Welcome to Denver, home of stupid people.

[PhoenixAzul]

Denver bans "pit bulls" (http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2005/07/21/build/nation/45-pit-bull-ban.inc)

Seriously, Denver can go eff itself. Stupidest law ever. And yes, I am one of "those" animal people.

[RedRoseSAI]

How heartbreaking for the families that have sweet, friendly pit bulls (I've known several) as pets.

[PhoenixAzul]

What really puts a burr up my butt is the fact that they're taking dogs that just "look like" pitt bulls. My dalmatian/lab mix "looks" like a pitt bull, and she'd never harm a soul

[KatieKate1244]

There was some talk about that down here in WV. In Huntington, a little girl was killed by a pit bull a few months ago. There is a muzzle law in effect, but no one bothers with it. I really don't support banning breeds, because any breed can and will attack. I like muzzle laws--for all dogs out in public--but they wouldn't ge enforced. :mad:

[valkyrie]

City Councilman Charlie Brown said that in his judgment, "pit bulls are trained to attack. They're bred to do that."

Okay, first of all, what kind of issues does dude have as a result of being named CHARLIE BROWN? Second of all, this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. PIT BULLS ARE NOT ALWAYS TRAINED TO ATTACK, JACKASS.

Ugh. As a resident of Denver, I've heard a ton about this and want to do something to help, but I'm not sure what, aside from helping people realize that jacknuts over here shouldn't be re-elected.

[jb1617]

I completely agree with you! I am also a resident of Denver, actually I live south of the city, and when I heard about this I was outraged! Its sickening to know that they can punish every pitt bull dog owner for the actions of a few. I have what some people would consider a "dangerous dog" (she's an akita) and I consider her one of my children. I would fight tooth and nail to keep her. I dont blame these people one bit for hiding their dogs.

[PhoenixAzul]

I say stage an all-dog march on the coucil meetings. Or put burning dog poo on their doorsteps. This really is genocide. I really hope that none of these people claim themselves as "pro-life"..."all life is sacred blah blah blah but I can kill this innocent puppy because it *might* maul someone".

And I could train my sheltie mix to attack if I wanted to (not that she'd get up off the couch long enough to listen...) but you don't see them being killed.

This is also a HUGE waste of taxpayer money...that euthanasia has to come from SOMEWHERE and the salaries of the poor shmucks who get sent to take people's dogs away.

[jb1617]

oooh I like the dog poop idea. I have a ton in my back yard already--its been too hot here lately to pick it up :D

[JenMarie]

Dogs don't maul people on their own. HUMANS make dogs maul people. If you were abused, yelled at, neglected and beat by someone, you'd be on the defense too.

There are some really nice pits at the shelter I volunteer at. It's a shame that none of them can get a home because EVERYONE has this picture in their mind that they will maul their kids.

I mean do the owners get compensated at all? After all the money you spend on vet bills and training to make it a perfect dog, and then they take it away? They better get something out of it for all the time and effort made to socialize them and bring them up properly.

This is really sad.

[PM_Mama00]

I've never heard of this muzzle law, but I like it. My neighbor has a black lab and some other kind that looks like a wolf (forgot the breed name) and they are taken care of like gold. Yet one day they got out of the fence and chased my dad down until he ran in the house.

I'm not a fan of big dogs, but I don't dislike dogs at all. I just think that any dog of ANY breed can get a lil crazy, no matter how they are treated.

I don't agree with the fact of these people having to give up their dogs. I think it should be up to the owners and I think there should be strict laws on having dogs outside of the house (ie: muzzle law... which I know nothing about but it sounds good). I had a friend who got an American Pit Bull dog and was very loving with him, played with him, was basically a really good owner. It turned on him one day out of the blue so he had to put it down. I'm def not very partial to this breed, but it should be up to the owners decision, not the city.

[Rudey]

Good.

Let's stop genetically breeding dogs for fighting.

-Rudey

[layla2728]

Miami has had them banned for a while.

[CUGreekgirl]

Georgia had proposed BSL (breed specific legislation) but last i heard lawmakers had backed down off of it. It wasn't going to be a totally ban, just some restrictions.

I cannot imagine someone coming to my house and taking my baby away from me. I rescued her from the animal shelter when she was 5 wks old. Her mom was a purebred pit and her dad was an unknown. However, if a ban was ever started, if would affect her. I would seriously move before giving up my dog or euthanising her.

Here is a website against CAs proposed BSL. www.sorryagain.com

my baby is the top two pics on page 152.

*I am extremely against more pit bulls being bred. They are one of the most abundant dogs in animal shelters but I think it is unfair to ban the ones that have already been born*

[PM_Mama00]

There was just a news story on Local 4 in Detroit about a child who was just riding his bike through his neighborhood and got mauled by a pit bull. I don't think that's very fair.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
There was just a news story on Local 4 in Detroit about a child who was just riding his bike through his neighborhood and got mauled by a pit bull. I don't think that's very fair.

You don't think it's fair that he was mauled by a pit bull? What is the solution to this problem?

Personally, I strongly believe that NO dogs or cats should be breeding until the ones who already exist have homes.

[JenMarie]

Check your local SPCA. The one here is offering a "Pay to Spay (or Neuter)" program where they fix Pit Bulls and their mixes for free.

/random aside

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by valkyrie
You don't think it's fair that he was mauled by a pit bull? What is the solution to this problem?

Personally, I strongly believe that NO dogs or cats should be breeding until the ones who already exist have homes.

Yes I don't think it's fair that this innocent child just outside playing got mauled by a pit bull. It's been happening ALOT lately in the Detroit area. I'm gona read more on this because I haven't gotten a chance to and I'm interested in knowing about it, but if I'm thinking correctly the muzzle law?

Again I think the owners are at fault and not the dog. If dogs aren't trained they don't know any better and people should keep watch after their pets and not let them run wild. Clearly it is the owner's fault.

[CUGreekgirl]

Yes I don't think it's fair that this innocent child just outside playing got mauled by a pit bull. It's been happening ALOT lately in the Detroit area. I'm gona read more on this because I haven't gotten a chance to and I'm interested in knowing about it, but if I'm thinking correctly the muzzle law?

Pit bulls get a bad rap because they are the ones that make the news. They are strong muscular dogs and when they bite, they do damage. How many chihuahuas, poodles, cockers spaniels, etc. bite children every day but never make the news?

The thing is about the muzzle law is only responsible citizens are going to muzzle their Pit bulls and its not the responsible owner's dogs that are attacking. Its the dogs of irresponsible people who chain them up, starve them, let them run all over the neighborhood etc.

[kddani]

Originally posted by CUGreekgirl
Pit bulls get a bad rap because they are the ones that make the news. They are strong muscular dogs and when they bite, they do damage. How many chihuahuas, poodles, cockers spaniels, etc. bite children every day but never make the news?


That argument makes absolutely NO sense. Why should they make the news if they're not causing as much harm? Out of the dogs that you named, i'm guessing the only way realistically that someone could die from their bite is if it got infected or something.

Pit bulls and rottweilers and the like CAN kill and some DO kill. You admitted yourself that they do damage when they bite. It's not uncommon to hear of children or sometimes even adults being killed by one of these dogs. Knowing your dog can cause damage puts the responsibility on YOU as an owner. Just like guns, there have to be laws because some dumb asses don't take care of their own responsibilities and other people get hurt.

[CUGreekgirl]

I was just saying that Pit Bulls aren't necessarily meaner than other dogs. Hell, my poodle mix would come a lot closer to biting someone than my Pit bull would. Pit Bulls actually scored better in the temperment test than Goldens, Labs, Cockers, etc.

[jb1617]

The real issue with pit bulls and the like is not the amount of attacks, its the severity of attacks. Most times if you are bit by a poodle, you need a shot of Bactine and a band-aid. When you're bit by a pit bull, you need an ER.

That said, I do agree with you CUGreekgirl. The dog breed with the largest history of bites is the cocker spaniel. But you dont see people buying them and training them to be attack dogs the way you do with pitt bulls.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by CUGreekgirl
I was just saying that Pit Bulls aren't necessarily meaner than other dogs. Hell, my poodle mix would come a lot closer to biting someone than my Pit bull would. Pit Bulls actually scored better in the temperment test than Goldens, Labs, Cockers, etc.

I've never heard of a Golden, Lab, or Cocker to maul or kill someone. Some children have gotten KILLED by Pit Bulls in the last few months.

[kddani]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
I've never heard of a Golden, Lab, or Cocker to maul or kill someone. Some children have gotten KILLED by Pit Bulls in the last few months.

well the dog's life is OBVIOUSLY more important than some innocent child :rolleyes:

I know no one expressly stated that here and probably no one really thinks that here, but i've seen and heard people IRL say things that pretty much amount to animals being more important to protect than children, and that's sorta sick

[PhoenixAzul]

So if one dog bites one child...it's allright to kill hundreds of dogs who will never bite a child? Just on the off chance that they *might* bite someone. Tippy *might* bite someone , then again, she may decide to stay in the air conditioning all day long. This legislature sounds too much like a "racial" profile to me...and guilt by association. I'm all for punishing the animals who train these dogs to do things like that, but it really isn't the fault of the dog. A properly trained and socialized pit bull isn't going to gnaw poor little Johny's arm off on a Tuesday, just because he's a pit bull.

and also, it reminds me of shark panic. One person gets bit by a shark...so let's go kill hundreds of them because they *might* bite someone.

and killing a dog because it "looks" like a pit bull is, in a word, bullshit. Absolute and complete BULLSHIT.

[PhoenixAzul]

and this "I'm sorry" site is the damn cutest thing I've ever seen.

[jb1617]

PhoenixAzul, that is exactly what I was going to say. And you even phrased it better than I would have.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by PhoenixAzul
A properly trained and socialized pit bull isn't going to gnaw poor little Johny's arm off on a Tuesday, just because he's a pit bull.

and also, it reminds me of shark panic. One person gets bit by a shark...so let's go kill hundreds of them because they *might* bite someone.

and killing a dog because it "looks" like a pit bull is, in a word, bullshit. Absolute and complete BULLSHIT.

My friend's pit bull was properly trained and socialized and STILL turned on him. It's fine if people wana own them, but keep them locked up unless you're walking them on a leash.

[ZTAngel]

My friend was living with a guy that owned a Pit Bull. He was also living with a sorority sister of mine that owned a cat. The Pit was very calm and good-natured. He was raised properly. One day when no one was home, we're guessing the Pit Bull and cat got into a scuffle. Kitty lost. It was a disgusting, upsetting mess.
Could this have happened with any dog breed? Certainly. But, like others have mentioned, a Pit Bull will do more damage than a Jack Russell or Cocker Spaniel. They're a muscular breed and their jaw locks.
I don't know what the solution is but I'm saying you can train a Pit Bull all you want but instinct is instinct (like in any dog)....a Pit Bull will do more damage than most dogs.

[PhoenixAzul]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
My friend's pit bull was properly trained and socialized and STILL turned on him. It's fine if people wana own them, but keep them locked up unless you're walking them on a leash.
well, yeah. THat's part of responsible ownership of any dog...when not on leash, they are indoors or restrained/fenced in a yard. No dog should be allowed to roam the streets unleashed...but that's a leash law, not a BSL.

[PM_Mama00]

Yeah they're GREAT dogs!

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/4758109/detail.html

http://www.clickondetroit.com/family/4758139/detail.html

And these were just posted TODAY.

[ADqtPiMel]

I'm extremely afraid of pit bulls. I've had 3 of my pet cats attacked and killed by them. My mother had to go to the ER after a pit bull mauled her leg, and she has some very deep scars. If you want a pit bull, fine, but keep it locked up where it can't have the opportunity to attack people and other animals.

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by CUGreekgirl
I was just saying that Pit Bulls aren't necessarily meaner than other dogs. Hell, my poodle mix would come a lot closer to biting someone than my Pit bull would. Pit Bulls actually scored better in the temperment test than Goldens, Labs, Cockers, etc.

This is not necessarily true. While I don't agree on banning specific breeds, I do acknowledge the fact that Pit Bulls, at least here in Austin, seem to cause the most problems as far as attacking cats/other dogs or children(I should say of the domesticated breeds, coyotes cause a great deal of problems as well-another reason to keep your cat or dog inside). I have to then try and put the cats and dogs back together-most of the time it is not a good outcome.

I have been bit by many animals but a Pit Bull, Rott, German Shep. can and will kill, a chihuahua/poodle/insert small to medium breed here will not. We had a pit in the clinic for almost a year-he came to us missing an ear and had obviously been in a severe fight. He was/is the sweetest dog BY HIMSELF. He would try to go after the clinic cats and I would not have trusted him with other dogs alone. He did find a home with no other animals and is doing well. I don't trust these dogs with other animals, though there are always exceptions.

Unfortunately, it is the good pet owner that will be hurt by these laws, the irresponsible ones won't care. More and more cities will start outlawing specific breeds.

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by PhoenixAzul
So if one dog bites one child...it's allright to kill hundreds of dogs who will never bite a child? Just on the off chance that they *might* bite someone. Tippy *might* bite someone , then again, she may decide to stay in the air conditioning all day long. This legislature sounds too much like a "racial" profile to me...and guilt by association. I'm all for punishing the animals who train these dogs to do things like that, but it really isn't the fault of the dog. A properly trained and socialized pit bull isn't going to gnaw poor little Johny's arm off on a Tuesday, just because he's a pit bull.

and also, it reminds me of shark panic. One person gets bit by a shark...so let's go kill hundreds of them because they *might* bite someone.

and killing a dog because it "looks" like a pit bull is, in a word, bullshit. Absolute and complete BULLSHIT.

Fortunately, we can choose whether we will go into the water if sharks are a threat. Postal workers cannot choose their work route and children cannot choose their neighborhood. If you want to get mad, take it out on the irresponsible owners. Again, I don't agree with this, I personally think people should have to get a license to own a pet-but how realistic is this? People suck.

[damasa]

Originally posted by PhoenixAzul
So if one dog bites one child...it's allright to kill hundreds of dogs who will never bite a child? Just on the off chance that they *might* bite someone. Tippy *might* bite someone , then again, she may decide to stay in the air conditioning all day long. This legislature sounds too much like a "racial" profile to me...and guilt by association. I'm all for punishing the animals who train these dogs to do things like that, but it really isn't the fault of the dog. A properly trained and socialized pit bull isn't going to gnaw poor little Johny's arm off on a Tuesday, just because he's a pit bull.

and also, it reminds me of shark panic. One person gets bit by a shark...so let's go kill hundreds of them because they *might* bite someone.

and killing a dog because it "looks" like a pit bull is, in a word, bullshit. Absolute and complete BULLSHIT.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I want to know how many people have had their boxers taken because they were mistaken for a pit.

Pits are aggressive dogs for sure but so are several other breeds. Pits have attacked in the past and they'll attack in the future but to ban dogs and put them to death simply because they "could" attack or because "other have attacked" is bullbeep.

Hell, people kill all the time, let's just start executing people since there could be a chance that someone might kill in the future (not a fair comparison I know, shut up before you start on it).

It's unfair to owners who are responsible and to the pets that are trained correctly. I owned several pits at times when I was in Wisconsin and I never had an issue with any of them. I had more control problems with a lab that my family had (which actually attacked someone and had to be put to sleep).

[valkyrie]

How many times do children provoke attacks? People want to pretend it never happens, but it does.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by valkyrie
How many times do children provoke attacks? People want to pretend it never happens, but it does.

It's not just children. Adults are being attacked. Mailmen are afraid to go in a neighborhood because there are alot of pit bulls in that area. I don't think these attacks are being provoked at all.

[JenMarie]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Yeah they're GREAT dogs!

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/4758109/detail.html

http://www.clickondetroit.com/family/4758139/detail.html

And these were just posted TODAY.

I'm not saying that pitbulls are harmless, but in both of these cases, the owners were MORONS. Especially in the last article.

I think the argument in this thread is not whether pits and pit mixes are docile or not, it's about why should we be punishing the responsible owners who do keep their dogs inside and socialized and such.

I am not a fan of pits and agree that their population is way out of control. I'm not advocating that we should SAVE THE PUPPIES and not protect our kids. But with ANY animal comes responsible ownership, and obviously a good chunk of pit owners can't control their dogs so they give up on them and let them roam the streets.

What city officials SHOULD be spending their money on is looking for these irresponsible owners rather than throwing up their arms and saying "let's take all of them and get rid of them."

ETA: The post below made me think of something. What about mandatory microchips? It's pretty cheap to get one anyway (maybe $25).

[ADPiAkron]

Originally posted by aggieAXO
Again, I don't agree with this, I personally think people should have to get a license to own a pet-but how realistic is this? People suck.

I have a dog license (as far as I know we only have them for dogs)-- I pay $8 per year to my county government (Summit County, Ohio) for it. If you do not have one and your dog gets loose and picked up by the dog warden you are fined (or anytime the dog warden is involved, and you do not have a license, you are fined). But it is also there as protection-- my dog does not have a tag with our name and address on it, so if she is lost and found by someone they can contact the Summit County Dog Warden and give them her tag number and then they can contact me.

The problem is that they are not enforced enough and I know many owners who do not have them. And they do not always fine-- because my boss did not have one for her dog and he bit someone and a police report had to be filed and a license was never mentioned.

But I guess it would be hard to keep track-- I mean they would have to do door to door investigations to find out!! :) I have my dog license and that is all that matters though!!

[DeltAlum]

I'll just be quietly offended by the name of this thread.

You don't paint all of the people of a city with the same brush over a single issue.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I'll just be quietly offended by the name of this thread.

You don't paint all of the people of a city with the same brush over a single issue.

Good point. It made me feel defensive, and I'm the last person in the world who would ever be in favor of an anti-pit bull law.

[kddani]

You know, DeltAlum, isn't it quite ironic that someone who created a thread complaining about the generalization about these dogs is making a huge generalization about an entire city?

[RACooper]

Originally posted by kddani
You know, DeltAlum, isn't it quite ironic that someone who created a thread complaining about the generalization about these dogs is making a huge generalization about an entire city?

Hey now... no need for your mighty logic here - after all what does logic have to do with rants :D

[AGDee]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
I've never heard of a Golden, Lab, or Cocker to maul or kill someone. Some children have gotten KILLED by Pit Bulls in the last few months.

A large part of the problem in Detroit is that so many are training their dogs to fight and having illegal dog fights. Those dogs are bred and trained to be mean. They are having a hard time cracking down on those folks. I don't think a pit bull ban in Detroit is far away, if only to help them crack down on those people. It's not fair to the responsible owners, but I think they're at their wits' end.

(I think the "wolf" looking dog you're talking about is either an Alaskan Malamute or a Huskie. I have a malamute and she's the biggest baby in the world. She wouldn't hurt a flea ever.)

Dee

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by ADPiAkron
I have a dog license (as far as I know we only have them for dogs)-- I pay $8 per year to my county government (Summit County, Ohio) for it. If you do not have one and your dog gets loose and picked up by the dog warden you are fined (or anytime the dog warden is involved, and you do not have a license, you are fined). But it is also there as protection-- my dog does not have a tag with our name and address on it, so if she is lost and found by someone they can contact the Summit County Dog Warden and give them her tag number and then they can contact me.

The problem is that they are not enforced enough and I know many owners who do not have them. And they do not always fine-- because my boss did not have one for her dog and he bit someone and a police report had to be filed and a license was never mentioned.

But I guess it would be hard to keep track-- I mean they would have to do door to door investigations to find out!! :) I have my dog license and that is all that matters though!!

You are talking about city registration-one word for this-USELESS

I bet more than 70% of the dogs I see have not been registered. The dogs that are picked up by animal control-their o's are forced to register them with the city at this time or they are not allowed to claim them. Some people don't want to pay the fee b/c they can go out and get another dog from their friend that lives next door whose bitch just had a litter of pit bulls (or insert breed here) for free.

My profession has unfortunately made me hate the human race. We suck.

[PhoenixAzul]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I'll just be quietly offended by the name of this thread.

You don't paint all of the people of a city with the same brush over a single issue.

perhaps that was the point.........

[kddani]

Originally posted by PhoenixAzul
perhaps that was the point.........

It wasn't a very well-made point then.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by AGDee
A large part of the problem in Detroit is that so many are training their dogs to fight and having illegal dog fights. Those dogs are bred and trained to be mean. They are having a hard time cracking down on those folks. I don't think a pit bull ban in Detroit is far away, if only to help them crack down on those people. It's not fair to the responsible owners, but I think they're at their wits' end.

(I think the "wolf" looking dog you're talking about is either an Alaskan Malamute or a Huskie. I have a malamute and she's the biggest baby in the world. She wouldn't hurt a flea ever.)

Dee

It might be a Malamute. It's smaller than the Black Lab, maybe like a mid-size dog?

My cousin had a Norweigen (wow spell much?) Huskie that was by far the sweetest dog in the world. Ironically I'm scared of big dogs. Give me a Yorkie or Shih Tzu or Malti-Poo and I'm in love. Put a big dog near me and I freak out.

[honeychile]

My brother & sister-in-law have Dobermans, a dog which IS bred to protect its owners. Living very solitary on 35 acres, they feel that it is necessary to have dogs which will scare poachers etc merely by the way they look.

They have gone out of their way to make sure each of their dogs is well socialized, and friendly. They've had lessons in both obedience and agility. Our entire family knows their cue words, and what to do (or not do) to keep them on our side.

Yet, a few years ago (obviously, I am not a child), I stooped to pet the one (he was just looking so cute!), when he suddenly jumped and bit me on the face! His bite was such that, had my brother not immediately stunned him, my nose and mouth would have been bitten off. I went into shock (after the proverbial primal scream!), and they hustled me off to a doctor to treat me so that the dog would not be destroyed. Praise the Lord, you can only see the scars if I point them out to someone!

I cuddled that dog from the time he was a puppy - fed him, treated him, and had no fear of him whatsoever. Shiloh was a good dog (he died of cancer about 6 months ago), but the bottom line is, Dobermans are not bred to be friendly! You can do everything imaginable to try to make them "nice" or "non-agressive", but you're going against their genetic makeup.

I'm sure that many people have wonderful, fun, loving pitbulls, too - but that's not what they were bred to be. I told my story only because if Shiloh could turn on someone, so could any other of the protection dogs. It's the same as having a gun in the house - it's there to protect you, but that doesn't mean it can't be used against you, too. You learn how to cut the odds, but you're never 100% positive...

[damasa]

Originally posted by honeychile


I'm sure that many people have wonderful, fun, loving pitbulls, too - but that's not what they were bred to be. I told my story only because if Shiloh could turn on someone, so could any other of the protection dogs. It's the same as having a gun in the house - it's there to protect you, but that doesn't mean it can't be used against you, too. You learn how to cut the odds, but you're never 100% positive...


Just about any dog can turn at just about any time, it's not just about "protection dogs."

One of the first instincts of a dog is for prtoection of self and then protection of owner, regardless of breed. If that species of dog feels that they might be in harm or their owner might be in harm, they'll attack. Now what triggers this, I'm not sure because dogs have different degrees of understanding.

But dogs can be trained to feel certain degrees of comfort and they have to be trained properly. The dog my parents have right now is a German Shepherd/Huskie mix. He's a monster of a dog and he weighs like 130 lbs. Yet, he was trained from day one to be gentle and caring. He's never even snarled, not at another person or at another dog. Hell, he even whines and jumps near the closest person when he hears thunder.

In your story, the Dobermans run the ranch, regardless of their training in obedience and agility, they have a different sense of protection because of that area. If they were trained cue words that you guys knew what to or not to say, well that's part of the problem right there. If there are actions that dogs are trained to do and you know when or when not to say them, it's in their training.

In any event, this simply is not fair - this pitbull ban in Denver that is. There is no true justification for it.

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by damasa
Just about any dog can turn at just about any time, it's not just about "protection dogs."

One of the first instincts of a dog is for prtoection of self and then protection of owner, regardless of breed. If that species of dog feels that they might be in harm or their owner might be in harm, they'll attack. Now what triggers this, I'm not sure because dogs have different degrees of understanding.


Yes, this is true, but the question is -can that dog KILL you? I have been bitten by more chihuahuas than any other breed-but they are not going to cause death (unless they are rabid but that is why I am vaccinated for rabies).

Believe it or not I have not met an aggressive doberman. Of course most of what I see are not guard dogs. When the police bring in their attack dogs they are always muzzled for our safety. These dogs are generally only trusted by their handler.

[damasa]

Originally posted by aggieAXO
Yes, this is true, but the question is -can that dog KILL you? I have been bitten by more chihuahuas than any other breed-but they are not going to cause death (unless they are rabid but that is why I am vaccinated for rabies).



Many breeds are capable of death.

I'm not arguing that a pit can be dangerous because it can be but so can so many other dogs. This is an unfair law. It's unfair to responsible owners and it's unfair to properly trained pits. Taking them and exterminating them is a horrible thing to do.

And I mentioned the fact that many breeds are dangerous because of honeychile's story. She mentioned how she was attacked yet pretty much gave the reason for it as well in her story. I'd still consider the Doberman and German Shepherd to be the most dangerous breeds. They are both very intelligent and they are both very lethal. During the Nazi era in Germany, the Germans were relentless in their use of these two breeds. They would turn these dogs on people in the hopes that they would kill them, many times succeeding.

Besides that, from what I understand this ban also includes dogs that "look like pits." That's bs, who is to say if the dog looks like a pit or not? People have differing views. Not to mention that a lot of breeds can be mistaken for a pit if the breed is mixed. Especially the boxer which appears to be an aggressive and very muscular dog but it is very very well mannered and tis great with kids.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by kddani
It wasn't a very well-made point then.
Agree. The name of the thread really has nothing to do with the topic.

If you want to say Denver City Council is stupid -- heck, maybe even some pit bull haters might agree with you.

Actually, Denver is one of the statistically highest educated cities in the nation.

[Tom Earp]

Ex Pit Bull Lover here!

KC Ks out lawed them as a Mean Bowser, well Tigre was a pussy for a Pit.

He did bite Kids as they invaded His Terrirtory.

Any Dog will do the same thing. Also, any dog will bite an owner when they blow right in their faces in a terasing Manner.:rolleyes:

It isnt the dog who is stupid, it is the Master of a (DUMB ANIMAL?)!

The only Reason People in Denver are Stupid (?) is because of the Altitued!;) Less Air!!!!:D

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Tom Earp Less Air!!!!:D
<<<<Gasp!>>>>

It's tough to deal here in New York City -- Too much damned oxygen in the air.

[honeychile]

Just to clarify things, I was trying to make the point that SOME dogs - and I don't pretend to know enough about pit bulls to included them or not - are "designer dogs" with certain characteristics bred into them. If you doubt me, watch the Westminster, or any other AKC show, and they'll tell you which. Dobermans (http://www.k9pups.com/site/657261/page/356753), who are only a little over 120 years old, ARE bred to protect, just as some were bred to hunt or herd.

BTW, Shiloh bit me while he was at my office, not on the ranch. He had no reason to be protecting anyone at the time, but he had just woken up. "Let sleeping dogs lie" is something I take to heart!! In contrast, when my mother's dog (a Bichon Frise) is playing rough, he will still cover his teeth with his mouth when "biting" you!

[Xylochick216]

We've had 7 pit bull attacks in my area within a three week span. On Friday we ran a story about a pit bull that attacked a woman's parked car and ruined it. I don't know a good solution to the problem because I know there are good pit bulls out there, but we're not seeing other types of unprovoked dog attacks. I'm glad no one in my neighborhood has a pit bull. If they did, I'd be staying inside.

[aggieAXO]

Blaine,

I understand where you are coming from, but... I see WAY more pit bulls than G.Shep. or dobermans combined. This is a hot topic in the vet community b/c many clients are looking to us to put in the dogs record that their dog is not a pit of any kind nor does it contain any mixture of a pit-which in many cases cannot be determined. It puts us in an awkward position. I do not see this becoming a law in Austin at any point thank goodness!

So does anyone have any suggestions. How do we punish the irresponsible owners? How do we prevent these attacks from happening? I would love to get any ideas from y'all and pass it along to the veterinarians I chat with who live in these cities.

[damasa]

Originally posted by honeychile


BTW, Shiloh bit me while he was at my office, not on the ranch. He had no reason to be protecting anyone at the time, but he had just woken up. "Let sleeping dogs lie" is something I take to heart!! In contrast, when my mother's dog (a Bichon Frise) is playing rough, he will still cover his teeth with his mouth when "biting" you!

Just to clarify, it doesn't really matter all that much where the dog is at, if the dog was bred/trained that way, something triggered it. My thoughts would be possibly in an unfamiliar area, maybe (your office) and/or the fact that the dog was just waking up.

I didn't disagree with you that some dogs are designer dogs. Yes, I do know that some dogs are bred with certain characteristics, that wasn't a disupte. What it comes down to is proper training.

In any event, I'm sorry the dobie attacked you. I love Dobies a lot but they still scare the hell out of me! I also personally dislike being around any dog that has been trained to be any type of guard dog or attack dog. No matter how obedient they are, if they can attack on cue words, that's a no go for me.

Regardless of the pits or not, taking dogs that "look like pits" is horrible because as I stated before, many people mistake Boxers as pits.

It is sad because a lot of people buy pits without giving them the proper training they need, because they are/were bred to be a vicious dog. I only mean to say that it's unfair to the owners and dogs that maintained the proper training/went through the proper training.

[damasa]

Originally posted by aggieAXO
Blaine,

I understand where you are coming from, but... I see WAY more pit bulls than G.Shep. or dobermans combined. This is a hot topic in the vet community b/c many clients are looking to us to put in the dogs record that their dog is not a pit of any kind nor does it contain any mixture of a pit-which in many cases cannot be determined. It puts us in an awkward position. I do not see this becoming a law in Austin at any point thank goodness!

So does anyone have any suggestions. How do we punish the irresponsible owners? How do we prevent these attacks from happening? I would love to get any ideas from y'all and pass it along to the veterinarians I chat with who live in these cities.

Don't get me wrong, I see where you are coming from as well. Pits are the only dogs I truly can't trust to be around because like many have said, they are bred to be more or less mean. But it's more about not knowing the owner and how responsible they have been with their dog.

I guess I just find it sad that some people could be losing a well-trained, loveable house pet from this. It's just hard to understand because my father and uncle once bred and trained dogs.

I think owners who are not responsible should be punised accordingly. I think there is a guy somewhere in the bay area who is being charged with attempted murder because he had his pit attack someone. And another case where a mother left her son home alone with two pits (one was in heat), is being charged but I'm not sure what for exactly. I think harsh penalties should be put in place for people that are irresponsible pet owners. I'm talking serious jail time among other things...

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by damasa

I think owners who are not responsible should be punised accordingly. I think there is a guy somewhere in the bay area who is being chared with attempted murder because he had his pit attack someone. And another case where a mother left her son home alone with two pits (one was in heat), is being charged but I'm not sure what for exactly. I think harsh penalties should be put in place for people that are irresponsible pet owners. I'm talking serious jail time among other things...

On these same lines, I had a client that brought her 2 dead dogs in for cremation b/c the robber let his pits in the house first to kill the dogs so he could then rob the house-scum. I am not sure what happened with the case or the robbers dogs. People suck. I am so excited that I get to work tomorrow and meet more irrespoinsible pet owners :( .

[PM_Mama00]

Pit Bulls Attack Five, Critically Injure Child

POSTED: 5:44 pm EST November 6, 2005

CARY, Ill. -- A 10-year-old boy is in critical condition a day after three pit bulls escaped from a home in Cary, Ill., and went on a rampage.

Authorities said the pit bulls attacked several people before police shot and killed the dogs.

No charges have been filed, but McHenry County Sheriff Keith Nygren said a criminal investigation is under way.

Neighbors said the attacks started late Saturday afternoon when children going door-to-door for a fund-raiser arrived at the home of the man who owned the dogs.

Police said the pit bulls attacked the two children, and when the dogs' owner tried to stop them, the dogs turned on him and bit off his thumb. The 10-year-old's father tried to protect his son and was attacked. The dogs went after another neighbor as well.

Residents threw rocks at the dogs and honked car horns to try to distract them before police arrived and shot the animals.

Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/5264038/detail.html