Abortion vs Dead Beat Dads

[RHOyal-Silence]

what's up greek and non greek family.

women have a legal right to abort a baby for any reason. sometimes the reason may be that the lady simply did not "plan" to get pregnant and does not want a baby right now.

my question to you all is how is that any different from a man who simply did not "plan" to have kids at the time and did not want them so he walked away from them.

the mother does not want a child so she can legally abort. the father does not want the child, but what can he do without being labled "dead beet dad"

just a question to make you think.

yip out!!

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by RHOyal-Silence:
what's up greek and non greek family.

women have a legal right to abort a baby for any reason. sometimes the reason may be that the lady simply did not "plan" to get pregnant and does not want a baby right now.

my question to you all is how is that any different from a man who simply did not "plan" to have kids at the time and did not want them so he walked away from them.

the mother does not want a child so she can legally abort. the father does not want the child, but what can he do without being labled "dead beet dad"

just a question to make you think.

yip out!!


And a GOOD ONE at that!!!

[PrettySqueaky]

Well in most states he can give up his parental rights.

It's easier than most people think. If a father agrees to give up his rights and there's someone willing to take his place (like the mother's new boyfriend, spouse, lesbian partner, his parents or her parents) it can be done. And all he has to do is go through the court system state his case and pay the court cost.

I know that wasn't the answer you were looking for, but legally that's what he can do. I think it's a shitty way out, and no matter what this guy is still a father(biologically.)

But what do you think when the guy wants the baby and the girl has the abortion. I know that's touching Roe-vs-Wade but my sophomore year at State this guy went around bragging and handing out cigars, because his girl was pregnant. Come to find out she had an abortion. She didn't tell him. The girl she went with did.

Now that's something to think about.

[PrettySqueaky]

Personally, I don't believe in abortion unless the child's or mother's health is at-risk. I know too many people who use this as a form of birth-control.

I had a close friend that wanted me to go with her while she had one. I told her no. And afterwards she was depressed. She crys every year around the time of the abortion, when she found out she was pregnant and the supposed due date.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a coldhearted person. But the only reason why she had an abortion is because she couldn't tell her parents. A couple of weeks after she had the abortion she found out her younger sister was pregnant.

My point is if you can't do the time, don't the crime. Meaning if you can't deal with the consequences whether it's protected or not...don't have sex.

[RHOyal-Silence]

a freind and i was talking about the same thing. can a man do anything legally if he wants the child but the mother wants an abortion? i know it's the woman's body, but it is also the man's baby.

[PrettySqueaky]

Originally posted by RHOyal-Silence:
a freind and i was talking about the same thing. can a man do anything legally if he wants the child but the mother wants an abortion? i know it's the woman's body, but it is also the man's baby.

That's the whole Roe-vs-Wade Debate. Like I stated before I don't believe in abortion and I have a wonderful son, whom everybody adores including his father(who went overboard and bought nikes every month until he realized how fast a baby grows.)

But my thing is this. Why can't the girl carry the baby then give the baby to the guy signing over her parental rights. Who knows maybe it's shame...the fact she doesn't want to be pregnant. But thank god I've never been in that situation and I hope that I never will.

Children are a gift of God. Some people aren't lucky enough to have those gifts. So I don't understand all the drama.

[blu_theatrics]

Originally posted by PrettySqueaky:

But my thing is this. Why can't the girl carry the baby then give the baby to the guy signing over her parental rights. Who knows maybe it's shame...the fact she doesn't want to be pregnant. But thank god I've never been in that situation and I hope that I never will.

Children are a gift of God. Some people aren't lucky enough to have those gifts. So I don't understand all the drama.


I fully agree with what you are saying. Why can't you just carry the child to term and the give it up.

I don't believe in abortions acept for health reason, and I'm a little leary on that part too.

But I know that a child is a child. For you to say that a nine month old growing inside of me is less of a person than the nine month old two second after birth is ridiculous.

And besides, I don't believ anyone has ever determined exactly what trimester the fetus "grows a soul" and until they do, I see it as murder.

As far as the father not having a right, I know that that is a Roev. Wade desicion, but I fully believe that abortion like adoption(to some extent) should be something that should be signed off by both parties.

But then again, that's just my opinion

[blu_theatrics]

Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:
Who is affected when a woman aborts a child? At most, herself, the child and the father of the child. Who is affected when a man decides to walk away from his children? Our entire society.

As long as society thinks that baby's momma's and baby's daddy's are an acceptable substitute for husbands and wives, things aren't going to change.



Well said

[MIDWESTDIVA]

This is an interesting question. I have been thinking about it for several days. I am pro-choice, but I am not interested in sparking a Roe vs. Wade debate either. I do believe that aborting and walking away from a child are in the same category. However, the aftereffects are very different. Who is affected when a woman aborts a child? At most, herself, the child and the father of the child. Who is affected when a man decides to walk away from his children? Our entire society. Prison cells are full of men who did not have fathers in the home. A tremendous burden has been placed on African American society in particular, because of absentee fathers. All of the responsibility is laid on the mother's shoulders. Some women are able to successfully raise boys into men. But many aren't. What if she didn't have a father when she was growing up? If the example was not set for her, and there is no man in the home, how can she be both mother and father to her child? I believe that this is why the penal system claims so many of our young men, and the welfare system claims so many of our young women.

This whole situation has become a vicious cycle. As long as society thinks that baby's momma's and baby's daddy's are an acceptable substitute for husbands and wives, things aren't going to change.

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"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on." ~Robert Frost



[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited January 11, 2001).]

[BlueReign]

MidWest Diva, I couldn't agree with you more.

[SoloRHO]

Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:
Who is affected when a woman aborts a child? At most, herself, the child and the father of the child. Who is affected when a man decides to walk away from his children? Our entire society.


I was going to stay away from this topic cuz I thinks its such a sensitive one, but here goes... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif
I want to play Devil's Advocate for just one minute... the quote above by MidWestDiva states that the only people affected when a woman has an abortion are herself, the father, and the child.
But how can we be so sure of that. Who knows what that child may grow to be. He/She could grow to be one of our greatest leaders, someone that could save us from pollution or fight racism, or create a cure for Cancer or AIDS, etc... In the future, they could turn out to be someone who would fight the good fight for whats right in our world.
In this way, society as a whole MIGHT BE affected by abortion. There's always a chance... Just as there's always a chance that the child that's not aborted and raised by a single parent may turn out to be a great leader or worker also... Not just another prison number. None of us really knows what God has in store for us.
I mean, have you ever thought that maybe the reason why we don't have too many TRUE LEADERS in our communities is because we've killed them before they were born?... just something to think about.

PEACE
SoloRHO
PS, Remember, for the most part, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here...

[This message has been edited by SoloRHO (edited January 12, 2001).]

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by PrettySqueaky:
Well in most states he can give up his parental rights.

It's easier than most people think. If a father agrees to give up his rights and there's someone willing to take his place (like the mother's new boyfriend, spouse, lesbian partner, his parents or her parents) it can be done. And all he has to do is go through the court system state his case and pay the court cost.

I know that wasn't the answer you were looking for, but legally that's what he can do. I think it's a shitty way out, and no matter what this guy is still a father(biologically.)

But what do you think when the guy wants the baby and the girl has the abortion. I know that's touching Roe-vs-Wade but my sophomore year at State this guy went around bragging and handing out cigars, because his girl was pregnant. Come to find out she had an abortion. She didn't tell him. The girl she went with did.

Now that's something to think about.

Suppose the man tells the girl that he has enough children and he aint trying to have any more. He sets out his condoms; and while he's in the bathroom, the girl punctures his condom because she wants a "pretty baby with 'good'hair". Unaware of what happens, he does his thing and finds out later that she is pregnant. She has this baby-and NO BOYFRIEND willing to pay child support. By law, he is stuck with paying child support.

Is THIS fair(just)?

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by blu_theatrics:
I fully agree with what you are saying. Why can't you just carry the child to term and the give it up.

I don't believe in abortions acept for health reason, and I'm a little leary on that part too.

But I know that a child is a child. For you to say that a nine month old growing inside of me is less of a person than the nine month old two second after birth is ridiculous.

And besides, I don't believ anyone has ever determined exactly what trimester the fetus "grows a soul" and until they do, I see it as murder.

As far as the father not having a right, I know that that is a Roev. Wade desicion, but I fully believe that abortion like adoption(to some extent) should be something that should be signed off by both parties.

But then again, that's just my opinion

What does it cost to have a baby today? $8000.00? That's odd; that's approximately the amount to have a fairly inexpensive funeral too.

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Originally posted by SoloRHO:
I want to play Devil's Advocate for just one minute... the quote above by MidWestDiva states that the only people affected when a woman has an abortion are herself, the father, and the child.
But how can we be so sure of that. Who knows what that child may grow to be. He/She could grow to be one of our greatest leaders, someone that could save us from pollution or fight racism, or create a cure for Cancer or AIDS, etc... In the future, they could turn out to be someone who would fight the good fight for whats right in our world.
In this way, society as a whole MIGHT BE affected by abortion. There's always a chance... Just as there's always a chance that the child that's not aborted and raised by a single parent may turn out to be a great leader or worker also... Not just another prison number. None of us really knows what God has in store for us.
I mean, have you ever thought that maybe the reason why we don't have too many TRUE LEADERS in our communities is because we've killed them before they were born?... just something to think about.

PEACE
SoloRHO
PS, Remember, for the most part, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here...

[This message has been edited by SoloRHO (edited January 12, 2001).]

Good point! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

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"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on." ~Robert Frost



[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited January 12, 2001).]

[PrettySqueaky]

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
Suppose the man tells the girl that he has enough children and he aint trying to have any more. He sets out his condoms; and while he's in the bathroom, the girl punctures his condom because she wants a "pretty baby with 'good'hair". Unaware of what happens, he does his thing and finds out later that she is pregnant. She has this baby-and NO BOYFRIEND willing to pay child support. By law, he is stuck with paying child support.

Is THIS fair(just)?



That comment about good hair and a pretty baby was a flashback. That's what someone told me a couple of weeks ago.

But to answer your question...If a guy tells a girl he has enough kids (with a S) and she still tries to get pregnant by him...well she's just a silly ass hoe. (Excuse my french, but she's stupid. He blatantly came out of his mouth said I've been around and as a result I have mad kids that I can't take care of. Well almost said that)

I don't think it's fair. And legally unless he gives up all rights there's nothing he can do, but fork up.

I'm partial to this whole debate on a guy paying child support. I don't think it should be court mandated (but in certain situations it's needed.) I feel as though if I guy doesn't want to support his child, well no one including the gov't should force him to. And as a woman I feel as though you shouldn't make him if the situation is like any we've been discussing.

This is a total tangent, but there are so many young girls out there that think "If I have his baby we will always be together!!!!" And they don't understand if Tiasha and Sha-nala already has his child and EsLawn is pregnant the same time you are..."How are you going to be together forever?"

I've read of too many situations in which the broad uses the money for other things besides the welfare of the child. Situations like that make me sick.

Not to put my business out here. But I told little man's dad if somethign were to happen to me or we were to ever fall out (again...I wanted a race car bed not train. let me stop tripping) make sure he saves every receipt from where he bought little man stuff. In NC they are so strict on child support. In some counties they can make the man pay back child support(including a large majority of the hospital bills and if she received welfare) from the day the child was conceived(not birth, but conception.)It's like as soon as I found out I was pregnant some of my friends were like hit him up for child support because their man didn't do such and such. Then they were like no wait until he graduates that way you can get backpay. My thing is I would rather for my child to have an emotional father around rather than a child support check.

I lost a lot of friends when they found out we were still friends and I wasn't trying to get his money. That's why I have no sympathy for anyone that tries to take and manipulate a guy just for child support. Notice the word is child...not maternal. Now mind you the support is supposed to help pay rent, food and etc. But I think most of it should go to clothes, diapers and etc first!!!! Why???? Because if you didn't have this baby your azz would still need a place to stay and food to eat.

Sorry this was so long, and I was jumping from tangent to tangent. It's just that I don't understand how a woman can trick a man into fatherhood, especially if it's just for child support. But this reminds me of something I was reading at school. It was in the athletic building. It was an article on how pretty women were sleeping with athletes in the NFL and NBA hoping to get pregnant to draw child support checks. What do ya'll think about that.

[DST Love]

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
Suppose the man tells the girl that he has enough children and he aint trying to have any more. He sets out his condoms; and while he's in the bathroom, the girl punctures his condom because she wants a "pretty baby with 'good'hair". Unaware of what happens, he does his thing and finds out later that she is pregnant. She has this baby-and NO BOYFRIEND willing to pay child support. By law, he is stuck with paying child support.

Is THIS fair(just)?



Well, that is why you do not sleep with people who you do not love. People have to look at sleeping with people in this manner: everytime you lay down with someone (male or female) you could be potentionally giving them power over the rest of your life. If you have a baby with a person, that person can affect your finances, your marriage, your future children, and your life. Because what if the girl didn't punch holes in the condom, but the condom just broke. See what I'm saying. At least if you're having sex with someone you love and could see marrying, then it might not be that bad of a problem because you know that you could spend the rest of your life with that person raising your child together or if you don't stay with that person, then you would know that that person would not do anything intentionally to hurt you (i.e. playing games with your child and visitation, trying to put you in jail for child support, messing with any of your future relationships, etc.). I know at 23 years old, that my opinion is considered old fashioned, but I guarantee you that if more people took that approach, then there would be less unwanted children and less deadbeat moms/dads. And I'm not on a high horse or anything, but I can say I live what I speak.

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by DST Love:
Well, that is why you do not sleep with people who you do not love. People have to look at sleeping with people in this manner: everytime you lay down with someone (male or female) you could be potentionally giving them power over the rest of your life. If you have a baby with a person, that person can affect your finances, your marriage, your future children, and your life. Because what if the girl didn't punch holes in the condom, but the condom just broke. See what I'm saying. At least if you're having sex with someone you love and could see marrying, then it might not be that bad of a problem because you know that you could spend the rest of your life with that person raising your child together or if you don't stay with that person, then you would know that that person would not do anything intentionally to hurt you (i.e. playing games with your child and visitation, trying to put you in jail for child support, messing with any of your future relationships, etc.). I know at 23 years old, that my opinion is considered old fashioned, but I guarantee you that if more people took that approach, then there would be less unwanted children and less deadbeat moms/dads. And I'm not on a high horse or anything, but I can say I live what I speak.

Love,

I like the way you think. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[DST Love]

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
Love,

I like the way you think. I agree with you wholeheartedly.



I'm happy that you agree !!!

[blu_theatrics]

Originally posted by SoloRHO:
the quote above by MidWestDiva states that the only people affected when a woman has an abortion are herself, the father, and the child.
But how can we be so sure of that. Who knows what that child may grow to be. He/She could grow to be one of our greatest leaders, someone that could save us from pollution or fight racism, or create a cure for Cancer or AIDS, etc...

That reminds me of a comic strip I once read.

It had a picture of a group of people who had the chance to talk to GOD and they asked him why didn't you send someone to cure AIDS? Why didn't you let anyone find the cure to cancer? etc.

And God's reply was that he did send people to do all of those things, but they were aborted......

Just a little something to get the wheels of your brain turning http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[blu_theatrics]

like it was said earler, you basically don't have sex with those you don't love.

You must realize that every time you lie down you can concieve. My son is the product of a condom. (yes he is a miracle baby http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif)My mother concived both myself and my sister on birth control pills.

If you are adult enough to have sex you should be adult enough to have a conversation about children, but they do come from sex.

You should talk to your partner about what he/she would plan on doing in case of an unplanned pregnancy and then you will know what you can do from there

And like DST Love said, if she is poking wholes in your condom that's one thing, but think about the fact that it could easily break and from experience I can tell you that a break does not have to be a gigantic tear it can be an inconspicios tear that leaves a very noticibale surprise.

And one more point...Woman you must understand that although it is wrong and not right, you have the responsiblity to stop an unplanned pregnancy because he can and will run, although it is a cowardly and ignorant thing to do, so think about that next time he tells you he loves you just to get a piece of....you know the rest


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It took three rough drafts to create a masterpiece....
Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority Incorporated
Epsilon Chapter (http://www.iun.edu/~sgr)

[PrettySqueaky]

Originally posted by blu_theatrics:
like it was said earler, you basically don't have sex with those you don't love.



This should be true, but some people can't say no. Besides there's all types of love. And when you're young lust is love. You can love love somebody (as in a deep admiration), care for someone, love someone as a friend, so on and on.

But shyt happens. And I know plenty of people including myself that thought I loved such and such but when I look back on it...it was an admiration/puppy love. Not that I'm older this guy wouldn't get a number.

But having sex and the mistakes that comes along with it, is a part of life. You either learn from your mistakes or keep making them.

But I think the main reason they are some problems that are related to sex, is because people can't wait and sometimes a lot of females do it because they're lonely. Or as my bestfriend says, because he didn't have shit else to do and she was there. (They think about immediate gratification and not the long-term effects.)

[rho4life]

with the election coming up, i just wanted to spark a debate..........

[TRSimon]

Originally posted by DST Love
People have to look at sleeping with people in this manner: everytime you lay down with someone (male or female) you could be potentionally giving them power over the rest of your life. If you have a baby with a person, that person can affect your finances, your marriage, your future children, and your life.

I am pro-choice. I believe that people need to make an educated and careful choice about who they sleep with. That would eliminate the vast majority of abortion and deadbeat dad issues. Sexual intercourse is an action with far reaching consequences. If one isn't man or woman enough to handle them, then folks need to abstain or wait. That's jmo though. :)

[OptiKal_Elusion]

I believe that people need to make an educated and careful choice about who they sleep with. That would eliminate the vast majority of abortion and deadbeat dad issues. Sexual intercourse is an action with far reaching consequences. If one isn't man or woman enough to handle them, then folks need to abstain or wait. That's jmo though. :)

Exactly, I feel that if u don't think you're ready for a baby then u shouldn't be having sex.

[shinerbock]

Wow, you people are actually spot on. A lot of people make the arguments that abortion destroys potentially valuable human life (although its all valuable), and that it is used as birth control in place of personal responsibility. Another thing I think it does is to limit the potential of would-be parents. In previous generations, unexpected pregnancies were common, but many of them simply stepped up to the plate and did what they had to. Drunk/immature fathers got steady jobs and got married. Women transitioned from irresponsible teenagers to loving and influential mothers. Granted, I don't blame this change simply on abortion, but the idea that a pregnancy is disposable surely doesn't help. I get angry when I see the generations before us referred to as rudimentary, I can only hope to grow up with the moral strength and wisdom that my father and grandfather had. Sure, we have advantages they don't have, but sometimes I think they obtained attributes our society will never have.

[aishaelle]

Just give up your parental rights, problem solved. I saw a man do this in juvenile court last week.

[thetalady]

Just give up your parental rights, problem solved. I saw a man do this in juvenile court last week.

You know this thread is 11 years old, right??

[Kevin]

You know this thread is 11 years old, right??

The OP is from 2001. This thread is eligible in most states for a driver's license.