Help -- Puppy issues

[texas*princess]

My dog is almost a year old. She has done AWESOME with her house breaking and knows not to go anywhere inside my apt.

Up until recently she had a smaller "house" (crate) because she was a lot smaller when I first got her.

I have recently (2 wks ago) moved her to a slightly bigger crate, because it gives her room to get up and turn around and lets her lay more comfortably. I hate leaving her all crated up when I'm at work, but she will get into EVERYTHING if I don't (I've tried ;))

She recognizes that this new crate is her house. She stores her favorite toys in there, and sleeps in there even when I don't have the door closed.

My problem is that recently she is havng issues holding her bladder when I'm at work so I clean it out every day (I even use the enzyme spray).

Last night she went in the middle of the night- which she has never done before - and didn't even bark or anything to let me know she wanted out of her house.

What am I doing wrong?

I don't want to put her back in her old house because I know that she won't go potty during the day, but it can't be comfortable for her because she can't stand up and move around like she used to when she was smaller.

I considered hiring someone I knew & trusted to come during lunch to let her out, but everyone I know & trust already has a daytime job that isn't close to my apartment.

Please help!

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

Are you crating her all day AND all night?

[AOIIalum]

Not quite 20 questions, but:

Have you changed her diet recently?

What about her general schedule? Has your work schedule changed so maybe she's crated a different times or longer than she's used to?

Do you always walk her in the morning and night if she is crated all day long? If not, that's the first change I'd make!

Have you bought new food and water bowls for her recently? Or maybe just moved them from where she used to eat/drink?

Do you leave the door to her crate open when you are home so she can come and go out of it as she pleases? If you do not, I recommend doing so.

[aggieAXO]

Whenever I have a history of inappropriate urination I recommend ruling out medical problems first before jumping to behavioral causes. You may want to get her checked to make sure she does not have a urinary tract infection or some other problem which can lead to "accidents".

[honeychile]

I so wish I could help you! As you know, Buffy was rescued, and even though he is 6, he still has bladder issues. We've been able to nail his down to two circumstances:
1) He needs to go out, and no one is there to let him out. (Please don't suggest crating him - he becomes completely hysterical and whimpers for days afterwards. Remember, Buffy was abused in many ways, including 3 broken ribs.)
or
2) As he was the stud in a puppy mill, he still "marks". He especially feels the need to mark my things, so I keep my bedroom door shut.

We're having a little bit of luck with getting him to keep his accidents in either the kitchen or laundry room, which aren't carpeted - now, to keep it up! He's going to be evaluated for becoming a therapy dog soon, so we're hoping that they'll be able to help us. Otherwise, there's a "binder" (diaper) for male dogs who still mark. I'd rather not do that to him.

[epchick]

Are you saying that you leave her in the Crate (with the door closed) when you are at work?

I know with my puppy, I leave his crate open, and just put a couple of puppy pads in the area around his crate and then have his food in a place where he can see it. So when I leave for school, I just close the door to my room (which is where everything is at) and he will just eat, play, sleep and poop. It has worked pretty good.

Maybe you should just leave your puppy in a room, and have everything around it. Crate (with the door always open), puppy pads (or whatever u have), and food. Your puppy should be fine like that when you aren't around.

[kstar]

Originally posted by epchick
Maybe you should just leave your puppy in a room, and have everything around it. Crate (with the door always open), puppy pads (or whatever u have), and food. Your puppy should be fine like that when you aren't around.

That is asking for her dog to chew, eat, and get into things. I'm a big fan of crate training, though.

I concur that you should check for medical issues with your vet before jumping to behavioral issues.

Other than that, dogs usually will not mess where they sleep, that's the whole principle behind crate training. Did you change the bedding/pad in the crate when you changed crates? If you did, the change in smell could be the reason. Dogs also are simply resistant to change. Maybe try putting her smaller crate in the larger one for a few days?

[SissyC0109]

I can't believe you're crating your dog all day while you're at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's sick!

You say it's because she'll "get into" things if you don't. But that's why people train dogs.

What you're doing is awful! Shame on you.

[kddani]

Originally posted by SissyC0109
I can't believe you're crating your dog all day while you're at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's sick!

You say it's because she'll "get into" things if you don't. But that's why people train dogs.

What you're doing is awful! Shame on you.

Oh that's not sick, get over yourself. Many, many people do that, especially when they're puppies and making a mess around things and chewing on thing, etc.

[ZTAngel]

Do you leave her food in the cage when you're gone? If not, do that. Have you ever heard the phrase "don't shit where you eat"? It applies to dogs. Totally serious. When my dog was still young, we would put him in his cage (an oversized one) when we were at work. He was known to chew anything that he could get to including shoes (a new pair of Ferragamo's had to be thrown away...sad day), toilet paper, clothes, and furniture.

It was only for 8 hours that we'd be gone but he would still use the bathroom in his cage as a way of telling us he was upset for leaving him. As soon as we put food in there with him, it stopped.

Now that he's older, we leave him out when we're gone since he's fully potty trained and he doesn't chew things up!

[AOIIalum]

Originally posted by SissyC0109
I can't believe you're crating your dog all day while you're at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's sick!

You say it's because she'll "get into" things if you don't. But that's why people train dogs.

What you're doing is awful! Shame on you.

No, it is not awful or sick. It is a humane and responsible thing for a dog to be crate trained. Many breeds of dogs, especially puppies, are curious by nature. They also have an inherent need to have their own secure space. A crate provides them such a space, as well as restricts movement as needed--for the dog's safety. In general, houses with a puppy need to be puppyproofed, just as you'd babyproof a house if you had a baby/toddler.

And while I'm on a roll, the concept that puppyhood is only a year long, then they're an adult dog after their first birthday is so wrong. Puppies=babies, 2-3 year old dogs=toddlers. Would you let your toddler run free throughout the house? Same goes for your dog.

More information on crate training can be found at:
http://dogs.about.com/cs/basictraining/p/crate_training.htm

[kddani]

Originally posted by SissyC0109
DO NOT tell me to get over myself, you little rabid twit!

Many, many people may do it but that doesn't make it right. And, if you had bothered to read the OP then you would know that this is not a puppy. The dog is a year old. Yes, they often will chew things up during this stage, that's not an excuse to crate the dog up.

Someone didn't go to church this morning, obviously. It's it a little early in the morning to be so nasty and hateful toward everyone?

Being that aggieAXO posted in this thread with advice, and that aggieAXO is also a VETERINARIAN, i'm sure that if crating was so horribly evil and wrong, she would've pointed that out.

Puppy training is like child rearing. There are many opinions on what should and shouldn't be done. And don't different breeds take to different methods in different ways?

Just because someone doesn't practice the same methods as you do doesn't mean that they are "sick", "awful" and that they should be "ashamed".

[saetex]

Originally posted by kddani
Oh that's not sick, get over yourself. Many, many people do that, especially when they're puppies and making a mess around things and chewing on thing, etc.


I have a black lab and a catahoula leaopard hound, both for hunting, that I raised myself...at a very young age from the breeder.....5 weeks.

I never kept them in a cage.....even when I was at school or at my internship last summer. I took them out early in the morning, before I left for school, during the lunch break or sometime in the afternoon, and then at night. I also made sure that they had their toys and dental hygeine chew bones so that they wouldn't "make a mess of things." They were potty trained very quickly and I never had a problem going in the house.

The only time I have ever put them in a cage is when I go hunting and I put them in the dog box in the back of my truck.

Cages are restraining and not very good for young developing puppies.

If your dogs are pissing in the crate and you don't discipline them, they will continue to go in the crate becuase they don't think anything is wrong.
Take your dogs snout, stick it in the area that he went and tell him no and give him a little swat. They will soon learn after a couple times what they are doing. I would lose the cage, let the dogs roam around in a room, and then train them by discipline not to go in the house....but you have to take them out 4,5,6 times for it to work.

....this is perfectly good obedience training, don't think i'm a dog beater or anything...I love my animals.

[texas*princess]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Violet is a VERY curious dog, and she also has a ton of toys, but no matter how many toys she has, she will sometimes want to chew things that are not her toys which is why I choose to crate her when I can't be home to watch her. Not only is it because I don't want her to chew something that isn't hers, but I also feel better b/c I'd hate for her to do something to hurt herself while I wasn't here.

We have been going on long walks in the evening, and she gets plenty of exercise/play time when I'm home.

Her diet has been the same - I even keep her on a regular eating schedule. I will try putting her food inside her crate and see how that goes. There is plenty of room in her new crate.

When I mentioned that she sleeps in there even when the door is closed, I meant afternoon naps on the weekends b/c I'm home all weekend so I don't crate her w/ the door closed during the day. When she's ready for a nap she will get into her crate and sleep.

Her bedding has changed. In the smaller crate she had a very fluffy blanket. In her new one, I have been using regular bed pillows and put her blanket in there w/ her. (I figured it would be more comfortable). I've bought several back-up pillows in case she has accidents so she won't be in there with a dirty one.

I've scheduled an apt Monday w/ her vet to get her checked out for any medical things that may be causing her problem.

saetx - I will NOT hit my dog, nor will I take her snout and shove it into her mess.

[Xylochick216]

Good luck :) We crate trained out puppy, and it's worked wonderfully. If the weather is nice, we leave her in her large kennel outside when we're at work. If it's not, she has her cage inside large enough for her to move around with plenty to do. Crate training isn't cruel at all. It works well, and the dog isn't kept in the crate 24/7. She spends the rest of the time out with us. It's just her nature to want to chew. We've tried puppy school and all sorts of books; she's just a chewer, and I don't want to let her run around and chew everything in sight when we're not around.

[AOIIalum]

If you still have her old blanket, maybe try putting it back in with her. Just like kids, dogs do have "security" blankets (and/or toys!)

Hope all checks out at the vet visit.

Ali will be 5 at the end of the month, and it took her until she was almost 3 before we could really trust her alone in the house for any long period of time. Now we rarely if ever need to crate her, but she still has her crate in our bedroom and goes in it whenever she needs some down time.

[Buttonz]

Originally posted by AOIIalum
If you still have her old blanket, maybe try putting it back in with her. Just like kids, dogs do have "security" blankets (and/or toys!)


That's what I was gonna suggest.

Both Baily & Rusty were crate trained. By the time Baily was a year old, the crate was left open and he had access in and out of it as much as he wanted. Rusty still isn't 100% house trained (he's a year and a half) but he's been moved to the kitchen and it's gated off so he has a lot more room when we aren't home to watch him. Anytime he pees anywhere in the house though, he walks into the crate by himself, knowing he was wrong.

There is nothing wrong with crate training a dog. Just make sure they have plenty of time outside of the crate while you are home.

[UKTriDelt]

Originally posted by texas*princess
saetx - I will NOT hit my dog, nor will I take her snout and shove it into her mess.

I'm not in favor of hitting dogs either, but our vet suggested the same thing about putting our old dog's nose into the area where he urinated and telling him "no" firmly. It has no adverse effects on the dog, and they learn quickly that what they've done is wrong.

[kstar]

Originally posted by UKTriDelt
I'm not in favor of hitting dogs either, but our vet suggested the same thing about putting our old dog's nose into the area where he urinated and telling him "no" firmly. It has no adverse effects on the dog, and they learn quickly that what they've done is wrong.

How "old school" is your vet?

I'm finishing my vet tech training, and going through the process of vet school apps. I would venture a guess that most vets trained more recently wouldn't advise this method. The dog doesn't relate the punishment with the crime, unless you caught him in the act, which is unlikely since this is while she is at work. This method called fear or aversion training, really doesn't work with canines.

And people who suggest crating is wrong, it isn't just for convenience. A dog came into the hospital after getting into a childproofed cabinet and biting a bottle of bleach. The owner didn't know how long the dog had been throwing up, since it happened when she was at work. Crating would have prevented this.

Then, there is the story about two of my friends in school. Their apartment got broken into, and both of their dogs were there at the time. The one who was never crated was shot in the head, yet the other was left alone, even though both rooms were ransacked. The intruder didn't find the crated dog a threat. My friend who lost her dog said that she would have given everything in her room to have her dog back. The first thing she did when she got a new dog was buy a crate.

[honeychile]

Our Buffy (a Bichon) was a rescue dog, so we don't know how he was trained - but it surely didn't involve a crate! He becomes semi-hysterical if he's crated. So, we found a soft-sided crate that we call his "house". It has several zipper entries, so we can put him in his house in the car, and dangle an arm to pet him. He'll tolerate that. Whoever "trained" him did a horrible job!

One thing I picked up from a vet was to NEVER hit a small dog!! Buffy's had 3 broken ribs, which we don't know how he got, but he passionately hates mailmen. So, if he gets wild about a mailman or whatever, I "nose" him. I put one finger on the bridge of his nose and say "NO!" (never "bad dog"). He hates that, so shuts up immediately. He's finally getting to the point that just saying, "I will nose you!" will shut him up - sometimes!

Aversion has never worked with him, but Buffy responds well to praise. If he absolutely has to go inside (it was 3 degrees here today!), he knows that going in the kitchen, and letting us know about it means he won't be punished. This is a huge improvement from when he came to us, and piddled everywhere!! A "Good Dog!" goes a long way with him!

[aggieAXO]

Crating is fine. Almost every veterinarian I work with crate their dogs while they are out and some bring them to work and crate them there. I crated my dog -if I didn't she would have eaten everything (she ate an entire bathroom one time while I was at a concert for 2 hours). Unfortunately, many people have busy lifestyles and while it would be nice to be able to only be gone from your house for a few hours and then come home and spend the rest of the time with your pets it is not going to happen. Most people do the best they can.

There are doggy daycares which are ok though it is just like a child daycare situation-they can catch such things as kennel cough so be aware of this. Plus, I have had a few cases where the dogs were out playing with each other and ended up getting into a fight resulting in lacerations/bite wounds. I would not recommend these places for a puppy under 4-6 months of age as even if fully vaccinated I have had puppies contract parvo virus.

signed,
a horrible veterinarian that crated her dog (and sometimes her cat)

[honeychile]

I don't want people to think that I'm anti-crating. I just don't know if our dog was or not. I highly doubt it, and I wish he had been - crated dogs are easier to deal with.

A fireman told me once that they'll release an uncrated dog, but will actually rescue a crated one - because they don't know if the dog will bite etc. I can understand that.

I take Buffy to work with me, so it's not like he spends a lot of time alone. We also take him to doggie daycare when we're out of town - it's funny, he heads right for the person! He definitely likes to be with people more than other dogs! My mother & I volunteer several times a year in DC, and we stay at a hotel that accepts dogs, and is near a doggie daycare center. The people at the hotel love him so much, they call him Mr. Buff, and will set up a table & chairs for us to have a meal in the hall, instead of the restaurant, just so he can stay with us! But obviously, all doggie daycares are not created equally! He goes to the Happy Tails in McLean, VA, but that was after we investigated several others. We feel that he's had enough abuse, to put him through more.

While we're talking doggie issues, what's the scoop about micro-chipping? Does it hurt them? I'm all for having it done to Buffy, but we don't want him shaved, if possible. Also, I may take him to school to become a therapy dog - is that misuse of a dog or not? I've seen some of my (geriatric) clients just light up at his cuddling - one man just rubbed Buffy's tummy and cried with joy. Since he loves people so much, I think he'd be good. I'm just worried about him marking! Any suggestions from our resident vets?

[Tippiechick]

Originally posted by SissyC0109
DO NOT tell me to get over myself, you little rabid twit!

Many, many people may do it but that doesn't make it right. And, if you had bothered to read the OP then you would know that this is not a puppy. The dog is a year old. Yes, they often will chew things up during this stage, that's not an excuse to crate the dog up.


1) Are you a professional in the canine industry?

2) Are you a complete and utter bitch? Because, you are acting like one. Dani didn't deserve this comment. I highly suggest you reexamine your actions. Dani deserves an apology.

3) As a PROFESSIONAL in the pet industry, I can tell you that vets, groomers, breeders, traniners, handlers, etc. ALL use crate training.

Not only does a crate protect the dog from hurting itself by getting into dangerous situations (such as chewing on things it shouldn't and getting an intestinal blockage, etc.), it also gives the dog a sense of security. If you are not using a crate YOU are the sick one. A dog needs to have a safe place it can retreat to. Dogs are den dwellers by nature. Crates mimic this and often calm babies that are having a hard time staying by themselves.

While it is certainly cruel to leave a dog in a crate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week without exercise, it is equally inhumane to deprive a dog with a sense of security that a cage offers.

And, while crating is not for all dogs, it is most helpful in a lot of behavioral situations.

Sissy, you're welcome for this consultation. Most people actually pay me for such advice. I will give you this advice for free seeing as how you seem like you really need it. No thanks are needed.

[James]

Random question: When does your inability to spend time with a pet effect whether you should get a pet or what type of pet you should get?

I mean, lets say you work and live alone so your pet has to be by itself for say around ten hours. Is that good for a dog? Is that ok for a cat? You don't crate cats right?

I know most of us think: We want a pet, and then force the critter into our lifestyle, but I was wondering what our responsibility to the pet was.

I guess the person that can spend more time with a pet, or has more people in the household to spend time with the pet, is in fact a better owner? Because they can fufill the pets needs better?

[kddani]

Originally posted by Tippiechick
1) Are you a professional in the canine industry?

2) Are you a complete and utter bitch? Because, you are acting like one. Dani didn't deserve this comment. I highly suggest you reexamine your actions. Dani deserves an apology.

3) As a PROFESSIONAL in the pet industry, I can tell you that vets, groomers, breeders, traniners, handlers, etc. ALL use crate training.

Not only does a crate protect the dog from hurting itself by getting into dangerous situations (such as chewing on things it shouldn't and getting an intestinal blockage, etc.), it also gives the dog a sense of security. If you are not using a crate YOU are the sick one. A dog needs to have a safe place it can retreat to. Dogs are den dwellers by nature. Crates mimic this and often calm babies that are having a hard time staying by themselves.

While it is certainly cruel to leave a dog in a crate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week without exercise, it is equally inhumane to deprive a dog with a sense of security that a cage offers.

And, while crating is not for all dogs, it is most helpful in a lot of behavioral situations.

Sissy, you're welcome for this consultation. Most people actually pay me for such advice. I will give you this advice for free seeing as how you seem like you really need it. No thanks are needed.

Thanks Tippie, but who she really owes an apology to is texas*princess for saying those horrible things about her. I know that texas*princess loves her dog to death, and what Sissy said was wrong (as disproved by the pet care industry people posting here).

[honeychile]

Originally posted by James
Random question: When does your inability to spend time with a pet effect whether you should get a pet or what type of pet you should get?

I mean, lets say you work and live alone so your pet has to be by itself for say around ten hours. Is that good for a dog? Is that ok for a cat? You don't crate cats right?

I know most of us think: We want a pet, and then force the critter into our lifestyle, but I was wondering what our responsibility to the pet was.

I guess the person that can spend more time with a pet, or has more people in the household to spend time with the pet, is in fact a better owner? Because they can fufill the pets needs better?
Now, I'm just a random twit, but some pets are more adaptable to being alone than others. Cats easily entertain themselves, but do like their people (or staff, however you care to look at it). Some dogs like the company of other dogs, others would rather be alone, others have to have their people 24/7. I know that a lot of Bichon Frise breeders will NOT sell to someone who won't have someone home with them during the day - they can become a little neurotic. Our set up is good in that I can take Buffy to work, so the only time he's alone is when we go out to eat. My brother's Dobermans are fine alone, if they have another dog with them. So, each breed (and/or dog) is different.

[pinkiebell1001]

Ya know... after reading this thread I just feel really lucky about my dog, lol. This woman just brought him into my work one day, asking about his owner, and It was just love at first sight for both of us, lol. He just came over and snuggled up against me and that was that!
He's like...the weirdest dog ever, lol. So i guess that's why he's perfect for me! He's pretty lax about going out (a late sleeper, just like me;)) and he does pretty well with being alone -I'd never crate him; but I think it's up to the individual dog as to whether or not they need to be crated, so I see both sides there!

Now, does anyone elses dog have weird eating patterns??? Like first off, he won't eat anything "healthy" ya know what I mean??? Like...he won't go for the good stuff, like Purina and Science Diet and whatnot, lol. Nooooo...he has to pick kibbles and bits, the lucky charms of dog food, lol. And bones? Nope! Not a chewer at all, lol. Then, he only eats...every so often. Honestly, he pretty much goes through a bowl of food...pretty much in like 2 or 3 days(it's not like...a "big bowl" either)- I was worried at first, but the Vet assured me that it wasn't a big deal, especially since he's at a healthy weight, but still!
And then...the funny part. I'll put Eli's bowl in the kitchen right??? He'll grab a few bites of food, walk out of the kitchen, through the hallway and into the living room to eat, lol. Then he'll walk right back in, get more food, and do it all over again! What is up with that?:P

[georgewallace3]

Originally posted by texas*princess
Thanks for the advice everyone.

Violet is a VERY curious dog, and she also has a ton of toys, but no matter how many toys she has, she will sometimes want to chew things that are not her toys which is why I choose to crate her when I can't be home to watch her. Not only is it because I don't want her to chew something that isn't hers, but I also feel better b/c I'd hate for her to do something to hurt herself while I wasn't here.

We have been going on long walks in the evening, and she gets plenty of exercise/play time when I'm home.

Her diet has been the same - I even keep her on a regular eating schedule. I will try putting her food inside her crate and see how that goes. There is plenty of room in her new crate.

When I mentioned that she sleeps in there even when the door is closed, I meant afternoon naps on the weekends b/c I'm home all weekend so I don't crate her w/ the door closed during the day. When she's ready for a nap she will get into her crate and sleep.

Her bedding has changed. In the smaller crate she had a very fluffy blanket. In her new one, I have been using regular bed pillows and put her blanket in there w/ her. (I figured it would be more comfortable). I've bought several back-up pillows in case she has accidents so she won't be in there with a dirty one.

I've scheduled an apt Monday w/ her vet to get her checked out for any medical things that may be causing her problem.

saetx - I will NOT hit my dog, nor will I take her snout and shove it into her mess.


I.....did you read what he wrote? I think he said....."Give the dog a little swat." In no way did he say HIT the dog. Maybe you should work on those interpretation skills. I have a black and a chocolate lab and trained them the same way. They are the most well mannered well trained dogs i've ever been around.

[aggieAXO]

well I just typed a reply but it got lost so I will say in shorthand: There is no right or wrong answer as far as crating goes. If you do not crate and this works for you then great. If you have to crate to insure your pet's safety while you are away from the house then do what you need to do.
And BTW, georgewallace, I don't pretent to know it all as you say, but being in the animal industry for almost 20 years (10 years as a tech then almost 10 as a vet.) I do have some knowledge in this area. There are board certified animal behaviorists if further info is desired.

Just wondering-those that are so offended by crating did you get your pets from a breeder? Just curious.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by aggieAXO
well I just typed a reply but it got lost so I will say in shorthand: There is no right or wrong answer as far as crating goes. If you do not crate and this works for you then great. If you have to crate to insure your pet's safety while you are away from the house then do what you need to do.
And BTW, georgewallace, I don't pretent to know it all as you say, but being in the animal industry for almost 20 years (10 years as a tech then almost 10 as a vet.) I do have some knowledge in this area. There are board certified animal behaviorists if further info is desired.

Just wondering-those that are so offended by crating did you get your pets from a breeder? Just curious.

Doesn't it also depend on the breed of the animal? Just asking?

And my husband is studying for another Board exam--lab animal--the Diplomate from ACLAAM... We will be at the AVMA this year.

He wants a Rhodesian Ridgeback. Of course as a puppy. But, we don't have any land... Which means that for that kind of breed, leaving it in the house would drive it nuts, crated or not... At least that is what all the vets at Comp. Med. are telling me...

So essentially for large dogs, that have "schizophrenic tendencies", what would you advise for crating as puppies, i.e. Huskies? But what about for small dogs with open fontenelles, i.e. Chiauahuas [sp?]? Just asking?

I have never had a dog growing up because my mom was allergic to their fur. :( So I had a pet brother. :D

[epchick]

Ok..technically, what is crate-training? Is it just having a crate there? Like we bought my chihuahua Martini a "Pet Taxi" where we put his blanket and his bed in so he can sleep. But we leave the door open so he can walk out, eat his food and poop on the puppy pad. Is that considered crate-training or not?

I know that I have a problem with Martini chewing on things, but I've also learned that as long as I take everything off the floor, that he doesn't chew as much (although he LOVES to rip up his puppy pads).

Martini also does not respond to "No" or even a "bad dog." I'll say "no" and he'll duck his head down, knowing he's done something wrong, but a minute or 2 later he'll be back to doing what I told him not to---he's a typical toddler..although he's only 3 months old! lol.

My poodle (who passed away 2 1/2 years ago) was never crate-trained (nor anywhere near to it). I was only 6 when my parents bought him, so i didn't really train him. I know that my parents used the technique of sticking the dog's nose in its pee and giving it a smack. Although my poodle responded well to that, i dont advocate it, nor do i do it to my Martini (i tried it once and he cried bloody murder! lol). But like some say, it just really depends on the specific dog.

[georgewallace3]

Originally posted by aggieAXO
well I just typed a reply but it got lost so I will say in shorthand: There is no right or wrong answer as far as crating goes. If you do not crate and this works for you then great. If you have to crate to insure your pet's safety while you are away from the house then do what you need to do.
And BTW, georgewallace, I don't pretent to know it all as you say, but being in the animal industry for almost 20 years (10 years as a tech then almost 10 as a vet.) I do have some knowledge in this area. There are board certified animal behaviorists if further info is desired.

Just wondering-those that are so offended by crating did you get your pets from a breeder? Just curious.


I did get both of my dogs from a breeder....who also does not crate their dogs. They live in Highland Park....Dallas' elite neighborhood. They have sent many of their dogs to the Westminster Dog Shows.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by georgewallace3
I did get both of my dogs from a breeder....who also does not crate their dogs. They live in Highland Park....Dallas' elite neighborhood. They have sent many of their dogs to the Westminster Dog Shows.

lol @ elite neighborhood.

That is a nice neighboorhood, but I wouldn't really use "elite"

can we add this one to the prestigous thread? :p

[texas*princess]

For the animal professionals (or anyone else who might know)

What do you think about doggie day care?

I've considered it for my dog, and haven't found one that I would take my dog to, but when I do, is it recommended?

[honeychile]

Originally posted by texas*princess
For the animal professionals (or anyone else who might know)

What do you think about doggie day care?

I've considered it for my dog, and haven't found one that I would take my dog to, but when I do, is it recommended?
Is there a Happy Tails near you? It's expanding, and a reputable franchise.

Also, ask your vet. They usually have a list of the better places available.

[georgewallace3]

Originally posted by texas*princess
lol @ elite neighborhood.

That is a nice neighboorhood, but I wouldn't really use "elite"

can we add this one to the prestigous thread? :p


tell me how it is not an elite neighborhood please.....

considering that you have to pretty much be a millionaire to live their, considering the avg. cost per home is around 1.2 million $$ Yes I know this because my uncle that lives with his wife and kids is in business realestate in Dallas. Highliand Park is probobly one of the most prestigious neighborhoods in Texas. Owen Wilson, Ross Perot, Tom Hicks, Marc Cuban, Mike Modono, Waltons, Hunts, Dillards........those arent very elite names or anything.

[pinkiebell1001]

Originally posted by texas*princess
For the animal professionals (or anyone else who might know)

What do you think about doggie day care?

I've considered it for my dog, and haven't found one that I would take my dog to, but when I do, is it recommended?

I found a doggy daycare place that looked really great! I think it was on a ranch or something like that, and I considered letting my puppy stay there, but mine isn't very "social" unless it's with females, and he really prefers being around humans, so I didn't want to risk him not getting all the attention he needs. I will look around and see if i can find it though, I remember they seemed like a really great place- they even tested to make sure your dog was comfortable enough around other dogs before they'd approve you.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by pinkiebell1001
I found a doggy daycare place that looked really great! I think it was on a ranch or something like that, and I considered letting my puppy stay there, but mine isn't very "social" unless it's with females, and he really prefers being around humans, so I didn't want to risk him not getting all the attention he needs. I will look around and see if i can find it though, I remember they seemed like a really great place- they even tested to make sure your dog was comfortable enough around other dogs before they'd approve you.
Are you sure you don't have my dog? LOL


gw - "elite" has new meaning here.

[JennRN]

Originally posted by georgewallace3
tell me how it is not an elite neighborhood please.....

considering that you have to pretty much be a millionaire to live their, considering the avg. cost per home is around 1.2 million $$ Yes I know this because my uncle that lives with his wife and kids is in business realestate in Dallas. Highliand Park is probobly one of the most prestigious neighborhoods in Texas. Owen Wilson, Ross Perot, Tom Hicks, Marc Cuban, Mike Modono, Waltons, Hunts, Dillards........those arent very elite names or anything.

Actually, Ross Perot doesn't live in HP....he lives off Strait Lane, which is not in HP. Oh, and the Hunt's live in the Preston Hollow area.

And if you're going to talk about "elite" neighborhoods, add Park Cities, Preston Hollow, and ....never mind. I don't know why I'm replying to this anyways.
:rolleyes:

[pinkiebell1001]

umm...why should we care who lives in Highland Park anyways??? This is just silly, and really has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

[Tippiechick]

Sissy, I read your post. You said it was cruel to crate your dog while you are at work. When would you crate, if you don't find crating in general to be cruel? Would you confine the dog for an hour? Two? At night while you sleep? Please share some of your vast knowledge with us.

[UKTriDelt]

Originally posted by kstar
How "old school" is your vet?

I'm finishing my vet tech training, and going through the process of vet school apps. I would venture a guess that most vets trained more recently wouldn't advise this method. The dog doesn't relate the punishment with the crime, unless you caught him in the act, which is unlikely since this is while she is at work. This method called fear or aversion training, really doesn't work with canines.

Come to think of it, my vet seems to be of the old school set. He recommended declawing one of our cats, which we decided against after lots of research that told us just how bad it is for cats' mental health. Glad to know that this method isn't effective for future reference with new dogs. (now also glad that we're no longer with that vet!!)

[kstar]

Originally posted by UKTriDelt
Come to think of it, my vet seems to be of the old school set. He recommended declawing one of our cats, which we decided against after lots of research that told us just how bad it is for cats' mental health. Glad to know that this method isn't effective for future reference with new dogs. (now also glad that we're no longer with that vet!!)

I'd agree that your vet seems old school. One of the vets I had to work with was a great vet, but one day I got called into surg. to help with a declaw. I have a strong stomach, but this made me sick. And to make it worse I was on duty later that week when the cat came back in with severely infected paws. It's just a difference of where and when they went to school.

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by georgewallace3
I did get both of my dogs from a breeder....who also does not crate their dogs. They live in Highland Park....Dallas' elite neighborhood. They have sent many of their dogs to the Westminster Dog Shows.

So how many breeding animals do they have? How many litters do they have at one time? I find it hard to imagine that they let all there dogs just run around with no confinement of some sort (i would imagibe they have pens at least which would be similar to crating). BTW, my roommate from undergrad had lived in Highland Park-I guess I am just not that impressed, his family was well off but not millionare status.

[georgewallace3]

maybe they were living beyond their means. i am certain of the property values. other than that....I really don't see how you weren't impressed....kind of odd. maybe it wasn't really highland park.....or it was on the outskirts.\

they breed labs for hunting......and Cavalier King Charls Spaniels. They are all in separate areas. An no, they don't have cages....they have a monstrous mansion, and they converted a huge area of the downstairs into separate "puppy" rooms if you will.

[adpiucf]

T*P-- it sounds like Violet's new crate is a little too large for her. I ran into this same issue with Riley. I ended up crate training her in her travel crate, rather than the large crate I'd bought for this same reason.

Hindsight is 20/20-- the best thing to have done initially would have been to purchase a crate that would suit her final adult size and partition it off so she had just enough room to settle down--- slowly giving her more room as she grew. But that's in the past!

Your new crate is too large for Violet-- as long as she has enough room, she will mess on one side and stay on the clean side.

Don't feed her in the crate--- crate time is nap time and play with her favorite toy time. If she eats in the crate, she's going to have to eliminate soon after. It's ok to treat her in the crate to get her used to being in it.

Section off part of the crate with a piece of wood or plastic. Violet should have just enough to room to circle and settle down. Gradually, you may be able to give her more and more room. You may be able to slowly condiiton her to treat the crate as a sacred "no pee" zone!

It's crate training all over again. It may feel slow and tedious, but this should solve your problem. Ask your vet-- let us know how it goes!

I hope this helps! PM me-- my cocker spaniel has tested my patience in the potty training department!!!

Pi Love,
ADPiUCF

[JennRN]

Originally posted by James
Random question: When does your inability to spend time with a pet effect whether you should get a pet or what type of pet you should get?

I mean, lets say you work and live alone so your pet has to be by itself for say around ten hours. Is that good for a dog? Is that ok for a cat? You don't crate cats right?

I know most of us think: We want a pet, and then force the critter into our lifestyle, but I was wondering what our responsibility to the pet was.

I guess the person that can spend more time with a pet, or has more people in the household to spend time with the pet, is in fact a better owner? Because they can fufill the pets needs better?

I think your lifestyle definately should determine what kind of pet you get. For instance, I really wanted a dog. However, I'm at the hospital 12-14 hours a day ( a shift actually)-and I live 40 minutes from work, so it's not like I can just run home at lunch and let a dog out. My husband is gone for about 8-9 hours a day, and he's not that close to home either. I would never buy a dog, and make him sit inside in a crate for that amount of time-I'd feel too badly about it. ( Not saying crating is bad, I'm saying I would feel bad leaving an animal in a crate for that long).

So, we have 2 cats-they're fairly self sufficient, have run of the house, and have food and water sitting out for them when they need it.

I don't know that I'm not a better owner for pets than someone who is home all day-or a worse owner at that-I just realized what my limitations are, and what kind of animal fits into my life.

[Optimist Prime]

I want a puppy. I'm getting a Beagle puppy soon.

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

You know what? Why don't you shut your piehole.

-- We were overdue for a little more venom in this thread

[Lindz928]

I crate-trained my little Chihuahua, and then moved her from the crate to a gated kitchen when I was gone. Now, after 3 years, we have gotten used to each other's schedules and I am able to leave her out all day while I am at work. She knows that she goes outside as soon as I wake up, and as soon as I get home, and again before bed. She rarely has accidents anymore. And she also still has her own little "bed", so she feels comfortable.

She is also one of those dogs who LOVES her crate (I can't bring myself to call it a cage). She has a traveling crate now, and if I leave it out for her, she will just go hang out in there whenever she feels like having quiet time. She is wonderful.


And GW, just being from Highland Park does not automatically make someone a good or reputable breeder. :rolleyes:

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by Lindz928


And GW, just being from Highland Park does not automatically make someone a good or reputable breeder. :rolleyes:

Exactly! Plus, I can't believe that Highland Park would not put a limit on the number of pets you can have. They are probably in violation of the city code running a breeding facility out of their "mansion".

Sine they breed Cavalier King Charles do they have a cardiologist screen all their breeding stock and puppies? Also, are their labs OFA certified?

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
Doesn't it also depend on the breed of the animal? Just asking?

And my husband is studying for another Board exam--lab animal--the Diplomate from ACLAAM... We will be at the AVMA this year.

He wants a Rhodesian Ridgeback. Of course as a puppy. But, we don't have any land... Which means that for that kind of breed, leaving it in the house would drive it nuts, crated or not... At least that is what all the vets at Comp. Med. are telling me...

So essentially for large dogs, that have "schizophrenic tendencies", what would you advise for crating as puppies, i.e. Huskies? But what about for small dogs with open fontenelles, i.e. Chiauahuas [sp?]? Just asking?

I have never had a dog growing up because my mom was allergic to their fur. :( So I had a pet brother. :D

Most crating I deal with is for large breed dogs/puppies, I rarely have clients that crate their yorkies or chihuahuas. As a puppy the small breeds need to eat frequently so make sure if they are crated to include food and water in the crate so they can snack all day and avoid hypoglycemia.

I went to AVMA last year in Minnesota. The meeting was ok but not alot of useful info for EC vets. This year I will be attending the VECCS meeting in April which is a carribean cruise-this should be lots of fun.

One of the doctors I work with breeds Rhodesians. I don't particularly like breeding or breeders but she is a responsible one and her dogs are well manored, OFA registered and well cared for. Pm me if you would like more info.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by aggieAXO
I would not recommend these places for a puppy under 4-6 months of age as even if fully vaccinated I have had puppies contract parvo virus.

Parvo is really bad out here too... Why is it so abundant? I cannot get a straight answer from my husband...

Also what are the SOP's when bird flu (H5N1 strain--I think) "flies over to America"?

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by georgewallace3
I did get both of my dogs from a breeder....who also does not crate their dogs.

The fact that anybody is breeding dogs is more offensive than crate training could ever be. There, I said it. Bring the wrath.

[georgewallace3]

Originally posted by valkyrie
The fact that anybody is breeding dogs is more offensive than crate training could ever be. There, I said it. Bring the wrath.


I am not going to say anything other than you are an idiot, and that might be the most moronic statement I have ever heard.

[georgewallace3]

Originally posted by aggieAXO
Exactly! Plus, I can't believe that Highland Park would not put a limit on the number of pets you can have. They are probably in violation of the city code running a breeding facility out of their "mansion".

Sine they breed Cavalier King Charles do they have a cardiologist screen all their breeding stock and puppies? Also, are their labs OFA certified?


yes yes and yes to everything....our breeders for our Cavaliers are Mary Grace and Ted Eubank.....you can look them up if you would like......I am not giong to waste my time with you

[texas*princess]

Do we really need to be name-calling?

I really just want to talk about doggie day cares and potty issues!

:p

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by georgewallace3
I am not giong to waste my time with you

Oh darn, I should be only so lucky to spend time speaking to you:rolleyes: .

Parvo virus is a very hardy virus and can survive up to 1 year in the environment and is very contagious. While the vaccine is recommended, It is not 100% effective (no vaccine is but it seems when dogs are vaccinated against distemper or rabies they usually will not come down with these viruses but I don't always feel this way with parvo as have had some puppies become infected despite current vaccine status-this usually only applies to puppies, I rarely have adults come down with parvo).

As far as avian flu goes-I leave that up to the CDC vets and public health veterinarians. I don't typically treat chickens (or other birds, though had to treat a rooster last night b/c he had been tazered by the cops in east Austin b/c he attacked them).

[georgewallace3]

Sorry, I had a bad night......where in Austin do you live? And do you take care of dogs at all?? I was being a jerk, so I feel hypocritical asking, but I am moving to Austin for Law School at UT and I am bringing my Black Lab and my Catahoula Leopard with me......both are 4 months old. I definitely need to find a Vet, and I don't know of any in Austin. I have an apartment already on 5th St. right down from the bars on 6th St. (good location, im psyched).

Thanks for any help...

[aggieAXO]

no problem. I work at an emergency clinic so you proabbly don't want to see me unless you have to (we don't do routine care). I can PM you with recommended day clinics later but first I need to get some sleep as I just got off work and am tired.

[georgewallace3]

nice....I just need to find a good vet for normal care.

[Lindz928]

Originally posted by georgewallace3
nice....I just need to find a good vet for normal care.

The vet I go to is I BELIEVE called Northwest Hills Pet Clinic. They are in the Spicewood Springs/MOPAC area. I don't know about their records or their reputation with other vets, but they have taken very good care of my little dog when she got sick, they are very very nice, and my dog seems to like all of them very much.

I don't know what value all that has to you, but it's the only vet I know of in Austin and I like them. :)

[texas*princess]

Good news!

My baby has been checked out by the vet, and it didnt seem like there were any medical issues.

For the past couple of days I have been feeding her inside her new crate. I am keeping to her regular feeding schedule/amount, I just placed the food bowl inside her crate & leave the door open. When it is empty, I leave the bowl inside the crate.

This morning I put a bunch of her toys next to the bowl, and together this takes up a bunch of room. Violet stayed in her new house today and had NO ACCIDENTS!

I'm going to keep this up to see if this does the trick!

[pinkiebell1001]

YAY!!!! Congrats!

[aggieAXO]

TP,
I am glad there were no medical issues:)

Georgewallace I sent you a PM

[texas*princess]

Day #2... still no accidents!

I'm so excited!

[honeychile]

Did Violet get Buffy's Valentine? He left a cute little message for her on Dogster.

Congratulations on Day #2, btw!

[pinkiebell1001]

Ugh...so my dog is becoming incredibly unperfect! First off, a few days ago he chewed through all of my cable cords right? Then, Dad let him out of my room (which is where he stays during the day, and is usually great!) well, he then broke into my dad's bathroom, went into his room, ate 2/3 a bag of chocolate (including the foil) and chips ahoy (he's ok though, luckily)! Well, then to top it off, he crapped on the floor. So sure, I can let it go I guess, but I come home today, and I am just SHOCKED at what I've found! First off, he chewed through my cords AGAIN! THEN, and this is the kicker! He's broken my blinds, and on top of that, and I am completely seriously, he scratched the wall around the window to the point that it will have to be replastered around the edge-keep in mind i live in an apt! ! (I am SO not kidding). I just don't know what to do! I mean, nothing's changed really. Still giving him lots of attention, food, water, and he runs around alot, so I just don't know what the problem is! Anyways, this time is pretty much the last straw. We'll be getting him a crate this week, and if that doesn't work, I'm going to have to give him up I just CAN'T deal with it ya know?? I'm like..seriously bawling because I just can't handle this! I mean, shitting on the floor is one thing, but ruining my walls???

So first off, any ideas? secondly, anyone know how to plaster walls?

[pinkiebell1001]

sorry for the double post, but I thought I'd post a pic of the damage, so that maybe someone could help me figure out what to do! lol


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/pinkiebell/111392576133_290.jpg

[epchick]

First of all, did you take him to the vet for eating chocolate? I do know that chocolate is deadly to dogs....i just don't know how much they have to eat before it becomes hazardous.

I went to the vet to talk to them about Martini's chewing problem, the only thing the vet said was to teach him what is bad to eat and what is good---which, IMO, is the stupidest thing the vet said. I've been doing it and it doesnt work.

He also said to get some spray that leaves a bad smell and bad taste to the dogs, and that deters them from eating it. I don't know if it will work for your dog, you could try it.

[pinkiebell1001]

Yep-and he's fine, except his crap is a little off from his normal color. The thing is, he's not a chewer. He doesn't play with toys, he RARELY eats rawhide (and he's incredibly picky if he does), he's just...very weird. Im afraid that this is all because he's just lonely, but I give him tons of attention, treats, and usually he's fine! It's very out of the blue, that's what I dont get. Im going to try and let him be able to roam around the house tomorrow, hopefully that'll help some, because I REALLY don't want to crate him!

[Tom Earp]

Be a Pimpette, god get Him some sex! He is a He, He has to get the ease of the Labido!;) :D

If I was living with you and not gatting any, I would do the same thing!;)

[texas*princess]

Is he a small dog? Some smaller breeds get seperation anxiety from being away from their people.

How old is he again? He could be teething which is causing him to want to chew everything he sees.

That spray that someone else mentioned works really well - at least it did with Violet when she was a lot smaller. The one I used was called Bitter Apple. It doesn't smell bad to humans, but most dogs don't like it. I would spray it on my socks because Violet used to want to chew my feet when I was sitting on the sofa. Some breeds (like golden retrievers for example) LOVE that Bitter Apple stuff, so just use it with caution.

I would also recommend obedience class. Violet went to puppy school and she learned the basic commands, but usually the dog trainers will also help you with other problems one-on-one if you have questions (like excessive barking, chewing, digging, etc.). It's good to go through the basic stuff because your dogs learn to listen to you.

[polosandpearls]

I've been reading this site, but I had to post because no one realizes this guy has made 2 names but has trouble with keeping his stories separate.

Originally posted by saetex
I have a black lab and a catahoula leaopard hound, both for hunting, that I raised myself...at a very young age from the breeder.....5 weeks.

Originally posted by georgewallace3
[B] I am moving to Austin for Law School at UT and I am bringing my Black Lab and my Catahoula Leopard with me......both are 4 months old. I definitely need to find a Vet, and I don't know of any in Austin. I have an apartment already on 5th St. right down from the bars on 6th St. (good location, im psyched).


Well, you already live in Austin.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by georgewallace3
I.....did you read what he wrote? I think he said....."Give the dog a little swat." In no way did he say HIT the dog. Maybe you should work on those interpretation skills. I have a black and a chocolate lab and trained them the same way. They are the most well mannered well trained dogs i've ever been around.

What "he" wrote? Are you having an identity crisis? :eek:

Originally posted by georgewallace3
I did get both of my dogs from a breeder....who also does not crate their dogs. They live in Highland Park....Dallas' elite neighborhood. They have sent many of their dogs to the Westminster Dog Shows.

HP is a very nice neighborhood but to say all millionaires live there is stretching the truth, don't you think? It's the value of the land, some of the structures there are actually worth very little but you tack on where it's located and the size of your property and that's what makes it what it is. Please refrain from acting like you know everything because you don't. I doubt you're a SAE from UT. Oh, and the areas surrounding HP are very nice as well, you shouldn't discount them.

SAETEX, GEORGEWALLACE, UTSAE, get a life. Save yourself embarassment and try not to create another screen name. :rolleyes:

(I thought Ross Perot has a house off of Inwood?)

texas*princess, sorry to take away from your thread but this guy is a loser!:p

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by polosandpearls
I've been reading this site, but I had to post because no one realizes this guy has made 2 names but has trouble with keeping his stories separate.





Well, you already live in Austin.:rolleyes:



What "he" wrote? Are you having an identity crisis? :eek:



HP is a very nice neighborhood but to say all millionaires live there is stretching the truth, don't you think? It's the value of the land, some of the structures there are actually worth very little but you tack on where it's located and the size of your property and that's what makes it what it is. Please refrain from acting like you know everything because you don't. I doubt you're a SAE from UT. Oh, and the areas surrounding HP are very nice as well, you shouldn't discount them.

SAETEX, GEORGEWALLACE, UTSAE, get a life. Save yourself embarassment and try not to create another screen name. :rolleyes:

(I thought Ross Perot has a house off of Inwood?)

texas*princess, sorry to take away from your thread but this guy is a loser!:p

Holy Stuff!:eek:

Okay Sherlock, I like Your style.

PM Me if You Must, I like Your Deductive Reasoning and Investiviaging powers!

Will be interesting on what comes up on this posting and see what happens!:D

[pinkiebell1001]

He's like a mutt, and I'm sure it was somewhat separation anxiety, but I don't really know what I can do about it! He's 4, and he's fully trained (I couldnt have a dog that wasn't ya know? Especially since I live in an apt!). His problem really isn't chewing (and trust me, sprays will NOT keep him from my cords, he's pretty determined, lol), it's just him wanting to be a little pain in the ass, honestly, lol. The cords aren't really a big deal-I can always just unplug them when I leave. My concern is that I plan to move out in 6 months, and I REALLY don't want to have to pay 2000 dollars for broken walls! I mean, can you IMAGINE?!

[aggieAXO]

Yes, I believe George is having an identity crisis.

[aggieAXO]

Ask your vet about prozac or clomicalm-both can be used to treat separation anxiety. One of my friends who is also a vet had yo place her weimaraner (who is a freak as most weimys are) on clomicalm and it worked well (he was about 8 months old when she had to place him on it).

[honeychile]

aggieAXO, what do you think about SockPuppet's Chill Pills? We tried one once on our 17# Bichon Frise, and were just a little worried if they were any good for him or not.

If they are, he gets to go to more places!

[aggieAXO]

HC,

I have no idea what that is-need more info to form an opinion.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by aggieAXO
HC,

I have no idea what that is-need more info to form an opinion.
Honestly, there is a brand called Sock Puppet! They make treats, some other things, and the Chill Pills. They're to help your dog through anxious moments, such as long drives or an allergy itch. I'll have to get the label tomorrow, so you can analyze the ingredients. I know we only gave Buffy half a pill (for an allergy; the vet was telling us to give him half of a children's benedryl), and he was out for the count within an hour!