The Official "Should the US Have an Official Language" Thread

[AlphaFrog]

I did a search and could not find this discussed, except as a side-bar to other debates.

So, should the US have (an) official Language(s)?

[valkyrie]

No.

[PiKA2001]

If I remember history correctly, didn't they try at one point to make german the offical language? Or was it French? French sounds more logical because of the land they had in America but I want to say that it was german.

[Optimist Prime]

Originally posted by PiKA2001
If I remember history correctly, didn't they try at one point to make german the offical language? Or was it French? French sounds more logical because of the land they had in America but I want to say that it was german.

You're right! It was German, because of the immigrants. There were more German speakers than English speakers but the house (i think i'm getting this right, for once) decided that we should not have an offical language, as the ideals exspoused in our founding should reach beyond cultural and language divides.

In keeping with that, I'd be opposed to any offical language.

[Optimist Prime]

sadly some people think this is true:


SPeak ENglish or Die

[NutBrnHair]

I'm all for celebrating diverse cultures; however, I think the United States needs to be unified by the same language -- English.

[PiKA2001]

Originally posted by valkyrie
No.


Why not? Look around, everything is in english. When Government holds session, it's in english. When you file your taxes, your forms come to you in english. When you open your mail, i'm going to guess it's all in english. When you go to the movies, it's english( unless your watching a foreign film). I guess it might be a little different if you live in FL. CA or TX, but you rarely come across any language other than english in my region of the country.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by PiKA2001
Why not? Look around, everything is in english. When Government holds session, it's in english. When you file your taxes, your forms come to you in english. When you open your mail, i'm going to guess it's all in english. When you go to the movies, it's english( unless your watching a foreign film). I guess it might be a little different if you live in FL. CA or TX, but you rarely come across any language other than english in my region of the country.

Well, if English is the de facto official language of the U.S., which is what you're saying it is, what's the point of actually designating it as the official language? It's a waste of time and energy.

[mulattogyrl]

Originally posted by NutBrnHair
I'm all for celebrating diverse cultures; however, I think the United States needs to be unified by the same language -- English.

I agree with you.

[Rudey]

27 states have English as their official language. That is already a majority.

History has made English into the de-facto official language. Simply passing the legislation would help to remove any confusion that illegal border-crossers and their supporters may have.

I'd rather not see a clash of civilizations much like Europe sees with their immigrants so the encouragement of English would help avoid that.

There are threads on this so I don't understand why someone had to go out and create another one. I speak to my cleaning lady in English. Every once in a while I'll throw in a word or two I picked up from Telemundo but it's nothing serious. I'm not planning on learning Spanish to communicate with her in the future.

-Rudey

[bcdphie]

Most days I am all for multi-culturalism. That is one of the things that makes living in Vancouver (and Canada) such a treat, but the official Canadian languages are English and French.

I have no problems with people keeping their culture, speaking their native tongue, but I wish the Canadian government would stress that fact that to live and work in Canada you should be able to converse reasonably well in English and/or French.

I have had days where I am out running errands and the person helping me can barely speak a word of English (and I know they can't speak any French). I just find that so frustrating. I feel like I'm the foreigner who can't speak their language, yet I'm the one born and raised in Canada.

I don't get it. If I moved to a country that does not speak my native tongue (in this case English) I would learn how to speak their language. I would definately show off my Canadian/British heritage, but at the same time immerse myself into my new culture as well.

Easier said than done. I guess.

[33girl]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Well, if English is the de facto official language of the U.S., which is what you're saying it is, what's the point of actually designating it as the official language?

So none of the federal offices have to go to the expense of hanging notices in multiple languages or offering Spanish language on their phone lines. That's my main reason why I think we should do it.

The problem is though, even if it's "official" it still wouldn't change the fact that there are pockets of the US where any store you go into there won't be any English spoken. Those are private businesses and they can do whatever they want - if they want to speak in all sign language or in pig Latin they can.

[KSigkid]

Yes, for many of the reasons cited in this thread.

[Drolefille]

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
You're right! It was German, because of the immigrants. There were more German speakers than English speakers but the house (i think i'm getting this right, for once) decided that we should not have an offical language, as the ideals exspoused in our founding should reach beyond cultural and language divides.

In keeping with that, I'd be opposed to any offical language.

This is actually an urban legend: http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.htm

In short, no such law was proposed, though they did suggest that they print federal laws in German as well as English, this was never even voted on. IT was decided to only print the laws in English.

[Honeykiss1974]

Yes, English should be the official language of the United States. Doesn't meant that you can't speak whatever else you choose, just that english is the official language of business (and education)...and of the united states.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by 33girl
So none of the federal offices have to go to the expense of hanging notices in multiple languages or offering Spanish language on their phone lines. That's my main reason why I think we should do it.


How expensive is it to hang notices in multiple languages or offer Spanish phone recordings/assistance?

How expensive would enforcement of an "English is the Official Language of the U.S." law/policy be? How much money would be spent enacting such a thing?

I have no idea what the answers are, but it just seems to me that it's likely the costs wouldn't outweigh any benefits.

[Kevin]

valkyrie:

From the other side of things, what are the benefits of not having an official language?

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by ktsnake
valkyrie:

From the other side of things, what are the benefits of not having an official language?

I don't think I've ever tried to advocate for the benefits of not doing something that didn't seem necessary -- but I'll try. Not having an official language is nice and hippie-wonderful inclusive -- how's that?

In all seriousness, if many people in a given area speak a particular language that isn't English, governmental offices having signs/employees/recordings/websites in said language makes things easier for everyone -- for the people who speak that language and for the people who don't want to stand behind them in line at the DMV. Would taking down the signs in whatever language really make the people who need them go out and learn English at that very second? If not, it's just going to complicate things, isn't it? So what's the point?

I'm pulling that out of the air because I don't think of this as a question of benefits v. benefits -- I still think it's benefits v. costs.

[KillarneyRose]

Yes
(oui)
(ja)
(ναι )
(sì)
(да )
(はい )
(그렇다 )
(sim)

[kstar]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I did a search and could not find this discussed, except as a side-bar to other debates.

So, should the US have (an) official Language(s)?

Sorry, but it just isn't that simple. There are laws and treaties that prohibit the federal government from establishing an official language, that would be difficult to ammend.

I don't see the advantages of establishing an official language, when most countries in the world don't have one. Every nation has a de facto language, and isn't that enough?

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by bcdphie
Most days I am all for multi-culturalism. That is one of the things that makes living in Vancouver (and Canada) such a treat, but the official Canadian languages are English and French.

I have no problems with people keeping their culture, speaking their native tongue, but I wish the Canadian government would stress that fact that to live and work in Canada you should be able to converse reasonably well in English and/or French.

I have had days where I am out running errands and the person helping me can barely speak a word of English (and I know they can't speak any French). I just find that so frustrating. I feel like I'm the foreigner who can't speak their language, yet I'm the one born and raised in Canada.

I don't get it. If I moved to a country that does not speak my native tongue (in this case English) I would learn how to speak their language. I would definately show off my Canadian/British heritage, but at the same time immerse myself into my new culture as well.

Easier said than done. I guess.

People shouldn't be given jobs they aren't qualified for. If speaking English reasonably well is one of the qualifications, then they shouldn't have been given the job in the first place. Really, the only people who should be exempted from proficient English and/or French skills are the elderly.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by kstar
Sorry, but it just isn't that simple. There are laws and treaties that prohibit the federal government from establishing an official language, that would be difficult to ammend.

I don't see the advantages of establishing an official language, when most countries in the world don't have one. Every nation has a de facto language, and isn't that enough?

I realize that it's not that simple. I also do not believe that we should have an official language. This thread was an attempt to keep another thread (the Spanish Star Spangled Banner) more on topic, and so I brought this debate to another thread.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by valkyrie
I don't think I've ever tried to advocate for the benefits of not doing something that didn't seem necessary -- but I'll try. Not having an official language is nice and hippie-wonderful inclusive -- how's that?

In all seriousness, if many people in a given area speak a particular language that isn't English, governmental offices having signs/employees/recordings/websites in said language makes things easier for everyone -- for the people who speak that language and for the people who don't want to stand behind them in line at the DMV. Would taking down the signs in whatever language really make the people who need them go out and learn English at that very second? If not, it's just going to complicate things, isn't it? So what's the point?

I'm pulling that out of the air because I don't think of this as a question of benefits v. benefits -- I still think it's benefits v. costs.

Do you think that there would be a benefit in incurring the cost requiring people to learn (and facilitating that learning) english?

It certainly could be a benefit vs. benefit argument. Is it hard to see the inherent advantages when everyone in the same workforce speaks the same language? How about all of the people voting for candidates seeking offices? Many candidates are forced to run dual language campaigns...

I'm not sure the cost vs. benefit is as clear as you make it out out to be. Like you though, my 'thought' here is pure conjecture.

I can definitely see your side of things here -- and I will agree, your view is much more hippie and inclusive ;)

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by ktsnake
How about all of the people voting for candidates seeking offices? Many candidates are forced to run dual language campaigns...

This just stuck out at me. Unless we made it illegal to campaign in a foreign language, I don't think politicians would stop running dual-language campaigns, and frankly, if they have enough constituents to warrant a duel language campaign, then they need to put in the effort to reach out to them. As someone said earlier, just making English the official language would not force people to learn it.

[kstar]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I realize that it's not that simple. I also do not believe that we should have an official language. This thread was an attempt to keep another thread (the Spanish Star Spangled Banner) more on topic, and so I brought this debate to another thread.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean that you thought it was simple. I replied to you because it was the first post, however, many people on here are implying that it is that simple.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Do you think that there would be a benefit in incurring the cost requiring people to learn (and facilitating that learning) english?

It certainly could be a benefit vs. benefit argument. Is it hard to see the inherent advantages when everyone in the same workforce speaks the same language? How about all of the people voting for candidates seeking offices? Many candidates are forced to run dual language campaigns...

I'm not sure the cost vs. benefit is as clear as you make it out out to be. Like you though, my 'thought' here is pure conjecture.

I can definitely see your side of things here -- and I will agree, your view is much more hippie and inclusive ;)

Let's take Spanish and the Mexican sub-population for example. I'd love to know what Mexicans have available to them in terms of work when they don't speak English. Well I guess most cleaning people and the people in the back of kitchens as well as the guys that wait on street corners make it painfully obvious of what they can do.

Aside from opportunities like that, it bridges the cultural divide. Europe often has clashes between people who came there and didn't integrate for whatever reasons and natives. That's why countries like France now won't let Muslims wear headscarves in schools.

-Rudey

[Optimist Prime]

Originally posted by Drolefille
This is actually an urban legend: http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.htm

In short, no such law was proposed, though they did suggest that they print federal laws in German as well as English, this was never even voted on. IT was decided to only print the laws in English.

Thank you for clearing up my mis-con-sceptions

:D

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by kstar
I'm sorry. I didn't mean that you thought it was simple. I replied to you because it was the first post, however, many people on here are implying that it is that simple.

I'm not sure anyone implied it would be "simple" - instead, they replied that they felt English should be the official language (disregarding the difficulty of the task altogether).

[Kevin]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
This just stuck out at me. Unless we made it illegal to campaign in a foreign language, I don't think politicians would stop running dual-language campaigns, and frankly, if they have enough constituents to warrant a duel language campaign, then they need to put in the effort to reach out to them. As someone said earlier, just making English the official language would not force people to learn it.

My thought is that if they are eligible to vote in American elections, they must be citizens. If they are citizens, they should be able to speak english.

Actually, I would be all in favor of a law against dual-language campaigns. I don't think such a law would be quite constitutional unfortunately.

[ZTAngel]

If you come to the US, you should learn English. Growing up in South Florida, it was frustrating to walk into a store at the mall and have the employees not be able to conversate with you. There were numerous occasions where an employee had to get their manager to help them because they weren't able to answer a simple question from me. They were only trained to ring something up....anything more than that caused blank stares. I'll bet these employees still haven't learned English. Why? Because they don't have to. The Americans have catered to them by putting signs up in their language, learning some of their language, etc. The South Florida newspapers constantly did stories on the immigrants from Spanish countries who were quoted as saying, "Why bother learning Engligh? It's unnecessary."

When my family moved to Japan for 2 years, my parents took Japanese language courses and I was taught Japanese at my school. We didn't expect the Japanese to cater to us.

[PiKA2001]

Originally posted by ZTAngel
When my family moved to Japan for 2 years, my parents took Japanese language courses and I was taught Japanese at my school. We didn't expect the Japanese to cater to us.

Kind of like the old school immigrants here. You had to adapt into the melting pot, be an American. My mother had said that her grandparents stopped speaking Italian the day they were able to communicate to each other well in English. Maybe things are a lot easier now for the immigrant than they were 80+ years ago.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by ZTAngel
Growing up in South Florida, it was frustrating to walk into a store at the mall and have the employees not be able to conversate with you.

LOL I totally don't intend to make fun, but speaking of learning English, "conversate" isn't a word. ;) (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Back to what ktsnake said: I don't think it would EVER be possible to require people in general to learn English. Facilitating would be awesome, although I have no idea how much that happens already.

Your point about candidates being "forced" to run dual-language campaigns is not compelling to me. First of all, I don't think it can be considered "force" if a candidate tries to appeal to voters by speaking their language. Do it or not -- of course not doing it will have consequences, but that doesn't amount to force in my opinion. Also, these candidates are free to move to a place where everybody speaks English and campaign there, right?

Finally, I don't think the issue of employees who can't speak English is an issue for the government/law/national policy. If you go to a store where the employees can't speak English and that bothers you, don't shop there. The government can't regulate that.

LOL am I wrong, or am I arguing for less governmental intervention here, while some I'd consider conservative are arguing for more?

[Kevin]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Your point about candidates being "forced" to run dual-language campaigns is not compelling to me. First of all, I don't think it can be considered "force" if a candidate tries to appeal to voters by speaking their language. Do it or not -- of course not doing it will have consequences, but that doesn't amount to force in my opinion.

To vote in an American election, you must be an American citizen, correct? To become an American citizen, you have to meet certain requirements. Unless you are above a certain age, you must actually be able to show a minimum level of competence in using the english language as shown at this random website I googled:

http://www.dar.org/natsociety/Citizenship.cfm?TP=Show&ID=77

This raises 2 possibilities in my mind for a "citizen" to be catered to in a language other than english -- either they qualify under the exemption because of their age (which probably isn't a highly significant portion of the immigrant population) or they committed fraud on their applications to become citizens. It seems that either of those two must be true if they feel that a candidate must campaign in spanish.

I'm not really sure that as a matter of public policy we should be turning a blind eye to those who defraud the INS... But of course, there are certain 1st amendment rights that we must be conscious of here, and I think (I hope) that those win out. So valkyrie, I grudgingly accept that on this point, you're probably right -- I just don't like it :)

Finally, I don't think the issue of employees who can't speak English is an issue for the government/law/national policy. If you go to a store where the employees can't speak English and that bothers you, don't shop there. The government can't regulate that.

Actually, I see some huge potential benefits. Often, communication is critical in ensuring safety for employees and ensuring that employers are doing all they can to avoid liability. I would think that the payoff for employees all being able to read the same safety manuals or to heed the same warnings from their supervisors could be huge.

The cost-benefit analysis may prove to be more complex than you propose.

LOL am I wrong, or am I arguing for less governmental intervention here, while some I'd consider conservative are arguing for more?

Upholding the law we currently have versus maintaining the status quo which involves ignoring the law we currently have... Nah.. you're fine -- liberals love to ignore the law ;)

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Upholding the law we currently have versus maintaining the status quo which involves ignoring the law we currently have... Nah.. you're fine -- liberals love to ignore the law ;)

Hey! Only when the law invovles drugs.

JUST KIDDING!!!

[MrsMcCartney]

I think we all know that the vast majority of Americans speak English, even if it is not their original language. That said, I don't think that it needs to be designated "officially." HOWEVER, I am tired of people whining that we need to accommodate other languages as a matter of course, in other words having signs, directions, etc in more than one language (Spanish is the one most cited.) In America we speak English, and if you choose not to do so then everyone else should not be expected to accommodate you.

[texas*princess]

Wow, I seriously didn't know some states had an "official language" but yet the entire U.S. doesn't.

I agree w/ Pika2001... everything is in English, so why not?

I also agree with MrsMcCartney -- this drives me absolutely nuts!

I'm hispanic, and I don't speak Spanish. When I worked in retail, it drove me NUTS how people would start talking to me in super fast Spanish and I had no clue what they were saying. Then they either got mad at me and left because I couldn't understand what they were saying and no one else in the store spoke Spanish, or they STARTED SPEAKING TO ME IN ENGLISH!!

Umm... why didn't you just talk to me in English to begin with? :confused: It was so frustrating.

[33girl]

Update: Senate proposes making English official language (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-519englishlanguage,0,3562443.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines)

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by 33girl
Update: Senate proposes making English official language (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-519englishlanguage,0,3562443.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines) The amendment to the Senate's immigration reform bill to which the article refers would not make English the "official" language of the US. It would declare English to be the "common and unifying" language of the country.

The exact language as it currently stands is:

The Government of the United States shall preserve and enhance the role of English as the common and unifying language of America. Nothing herein shall diminish or expand any existing rights under the law of the United States relative to services or materials provided by the government of the United States in any language other than English.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
The amendment to the Senate's immigration reform bill to which the article refers would not make English the "official" language of the US. It would declare English to be the "common and unifying" language of the country.

The exact language as it currently stands is:

The Government of the United States shall preserve and enhance the role of English as the common and unifying language of America. Nothing herein shall diminish or expand any existing rights under the law of the United States relative to services or materials provided by the government of the United States in any language other than English.

How is that different from an official language?

An official language doesn't force you to eliminate all other languages. The legislators that have introduced and supported this measure have said it is for an "Official" language, the news reports reflect that, and an "Official" language does seem to be defined as a "Common and unifying language", no?

-Rudey

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by Rudey
How is that different from an official language?

-Rudey

Common and unifying is unofficial, if it was official, then all government forms/paperwork/etc would be required to be in English.

[dzrose93]

From what I understand, if it goes on the books as "official", then we'll be saving quite a bit in tax dollars because government agencies wouldn't have to offer all of the paperwork in other languages anymore. If it goes on the books as "common and unifying", then it doesn't do jack for the taxpayers.

Someone please correct me if this is an incorrect interpretation.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Rudey
How is that different from an official language?

An official language doesn't force you to eliminate all other languages. The legislators that have introduced and supported this measure have said it is for an "Official" language, the news reports reflect that, and an "Official" language does seem to be defined as a "Common and unifying language", no? Actually, no. An official language is one that has privileged/protected status under the law, regardless of whether the majority of the people in the country actually speak it (i.e., regardless of whether it is the common language of the country or unifies the country).

For example, Irish (Irish Gaelic) is the "first official language" of Ireland, even though far less than 1/4 of the people in the Republic speak it as their native language. (Most schools are required to teach it.) English is the "second official language," according to Article 8 of the Irish Constitution (http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland.pdf). Accordingly, if there is disagreement as to the meaning of a provision of the Irish Constitution, the Irish text takes precendence over the English text.

English is the official language of Botswana, even though it is spoken on a daily basis by only about 3% of the population, while Setswana (spoken by over 75%) is the "national language" of the country. French is the official language of Burkina Faso and Benin, while the majority of people speak African languages and have to be taught French in school. The same situation can be seen in many former French and British colonies -- here, English or French may be "common" in the sense that they are the languages that various groups in the country hold in common, but they are hardly the commonly-used languages of most people. They operate almost as a diplomatic compromise.

For more: Wikipedia: Official Language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_language) and Wikipedia: National Language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_language)

I certainly haven't heard all reports, but I haven't heard any legislators who support this measure refer to this as an "official language" provision -- I've heard "national" and "common and unifying." These terms simply recognize that English is the de facto national language of the US-- the language spoken by most people and commonly used in government and commerce; they don't confer any privileged status on English.
Originally posted by dzrose
From what I understand, if it goes on the books as "official", then we'll be saving quite a bit in tax dollars because government agencies wouldn't have to offer all of the paperwork in other languages anymore. Not necessarily. It would depend on the actual provisions of any law making English the official language of the country. A law could make English the official language, but still allow for the use of other languages or could prohibit the official use of other languages. Other languages could include Spanish and other immigrant languages, as well as native languages, such as Cherokee, Navajo, etc.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Not necessarily. It would depend on the actual provisions of any law making English the official language of the country. A law could make English the official language, but still allow for the use of other languages or could prohibit the official use of other languages. Other languages could include Spanish and other immigrant languages, as well as native languages, such as Cherokee, Navajo, etc.


This is exactly right - and also addresses AlphaFrog's point (which is entirely fallacious).

At no point is there a 'guarantee' that an Official Language would eliminate documents in other languages, etc etc. Realistically, these provisions would have to be entered into the law individually - many have promoted these provisions as part of making English the official language, but they are not de facto elements of 'official language' status.

[Rudey]

I believe the phrase is "Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other". :)

-Rudey

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Actually, no. An official language is one that has privileged/protected status under the law, regardless of whether the majority of the people in the country actually speak it (i.e., regardless of whether it is the common language of the country or unifies the country).

For example, Irish (Irish Gaelic) is the "first official language" of Ireland, even though far less than 1/4 of the people in the Republic speak it as their native language. (Most schools are required to teach it.) English is the "second official language," according to Article 8 of the Irish Constitution (http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland.pdf). Accordingly, if there is disagreement as to the meaning of a provision of the Irish Constitution, the Irish text takes precendence over the English text.

English is the official language of Botswana, even though it is spoken on a daily basis by only about 3% of the population, while Setswana (spoken by over 75%) is the "national language" of the country. French is the official language of Burkina Faso and Benin, while the majority of people speak African languages and have to be taught French in school. The same situation can be seen in many former French and British colonies -- here, English or French may be "common" in the sense that they are the languages that various groups in the country hold in common, but they are hardly the commonly-used languages of most people. They operate almost as a diplomatic compromise.

For more: Wikipedia: Official Language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_language) and Wikipedia: National Language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_language)

I certainly haven't heard all reports, but I haven't heard any legislators who support this measure refer to this as an "official language" provision -- I've heard "national" and "common and unifying." These terms simply recognize that English is the de facto national language of the US-- the language spoken by most people and commonly used in government and commerce; they don't confer any privileged status on English.
Not necessarily. It would depend on the actual provisions of any law making English the official language of the country. A law could make English the official language, but still allow for the use of other languages or could prohibit the official use of other languages. Other languages could include Spanish and other immigrant languages, as well as native languages, such as Cherokee, Navajo, etc.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Rudey
I believe the phrase is "Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other". :)Perhaps, if you can consider a language spoken on a daily basis by less than 10% of a country's population to be "common and unifying." ;)

The issue is simply whether the Senate amendments to the immigration reform bill confer any legal status on English, as opposed to symbolic status. Since "national" and "common and unifying" confer no real legal status, they do not create an official language.

I think the real issue is one of expectations. The cynic in me thinks that many politicians propose phrases like "national language" and "common and unifying language" in order to placate those who want to see English made the official language of the US, knowing that the phrases they are proposing are really only symbolic and accomplish little.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Perhaps, if you can consider a language spoken on a daily basis by less than 10% of a country's population to be "common and unifying." ;)

The issue is simply whether the Senate amendments to the immigration reform bill confer any legal status on English, as opposed to symbolic status. Since "national" and "common and unifying" confer no real legal status, they do not create an official language.

I think the real issue is one of expectations. The cynic in me thinks that many politicians propose phrases like "national language" and "common and unifying language" in order to placate those who want to see English made the official language of the US, knowing that the phrases they are proposing are really only symbolic and accomplish little.

It's all about baby steps. Another baby step is a proposal to reduce non-English services. After a few baby steps, you realize you've moved ahead quite a bit.

And I'd love to see where that 10% came from.

-Rudey

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Rudey
And I'd love to see where that 10% came from.From my previous post. I wasn't referring to English in the US. I was referring to official languages in some other countries such as those to which I had already referred -- Ireland, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Benin -- where only a small minority of the population actually speak the official language on a daily basis.

[Optimist Prime]

this is almost a non-issue, at least to me, but valid to some, so...






who cares? will it effect which language(s) you speak?

[BetteDavisEyes]

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
this is almost a non-issue, at least to me, but valid to some, so...


who cares? will it effect which language(s) you speak?



I agree.


For the record, Hispanic is not an ethnicity or race. It is merely a term used for any person that speaks Spanish regardless of ethnicity. Latino/Chicano is the term used when referring to anyone of Latin descent.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by BetteDavisEyes
I agree.


For the record, Hispanic is not an ethnicity or race. It is merely a term used for any person that speaks Spanish regardless of ethnicity. Latino/Chicano is the term used when referring to anyone of Latin descent.

So if I speak Spanish I'm hispanic?

Doesn't Chicano mean Mexican and Latino mean Latin American?

I know a few Spanish words so I'm part hispanic...cool :)

-Rudey
--For the record La Primera lives!

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by BetteDavisEyes
For the record, Hispanic is not an ethnicity or race. It is merely a term used for any person that speaks Spanish regardless of ethnicity. Latino/Chicano is the term used when referring to anyone of Latin descent.


This is somewhat oversimplified - the term 'hispanic' (from a demographic point of view) refers to those of descent from spanish-speaking cultures/heritage, or Latin America (this excludes Rudey, although his conversion may be taking place before our very eyes).

While it is not technically a 'race', it is used demographically to define hispanic populations from the large bodies of 'black' or 'white' (both of which 'Hispanic' can fall into, as can Latino).

[xo_kathy]

Originally posted by BetteDavisEyes

For the record, Hispanic is not an ethnicity or race. It is merely a term used for any person that speaks Spanish regardless of ethnicity. Latino/Chicano is the term used when referring to anyone of Latin descent.


I agree with KSig.

Also, Chicano is NOT in anyway a term for anyone of Latin descent. Don't say that up in Washington Heights or the Bronx - you'll have a load of Dominicans, Puerto Ricans and Cubans ready to set you straight! As far as I know, Chicano is used for Mexican Americans only.

[Phasad1913]

Given the history of this country, the federal government should not make that kind of a symbolic statement. It isn;t going to change anything with regard to how people communicate either among themselves or in other, more official and professional environments. The country has a lot of different groups of people in it. These groups speak different languages. Period. There is nothing that can or should be done about it. Over time, it just happened. The nation, meaning its people, should realize, understand and accept that. The desire and effort to learn the language that most people speak in ths and any other country is going to have to come from within that person if THEY feel that it will be necessary for them to live and prosper in that nation. That is the same inner motivation that is required for other types of assimilation. The federal government should not step over that line. Again, that socio-political statement such an act would make would be terrible.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by xo_kathy
IAlso, Chicano is NOT in anyway a term for anyone of Latin descent. Don't say that up in Washington Heights or the Bronx - you'll have a load of Dominicans, Puerto Ricans and Cubans ready to set you straight! As far as I know, Chicano is used for Mexican Americans only.

It's also something that someone outside the Mexican community should not use. My husband wouldn't be offended if I called him Chicano, but he might be if one of his coworkers did. My husband most often calls himself a "Hispano" and sometimes "Latino".

[ann.coulter2]

So, should the US have (an) official Language(s)?

My friend Newt thinks so. Read his opinion recently posted on my favorite Lambda Alpha Upsilon forum.

[RoyalEmpress33]

I did a search and could not find this discussed, except as a side-bar to other debates.

So, should the US have (an) official Language(s)?

Although some people may disagree with me,and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, I believe we should have an official language. I'm well aware that America is made up of many different cultures and languages, but English is the dominant language, well for right now anyway.I look at it like this, if Blacks as well as other minority groups had to learn it and accept it as the official language, than why can't anyone else? Asking this is just like asking if a large sum of Americans or other nations started to migrate to Mexico or somewhere in South America for instance where Spanish is spoken, and then saying, "You should make English the official language." Sorry if I digressed a bit, but I was thinking about this lately as well...

[UGAalum94]

I think we should have English as the official language.

I also think that we should limit and define what additional languages that government services will be provided in.

I've got no problem with Spanish being an official second language, but I think the idea that we can accommodate all the world’s languages is unrealistic and impractical.

I don’t think we should have bilingual or multi-lingual schools although I think schools should provide ESOL services for a well-defined number of years to those who need them. (I don’t think any students should be served by ESOL for their entire school careers, but mainly because it becomes a dumping ground although NCLB is helping with this.)

Could whoever mentioned laws and treaties that prohibited the US having an official language please name some? I know we’d have to repeal any current laws that are contrary to a new one, but the use of treaties made me think you meant something international.

As far as the historic arguments go, when we had the “melting pot” as our central immigration metaphor, we emphasized assimilation, and learning English was considered an American trait. As we’ve moved to the salad bowl metaphor, emphasizing multi-culturalism, I think the motivation to learn English is diminished. Because I firmly believe that being able to communicate with each other is a core national value, I don’t think separate language groups is a good idea. We need to speak the same language to be one national people.

[PiKA2001]

I think we should have English as the official language.

As far as the historic arguments go, when we had the “melting pot” as our central immigration metaphor, we emphasized assimilation, and learning English was considered an American trait. As we’ve moved to the salad bowl metaphor, emphasizing multi-culturalism, I think the motivation to learn English is diminished. Because I firmly believe that being able to communicate with each other is a core national value, I don’t think separate language groups is a good idea. We need to speak the same language to be one national people.

Well said. It's hard to bring this up (English as the US's official language) without people screaming foul in regards to using this as a tool to discriminate against immigrants. On a side note, listen to this : I was at a McDonalds in Phoenix, AZ a few weeks ago having lunch. When I ordered I spoke to the lady in English, she understood me/what I ordered, but only replied to me in Spanish. She counted my change back to me in Spanish, and told me "thank you" in Spanish when she handed me my bag. I felt that was really rude of her, and was tempted to go back and order a meal in German.

[ThetaPrincess24]

I did a search and could not find this discussed, except as a side-bar to other debates.

So, should the US have (an) official Language(s)?


Yes and it should be English.

[33girl]

Well said. It's hard to bring this up (English as the US's official language) without people screaming foul in regards to using this as a tool to discriminate against immigrants. On a side note, listen to this : I was at a McDonalds in Phoenix, AZ a few weeks ago having lunch. When I ordered I spoke to the lady in English, she understood me/what I ordered, but only replied to me in Spanish. She counted my change back to me in Spanish, and told me "thank you" in Spanish when she handed me my bag. I felt that was really rude of her, and was tempted to go back and order a meal in German.

I would definitely write a letter to the local newspaper and McDonald's corporate headquarters. IMO, that's the same as if she was standing there picking her nose while she waited on you.

[MysticCat]

I think we should have English as the official language.

I also think that we should limit and define what additional languages that government services will be provided in. . . . .

Could whoever mentioned laws and treaties that prohibited the US having an official language please name some?The one person who mentioned treaties in this thread has previously cited the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo as banning an official language in the US. Suffice it to say, that's a misreading of the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo.

As for other laws, I could be quite wrong on this, but if the goal is to eliminate the offering of government services in languages other than English, I wonder if a constitutional amendment would be required. At the least, I would foresee years of litigation on the issue.

[SydneyK]

It's hard to bring this up (English as the US's official language) without people screaming foul in regards to using this as a tool to discriminate against immigrants.

You're absolutely right. And (this is going to sound horribly crass, but I'm gonna say it anyway), the whole discrimination thing has gone way too far. Anymore, everyone can find something to shout, "Discrimination!" at. Blondes are discriminated against because they're blonde. Overweight people are discriminated against because of their weight. Men are discriminated against because they're men. The list is endless. We (in the national sense) don't look for "tools" to enable us to discriminate. We (in the national sense) just look for a way to communicate with one another. If someone who speaks another language comes here to live, they, assuming they want to communicate effectively with us (nationally), need to learn our language. It's not a ploy, or a trick, or some underhanded scheme... it's a language for crying out loud. Learn it -- or don't. But don't expect us (nationally) to learn your language. After all, you're the one who came here.

(Yikes. Sorry for the rant.)