Ongoing Chico State Pledge Death Situation...

[hoosier]

Chi Tau pledge dies
Becky Regan
News Editor
February 02, 2005


A Chi Tau pledge died about 5 a.m. today after he collapsed during a pledge event, Chico police said.

"It doesn't appear that alcohol played any part in his death," Sgt. Dave Barrow said.

Barrow said 21-year-old Matthew William Carrington was participating in a pledge event that involved physical activity and drinking large quantities of water.

Carrington's cause of death has not been identified, and his medical history is unknown. An autopsy is scheduled for Thursday.

Some cases of water intoxication can cause brain tissues to swell, which may lead to a seizure, coma or death, according to About.com.

Chi Tau member Corey Williams said Carrington's pledge brother woke up everyone in the house when he discovered Carrington was not breathing.

"I woke up to his pledge brother banging on the door saying 'he's not breathing'," Williams said.

Williams was not in the basement when Carrington died, but he said paramedics told him Carrington had a seizure and choked on his tongue. Blood was coming out of Carrington’s ears.

Williams said the pledges had been cleaning the house and participating in fraternity events on Tuesday, but no alcohol was involved. The pledges were sleeping in the basement.

Williams said Carrington's pledge brother told him that he awoke when he heard Carrington making unusual snoring sounds. When the pledge brother realized something wasn’t right, he started to perform CPR on Carrington.

"His pledge brother actually had him in his arms when he stopped breathing," Williams said.

Chi Tau president Ken Dandy said the fraternity has not been able to contact Carrington’s pledge brother since this morning.

Dandy also said no fraternity members know if Carrington has any medical condition that might have caused a seizure.

"We have no idea what the cause of death might be," Dandy said. "Matt was one of the coolest people I’ve met in Chico."

(Doug Case was first with this story)

[mmcat]

how sad....
all involved in my thoughts and prayers.

[Tom Earp]

Yep, was on Local TV News in KC this morning, and I am laying in Bed with GLOs running through my Head!:(

What GLO are they affiliated with? Anyone know?

Never Heard of them?

[NinjaPoodle]

from the San Francisco Chronicle

Pledge dies in hazing at Chico fraternity (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/02/03/BAGIGB497T1.DTL)

http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2005/02/03/ba_obit_carrington.jpg
A 21-year-old pledge rushing a fraternity in Chico is dead after drinking several gallons of water in a bizarre hazing ritual, his family said.

Chico police detectives have taped off the basement of Chi Tau fraternity where they say the incident occurred, and they are interviewing 14 house members to find out how Matthew Carrington of Pleasant Hill died Wednesday morning. Carrington's friend Mike Quintana, who was the only other pledge present during the night of hazing, told police and Carrington's parents that he and Carrington had been forced to drink about five gallons of water each, had ice water thrown on them and air-conditioning fans turned their way during an all-nighter in the fraternity's basement.

The young men were forced to do push-ups and stand on a bench for hours while answering trivia questions about the house brothers, said Chico police Sgt. Robert Merrifield, who is investigating the case.

"At 5 a.m. this morning (Wednesday) my son was forced to do more push-ups and had a seizure," Debbie Smith said. "They thought he was fine because he was snoring, and they didn't want to get in trouble so they didn't call an ambulance until about an hour later when he wasn't breathing."

Medics kept Carrington alive with CPR, but he was pronounced dead after 6 a.m., shortly after arriving at a local hospital, Merrifield said.

An autopsy will be conducted today. There is no indication alcohol or drugs were involved, authorities said.

Detectives are looking into the allegation that fraternity brothers procrastinated for an hour before calling 911 because they were worried they could get in trouble, Merrifield said.

Carrington moved to Chico in August and was eager to make new friends, his mother said. After graduating in 2001 from Ygnacio Valley High School in Concord, Carrington worked at Office Depot and Kinko's to earn tuition for Chico. Once in college, he decided to rush Chi Tau, which had a troubled past.

"This fraternity has been dealt with in the past and has no standing with the university," said university spokesman Joe Willis. "They aren't part of the fraternity council, but that raises another problem that they don't have to abide by our guidelines on behavior."

Smith didn't know that Chi Tau used to be called Delta Sigma Phi until 2002, when the house was expelled from Chico State and the Interfraternity Council for serving alcohol to minors.

"They were cut off from the university after a span of about seven years of trouble," said Rick Rees, student activities associate director for Cal State Chico.

In 1995, Rees began getting calls from students that fraternity members were starting unprovoked fistfights on the sidewalks outside the house. Police complained it took five squad cars to break up their parties. A woman filed a sexual assault report. The final straw was the underage drinking, Rees said.

"When a fraternity is kicked out, they leave," Rees said. "What's unusual here is this fraternity is still hanging on under the name it had in 1939, Chi Tau."

Carrington's hazing began in October, his mother said, with more innocuous stunts like sending pledges to the beach to trade their shirts with homeless people. Fraternity brothers videotaped pledges dressed up like prostitutes walking down the street in Southern California, she said.

"But recently I could tell something changed, and he didn't want to talk to me about the rush activities anymore," she said.

Then on her way to work Wednesday morning, she got the phone call no mother wants to get.

"This is ripping my heart out," she said, adding that she was worried about the tragedy's effect on Carrington's younger brother, Travis. "He loves his older brother so much."

Travis Smith, 14, said he was still in denial. He couldn't believe the brother who took him camping in Yosemite, taught him to throw a football and shared his Eminem CDs was gone.

Carrington's aunt, Angie Birdwell, called Cal State Chico officials Wednesday to demand the students involved in the hazing be expelled.

Willis said Carrington's death was a horrible shock. The campus is waiting to see the outcome of the police investigation before it launches its own review to determine possible disciplinary action against the students.

A note is going out today to inform students of the tragedy, and the campus flag will be lowered. Counselors will be ready for grieving students and the campus will help with memorials if the family wishes.

While universities nationwide are grappling with fraternity tragedies, Chico has had its share of bad news.

In October 2002, freshman pledge Adrian Heideman of Palo Alto was found dead in the basement of Chico's Pi Kappa Phi fraternity with a blood alcohol level three times above the legal driving limit. Three house members pleaded no contest to criminal charges related to the forced alcohol binge.

Chico student Quintana, who went through the Chi Tau water ritual with his friend Carrington, was in despair Wednesday.

"Just tell people how great Matt was, how wonderful and beautiful a boy he was," Quintana said.

E-mail Meredith May at mmay@sfchronicle.com.

[adpialumcsuc]

This is very sad

Any from Chico out there know if it is the old Delta Sig house?

[NinjaPoodle]

Smith didn't know that Chi Tau used to be called Delta Sigma Phi until 2002, when the house was expelled from Chico State and the Interfraternity Council for serving alcohol to minors.


According to the article, it was.

[TSteven]

"This fraternity has been dealt with in the past and has no standing with the university," said university spokesman Joe Willis. "They aren't part of the fraternity council, but that raises another problem that they don't have to abide by our guidelines on behavior."

Apparently, the university has has issues with this chapter. This is from the Social Fraternities (http://www.csuchico.edu/sac/org/catsof.html) page of the Chico State website.

Note: Chi Tau (XT) was expelled from the University in spring 2002 for alcohol violations. Although the fraternity continues to operate, it is not recognized by the University, the Interfraternity Council or it's former national fraternity Delta Sigma Phi.

[TSteven]

This was written back in November of 2003.

Chi Tau upsets frats (http://www.orion-online.net/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/11/19/3fbad4083602e)
Kristina Seward
Assistant News Editor
November 19, 2003

If the Interfraternity Council gets what it wants, the Chi Tau fraternity house on Fourth and Chestnut streets would be stripped of its identity.

In an effort to distinguish IFC fraternities from Chi Tau, a local fraternity that was expelled from the university in 2001 for alcohol violations, the IFC is planning to ask the city to remove the fraternity's Greek letters from the front of its house.

"This organization (Chi Tau) is giving Greeks a bad reputation and a bad name," said IFC President Bobby Armstrong. "So we want to exclude ourselves from them."

Armstrong said that during the last two or three IFC meetings, fraternity representatives have vented their frustrations with Chi Tau members, whose fraternity became Chi Tau after it lost its national charter with Delta Sigma Phi.

Armstrong said these frustrations stem from the fact that Chi Tau does not have to follow the same rules, namely alcohol, party and violence policies, and that members have been abusing their freedom.

By having the "XT" letters removed from the front of house, Armstrong said the IFC is hoping community members will no longer associate Chi Tau with the Greek system.

"What we're hoping it will do is that when a police officer or anyone from the community drives by and sees a party there, they're not going to look up and see those letters and say, 'look at those fraternity guys,'" Armstrong said.

Armstrong said IFC fraternities hold themselves to a higher standard than Chi Tau. He said they focus on doing positive and beneficial things for the community and university, like holding blood drives and cleaning up the south campus neighborhood with their Adopt-a-Block program.

"We do all these things and the IFC fraternities feel like all these guys do is party," Armstrong said. "You get people who don't know the difference between IFC and Chi Tau and we want to set ourselves apart. Even though they have Greek letters on their house, don't throw them in the mix with us."

Jesse Chrisp, president of Chi Tau, said he acknowledges that the IFC fraternities are upset with his fraternity because it doesn't have to abide by the same rules.

"They don't like that we don't have to do deferred rush, that we can have socials still, that we own our house and that we can party," Chrisp said.

But Chrisp said that trying to get Chi Tau's letters removed would be a waste of the IFC's time.

"The city's not going to come and take our letters away any more than they would go take their letters away," he said. "They all party just as much as we do."

Bob Summerville, associate planner of Chico, said he would assume that if the fraternity permit was revoked, the letters on the house would come down. But he said he doesn't know what specifically the fraternity would have to do to have its permit revoked.

Chrisp said Chi Tau members are probably viewed as "partiers," but they still make time for charity. Chrisp said for the past two years, Chi Tau members have volunteered to cater a 600-person dinner for Psi World, a non-profit organization.

While Chrisp said his fraternity doesn't plan to stop having parties, he said he would like to see the fighting between Chi Tau members and other fraternity members stop.

"I am tired of all the fights," he said. "We had a big three hour meeting, and we discussed where we wanted to go with our fraternity in terms of fighting."

Chrisp said that the "hot-headed" members of the fraternity are going to cool down and stop fighting.

Nick Miller, pledge educator and member of Sigma Pi, said his fraternity has been involved in a couple disputes with Chi Tau this semester.

But Miller said he would like to see the fraternity be given a chance to improve before having its letters removed from the house. Miller said he sees two options for Chi Tau.

"The first option would be that they get back on track, possibly get back on IFC, and try to get along with other fraternities, which is something I know I would respect and IFC would respect," he said. "The other option is that they continue on the track they're on, and we would continue to try and shut them down."

Miller said if Chi Tau members continue to behave in the way they have, then taking their letters down would be a huge accomplishment for the Greek system.

But he said the ideal situation would be Chi Tau members making a conscious effort to do the right thing.

Connie Huyck, Greek adviser at Chico State, agreed that she would rather see Chi Tau work to improve rather than be pushed away from the Greek system.

Huyck said she would rather see the organization recognized by the university and following rules of Delta Sigma Phi.

"I would prefer to have them with us rather than against us," she said.

Huyck said she has been working with Chi Tau's leadership to become a chapter of the national fraternity Delta Sigma Phi again, but she is not sure if that is still the goal.

Chrisp said Chi Tau is no longer interested in becoming affiliated with Delta Sigma Phi. He said it would only impose more rules and would not offer any benefits.

Chrisp said he would be interested in becoming recognized by the university again because that would allow Chi Tau to participate in fraternity athletics and that his fraternity misses playing sports.

Chrisp said Chi Tau's image is important but they are just trying to have fun.

In an attempt to solve the problems between Sigma Pi and Chi Tau, Huyck has asked the presidents of both fraternities to meet with her and Sgt. Linda Dye, community liaison for the Chico police within the next few weeks.

"It will be an opportunity to air their concerns and differences and figure out a way they can coexist," Huyck said. "What I'm hoping is that we can create a plan of action that both organizations will follow and make peace with the situation."

© 2005 The Orion

[adpialumcsuc]

Originally posted by NinjaPoodle
According to the article, it was.
Oops Can I tell I didn't read the entire article. Thanks!!!!

[Peaches-n-Cream]

They talked about this case on NBC's Nightly News earlier this evening.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
They talked about this case on NBC's Nightly News earlier this evening.
Along with several other incidents including two of the deaths here in Colorado, and CU's plan for deferred Rush, etc.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Its not just that one fraternity that has issues.

That entire greek system has issues. I'm not saying that every single chapter in that greek system is a risk management nightmare. There are, however, a disproportional number of major risk management issues that have come from Chico over the years, arguably more than any other greek system in the nation.

[roqueemae]

Originally posted by adpialumcsuc
Oops Can I tell I didn't read the entire article. Thanks!!!!

It mentioned that it was the old fraternity but didn't mention if it was the same house. Could be two different things.

[mmcat]

mom was on the today show saturday along with a university spokesman, who seemed a bit pompous.

[DeltaSigStan]

The Delta Alpha Chapter of Delta Sigma Phi at CSU Chico had it's charter revoked the week before I became an initiated in Spring 02. They came down to our house, and said they had reverted back to their local, Chi Tau. Their chapter alumni had not supported the move, so it was done without their permission. I don't know why people have to wait until it's too late to see how stupid some of this crap is....

[Glitter650]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
Its not just that one fraternity that has issues.

That entire greek system has issues. I'm not saying that every single chapter in that greek system is a risk management nightmare. There are, however, a disproportional number of major risk management issues that have come from Chico over the years, arguably more than any other greek system in the nation.

Actually that is true. Off the top of my head, another fraternity pledge died in 2002 or 2001, and that whole incident with the pregnant sorority woman etc.
However I don't believe it is completely the fault of the greek system. Honestly Chico is known as probably one of the biggest party schools in California, and for good reason. It's a college town in the middle of NOWHERE, there's nothing to do there but party. If you have a whole campus that is known to have party all the time, some of those partiers are going to be greek, some of those greek partiers are not going to be doing so safely. Only if the university and the GLOs work together is the atmosphere in Chico going to get better.

[AXiDTrish]

So, I just read an article on another thread about the mother of this poor student suggesting to stop (fraternity) recruitment because it was degrading to men.

I saw this woman on the Today Show (2/5/05, I think) and she is obviously upset, rightfully so, because it was horrible and unacceptable what happened to her son...BUT...she said on national TV that her son told her about the hazing he was going through for this local org and she said he thought it was fun!

So, we can blame the chapter...yes,
we can blame the individual students.....yes,
we can blame the university, but.....

HELLO!!! Mom KNEW her son was being hazed!!! She also admitted that he stopped talking about the hazing as he got farther in his new member period. Wouldn't that throw up a red flag to a parent to talk to their kid about telling these people that the org isn't worth it?? Calling school administrators???

Just a thought...though unpopular as it may be...shouldn't she as well as the student hazed...hold some responsibility for this tragedy? When I talk to PNM's and hazing comes up, I always tell them to tell hazer to go to hell and leave. In this day and age...you are able to do that!!!

Ok..got this off my chest.
(Edited...left out a word! Oops!)

[texas*princess]

It's always sad to hear these stories :(

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by AXiDTrish
So, we can blame the chapter...yes,
we can blame the individual students.....yes,
we can blame the university, but.....

Just a thought...though unpopular as it may be...shouldn't she as well as the student hazed...hold some responsibility for this tragedy?
Sure. Well, maybe.

What if the young man had survived?

When Mom steps in, folks yell that the son is old enough to take care of himself.

When the university intercedes, the shout of "In Loco Parentis" is heard.

The bottom line is always this: Hazing is illegal.

It shouldn't happen.

Ever.

Chapters and people who haze should be ready to face the consequences.

[AXiDTrish]

And hopefully those involved will be severely punished!!!!

The bottom line, however, he lost his life.

If mom got in his business, the university jumped in, whatever...he would be ALIVE! He would have a future.

We might be fuming about the hazing, bad PR, and the stupid fraternity, but at least the guys life might have been spared.

Hazing might stop if people stepped up when they know it's happening. :(

[33girl]

If this jackass thought getting hazed like this was fun, I'd say it's a pretty good example of natural selection.

[DeltAlum]

That's a little harsh.
There might be some other considerations.

[roqueemae]

Originally posted by AXiDTrish
So, I just read an article on another thread about the mother of this poor student suggesting to stop (fraternity) recruitment because it was degrading to men.

Since this is a local, operating without the influence (is that the right word?) of IFC, how would stopping fraternity recruitment have kept this from happening. They are not IFC. Stopping IFC recruitment does not make sense.

[James]

Damn, i love you 33girl.

I was just about to type: In a world when almost everyone can breed with no survival skills there has to be some extreme cases of darwinism left . . ..


Originally posted by 33girl
If this jackass thought getting hazed like this was fun, I'd say it's a pretty good example of natural selection.

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

a pledge of a non-recognized fraternity at the CSU Chico campus has died recently....here's an article:
Matthew Carrington (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/02/03/BAGIGB497T1.DTL)

This 21 year old died from water intoxication, which I'm sure many of you have heard of (unfortunatley) in hazing practices. Our entire greek system had to attend a meeting where the president of our school spoke, and we watched a movie about a situation eerily similar to ours.

The situation here, to summarize, is there is a fraternity on campus that had been here for a very long time. They began local and got nationally recognized, only to get their charter taken away and then to lose their recognition with IFC and the university due to many infractions including alcohol violations, sexual assault, and MANY fights... yet they continued to remain on campus. So they were completley unregulated and this tragedy has happened.

my question to GCers: have you had similar problems at your schools? what do you think we can do to stop this?

[DeltAlum]

Greek system under fire: Chico State's Zingg delivers strong warning

By MELISSA DAUGHERTY - Staff Writer

Chico State University President Paul Zingg gave a blunt warning to a
majority of Chico's Greek system Sunday evening on the Chico State campus.

Calling the hazing death of Chico State student Matthew Carrington the
"last straw," Zingg put the organizations on notice.

"The university has no intention of waiting around for another death,"
he told about 850 fraternity and sorority members in a packed Bell
Memorial Union auditorium.

Though he didn't outline exactly what the university was willing to do
to stop future incidents, he did say the entire Greek system is under
review.

Policies and procedures, and essentially every other aspect of the
organizations, will be scrutinized before the end of the semester.
That's because, fair or not, incidents of hazing are primarily within
the Greek community, he said.

Himself a former fraternity member, Zingg told students hazing has to
stop if they want the Greek system to survive.

"You are either part of the solution - collectively and every day - or
you are part of the problem," he said.

Urging students to evaluate themselves and their behavior, Zingg said
values, friendship, leadership and integrity are what the
organizations should promote.

They're attributes no one celebrates more strongly, Zingg said.

"And no one will hold you more accountable than I will," he added.

Zingg's warning comes just weeks after Carrington died from water
intoxication, a condition attributed to a hazing ritual in which he
consumed massive quantities of water.

The 21-year-old junior business major was pledging Chi Tau - a
fraternity that lost its university affiliation in 2002 but continued
to operate on its own.

Carrington's death was on the heels of the hazing-related alcohol
poisoning of a Butte College student in another fraternity that is
recognized by Chico State and the Interfraternity Council - the
governing body for Chico State fraternities.

In that case, a 19-year-old Sigma Chi pledge survived a 0.496 percent
blood-alcohol level when he was placed on a ventilator at Enloe
Medical Center.

Sunday's meeting was organized by the IFC. President Nick
Hollingsworth said Zingg was invited to the event to get students'
attention. And his summary of the Greek system was right on target.

During the meeting, students watched a documentary film about a 2003
incident, in which an 18-year-old Plattsburgh State University
student, like Carrington, died from a water-ingestion ritual.

Hollingsworth said he never thought the method would take place in
Chico. Now that it has, the IFC is working on ways to keep that
ritual, and any other types of hazing, from happening again.

He said that 75 percent of each chapters' members, and all new
members, were required to attend the meeting. The message to students
in the Greek system is clear, he said.

"You're either with us or against us," Hollingsworth said. "And if
you're against us, get out."

(Bold type added by DeltAlum)

The University essentially put the Greek System on notice, and the IFC has responded to help. This will be interesting and important to watch to see if Greeks can step up to the task of cleaning up a system that even Greeks on this board have indicated is out of control

[hoosier]

(Anybody know what GLO the pres belongs to?)


No room for error among fraternities


Fraternities are in danger of being eliminated at Chico State University, figuratively taken out behind the barn and shot in the head by the university, just like Pioneer Days nearly 20 years ago.

The Greek community has been warned. But is it listening?

In the wake of one hazing death and one near-death this semester, fraternity and sorority members were summoned to the Bell Memorial Union Auditorium on Sunday night. About 850 showed up, many dressed respectfully in their Sunday best, some perhaps expecting the death penalty.

In a 10-minute speech that was the oratory equivalent of a firm spanking, university President Paul Zingg unloaded. He came across like an angry father, and the students listened attentively. It was so quiet you could hear the other shoe drop.

"I'm not here to give a lecture, or preach a sermon, or deliver a warning," said Zingg. "I'm here to tell you how it is."

He called the death of Matthew Carrington on Feb. 2 "the last straw," but stopped short of delivering perhaps a deserved but perhaps unenforceable penalty eliminating fraternities entirely.

Instead, Zingg said the university will spend the rest of the semester reviewing the Greek system. That task force may indeed decide to get rid of fraternities, though we'd bet the fraternities will get a reprieve. Three months will only dilute the pain and urgency. But we hope harsh changes are in store, because they're needed.

Zingg made it clear that fraternities and sororities can help themselves.

"You are either part of the solution, collectively and every day, or you are part of the problem. ... You are either one, or you are the other. You really don't have a choice in the matter if you expect to survive here," said Zingg.

Zingg, a former fraternity member, apologized that a few fraternity members cloud the majority. He said he realizes fraternities are beneficial. Now is the time to prove it, he said: "If you are not who you claim to be, then you are frauds."

The words were strong, but that's what is needed.

The problem with fraternities is not just the university's battle. Carrington died while pledging a fraternity that's not recognized by the university, but is kept alive by alumni. The city needs the tools to shut down such fraternities. Alumni of all fraternities need to send a message that traditions that involve hazing must stop, rather than encouraging hazing by their silence.

Police and prosecutors need to have better tools to discover hazing and tougher penalties to shut it down.

But most important, students themselves need to speak out against hazing and then live up to their words. Somebody needs to have a conscience. Somebody needs to be the voice of reason. If one person had spoken up for Carrington, instead of allowing fraternity "brothers" to humiliate him, he may be alive. The sin of silence is difficult to bear.

As Zingg said, in more eloquent words, put up or shut up. Prove that fraternities are wonderful organizations by eliminating the pain and humiliation that upperclassmen try to pass off as "traditions." Do that, or disappear.

Zingg's speech was followed by the showing of a documentary on a hazing death in New York that was remarkably similar to the Chico incident another preventable, unnecessary death. As the crowd filed out of the auditorium, the mood was somber. The students seemed to get the message. We'll see.

To read past Enterprise-Record articles on the hazing death, see

RELATED

Feb. 21:
- Greek system under fire: Chico State's Zingg delivers strong warning

Feb. 12:
- Hits and misses: Our take on the week in news

Feb. 10:
- Fraternity may have known about risk

Feb. 6:
- A simple fix to stop hazing

Feb. 5:
- Investigation continuing in fraternity death as story gains national attention
- Vigil for Chico State student draws large crowd

Feb. 4:
- Water intake confirmed as major factor in fraternity pledge's death

Feb. 3:
- Police investigating death of fraternity pledge
- Fraternity has faced problems before
www.chicoer.com.

[DeltAlum]

Good post above.

New Threads are popping up on this story -- three just today, so I am moving them all to this thread...

[exlurker]

. . . and from the Feb. 22 San Jose Mercury News, plus similar stories on various TV stations' sites, including:

http://www.ktvu.com/news/4221085/detail.html

CHICO, Calif. (AP) - A freshman who collapsed from alcohol poisoning at a sorority party at California State University, Chico, over the weekend could face criminal charges, police said.

Chico police are also investigating who provided alcohol to Tara Johnson, who was recovering from the incident.

University police found Johnson, 18, a Sigma Kappa pledge, unconscious at another sorority house during a party Saturday night.

She was taken to Enloe Medical Center where her blood-alcohol level was four times the legal limit for intoxication. Johnson barely survived the overdose, officials said.

Sgt. Ford Porter said police have recommended that prosecutors charge Johnson with being drunk in public.

The incident is the second serious alcohol poisoning case this year at a Chico State fraternity or sorority.

In January, a Butte College student and pledge to Sigma Chi fraternity nearly died in a hazing ritual that raised his blood-alcohol concentration to .496 percent, more than six times the legal limit.

A 21-year-old pledge to Chi Tau, a fraternity that lost its university backing in 2002, died Feb. 2 from heavy water consumption and strenuous exercise during hazing.

On Sunday, Chico State University President Paul Zingg warned the school's Greek system that hazing must stop if fraternities and sororities are to survive.

*****

My personal opinion? Looks like it's time for GLOs to suspend operations at Chico, do hard core "membership reviews" of all chapters, and an inter-Greek campaign for major change, or else just yank the charters en masse and encourage the school to do without Greek life.

[AXiDTrish]

I am amazed that these students aren't being more cautious after the program they listened to!! If an administrator basically threatened my Greek system....I would be very, very careful not to make anything worse!

Then again, she's 18...probably a freshman and chances are she doesn't know her limit yet...though her sisters should have been watching out for her!

[exlurker]

Originally posted by AXiDTrish
I am amazed that these students aren't being more cautious after the program they listened to!! If an administrator basically threatened my Greek system....I would be very, very careful not to make anything worse!

Then again, she's 18...probably a freshman and chances are she doesn't know her limit yet...though her sisters should have been watching out for her!

Or maybe a whole lot of the students just didn't give a rodent's rear about the president's warnings or about the signs of alcohol poisoning.

[DeltAlum]

It's probably worth pointing out at this point that, while they can be related, there can also be a difference between underage drinking and hazing.

Although both need to be dealt with.

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

thanks to whoever moved all the related threads into this one. sorry I'm one of the idiots that didn't do a search first.

I know that a lot of people have A LOT of speculation about what Chico State is like and what goes on here, especially from the poor news streaming out. First of all let me clear it up that the drinking culture is pretty strong here as many of you know. So while it seems pretty extreme that "all" these people keep going to the hospital for alcohol poisoning, in fact many non-greeks (and greeks that don't make the news) make trips to the hospital as well which is very sad and dangerous...but also just comes along with the proportion of people that drink in excess. If you drink enough and for long enough, you might go to the hospital for alcohol poisoning.

But anyway I kind of feel like GCers are putting my school under attack...when you all know first hand that greek stories in the news only reflect the bad and never the good. The greek community here does some seriously positive things for the chico community too. And I feel good things are surfacing from the recent horrible traumas surrounding hazing - the chapter of Sigma Pi formed from old Pi Kapp members when they lost their charter because of Adrian's death, is probably the best fraternity on our campus...Two Sigma Pi's have already been IFC presidents, along with many other offices, and many of the members either run or hold student government positions. The meeting that we recently had with the president was a big eye opener for greeks, and I'm betting that a lot of hazing practices will be slim to none for a long while after this.

Some of you are right, it was the entire greek systems responsibility to ensure hazing wasn't an issue. And we did. We told Chi Tau to shape up or ship out, they kept screwing up so we booted them out of recognition and they stayed. So we tried to kick them out of their house...but Delta Sig alumni own the house and wouldn't have it. We tried to get the city to make them take their letters off...the city didn't care enough. IFC members wanted to make it so any panhellenic sorority that socialed with Chi Tau would not be allowed to social with any other IFC fraternity as incentive for the fraternity to disband- but our greek advisor wouldn't allow it.

There was only so much we could do and we did it. Where we needed the rest of the help was from the university and the city. We needed them to make sure freshman students were aware of the dangers of their parties and their house and we needed the city to cooperate and we needed our own greek advisor to listen to us. We wanted to put real pressure on these guys but we couldn't do it alone. and now it's too late.

I need to shut up but I am really proud of my organization and many of the other respectable greek organizations I connect with. I also really love where I go to school and hate to feel like as a greek Chico State student I am being looked down upon.

FYI: President Paul Zingg was a Sig Ep (forget which school).

[norcalKAO]

I have to agree with Nicolle on this one, although it's sad these situations happen, the fact is that it happens everywhere, not just at Chico State, and although Chico has a reputation as a party school, it's an individuals own choice to get involved in whatever "extra curricular activities" they choose. It's no ones place to judge another or any greek organization simply because of their school, or the actions/events put in motion by others. Furthermore, I've also been told by a friend who happens to go to Chico State that the campus does intend to take action as soon as soon as the police investigation is over.

Nichole

[indieallee]

Very sad story indeed. I don't disagree that the events the fraternity made Carrington do were considered hazing (at least from my perspective), but the situation could have been more complicated.

- Did the pledge have a prior history of seizures or epilepsy? (Yes, everything listed can cause a seizure to occur, but the keyword is can.)

Myself an epileptic, I had my first seizure at 20, strangely enough during a Brotherhood night with pledges. However, there was strictly no hazing occuring and it was just a freak accident. But my neurologist mentioned that a common onset age is around 20, or in the early twenties.

So...?

[PsychTau2]

If the Chico State Greeks are an asset to the community and the school (and I wouldn't know that because I've never been near your school), NOW is the time to show that.

NOW.

Yes, we are all looking at you. For good reason. Same reason we were looking at Colorado State, and Colorado, and Oklahoma, and many other schools last semester. BAD THINGS HAPPENED THERE. No amount of excuses or reasoning will erase that. Chico State is the latest one added to the list.

I'm waiting for someone to STEP UP, MAKE A COMMITTMENT, and TAKE ACTION! Do something different. Undergraduates are the ones that are in the middle of all this...YOU have to give us the answers. I (as a greek advisor) don't want to have to shut down chapters. I want to see the problems fixed. I am so tired of hearing from people "of course hazing goes on here. Everyone knows that."

REFUSE TO CONDONE IT!!

Refuse to have anything to do with the chapters that haze. Put peer pressure on them...make it totally unacceptable. You chapter chooses who they want to socialize with...you don't have to socialize with a group who doesn't live up to your standards (and your greek advisor can't make you). It doesn't have to be a rule...it has to be a choice.

Once again, through a tragedy we have the opportunity to show the world what we are really made of. I'm challenging (no, begging!) ALL Greeks out there....DO SOMETHING!

...or something will be done for you.

(whatever anger you perceive in this message is not focused on any one school, group, or individual. I'm angry about ALL of the behaviors over the past year. Dammit, it's time to stop it!!)

PsychTau

[exlurker]

Update: Eight Charged (4 with manslaughter)

Eight men are expected to be arrested in the "water hazing" death. According to the Associated Press and other reports, four are charged with manslaughter and hazing; the other four with hazing. Example of the reports:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/news/030305ap_nw_chico_hazing.html

[exlurker]

Originally posted by PsychTau2
If the Chico State Greeks are an asset to the community and the school (and I wouldn't know that because I've never been near your school), NOW is the time to show that.

NOW.

Yes, we are all looking at you. For good reason. Same reason we were looking at Colorado State, and Colorado, and Oklahoma, and many other schools last semester. BAD THINGS HAPPENED THERE. No amount of excuses or reasoning will erase that. Chico State is the latest one added to the list.

I'm waiting for someone to STEP UP, MAKE A COMMITTMENT, and TAKE ACTION! Do something different. Undergraduates are the ones that are in the middle of all this...YOU have to give us the answers. I (as a greek advisor) don't want to have to shut down chapters. I want to see the problems fixed. I am so tired of hearing from people "of course hazing goes on here. Everyone knows that."

REFUSE TO CONDONE IT!!

Refuse to have anything to do with the chapters that haze. Put peer pressure on them...make it totally unacceptable. You chapter chooses who they want to socialize with...you don't have to socialize with a group who doesn't live up to your standards (and your greek advisor can't make you). It doesn't have to be a rule...it has to be a choice.

Once again, through a tragedy we have the opportunity to show the world what we are really made of. I'm challenging (no, begging!) ALL Greeks out there....DO SOMETHING!

...or something will be done for you.

(whatever anger you perceive in this message is not focused on any one school, group, or individual. I'm angry about ALL of the behaviors over the past year. Dammit, it's time to stop it!!) . . .

PsychTau

I tend to agree, PsychTau. The San Francisco Chronicle -- just like probably a ton of other media outlets -- is reporting that the president of Cal State-Chico is considering whether to ban fraternities and sororities entirely. The Chronicle's story also has details on the hazing. "Sadistic" is the term.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/03/04/MNGK9BKG681.DTL

[TSteven]

Originally posted by exlurker
I tend to agree, PsychTau. The San Farncisco Chronicle -- just like probably a ton of other media outlets -- is reporting that the president of Cal State-Chico is considering whether to ban fraternities and sororities entirely. The Chronicle's story also has details on the hazing. "Sadistic" is the term.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/03/04/MNGK9BKG681.DTL

"There won't be another time," President Paul Zingg said Thursday. "This is the last straw."

Chico State officials are looking into expelling the four students who attend the university and allegedly were involved in the crime. Zingg said he will decide this spring whether fraternities and sororities at the school, known for its wild parties, will be allowed to remain -- something some fraternity and sorority members resent.

Heidi Hedberg, a sophomore who lives in a sorority house across the street from Chi Tau, said the fraternity "screwed up the entire Chico State Greek system for the rest of us."

[33girl]

If it's a state sponsored school, the most they can do is derecognize the fraternities & sororities and even doing that is questionable in its legality.

If they do do that however, the "good" groups will play by the rules and disband, and more than likely the "bad" groups will continue on (with or without national support) and get even more out of control...with more incidents like this likely to result.

Chico can't kick students out for belonging to off campus groups which is what the Greeks would be. They'll have no way to discipline what goes on or the people who join the groups.

Derecognition never solves problems, it only makes them worse.

Psych Tau is right, this is one situation where the rest of the Greek community have to do something...

IFC members wanted to make it so any panhellenic sorority that socialed with Chi Tau would not be allowed to social with any other IFC fraternity as incentive for the fraternity to disband- but our greek advisor wouldn't allow it.

Why couldn't the sororities make this decision on their own, who cares what the Greek advisor says? If Chi Tau is that big of a-holes, why does anyone WANT to have a mixer with them?? For that matter, the fraternities could do this without the Greek advisor "approving" it. They hear ABC sorority mixed with Chi Tau, and surprise, all the fraternities that have ABC on their social calendar plan to cancel. I don't normally condone things like this but obviously this fraternity is really bad news but they are continuing on because SOMEONE is supporting them.

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

Originally posted by 33girl
Why couldn't the sororities make this decision on their own, who cares what the Greek advisor says? If Chi Tau is that big of a-holes, why does anyone WANT to have a mixer with them?? For that matter, the fraternities could do this without the Greek advisor "approving" it. They hear ABC sorority mixed with Chi Tau, and surprise, all the fraternities that have ABC on their social calendar plan to cancel. I don't normally condone things like this but obviously this fraternity is really bad news but they are continuing on because SOMEONE is supporting them.

I know that my particular chapter never socialed with them for this reason, and I don't even know the exact groups that did. I have a feeling that some sororities still socialed with these guys because....well sadly but honestly enough....not every other fraternity would social with them. This idea was IFC's idea and I don't think it was even brought to panhellenic. I'm not on panhellenic, so I don't know all the details...either way it's in hindsight now, because I doubt Chi Tau will stick around or any sorority would even think about socialing with them now.

[adpiucf]

33 is right. Students will continue to haze other students, regardless of whether the university recognizes those students as an official group participating in a school-sanctioned activity.

Even if they derecognized the Greeks at Chico and those Greeks operated underground, the university would still be able to expel students who caused harm to another student through hazing or other physical torture (which is certainly what the water hazing incident was). Either way, students are not at liberty to torture other students.

On the other hand, if the football team was caught doing this, I wonder if they would be so quick to threaten banning football?

What a screwed up situation-- and not just at Chico. I mean in general. Why is there this inherent human need to absorb groupthink mentality and throw all common sense out the window? No one goes to college and aspires to drink himself to death or to be beaten to a bloody pulp. Is the fear of being ostracised by one's peers really such a deep motivator to do things you know are wrong?

[Tom Earp]

This is just another typical knee jerk reaction.:(

Oh OH OHHHH, a group with a Greek Name did a badie, ergo, kick off all Greeks.:mad:

It makes one wonder just what these supposedly Academians have between their ears?:confused:

We must suffer because of a non sanctioned group. This picture is totally wrong.

Lets get with it Oh Great Brains Of Colleges, it is a single group, or a few individuals of any group that do this sort of thing. If it is the whole group, boot them off campus, if it is a few uncondoned members, boot them off of campus. But to Boot the whole system off of campus?

Does stupid come to mind?


Remember, there is a difference between stupid and ignorant!

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

this is kind of irrelevant...but i just wanted to add that Chico State has no football team :)

but i will say that I personally know many LAX players and I know they have a "hell week" (they even call it this) which I'm sure much hazing goes on during.

[Tom Earp]

Is that LAX or LXA?

There is a big difference!

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Is that LAX or LXA?
Yeah. One is a fraternity and the other is an airport. Or did I get that backwards?

[TxAPhi]

I believe in this case she was refering to Lacrosse?

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by TxAPhi
I believe in this case she was refering to Lacrosse?
I know, but I still like the airport line.

[TxAPhi]

Well that went right over my head then! And you, or maybe just Tom, had me convinced that you were confusing LAX with LXA :D



Edited b/c I couldn't sleep at all last night b/c of a sinus infection and so I am no longer sure if my typing or thinking is coherent... :)

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by TxAPhi
Well that went right over my head then!
Don't feel bad, I'm sure it went over a lot of other heads, too. Obviously, I've spent way too much of my life in airports.

For those who don't know, LAX=Los Angeles International Airport in FAA shorthand.

[roqueemae]

She was talking about the lacrosse team then? I have never heard of it referred to in that way. But then again I have never been to a school with a lacrosse team.

[a CA in CA]

Yeah, she meant the lacrosse team. I went to LaCrosse (as in UW) and we'd say LAX when we meant lacrosse and sometimes even LaCrosse even though LaCrosse is technically LSE and not LAX. Oh, and there's no LXA at LaCrosse!

Betcha never thought you'd see that many lacrosses in one post!

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

I definately meant the LACROSSE team. LXA at my campus is a whole 'nother story....I don't feel like I know enough of the history to repeat it here, but I believe that the group was de-recognized (is that the term??) from this campus not too long ago (like 3, 4, 5 years ago????) for an uknown reason (at least by me). I believe the surviving local fraternal group is called Lambda Pi, who hasn't caused any problems that I know about. They are a pretty small group with low visibility within the greek system, but if they are a good group of guys I hope they grow and are able to obtain national and campus (and IFC?) recognition some day.

[epi_girl]

I heard there was some gathering of the greek orgs recently on campus to discuss next steps for greek life on this campus. I think it was at a national level. anyone know if this is true?

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

yes we had a meeting with the president of the university, as well as our greek advisor. The entire national greek system came along with some of their advisors and national reps, and I believe many local/multicultural were invited but few came. There has already been discussion on this within this thread...basically all that happened was president Zingg made a speech telling us basically how mad/disappointed he was and that the entire greek system will be under review this semester. There was a *slight* underlying threat that all fraternities and sororities will be shut down, but I honestly don't think that will happen. The other part of that meeting was spent watching a video about the water hazing death that occured at SUNY Plattsburgh a few years ago.

[norcalKAO]

So I guess I have a theory, if president Zingg is threatening to shut down the Greek system at Chico State, while making public his plans to re-build the campus, plans of which build over some of the Greek houses located closes to campus, I don't know maybe he's using recent incident as an excuse to be able to remove you from your homes without conflict.

Don't get me wrong I'm about as aware of Chico State's history as the next person, but it seems unlikely that a threat like that would ever be taken seriously unless there was some hidden agenda, I don’t know it just sounds somewhat convenient for him.

Nichole

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

I didn't know about his plans to expand the campus, but I find it REALLY unlikely he would be able to get rid of any of the greek houses. There are only a few close enough to campus for this to make sense in the first place, one being mine (its actually the closest) and we rent our house from the monopoly realtor in town, and so Zingg would need a crapload of money to buy this or any of the houses on this block....plus they are all historically recognized so I doubt he'd be able to tear them down. Next closest would be ADPi and im pretty sure their house is either owned by the same people or their alumni corp...and then after that is Sigma Kappa, and they own the house.

I understand why you would think that, but I honestly don't think that is his motive. I honestly dont think the greek system will get shut down anytime soon either...a lot of houses are at capacity and the sororities are in pretty good shape - why should we suffer because of the guys?? We'll see....but I won't be here anymore if it does shut down.

[33girl]

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
I honestly dont think the greek system will get shut down anytime soon either...a lot of houses are at capacity and the sororities are in pretty good shape - why should we suffer because of the guys??

This is an attitude that I've heard many sorority members and national officers voice - i.e. the girls are fine, step away and let the guys croak. It doesn't work.

The fact that women have relied on the men's groups for years to provide social spaces and opportunities cuts both ways. We've used them so we didn't have to be grownups or liberated women and take liability, now we want to put all the blame on them? I'm sorry, but this kind of crap is why the male/female divide in this country is not closing, is in fact getting larger in the younger generations.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by 33girl
This is an attitude that I've heard many sorority members and national officers voice - i.e. the girls are fine, step away and let the guys croak. It doesn't work.

The fact that women have relied on the men's groups for years to provide social spaces and opportunities cuts both ways. We've used them so we didn't have to be grownups or liberated women and take liability, now we want to put all the blame on them? I'm sorry, but this kind of crap is why the male/female divide in this country is not closing, is in fact getting larger in the younger generations.

33girl - Thank you for saying this.

To share some of the responsibility, some fraternities and/or IFC's are 'pushing back' (for lack of a better phrase) and requiring that only sororities willing to be a co-sponsor for a party/mixer/exchange may be invited *onto* house property for said event.

In other words, while mixers may be held at the fraternity house (because they can have alcohol etc.) only those sororities that sign on as a co-host, and accept joint responsibility, will be (can be?) invited. All this within the guidelines of campus rules and the fraternity's HQ of course.

Note: I would imagine these chapters can still have the random 'house party' where there is a guest list with third party vendors etc.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by 33girl
The fact that women have relied on the men's groups for years to provide social spaces and opportunities cuts both ways. We've used them so we didn't have to be grownups or liberated women and take liability, now we want to put all the blame on them?
This is important. As 33Girl knows, but many don't, a fairly significant percentage of fraternity insurance claims result from damage caused by sorority women who are guests for parties or whatever in fraternity houses.

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

I believe that this is true, but fraternities (in general) have the parties to GET girls to come. I don't really want to get into that whole issue any more than that...but I do want to say that NPC sororities at Chico have a policy that if alcohol is served during a social at the fraternity house (not a 3rd party vendor) then the social is called and the girls usually leave. I don't personally believe we have socials at fraternity houses BECAUSE its ok to drink there (cuz we don't) but that its because the houses tend to be bigger and the guys who live there are more laid back when it comes to having events in the house than say some sorority in-house girls would.

Not saying that all of this isn't gender biased. It is. I don't think its fair to the guys that if a social/party is at their fraternity house and some girl waltzes in with a BAC of .4 and either gets sent to the hospital or dies and that group gets blamed (assuming she drank elsewhere). That totally sucks.

The only point i tried to make before was that most fraternity hazing practices have nothing to do with the sororities. At least not in my experience.

[DeltAlum]

Last school year one or two sororities were charged with hazing at the University of Colorado at Boulder. Those events took place at fraternity houses.

It may not be, probably isn't, the norm, but it does happen.

The real problems come in a couple of areas. Physical damage done to the houses by visiting sorority women, and liability claims for visitors being injured on the property -- like falls down steps, etc. Almost all falls at fraternity houses are alcohol related.

In theory, that couldn't happen at a sorority house because of the (wink, wink) dry housing rules.

So, I don't think it is totally wrong to say that (some) sororities take advantage of the looser rules governing fraternities. Clearly, not always, but enough so that there was an article about it in one of the Risk-Management newsletters I received.

[Tom Earp]

Is it Guys being plyed with the Female prowess to get Guys to do things for them?:)

If some wish to point out that Lets Kick all Male GLOs off of Campus, then what does that leave the Soros to do? Dont say go raid the Dorms for Male comanionship and run outs or parties.

Oh, maybe raid the Jock Dorms, and then what?:o

It is a two way street for Greeks. We have more on the ball if sanity prevails than Independents. Socially that is. It just has to be used with some sense.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
So, I don't think it is totally wrong to say that (some) sororities take advantage of the looser rules governing fraternities. Clearly, not always, but enough so that there was an article about it in one of the Risk-Management newsletters I received.

AlphaPhiBubbles - this is not directed toward you, your chapter, or Chico State specifically. Just replying from a fraternity point of view with what may (may) be coming down the line - i.e. mixers/socials etc. - due to what, as DeltAlum wrote, "(some) sororities [taking] advantage of the looser rules governing fraternities."

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
I believe that this is true, but fraternities (in general) have the parties to GET girls to come.

True. And that won't change. But what very well may change is that instead of inviting over a whole sorority chapter for a mixer, the fraternity will find it just as easy to have a guest list and invite individual women. Thus, the sorority chapters that do not step up and take joint responsibility for a mixer, may very well be left out of social events that take place on the fraternity's propriety or at a third party vendor. The fraternity, on the other hand, who is use to taking responsibility - as it were - will continue to invite - and get - woman to come to their parties. Greek and independent alike.

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
NPC sororities at Chico have a policy that if alcohol is served during a social at the fraternity house (not a 3rd party vendor) then the social is called and the girls usually leave.

And as you noted, "the girls usually leave". What about those who do not leave? Having a sorority show up a mixer saying "We didn't know that alcohol would be present..." (wink wink) isn't going to cut it anymore. The issue isn't just if there is a third party vendor but joint responsibility between fraternities and sororities. Greeks can and do still get trashed at both third party vendor and other events.

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
I don't personally believe we have socials at fraternity houses BECAUSE its ok to drink there (cuz we don't) but that its because the houses tend to be bigger and the guys who live there are more laid back when it comes to having events in the house than say some sorority in-house girls would.

Sure, fraternity houses tend to be larger and able to support both chapters participating in the mixer. Again, this is why fraternities are looking to have mixers - with or without third party vendors - with sororities who will step up with joint responsibility. For the very reason that it is on the fraternity's property. Otherwise, they will move to a guest list. May mean less risk with just as much fun.

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
Not saying that all of this isn't gender biased. It is. I don't think its fair to the guys that if a social/party is at their fraternity house and some girl waltzes in with a BAC of .4 and either gets sent to the hospital or dies and that group gets blamed (assuming she drank elsewhere). That totally sucks.

Which is why having the sorority sign on for parties taking place at the fraternity chapter house may very well be the norm down the line. Fraternities are quick to be blamed for the drinking issues of women when often the women do their drinking else where, yet their passing out at the fraternity.

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
The only point i tried to make before was that most fraternity hazing practices have nothing to do with the sororities. At least not in my experience.

Agree. But you did ask "...why should we [sororities] suffer because of the guys??" Which is why the lengthy replies.


Alcohol abuse is a risk management issue whether it's involved with hazing or at a social mixer. Which is why sororities need to support fraternities in trying to curb alcohol abuse. And if it isn't addressed, then maybe the fraternities will very well be gone. And frankly, I would venture to guess that without IFC fraternities, membership in NPC sororities would decrease dramatically. A key social aspect of being Greek - interaction with fraternities - would be zero. No paring up at Homecoming; no serenading by fraternities; limited Greek Week games/events; no fraternity hosted events such as Derby Day, Watermelon Bust etc. And no socials.

In any case, just as the NPC GLOs pushed to keep alcohol out of sorority houses etc., fraternities are looking at the risks associated with supporting the sororities' drinking habits. (Along with other alcohol related issues.) Frankly, I am sure that many fraternities would hope to continue to host socials. As such, one possible solution is having sororities take responsibility for social events as well - regardless if alcohol is served - so that the fraternity is not blamed when a sorority women shows up at a mixer trashed. As can be the case now.

And a reduction in alcohol abuse may hopefully translate to a reduction in and ending of hazing as well.

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Last school year one or two sororities were charged with hazing at the University of Colorado at Boulder. Those events took place at fraternity houses.

It may not be, probably isn't, the norm, but it does happen. To be clear...i was only talking about my school. I cannot say what happens elsewhere.

TSteven - i appreciate your post and didn't feel attacked...just so you know :) I think you made a lot of really good points.