Old South

[TxTechChiO]

When is your Old South Weekend? I'm not even sure if every chapter has organizes an Old South Weekend.

[KABillyMac]

Southern Belle,
Yes all SOUTHERN chapters have them. The chapters up North have what is called fun week, whatever that is.
Congrats on being a southern belle, I read your post in greek life, our Old South is the first week in April. I'm damn ready to go to.

[dzrose93]

My brother's chapter at Georgia Tech has it's Old South weekend at the end of this month, I believe.

[amycat412]

we had an Old South weekend at Univ of Southern Cal. Usually late March or April.

[KAGent]

Hey Chi-O, We had our Old South TN. this year. All KA chapters have an Old South to celebrate our southern heritage and strong historical background.

[OUKA]

FYI,

All good things were created at the University of Oklahoma. Old South's creation was at the University of Oklahoma and I do not remember a single night.

Boomer Sooner

[nube one]

Just wondering. What exactly is an old south party?

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by nube one
Just wondering. What exactly is an old south party?

Inquiring minds what to know. :)

[KABillyMac]

KA has two crowning jewels that are our formals. Convivium and Old South. Old South is really my chapters biggest formal. It occurs mid spring, and we usually go to a diffrent state for a couple days and nights, have a formal dance, and just hang out. ITs like a mini vacation. Some chapters go in full civil war regalia, the men wear civil war uniforms, and the ladies where full hoop southern belle dresses. Old South is the one formal that all sorority girls want to go to. Its really a good time.

[Honeykiss1974]

Ok, now I think I know what you're talking about. My sister attended Delta State Univ. and I recall looking through her yearbook seeing men dressed in conferate civil war uniforms with "southern belles" sitting in from of them.

Could someone explain to me to meaning behind the "Old South" formal (or party)? I would think that given the history of the "Old South" (lynchings, intimidations, etc.) why would fraternities/colleges continue this tradition? Just curious because I've never heard of this.

[Honeykiss1974]

TIBI,
Calm down amd take a deep breathe! I have not brought any accusations against KA. My question was "Could someone explain to me to meaning behind the "Old South" formal (or party)? I would think that given the history of the "Old South" (lynchings, intimidations,etc.) why would fraternities/colleges continue this tradition? Just curious because I've never heard of this"
I am born and raised in Mississippi, so therefore I certainly do not need you or anyone else to explain to me about southern heritage!
Now, if there is anyone that can provide a calm a rational response to my inquiry, I'd really appreciate it. I see no point in YOU Tibi bringing racial discussions into this conversation.


Originally posted by Tibi
I would think given the history of the antebellum South ( class, etiquette, dignity, standards, etc. ) that one would not hasten to blame the South for racial problems that are STILL happening today. The South is not the source of racism and it should not be blamed. Being Southern is a heritage... a heritage that I am proud of and will not apologize to anyone for! I applaud KA for celebrating it, and exposing many people to an unforgettable experience (that most people, if they have not visited the south never get to experience). I see no point in bringing a racial accusation against a beautiful formal.


"I cannot raise my hand against my birthplace, my home, my children."
Robert E. Lee resigning from the US Army and accepting the Confederate command.

[nube one]

I was the origional "inquiring mind" that wished to be informed about the nature of your "old south" parties specifically for the purpose of not jumping to conclusions about what these gatherings celebrate. I will not argue that every essence of the old south historically has to do with racism or what I prefer to call white supremacy; but there is, was, and for a long time will be rascist connotations (and aptly so) associated with the historical old (and present)south. But the south is not alone in associations with racism, because this whole country is guilty for this crime. However, that is not the issue, nor my wish to turn this into an emotional debate. I am a black northerner, so I know little of the southern culture which is celebrated, yet I know there is more to this culture than what was taught to me. Actually, shortly after I posted the question I turned to the internet to reseach this topic myself so I'm now aware of the basic premise of these parties. Racism is America's tradition, not just the south's. To say so is to be historically inaccurate. Finally I would like to add that racial debates should be encouraged instead of swept under the rug, because the additudes and ideas about the FALLACY of race, including the subsequent heirarchies which followed are still firmly locked in place today whether we talk about them or not. I feel it is the only way to move on as a country and to correct one of the cancers that plague us. Would you avoid talking about (or dealing with) a malignant tumor in your own body because it will be extremely unpleasant? I hope not because that would be the untimely death of you simply for avoiding the obvious. But as I said, my origional purpose was for information so "conclusions" would not be "jumped to".

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by Tibi
"Could someone explain to me to meaning behind the "Old South" formal (or party)? I would think that given the history of the "Old South" (lynchings, intimidations,etc.) why would fraternities/colleges continue this tradition? Just curious because I've never heard of this"


The point of my response was to say that I feel it is unneccessary
that you only associate the antebellum South with lynchings and intimidations. Those two are buzzwords that will immediately start a racially fired debate which would probably be best avoided. However, sice you deny bringing racism into the topic by using those buzzwords, well then, I feel sorry for you if you see no reason to celebrate the REAL Old South. [/B]

Once again , so that everyone has a clear understanding of my intent, I am not asking the question to the meaning of "Old South Weekend" to start a racial debate. I've never heard of it, so what's the best way to gain knowledge about it than by asking the members of KA directly. Fortunately, a member of your org has PM 'd with a "non-hostile" response, so for that, I thank him. I feel sorry for those of you who feel that any inquiry about this Old south tradition is an automatic shot at your org and the south.

[KABillyMac]

Honeykiss, you took the first shot here, a la "lynchings, itimidations". Please begin reading your posts before you argue them.

Old South stemmed from the idea of the class and dignity of the "Old South" (i.e. "The Lost Cause") as portrayed in "Gone With The Wind". At the time of the movies release, one chapter, and I cant remember who it was but I want to say Kappa chapter at Mercer held the first "Old Sounth" ball. It began a trickle affect throughout the rest of the Orders chapters. As a southerner, I am proud of the tradition of Old South. I am who I am, and like Lee, I will never turn my back on my home. Its a direct slap in the face to my organization for anyone to equate this dance to any form of racism, especially given the fact that Kappa Alpha Order has banned the use of any confederate trappings from any KA function, in effort to show the people of our country that our organization is not what so many people automatically assume that our organization stands for.

[nube one]

I forgot to thank KABillyMac for the info also. Good look.

[AchtungBaby80]

I don't see anything wrong with it at all--in fact, I'd loooooove to go! Too bad I don't know any KA's...that's just my luck. :p

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by KABillyMac
Honeykiss, you took the first shot here, a la "lynchings, itimidations". Please begin reading your posts before you argue them.

Old South stemmed from the idea of the class and dignity of the "Old South" (i.e. "The Lost Cause") as portrayed in "Gone With The Wind". At the time of the movies release, one chapter, and I cant remember who it was but I want to say Kappa chapter at Mercer held the first "Old Sounth" ball. It began a trickle affect throughout the rest of the Orders chapters. As a southerner, I am proud of the tradition of Old South. I am who I am, and like Lee, I will never turn my back on my home. Its a direct slap in the face to my organization for anyone to equate this dance to any form of racism, especially given the fact that Kappa Alpha Order has banned the use of any confederate trappings from any KA function, in effort to show the people of our country that our organization is not what so many people automatically assume that our organization stands for.

:rolleyes:

I know what I posted and if you took it in a manner in which it was not given...that is your problem. As far as I am concerned this conversation is over.

[KABillyMac]

"A manner in which it was not given"

No need in rolling your eyes at me, your just beating yourself up here as far as I can see..................

Let me reiterate that the word "lychings" was used in your posts. Now please oh please tell me you were not trying to insinuate something there, really, id like to hear you say that

[xo_sue]

The dance idea sounds like a fun idea! Who wouldn't love to dress up like Scarlette O'Hara, have her size waist and Redd Butler's shoes under their bed!!! :)

[West Texas KA]

The reason for the old south Tradition is this. When the movie Gone with the Wind came out it was a huge "must see movie" in the U.S. Being that KA holds true to the traditions of gentelmenly conduct and southern hospitality anyway it was really a great movie for KA. In the opening lines of the movie it says that the "Old SOuth is Gone with the Wind." I belive it was the Mu chapter from Oklahoma (but I could be wrong) that started the old south formal. This was back when the movie came out in the 30's. They rented costumes from the movie to have an "Old SOuth Ball" They continued to have this party year after year. Eventually it just spread through the Order. KA does in fact hold true to the ideeals of the south and Robert E. Lee. That does not mean that we are racist or anything like that. There are many very cool brothers I have in KA that are african american. We just think that the history of our Order and the time period in which we were founded is something we want to hold on to. Hope this clears things up a little.

"For God and the Ladies"

[West Texas KA]

SOrry KABillyMac
I did not read your post before I did mine.:D

[ROWDYsister]

Originally posted by KABillyMac
KA has two crowning jewels that are our formals. Convivium and Old South. Old South is really my chapters biggest formal. It occurs mid spring, and we usually go to a diffrent state for a couple days and nights, have a formal dance, and just hang out. ITs like a mini vacation. Some chapters go in full civil war regalia, the men wear civil war uniforms, and the ladies where full hoop southern belle dresses. Old South is the one formal that all sorority girls want to go to. Its really a good time.

Totally right. From the very beginning of my pledgeship, older sisters would joke, "Make friends with KA, you're going to want to go on Old South." And it was like an obsession for some girls (also from other sororities).

My sister/best friend was invited to Old South this past Spring, and it seems awesome! I helped her with her costume, driving all over town for dresses (of the dresses the house rented, not many good ones were left) and helping with her choker.

When KA went announcing to sorority girls who were invited, it was a good little show. They were all dressed in their Confederate uniforms (and I think they may have had rifles, too) and had this whole little speech declaring the select few "Dixie Darlings."

They got to party on a plantation and have the actual formal on a paddleboat (or a steamboat? whatever). It's just a good time and a tradition, no need to unnecessarily worry about bad images of the Old South.

[MoxieGrrl]

*sighs* My boyfriend is a KA, and unfortunately, not a very financially secure chapter. When I found out about this KA tradition through Greek Chat, I begged him to convince his chapter to have one! Maybe one day they will and we can go back as alum......and then I'll be the "fading Southern beauty." :)

[CarolinaDG]

My ex is a KA as well, and that was one of the first things that girls said to me when he started pledging... "You'll get to go to Ole South!!!!" I was really excited, but he was still pledging and didn't want to spend the money as a pledge. But, I'll speak from what many believe as the heart of the confederacy (South Carolina) that southern pride is HUGE here. If people don't have on a confederate belt, then they'd better have a state flag posted somewhere. "Your parents are northern? Well, it's all right as long as you yourself have lived in the south all your life." KA's seen as one of the best fraternities in this state, because they stand for everything that we love about our state. And you always know a KA's coming when you hear the old, "Hail to General Lee!"

[RyanQK]

Well we just had our old south last week, Nov. 23, it was a blast. Only we couldnt find civil war uniforms, well not affordable ones anyway.

Ryan ZN Chapter

KA by the grace of God!

[BadMuthahKA]

Old south wasn't started at Oklahoma. It was started at Kappa Chapter at Mercer, in Macon GA.

KA

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by BadMuthahKA
Old south wasn't started at Oklahoma. It was started at Kappa Chapter at Mercer, in Macon GA.

KA

Right after the "Gone With The Wind" premiere took place in Atlanta, correct?

[kappaaplha9969]

My chapter here at Sam Houston State Univ. (Gamma Tau) has its OLD SOUTH this year during Memorial Day Weekend!! We are going to South Padre and gonna have a blast

[CardinalSM]

Originally posted by BadMuthahKA
Old south wasn't started at Oklahoma. It was started at Kappa Chapter at Mercer, in Macon GA.

KA

Hooray for the Kappa Chapter at Mercer! We did homecoming with them this year and they are a great group of guys! THey just had their Old South a few weekends ago and I heard that it was a great time!

[kristi_ann81]

I was a KA "little sister" (as we were called at our school) and had the pleasure of going to Old South one year. It was fantastic! However, it was the only one we had while I was in college due to a chapter with a small budget and lack of organization. Shame really, but we were a small school. All of the elaborate Old South formals at other schools sound like so much fun!

[AndrewNickatina]

Old South Sound Week sounds pretty cool....my chapter had it planned for this year the week leading up to our formal in San Diego at the Hyatt but that never happened. I was kinda pissed about it cuz the southern chapters make it their biggest event and we dont even have it

[PhiFriend]

I have read these posts and they are somewhat amusing.
I understand that the KA of TODAY is trying to distance itself from the racial undertones of what "Old South" implies to the PC present in which we live. But, let's face it...once upon a time the KA organization didn't give two hoots what people thought about connecting the love of the Old South with Racism. My dad was a KA in the 60s in Texas and they actually hired local black boys to ride on horseback to the sorority houses to deliver their invitations to Old South Ball!!!

You can paint it any color you like to make yourself feel better about the "intended meaning" of KA's connection to the "Old South" and the way the organization is NOW...but, tell me, if the KKK suddenly welcomed members of all races and decided that from today on, burning a cross stood for equality, would you wonder why some people would be hesitant to join?

In the end...perception is reality.

[Kappa03]

The Brothers of KAPPA Chapter take great pride in our rich heritage that we arw so fortunate to be a part of. KAPPA is known throughout the ORDER as a chapter steeped in heritage dating back to our founding on November 12, 1873.

OLD SOUTH...A KAPPA CHAPTER ORIGINAL!
Originally called "Dixie Ball," the ball was first inspired by GONE WITH THE WIND. The idea struck fire and the rest is history. Today, every KA chapter across the nation celebrates Old South Ball each spring. Kappa Chapter continues this great tradition in a weeklong celebration with events including Bourbon on the Lawn, ShareCropper's Stomp, and of course, The Old South Ball, where Kappa Chapter Brothers wear their Confederate Uniforms and the ladies wear old fashioned hoop dresses. The Confederate Uniforms used in the first Dixie Ball came from Atlanta Costume and were the same uniforms used in GONE WITH THE WIND.

[gphib_95]

I always wanted to go to Old South when I was in college. :(

[MIDNJT]

I am a brother of the Epsilon Lambda chater at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio (Miami of Ohio). We were the first chapter of KA founded above the Mason-Dixon line.
While technically we are the first northern chapter we still are able to keep most of our southern traditions. We have a large portrait of Lee above our fire place (at first glance many yankees that come into our house are like "what is that??". But oh well, they just don't know...)
We also have an "Old South Week" and we do have an "Old South Ball" which we are having in Gatlinburg, Tenn. at the end of April. Convivium is one of the most popular social events on campus and girls are very excited when they are asked as dates. We never forget that we are toasting Robert E. Lee.
I would say the main difference between our Old South Ball is the fact that brothers don't wear confederate uniforms and the girls don't wear civil war era dresses. Just suits and dresses. Unfort. it would be looked down upon in Ohio to wear such a uniform, and many of the girls from the north probably wouldn't understand.
However, during Old South Week the out-of-house brothers do "secede" from the brothers living within the chapter house. (about 50 brothers live in the house and 50 live out-of-house)
It is a great week.
While most of our members are from Ohio many are from the south and several from the deep south. I am personally from Virginia only a couple minutes away from General Lee's original home and my family as a portrait of Lee in our family room.
While we can't keep all of the southern traditions (which is against our desires) we strive to remember our heritage.
Our greek system is large, over 25 fraternities and almost 20 sororities, and while we are one of only a few traditionally southern fratnries (but the only true southern fraternity, I believe SAE is also traditionally southern) we are still considered the best fraternity on campus.
Brothers, our southern legacy does prevail in the north and I hope that we can continue our bonds despite the location of our chapter houses.

[IACutieHootie]

ohhh! I went to Old South this year! We had ours in Vicksburg, talk about Southern Heritage!

[KA n H-TOWN]

i'm a KA from Houston. Looking for other bros to chat with

[dgmeredith]

My boyfriend is a KA at University of North Carolina, and they have an intire week devoted to Old South, and it most definitly is the most fun I have ever had in my entire life! (And I have to say, it was much more fun with my 5 foot wide hoop skirt!)

[sfoc]

yeah, i was just wondering about the whole old south and different KA traditions too.

i know the KA here hates us (i'm a Lambda Chi). i have a couple good friends in KA and they are awesome guys but i have heard from them that i wouldn't have a chance if rushed them. apparently if you don't fit the southern WASP stereotype they won't even think twice. i wouldn't say thay are blatant racists or anything, but they are def a breed of their own here in TX.


this is the story i heard about why KA typically despises LCA on a national level. i don't know which chapter, but a long time ago the KA's were having Old South, confederate uniforms and all, and they put cotton all over their front lawn. they hired black people to act like slaves and pick it, so the LCA's decided to dress up in union uniforms and they basically 'freed' the black people and started a big fight with the KA's. i dont know how true this is, because what self-respecting black person would act like a slave? but us being from Boston etc, i could totally see KA hating us.

[adduncan]

These have to be VERY local issues. Assuming the stories you heard were even true.

I have yet to hear a KA in Georgia say any such silly thing, and none would suggest the display you mentioned. Plus, KAs in Indiana are anything but "WASPy".

Where is this "hate" *really* coming from?

--add

[sfoc]

oh i know they are local issues and are probably rumors. at chapters like the one at my school and in schools that are very southern, conservative/traditional, traditionally greek run etc i could totally see how some of the rumors could be true.

but yeah, i really do take it all with a grain of salt. it could be the product stupid rivalries. i don't understand why there is always one fraternity that is enemies with another fraternity. why can't we all just get along lol?

[adduncan]

Oh, I read the site, alright. It has all the hallmarks of a parody. You know, a joke?
The message book could have been written by *anyone* - how are you pinning down the blame on one group or another?

KA expells members and pulls charters if this kind of thing were real. You could always call the executive office in Lexington if you really think there's a problem.

But I think someone is just pulling your leg.

--add

[sfoc]

no, no i've actually had my 2 KA friends tell me that guys in their chapter do talk about minorities like that, but hey -- its just my school's chapter. they're not blatantly rascist its more of a kind of understood/hush hush deal here.

yes, i know it was a humorous website to begin with but god i know people that live by it.

if you come to the real south where there are people who still hate the north for what happened in the civil war, and still fly confederate flags, you'll see what i mean (yeah, they say now its for showing pride for everything southern except the slavery and racism part :rolleyes: ). i'm not trying to be like 'oh you don't know what you're talking about' but i live in smalltown texas and have several family memebers who live in small town alabama and southern mississippi where things are still like that.

[CarolinaDG]

I think that the people who are saying that the minority thing is not a problem do not live in the south. I wouldn't peg it to just KA, though. There are certainly brothers who are blatantly racist, but (and I don't know, seeing as how I'm not actually a KA) I would hope that entering into the fraternity there is no requirement to hate black people. My ex even said that there was a black guy that everyone loved who used to come to the KA house all the time. But, you know, it's a fraternity that calls out "hail General Lee" and so you're going to have a bigger population of very southern, conservative, confederate flag-hanging brothers (all things that my ex-boyfriend was... and he was VERY proud of it). I don't know, back to my original point... being in the south, you're going to have SEVERAL different fraternity guys not just from KA who are racist. Those are the jerks that you dump quickly and pick up the one who is great for all the RIGHT reasons... southern gentleman, holds doors, takes you out to nice dinners, and does everything in his power to hold you high on a pedastal. THAT's the KA I remember dating...

[DGMarie]

http://community.webshots.com/album/336223686YuGDLI

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