Iran hangs 16 yr old girl for having a “sharp tongue”

[The1calledTKE]

On Sunday, August 15, a 16-year-old girl in the town of Neka, northern Iran, was executed. Ateqeh Sahaleh was hanged in public on Simetry Street off Rah Ahan Street at the city center.

The sentence was issued by the head of Neka’s Justice Department and subsequently upheld by the mullahs’ Supreme Court and carried out with the approval of Judiciary Chief Mahmoud Shahroudi.

In her summary trial, the teenage victim did not have any lawyer and efforts by her family to recruit a lawyer was to no avail. Ateqeh personally defended herself. She told the religious judge, Haji Rezaii, that he should punish the main perpetrators of moral corruption not the victims.

The judge personally pursued Ateqeh’s death sentence, beyond all normal procedures and finally gained the approval of the Supreme Court. After her execution Rezai said her punishment was not execution but he had her executed for her “sharp tongue”.

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=80

[Rudey]

This is the government ushered in by France and supported by the filthy Europeans.

-Rudey

[NickLc24]

The number of cases similar to the above in that worldly region would surprise many.

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Originally posted by NickLc24
The number of cases similar to the above in that worldly region would surprise many.

Kind of like the history of Christianity?
Joan of Arc, Salem Mass, Spanish Inquisition, the list goes on.

(which again brings up my odd opinion: Abraham should have kept it in his pants. )

ETA: the US only sentences persons who were minors when they perpetrated their crime to execution, but doesnt execute minors, does this mean that Europe will focus more attention on Iran who does execute minors?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
Kind of like the history of Christianity?
Joan of Arc, Salem Mass, Spanish Inquisition, the list goes on.

(which again brings up my odd opinion: Abraham should have kept it in his pants. )

ETA: the US only sentences persons who were minors when they perpetrated their crime to execution, but doesnt execute minors, does this mean that Europe will focus more attention on Iran who does execute minors?

How many years ago in the history of Christianity did that occur??

-Rudey

[AnchorAlum]

Joan of Arc, Salem, Spanish Inquisition...

Any events within one hundred years or so, other than the Holocaust or perhaps the genocide of the First Americans? Just hoping to keep things relative.

I'd like to think we don't hang young women, or take them to soccer stadiums and blow their heads off in front of men for sport, or force female circumcisions to take place, all for no other reason than the fact they were born without a male sex organ.

I mean, two of the three you mention involved only women losing their lives. The analogy might work for the sexism involved.

I wonder if 16 year old Iranian boys get hanged for "smart mouths".

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by AnchorAlum
I mean, two of the three you mention involved only women losing their lives. The analogy might work for the sexism involved.The way a nation treats its women is a good barometer for general oppression. Even focusing on non-violent things like literacy rates offers a loose, but real correlation to the type of violent punishment that this girl received. For example, in Iran, men have an 85.6% literacy rate, while women have a 73% literacy rate.
source: http://cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html

[AnchorAlum]

Actually, that's high for a quasi-third world country.

You have a point. "Keep 'em all dumb and under your thumb" seems to be the order of the day in some parts of the world.

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Originally posted by Rudey
How many years ago in the history of Christianity did that occur??

-Rudey

How many years younger is Islam?

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
How many years younger is Islam?


Dude . . . ugh, you're ridiculous



There is no temporal aspect to this, no relativistic temporal comparison that would infer that islam, being "younger", should allow basic human rights violations.

Of all your silly ass attempts to justify yourself, this one takes the cake. Brutal, honestly.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
How many years younger is Islam?

Why don't you go to Iran and let them know you're gay and want to be just like them.

-Rudey
--See what they say.

[James]

Lets be careful about the sexual preference jokes guys.

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by NickLc24
The number of cases similar to the above in that worldly region would surprise many.

What is that supposed to mean? Please expand your hypothesis.

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Originally posted by KSig RC
Dude . . . ugh, you're ridiculous



There is no temporal aspect to this, no relativistic temporal comparison that would infer that islam, being "younger", should allow basic human rights violations.

Of all your silly ass attempts to justify yourself, this one takes the cake. Brutal, honestly.

Did I say they should allow human rights violations? No.
Did I note that they are doing the same thing that Christians did at about the same time in their development? Yes.
If you look in Saudi Arabia, Europe and the US you can see the budding of a potential reform movement within the Islamic faith, in most cases almost as a response in anger of those who have taken the faith to fundamentalist extremes and warped it to promote violence in the name of Allah. Will it develop into an actual reform movement? I dont know, I dont pay enough attention- I have noticed Saudi Arabia having relaxed regulations allowing a greater freedom of speech which would work in favor of those wanting to fight against fundamentalists from within the Islamic faith. But currently it is still a battle of fundamentalists and religious conservatives vs. "western culture" instead of fundamentalists/hardliners/religious-conservatives vs. reformers.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
Kind of like the history of Christianity?
Joan of Arc, Salem Mass, Spanish Inquisition, the list goes on.

(which again brings up my odd opinion: Abraham should have kept it in his pants. )

ETA: the US only sentences persons who were minors when they perpetrated their crime to execution, but doesnt execute minors, does this mean that Europe will focus more attention on Iran who does execute minors?

John Calvin had a 16 year old executed for the same reason.

But that was 400 years ago, so I don't see how it has any bearing on today's society.

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Originally posted by ktsnake
John Calvin had a 16 year old executed for the same reason.

But that was 400 years ago, so I don't see how it has any bearing on today's society. Just showing that many world religions are violent at some point and all are constantly adjusting and changing to meet the collective viewpoints of their members. Many in high places get off of founding---> bad things happen. Many want change---> change happens, but often slowly.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
Just showing that many world religions are violent at some point and all are constantly adjusting and changing to meet the collective viewpoints of their members. Many in high places get off of founding---> bad things happen. Many want change---> change happens, but often slowly.

You haven't shown anything. Islam in its beginnings was a peaceful religion. In fact, after conquering Northern Africa, Spain, etc., that area experienced a real golden age in terms of art, religious freedom, architecture, technology, etc. The current Jihadist Islam is more of a creature of nationalism mixed with religion than anything else (a hell of a dangerous thing).

Yes, religious movements do change. They change due to outside and inside influences. That doesn't in any way justify or explain the condoning of some of the brutal things they do in their societies. This is the 21st century, NOT the 17th. The standard isn't the same. We and they have far more collective knowledge, a bigger picture of the world, etc. This is not as simple as John Calvin having a teenager executed in Zurich for talking back to his parents.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by moe.ron
What is that supposed to mean? Please expand your hypothesis.

Umm dude for someone who says you don't know a lot about the Arab region you sure do question a lot of what people say about it.

Now seriously, when you get mutilated in public for a "crime" of morality/indecency I think that's pretty messed up you know?

-Rudey

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Originally posted by Rudey
Now seriously, when you get mutilated in public for a "crime" of morality/indecency I think that's pretty messed up you know?

-Rudey

something we agree on.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
Did I say they should allow human rights violations? No.
Did I note that they are doing the same thing that Christians did at about the same time in their development? Yes.
If you look in Saudi Arabia, Europe and the US you can see the budding of a potential reform movement within the Islamic faith, in most cases almost as a response in anger of those who have taken the faith to fundamentalist extremes and warped it to promote violence in the name of Allah. Will it develop into an actual reform movement? I dont know, I dont pay enough attention- I have noticed Saudi Arabia having relaxed regulations allowing a greater freedom of speech which would work in favor of those wanting to fight against fundamentalists from within the Islamic faith. But currently it is still a battle of fundamentalists and religious conservatives vs. "western culture" instead of fundamentalists/hardliners/religious-conservatives vs. reformers.

Look at the Anglo boy talk about culture outside the Iowa cornfields.

-Rudey
--It's so cute! :)

[Rudey]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
something we agree on.

But you're OK with it as long as it's not Judaism or Christianity?

-Rudey

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Originally posted by Rudey
But you're OK with it as long as it's not Judaism or Christianity?

-Rudey
If you've noticed whenever someone comments closely to "oh Islam is a violent religion" I bring up examples of the violence of Christianity. I haven't brought up much of the violence of Judaism, but those can be found in the bible.

ETA: I should find some of the violence of Hinduism, but since the majority of users on here are American and the majority of Americans are Christian, I dont think such examples would be useful.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
If you've noticed whenever someone comments closely to "oh Islam is a violent religion" I bring up examples of the violence of Christianity. I haven't brought up much of the violence of Judaism, but those can be found in the bible.

ETA: I should find some of the violence of Hinduism, but since the majority of users on here are American and the majority of Americans are Christian, I dont think such examples would be useful.

The violence of Judaism? Geez kid give it a rest. You know nothing about religion it seems yet you're on here constantly showing how you dislike it. You don't want religion, fine. But respect it.

-Rudey

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by Rudey
Umm dude for someone who says you don't know a lot about the Arab region you sure do question a lot of what people say about it.

Now seriously, when you get mutilated in public for a "crime" of morality/indecency I think that's pretty messed up you know?

-Rudey

I misread what he said. I thought he said "The number of cases similar to the above in that worldly religion would surprise many," not worldly region. Is Iran part of the Arabic world? I always thought it wasn't.

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Originally posted by moe.ron
I misread what he said. I thought he said "The number of cases similar to the above in that worldly religion would surprise many," not worldly region. Is Iran part of the Arabic world? I always thought it wasn't.
I think I misread that as well.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by moe.ron
I misread what he said. I thought he said "The number of cases similar to the above in that worldly religion would surprise many," not worldly region. Is Iran part of the Arabic world? I always thought it wasn't.

Iran is not Arab. In fact they hate the comparison and call it what you want (I'm not sure if it's racism) but they look down on Arabs quite a bit. However, it is still within the Arab region physically, economically, etc.

-Rudey

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Originally posted by Rudey
You don't want religion, fine.

-Rudey
False Statement.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

There are so many places around the world where girls and women are considered a burden and disposable. It's so sad.

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by Rudey
Iran is not Arab. In fact they hate the comparison and call it what you want (I'm not sure if it's racism) but they look down on Arabs quite a bit. However, it is still within the Arab region physically, economically, etc.

-Rudey

Do you have any hypothesis why the Iranian look down at the Arabs? Does it have to do with the perception of the Iranian being more "civilized" then the Arabic world?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by moe.ron
Do you have any hypothesis why the Iranian look down at the Arabs? Does it have to do with the perception of the Iranian being more "civilized" then the Arabic world?

Yes and no. I can't describe it but Arabs are seen as nomads (putting it kindly without the rest of how they're viewed). It's definitely with Arabs but also other races and cultures.

-Rudey

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
Did I say they should allow human rights violations? No.
Did I note that they are doing the same thing that Christians did at about the same time in their development? Yes.
If you look in Saudi Arabia, Europe and the US you can see the budding of a potential reform movement within the Islamic faith, in most cases almost as a response in anger of those who have taken the faith to fundamentalist extremes and warped it to promote violence in the name of Allah. Will it develop into an actual reform movement? I dont know, I dont pay enough attention- I have noticed Saudi Arabia having relaxed regulations allowing a greater freedom of speech which would work in favor of those wanting to fight against fundamentalists from within the Islamic faith. But currently it is still a battle of fundamentalists and religious conservatives vs. "western culture" instead of fundamentalists/hardliners/religious-conservatives vs. reformers.

A "reform movement" to prevent hanging 16 yr olds w/ sharp tongues is budding? cute - I'd be loathe to make this an Islamic thing, though, ace, and quick to make it an Iranian Government thing. Is the Iranian Government at a similar point to the American Government during the Salem With Trials? Oh - that's not a valid comparison? Weird, who would have thought.

Your explanation of your thesis here is a strawman, btw, and carries no weight. The religious development cannot be compared w/ relative 'age' due to the different social and societal pressures of the actual ages in which the growth occured, even if this were a religious issue (which it, thankfully, really is not). In reality, the fight against fundamentalism strawmans the topic at hand.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Rudey
Iran is not Arab. In fact they hate the comparison and call it what you want (I'm not sure if it's racism) but they look down on Arabs quite a bit. However, it is still within the Arab region physically, economically, etc.

-Rudey

As our Iranian clients have instructed me, they are Persian, not Arab.

[Allmixedup311]

rudey, i'd encourage you to check out protest warrior (www.protestwarrior.com) i think you'd like it.


Originally posted by Rudey
Yes and no. I can't describe it but Arabs are seen as nomads (putting it kindly without the rest of how they're viewed). It's definitely with Arabs but also other races and cultures.

-Rudey

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Allmixedup311
rudey, i'd encourage you to check out protest warrior (www.protestwarrior.com) i think you'd like it.

That site is great.

[AnchorAlum]

The Iranians are very clear about being the descendants of the ancient Persians. They see themselves as a separate people. As do the Iraqis, for that matter.

The Iranians who came over here after the Shah was deposed were in many cases the elite, urban, well-educated supporters of the Shah. They have become very much a part of Western society while remaining Muslim. I know a few and have been neighbors with a few. They are successful, industrious, and very engaging.
This is why the mullahs are so pathetic in my opinion, and also why Iran is brimming with young people who want the mullahs and the hard liners gone. And why it would be such a shame to be goaded into attacking them because of what those old buzzards say.

I just cannot get past the idea that any civilization would want to surrender 50% of its brain power because they demand women be subservient. And to kill one for being "smart tongued"? :mad:

[Allmixedup311]

Originally posted by ktsnake
That site is great.

Yeah I am trying to go to liberty rising but its a bit of a hike. you join a chapter ktsnake?

[wrigley]

Wouldn't this situation warranted involvement of Amnesty International? But I guess since she's already dead it's too late.

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by wrigley
Wouldn't this situation warranted involvement of Amnesty International? But I guess since she's already dead it's too late.

Amnesty International's Statement (http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=80256DD400782B8480256EF9005CC228)

[Rudey]

Originally posted by moe.ron
Amnesty International's Statement (http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=80256DD400782B8480256EF9005CC228)

What a useless organization.

-Rudey

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Allmixedup311
Yeah I am trying to go to liberty rising but its a bit of a hike. you join a chapter ktsnake?

Nah, I prefer to work from within the establishment ;)

I also don't like the weirdos that these types of groups seem to attract on either side of the aisle. There just isn't room in these groups for someone like me who might be called a "social liberal":eek: I'm for things like gambling, gay marriage, drug legalization, etc. That just doesn't jive with a lot of folks in these groups and I don't like having to explain myself and my views to them.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
If you've noticed whenever someone comments closely to "oh Islam is a violent religion" I bring up examples of the violence of Christianity. I haven't brought up much of the violence of Judaism, but those can be found in the bible.

ETA: I should find some of the violence of Hinduism, but since the majority of users on here are American and the majority of Americans are Christian, I dont think such examples would be useful. There is a difference in time frames. Biblical violence in Judaism occurred long, long ago, and on a scale that is much smaller than what was done in the name of other religions. It was never systemic, and it really was just isolated to individuals who happened to be Jewish.

The systemic violence done in the name of Christianity was also done a long time ago.

The systemic violence done in the name of Islam reflects the relative immaturity of the religion. Islam has yet to go through some type of enlightenment that reconciles its religious fundamentalism with secular arts and sciences. On one level, Islam is no different than other religions at other points in their history.

What makes the current struggle within Islam different is that it is occurring after the advent of mass media and WMD. These are realities that can not be ignored. Jihadist Islam has to face tougher scrutiny and opposition because the stakes are so much differnet, and so much higher than ever before.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
Kind of like the history of Christianity?
Joan of Arc, Salem Mass, Spanish Inquisition, the list goes on.

While I am certainly a Christian, I wanted to thank you for pointing this out. What people do in the name of a religion should not be taken as what is embodied by that religion.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
While I am certainly a Christian, I wanted to thank you for pointing this out. What people do in the name of a religion should not be taken as what is embodied by that religion. That reminds me of a dialogue that Ghandi once had. He was asked, "what's the best thing about Christianity?" Ghandi answered, "Jesus." He was then asked, "what's the worst thing about Christianity?" He answered, "Christians."