Way to go Congress.

[AXEAM]

Once again the Congress has voted down a raise in the minimum wage....I swear this guys are so out if touch w/ the American people that's it's not even funny.

[shinerbock]

Not to attack on all your threads man, but it could be a good thing. How can people expect job growth, minimum wage hikes, and small business success at the same time? It just doesn't work like that. Also, it was the Democrats who voted down the wage hike, because it was attached to an estate tax reduction.

[AXEAM]

Not to attack on all your threads man, but it could be a good thing. How can people expect job growth, minimum wage hikes, and small business success at the same time? It just doesn't work like that. Also, it was the Democrats who voted down the wage hike, because it was attached to an estate tax reduction.

Your full of crap man explain why the Democrats really didn't go along w/ that attachment....yea you're right it's a good for greedy business but a very bad thing for hard working Americans. We are always preaching about the values of hard work and being responsible but we choose to short change those who do work hard it's funny how Congress always seemed to vote a pay raise for themselves w/no attachments.

[AlphaFrog]

The only job I've EVER seen advertised at minimum wage was work-study type stuff when I was in college. $5.15 might BE the min, but I don't know anyone who actually works for that amount. Hell, when I was in highschool years ago, most fast food places were paying at least $7. The company I work for now pays at least $8 for your (below) average no-experience, uneducated grunt laborer.

[AXEAM]

The only job I've EVER seen advertised at minimum wage was work-study type stuff when I was in college. $5.15 might BE the min, but I don't know anyone who actually works for that amount. Hell, when I was in highschool years ago, most fast food places were paying at least $7. The company I work for now pays at least $8 for your (below) average no-experience, uneducated grunt laborer.

You should visit a couple of southern states like Miss, SC, Ala.

[shinerbock]

Greedy business? Corporations rarely pay minimum wage. Democrats always talk about how they wanna keep jobs in the country, and wanna keep small businesses going, yet they try to raise the minimum wage? Anybody who thinks that will work needs to spend a little more time with an economics book.

Well, if the Democrats had cared enough they could have voted it through, but they didn't. Why? Because it was a political decision. They wanna run on the prospect of raising the minimum wage in November, so if the Republicans pass it now, then not only do we get the estate tax cuts, but we also take away a democratic campaign issue. So if you're interested in blaming somebody, go blame the Democrats.

Also, about the salary raises, of course they'll raise their salary. They do it regularly to keep up with inflation. Most of these guys could be making a lot more than 150k in the private sector.

[AXEAM]

Greedy business? Corporations rarely pay minimum wage. Democrats always talk about how they wanna keep jobs in the country, and wanna keep small businesses going, yet they try to raise the minimum wage? Anybody who thinks that will work needs to spend a little more time with an economics book.

Well, if the Democrats had cared enough they could have voted it through, but they didn't. Why? Because it was a political decision. They wanna run on the prospect of raising the minimum wage in November, so if the Republicans pass it now, then not only do we get the estate tax cuts, but we also take away a democratic campaign issue. So if you're interested in blaming somebody, go blame the Democrats.

Also, about the salary raises, of course they'll raise their salary. They do it regularly to keep up with inflation. Most of these guys could be making a lot more than 150k in the private sector.

Your rants about Democrats are tired and if the congress as you say need raises in their salary to keep up w/ inflation why can't they see that working Americans need a wage raise also.

[shinerbock]

Because Americans don't work for the American government. It isn't the job of congress to up the pay of citizens. You can say my rants on democrats are "tired" but it was still the democrats who voted down your beloved minimum wage hike.

[AXEAM]

Because Americans don't work for the American government. It isn't the job of congress to up the pay of citizens. You can say my rants on democrats are "tired" but it was still the democrats who voted down your beloved minimum wage hike.

No it was the GOP that sabotaged it. Your conservative spin may work other places but not here.

[shinerbock]

The GOP sabotaged what? You act like its the job of the Republicans to raise the minimum wage. The raise is in the interest of some, and not others. You're acting as though its good for all society. If the Democrats really wanted, they could have just voted it through. But they didnt.

[AXEAM]

The GOP sabotaged what? You act like its the job of the Republicans to raise the minimum wage. The raise is in the interest of some, and not others. You're acting as though its good for all society. If the Democrats really wanted, they could have just voted it through. But they didnt.

Like I said you are full of it...so I quess the estate tax is good for all of Americans...and you never answer the question if Congress feels that they need a paid raise why do they feel hard working Americans should not get one. Eight years of GOP control has produce nothing but pain for working class Americans.

[shinerbock]

Except that unemployment is down, the economy has been booming, but yeah, those things suck. I did answer your questions about congressional pay raises. It is the job of congress to decide what the government needs to pay government workers. Minimum wage workers don't work for the government, so its not their responsibility to tell employers what to pay their employees.

The estate tax helps some, but who does it hurt? Those who arent getting the free money anymore? It is ridiculous in this country, a country which proclaims to help people make a better life for their children, that we penalize those who want to pass on the fruit of their efforts to their children. Estate taxes should end, who would that harm?

[AXEAM]

Except that unemployment is down, the economy has been booming, but yeah, those things suck. I did answer your questions about congressional pay raises. It is the job of congress to decide what the government needs to pay government workers. Minimum wage workers don't work for the government, so its not their responsibility to tell employers what to pay their employees.

The estate tax helps some, but who does it hurt? Those who arent getting the free money anymore? It is ridiculous in this country, a country which proclaims to help people make a better life for their children, that we penalize those who want to pass on the fruit of their efforts to their children. Estate taxes should end, who would that harm?

Americans who lost a good paying job under the Bush regime had to replace their lost job w/ a very low paying one not to mention that after a person's unemployment benefits run out they are no longer included in the numbers of the unemployed. So the numbers that claim unemployment is down is really just a mirage, which explains why there is a record number of bankruptcy claims as well as home foreclosures things that wouldn't be if true employment was really up. There is a record deficit, a bull shit war that can't be won (maybe b/c everyone who wanted the war are a bunch of chicken hearted wimps Rummy , Dick: who abused the deferment clause making sure he would never see any fighting and Bush who just quit his military service obligations.), the world's opinion of America is at an all time low all thanks to the GOP.

[shinerbock]

You mean that war that most democrats supported? You guys tend to forget that it wasnt just the GOP that sent us to war. But when it comes to crunch time, the left is ready to get the hell out. They have no desire to see the end of our mission, and are using disgusting tactics to taint what our soldiers are doing.

What does Bush have to do with people having to get new jobs? Nothing. Why are we in a record deficit? Just Iraq? People forget about 9/11, and Katrina. These things cost money, and lots of it. I love how the left suddenly cares about the debt, but constantly call for more social programs? Where should the money come from? Oh right, the wealthy.

Unemployment in the U.S. is measured not by who recieves benefits from the government. Rather, it is a sampling poll done by the BLS which asks whether citizens have worked for pay the week the call is made. This has been done every month since 1994, according to the BLS. They even acknowledge what you said, and say it is not a reliable system, so they don't operate that way. www.bls.gov

Most economists I've heard blame the rising bankruptcies and foreclosures on the amount of debt people in this country are taking on. I don't think it is any secret that many Americans live far beyond their means, and there has been talk for a long time about it catching up with us at some point. Many things can lead to bankruptcy, from things like credit card use (a big one) to high divorce rates. Indications still show that things are going ok for the economy. U.S. News and World Report claims that in June pay rates rose .5%, which was higher than expected. The job growth in this country has been steady, sometimes lower than expected, but often far surpassing expectations.

[AXEAM]

What mission? We were told a pack of lies as to the need for this war, it's plain as day...and if the Bush admin. was on the job 911 would have never happened they were briefed that it was Bin-Laden's plan to attack America by use of planes so instead of constant vacationing and reading to Middle school students about a freakin goat, Bush should have been on the job making sure Bin- Laden didn't pull off his plan. It's funny how he was so willing to shift blame or shall I say decieve the dumb that Iraq was behind 911 even while most of the terrorist were Saudis. I find it funny that Bush would be so willing to send the sons of others to fight in his fool hearted war but when it was his turn he decided to quit the military instead of risking his life in fighting for America.

[ladygreek]

Also, it was the Democrats who voted down the wage hike, because it was attached to an estate tax reduction.
Attached by whom? End of discussion. (and I am neither DFL nor Repub.)

[shinerbock]

It was attached by the Republicans obviously. If they are gonna give something up, why should they not get something in return?

Regarding the comments on 9/11, I don't know where to begin. Everything you say is pretty much a one time leftist talking point which has since been disproven. As I've said before, go read Bush at War, by Bob Woodward. It is an account of the lead up to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Woodward is an unequaled journalist and not a republican. What exactly do you think Bush would have done if he knew when and where the attacks would be? They had heard the same threats from Bin Laden for years, yet you expect Bush to be in the oval, instead of reading to kids, as if it will help the situation? We obviously had our guard down more than we knew, but that has very little to do with Bush. Clinton's administration had threats from Bin Laden, yet made no motion to better secure the country. This is a good example of how Democrats attempt to divide the country. Rather than blaming the terrorist act on the people who did it, being Al Qaeda, you and other are attempting to blame the Bush administration. Not only are you simply and utterly wrong, it is an extremely stupid thing to say. The only people we could possibly place responsibilty on is the intelligence community, but even then it is not a fair accusation. We are fighting an entirely different war, one that unfortunately has to be based on intelligence. This isn't the cold war where we can teach somebody russian and send them to an embassy. We're fighting an enemy that hides in caves in remote deserts, and they are by no means easy to infiltrate. If you'd like to blame this on Bush, go ahead, but he's done far more to secure this country than Clinton did, and far more than Kerry or Gore would have done. Lets not forget that DEMOCRATS voted for the war in Iraq. Now, you can proclaim they were lied to, but that is an idiotic claim. You're telling me senators only go on what the president tells them? Many democratic senators saw the same intelligence Bush saw, and yet voted for the war. I don't buy that they were misled by somebody who they hated to begin with, and have never trusted.

[AXEAM]

It was attached by the Republicans obviously. If they are gonna give something up, why should they not get something in return?

Regarding the comments on 9/11, I don't know where to begin. Everything you say is pretty much a one time leftist talking point which has since been disproven. As I've said before, go read Bush at War, by Bob Woodward. It is an account of the lead up to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Woodward is an unequaled journalist and not a republican. What exactly do you think Bush would have done if he knew when and where the attacks would be? They had heard the same threats from Bin Laden for years, yet you expect Bush to be in the oval, instead of reading to kids, as if it will help the situation? We obviously had our guard down more than we knew, but that has very little to do with Bush. Clinton's administration had threats from Bin Laden, yet made no motion to better secure the country. This is a good example of how Democrats attempt to divide the country. Rather than blaming the terrorist act on the people who did it, being Al Qaeda, you and other are attempting to blame the Bush administration. Not only are you simply and utterly wrong, it is an extremely stupid thing to say. The only people we could possibly place responsibilty on is the intelligence community, but even then it is not a fair accusation. We are fighting an entirely different war, one that unfortunately has to be based on intelligence. This isn't the cold war where we can teach somebody russian and send them to an embassy. We're fighting an enemy that hides in caves in remote deserts, and they are by no means easy to infiltrate. If you'd like to blame this on Bush, go ahead, but he's done far more to secure this country than Clinton did, and far more than Kerry or Gore would have done. Lets not forget that DEMOCRATS voted for the war in Iraq. Now, you can proclaim they were lied to, but that is an idiotic claim. You're telling me senators only go on what the president tells them? Many democratic senators saw the same intelligence Bush saw, and yet voted for the war. I don't buy that they were misled by somebody who they hated to begin with, and have never trusted.


All of your posts are blinded by your brain washed GOP ideology and hatred for Democrats I call it as I see it, you say Bush has done more to secure the country then Clinton ...yet the twin towers and New Orleans are destroyed not to mention the wreck that is Iraq. You don't think that it's funny that all this happened under Bush's watch, Bush is an incompotent failure maybe you ought to read Worse then WaterGate by John W. Dean former counsel to president Nixon.

[djjukebox]

the economy has been booming

What part of America do you live in?

With the War on the wrong country, the USA is in extreme debt !!!!

[shinerbock]

AxEm, maybe you've noticed the incredible building up of homeland security since 9/11? Last time I checked, Bush doesnt have a weather machine, so blaming him for Katrina just displays who incredibly out there you are. It is very difficult to debate someone who defies logic and reason.

As for the economy, flip on CNBC sometime. The stock market has risen, although may be stalling now, we'll see...and job creation has been steady for months.

[AXEAM]

AxEm, maybe you've noticed the incredible building up of homeland security since 9/11? Last time I checked, Bush doesnt have a weather machine, so blaming him for Katrina just displays who incredibly out there you are. It is very difficult to debate someone who defies logic and reason.

As for the economy, flip on CNBC sometime. The stock market has risen, although may be stalling now, we'll see...and job creation has been steady for months.

What incredible build up you mean still having guys making $6 bucks an hour checking passagers of airplanes (and getting rid of the feds making 30 + a year), or the fact that 80% or more of cargo arriving by ship are not checked. Maybe you're speaking of the fact that the border w/ Canada is open like Walmart 24/7 or the fact that Bin laden is still making threats and making videos like a pop star...but we have caught the number three man for Al Qaeda about a million times so I quess that's a plus.

[shinerbock]

Oh, so you mean when Clinton had the chance to catch him we should have. Perhaps you're referring to the billions we're spending on Homeland Security, a new department. Maybe you're talking about the foiled terrorist attempts which have resulted because of our intelligence community working in coordination with other international intelligence groups.

[AXEAM]

Bin-Laden attacked America under Clinton's watch? when ? As for the foil terrorist attacks that's like those color coded warnings a bunch of hype that lacks real substance....have you ever notice how vague those foiled attack or shall I say so called attacks were....never any real information. Yes billions were wasted on homeland security I will admit that.

[AlphaFrog]

Bin-Laden attacked America under Clinton's watch? when ? As for the foil terrorist attacks that's like those color coded warnings a bunch of hype that lacks real substance....have you ever notice how vague those foiled attack or shall I say so called attacks were....never any real information. Yes billions were wasted on homeland security I will admit that.


I think there's probably more attempted terrorist attacks then the American Public knows about. Kind of like the Men In Black thing...a person is smart, but people are dumb, panicy animals and so they don't tell us everything that's going on.

[AXEAM]

I think there's probably more attempted terrorist attacks then the American Public knows about. Kind of like the Men In Black thing...a person is smart, but people are dumb, panicy animals and so they don't tell us everything that's going on.

Sorry to be such a killjoy but to scare the hell out of stupid people is what the Bush admin does best so scare tactics are straight up these guys alley remember yellow-green-Orange, Saddam is trying to buy chemicals from Niger so he can build a nuclear bomb (to go along w/ his WMDs) and attack America, Saddam met w/ the terrorist involved w/9-11.....and on..and on...

[Exquisite5]

Back to the minimum wage debate--

I am with the Republicans on this one. I think the estate tax is ridiculous- I think its even more ridiculous that it will phase out for one year and then come back. Why should a person who dies with 2 million and 1 dollars pay more than one who dies with 2 million? Its arbitrary and its nuts.

I think raising the minimum wage hurts the poor more than it helps them. If I opened my business right now and budgeted for a certain amount of employees based on what I could pay them and then the next year, before my business was in the black, the minimum wage was raised I'd have to fire someone or some-many--- how does that help?

Companies (the small ones anyway) can afford to only expend a certain amount of money- so you can make'em $10/hr and they'll hire 5 people or make'em pay $5/hr and they'll hire 10 people- they're still only paying $50/hr.

IMO- raising the minimum wage is pointless because shinerbock is right (I can't believe we agree, lol) the big corps don't pay minimum wage anyway and the smaller businesses are going to be forced to hire less people (therefore there will be LESS jobs) or close alltogether (MORE unemployed).

[AXEAM]

Well that's your opinion and I think you are wrong and your statement that raising the minium wage will hurt the poor is asinine. Besides I would rather pay (5) employees $10.00/hr and know they will perform better then (10) employees who only make $ 5.25/hr.........oftentimes you get exactly what you pay for.

[AXEAM]

I'm glad to see that the newly elected Democratic congress has the balls to get min wage raised....way to go congress.