PDA

View Full Version : KSK at Harding hazers "disbanded"


hoosier
11-17-2005, 03:08 PM
Harding inquiry settled


Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:23 PM CST


Student club disbanded for misconduct
By Philip Holsinger

The Daily Citizen
Harding University officials do not know whether or not a group of students took part in illegal hazing activities, officials say, but they have decided to take disciplinary action against the students for breaking the school’s code of conduct.

Following a week-long investigation into allegations that university students had participated in hazing activities as part of student club pledge week at Harding, officials declared they had disbanded one of Harding’s student social clubs.
Hazing is against Arkansas state law.

In a press release sent out Wednesday, Harding spokesperson David Crouch wrote that the university has formally disbanded the student social club Kappa Sigma Kappa (known commonly as Sigs) for engaging in “inappropriate behavior and activities that violated the university’s student code of conduct.”
An investigation was opened into the matter last week after the Dean of Student Services, David Collins, was informed of possible hazing activities taking part on campus.

During student club pledge week, club members and pledges participate in events and activities that mirror the events of fraternities and sororities across the nation.
In an earlier Daily Citizen article published Nov. 13, a Harding student claiming to be a member of the club Pai Kappa Epsilon (known as Pikes) claimed not only that he was a member of the club, but that Pai Kappa Epsilon was the club under investigation. The university had not released the name of the club under investigation at that time.
Neither was this student a member of the club, nor was he right in what club was being investigated.
The now disbanded Kappa Sigma Kappa had been on probation since last year and had received disciplinary action before, Crouch said Wednesday.
According to statements issued by Dean of Student Services David Collins, through a letter from Crouch, this recent wrong-doing “was an isolated incident during this year’s club induction week.”
No criminal complaint has been filed with local police or with campus security in the matter, Crouch said again Wednesday. According the Crouch press release, “We, Harding Administrators, can’t speak as to whether or not the club’s behavior is hazing as derived by Arkansas state statutes.”
Crouch did not know how many students were being disciplined or by what measure their discipline would be meted out.
“Harding has long held the policy of not releasing the names of students involved in disciplinary actions, nor doe the university release the circumstances of alleged misconduct,” Crouch said.

PsychTau2
11-17-2005, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by hoosier
During student club pledge week, club members and pledges participate in events and activities that mirror the events of fraternities and sororities across the nation.


Actually.... unless things have drastically changed recently, their pledge week is full of activities that are considered hazing, including dressing up in weird costumes/not changing clothes the entire week, carrying stuff around, late night scavenger hunts.

And before we start debating whether or not those activites are all that bad...you have to know that this school sees GLOs as evil and demeaning and elitist, and the Pledge Week (totally overseen and supported by the school admins) gives everyone a chance to be equal and to participate in something better than those National Greek orgs could ever offer. :rolleyes: (Remember, this was in the early 90's...admin may have changed).

And what's up with the Greek letter names? In the 90's the names weren't Greek letters (I don't think they were allowed to be)...I knew people in Kingsman, Sub T-16, and one group that had a Japanese name that I can't remember. There were more, but I don't think any of them were Greek names.

I'd like to see how the Pledge Week activites compare to the AR state hazing law.

PsychTau

ETA: Obviously I don't view Harding in a favorable light. I'm not trying to offend any Harding students or alums...but I just don't like the place.

lifesaver
11-18-2005, 02:33 AM
KSK???

Sounds made up to me. Are they sure they were a real fraternity?

Sorry I dont know these things. I'm in a top ten group. I only know us (top ten) and the NPC & NPHC groups. The rest are too many to keep up with. I just assume the rest are made up if I havent ever met a real one.

I'm an asshole like that, but its OK.

FSUZeta
11-18-2005, 07:20 AM
it never ceases to amaze me that colleges that will not allow national greek organizations who have guidelines, rules and consequences and local advisors, will allow local groups who answer to no one.

33girl
11-18-2005, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by FSUZeta
it never ceases to amaze me that colleges that will not allow national greek organizations who have guidelines, rules and consequences and local advisors, will allow local groups who answer to no one.

Correction. They have to answer to the college.

If the college gets a burr up their butt and decides that ABC has done something wrong, whether they have or not, they can kick them off campus. ABC has no national group to go to, no national alumnae, no recourse unless they have lots of rich alums who donate a lot and threaten to withhold donations.

If XYZ has lots of rich alums that donate all the time, they can be screwing a goat in the quad and stay on campus, because they have no national org that will discipline them.

PhoenixAzul
11-18-2005, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by 33girl
Correction. They have to answer to the college.

If the college gets a burr up their butt and decides that ABC has done something wrong, whether they have or not, they can kick them off campus. ABC has no national group to go to, no national alumnae, no recourse unless they have lots of rich alums who donate a lot and threaten to withhold donations.



Exactly. Our charter is held by the college. While it means that we may not be disbanded for low numbers, we can still be disbanded really at the university's whim. Most infractions are dealt with through Greek Governance, but the university can and has overridden UGGB decisions (made punishments more severe).

it never ceases to amaze me that colleges that will not allow national greek organizations who have guidelines, rules and consequences and local advisors, will allow local groups who answer to no one.

and it never ceases to amaze me that national greek organizations have these rules and still violate them.

The reason we are here is that our clubs are very tightly tied to the history of our college. Our members are literally the founding pillars of Otterbein. We take our traditions and our responsibility very seriously. To say that we answer to no one is wrong, we answer to a very long list of Panhellenic alumns, our own exec boards, advisors, college admin, and Greek admin. We have plenty to lose, not the least of which is the trust and respect of our alumni (who can also chose to disband us).

And to be honest, if we DID import national orgs to replace our groups, I think membership would die out due to the cost and the lack of alumn support here. Our Alumni come back to their fraternities and their sororities and sing the same chants, with the same letters, year after year. We have a picture of a 103 year old founding sister in our house. The history of Tau Delta is there, and it has been for 85+ years, and it will remain there for another 85+ years, with its own governance, because our sorority and our Greek system can stand alone as it has since before we were Greek lettered.

Koinoinia
11-21-2005, 01:42 AM
KSK is a real club. I am a student at Harding..

KSK are the english letters that stand for Kappa Sigma Kappa... and harding has always had clubs that use greek letters... there are the clubs with the japanese names still (ju go ju and Ko Jo Kai -- girls' clubs)
Sub-T 16 and Kings Men are still around, too.. but there are (and always have been) clubs that use greek letters..

I personally am glad that Kappa Swigs was disbanded.. they were not on the top of my list of good guys. anyway..

By the way... you should probably ask someone who knows about the school before you spread misinformation... not that I really care, but some people are jerks when it comes to factual info...

have any questions? feel free to ask me.

**edit** and in the original post... PIKES is not "pai kappa epsilon".. it's just PI kappa epsilon for future reference. :)

PsychTau2
11-21-2005, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Koinoinia
(ju go ju and Ko Jo Kai -- girls' clubs)

Ju go ju....I know someone in that group as well, but couldn't think of the name for it!!

By the way... you should probably ask someone who knows about the school before you spread misinformation... not that I really care, but some people are jerks when it comes to factual info...

If you're referring to me...I dated a Sub T brother...he joined in the early 90's though, and my information comes from his experiences (and the Ju go ju member told me some things as well), so if things have changed since his pledge week...good job!! Glad to see things are moving forward there.

What groups are there?

PsychTau

Koinoinia
11-21-2005, 12:47 PM
Sub-T was almost disbanded because they got so small, but some guys from other clubs (Pi Kappa Epsilon, TNT and TITANS) jumped to save them. So I have heard that with different kinds of guys in it, Sub-T has changed. I have also heard that Sub-T used to be full of jerks...
--------------
Guys Clubs
--------------
*Titans
*Pi Kappa Epsilon
*TNT
*Kings Men
*Gamma Sigma Phi
*Theta Psi Kappa (formerly Kappa Gamma Beta or KGB)
*Beta Omega Chi
*Chi Lambda Chi
*Seminoles
*Theta Nu Xi
*Chi Sigma Alpha
*Alpha Tau Epsilon
*Delta Chi Delta
*Knights
*Sub-T 16
----------------
Girls Clubs
----------------
*Shantih
*Regina
*Iota Chi
*Chi Omega Pi
*Chi Kappa Rho
*Zeta Rho
*Ju Go Ju
*Ko Jo Kai
*GATA
*Delta Gamma Rho
*Iota Chi
*Kappa Gamma Epsilon
*OEGE
*Omega Lambda Chi
*Pi Theta Phi
*Tri Kappa (recently disbanded around the same time as their brother club Kappa Sigma Kappa, but because of size, not hazing possibilities)

And, no, I wasn't really aiming that statement at you or anyone else that has posted here... since you kind of know what you are talking about... but some people think they know what Harding and it's clubs are all about and they have no clue.. and they would rather spread rumors than actually ask someone who knows what is going on. :)

preciousjeni
11-21-2005, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Koinoinia
*Theta Nu Xi :) Boy Theta Nu Xis!!

PhrozenGod01
11-21-2005, 03:07 PM
*Tri Kappa (recently disbanded around the same time as their brother club Kappa Sigma Kappa, but because of size, not hazing possibilities)

Tri Kappa? WTF???

PsychTau2
11-21-2005, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Koinoinia
I have also heard that Sub-T used to be full of jerks...

Well...he did cheat on me...:mad: :rolleyes: but then I met my husband so it's all good! I do remember seeing his organization yearbook picture being taken in front of the White County Detention Center....

I also remember hearing something about a Tri Kappa there and I always thought that was a little odd...why would a school like Harding allow one of it's clubs to have a name like that? Especially with the Klan's historical ties to northern Arkansas.

Are the Greek lettered clubs newer? I don't remember there being quite that many in the 90's (but I may have forgotten a lot of details...)

PsychTau

AlphaFrog
11-21-2005, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by PhrozenGod01
Tri Kappa? WTF???

Oh god...not this again...

Yes there are groups that are Tri-Kappa, and no they are not part of the Ku Klux Klan.

PhrozenGod01
11-21-2005, 10:43 PM
Oh god...not this again...

Yes there are groups that are Tri-Kappa, and no they are not part of the Ku Klux Klan.


I know. But unless the group was founded before 1867, it just makes sense to picture what that looks like on a sweatshirt when planning everything. Either way, I just wanted to say something. I haven't said anything in a while. To be honest, I never heard of Harding until I got on GC. I'm not fuming mad, just shaking my head in sarcasm.

33girl
11-22-2005, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by PhrozenGod01
I know. But unless the group was founded before 1867, it just makes sense to picture what that looks like on a sweatshirt when planning everything.

I think you mean after. Sorority ladies didn't wear sweatshirts in 1867. :)

KerriMarie
11-22-2005, 08:12 AM
No, I think they meant before.... Like, if Tri-Kappa was founded BEFORE the KKK (I'm assuming that's what 1867 was - the founding date of the Klan?) then it's all good, but if they founded AFTER the Klan they should have thought about wearing KKK letters.

AlphaFrog
11-22-2005, 08:36 AM
I think the point was WEARING letters is a relativly recent thing. I don't think our founders ever WORE letters.

DeltAlum
11-22-2005, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I think the point was WEARING letters is a relativly recent thing. I don't think our founders ever WORE letters.
That's probably true, but I guess you need to define "recent." I've seen some fairly old pictures of students wearing Greek letters.

AlphaFrog
11-22-2005, 11:44 AM
Recent = NOT 1867

Koinoinia
11-22-2005, 05:04 PM
No Tri-Kappa has nothing to do with the KKK... although it has stopped a few people from Joining...

The members have been wanting to change the name for a few years, but since it is being disbanded we don't see the reason anymore, you know? I really don't think people thought of the KKK when they were naming Tri-Kappa. Tri-Kappa just sounds cool.. no one really calls it KKK or Kappa Kappa Kappa, unless they are making fun of it..lol..

Their motto is "Sisters of the Key"... I have always assumed that the Kappas stood for three different keys.. Key to sisterhood, Key of ______, and Key to _________.

anyway...

I didn't know that Theta Nu Xi was a Muticultural Sorority... interesting. :-) ONE .. that is nice.

preciousjeni
11-22-2005, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Koinoinia
I didn't know that Theta Nu Xi was a Muticultural Sorority... interesting. :-) ONE .. that is nice. I know the men's club was just founded in the spring of this year. I ALSO know that when naming new clubs, students should NOT use the names of existing national organizations. What happened?

navane
11-22-2005, 08:59 PM
You've got to be kidding me!!!!! Since when did we have a bazillion people (read: three) on GC who know about Harding University and/or Searcy?!?!

My grandparents retired to Searcy from Chicago and lived there over 20 years - I've been to Harding more times than I can count. My grandfather actually lived in the "Harding Place" retirement home located on campus.

For what it's worth, I always thought the social clubs seemed a little unusual (for the lack of a better word). It seemed like the university didn't want to students to participate in fraternities and sororities, yet allowed them to have these "social clubs" which operated just like fraternities and sororities. But hey, I didn't attend Harding so I can't really say....

......Kelly :)

Koinoinia
11-22-2005, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by preciousjeni
I know the men's club was just founded in the spring of this year. I ALSO know that when naming new clubs, students should NOT use the names of existing national organizations. What happened?

I have no clue... hmm.. I will look into that (talk to a few people from the club, and the head of the club process)...



Personally, I am not into the whole club thing.. At least, I do not understand Harding's clubs. Harding is a private Christian university and I would think that clubs are kind of against some of our .... teachings?... Well.. at least the Animal House view of a fraternity/sorority... But I am a Queen for a mens' club, so I guess I really can't say much.. Although, I can promise you that the club I am a queen for isn't the typical mens' club (as viewed through some of my friends' frats/sororities)... at least from what I have seen. My Guys don't have keggers. They don't try to sleep with as many girls as possible... and we recently had pledge week and they didn't do anything Harding would consider bad... But I cannot speak for all the mens' clubs on campus... I am sure that there are something things going on "behind Harding's back" ... I've heard the stories.

PhrozenGod01
11-23-2005, 01:14 PM
I remember that Mad TV sketch with Kappa Kappa Kappa. It was funny. That poor, hapless pledge... oh yeah, and I know a girl from Searcy. She goes to Baylor now. Alright, I'm done with the angry rants. Stay up.

Koinoinia
11-23-2005, 07:42 PM
I am honestly not angry at all.. I never liked Kappa Sigma Kappa... they got on my nerves.. well most of them did.. there were one or two good guys... And if I offended anyone or made anyone mad, it was unintentional. I just wanted to come onto this forum and inform others about Harding and our social clubs (at least what I know of it).

My apologies if I did offend. :)

As ^^that^^ person said... Y'all stay up.

I will answer questions if anyone has any...

Tripod 3
11-25-2005, 09:09 PM
I think it needs to be made clear that Harding, although a fine university, certainly plays under different rules than most state universities. Koinoinia, I'm sure you are simply expressing your feelings, however, I feel you are not very accurate or showing your fellow Christian students much respect. Although Sigs may have had a reputation of being more on the party side of Harding, I know many current Sigs and former Sigs that have made life-long friendships through the club and its activities. In a report on the Little Rock news station, one former Sig made a statement that seems to fit this situation well. He said, "If Jesus was a student at Harding, He would have been kicked out a long time ago." Harding simply plays under its own sense of morality. Forgiveness, in most situations, is few and far between. To those that belong to actual Greek fratenities and sororities, please do not look at this situation, or comments about this situation, with disdain. Although social clubs at Harding use greek lettes for club names, they do not represent anything greek. Nor does Harding accept or allow greek organization.
I think Harding, and it appears many of its current students, needs to get a grip on what they want to represent to the rest of the college community. Specifically, kicking people out of school, disbaning social clubs, or regulating rules that are ridiculous for anyone to follow, is simply starting cast an evil light on what is essentially a great university. I hope God has a little more forgiveness than is expressed at Harding.

So, just so you know, my wife was a "queen" for Sigs during a very difficult time at Harding. It was that group of guys that both of us owe a lot of gratitude to. We have maintained life long friendships with many of the guys, who although not perfect (who is?), still have compassion and show a true spirit. Honestly, the Sigs at Harding, probably showed more of greek spirit than any other club at Harding. For that, they should be commended. Good luck Sigs, in all you do.

Former Harding student, Sig friend.

preciousjeni
11-25-2005, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Tripod 3
He said, "If Jesus was a student at Harding, He would have been kicked out a long time ago." I would venture to say this is true of ALL Christian colleges and universities in this country. :(

PhoenixAzul
11-25-2005, 11:05 PM
To those that belong to actual Greek fratenities and sororities, please do not look at this situation, or comments about this situation, with disdain. Although social clubs at Harding use greek lettes for club names, they do not represent anything greek.

what is your definition of "Actual"?

33girl
11-26-2005, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by PhoenixAzul
what is your definition of "Actual"?

I believe "we only use Greek letters because they fit on a shirt but we really just pulled them out of the air and we're nothing like those terrible national fraternities and sororities except for exactly."

LOL.

Tripod 3
11-26-2005, 12:55 PM
My definition would be that a society of people, usually oraganized at a college or university, that shares in social and/or business related activities. These groups have organziation that goes above and beyond the university level. Often members can continue in these activities even after graduation. These groups have tradition, thrive on life-long friendships, and are organized for a purpose.

Social clubs at Harding, although similar, fail to meet some of the these criteria. The university does not allow social groups to be organized beyond the university level. This whole story cast a very poor light on what is a great school. And I just want to make sure everyone know that the "Sigs" at Harding were a great group of guys and this "hazing" incident is probably nothing like you would expect it to be. It's all pretty ridiculous and I certainly just want to help represent an overall great group of people. Thanks.

Koinoinia
11-26-2005, 07:16 PM
First thing is, Tripod 3, we come from different times.. I am at Harding now, you are not. I know a lot of these guys. I see who they are outside and inside of the school... I see who they are during stupid club sports and during chapel. I may fail to represent all of them accurately, but I did say... I never liked Kappa Sigma Kappa... they got on my nerves.. well most of them did.. there were one or two good guys... And if I offended anyone or made anyone mad, it was unintentional. I just wanted to come onto this forum and inform others about Harding and our social clubs (at least what I know of it).

The other thing is... they knew the rules before pledge week. They knew that if they did something against Harding rules, they would get reprimanded for it. And if very few of the members were involved, they should have had more respect for the rest of their brothers and refrained from things they knew Harding would consider hazing.

Anyway. You have a right to your opinion, Tripod 3.

Tripod 3
11-27-2005, 12:05 AM
Thank you for your reply. You are showing exactly to me what is still wrong with Harding. Which is that despite being a Christian university still has many people that fail to show a Christian attitude. It is much easier for Harding to disband the Sigs than it is to show forgiveness and understanding that true Christians have to the rest of the world. And you my dear, do you really know the young men involved? Enough to call them jerks? Or did you make a judgement based upon appearences and quick actions? It truly is a shame. I hope Harding gets it straight by the time my kids are college age. Oh, and by the way, regardless of when I was there, the view of the Kappa Sigs has always been the same. So, don't tell me I don't know what is going on there. Thanks. God bless you and all the Harding students.

Koinoinia
11-27-2005, 09:16 PM
I know that an african american guy tried to pledge them and received a bid. On the day that pledges were to pick up their bids, the PRESIDENT of kappa sigs called him and told him not to accept the bid. The guy that this happened to is a good guy--he didn't deserve to be treated like this.

Don't presume to know me, Tripod 3. That was wrong of the president and I have seen other Kappa Sigs members do things quite similar to this particular incident. The biggest reason that I refer to them as jerks is that I have seen so many acts of racism from several of their members--a few things have happened to some of my closest friends. You and I have witnessed different situations. You may be friends with some of them, but at this particular time, the rumors of Kappa Sigma Kappa happen to be true. And in this case, you really DON'T know what's going on. I did say that there were one or two nice guys in the club, but from what I know of the majority of the club, they are jerks.

I never said we shouldn't forgive the people that have done things to give the club a bad name. And yes, disbanding them was the right option for Harding. The rules are:

"When it appears a rule of conduct or procedure, in the case of an individual or social
club, has been broken, the director of student life along with the office of the assistant
vice-president/dean of students shall conduct an investigation. If, as a result of the
investigation, they determine that disciplinary procedures are warranted, the student or
social club will be asked to appear before this staff. After the meeting, the student or
social club will be informed in writing of the specific charge(s) being made, the penalty
imposed and the right to an appeal before the Student Services Committee.
DISCIPLINARY SANCTIONS
Any or all of the following can be imposed for a given infraction:
1. Warning: a written or verbal reprimand.
2. Disciplinary Probation: probation for a specified period of time. It may carry with
it other conditions to be met (e.g., restriction of participation in club sports,
functions or other activities).
3. Special Action: designed to enhance the educational intent of the disciplinary
process. Examples include: fines, community service, etc.
4. Suspension of some or all club activities for the remainder of the semester or
remainder of the year. For flagrant violations, violations after warnings or
multiple violations.
5. Disbandment of club: for high-handed and repeat offenders, despite disciplinary
warnings."

They knew the rules... they are in the rule book... And at this point in time the members of the club and the deans know more about the situation than either of us, Tripod 3. So get over your "what is wrong with Harding" mindset and think about the situation.... there is so much you don't understand. Honestly. And insulting me won't make you any happier, because I really do not care what you have to say about me.

Thank YOU!
God Bless You.

~Koinonia (yes I mistyped when I created this account)

(KOINONIA means Christian fellowship or communion with God or with fellow Christians; said in particular of the early Christian community... incase you wondered)

Tripod 3
11-28-2005, 03:28 AM
Koinonia,

Trust me, I do not presume to know anyone. However, it does appear that you presume to know the quality of the people associated with the Sigs. So as not to digress any further...I'll leave you to live with your own judgement.

To get back on point, you have included the rules that Harding has set up for "hazing" activities. These are the types of rules that exactly make my point. My point is that Harding, while trying to be a Christian university, is extremely strict! Trust me, I have seen the university expell people for very dumb reasons. And while I do not know exactly what happened in this situation, will anyone ever know?, Harding's track record is not very stellar. I truly hope that a forgiving spirit returns to that school very soon. We certainly can all represent a Christian spirit better than Harding has.

I thank you very much for your opinion. I truly hope you enjoy your time at Harding. It is a great school. However, I hope the school can be a better repesentitive of Christianity to the college community. I don't think in any of my comments I truly insulted you. If that is what you gathered from my comments, than I am sorry. It certainly was not my intention to insult you. But, I feel that in this situation and in many others I've seen and been in at Harding, the school can do a better job at represent Christ. "He who has no sin..."

Please, keep me informed of the situation there. Although, from what I currently know, I disagree with your opinion, this does not mean that my opinion wouldn't change. And certainly, no one should every get over there "what is wrong with Harding" mindset. To make the university great, it should be constantly evaluated. Am I right?

So, with all that being said, nothing about this situation makes me happy. Obviously, the club did something that wasn't on the mark. And certainly, the university could do a lot better at forgiveness. I feel that your intial comments were a quite harsh and sounded extremely judgemental. I wanted to make sure that others reading this board did not get the wrong idea about the social clubs at Harding.

Once again, good luck in all you do at Harding. Hopefully this situation will not cast a negative light on Harding (although, in a lot of places it already is). And yes, I knew what Koinonia meant. There is a camp here of the same name. Thanks again.

God Bless.

Tripod 3

Koinoinia
11-28-2005, 06:25 PM
Please, keep me informed of the situation there. Although, from what I currently know, I disagree with your opinion, this does not mean that my opinion wouldn't change. And certainly, no one should every get over there "what is wrong with Harding" mindset. To make the university great, it should be constantly evaluated. Am I right?


What you are looking for you will find. If you are constantly looking for the negative, you will surely find it. If you are looking for things that could be changed to make something better, then you will find that too. It depends on your attitude when you are evaluating.
If you are only looking for what is wrong with Harding you will find all the negative apects.


Anyway. Thank you for your insight and opinion. This has been interesting.
God Bless. Have a wonderful week.

~Koinonia

[And just so you know, I was not mocking your intelligence when I gave you the definition of Koinonia... someone in another forum asked and I was just helping out.. :) ]
:D

Tom Earp
11-28-2005, 06:53 PM
If they screwed Up then They desearved to be punished!:mad:

Am I that Far Wrong?:confused:

Koinoinia
11-29-2005, 03:01 AM
Tom Earp, Thank you. That is what I have been trying to say... they knew they rules, broke them anyway, so they should be punished. If the club I am a queen for had messed up, I would of expected them to be punished, too.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
not to Tom Earp... just to anyone caring to read another (SMALL) response to an earlier post..


I don't think Harding should be looked down on because she is sticking by her rules. How is it wrong when a university actually supports and upholds her guildelines and standards?

Tripod 3
11-30-2005, 09:18 PM
Koinoinia,

Thanks for your response. Understand this, I am certainly not looking for anything negative from Harding. Once again, I think it is a great university. I had a great time while I was there. My wife attended there, along with most of my closest friends. But, what I am telling you is that the respose Harding gave in this instance (on Little Rock news, newspaper articles, etc.) has been viewed by many alumni and others as being in very poor taste. I have seen Harding punish people who didn't deserve to be punished more times than I ever imagined a Christian university would. And the feeling out here in the world away from Harding is that they certainly did not show much a Christian attitude in disband the club. I certainly hope that Harding can recover from this quickly. I would hate see such a great university lose students over this.

Tripod

EJM23
01-25-2008, 04:16 PM
Within the last few years I attended Harding and was involved in a social club. I originally came to Harding to play football, not for the social, spiritual or academic aspect that Harding claims to have. I found the majority of students at Harding to be extremely judgmental, and ignorant concerning what the Bible says about certain issues, using what their parents have told them as a foundation rather than scripture. I transferred to Auburn University after a semester (close to 12x bigger than Harding, and yes, a public university). Believe it or not, the friends I have here have better spiritual foundations than most at Harding and the social experience of a bigger school has been way more beneficial. I planned on pledging from the start, and I'm from the southeast so I know how serious they take things here, I knew that hazing was a possibility. I stumbled upon this msg board and found it hilarious how uneducated some people are about hazing. I do not condone hazing. However, the military hazes (yes, i understand men in fraternities aren't being trained for war, but it's a growth experience regardless and there's a lot that people don't understand), and 48 of the top 50 CEOs in America belonged to Fraternities (and yes were probably hazed.) Hazing can be classified as anything as having pledges drive actives around, having to be at events early in the morning, even having pledges get information about actives lives such as hometowns and interests is considered hazing. I am a brother in the nations largest fraternity and am in the second largest chapter nation wide, and never was i asked to eat anything, drink anything, consume alcohol or anything extreme like i'm sure most of you think goes on during pledge ship. Pledging is a great experience and though it is extremely busy, you form lasting friendships and are humbled and although I do not condone hazing I think in the long run it's beneficial, if you have never been through a tough pledge ship, you would never understand. I know that most people at Harding look down upon national organizations ( ex. SAE, Sigma Chi, SigEp) but the bond goes beyond the University. I have had job offers at big firms run by alumni of my fraternity, we've received significant financial assistance from alumni to fund our philanthropy events (all contributions going to make a wish foundation)... So many beneficial things come out of being a part of a national organization, and yes there are guys that match the stereotype of a "frat guy" but there are at Harding too. I am not trying to say one is better than the other, but it seems to be everyone on this board is a harding alum and knows little about fraternity/sorority life. I feel bad for the sigs as they had their brotherhood taken away from them for probably a ridiculous reason, being that harding is a ridiculously strict and borderline judgmental university.