their names should be distributed for snap bids.

[tunatartare]

My school is one of those where it's possible to get a bid from someone whom you didn't pref. We don't do any cuts before pref, so even if you have ABC with every fiber of your being and know that you wouldn't want to be an ABC, you still have to go to their rush parties. In order to be eligible for a bid, PNM's have to rank all four sororities. If you only got invited and went to XYZ's pref and loved them, they could be your first choice, then LMN, then OPQ, then finally, ABC. However, if you were on ABC's B list and XYZ, LMN, and OPQ all made quota, it is possible to get a bid from them.

[OleMissGlitter]

I'm pretty sure this happened in 1999 at Ole Miss. I vaguley remember hearing about a few girls who did not even pref a house but they got bids to that house. They were confused and ended up dropping out altogether until Panhellenic fixed the problem. I also think with the new Ranking System Ole Miss uses that it could be possible to get a bid from a house you didn't pref...I think but I could totally be wrong. I know it is possible to attend 1st round of parties and then not attend Skit parties and be invited to Pref parties. That is because of the Regret With Interest system.

[SigK_Bama]

I've kind of been through this, but as an initiate on the other side of rush.

When I was President, we had four girls walk into our suite on bid day who we had cut on the first day. We were all shocked and it was really hard to get over it. We discovered that Panhellenic, at the urging of some random alumnae who had been sent by NHQ to help us with rush, had added those girls to our bid lists because they thought we needed the numbers. None of us in the chapter were told - not me as President and not our VPM. In short, we were pissed. On the other hand, the four girls were thrilled to be in our suite because they had all been dropped during the week. They were expecting not to get bids, but had received calls from the Greek Life office that morning telling them that they did, in fact, get bids.

It was a horrible experience, and after these alums found out how upset we were, they left town that same day and never came back to our chapter again.

[AlphaFrog]

I've kind of been through this, but as an initiate on the other side of rush.

When I was President, we had four girls walk into our suite on bid day who we had cut on the first day. We were all shocked and it was really hard to get over it. We discovered that Panhellenic, at the urging of some random alumnae who had been sent by NHQ to help us with rush, had added those girls to our bid lists because they thought we needed the numbers. None of us in the chapter were told - not me as President and not our VPM. In short, we were pissed. On the other hand, the four girls were thrilled to be in our suite because they had all been dropped during the week. They were expecting not to get bids, but had received calls from the Greek Life office that morning telling them that they did, in fact, get bids.

It was a horrible experience, and after these alums found out how upset we were, they left town that same day and never came back to our chapter again.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[IvySpice]

the four girls were thrilled to be in our suite because they had all been dropped during the week.

Wow. How did this work out in the end? Did the sisters come to accept them, and did they become valuable members of the sorority?

[tunatartare]

Wow. How did this work out in the end? Did the sisters come to accept them, and did they become valuable members of the sorority?
That's what I want to know.

[33girl]

I've kind of been through this, but as an initiate on the other side of rush.

When I was President, we had four girls walk into our suite on bid day who we had cut on the first day. We were all shocked and it was really hard to get over it. We discovered that Panhellenic, at the urging of some random alumnae who had been sent by NHQ to help us with rush, had added those girls to our bid lists because they thought we needed the numbers. None of us in the chapter were told - not me as President and not our VPM. In short, we were pissed. On the other hand, the four girls were thrilled to be in our suite because they had all been dropped during the week. They were expecting not to get bids, but had received calls from the Greek Life office that morning telling them that they did, in fact, get bids.

It was a horrible experience, and after these alums found out how upset we were, they left town that same day and never came back to our chapter again.

This is one of the most hideous things I've ever heard, and I sincerely hope those women are no longer involved with Sigma Kappa on a national level. I also hope that your chapter wasn't stuck with these girls.

[SigK_Bama]

This is one of the most hideous things I've ever heard, and I sincerely hope those women are no longer involved with Sigma Kappa on a national level. I also hope that your chapter wasn't stuck with these girls.


As best I remember, three of the four eventually dropped within the year. One woman was married with two kids, two others were just bad, and the fourth one did actually stay. That particular year was her third rush - one at another school and the second one at my school. She was a sweet girl, but just odd. It took a long time, but most of the chapter came to accept her and like her. The year she pledged, her parents came to visit her and they met me at the suite one day. They said how happy they were that she got into a sorority and thanked us for allowing her to be a part of the chapter. So, it turned out OK.

As for the alums, I never saw them again after that. I don't think any of us truly got the full story as to where they came from or who at NHQ sent them.

[ThetaPrincess24]

As for the alums, I never saw them again after that. I don't think any of us truly got the full story as to where they came from or who at NHQ sent them.


That's crazy!!! YOur chapter at the very minimum deserved an explanation.

[AlphaFrog]

That particular year was her third rush - one at another school and the second one at my school.

Biting my tounge when I SO want to say it.

[ThetaPrincess24]

That particular year was her third rush - one at another school and the second one at my school.


Not to get off topic but, by the time of my last fall semester we had had this one girl come through fall recruitment for her 4th year in a row and had been through spring recruitment 3 times without a bid. Why she had decided to keep going through recruitment no one knows. As sad as it is, it almost became a running joke of her coming through and never getting bid similar to Susan Lucci's past repeated nominations without a win at the Emmy's.

[tunatartare]

xoheatherxo was telling me about a girl at her school who rushed 3 times in a row. She would always drop out of recruitment before prefs because she thought that she wouldn't have enough time to be in a sorority. Then, the next year, she'd show up again, then drop out. Everyone was like "does she really like rushing or something?"

[SigK_Bama]

Biting my tounge when I SO want to say it.

Something about another particular rushee at my school?

[AOIIBrandi]

We had a similar story to SigK_Bama's, 2 girls we cut every round of rush (somehow they kept turning back up at our parties) and put on our B bid list because we didn't have a choice ended up getting bids to our house. We actually tried to give them a chance in the beginning, then once it was determined by most women that it wasn't going to work out we tried to de-pledge them. Long story short they got initiated and we never heard from or about them again - I can't figure out why they would pay all that money if they were never going to show up again after that :confused:

[AlphaFrog]

Something about another particular rushee at my school?

Now, WHAT would give you THAT idea??;) :rolleyes:

[lsu_rosewhite]

So you all have some serial rushees????

[carnation]

I've kind of been through this, but as an initiate on the other side of rush.

When I was President, we had four girls walk into our suite on bid day who we had cut on the first day.

I hear you there! When I was an officer in Omicron Delta Kappa, we extended bids and invited the new folks to their first meeting. Some people we didn't invite showed up and they had invitations! There were people far more qualified who hadn't made it!

Our advisor made us sweep it under the table and take them. A lot of students were very unhappy. We thought that the secretary sent out the extra bids but we never found out why.:(

As to the girls who made Cruddy Phi, my informant said they left--horribly upset--and never rushed again. She knows they were at AB and CD prefs because she was at the same prefs and they were talking there about how irritated they were that CPC kept asking them back, even though they kept cutting them.I don't know if they ever pursued it with Panhellenic or simply faded away, like burned PNMs usually do. :(

That's what seems to happen with burned PNMs, at least the ones I've heard about--PH acts like, "Oh well, it's too late, everyone has their pledge classes and we're so sorry, but....." I wish that NPC would send every local Panhellenic a booklet of possible crazy scenarios and details about how they could solve the problems.

[doubleblue&gold]

I can see how it could happen when the PNM ranks someone they didn't pref-----and I've seen posts from many here talking about doing it---either required or just because they like someone they didn't pref. But if they didn't have them on their bid card, they shouldn't have to accept.

I had a different problem. I went to bid matching one year when we didn't make quota. A PNM that had declined us with interest in an early round, ranked us. Her pref groups did not give her a bid and we didnt have her on our bid list. Because we had a place open and would have offered her a snap bid, we did extend a bid. She accepted and became a great member.

[SoCalGirl]

I can speak from experience.

I ranked a Chapter #1 all week long (Theta) and went to all of their rounds except prefs. I only went to prefs with one group, Chapter AB.

But opened my bid to find my #1 choice (Theta). Believe me I was suprised and estatic. How it happened lord only knows.

After prefs my Rho Gamma had me put down all groups that I would accept a bid from. My rho gamma and the graduate assistant of Greek Life both knew who my #1 choice was. So It could be a possibility that because I ranked all chapters I would accept a bid from that someone accepted a snap on my behalf rather than giving me the call that I had been dropped.

The world will never know. But years later, I am happy as a duck and thankful that things worked out the way they did. It taugh me a lot and I wouldnt chance a thing.

I'm pretty sure one of the more recent Greek Advisors at my school would pull stuff like that, accepting bids on behalf of the PNM. She was always trying to make sure recruitment numbers looked good but I think she went about it all wrong.

[SoCalGirl]

I've kind of been through this, but as an initiate on the other side of rush.

When I was President, we had four girls walk into our suite on bid day who we had cut on the first day. We were all shocked and it was really hard to get over it. We discovered that Panhellenic, at the urging of some random alumnae who had been sent by NHQ to help us with rush, had added those girls to our bid lists because they thought we needed the numbers. None of us in the chapter were told - not me as President and not our VPM. In short, we were pissed. On the other hand, the four girls were thrilled to be in our suite because they had all been dropped during the week. They were expecting not to get bids, but had received calls from the Greek Life office that morning telling them that they did, in fact, get bids.

It was a horrible experience, and after these alums found out how upset we were, they left town that same day and never came back to our chapter again.

Recruitment Supervisor = More Power than GOD! :rolleyes:

[UGAalum94]

Carnation,

Have you spoken to the girls themselves? If in fact they did get bids from groups that they cut, rather than declined with interest, with no invitation or phone call first, it's weird and just plain wrong (especially if they face penalties in COR for not accepting the bid).

On the other hand, sometimes stories get mis-reported as they get second and third hand. Maybe they did get phone calls, but didn't want to admit that they had accepted bid from Cruddy Phi Cruddy when reality set in. (Or maybe they were asked in general if they would accept a bid from someone they didn't pref, but they didn't understand that Cruddy was the group in question.)

If you can find more information, let's look into it. We could get an active or alum at that university to call Greek Life.

It's terrible for Cruddy too. They thought they got some new members when really they didn't. Most groups want people who they think want them. This surprise bid is no good for anyone.

[carnation]

All of these cases I've talked about (this one, similar surprise bid cases, the one with the forced prefs leading to the memberless bid class, the snatched pledge, others) were reported to PH either by me or by other adults as well as the victims. In every case, the victim was brushed off or told she could rush the next year. In the case of the snatched pledge, the affected sorority was brushed off and advised they could just pick up somebody else.

Once pledge classes are formed, it seems that little is done to punish violators; maybe PH is afraid that girls will demand a bid from their group of choice, thus making other groups demand extra members, or take the case to a higher campus court or maybe a real court and embarrass them so they sweep it under the rug. Same goes for cases in which a sorority does something awful to another one during recruitment...about three years ago, one sorority at a nearby school did something planned and horrendous to another one during recruitment. The offending group lost a couple of socials and the victims haven't recovered numberwise to this day.

And don't even get me going about the Greek advisor who felt sorry for a smaller sorority so she put a big group's top 5 from their bid list onto the bid list for a smaller group and vice versa. Boy, were those women (and sororities) surprised when bids came out...and most of the people quit, never to consider Greek life again. I know that our system usually works but there are egregious errors as well. :(

[UGAalum94]

All of those examples are shocking to me. It mainly seems surprising that the people doing all that stuff expect to get away with it AND, even more so, expect that it will "work."

Common sense would tell me that matching a girl to a group she doesn't want will only cause more de-pledging.

I can't say that I think a law suit about rush would be appropriate, but taking these cases to the Greek Life advisors supervisors at the university should happen.

I would have thought that all the computer matching would make all this tampering less likely.

[PenguinTrax]

except there are still alot of campuses that don't use computers for matching. It's still done the oldfashioned way, by hand. That said, the bid lists should never been in anyone's possession except the chapter's advisor attending recruitment. The Greek Life advisor should not even be present during bid matching, or at least be there as a neutral party.

[alum]

One more thing to worry about come January recruitment!

Legacy status can be a good or bad thing depending on the chapter and other sororities on campus;

quota additions seem to favor the "good chapters";

modernized invitation numbers seem to favor the weaker chapters creating an even greater demand for an invite to a top house since supply is down;

and now throwing girls into houses that they don't want at all?

[33girl]

modernized invitation numbers seem to favor the weaker chapters creating an even greater demand for an invite to a top house since supply is down


I don't think it "favors" the weaker chapters - it simply is forcing the rushees and sororities who invite everyone with a uterus to "get real." If the rushees were realistic, they wouldn't keep wanting a chapter that doesn't want them. If the sororities were realistic, they wouldn't keep inviting back girls they don't want just for the sake of insurance. Plus it can't help that sorority (or Greek life overall) when the rushees realize they've been played the whole time - that they weren't really wanted.

[AnchorAlumna]

I would have thought that all the computer matching would make all this tampering less likely.

Computers aren't necessarily perfect...they're only as good as the humans entering the info. Of course, I'm sure a lot of the errors blamed on computers are traceable to someONE instead of someTHING.

[gpb1874]

Ok, just had to comment here on this thread, which is something since I haven't done that in a while.

I have witnessed situations where a pnm doesn't get a bid from one of the chapters listed on her pref card. This is always (at my campus) because the chapters she did list hit quota. Another chapter is still really interested in her and decides it's worth a shot to keep her on their list. After bid matching, she is essentially snap bid by the other chapter. She may have dropped them b/c she didn't like them or b/c she didn't attend their events b/c she had to cut chapters, even if she were interested in them. Since she did not list that chapter on her pref card, it is not a binding bid and she can say no and then go to COB and COR events in the spring. Panehl should call her and tell her what is up. She should not show up to bid day with a bid from a chapter she did not list.

I do have to disagree with the comment that greek advisors should not be present at bid matching. I want to know what is going on with the system that I manage and I'm usually the one mediating the matching (reading the cards and that whole process). I don't understand why the gree or panhel advisor would not be present. I know there are some greek advisors who are a little off kilter, but there's nothing saying that HQ staff or chapter advisors are not the same way. The GA can be the neutral 3rd party that helps to keep everything in balance and to make sure all possibilities to match women are explored and to overcome blocks that may form. As always, there may be exceptions. I can just tell you that anywhere I work as a Greek Advisor, I better not have anyone tell me that I cannot be present during bid matching.

[proudmom]

This did happen to my daughter. She didn't even go to any pref parties so she didn't sign a bid card but she received a bid from a group anyway, which she (I hope politely!) declined.

[adpiucf]

UCFStefanie-- did you rank Theta number one on your bid card, and Chapter AB second, after you attended prefs at Chapter AB? That could account for how you received a bid to Theta. The UCF PX's aren't in the room during bid matching, so there wouldn't have been any way for them to know. Either way, I'm very happy you got your bid and became a part of the UCF Theta sisterhood! :)

[UCFStefanie]

adpiucf You know it is all a blur at the moment to be honest.

I was quite upset that I only went to one pref and I didnt vote when other PNMs voted. I wrote down my rank and gave them to my rho gamma and she input them into the computer for me so that I did not have to wait around an hour and a half while the other PNMs went to a pref.

At one point she told me that if I didnt put group AB first that I would not get a bid so I went back and forth in my head on which group to put first.

I am assuming that I put Theta first thought because group AB is not a group at that typically gets quota

[MBurden]

I've kind of been through this, but as an initiate on the other side of rush.

When I was President, we had four girls walk into our suite on bid day who we had cut on the first day. We were all shocked and it was really hard to get over it. We discovered that Panhellenic, at the urging of some random alumnae who had been sent by NHQ to help us with rush, had added those girls to our bid lists because they thought we needed the numbers. None of us in the chapter were told - not me as President and not our VPM. In short, we were pissed. On the other hand, the four girls were thrilled to be in our suite because they had all been dropped during the week. They were expecting not to get bids, but had received calls from the Greek Life office that morning telling them that they did, in fact, get bids.

It was a horrible experience, and after these alums found out how upset we were, they left town that same day and never came back to our chapter again.

Just out of curiosity, how were these ladies as members?

[carnation]

SigK_Bama addressed that earlier in the thread.

[SigKapSweetie]

I'm very surprised by this. If I'd opened my bid on Bid Day and found a bid from a chapter I'd dropped, I would've been devastated. These girls deserved a phone call at the very least.

SigK_Bama, when I joined our chapter we were one of the smaller houses on campus. I was the recruitment chair my junior year, and we emphasized the same thing we'd been insisting on for years - quality over quantity. It paid off: for the past two years, our chapter has made quota plus with women they truly wanted as sisters. Our recruitment advisors wholeheartedly supported our philosophy. If one of them had tried to pull a stunt like yours did, I don't know what we would've done. Talk about not acting in the best interest of the chapter! You and your sisters should've been given the final choice in the matter, because it's your chapter. I'd be beyond outraged!

[GtownGirl98]

During my time... we had a serial rusher... she would rush every year because TUV would tell her that this would be the year she would get a bid and every year they would find other girls who ranked higher and every year she would go back to the same group... until finally her jr or sr year she got her wish... talk about bid promising... but it was the only group she wanted and would turn down everyone else. I just always felt bad for her.

That is the problem we have with deferred recruitment... the school adm wants the freshman to have a semester without letters (but they have them in the form of dirty rushing) and retention for the school would be higher because they girls would find a home right away.

Also I think that quota additions do only help the "top" groups, unless all the groups are hitting quota. But I also think that if a PNM plays by the rules, then they should get a bid. I do like the release figure system based on previous proformance.

As to the topic at hand...

I have never heard of this and these are all really horrible stories but maybe it is the schools way of modified quota additions... they are just trying to give a bid to all the girls that played by the rules without giving the chapters with quota additional numbers. It isn't right but ... maybe some campuses with only 3 or 4 chapters could use this... especially if they have to drop chapters just because they have to eliminate groups... but the girls really wouldn't care what group they joined, as long as they joined a group... not like the serial bid promised girl.

[Buttonz]

but the girls really wouldn't care what group they joined, as long as they joined a group... not like the serial bid promised girl.


While I agree some girls just want to wear letters no matter the letters, I think mot girls do care about what group they join. If I got a bid from a group that I didn't like at all, why would I go ahead and accept the bid? This would lead to the full number o bids being given out and chapters falling short of quota because of girls not accepting the bid.

[TxGirl]

Back to beginning topic. At The University of Texas they have guaranteed placement. This means that if you maximize your options for each round - including pref where you can go to 3 but are only required to go to 2 - you are guaranteed a bid. This bid will be from one of the groups you attended at pref. What this means is that the groups that make quota (a chapter won't get women through guaranteed placement if they don't make quota) get quota addtion on steriods. It's not limited to 5% per chapter. I don't recall what all the rules to matching the women (smallest chapter and all that). This has been going on at UT for at least 10 years. They took it from another campus.

I've also heard of the other mentioned case where you could get a bid from a group you only saw during open house. A fellow advisor had a daughter that went through recruitment at Texas Christian University (TCU) and they apparently did this. You were guaranteed a bid, but it could be to any chapter on campus, not just the ones you visited on pref.

[Buttonz]

Back to beginning topic. At The University of Texas they have guaranteed placement. This means that if you maximize your options for each round - including pref where you can go to 3 but are only required to go to 2 - you are guaranteed a bid. This bid will be from one of the groups you attended at pref. What this means is that the groups that make quota (a chapter won't get women through guaranteed placement if they don't make quota) get quota addtion on steriods. It's not limited to 5% per chapter. I don't recall what all the rules to matching the women (smallest chapter and all that). This has been going on at UT for at least 10 years. They took it from another campus.
.

I've heard of this before, and I like this way of doing things. And seeing as how the bid comes from a group that the PNM atteneded at pref, I don't see a problem with it. Except for one thing: what if the girl waso nly nvited back to two prefs? Then what happens?

[UGAalum94]

Since the girls only match to someone they preffed, is the reason that groups who don't make quota don't get additions that they've already gone through the bid list and matched everyone they could already?

I don't want to see PNM forced to joined groups they don't want (or face penalties for not accepting a bid to someone they don't want), but it seems to me that quota additions and guaranteed matching should be designed to favor the groups who didn't make quota or who are already the smallest.

If not, aren't the big just going to get bigger and the small smaller?

OR we could have a system that just let everyone issue as many bids as they wanted to. That'd be okay with me too, but seems contrary to the policies and goals of NPC.

This question goes way beyond the scope of anything I'm really entitled to know, but could an official rush advisor anonymously post modified data on a schools rush to basically show how different systems work? Like make up group names and return rates, and walk up through what happens at schools with different systems? I'll post this questions in the quota additions thread too, and if the moderator wants to delete here, I'll understand.

[carnation]

I don't want to see PNM forced to joined groups they don't want (or face penalties for not accepting a bid to someone they don't want), but it seems to me that quota additions and guaranteed matching should be designed to favor the groups who didn't make quota or who are already the smallest.

If not, aren't the big just going to get bigger and the small smaller?

Many, many of the smaller groups on big campuses are enlarging by means of the new release figures.With those, I've seen sororities that were never close to quota just a few years ago hit quota regularly. Since quota additions seem to be done in various ways, I have no clue about that--but for sure, release figures are helping the smaller ones.

[UGAalum94]

It surely would seem to help the small chapters, but the situation that TxGirl described basically cut the non-quota making groups out of the process, I thought.

But I guess if quota additions are only for girls who maximized options, the girls who preffed the smaller chapters would have already matched to them through regular big matching or they wouldn't be eligible for quota additions because they didn't list the smaller group on the bid card.

Do school still give girls the option to "regret with interest" when they've been invited back to more pref parties than the schedule allows them to attend?

Would it be considered bad form or prohibited for groups who were interesed in a girl who declined their pref. party in favor of another "with interest" to put this girl on their bid list? Is this situation partially what happens when girls match where they don't pref?

In that case girls could still create back up options (sort of a way to say, "I'd take snap bids from these other groups" in advance) without being at the mercy of Greek life.

[BamaDad DZ]

At the University of Alabama, my daughter received more invitations back than she could attend at each stage, including six invitations for preference day when she was allowed only three. During each round she was able to decline "with interest" which I assume permitted her to be eligible for re-consideration if things didn't work out with her original selections.

[TxGirl]

I've heard of this before, and I like this way of doing things. And seeing as how the bid comes from a group that the PNM atteneded at pref, I don't see a problem with it. Except for one thing: what if the girl waso nly nvited back to two prefs? Then what happens?


If only invited to two chapters for pref and she goes to those two chapters for pref AND places both of them on her bid card then she is eligible for guaranteed placement. If she only went to one (if that was allowed) or if she only put one on her bid card then she did not maximize b/c she had two options.

[TxGirl]

Since the girls only match to someone they preffed, is the reason that groups who don't make quota don't get additions that they've already gone through the bid list and matched everyone they could already?

I don't want to see PNM forced to joined groups they don't want (or face penalties for not accepting a bid to someone they don't want), but it seems to me that quota additions and guaranteed matching should be designed to favor the groups who didn't make quota or who are already the smallest.

If not, aren't the big just going to get bigger and the small smaller?

OR we could have a system that just let everyone issue as many bids as they wanted to. That'd be okay with me too, but seems contrary to the policies and goals of NPC.

This question goes way beyond the scope of anything I'm really entitled to know, but could an official rush advisor anonymously post modified data on a schools rush to basically show how different systems work? Like make up group names and return rates, and walk up through what happens at schools with different systems? I'll post this questions in the quota additions thread too, and if the moderator wants to delete here, I'll understand.


Guaranteed placement only favors those chapters that make quota, so in some instances it could be a case of the big getting bigger. That's how it was at UT. If there is a smaller group that never makes quota - they will never get guaranteed placement. If there was still someone to guarantee place then the smaller group would have had them put on their bid list already.

It does not force them to join a group they do not want - because they should only put down chapters that they attend that they would accept a bid from. If they would accept from any on their card it wouldn't be an issue. Of course we all know that's a perfect world - not the "rush" world where Suzie Rushee has her heart set on XYZ before recruitment events get started!

Carnation makes a good point as well. The new release figure system is allowing more chapters to make quota - some as she said that haven't been there in years.

I haven't looked at UT's numbers since they implemented the new release figure method (RFM) - but I know that it has helped some chapters on that campus. As with anything - all chapters won't improve (i.e. make quota) overnight. But, it the new RFM at least gives them the chance.

[TxGirl]

Do school still give girls the option to "regret with interest" when they've been invited back to more pref parties than the schedule allows them to attend?

Would it be considered bad form or prohibited for groups who were interesed in a girl who declined their pref. party in favor of another "with interest" to put this girl on their bid list? Is this situation partially what happens when girls match where they don't pref?

In that case girls could still create back up options (sort of a way to say, "I'd take snap bids from these other groups" in advance) without being at the mercy of Greek life.


At some campuses you can still regret with interest. I don't know if this is compatable with the RFM. I do know that reinviting a woman that declined your invite to a prior round (even if she was regret with interest) doesn't really work and that it messes up the statistics used.

[UGAalum94]

At some campuses you can still regret with interest. I don't know if this is compatable with the RFM. I do know that reinviting a woman that declined your invite to a prior round (even if she was regret with interest) doesn't really work and that it messes up the statistics used.

Can you tell me more about this?

Let's imagine a system with first, second, third and prefs. Let's say a PNM receives invites to second round from 10 groups but at her campus, during second round you can only go to eight parties. Let's imagine that she likes almost all the groups, but she has to cut some. Now, imagine that after second round, she's not invited back to the maximum number of parties (let's say four) and she only gets invited back to three. Why would it not work for her to be able to be reinvited by one of the groups that she liked and that liked her if they wanted her to attend? It seems like it would be good all the way around.

I know that there are groups that PNM cut because they know they don't want bids, but if the PNM is still interested once she's cut by other groups and the group is still interested, what's the harm?

I want to stress that I don't think that girls should ever be matched to groups that they haven't indicated they'd take bids from. But why not allow people to keep all their options as long as both parties are interested?

[Tom Earp]

This seems as a problem at some schools?

God, it may be easier to tell them all to forget it?:( Who needs this?:o

If they are not good enough then they are not.

But if they are, well, why put a YOUNG FEMALE through all of the pressure?:(

They can and will be accepted, yes?

[AGDLynn]

I think that if a group has an open space that they can invite and still like
(or haven't found sufficient enough reason to totally cut), why not give her a chance. They might end up liking her more than someone they thought they liked better.;)

Of course, inviting to Pref is an entirely different bowl of cherries.

[TxGirl]

Let's imagine a system with first, second, third and prefs. Let's say a PNM receives invites to second round from 10 groups but at her campus, during second round you can only go to eight parties. Let's imagine that she likes almost all the groups, but she has to cut some. Now, imagine that after second round, she's not invited back to the maximum number of parties (let's say four) and she only gets invited back to three. Why would it not work for her to be able to be reinvited by one of the groups that she liked and that liked her if they wanted her to attend? It seems like it would be good all the way around.

I know that there are groups that PNM cut because they know they don't want bids, but if the PNM is still interested once she's cut by other groups and the group is still interested, what's the harm?

Remember, it's in a perfect world that the women that the chapter reinvites are ones that actually have open spaces. Also, a lot of PNM's put down regret with interest b/c they know (through the recruitment grape vine) that chapters see this and it looks better to regret with interest than to just regret. So, they may not really want to go back to the chapter. Of course then you have to factor in all the upset that they have that they didn't get invited back to enough chapters to go to one of their top choices.

All that being said, what usually happens when chapters reinvited (forget the regret with interest part) is that the majority don't come back because they already have a full event schedule (remember this is an accept/regret campus NOT priority). So they see that ABC reinvited them, but they got invites from enough of the chapters they went to prior round to not HAVE to go to ABC unless they want to. The majority don't pick to go back to ABC. What this does to the RFM is basically screw up the return rates for the round in question. This, in turn, can mess with the number the chapter is allowed to invite back for th next round and messes up the stats for the next year.

Take this scenario:

100 - Number of women in recruitment
80 - Number of women ABC has in their pool (meaning the number that came to their last event)
80 - Number of women ABC can invite to the next round

The chapter is not going to be allowed to invite back any more than is in their pool. So, if they want to reinvite, they are release women that actually attended their last event. Their working against the odds with the reinvites.

So say they do this:

70 - Number of women they invite that attend the last event
10 - Number of women they reinvite (with interest women)

If their historical return (which the RFM Specialist has when giving them the number to reinvite or carry) is 75% then they would have about 53 of the 70 come back. The return for reinvites is going to be much lower than this - say 25% so of the other 10 they might get 3 vs. a possible 8 with their historical figure.

So, yes, they might get a few through reinvites. What this also does is make their return rate look lower. They invited 80 and got 56 but they should have had 61. Remember, that's if they even get any of the reinvites. They could get none. So then it looks like they are doing worse than they actually are.

Priority works this differently. With priority the women rank a first choice cluster (if they can go to 8 then 8 are ranked as #1) and the rest in acutal rank order. They do not rank chapters they did not acutally attend - so reinvites won't work at all and again throw off the number for the RFM Specialist.

Sorry for the reallllly long post, but it's hard to explain any shorter! :)

[SigKapSweetie]

TxGirl - I find that very interesting! UF didn't have regret with interest when I went through, so I've only recently been introduced to the idea, and I'd never really thought about what it would do to return rates. Thanks for sharing. :)

[UGAalum94]

Thanks for that long explanation. I'm sorry I didn't see it before now.

My experience with rush is from before release figures (or at least before there were rewards for actually following them), so I still had in my mind the idea of a group being able to reinvite as many girls as they wanted to. I wasn't really considering the idea that a reinvite replaced an guest who actually attended the previous round.

I was thinking that reinvites might be a way for a chapter with lower return rates to pick back up girls who might be more interested in that particular chapter after being released by their early favorites after second round.

[aggieAXO]

When I went through rush we could only "regret with interest"-which was annoying b/c if you wanted to cut one of the smaller chapters you really couldn't-their names would always show up on your list the next day and again you would have to pick "regret with interest." This did not help out the smaller chapters at all.

[UGAalum94]

When I went through rush we could only "regret with interest"-which was annoying b/c if you wanted to cut one of the smaller chapters you really couldn't-their names would always show up on your list the next day and again you would have to pick "regret with interest." This did not help out the smaller chapters at all.

So you all couldn't cut groups at all? Did you all just rank houses and go back to all of them for the next round?

Or are you saying that if you didn't get the max number of invites back from your top picks, the "regret with interest" houses would show up again to fill in the rest of your parties when you really would have preferred not to go to a party than to go back to them?

Edit: or a third option came to me: you mean it was annoying to put down regret with interest on your rankings each round for the houses you weren't going back to? Simply writing it was annoying?

For the folks who know where they want to go and are actually going to be on the first bid list, I think showing up as guests at other houses and being nice and interested (or seeming to like houses that you want to cut) ultimately helps the PR of the house you end up in. Other girls will kind of say, "ah, Aggie, went AXO; she's a super girl; how awesome for them." And for everybody else, who might be in suspense about where they will end up, it keeps more options open.

But no one should get a bid from a house that they didn't pref and list on the bid card. That goes way beyond keeping options open.

[Drolefille]

Regretting with interest means that you want to go there, but can't fit them in. If you can't actually cut and can only RWI then when you get cut by the larger houses, you'll keep getting invited back to the smaller ones, and then keep RWI-ing them. So annoying on the PNM's side because she keeps going to houses that she isn't so interested in and RWI's them each time. Annoying for the small houses that have full parties but may not take quota because those women all want to go somewhere else.

[UGAalum94]

Well, it seems to me that the small houses are probably better off having full houses for the parties than having empty ones. In my mind, they aren't more likely to make quota with fewer girls at each party; they'd be even less likely to make it. So, it may not be a big hardship for them to have girls who aren't crazy about being there at a few parties.

From the PNM's perspective, you might have to go to a few houses you aren't interested in, but how big a deal is that really? You meet some girls; you dazzle them with your charm; they know your future chapter got a great girl on bid day. At least, that's how it goes at UGA, in my opinion.

Yes, occasionally smaller chapters do believe that some girls who aren't really interested want to join them because the PNMs are such awesome guests and treat each rusher like she is the most interesting and charming person on the planet. But it's usually pretty clear by prefs who you will really see on bid day.

If a PNM's only option in declining is to regret with interest, I can see that you couldn't use it to determine if people were interested. If I'm remembering this correctly, back when I was in school and we were huddled around checking our party lists by firelight in the cave, you could straight up decline/regret, decline with interest, or accept.

When I asked about re-invites, I had in mind a system that allowed a PNM to make a distinction between a group she liked okay but wasn't in her top group for second round and a group she never wanted to see again.

With groups making their big releases maybe between different rounds, I can see that a girl who got invited back almost every place after first, but cut hard after second, might not mind having a full party schedule for third. But I can see from the very detailed answer why that doesn't work out in the long term. (Thanks again, TXgirl!)

[Drolefille]

My school had 5 chapters, none of which I would consider small vs. big though there was a range. PNMs there don't cut, they rank.

From the small chapters perspective it's hard to get a feel for how your return rates are (and how you'll do for quota) if you're getting predominantly PNMs who were dropped by other chapters. I don't know that there's really any way to solve that problem though.

As for the PNM's perspective, that's why it's an annoyance. It's not a big deal, but it's still annoying to list XYZ as a regret, yet still go see them every night.

Ideally, it might make a PNM reconsider the smaller houses, but if they still have their top three, they're probably not looking at their bottom two as viable options.

[33girl]

Well, it seems to me that the small houses are probably better off having full houses for the parties than having empty ones. In my mind, they aren't more likely to make quota with fewer girls at each party; they'd be even less likely to make it. So, it may not be a big hardship for them to have girls who aren't crazy about being there at a few parties.

On one hand, maybe someone will show up who hadn't considered your sorority and be won over. But on the other hand, maybe the majority of the people at the party will be people who'd just as soon be there as have root canal, and aren't shy about showing it. You as a member of that sorority who's already stressed about being smaller, have to keep talking OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN to someone you know doesn't want to be there and doesn't like you. It's very draining for the sorority members. Think about in everyday life how annoying it is to put up w/ someone at your job who you know doesn't like you. Now transfer that to rush which is about 10,000 times more stressful.

And while I think do think it's good to "keep trying," I wouldn't want someone who feels so negatively about my sorority at pref. That's supposed to be a special evening and I'd hate to have a bunch of girls with bad vibes ruining things for the rushees who DO want to be there.

[UGAalum94]

Ideally, it might make a PNM reconsider the smaller houses, but if they still have their top three, they're probably not looking at their bottom two as viable options.

This is true no matter the size of the system, I'm afraid, and it's why it's so hard to have everyone make quota. I think that the release figures, quota additions, and everything else that NPC is doing are wonderful tools to improve the system and are helping a lot. At a few places, results are looking as close to perfect as possible. (I'm thinking Auburn and Alabama, who release data to the public.)

At my school there were 18 groups and the number of parties dropped gradually over four rounds. Girls who were invited back to more than the number of parties could drop groups. I think that the maximum number for second round was 10 or 12. I can imagine that, as far as the PNM was concerned after first round, there might not have been a bid difference between her 12th and 13th house, but the 13th one got dropped.

[Drolefille]

On one hand, maybe someone will show up who hadn't considered your sorority and be won over. But on the other hand, maybe the majority of the people at the party will be people who'd just as soon be there as have root canal, and aren't shy about showing it. You as a member of that sorority who's already stressed about being smaller, have to keep talking OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN to someone you know doesn't want to be there and doesn't like you. It's very draining for the sorority members. Think about in everyday life how annoying it is to put up w/ someone at your job who you know doesn't like you. Now transfer that to rush which is about 10,000 times more stressful.

And while I think do think it's good to "keep trying," I wouldn't want someone who feels so negatively about my sorority at pref. That's supposed to be a special evening and I'd hate to have a bunch of girls with bad vibes ruining things for the rushees who DO want to be there.
I just like pref can be the night that seals the deal, it can also break it. So those PNMs that loved you and have a crappy pref end up looking elsewhere.

[UGAalum94]

On one hand, maybe someone will show up who hadn't considered your sorority and be won over. But on the other hand, maybe the majority of the people at the party will be people who'd just as soon be there as have root canal, and aren't shy about showing it. You as a member of that sorority who's already stressed about being smaller, have to keep talking OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN to someone you know doesn't want to be there and doesn't like you. It's very draining for the sorority members. Think about in everyday life how annoying it is to put up w/ someone at your job who you know doesn't like you. Now transfer that to rush which is about 10,000 times more stressful.

And while I think do think it's good to "keep trying," I wouldn't want someone who feels so negatively about my sorority at pref. That's supposed to be a special evening and I'd hate to have a bunch of girls with bad vibes ruining things for the rushees who DO want to be there.


OH NO, you don't invite jerks to prefs. (I don't think that qualifies as secret membership selection.) Root canal girl would be long gone. I agree that PNMs who project bad attitude are not helpful to anyone during rush.

Maybe it's a southern thing, but that's not how it goes down for most PNMs in the rushes I've heard about. This may be hard to believe, but almost all PNMs behave beautifully at all the parties. That's why it stands out so much when someone doesn't.

Almost every one of the 1200 PNMS has been raised to always be polite. The idea that one would openly seem disinterested in a conversation or openly show that you didn't like someone to her face would be unthinkable. (which is not to say that everyone acts the same way waiting to go into parties or that people aren't catty behind people's backs.) But at parties themselves, everything is super nice.

[aggieAXO]

Regretting with interest means that you want to go there, but can't fit them in. If you can't actually cut and can only RWI then when you get cut by the larger houses, you'll keep getting invited back to the smaller ones, and then keep RWI-ing them. So annoying on the PNM's side because she keeps going to houses that she isn't so interested in and RWI's them each time. Annoying for the small houses that have full parties but may not take quota because those women all want to go somewhere else.

The first 2 days I did not have full parties and could not cut the houses but the rest of week I had full parties and even though I would cut these houses they still showed up on the list the next day (for me again to RWI). I did cut one of the larger houses on campus mid week as well and they did not show up on my list the next day. It made the smaller houses look desperate and did not help with their image.

[aggieAXO]

Well, it seems to me that the small houses are probably better off having full houses for the parties than having empty ones. In my mind, they aren't more likely to make quota with fewer girls at each party; they'd be even less likely to make it. So, it may not be a big hardship for them to have girls who aren't crazy about being there at a few parties.

From the PNM's perspective, you might have to go to a few houses you aren't interested in, but how big a deal is that really? You meet some girls; you dazzle them with your charm; they know your future chapter got a great girl on bid day. At least, that's how it goes at UGA, in my opinion.

Yes, occasionally smaller chapters do believe that some girls who aren't really interested want to join them because the PNMs are such awesome guests and treat each rusher like she is the most interesting and charming person on the planet. But it's usually pretty clear by prefs who you will really see on bid day.

If a PNM's only option in declining is to regret with interest, I can see that you couldn't use it to determine if people were interested. If I'm remembering this correctly, back when I was in school and we were huddled around checking our party lists by firelight in the cave, you could straight up decline/regret, decline with interest, or accept.

When I asked about re-invites, I had in mind a system that allowed a PNM to make a distinction between a group she liked okay but wasn't in her top group for second round and a group she never wanted to see again.

With groups making their big releases maybe between different rounds, I can see that a girl who got invited back almost every place after first, but cut hard after second, might not mind having a full party schedule for third. But I can see from the very detailed answer why that doesn't work out in the long term. (Thanks again, TXgirl!)


Again, I did not go to these houses after the second day because I had full parties but it did not matter-their name showed up every morning on the list regardless.

ETA: I was NEVER rude to the girls in these chapters. One of my best friends was in one of the smaller chapters and I had been over to house many times the previous year (I rushed as a junior.) I knew all the struggles her chapter had been through and I knew that it was not for me. She was a rho chi the year I rushed and every morning she would greet me at the MSC where we got our lists and every morning she watched as I cut her chapter which I know had to make her sad-that is why it was annoying.

[UGAalum94]

That makes sense. I was thinking of campuses that gave PNMs the choice between regret and regret with interest.

You obviously weren't interested. I guess at your campus there's no way for the groups to really tell.

[carnation]

-wondering if anybody else had heard of this happening over the last 2 years-

[AlwaysSAI]

So, this hasn't happened in my chapter because obviously, I'm not NPC, but it kind of happened to my sister. She attended Philanthropy day at AXO and AGD. She shows up at Pref to find that she has been invited to AGD and DZ (who had dropped her the day before). I asked her if she knew if DZ gave her a bid--of course she doesn't know, but she said she didn't even list them on her bid card.

And, I don't know if this all happened in the same year, but there were three girls in her chapter who were not bidded by the chapter, but showed up at bid day. They found out later that their LC bidded them because she wanted them to have the numbers (they were below quota at the time). One of them was a bump on a log for six years (yes, it took her that long to graduate). One went on to hold an EC position and the other has had her badge yanked by their IHQ.

[33girl]

Honestly, who the eff are the consultants who think that does anyone a favor - the sorority or the PNM??

I want to say "if you think she's such a prize, take her back to YOUR chapter."

[carnation]

bumping for 2010, wondering if this is still happening--

[Alumiyum]

Again, I did not go to these houses after the second day because I had full parties but it did not matter-their name showed up every morning on the list regardless.

ETA: I was NEVER rude to the girls in these chapters. One of my best friends was in one of the smaller chapters and I had been over to house many times the previous year (I rushed as a junior.) I knew all the struggles her chapter had been through and I knew that it was not for me. She was a rho chi the year I rushed and every morning she would greet me at the MSC where we got our lists and every morning she watched as I cut her chapter which I know had to make her sad-that is why it was annoying.


This happened to me as a PNM as well. Exact same situation except that I wasn't friends with the RC whose chapter I was cutting, though I did know it was her chapter. It was uncomfortable every time.

[CougarGrad]

It's been a year since I've heard this story, so I'll try to get it right.

I know of a young lady who went through recruitment in fall of 2007. Pref was on the 4th day. She only preffed ABC because all week, she felt like the ladies of ABC were telling her that she was an ABC and was going to get into ABC. She was absolutely certain that she was becoming an ABC.

Morning of Bid Day, she hadn't been called and told that she didn't have a bid, so she joyfully went to get her bid card. The embarrassed Rho Chi took her aside and told her that there had been a snafu and she should have gotten a phone call because ABC did not give her a bid. She cried and cried until the Rho Chi told her that there was another group who had liked her very much and she hadn't disliked- would she accept a bid from them? She wiped her eyes and accepted the bid- which was from XYZ, who she hadn't visited since day 3. She'd liked them well enough but they just hadn't been in her top 2.

This young lady went on to enjoy her experience, living in the house and holding offices for two years. In fall of 2008, her younger (bio) sister joined her as a sister of XYZ.

[AOII Angel]

It's been a year since I've heard this story, so I'll try to get it right.

I know of a young lady who went through recruitment in fall of 2007. Pref was on the 4th day. She only preffed ABC because all week, she felt like the ladies of ABC were telling her that she was an ABC and was going to get into ABC. She was absolutely certain that she was becoming an ABC.

Morning of Bid Day, she hadn't been called and told that she didn't have a bid, so she joyfully went to get her bid card. The embarrassed Rho Chi took her aside and told her that there had been a snafu and she should have gotten a phone call because ABC did not give her a bid. She cried and cried until the Rho Chi told her that there was another group who had liked her very much and she hadn't disliked- would she accept a bid from them? She wiped her eyes and accepted the bid- which was from XYZ, who she hadn't visited since day 3. She'd liked them well enough but they just hadn't been in her top 2.

This young lady went on to enjoy her experience, living in the house and holding offices for two years. In fall of 2008, her younger (bio) sister joined her as a sister of XYZ.
It's not exactly the same thing, but my third little sis had a similar experience. She went to pref at AOII and YZ. She was close friends with lots of YZs and really thought she would get a bid to YZ so she SIP'd YZ. I was her Rho Chi and had to knock on her door to give her the bad news. She was honestly less upset than I was. She'd just made a bad decision to think that she had a guaranteed in into YZ.
Jump to two days later, one of our NMs decided to drop out. She decided that sorority life was "evil" because she was very religious and didn't know that we had parties. :rolleyes: I don't know if she wasn't paying attention during recruitment or what. Anyway, the first person I suggested was this girl. The chapter questioned me, but I assured them she liked us but thought that all her friends were going to get her into the other chapter. They let me offer her a bid, and she accepted it and went on to be a great member.

[IrishLake]

A personal experience... my junior year, we extended a bid to a girl who dropped us after open house and first round. A lot of people loved her (I didn't) because she was an RA in an upperclass dorm (she was a sophomore). She bad mouthed other specific Theta's and I know for a fact she didn't think we were good enough for her (we both had a mutual friend who would not have lied to me). She preffed 2 different groups, and didn't get a bid from either. Sigh... so we gave her a bid. I was shocked that she accepted. She was assigned the alumni relations officer position later on. My senior year, she put together a slideshow for us graduating seniors to be played during our "Senior night." She contacted all of the parents and asked them to write letters to their soon-to-be-alum daughters (to be read out loud) and send in any pictures (childhood, college, etc). Oh, except she forgot to contact my parents. The night of senior night, I sat in my chair and cried my damn eyes out, because there was no letter for me, no pictures of me from my parents in the slideshow (Thankfully I was surrounded by my pledge class sisters, one whom penned a letter to me to be read aloud once she realized what was going on). I'm still a little bitter. That's my only experience with this kind of thing.

[AOpilicious]

Where I was a collegian, "snap" bids were offered to women who had accepted at least one prior invitation and went unmatched during bid matching. But it was done either in person or by phone before bids were distributed.

We had a situation where a PNM released us because her best friend wanted to go XYZ, but then regretted her decision. So she dropped herself out of rush entirely so that she wouldn't be bound by the preference/bid rules.

Just one of those crazy years where our chapter - that never misses quota - missed by one. and freak of nature situation, there were no more girls left on lists to place, so no snap bids available.

So we COB'd her to make quota. It was the craziest thing and at the time totally checked out according to the area NPC adviser, etc. When we called her to offer her the bid - she was crying and we were crying.

She made it back to campus just in time to "run" to the house with all of her pledge class sisters.

Now - another situation entirely - I was sent off to help monitor/manage an alum-less collegiate chapter in another part of the country. The panhellenic office kept deciding who would be on our invitation lists. Right up to preference and our bid lists.

It was so infuriating. We kept releasing certain women, and they kept showing back up on our lists. It didn't matter how angry I got, or who I called, this girl ended up at our house on bid day.

I know it's impossible to do bid matching and invitations by hand at big schools, but it is really the only way to make sure that random invitation screw ups don't happen.

[33girl]

Now - another situation entirely - I was sent off to help monitor/manage an alum-less collegiate chapter in another part of the country. The panhellenic office kept deciding who would be on our invitation lists. Right up to preference and our bid lists.

It was so infuriating. We kept releasing certain women, and they kept showing back up on our lists. It didn't matter how angry I got, or who I called, this girl ended up at our house on bid day.



:eek::eek::eek:

Was the chapter stuck with her as a member or did she drop out?

I hope you reported the Greek advisor/panhel office to NPC and your national office.

[littleowl33]

I heard of this kind of situation occuring with a PNM I knew personally. She went through recruitment and ended up getting cut after the first round by every chapter but "chapter A", a smaller, newer group that was considered lower tier. She was a fun, sweet, pretty girl but had made the mistake of ticking off some greeks by not keeping her nose clean during her first semester (they have deferred rush).

To her credit she was consistently polite to chapter A's rushers, but obviously felt that she was "above" them. She dropped out after pref but was snap bid the next day by the higher-tier chapter B, who had cut too heavily early on and missed quota by a few (which is rare for them). She accepted and the you-know-what hit the fan. Usually no one knows or cares if someone was a snap bid, but earlier in recruitment there were girls in that chapter that did not want her there and fought hard to have her cut, so when she showed up on bid day everyone was shocked. The advisor knew this, but had snap bid her anyway without consulting the chapter so they wouldn't miss quota. The really sad thing is that this PNM knew all of this (she shouldn't have, but she did) and STILL decided to join and stick it out. She had a pretty rough new member period because of all the drama and still has few friends in the chapter outside of her big & little. But she gets to wear the letters! :rolleyes:

It was just so disappointing to me that a PNM would drop of out recruitment to avoid getting a bid from a lower-tier group that obviously wanted her, and then take a snap bid from a higher-tier group that just needed a warm body and had a sizeable contingent of girls who made it clear to her that she was not welcome.

[33girl]

By the next day you mean bid day, right? I got a little confused.

My question is what happened to the advisor. It's stories like that one that make me kind of glad our chapter had fairly clueless non-Greek advisors.

[sydney bristow]

Most of the girls snap bid at UK are girls who have dropped out. Some are those who went to pref but didn't receive a bid to any group but that's pretty rare, especially if you attend more than one pref.

[carnation]

Over the years, I have gone to many Bid Days where numerous chapters seemed shocked to see certain girls run to their house. I wonder what happened.

[carnation]

bumping this for the current discussion--

[crescent&pearls]

^^^ Thank you Carnation. I see that this thread was started back in 2006. I wonder if someone can confirm current practices with regard to getting a bid from a chapter the pnm did not list on the MRABA? And I'm talking about the " opening the bid card in the envelope at the common place when and where NMs meet to pick up their bids" bid, not the phone call extended bid. Just to clarify.

My general understanding is that a PNM could potentially get a bid from any chapter she lists on the MRABA, regardless of whether or not she attended their preference party. Personally I've never ever heard of a PNM getting a bid from a group she did not list, and I can't see how declining a bid offered by a chapter the PNM DID NOT LIST could be binding on the PNM's part, nor should it be. That is a totally different scenario from declining a bid from a group the PNM listed, even if she only listed them in hopes that it might improve her chances of getting a bid via quota additions.

[AOII Angel]

^^^ Thank you Carnation. I see that this thread was started back in 2006. I wonder if someone can confirm current practices with regard to getting a bid from a chapter the pnm did not list on the Pref card someone help me with the correct current terminology please! (is it MSP or something close to that?) And I'm talking about the " opening the bid card in the envelope at the common place when and where NMs meet to pick up their bids" bid, not the phone call extended bid. Just to clarify.

My general understanding is that a PNM could potentially get a bid from any chapter she lists on the pref card, regardless of whether or not she attended their preference party. Personally I've never ever heard of a PNM getting a bid from a group she did not list, and I can't see how declining a bid offered in that manner is binding on the PNM's part, nor should it be. That is a totally different scenario from declining a bid from a group the PNM listed, even if she only listed them in hopes that it might improve her chances of getting a bid via quota additions.

I agree. The PNM is only bound to the groups she listed on her bid list. If she had some random group on her card, she could turn them down and COB the next day. This practice must be some odd form of Snap bidding where the girl is not called and given a heads up about the situation. Not a good practice, IMHO.

[crescent&pearls]

If there's a situation where a PNM will be placed to a chapter as a quota addition, and there's a decision to be made as to which of two chapters of exactly equal size, then I would think that would come down to a mini conference with the RFM Director and the reps of the two chapters involved, with the pnm either being placed where she preferred, or with the chapter that had her highest on their list.

As far as snap bids you are talking about offering bids from the chapter's perspective right? I agree with you totally- no chapter wants to hand out a bid to a woman they barely met once on the first day of recruitment. The combination of snap bidding and informal recruitment are designed to help chapters below total to meet that goal and absolutely offer opportunities to women that may have dropped out of recruitment or never participated. Snap bidding and informal were never intended as a "back door" plan to help women who ISP or decline a bid get into the chapter of their preference if they were not matched in the formal matching process.

No campus Panhellenic can force a chapter to offer membership to a PNM without their consent. No PNM is going to get stuck in a chapter that did not vote that woman into membership.