Re-inventing the D9 sororities?

[CardioRNNP]

Is it me?, or are these new black greek sororities trying to re-invent sororities of the D9? You be the judge.

http://www.geocities.com/sigma_beta_xi_03/home.html


http://www.geocities.com/ldjones2601/index.html


http://www.deltalambdadelta.com/

:confused:

[wrigley]

Woah :eek:

I hope they got permission to use those Nationals letters on that artwork.

http://www.geocities.com/xilambdachi/purpose.html

[MeezDiscreet]

YEP

oh, and it's pretty wack that they would re-do DELTAtude...

http://www.geocities.com/xilambdachi/xlchat.jpg

[MeezDiscreet]

actually, all of this artwork is wack...

http://www.geocities.com/xilambdachi/pamper.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/xilambdachi/world.jpg

[blackerican]

Originally posted by MeezDiscreet
YEP

oh, and it's pretty wack that they would re-do DELTAtude...

http://www.geocities.com/xilambdachi/xlchat.jpg

Ditto Soror. I've seen these organizations on EverythingBlack.com!! My one word answer is...Whoa!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by CardioRNNP
Is it me?, or are these new black greek sororities trying to re-invent sororities of the D9? You be the judge.

http://www.geocities.com/sigma_beta_xi_03/home.html


http://www.geocities.com/ldjones2601/index.html


http://www.deltalambdadelta.com/

:confused:


How you feeling, Ms. Carla?

**rocking back and forth like Miss Sophia at Christmas** CON fused. :(

[MeezDiscreet]

i mean, really, why do you need to create a sorority for women with children? it's not as if they are excluded from other sororities. and to create a sorority where it doesn't matter what your g.p.a. is?? huh? if you can't even get a 2.5 in college, being in a sorority shouldn't be your main concern.

if you want to have an unwed mothers group, does it have to be a sorority? that's my thing. WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE A SORORITY?? i don't think that these groups are forming out of necessity but rather interest or even issue. when we, the "fabulous four" as i heard us referred to recently, formed, it was because the racial and community climate of the time necessitated it. and, might i add, we haven't lost our relevance. now you got groups, clubs, and cliques (which is what they are) forming and all they are trying to do is re-invent the wheel.

[TheEpitome1920]

Originally posted by MeezDiscreet
when we, the "fabulous four" as i heard us referred to recently, formed, it was because the racial and community climate of the time necessitated it. and, might i add, we haven't lost our relevance. now you got groups, clubs, and cliques (which is what they are) forming and all they are trying to do is re-invent the wheel.

I call it Founder-itis. I personally don't think its a good idea but if there are women out there who feel their needs aren't being address by ANY organization that currently exists then more power to them. This conversation reminds me of discussions on the abundance of LGLOs. People need to RESEARCH before they create. And why do they have to mimic the Fab 4?? Be original and add something new to the mix.

[BirthaBlue4]

Well, to play devil's advocate, sometimes women (and men) feel that our orgs are very exclusive and clique-ish. They may have gotten a bad impression of us from our own members (it happens, lets not hide it in the closet). So beacuse of whatever happened to tarnish our image in their eyes, they decided to do their own organization. This MAY explain why they do things like this.

Personally, I figure to each her own. Its really got nothing to do with me. They're not trying to be exactly like SGRho, or one of the other F4 women and stealing our stuff EXACTLY, so let them do them. If we're gonna say, "well, yall gotta pick one of us 4", then that's in a way hypocritical to DST, ZPhiB and SGRho, because with that attitude, we're all "copying" AKA. And its not EVEN like that. Let's use our energy and work on improving our images so that people won't want to start their own organizations, so that the F4 can blow up to even grander proportions.

[gamma_girl52]

Well...

I know one of the girls in XLC (saw her in the pic). She's aGamma Sig now, so I'ma have to ask her about all of this.

[Boom_Quack13]

Originally posted by BirthaBlue4
If we're gonna say, "well, yall gotta pick one of us 4", then that's in a way hypocritical to DST, ZPhiB and SGRho, because with that attitude, we're all "copying" AKA. And its not EVEN like that. Let's use our energy and work on improving our images so that people won't want to start their own organizations, so that the F4 can blow up to even grander proportions.

Sistergreek, I have to disagree with you. I can't speak for Zeta or SGRho, but I can assure you that Delta Sigma Theta does not "copy" AKA in any way. I know where you're going with your statement, but it's not even close to being accurate when it comes to my sisterhood. We all have things in common, but that in no way implies "copying."

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by Boom_Quack13
Sistergreek, I have to disagree with you. I can't speak for Zeta or SGRho, but I can assure you that Delta Sigma Theta does not "copy" AKA in any way. I know where you're going with your statement, but it's not even close to being accurate when it comes to my sisterhood. We all have things in common, but that in no way implies "copying."

My issue is why does every "org" have to be a sorority? Why can't you be a single mom support group and just leave it at that? Why do you have to have colors, hand signs, etc. etc. etc.

There are single moms all over the world. Why can' they just join or get a Yahoo group to chat and debate and discuss? Why does everything have to be a SORORITY? Because that implies there is a line of sorts and initiation of sorts. Why do they have to have Greek letters? Why do they have to utilize Greek art to have graphics? WHY WHY WHY??

[Ms.Thang319]

Those other organizations are just 2 funny. I guess if you can't get invited into one you can just create your own.
Ms. Thang

[jojapeach]

Originally posted by Boom_Quack13
Sistergreek, I have to disagree with you. I can't speak for Zeta or SGRho, but I can assure you that Delta Sigma Theta does not "copy" AKA in any way. I know where you're going with your statement, but it's not even close to being accurate when it comes to my sisterhood. We all have things in common, but that in no way implies "copying."

OMG I'm having a "It's not that serious" moment.

This seems to be a spinoff of all of our organizations that have members that joined for the wrong reasons. I cannot explicitly say that any of the organizations featured in the thread just founded a sorority just to do so, but I earnestly believe that some of these newer BGLOs are being founded just because they can be. I would have to research the org, but I recall a sorority that was founded at Georgia Southern Univ. That sorority was basically a clique founded by some girlfriends, and it eventually dissolved.

Essentially, a lot of people have a core desire to be a part of something, so they make up their own something. If it fills a real void like some of the multicultural and latino orgs, then it's beautiful. I hope they find others to bond with their cause just like the F4 Founders did all those decades ago. If it's superficial and an excuse to wear letters - any letters, it's something they have to deal with. Either way, these orgs' existence don't take shine away from my illustrious sorority, and the other F4 (that's a nice phrase!) sororities already know this.

I don't care if it sounds arrogant. Hmph....

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
My issue is why does every "org" have to be a sorority? Why can't you be a single mom support group and just leave it at that? Why do you have to have colors, hand signs, etc. etc. etc.

There are single moms all over the world. Why can' they just join or get a Yahoo group to chat and debate and discuss? Why does everything have to be a SORORITY? Because that implies there is a line of sorts and initiation of sorts. Why do they have to have Greek letters? Why do they have to utilize Greek art to have graphics? WHY WHY WHY??

Question for you CT....Why not? If these women think being in a sorority will bring them something "extra" that a support group, club, etc. won't bring them, then what is the harm in them calling themselves a sorority?

I understand the feelings around removing one sorority's letters from a piece of artwork and replacing it with another, but I don't understand why people have a problem with other folks just trying to do what ever it is they do.

Someone said that mothers with children can join the D9 sororities and that is true, but I recall a long conversation on her some time ago where many people expressed reservations about extending membership to a single mother with a young child. In addition, even if it is allowed, it is not the norm or the focus. Kinda like with NPC sororities. AA women can certainly join, but I have heard many people say they would not because they were not designed to address their unique issues.

I see it like this. If I am Mr. McDonalds then you opening the Burger Hut and selling hamburgers in your city is not going to effect me. I feel I hav ea great product and people are going to buy happy meals all day and night. If your Burger Hut concept is good, it may grow to the size of my resturants,. On the other hand, if you don't have a good concept you may continue with just one Burger Hut or your Burger Hut may go bankrupt in less than a year.. Either way, I'm still McDonald's with over 100 billion sold! :D

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by Eclipse
Question for you CT....Why not? If these women think being in a sorority will bring them something "extra" that a support group, club, etc. won't bring them, then what is the harm in them calling themselves a sorority?


What are they doing that makes them a sorority?
I honestly could care less what they call themselves.

But imagine if all orgs started calling themselves a sorority:
MADD Sorority
Girl Scouts Sorority
NOW Sorority
NCNW Sorority
Junior League Sorority

I just think that a lot of these orgs choose the name sorority and then replicate existing sororities, including the Fab 4 (I like:)), but why replicate us? Be original.

Fine, they are a meeting a need for single moms. GREAT!! KUDOS but do they HAVE to be known as a sorority or even utilize Greek nomenclature?

We're not going to agree on this and that's fine because I don't know any of these members of this organization although I know A LOT of single moms.

The members of this organization should understand that they are going to receive criticism. They just are. Delta did and still does.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
My issue is why does every "org" have to be a sorority? Why can't you be a single mom support group and just leave it at that? Why do you have to have colors, hand signs, etc. etc. etc.

There are single moms all over the world. Why can' they just join or get a Yahoo group to chat and debate and discuss? Why does everything have to be a SORORITY? Because that implies there is a line of sorts and initiation of sorts. Why do they have to have Greek letters? Why do they have to utilize Greek art to have graphics? WHY WHY WHY??

Why does there only have to be 4 black sororities? Why can't another black group form a sorority? Why does the NPHC have to have a monopoly on the Black Greek letter "market"? Why don't NPC orgs have this same mentality when a new sorority joins NPC?

Why are there TONS of local sororities and they can co-exist with NPC orgs peacefully? HC (as far as we know, anyway) the original 9 NPC orgs (Alpha Phi, Pi Beta Phi, Gamma Phi Beta, Delta Gamma, Delta Delta Delta, Chi Omega, Kappa Alpha Theta, and Kappa Kappa Gamma) didn't have that "the buck stops here" mentality.

Frankly, I highly resent the notion that the NPHC is the be all, end all choice for Black GLOs. But I will answer one of your questions on why it has to be a sorority?

Because it is the respective founders' right and perogative to start one. Period.

ETA: As far as "lack of originality" goes, I think our (Black) culture tends to bite off of others in some way, shape, form, or fashion to begin with and put our own original "twist" on it. So to be fair, the lack of originality argument, while I see where you are coming from, is rather weak.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by jojapeach
OMG I'm having a "It's not that serious" moment.

I would have to research the org, but I recall a sorority that was founded at Georgia Southern Univ. That sorority was basically a clique founded by some girlfriends, and it eventually dissolved.


Was that org called Xi Gamma Phi and did they have a brother fraternity called Gamma Phi Eta?

[33girl]

Originally posted by Rain Man
Why does there only have to be 4 black sororities? Why can't another black group form a sorority? Why does the NPHC have to have a monopoly on the Black Greek letter "market"? Why don't NPC orgs have this same mentality when a new sorority joins NPC?

Why are there TONS of local sororities and they can co-exist with NPC orgs peacefully? HC (as far as we know, anyway) the original 9 NPC orgs (Alpha Phi, Pi Beta Phi, Gamma Phi Beta, Delta Gamma, Delta Delta Delta, Chi Omega, Kappa Alpha Theta, and Kappa Kappa Gamma) didn't have that "the buck stops here" mentality.


Just to make a point, the original 9 NPC groups were NOT necessarily the oldest groups founded.

And I'm also guessing there are STILL women out there who think it's horrible that they let those "teacher sororities" join NPC. My point is that just because everyone's in NPC, it certainly does not mean every sorority is on an equal footing.

NPC isn't going to begrudge anyone the right to start a local, but if that local's copying things from an NPC or if everyone and their sister is starting locals rather than looking into the NPCs already there, then yes, there's going to be fur a flying. ;)

Don't even get me started on the pedicure artwork. :p

[BirthaBlue4]

Originally posted by Boom_Quack13
Sistergreek, I have to disagree with you. I can't speak for Zeta or SGRho, but I can assure you that Delta Sigma Theta does not "copy" AKA in any way. I know where you're going with your statement, but it's not even close to being accurate when it comes to my sisterhood. We all have things in common, but that in no way implies "copying."

:confused: I was in no way saying that we copied ANYONE, what I was saying was that if people want to have the attitude of saying why join/create other orgs to mimic us when there's already 4 orgs, that would be the same thing as saying that every org after AKA copied them, every orf after DST copied them, etc. My point was that to each her own. Like you said yourself, "We all have things in common, but that in no way implies 'copying'". So why all the drama over these girls that are doing their own thing, just like the founders of ALL of our organizations. Why crush their dream, when we fought to have ours realized? Afford them the same opportunity.

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by BirthaBlue4
:confused: I was in no way saying that we copied ANYONE, what I was saying was that if people want to have the attitude of saying why join/create other orgs to mimic us when there's already 4 orgs, that would be the same thing as saying that every org after AKA copied them, every orf after DST copied them, etc. My point was that to each her own. Like you said yourself, "We all have things in common, but that in no way implies 'copying'". So why all the drama over these girls that are doing their own thing, just like the founders of ALL of our organizations. Why crush their dream, when we fought to have ours realized? Afford them the same opportunity.

PREACH, Sands.

[jojapeach]

Originally posted by Rain Man
Was that org called Xi Gamma Phi and did they have a brother fraternity called Gamma Phi Eta?

Thank you. Exactly.

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by Rain Man
Frankly, I highly resent the notion that the NPHC is the be all, end all choice for Black GLOs.

And? So you came in here to tell people that they shouldn't resent these new orgs popping up, but you resent a certain notion? Sooooo what? Well, I don't think you should resent the fact that we are the end all be all. How about that? And I'm not saying that we are, but if I was, I highly resent the fact that you resent the notion that we are the end all be all. :p

And who said we couldn't co-exist peacefully?

You know, when I was a little girl, I HATED when my neice would mimic or mock me. HATED IT. But I LOVED her. And I always supported her, and still do. But I would always complain to my mother that she was copying me. Ooh, it would get on my nerves. But you know what? She did it because she loved me and (for lack of a better word) idolized me. To this day, we are two very different people, and have grown in different directions. I know that my sister resented the way that I would treat my neice from time to time. I'm sure she did. But I wanted my neice to be her OWN person, not a mini-me. Influence is one thing, replication is another entirely. Had my neice been her own person instead of copying the actions of others and adopting their belief systems, she would have had a very different life with less struggle and hardships. Why do we teach our children lessons (e.g., BE YOURSELF) that we don't seem to embrace in real life?

If a new artist came on the scene, and all they did was paint Monet's works, but in different colors, what would people say? If a new recording artist came on the scene and all they did was sing other people's songs and changed a couple of the words, how would they fare on the charts? If you wrote a book, and a new author wrote one just like it, but changed the characters' names and the cover of the book, would it be cool? What would you think if they advertised a brand new game show and then when it came on, it was just a rip-off of another show? Same game, different name and different host, but the same game?

Anyway, I said all that to say this: just like you have the right to resent the fact that we are the be all end all, we have the right to resent WHATEVER we want to.

Yeah, I'm rambling. I'm bored. What? :p

[BirthaBlue4]

Originally posted by Ideal08
If a new artist came on the scene, and all they did was paint Monet's works, but in different colors, what would people say? If a new recording artist came on the scene and all they did was sing other people's songs and changed a couple of the words, how would they fare on the charts?(Puffy and his crew, count the millions) If you wrote a book, and a new author wrote one just like it, but changed the characters' names and the cover of the book, would it be cool?Pick up two "trendy" books at random, odds are... What would you think if they advertised a brand new game show and then when it came on, it was just a rip-off of another show? Same game, different name and different host, but the same game? Watch the Game Show Network for a few hours, its been done. Not to mention Reality TV



All of this happens everyday. I think that what Rain Man was trying to get at (IMO) is it seems as if since there is the NPHC group of sororities and fraternities geared for African Americans, and anyone that chooses to go Greek and does so outside of these ranks are looked at by NPHC members as "copycats", "traitors", and "unnecessary". Yes these groups have colors, symbols, mascots, calls, etc, but maybe they feel this is the protocol for a sorority. Most prominent non-white organizations have these things, so maybe they thought, "Hey, this is how its supposed to go". And that's ok. Do you feel the same way when you see a Latino organization or an MC organization do the same thing? Or are we all too protective of our people and what EVERYONE to fit in the same 9 molds? Again, most of us wouldn't even be here if people felt this way. Look at it as our Founders and our organizations blazed the trail for other African American organizations to rise up as well. Look at it as progress and freedom of choice, not as something to be offended by or to resent. It's counterproductive; it really does waste energy and time. But, to each her own, you are right you can feelhow you want.

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by BirthaBlue4
Or are we all too protective of our people and what EVERYONE to fit in the same 9 molds?

The question is does EVERYONE have to be in a GLO? THAT is the question that CT4 was trying to get at.

ETA: I missed your blue words, lol, don't ask me how. For all the millions that Puff and crew have, there are millions more who don't like it and resent the fact that he has no original music, but all tracks. We have talked about that very thing here on GC. The same with books; I've seen authors copy their OWN work. That sucks, and people complain about it. Girl, don't EVEN get me started on Reality TV.

And I do think that we are protective, but I'm not sure if I think that there is a such thing as TOO protective, y'know? To be honest, these orgs can keep popping up. No one REALLY cares. Like, I bet CT4 didn't call her mom and say, "Ma, you ain't gon' believe what I found out..." No, it's not THAT deep. But we have opinions on everything, y'know? I don't think it's any more counter productive to form opinions about this anymore than it is to form them on the different brands of toothpaste. :)

[BirthaBlue4]

Originally posted by Ideal08
The question is does EVERYONE have to be in a GLO? THAT is the question that CT4 was trying to get at.

No, they don't, but if that's what they want to do, then more power to them. Is it a problem for people to want to have a "sorority" over a "regular" organization? I'm really not seeing what the problem is. :confused:

[CrimsonTide4]

Ditto with Ideal08.

That is all.


KTHXBI!

[allsmiles_22]

Starting a sorority for superficial reasons doesn't bother me. People can do what they want there. If it's for service, I think we are better in large numbers than scattered here and there with no resources to carry out goals/agendas. I really don't see the point in making a sorority to promote better reading when AKA and SGRO (pardon me if I'm wrong or I've left out another who has a reading initiative) have national reading programs. The same thing goes for an org directed at single moms when ZPB has the Stork Nest program. I also don't think the number of single moms being denied membership is so enormous that another org had to be created to fill the void.

It's bad enough many people don't take us seriously when the word sorority comes out of our mouths. It does us all an injustice when you have these cracker jack box orgs saying they recruit only fine people, what size their shoe is or how many babies they have especially since we are working hard in our communities to achieve our targets.

I also have the same feelings towards new graduate chapters being formed in areas where there are already a good number of them. Members say I don't like this chapter or any of the other chapters within this 20-mile radius, so I'll just charter another one. IMO we are diluting our resources and or org when we do this. Different topic though.

[TheEpitome1920]

Originally posted by allsmiles_22


I also have the same feelings towards new graduate chapters being formed in areas where there are already a good number of them. Members say I don't like this chapter or any of the other chapters within this 20-mile radius, so I'll just charter another one. IMO we are diluting our resources and or org when we do this. Different topic though.

Get out of my head.:p

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by allsmiles_22
Starting a sorority for superficial reasons doesn't bother me. People can do what they want there. If it's for service, I think we are better in large numbers than scattered here and there with no resources to carry out goals/agendas. I really don't see the point in making a sorority to promote better reading when AKA and SGRO (pardon me if I'm wrong or I've left out another who has a reading initiative) have national reading programs. The same thing goes for an org directed at single moms when ZPB has the Stork Nest program. I also don't think the number of single moms being denied membership is so enormous that another org had to be created to fill the void.

It's bad enough many people don't take us seriously when the word sorority comes out of our mouths. It does us all an injustice when you have these cracker jack box orgs saying they recruit only fine people, what size their shoe is or how many babies they have especially since we are working hard in our communities to achieve our targets.

I also have the same feelings towards new graduate chapters being formed in areas where there are already a good number of them. Members say I don't like this chapter or any of the other chapters within this 20-mile radius, so I'll just charter another one. IMO we are diluting our resources and or org when we do this. Different topic though.

On your last point, Soror, I completely agree. Then again, I'm biased because my chapter is the only one in my area. We're a good size.

Now as for the other orgs being discussed, I pay no attention. My concern is with Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Inc. and what we are doing.

[reddawn18]

Originally posted by allsmiles_22


It's bad enough many people don't take us seriously when the word sorority comes out of our mouths. It does us all an injustice when you have these cracker jack box orgs saying they recruit only fine people, what size their shoe is or how many babies they have especially since we are working hard in our communities to achieve our targets.

I also have the same feelings towards new graduate chapters being formed in areas where there are already a good number of them. Members say I don't like this chapter or any of the other chapters within this 20-mile radius, so I'll just charter another one. IMO we are diluting our resources and or org when we do this. Different topic though.

I PROBABLY shouldn't say this but once upon a time (when I was stupid) I joined two different GLOs. My reason for joining the first org, a sorority, was because I thought I would never get into a BGLO to save my life. The stories got to me about the "requirements" and I was, as I said before, stupid.

I left the first one becuase the founder, who was significantly younger than me, started doing some CRAZY stuff. She was not taking care of business so to speak.

The second one, Multicultural Frasority, I was there from the beginning. The conception and all. I left them as well. The Frasority was really a joke in my eyes because what the men wanted was to be the leaders and have the women as some sort of "sweethearts." And if I wanted to be a sweetheart, I would have became one YEARS ago!

I say all this because many people who start organizations like the idea of forming an sorority or a frat or frasority. They often split from other groups, in case of the second group I joined. They want to foster some kind of kinship amongst each other. But in my experience, they don't. Its a clique that wanted to be like the big dogs, whether its the group they left, LGLO, BGLO, etc.

Not that they are copying the molds that are set forth, many feel that they can enhance the image of what at GLO is in general. Not that one GLO is perfect and not that these new heads are perfect either.

When I was young and stupid (I have been out of the Greek scene as a member of a GLO for over two years), I thought I could make a difference in the world. To make that difference I was well aware that one person can not do it alone. That being part of a group make things happen. Now, I don't know these other groups or their mindset, but that is my opinion on what is the creation of these type of groups.

ETA: I have been asked would I join another GLO on different non-affliated occasions. I said yes. And only to an organization that is established with some kind of morals that I am trying to achieve in my life.

my two cents...

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
What are they doing that makes them a sorority?
I honestly could care less what they call themselves.

But imagine if all orgs started calling themselves a sorority:
MADD Sorority
Girl Scouts Sorority
NOW Sorority
NCNW Sorority
Junior League Sorority

I
I think you make an interesting point. What makes a sorority? What unique qualities should be in place for an organization to consider themselves a sorority?

My guess is that because they wanted a sisterhood. They wanted to say that we are more than just members of the same organization, but we are sisters. I was a Girl Scout. Even worked for them for a while, but when I meet another former Girl Scout I don't really feel any particular connection to her. Same thing with the NAACP. But I have a strong sisterhood in Spelman. When I meet another Spelman woman I feel an immediate kinship with her because of our shared sisterhood.

[TheEpitome1920]

Well 2 big things that seperate a sorority from any other organization are ritual and the detailed requirements to achieve and maintain membership.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by BirthaBlue4
All of this happens everyday. I think that what Rain Man was trying to get at (IMO) is it seems as if since there is the NPHC group of sororities and fraternities geared for African Americans, and anyone that chooses to go Greek and does so outside of these ranks are looked at by NPHC members as "copycats", "traitors", and "unnecessary". Yes these groups have colors, symbols, mascots, calls, etc, but maybe they feel this is the protocol for a sorority. Most prominent non-white organizations have these things, so maybe they thought, "Hey, this is how its supposed to go". And that's ok. Do you feel the same way when you see a Latino organization or an MC organization do the same thing? Or are we all too protective of our people and what EVERYONE to fit in the same 9 molds? Again, most of us wouldn't even be here if people felt this way. Look at it as our Founders and our organizations blazed the trail for other African American organizations to rise up as well. Look at it as progress and freedom of choice, not as something to be offended by or to resent. It's counterproductive; it really does waste energy and time. But, to each her own, you are right you can feelhow you want.

HEL-LO!!!

BirthaBlue, you spoke my thoughts to a T, cause we are right ==========>HERE!!<==========

Yeah, Ideal08, you're right, you can resent whatever you want to resent, but I would think that as Greeks representing our present and future leaders, we would have the wisdom to discern what is and isn't worth fussing about. And all this contention about something as trivial as another Black GLO in existence is a waste of time and energy, as BB4 indicated.

Again, Greeks, PICK YOUR BATTLES!!

ETA: 33girl, yes you are correct about the 9 founding NPC groups aren't the oldest, as the oldest 2, Phi Mu and Alpha Delta Pi weren't initially in the fold. By the same token, as far as the contemporary sorority goes as we know it , if anyone should be b[el]ching and complaining about replication of sorority life, those two orgs are most qualified to do it

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by Rain Man
I would think that as Greeks representing our present and future leaders, we would have the wisdom to discern what is and isn't worth fussing about. And all this contention about something as trivial as another Black GLO in existence is a waste of time and energy, as BB4 indicated.

Again, Greeks, PICK YOUR BATTLES!!

Does your posting in this thread constitute hypocrisy?

[abaici]

Originally posted by Rain Man
[B]Again, Greeks, PICK YOUR BATTLES!!


Is this a battle??

The point is that we can agree and disagree with these people all we want. Are they going to cease to exist? um, no. There's nothing wrong with someone having an opinion on a matter. Just because you have an OPINION, does not mean you are the leader of a CRUSADE.

Personally, I am only concerned with the actions of the organization I made a pledge to. Still, I can have an opinion about these new organizations. I agree with CT4 and the rest when they ask, WHY does it have to be a sorority? Why do they have to start yet ANOTHER organization? This is a valid question. Before starting a nonprofit consultants suggest that you should ask yourself, "Are we needed? ARE we providing a service that is not being filled by another organization?" It's wonderful that they are volunteering with other organizations. But, they did not need to start an organization in order to do that. I agree with the person who mentioned Founder-itis. It's all about ego.

[Boom_Quack13]

I was at least understanding, even if I don't agree, with this post until I read this:

Originally posted by Rain Man

ETA: As far as "lack of originality" goes, I think our (Black) culture tends to bite off of others in some way, shape, form, or fashion to begin with and put our own original "twist" on it. So to be fair, the lack of originality argument, while I see where you are coming from, is rather weak. [/B]

Black culture is the most bitten off, reproduced, remixed culture around. This statement should read:

As far as lack of originality goes, I think other cultures tend to bite off of Black culture in some way, shape, form, or fashion...

[Boom_Quack13]

Originally posted by BirthaBlue4
:confused: I was in no way saying that we copied ANYONE, what I was saying was that if people want to have the attitude of saying why join/create other orgs to mimic us when there's already 4 orgs, that would be the same thing as saying that every org after AKA copied them, every orf after DST copied them, etc. My point was that to each her own. Like you said yourself, "We all have things in common, but that in no way implies 'copying'". So why all the drama over these girls that are doing their own thing, just like the founders of ALL of our organizations. Why crush their dream, when we fought to have ours realized? Afford them the same opportunity.

Okay. Point taken. But the major uproar is over the artwork. Also, I remember seeing other "new" orgs with hand signs like upside down pyramids, standing in the ivy stance, and even saw an org duck walking once. That is where the problem comes in. I also agree with Soror CT4. Why do they have to call themselves a sorority? Other than the fact tat they are a group of women, what about them makes them a sorority? And originality is desperately needed. The whole Fab4 remix can be tedious. Bring something new to the mix. That's all.

[Senusret I]

Why shouldn't they be a sorority if that's what they want to be? If they want to be selective in their membership, that makes them a sorority. If they want to have values that are codified through a ritual, that makes them a sorority. Lots of factors contribute to what an organization is, not just the superficial elements. There are things about being an Alpha that I could never explain to someone who wasn't an Alpha themselves -- I am sure the same is true of organizations founded well after mine.

If it was just about service, none of our orgs have to be fraternal or sororal, either. But it's not just about service or programming or social action -- it's about having a brotherhood/sisterhood and being in close association with people who have the same values.

[msn4med1975]

Originally posted by Senusret I
Why shouldn't they be a sorority if that's what they want to be? If they want to be selective in their membership, that makes them a sorority. If they want to have values that are codified through a ritual, that makes them a sorority. Lots of factors contribute to what an organization is, not just the superficial elements. There are things about being an Alpha that I could never explain to someone who wasn't an Alpha themselves -- I am sure the same is true of organizations founded well after mine.

If it was just about service, none of our orgs have to be fraternal or sororal, either. But it's not just about service or programming or social action -- it's about having a brotherhood/sisterhood and being in close association with people who have the same values.

Hijack

why you quoting two different prince songs in you sig, why am i dying cause i noticed, why you all right with me (in my best erykah badu from mama's gun impersonation)

end Hijack

[TonyB06]

There's an old saying, "if you want to know how something will end, look at how it began."

I think elements of that apply here. I agree w/ CT4, Ideal08 and others on what seems like "copying" to me, but whatever. Camaradarie, tenacity and impact are the D9 marks of success. We'll see about these new groups.

If these "pop-up" orgs last and do the work which honors their founding commitment/s, then great. That's one less community problem the rest of us have to tackle. If, as I suspect usually happens, they fall by the wayside relatively soon after formation, what truly has been lost except, perhaps the disillusionment of a few of their members?

For all of our shortcomings, the D9 has made qualitative differences in the lives of members and our community for 90+ plus years now, a fact no reasonable person can argue. That tradition, whether folks acknowledge it or not, is what leads them to form their own groups. Hey, if kicking it down at Krispy Kreme with their "founders" is tradition for them, I'm glad for 'em.

As for me, the time invested and the lives the D9 has helped to change on behalf of the Creator, is the real answer to this question.

peace.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by Ideal08
Does your posting in this thread constitute hypocrisy?

No more so than BirthaBlue posting here, and she expressed my thoughts perfectly.

But I guess she (or anyone who has a similar opinion) isn't a hypocrite b/c she's NPHC :rolleyes:

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by Rain Man
No more so than BirthaBlue posting here, and she expressed my thoughts perfectly.

But I guess she (or anyone who has a similar opinion) isn't a hypocrite b/c she's NPHC :rolleyes:

Your issues with the NPHC are so apparent in your posts. If you would take a step back, it wasn't personal and/or anti-nonNPHC. If BirthaBlue had posted about picking your battles and so forth, then my question applies to her as well. However, you posted that in BOLD letters, so I directed my question to you. Anyone, MY SORORS included, who would say that to discuss this is a waste of energy while they are discussing it, yes, that would make them just as hypocritical as you are.

Happy? :rolleyes:

[SKEEphistAKAte]

Originally posted by reddawn18
My reason for joining the first org, a sorority, was because I thought I would never get into a BGLO to save my life.

I'm glad that the came out about why people found these organizations! If a BGLO member had said this, the "copycats" would deny it vehemently. These folks couldn't make the cut in BGLO's so they made up their own. Bottom Line.
Is there anything wrong with it. I guess not. I don't think that it is anything to get miffed about. These orgs never last long anyway, because people see them for what they are.

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
I'm glad that the came out about why people found these organizations! If a BGLO member had said this, the "copycats" would deny it vehemently. These folks couldn't make the cut in BGLO's so they made up their own. Bottom Line.
Is there anything wrong with it. I guess not. I don't think that it is anything to get miffed about. These orgs never last long anyway, because people see them for what they are.

It would be a shame if you were generaling based on one person's experience.

[SKEEphistAKAte]

You're right it would be.

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
You're right it would be.

I'm glad we agree.

[SKEEphistAKAte]

Originally posted by TonyB06
There's an old saying, "if you want to know how something will end, look at how it began."

I think elements of that apply here. I agree w/ CT4, Ideal08 and others on what seems like "copying" to me, but whatever. Camaradarie, tenacity and impact are the D9 marks of success. We'll see about these new groups.

If these "pop-up" orgs last and do the work which honors their founding commitment/s, then great. That's one less community problem the rest of us have to tackle. If, as I suspect usually happens, they fall by the wayside relatively soon after formation, what truly has been lost except, perhaps the disillusionment of a few of their members?

For all of our shortcomings, the D9 has made qualitative differences in the lives of members and our community for 90+ plus years now, a fact no reasonable person can argue. That tradition, whether folks acknowledge it or not, is what leads them to form their own groups. Hey, if kicking it down at Krispy Kreme with their "founders" is tradition for them, I'm glad for 'em.

As for me, the time invested and the lives the D9 has helped to change on behalf of the Creator, is the real answer to this question.

peace.

TonyB06 always on point! LOL @ Krispy Kreme with the founders.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
These orgs never last long anyway, because people see them for what they are.

That's a rather hasty generalization there, Skee. As far as non-NPHC sororities go, there MAY be some merit (I don't know of any such orgs being founded in the 60s, 70s, 80s, or even early 90s, with the exception of Alpha Nu Omega Sorority, founded 1988). But as far as fraternities goes, that's another story altogether. Some non-NPHC fraternities that have been around for a while include:

Phi Eta Psi (1965)
Delta Psi Chi (1985)
Beta Phi Pi (1986)
Alpha Nu Omega (Christian fraternity & sorority--1988)
Gamma Alpha Chi (1989?)

Hope this helps.

[DIVA1177]

Originally posted by CardioRNNP
Is it me?, or are these new black greek sororities trying to re-invent sororities of the D9? You be the judge.

http://www.geocities.com/sigma_beta_xi_03/home.html


http://www.geocities.com/ldjones2601/index.html


http://www.deltalambdadelta.com/

:confused:

I recognize the second one. The pictures look like Dillard University's campus. The last line looks like a lineup for NOPD. I wonder how they are recieved on the yard...
I don't necessarily think that anything is wrong with doing your own thing as long as your thing is original. If they don't see the purpose or if THEY think the purpose of the D9 sororities is flawed, then power to them in doing their own thing.;)

[stardusttwin]

Originally posted by Rain Man
That's a rather hasty generalization there, Skee. As far as non-NPHC sororities go, there MAY be some merit (I don't know of any such orgs being founded in the 60s, 70s, 80s, or even early 90s, with the exception of Alpha Nu Omega Sorority, founded 1988). But as far as fraternities goes, that's another story altogether. Some non-NPHC fraternities that have been around for a while include:

Phi Eta Psi (1965)
Delta Psi Chi (1985)
Beta Phi Pi (1986)
Alpha Nu Omega (Christian fraternity & sorority--1988)
Gamma Alpha Chi (1989?)

Hope this helps.

So you don't think NPHC members are picking on you...you're totally missing the point. The thread is NOT about non NPHC organizations...its about these random groups that keep popping up with greek letters on various campuses and last no longer than the founders or first two lines graduation dates (or last semester of classes as students). They come up spouting goals and aspirations with traditions that mimic those of D9 & then fade away soon after the first step show (if they were even allowed to participate). They ususally have step shows dissing other groups and while it may sound like a generalization 9 times out of 10 one of the founders was unable to make it into an NPHC org thus the "sudden need" for a new one on the yard.

We can only judge peoples organizations by what they put out there - copying artwork and mimicing signs doesn't say much about their original vision. What happened to their alumnae outreach? Shouldn't they be developing other ave's for members to stay active after graduation? They were so dedicated that they let the organization die after 2-3 years?

If you must copy then copy a successful program and make it work in your area-earn respect by your deeds-don't expect it from a fly website or bootleg nalia.

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by stardusttwin
So you don't think NPHC members are picking on you...you're totally missing the point. The thread is NOT about non NPHC organizations...its about these random groups that keep popping up with greek letters on various campuses and last no longer than the founders or first two lines graduation dates (or last semester of classes as students). They come up spouting goals and aspirations with traditions that mimic those of D9 & then fade away soon after the first step show (if they were even allowed to participate). They ususally have step shows dissing other groups and while it may sound like a generalization 9 times out of 10 one of the founders was unable to make it into an NPHC org thus the "sudden need" for a new one on the yard.

We can only judge peoples organizations by what they put out there - copying artwork and mimicing signs doesn't say much about their original vision. What happened to their alumnae outreach? Shouldn't they be developing other ave's for members to stay active after graduation? They were so dedicated that they let the organization die after 2-3 years?

If you must copy then copy a successful program and make it work in your area-earn respect by your deeds-don't expect it from a fly website or bootleg nalia.

I swore that I was done with this, but I have to CTFU at your reference of a "fly website" and "bootleg nalia." I will take my org.'s 96-year history of service and sisterhood any day.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by stardusttwin
So you don't think NPHC members are picking on you...you're totally missing the point. The thread is NOT about non NPHC organizations...its about these random groups that keep popping up with greek letters on various campuses and last no longer than the founders or first two lines graduation dates (or last semester of classes as students). They come up spouting goals and aspirations with traditions that mimic those of D9 & then fade away soon after the first step show (if they were even allowed to participate). They ususally have step shows dissing other groups and while it may sound like a generalization 9 times out of 10 one of the founders was unable to make it into an NPHC org thus the "sudden need" for a new one on the yard.

My apologies if what you just said is the case; however, that was NEVER made clear in the initial post or with subsequent posts; thus you had to read into what the original poster was trying to convey. In other words, the thread started with, "Look at these new GLOs starting up; whaddya think?", the initial responses went along the lines of, "Why everythang gotta be a Greek letter sorority?" I was responding along the general vibe(s) the thread originally conveyed. Skeephistakate's post on new orgs starting and fading w/in one to two years was the first post that even remotely touched upon what you are saying here. So even now I am not 100% sure that that was the general message the original poster was trying to convey, but for the sake of peace in this thread, I will take your word for it.


We can only judge peoples organizations by what they put out there - copying artwork and mimicing signs doesn't say much about their original vision. What happened to their alumnae outreach? Shouldn't they be developing other ave's for members to stay active after graduation? They were so dedicated that they let the organization die after 2-3 years?

If you must copy then copy a successful program and make it work in your area-earn respect by your deeds-don't expect it from a fly website or bootleg nalia.

If this is the true spirit of the thread, I have a question: What "new" GLOs do you know (other than Xi Gamma Phi) have sprouted up and died w/in, say 5 years? IMHO responses of this nature will give those who dissent of these new GLOs more merit with their views and give this thread a better sense of direction as far as the overall messages being conveyed.

[miss priss]

This is funny that this thread was posted.....because I was thinking of asking the same questions....however, i even thought of starting a sorority..one that was philanthropical and professional in nature...I even came up with a name, purpose, colors, and the likes...those things that were important to me...For this particular organization, I had no interest in it being apart of the NPHC or IFC or others. More along the lines of a sorority like Eta Phi Beta, etc. it is something that i have seriously thought about....and still thinking... Don't get me wrong I really would like to be apart of one particular org that exemplifies all of these things...yes I feel that I could accomplish some of the same goals but with limits....and that's where the lines are blurry. For instance, in my org i wanted to have undivided chapters meaning no undergrad or grad chapters just chapters .... certain requirements for membership beyond ethical/moral character, gpa and sorts (although to get in the D9 you need more than that, so i hope you understand what i mean...) and the lists goes on. I do feel from a GDI perspective, that there needs to be a reassessment of how AA org's are addressing the needs of the AA community. So I guess the greater question to ask is are those needs being met? if so then why do people feel the need to start new orgs when they can just work through what we already have than just starting their own....once again JMGDI perspective.

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by miss priss
I do feel from a GDI perspective, that there needs to be a reassessment of how AA org's are addressing the needs of the AA community. So I guess the greater question to ask is are those needs being met? if so then why do people feel the need to start new orgs when they can just work through what we already have than just starting their own....once again JMGDI perspective.

Miss Priss,
This is not targeted to you personally but all those who have the view of inadequacy in the current organizations that is expressed above in your statement.

I have heard this question of whether the needs of our community are being met by the D9 posed over and over by non-members so b/c I KNOW how hard I work in my chapter and how hard my chapter and sorority works, I am curious to know what this "reassessment" that non-members are always talking about would find. Do you have specific ideas of how the D-9 is not serving the African-American community based on your standpoint?

Please do tell b/c I am just baffled at how we are not addressing the needs of the community when my sorority is addressing everything from Education to Economics to the Black Family to the Arts to Health. Alot falls under those areas.

I know that you are not privy to knowing of everything that we are doing in our communities (b/c it is alot and much is not publicized in a newspaper for all to see) and this may actually be the problem - that non-members do not KNOW how we are affecting the community and therefore do not understand the impact that we are having, but from your perspective, exactly what would a "reassessment" yield as an answer? You can pm me if you are apprehensive about giving a public critique but I must know - I am just dying to hear SPECIFICALLY what need in the community that none of the D9 is addressing.

I ask this b/c everyone is quick to yell about a reassessment but I'm baffled b/c me and my Sorors are working HARD to provide service to all mankind and we ARE making change in our communities. What else do you want us to do? What is it that another organization can come in and do that is not covered under Education, Economics, the Black Family, Arts and Health (the current targets for Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated)?


SC

[stardusttwin]

Originally posted by Rain Man
If this is the true spirit of the thread, I have a question: What "new" GLOs do you know (other than Xi Gamma Phi) have sprouted up and died w/in, say 5 years? IMHO responses of this nature will give those who dissent of these new GLOs more merit with their views and give this thread a better sense of direction as far as the overall messages being conveyed.

If you want to know specifically then do a search of past threads - I don't have the time or care that much to look it up. If one must know the actual names there are plenty threads discussing new orgs that had websites touting "the newest playa on the yard" yet if you check closely the site hasn't been updated since 97, 98, 2001...check further with current students at the school and the group doesn't exist anymore. Most never made it past their one campus or were ever legitimately registered as an organization (even as a campus group).

I also think we are all smart enough not to assume that only 9 organizations can serve all or that there isn't room for more or that all sororities/fraternities have to belong to NPHC. I also don't see anyone downing legitimate new efforts to form a new sororitiy/fraternity...you seem to be reading more into people's posts and want to keep sticking to that premise.

Like I said- copy a national program and make it work in your local community. Once you have enough members and are making real contributions then worry about getting some art that has meaning specific to your org commissioned.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by stardusttwin
If you want to know specifically then do a search of past threads - I don't have the time or care that much to look it up. If one must know the actual names there are plenty threads discussing new orgs that had websites touting "the newest playa on the yard" yet if you check closely the site hasn't been updated since 97, 98, 2001

I don't think the frequency of website updates is a good indicator of whether or not an org still exists, so merely doing a search of past threads is pointless.


...check further with current students at the school and the group doesn't exist anymore. Most never made it past their one campus or were ever legitimately registered as an organization (even as a campus group).

That is why I am asking those here on GC who know for a fact and can vouch for the continuing existence of any given org.


I also think we are all smart enough not to assume that only 9 organizations can serve all or that there isn't room for more or that all sororities/fraternities have to belong to NPHC. I also don't see anyone downing legitimate new efforts to form a new sororitiy/fraternity...

We may have to mutually disagree, but when I hear folk questioning why others are forming a sorority, that can easily be construed as downing new efforts to form a new GLO. Read Birtha Blue's and Eclipse's posts on pages 1 & 2 of this thread.


you seem to be reading more into people's posts and want to keep sticking to that premise.

I am merely taking the posts at face value, and I am obviously not the only one doing so.


Like I said- copy a national program and make it work in your local community. Once you have enough members and are making real contributions then worry about getting some art that has meaning specific to your org commissioned.

Agreed. Good point. ;)

[miss priss]

Originally posted by SummerChild
Miss Priss,
This is not targeted to you personally but all those who have the view of inadequacy in the current organizations that are expressed above in your statement.

Oh No offense taken...this is an intellectual conversation...right? ;)
1.) Do you have specific ideas of how the D-9 is not serving the African-American community based on your standpoint?

2.) but from your perspective, exactly what would a "reassessment" yield as an answer? You can pm me if you are apprehensive about giving a public critique but I must know - I am just dying to hear SPECIFICALLY what need in the community that none of the D9 is addressing.

3.) I ask this b/c everyone is quick to yell about a reassessment but I'm baffled b/c me and my Sorors are working HARD to provide service to all mankind and we ARE making change in our communities. What else do you want us to do? What is it that another organization can come in and do that is not covered under Education, Economics, the Black Family, Arts and Health (the current targets for Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated)?

Because this is a tri-part question, I'll address them separately....

1.) and 2.) In fairness the D-9, gives heavily to the community and, in some cases, work actively in them; however, unfortunately, (this has been discussed before somewhere) the D-9 is regarded as a bourgeois group of people who attack needs when deemed for media purposes...just because it sounds/looks good.....now we all know that's not true for all the D-9. But some people feel that they are not taking a more active role in the political infrastructure of (Black) America, not making full commitments to community charity not just giving to them like they did in the sixties/seventies, and the persistent crutch of approaching the new millennial problems with the old millennial ways. These are only a few that I hear....For me ideally, I would love to see a communal interaction occur with people in the D-9....like they do with Habitat for Humanity.....In my community, for instance, most of the Black/Latino community has trash and dilapidated homes everywhere...who's going to take the first step in seeing that these things are done? I personally take part in yearly clean-up...but we have a (Greek) mayor who has the power to say Hey let's get to work...and although he has made some initiative...the work must be continuous not just one weekend...and this is what poor Black folks see....it may not be true but that's what they say they see. The premise is that the D-9 only dedicates a weekend to (that) communities needs, but only a premise, and unjustifiably so!
2.) We need to empower our people with understanding the true definition of wealth, making a impact on how we address health; also, creating jobs for the jobless, issues like gay marriage and its impact on the Afro-American community, addressing the social ills of welfare, black on black crime, warfare involving the Tutsis in Rowanda, take back our urban schools by insisting that we have quality schools in neighborhoods and the presence of (professional) role models for our young Black men and women to name a few…The reassessment needs to take a hard look at how the needs are being addressed to the culture of that community. We (volunteers) tend to take a more global approach when addressing those needs. See I think that the issue is in the question, "specifically addressing the need"…the specifics are the need itself…I like this phrase "It’s more than just a grip of hands, it’s an idea conceived." (quoted from a source:0) )

3.) You are right what more can they do? I read this, "Groups such as Nun Phi Nun, Hound Phi Hound and Vash Na Ha were short-lived groups formed to parody NPHC organizations," ….."Other organizations saw themselves more as reflections of the Black Power ideology espoused…. and saw their purpose on campus as challenging the status quo of the more conservative Greeks." Individuals finding a home that reflects their current value system, thoughts, and search for acceptance which causes people to form other orgs. We all know that the D-9 are considered as elitist organizations that separate the wealthier middle/upper class from poor black folks…So people tend to fight that "elitist" system by forming these new orgs. How effective they are determines longevity and that's why the D-9 continues to survive. Alpha Kappa Alpha does wonderful things in the community as well as the others …But personally for me, I look at my surroundings and ask myself am I making the difference? Has these orgs. empowered me to want to make one(a difference)? Do I feel important to them? Are they impacting me? Do I have take ownership by what they (the D-9) have given me? These are all personal accountability questions. Can the D-9 implement a desire for the AA community to be (socially) accountable? Keep in mind they are the same questions being asked intuitively and individually by many communities…so I guess (political/social) activeness/accountability is decided by where you are and what the D-9 does in that community. (which depends on chapter involvement/numbers, assumably)
Sorry so long….
BTW , a list of interesting websites…..

www.playahata.com/pages/morpheus/blackfrats.html
www.newsavanna.com/meanderings/me94/me6.
www.kappabetasigma.org/Are_Frats_Relevant.html

[BirthaBlue4]

http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s26/smilies-2398.png

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by miss priss
I look at my surroundings and ask myself am I making the difference? Has these orgs. empowered me to want to make one(a difference)? Do I feel important to them? Are they impacting me? Do I have take ownership by what they (the D-9) have given me? These are all personal accountability questions. Can the D-9 implement a desire for the AA community to be (socially) accountable?

These are some good questions.

And I also agree with a lot of what you said in your post. It just saddens me the message that I'm getting, and perhaps I'm misinterpreting what's being said; you tell me if I have it right or wrong.

The assumption (I realize that it's an assumption and perhaps not everyone's) is that we are stuck up snobs who only do good to get noticed by the media. We do a little service here and there but we are neither social nor political activists. It is our responsibilty to inspire civic duty with the rest of the African-American community. Do I have this assumption correct? If I do, that saddens me, for real. All the work all 9 of these orgs have done over the years has gone completely and totally unnoticed. :(

I have a question for the GDI's (or whoever, really). Do you think that the work that is done must be done by the organization as a WHOLE or by it's members? Because it seems as if all of the questions (though they may be rhetorical) are addressed to the D9 and not individual members of those organizations. What does the D9 do or what has the D9 done? Because if I get drunk and act a fool, then I represent Alpha Kappa Alpha. But when I go to Ethiopia to study famine and drought and come back and work on trying to get to the root of that problem and solve it, I represent Monique. Is this what people think? If ONE member is a social and/or political activist, does it reflect on that person's organization? What about chapters? Does it make a difference if there is a chapter that is boycotting something? Or a chapter is having a voters registration drive? Of if chapter members are writing their senators and representatives to lobby for one cause or another? Does that make a difference? What if the senator or representative IS a member of an org; does that make a difference? Or are we only seen as a collective, and all the good that we do has to be done as a group. Because if that is how we are seen, then we have already failed (in the eyes of our communities, and will continue to do so). Am I making sense?

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by miss priss
Oh No offense taken...this is an intellectual conversation...right? ;)

Because this is a tri-part question, I'll address them separately....

Rain Man's note: Due to length, points 1 & 2 were deleted, but they were EXCELLENT points as well. Point 3 was what I considered to be the strongest and most relevant as it pertains to this thread, so I kept it in.

3.) You are right what more can they do? I read this, "Groups such as Nun Phi Nun, Hound Phi Hound and Vash Na Ha were short-lived groups formed to parody NPHC organizations," ….."Other organizations saw themselves more as reflections of the Black Power ideology espoused…. and saw their purpose on campus as challenging the status quo of the more conservative Greeks." Individuals finding a home that reflects their current value system, thoughts, and search for acceptance which causes people to form other orgs. We all know that the D-9 are considered as elitist organizations that separate the wealthier middle/upper class from poor black folks…So people tend to fight that "elitist" system by forming these new orgs. How effective they are determines longevity and that's why the D-9 continues to survive. Alpha Kappa Alpha does wonderful things in the community as well as the others …But personally for me, I look at my surroundings and ask myself am I making the difference? Has these orgs. empowered me to want to make one(a difference)? Do I feel important to them? Are they impacting me? Do I have take ownership by what they (the D-9) have given me? These are all personal accountability questions. Can the D-9 implement a desire for the AA community to be (socially) accountable? Keep in mind they are the same questions being asked intuitively and individually by many communities…so I guess (political/social) activeness/accountability is decided by where you are and what the D-9 does in that community. (which depends on chapter involvement/numbers, assumably)



http://www.geocities.com/jmadindian/mgpromo3.jpg

WAYLE! read: well
CAN I GET AN AMEN?

http://www.geocities.com/jmadindian/mg80tickets.JPG

AAAAAAAAAAAAMENNNNNN!!

[abaici]

As my soror previously stated, everything we do is not printed in the mass media. As for sorors, I can proudly say that we have donated over 1 million hours of community service in the past two years.

However, my question (that has not been answered), is what do people expect for us to do. Are 9 organizations expected to solve the all of the problems that affect the community? If so, our charge is greater than the government's or our political leaders.
It's not OUR responsibility alone, it's EVERYONE'S responsibility. Stop accusing the D9 of being aristocratic and ineffective...it "just ain't so."

To me, it's a case of someone from the outside looking. Before, I was granted membership in AKA, I was critical of D9 groups. I felt they were not doing enough. HOWEVER, when I got in, I realized that people see the FUN and the "glamour" but not the hard work that goes into it.

[SKEEphistAKAte]

So what I am hearing is that people expect the D-9 to be the Saviors of the entire African American community and no matter what we do it will never be enough. My sorors are correct when they say that we don't publish nearly the amount of service that we do. But herein lies the rub, if we don't publish all of it people think that we don't do anything. On the other hand if we do publish it, people think we are doing it just for good press. It baffles the mind how black people always find something bad to say (usually quite publicly) about organizations who's focus is on doing good for the community. People are always talking about what we don't do or are focusing on isolated incidents that give us bad press. It is sickening.
"The D-9 are elitist so we will form our own group". To me that sounds the same as " I couldn't get in, so I will form my own group". That has nothing to do with us not taking care of business in the community. "Poor blacks" as you say, will be to some extent excluded from membership in our orgs as they are COLLEGE-BASED organizations. That doesn't mean that we are estranged from the community. Members and non members (educated and not) can do a part in helping the community.
Prior to joining AKA, I was extremely active in the community and continue my activism IN ADDITION to the work I do as a function of my membership. People act like they have to be in a sorority to serve the community. You can volunteer for Habitat for Humanity, the Urban League or whomever and still do service without being in a sorority.
I've got class. I'll come back to this later.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by abaici


However, my question (that has not been answered), is what do people expect for us to do. Are 9 organizations expected to solve the all of the problems that affect the community? If so, our charge is greater than the government's or our political leaders.
It's not OUR responsibility alone, it's EVERYONE'S responsibility. Stop accusing the D9 of being aristocratic and ineffective...it "just ain't so."

And THAT is (at least for some of these new orgs) the reason why some of these new orgs are popping up; to pick up the slack that the NPHC orgs cannot do due to limited resources. You're right, it is everyone's responsibility. And I would think that the NPHC would adopt the mentality of GLOs who want to serve the community, that "we need all the help that we can get." But IMHO it's that very aristocratic attitude is what creates needless chasms b/t NPHC orgs and non-NPHC orgs.

You're also right that 9 orgs cannot possibly solve or even seek to solve every issue(s) that affect the community. But the question is: are these orgs humble enough to admit this and would welcome non-member orgs to discuss, address, delegate, and execute plans that all orgs involved would tackle certain issues and problems?

Now let's face it, I know that there are some orgs that just want to be a Greek letter clique. If you know and they know that they are not about anything, then their fruits (or lack thereof) will speak for themselves, and either their growth will be stunted, they will die out, or they will find a meaningful purpose for their org and take on a new direction.

But let's not get high and mighty here. I am not naive to believe that every NPHC org was originally founded to "set out and change the world". There were necessary social components needed to create a sense of solidarity, comeraderie, and fellowship. A strong social bond is critical in the first 5-10 years of ANY org to insure its future survival. There's nothing wrong with that and that's not at all disgraceful. So if you see these orgs being a little cliqueish and they are only a year or two old, let them have their fun now. They have the rest of their natural lives to get down to business and to seek which community service venues they wish to venture into. But for right now, leave them alone and let them have their fun. Believe it or not, that's the best way for them to strengthen their orgs and insure their survival.

They need your support, not your criticism.

[reddawn18]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
I'm glad that the came out about why people found these organizations! If a BGLO member had said this, the "copycats" would deny it vehemently. These folks couldn't make the cut in BGLO's so they made up their own. Bottom Line.
Is there anything wrong with it. I guess not. I don't think that it is anything to get miffed about. These orgs never last long anyway, because people see them for what they are.

MY statement was more because I graduated College, I would never be in a BGLO. I got false information about how to get in a BGLO after graduation. That is why I joined these organizations--again mistakes of my youth and lack of information from people who are in a D9 sorority.

I should have put that in my original post.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
"The D-9 are elitist so we will form our own group". To me that sounds the same as " I couldn't get in, so I will form my own group".
Is it "I couldn't get in", or I don't want to get in? It is an unfair assumption to make by saying those who start these new orgs are only those that couldn't join NPHC orgs, as opposed to those who start orgs because certain elements of the NPHC turned them off. It unfairly puts the whole burden of responsibility and accountability on the individual and none of it on the orgs. Let's not get hasty here, Skee.


Prior to joining AKA, I was extremely active in the community and continue my activism IN ADDITION to the work I do as a function of my membership. People act like they have to be in a sorority to serve the community. You can volunteer for Habitat for Humanity, the Urban League or whomever and still do service without being in a sorority.

That begs the main question in this thread: Why does it have to be an NPHC org or nothing at all? Nobody is addressing this key issue which is in part why these orgs are starting up; to go against the "norm" the NPHC has created.

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by Rain Man
...And I would think that the NPHC would adopt the mentality of GLOs who want to serve the community, that "we need all the help that we can get." But IMHO it's that very aristocratic attitude is what creates needless chasms b/t NPHC orgs and non-NPHC orgs.

You're also right that 9 orgs cannot possibly solve or even seek to solve every issue(s) that affect the community. But the question is: are these orgs humble enough to admit this and would welcome non-member orgs to discuss, address, delegate, and execute plans that all orgs involved would tackle certain issues and problems?

They need your support, not your criticism.

I'm still waiting for the first post that said a) these groups couldn't form or b) if they were effective, more power wasn't due to them. But this D9 "aristocratic attitude" charge is largely hollow, IMO.

Recent case in point: a new chapter of 100 Black Men is forming in my city. Last month they sought out my chapter for discussions and to discuss some possible future partnerships. We welcomed them. A lot of their initiatives are things we, and others, are already doing but cool...if they can join in and hit the problem from their angle and bring more resources to the fight, then welcome to the battle! (Besides, knowing Alpha, we'll have 40 percent membership in 100BM within a year and will probably be running it in two anyway).

I can take reasoned criticism from anybody, but I respect it more when it comes from those with some "skin in the game." If you want to form x, y, or z org., go ahead. But save the holla for me until we can shake glad hands over how many kids "WE'VE" helped go to college, or how many at-risk boys/girls "WE'VE" redirected and shown a better way.


Skee, I feel your holla. Shake the rest off.

[mccoyred]

I have read through (well I sorta skimmed ;) ) but I didn't see a particular challenge stated.

Our organizations are NON-PROFIT SERVICE groups. By law, we must refrain from any type of partisan acitivity as a group else we risk our tax-exempt status and all of the other benefits to our status. For example, we can register people to vote but we cannot pick and choose which people we want to register. We can disseminate information on candidates but we must do it for ALL and not just particular ones who go along with our agenda; we are NOT a PAC.

To a previous poster's point, just because the group cannot be a political voice, it doesn't mean that it's individual members are not activist. Most of our Black elected and appointed public officials in Maryland are Greek so we are active! DST has regular social action meetings with legislators at the national, state AND local level.

[Kimmie1913]

Originally posted by Rain Man
HEL-LO!!!


Again, Greeks, PICK YOUR BATTLES!!



Who is battling? All I have seen in this thread is a bunch of folks expressing their different opinions. No movements to block the way of these orgs, no plan a foot to keep them down. If I want to say that most of the ones I see are silly to me, seem fly by night and few show any long term sustainability because once their so called founders graduate the chapter is done- that is my opinion. Just because that opinion ruffles some feathers hardly makes it a battle. In reality, even those who have expressed some mild opposition give these groups little thought and are only talking about them because that was the topic of the thread. Let's not over dramatize the situation- kay?

I do have a great deal of respect for those orgs who have been able to sustain themselves over time and develop a mission and goal they adhere to. I think that when the common theme is uplifting the community people are sometimes too quick to reinvent the wheel just to say they did rather than join an existing group. Not that there is not room for others. There certainly is. I am just reserved in my assessment of a group until I can see what they are really about. And that is not just Af Am orgs. I feel the same about LGLO, MCGLO’s etc. I have a great deal of respect for the men of Lambda Upsilon Lambda, probably because they were founded at my alma mater and I got to see them in action and what they were about first hand for 4 years. (as an example)

[Shelacious]

1. This is the same discussion that the American Heart Association would have about a new group created focusing on heart education for women. All our organizations get our money to implement programs from membership dues, government grants and private and charitable organization contributions. There is not an unlimited amount of money, and if group A gets a grant, there might not be enough left over for group B to execute its programs--so the more crowded the playing field, the more it can effect an organization's programmatic success. If only for that reason, it is a topic worthy of discussion.

2. I would daresay that most of the D9 groups do partner with a variety of other organizations--there is strength in numbers, and a need to collaborate using each’s core competencies. I don't know if that translates to individual chapters partnering with brand new sororities and fraternities, but it could if that made sense for the chapter. Certainly we have allied with organizations that might be considered "competitors" to the D9, like 100 Black Men/Women and others of that ilk as well as organizations like the March of Dimes.

3. I'm guessing that new sororities and fraternities have been being created for many years. The advent of the Internet has made them more visible to the general public, but they have always been there. Personally I have no challenge with their creation. If someone wants to form a social group and call it a sorority, so be it. If someone takes a service group and calls it a fraternity, I think that’s cool. I do take a bit of personal umbrage when the rationale is because "D9 groups are not doing enough, visible enough, down-to-earth enough..." but that's because I strongly disagree, not because you have no right to say it. As many have said on here, it will be time that tells.

[abaici]

Originally posted by TonyB06
I'm still waiting for the first post that said a) these groups couldn't form or b) if they were effective, more power wasn't due to them. But this D9 "aristocratic attitude" charge is largely hollow, IMO.



Me too!

[rho4life]

Originally posted by allsmiles_22


I also have the same feelings towards new graduate chapters being formed in areas where there are already a good number of them. Members say I don't like this chapter or any of the other chapters within this 20-mile radius, so I'll just charter another one. IMO we are diluting our resources and or org when we do this. Different topic though.



Can someone start a different thread about this?????

I don't know how to start a thread!

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by rho4life
Can someone start a different thread about this?????

I don't know how to start a thread!


:eek: You don't? THere is a new thread button at the top of every page in every forum. That's all. :)

[miss priss]

It would be unfair to assume that everybody starting a greek org. couldn't get in to the D-9 but it is the social ills of classism and divisiveness that exist in the AA community hat plagues us. Ideal, truly and clearly no one expects you to be Captain Sav-the Whole-World.....It's just that we live in a classist society where po' black folks look at middle/upper class black folks and say "they aint doin' sh@# for me' and these are the main people that you help.

You said, "The assumption (I realize that it's an assumption and perhaps not everyone's) is that we are stuck up snobs who only do good to get noticed by the media. " You see there are folks who see you as snobs who snub good folks who give too and they ain't greek. Now coming from a mostly greek family I know better....but once again it's my own level of personal accountability. It's not so much as what the D-9 has done/doing, it's what being seen that's done. If you read one of the articles I posted (I think i did) one guy said people see parties/balls and don't see community service projects. You don't have to be greek to work for your community we all know this....but look at our communities they are a direct reflection of what we don't do COLLECTIVELY! Right now the D-9 is viewed as a collectively body in itself. So it doesn't matter if Monique, the AKA, went to Africa and fed the poor. All they see is Monique, the AKA, who hazed girls in Florida. You are unfortunately defined by your association. Once again (community) activism only means something to the person who is involved/doing them; I don't think anyone is disputing that the D-9 IS doing something. It's just that it has been questioned about how much they do do.
It doesn't have to be publish in (print) media to be recognized ,right? But whatever you do in the AA community has to have meaning to why you are doing it. Take MLK he did alot of things but he was martyred in death because (AA) took some personal accountability and he was an Alpha!
Forming sisterhoods/brotherhoods has simply now become a matter of affiliation. Those that chose to have new groups great for them....

For me, this is certainly not a battle of "i do more than you". It's about making EVERYONE have some type of accountability for our communities that look like a tornado hit them and black folxs(in these communities) to stop using the excuse "they ain't gon' do nuthin"...People, just do something!

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by miss priss
It would be unfair to assume that everybody starting a greek org. couldn't get in to the D-9 but it is the social ills of classism and divisiveness that exist in the AA community hat plagues us. Ideal, truly and clearly no one expects you to be Captain Sav-the Whole-World.....It's just that we live in a classist society where po' black folks look at middle/upper class black folks and say "they aint doin' sh@# for me' and these are the main people that you help.

You said, "The assumption (I realize that it's an assumption and perhaps not everyone's) is that we are stuck up snobs who only do good to get noticed by the media. " You see there are folks who see you as snobs who snub good folks who give too and they ain't greek. Now coming from a mostly greek family I know better....but once again it's my own level of personal accountability. It's not so much as what the D-9 has done/doing, it's what being seen that's done. If you read one of the articles I posted (I think i did) one guy said people see parties/balls and don't see community service projects. You don't have to be greek to work for your community we all know this....but look at our communities they are a direct reflection of what we don't do COLLECTIVELY! Right now the D-9 is viewed as a collectively body in itself. So it doesn't matter if Monique, the AKA, went to Africa and fed the poor. All they see is Monique, the AKA, who hazed girls in Florida. You are unfortunately defined by your association. Once again (community) activism only means something to the person who is involved/doing them; I don't think anyone is disputing that the D-9 IS doing something. It's just that it has been questioned about how much they do do.
It doesn't have to be publish in (print) media to be recognized ,right? But whatever you do in the AA community has to have meaning to why you are doing it. Take MLK he did alot of things but he was martyred in death because (AA) took some personal accountability and he was an Alpha!
Forming sisterhoods/brotherhoods has simply now become a matter of affiliation. Those that chose to have new groups great for them....

For me, this is certainly not a battle of "i do more than you". It's about making EVERYONE have some type of accountability for our communities that look like a tornado hit them and black folxs(in these communities) to stop using the excuse "they ain't gon' do nuthin"...People, just do something!

Miss Priss, I take your comments in the sincere spirit in which I think they're given. But to me it just represents an ever-moving target. To some the D9 will always be seen as too elitist, too self-serving, too-whatever else. As to community, ultimately people see and hear what they want to see and hear.

I spoke earlier on this thread trying to shed some light, but will have to let it go knowing that some (not speaking of you specifically) are just not going to get it---and that'll have to be ok. What we do, and more importantly the spirit in which we do it, will go forward; no matter who joins or doesn't join us, and no matter what anyone else thinks.

peace to errrybody.......

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by TonyB06
Miss Priss, I take your comments in the sincere spirit in which I think they're given. But to me it just represents an ever-moving target. To some the D9 will always been seen as too elitist, too self-serving, too-whatever else. As to community, ultimately people see and hear what they want to see and hear.

I spoke earlier on this thread trying to shed some light, but will have to let it go knowing that some (not speaking of you specifically) are just not going to get it---and that'll have to be ok. What we do, and more importantly the spirit in which we do it, will go forward; no matter who joins or doesn't join us, and no matter what anyone else thinks.

peace to errrybody.......

TIA. :cool:

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by TonyB06
but will have to let it go knowing that some (not speaking of you specifically) are just not going to get it---and that'll have to be ok. What we do, and more importantly the spirit in which we do it, will go forward; no matter who joins or doesn't join us, and no matter what anyone else thinks.

peace to errrybody.......

I'm ready for the benediction...are you? :cool:

[miss priss]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
TIA. :cool:
thanks Tony...I guess you never really understand until you are a member, and it was really meant sincerely without trying to offend. It wasn't meant to be targeted at the D-9 but all of US. That's why we are here to learn from each other right? But I got one question ....steeltrap what is TIA?

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by miss priss
thanks Tony...I guess you never really understand until you are a member, and it was really meant sincerely without trying to offend. It wasn't meant to be targeted at the D-9 but all of US. That's why we are here to learn from each other right? But I got one question ....steeltrap what is TIA?

Totally in agreement.

[miss priss]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
TIA. :cool:
thanks Tony...I guess you never really understand until you are a member, and it was really meant sincerely without trying to offend. It wasn't meant to be targeted at the D-9 but all of US. That's why we are here to learn from each other right? But I got one question ....steeltrap what is TIA?

[SummerChild]

Sorry to bring this back up after we're all ready for the benediction :) but I will be brief here miss priss and just say that we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't agree that the D9 is elitist, although depending on one's definition of elitist, almost any group can be deemed elitist. Further, I'm kind of offended at the idea that the hard work that we do is seen as only to gain media attention, especially when *most* of what we do is not even publicized. You gave credit for the impact that the D9 has made in the community and I think that it is well deserved. I embedded a few other comments below.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miss priss




<<Because this is a tri-part question, I'll address them separately....
1.) and 2.) In fairness the D-9, gives heavily to the community and, in some cases, work actively in them; however, unfortunately, (this has been discussed before somewhere) the D-9 is regarded as a bourgeois group of people who attack needs when deemed for media purposes...just because it sounds/looks good.....now we all know that's not true for all the D-9. >>


As I mentioned, this is just not the case and as mentioned, in fact, most of our work goes unpublished.


<<But some people feel that they are not taking a more active role in the political infrastructure of (Black) America, not making full commitments to community charity not just giving to them like they did in the sixties/seventies, and the persistent crutch of approaching the new millennial problems with the old millennial ways. >>


My sorority is registering thousands to vote all across the country, sorors are everywhere holding elected offices, chapters are nationwide hosting non-partisan candidate forums, how is this not taking an active role in the political infrastructure? Concerning not making "full commitments to community charity," ths is an easy thing to say but what does it really mean? We serve the community. Who is to say whether the commitment is a "full" commitment I don't know; however, I do know that we did a million hours of community service last year and not an insignificant amount was with community charities so that's really a hollow claim. Concerning approaching new millenial problems in old millenial ways, our Partnership in Math and Science to address the new wave emphasis on math and science is an example of our *we* are in touch with the new 21st century needs of the community so this old millenial claim is just not valid.



<<These are only a few that I hear....For me ideally, I would love to see a communal interaction occur with people in the D-9....like they do with Habitat for Humanity.....In my community, for instance, most of the Black/Latino community has trash and dilapidated homes everywhere...who's going to take the first step in seeing that these things are done? I personally take part in yearly clean-up...but we have a (Greek) mayor who has the power to say Hey let's get to work...and although he has made some initiative...the work must be continuous not just one weekend...and this is what poor Black folks see....it may not be true but that's what they say they see. The premise is that the D-9 only dedicates a weekend to (that) communities needs, but only a premise, and unjustifiably so!>>


We have joint alliances all the time.


<<2.) We need to empower our people with understanding the true definition of wealth, making a impact on how we address health; also, creating jobs for the jobless, issues like gay marriage and its impact on the Afro-American community, addressing the social ills of welfare, black on black crime, warfare involving the Tutsis in Rowanda, take back our urban schools by insisting that we have quality schools in neighborhoods and the presence of (professional) role models for our young Black men and women to name a few…>>


As I mentioned in my previous email: Education, Economics, Health, the Black Family, and Arts - need I say more?


<<Alpha Kappa Alpha does wonderful things in the community as well as the others …But personally for me, I look at my surroundings and ask myself am I making the difference? Has these orgs. empowered me to want to make one(a difference)? Do I feel important to them? Are they impacting me? Do I have take ownership by what they (the D-9) have given me? These are all personal accountability questions. >>


miss priss, these are questions that each person should ask him/herself so I agree with you that these questions should be asked. I would dare answer that in my opinion, the legacy that Alpha Kappa Alpha has established and given to African-American women all over the world (members and non-members) by her advancements for women, the causes that she has taken up, etc. *has* impacted you as a (presumably) Black woman and has lent a hand to paving the way for you to make the difference that you make today. You (and none of us) have gotten here alone - we are all riding on the shoulders of the phenomenal people who came before us. I would say to consider what a sisterhood of thousands of moving and shaking African-American women have done in each of our respective communities, both as members of the sorority as well as just African-American women and I dare say that no African-American woman (member or not) could *not* not be impacted by that. Each action by anyone in our community affects us all.

QUOTE]

[AKA2D '91]

SC, you are GOOD....That's all I"m gonna say! :p :D :rolleyes: :cool:

[DIVA1177]

You make a VERY impassioned argument for AKA and the D9 in general(aren't you a lawyer?:)). However, the D9 by virtue are elitist organizations. It is not meant in a bad way or is it necessarily a bad thing. Honestly, any organization where you are CHOSEN for membership, is elitist. Elite is not the person with the most money or the best car. I think in terms of D9, it means the best All Around Person. I can remember being an undergrad student attending a "Meet the Greeks" function. The members of the respective G8(No Iota in NPHC back then) organizations were all there and representing. The main focus was how the groups were elitist not because they think they are somehow "better" than everyone else. They are elitist because they want the best for their organizations and therefore want the best people, the most elite people, to represent their organizations. Everybody on the planet can not be an AKA.

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by DIVA1177
Everybody on the planet can not be an AKA.

THANK GOD!!!

;)
:D
:p

[miss priss]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
SC, you are GOOD....That's all I"m gonna say! :p :D :rolleyes: :cool:
here here! :)
But you know, because I am NOT greek, I get the chance to listen and hone in on why GDI's, nun phi nuns, and whoever else feel the way that they do and these are some of things that I am hearing. People view their commmunities and take that as a tool for if something/somebody is working. I do not profess that I represent the disenchanted, rejected, or objectionable few to the D-9. So I hope no one leaves here offended, mad, hurt or pissed at anything I've written..... Just playing devil advocate....;)

What I find is that those greeks that are active in their respective communities are passionate about what they do;generally because they were like that before they became members. Tony was right for whatever reason people will always make assumptions about the "activeness" of greeks...and that's their opinion...but as you stated very passionately that this IS what defines Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority....as I understand from you....you care and obviously others care about their communities.....Delta Sigma Theta,for example, in my community has a serious impact in our educational/civic/social communities as well as Zeta Phi Beta and Sigma Gamma Rho...I am impressed with the level of congeniality and service that these organizations have with each other....

For me, I am more concerned with the commitments the AA community as a whole is making.....When will we (as AA) be personally accountable for what happens in our communities?....My interests lie in applicable solutions not a bunch of finger pointing....Maybe this is another thread but I find that communities in dire straits suffer because they blame everyone but themselves and take divisive attitudes to solutions....

Bottom line I think the D-9 is relevant, it's just that people who feel that they aren't hasn't empowered themslves.

[reddawn18]

Originally posted by miss priss
here here! :)
But you know, because I am NOT greek, I get the chance to listen and hone in on why GDI's, nun phi nuns, and whoever else feel the way that they do and these are some of things that I am hearing. People view their commmunities and take that as a tool for if something/somebody is working. I do not profess that I represent the disenchanted, rejected, or objectionable few to the D-9. So I hope no one leaves here offended, mad, hurt or pissed at anything I've written..... Just playing devil advocate....;)

What I find is that those greeks that are active in their respective communities are passionate about what they do;generally because they were like that before they became members. Tony was right for whatever reason people will always make assumptions about the "activeness" of greeks...and that's their opinion...but as you stated very passionately that this IS what defines Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority....as I understand from you....you care and obviously others care about their communities.....Delta Sigma Theta,for example, in my community has a serious impact in our educational/civic/social communities as well as Zeta Phi Beta and Sigma Gamma Rho...I am impressed with the level of congeniality and service that these organizations have with each other....

For me, I am more concerned with the commitments the AA community as a whole is making.....When will we (as AA) be personally accountable for what happens in our communities?....My interests lie in applicable solutions not a bunch of finger pointing....Maybe this is another thread but I find that communities in dire straits suffer because they blame everyone but themselves and take divisive attitudes to solutions....

Bottom line I think the D-9 is relevant, it's just that people who feel that they aren't hasn't empowered themslves.

I co-sign on this. But I would like to add any organization, greek or not, who plays a role in the advancement our people and the communities that we live and grow is relevant to the nature of what is the African American Community.

Speaking from a non-greek.

[deltalamb]

Greetings Everyone,

I wanted to take the opportunity to reply to the statement that was made in reference to my organization and a few others.
I am a founder of Delta Lambda Delta Sorority, Inc and I must say that in no way, shape, or form are we trying to recreate any of the D9 sororities. We are our own unique organization. We have every right to call ourselves a sorority, for if you check the definition of the word in the dictionary it says:

so·ror·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-rôr-t, -rr-)
n. pl. so·ror·i·ties
A chiefly social organization of women students at a college or university, usually designated by Greek letters.


An association or a society of women.

We are a society of women dedicated to making a difference not just in the lives of our members but in our community as well. Speaking on behalf of myself (and other people that I know, including a few of my sorors) there have been times that I indeed thought about joining a D9 organization when I was in college (and yes I am college educated as a matter of fact all of my members are) but after seeing so many of my close friends coming back to their dorms with bruises and cuts on their bodies, being rushed to the hospital with ashtma attacks brought on by certain activities in which they were not allowed to use their pumps, and seeing friends of mine laying in hospital beds for two months straight after the chapter they were pledging was suspended due to hazing, I decided that D9 organizations were not for me.

As far as starting an organization where you do not need to be a student in order to pursue membership, that right there is a given. D9 organizations are open to students and I have come across many women who for personal reasons could not attend school at the time. Is this to say that they should be denied the rights and advantages of a sisterhood? As far as a sorority for mothers goes, I cannot speak for the founders of that organization but I know a few women who attended informationals for a few D9 organizations and were denied the chance to pledge based on the fact that they were young, unwed, single mothers.

Please do not get me wrong. I truly and whole heartedly respect all of the D9 organizations. I have friends and family members who took that road, but just as someone said earlier, unfortunately some of your members have seemed to stray away
from the vision that your founders had for your organizations. I do not believe that all members have forgotten the true meaning behind the years of hard work that went into pioneering your organizations, but indeed a few members have and unfortunately it is making a lot of people look elsewhere.

As to why we chose to be a Greek letter organization, why did the founders of Alpha Kappa Alpha choose to use Greek letters? The first African American based Greek letter organizations in existence were Sigma Pi Phi and Gamma Phi. If they had given those that came after them the problem and strife that a lot of the D9 sororities are giving to the new sororities that are up and coming then your organizations would not be where they are today.

A lot of us never understood why it is that so many "white" organizations can be created and they are never given any heat for it but the minute an African-American based organization is created we are jumped on for our vision, our hard work, and our beliefs. I do not understand why we cannot just be commended for our efforts and supported the way that we still support and respect all of you regardless of all of the horrible stories and actual witnessing of hazing that some of us have had the displeasure of being exposed to.

Point blank...The D9 organizations were not the first Greek-letter organizations in existence and they will not be the last. You have Black Greek-letter organizations that have been in existence since the 1920's that are not a part of the D9, you have organizations that were formed in the 90's, and then you have those that were created within the past year. The same way that I and my sorors created Delta Lambda Delta Sorority, is the same way that 20 years from now other "sororities" will be created, and when they do, I will be willing to embrace them with open arms and help to guide them because we all have an ultimate vision, an ultimate goal, and an ultimate practice; SISTERHOOD.

Peace and Love,

Aisha
Delta Lambda Delta Sorority, Inc. (http://www.deltalambdadelta.com)

[UNNOspr99]

Originally posted by MeezDiscreet
actually, all of this artwork is wack...

http://www.geocities.com/xilambdachi/pamper.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/xilambdachi/world.jpg

As an artist, I usually don't hate on other people's art, but MY letters look more out of place in this image than everyone else's

in the words of my favorite commercial:

"that's just wrong"

[PhDiva]

I don't profess to know everything (or really anything that isn't public knowledge) about BGLO's. I am a young college professor who is also non-greek. But because I teach Black and Women's Studies, I am often bombarded with questions about BGLO's from my students. For this, I usually direct students to the Office of Greek Life and to individual members of BGLOs.

What I'm interested in however is the nature of this conversation and how dismissive many of you were to RainMan's comments. Granted, his dislike of the Divine Nine is most apparent (so you have to get past the sarcasm and angst to get to the meat of his argument) but his initial question about who has a monopoly on what is considered a legitimate GLO does have merit. Essentially, as I see it, he is asking what Cornell West asked of Black people as a whole in his book Race Matters...what does it mean to be Black in America? Who has the right to define Blackness and on what terms? If my hair is relaxed am I less Black than the sista who wears dreads? Does the NPHC have the monopoly on Black Greekdom?

I can recall from my high school years being teased by my Black friends when I was placed in Honors classes. Then years later, I was leading a panel discussion on being black versus being smart...b/c Black students who were also smart were being asked to choose one identity over the other. What became apparent is this type of "crabs in a barrel" mentality of sorts and regretfully, being closed off to the idea of other BGLO's is about as simpleminded as white folks thinking Black people are inferior and less intelligent than whites.

We have real issues in the community that needs addressing and the F4 or D9 members can't address all of them so why not allow other organizations to peacefully co-exist? Likewise, if someone chooses to join a non-D9 organization, this is not to say AKA's are elitist or she got rejected from SGRho or that hazing is part and parcel of the F4 intake process. This means that person made a choice based on their personal beliefs, values and desires. You can have an opinion about it certainly but sometimes you just need to know when your comments are akin to tearing someone down. It's not always productive for yourself or the community as another person stated earlier.

Our strength as a race has always been our diversity and willingness to adapt to a variety of seemingly endless obstacles placed in our way. Please stop allowing your own egocentrism about the organizations you're apart of keep you from recognizing the strength that is Black America.

PhDiva

P.S. I do agree with you all about the artwork. These images are synomous with particular organizations and folks should refrain from using them as their own.

[ladylike]

Originally posted by UNNOspr99
As an artist, I usually don't hate on other people's art, but MY letters look more out of place in this image than everyone else's

in the words of my favorite commercial:

"that's just wrong"

UNNO, I think the originator of this piece (an artist by the name of WAK) would agree with your "that's just wrong" comment. The original piece did not have greek letters on it at all as well as the piece with the sista on it.

The painting should look like this:
http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/5462/2h/www.artisanartsonline.com/images/b81fawz0.jpg

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by PhDiva
I don't profess to know everything (or really anything that isn't public knowledge) about BGLO's. I am a young college professor who is also non-greek. But because I teach Black and Women's Studies, I am often bombarded with questions about BGLO's from my students. For this, I usually direct students to the Office of Greek Life and to individual members of BGLOs.

What I'm interested in however is the nature of this conversation and how dismissive many of you were to RainMan's comments.

Perhaps if you re-read the thread you'll see that it had several examples of D9 orgs working with other orgs. I don't recall anyone saying a non-D9 group did not have right to form/exist.

Perhaps from your perspective, you share RM's idea that we are elitist. Surely, it will not surprise you to find that many D9 members, particularly those who regularly visit Greekchat, would disagree.

...it really is all about the perspective you bring to it.

peace to you.

[PhDiva]

Tony,

It is a matter of perspective but I hope that my post did not come across with the insinuation that I thought D9 orgs. as elitist. What I was trying to do was to say that there is a place for all organizations and sometimes individuals and/or groups that are older tend to be dismissive of the utility of newer groups. If I implied that I thought these organizations were elitist that certainly was not my intent. I have family members in D9 organizations and they provide useful service to the community and to the members who are part of these organizations. My concern is about opening our arms to embrace other organizations to fulfill different people's needs. There isn't a singular Black Greek experience and one organization can't meet the needs for everyone and shouldn't even try in my opinion.

And there were some comments about the utility of these newer organizations which to me implies questioning their right to exist. I could be wrong...I don't have all the answers but I am hopeful that Black people in BGLO's or not will come to understand that we all have something useful to offer and to not tear someone down simply because the idea is new.

PhDiva

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by PhDiva

What I'm interested in however is the nature of this conversation and how dismissive many of you were to RainMan's comments. Granted, his dislike of the Divine Nine is most apparent (so you have to get past the sarcasm and angst to get to the meat of his argument) but his initial question about who has a monopoly on what is considered a legitimate GLO does have merit. Essentially, as I see it, he is asking what Cornell West asked of Black people as a whole in his book Race Matters...what does it mean to be Black in America? Who has the right to define Blackness and on what terms? If my hair is relaxed am I less Black than the sista who wears dreads? Does the NPHC have the monopoly on Black Greekdom?

HEL-LO!!

PhDiva, you have hit the nail on the head!

Your above paragraph has been my Black Greek political platform ever since I joined GreekChat (It will be 5 years in January). I have made numerous posts on this subject (read my post history and topics I initiated). But most folk here dismiss it until some 40-50something Greek comes up on here and practically repeats everything I say verbatim and (s)he gets applause, praise, and acolades. But no big deal; I tell it like it is, stroke no egos, and pull no punches. OTOH, not too many people here want to get into a debate with me b/c contrary to popular opinion, I DO know what I am talking about.




I can recall from my high school years being teased by my Black friends when I was placed in Honors classes. Then years later, I was leading a panel discussion on being black versus being smart...b/c Black students who were also smart were being asked to choose one identity over the other. What became apparent is this type of "crabs in a barrel" mentality of sorts and regretfully, being closed off to the idea of other BGLO's is about as simpleminded as white folks thinking Black people are inferior and less intelligent than whites.

http://www.geocities.com/jmadindian/aud6.jpg

WAYLE!
UMMMMMMMMMMM-HMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!! *fanning herself*



We have real issues in the community that needs addressing and the F4 or D9 members can't address all of them so why not allow other organizations to peacefully co-exist? Likewise, if someone chooses to join a non-D9 organization, this is not to say AKA's are elitist or she got rejected from SGRho or that hazing is part and parcel of the F4 intake process. This means that person made a choice based on their personal beliefs, values and desires. You can have an opinion about it certainly but sometimes you just need to know when your comments are akin to tearing someone down. It's not always productive for yourself or the community as another person stated earlier.

http://www.geocities.com/jmadindian/aud3.jpg

GO 'HEAD, PHDIVA! SCHOOL 'EM ON THAT KNOWLEDGE!!



Our strength as a race has always been our diversity and willingness to adapt to a variety of seemingly endless obstacles placed in our way. Please stop allowing your own egocentrism about the organizations you're apart of keep you from recognizing the strength that is Black America

PhDiva

P.S. I do agree with you all about the artwork. These images are synomous with particular organizations and folks should refrain from using them as their own.
BTW, I also agree with that P.S. remark. ;)

http://www.geocities.com/jmadindian/aud1.jpg

NOW CAN THE CHURCH GET AN AMEN??


http://www.geocities.com/jmadindian/aud10.jpg

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!

[sunflower02]

Originally posted by Ms.Thang319
Those other organizations are just 2 funny. I guess if you can't get invited into one you can just create your own.
Ms. Thang

It may not be that. Those people who decided to start their own legacy are no different from the women who started DST, Zeta, SGRho or even AKA; they all wanted to start something new and different.

[TheEpitome1920]

I am tired of people thinking that the ONLY options for Black women are the 4 NPHC sororities. There are hundreds of organizations out there, do you. At the end of the day it's your commitment, time AND money, not mine,lol.

[MeezDiscreet]

Originally posted by MeezDiscreet
i mean, really, why do you need to create a sorority for women with children? it's not as if they are excluded from other sororities. and to create a sorority where it doesn't matter what your g.p.a. is?? huh? if you can't even get a 2.5 in college, being in a sorority shouldn't be your main concern.

if you want to have an unwed mothers group, does it have to be a sorority? that's my thing. WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE A SORORITY?? i don't think that these groups are forming out of necessity but rather interest or even issue. when we, the "fabulous four" as i heard us referred to recently, formed, it was because the racial and community climate of the time necessitated it. and, might i add, we haven't lost our relevance. now you got groups, clubs, and cliques (which is what they are) forming and all they are trying to do is re-invent the wheel.

aww eff it. take it how you want. i don't really care anymore because...well, whatever. let me just say that if you have true pride in your organization and your founding tenets and principles, you won't feel the need to justify your existence

as an aside and as a statement meant with the smallest amount of sarcasm intended, maybe the references to old 70's game shows and other non-sensical addendums are the reasons people are dismissive of r.m.'s comments.

[msn4med1975]

Why has this thread been resurrected? I thought we had all resolved to just let things roll and enjoy whatever organizations we were in. And folks ignore RainMain cause it's fun, he's on the list of folks that are just amusing.

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by PhDiva
Tony,

It is a matter of perspective but I hope that my post did not come across with the insinuation that I thought D9 orgs. as elitist. What I was trying to do was to say that there is a place for all organizations and sometimes individuals and/or groups that are older tend to be dismissive of the utility of newer groups. If I implied that I thought these organizations were elitist that certainly was not my intent. I have family members in D9 organizations and they provide useful service to the community and to the members who are part of these organizations. My concern is about opening our arms to embrace other organizations to fulfill different people's needs. There isn't a singular Black Greek experience and one organization can't meet the needs for everyone and shouldn't even try in my opinion.

And there were some comments about the utility of these newer organizations which to me implies questioning their right to exist. I could be wrong...I don't have all the answers but I am hopeful that Black people in BGLO's or not will come to understand that we all have something useful to offer and to not tear someone down simply because the idea is new.

PhDiva

PhDiva,

No offense taken here. Welcome to GC (I shoulda said that yesterday), kick off your shoes and stay awhile. While I hear your contention that "sometimes individuals and/or groups that are older tend to be dismissive of the utility of newer groups" there is simply an equally valid contention that some who may bring such charges have personal agendas stemming from personal situations. It's an ever-moving target. To some we will just never do "enough." No earthly person can do "enough." But I've yet to hear any D9 org, or D9 member here, say we have or that others can't help.

The 120 or so D9ers who regularly post (and a lot of non-affilliated friends who post here and put lots of community work) here talk often about things our chapters and orgs do, but none of us can really speak accurately to the D9's collective impact nationally or internationally. By that same token, those who stand outside and criticize, surely speak from even a less informed point of view. Sure, they have a right to suggest we're dismissive, and some D9ers may agree. But those of us who don't agree, and who do the work, equally have the right to set the record straight against such criticism. I think that's what you're reading, rather vigorously I'll admit, in this thread.

again, welcome to GC. :cool:

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by MeezDiscreet

as an aside and as a statement meant with the smallest amount of sarcasm intended, maybe the references to old 70's game shows and other non-sensical addendums are the reasons people are dismissive of r.m.'s comments.

MeezDiscreet, that is bulljive! I will not allow you or anyone else to use that as a easy (and weak) excuse regarding the numerous legitimate issues I have made regarding NPHC politics and policies here on GC through the years.

I would say no more than 3% of all posts that I have made since I have logged on GC has had any game show references on them. And yes, they are all in fun and are supposed to be amusing (thanx msn4med) b/c it is a visual extension of my true personality.

If we were to be perfectly honest with ourselves, the dismissive remarks are primarily due to no one wanting to own up to their org's shortcomings and inadequacies. NO org is infallible, and when an "outsider" objectively tells it like it is, folk get defensive. That is probably the biggest reason why I haven't joined an NPHC org, I don't want to wear rose-colored glasses.

BTW, PHDiva, I also give you a hearty welcome to GC and thank you so much for your insightful and well-thought out points.

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by Rain Man
.

If we were to be perfectly honest with ourselves, the dismissive remarks are primarily due to no one wanting to own up to their org's shortcomings and inadequacies. NO org is infallible, and when an "outsider" objectively tells it like it is, folk get defensive. That is probably the biggest reason why I haven't joined an NPHC org, I don't want to wear rose-colored glasses.



Who are we to own up to?

The only person I will 'own up to about' Alpha Kappa Alpha is another Alpha Kappa Alpha woman.

:D

[SKEEphistAKAte]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Who are we to own up to?

The only person I will 'own up to about' Alpha Kappa Alpha is another Alpha Kappa Alpha woman.

:D

CO to the SIGN :cool:

[SKEEphistAKAte]

Originally posted by Rain Man
That is probably the biggest reason why I haven't joined an NPHC org, I don't want to wear rose-colored glasses.



Biggest reason, huh?

I find this hard to believe :rolleyes:

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Who are we to own up to?

The only person I will 'own up to about' Alpha Kappa Alpha is another Alpha Kappa Alpha woman.

:D

Precisely. I'm not owning up to my sorority to outsiders. We can handle our own business.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
Biggest reason, huh?

I find this hard to believe :rolleyes:

Believe it, Skee! If I had wanted to join an org, that would've been done a long time ago.

There is nothing, and I do mean NOTHING external that is keeping me from joining. The only thing that is keeping me from joining an NPHC org is me and me only. And yes, not joining keeps my views objective.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Who are we to own up to?

The only person I will 'own up to about' Alpha Kappa Alpha is another Alpha Kappa Alpha woman.

:D

I am not saying to air all your dirty laundry, just to humbly admit to us that your org is not perfect and that there are infrastructure issues to overcome, rather than blow smoke in everyone's face (read: dismiss criticism) and create this illusion that these orgs are akin to heaven on earth.

[AKA2D '91]

That can be done when you (speaking generally) become a member of ANY organization.

How does any of that affect one's day? How does that put food on one's table;clothes on one's back? pay one's phone, light, gas bills? :confused:

So, when that is done, you'll be 'happier than a runaway slave'? :confused:

I think that it is understood, or SHOULD be that the ONLY perfect entity is the higher power above.


(The reason for the season :D)

[MeezDiscreet]

Originally posted by Rain Man
MeezDiscreet, that is bulljive! I will not allow you or anyone else to use that as a easy (and weak) excuse regarding the numerous legitimate issues I have made regarding NPHC politics and policies here on GC through the years.

I would say no more than 3% of all posts that I have made since I have logged on GC has had any game show references on them. And yes, they are all in fun and are supposed to be amusing (thanx msn4med) b/c it is a visual extension of my true personality.

If we were to be perfectly honest with ourselves, the dismissive remarks are primarily due to no one wanting to own up to their org's shortcomings and inadequacies. NO org is infallible, and when an "outsider" objectively tells it like it is, folk get defensive. That is probably the biggest reason why I haven't joined an NPHC org, I don't want to wear rose-colored glasses.

BTW, PHDiva, I also give you a hearty welcome to GC and thank you so much for your insightful and well-thought out points.

okay, #1, you need to calm the hayle down. #2, an "outsider" can't really tell it "like it is" because you think you know, but you nave NO IDEA. #3, CALM THE HAYLE DOWN.

[MeezDiscreet]

Originally posted by TonyB06
Perhaps if you re-read the thread you'll see that it had several examples of D9 orgs working with other orgs. I don't recall anyone saying a non-D9 group did not have right to form/exist.


i think this bears repeating

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by MeezDiscreet
#2, an "outsider" can't really tell it "like it is" because you think you know, but you have NO IDEA.

That is your opinion, one which you are entitled to, and one which I will humbly respect.

Next!

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by Rain Man
MeezDiscreet, that is bulljive!
If we were to be perfectly honest with ourselves, the dismissive remarks are primarily due to no one wanting to own up to their org's shortcomings and inadequacies. NO org is infallible, and when an "outsider" objectively tells it like it is, folk get defensive. That is probably the biggest reason why I haven't joined an NPHC org, I don't want to wear rose-colored glasses.



RM,
Ignorance is bliss to some..and they like it that way. And also, a lot of black members that are in greek lettered orgs didnt really have anything else to define themselves by before they joined, so now they hold on to the orgs for dear life. Some were not pretty before they joined..now all of a sudden they are (at least they think so ;) )..some didn't do a lick of community service before they joined..now they do.. On one hand this is a good thing..I guess...but on the other hand it says a lot about where these folks get their sense of self worth. All that said, its obvious why no matter what some are not going to admit their orgs shortcomings.

Your points are well taken RM, but you're preaching to the choir here on GC with these particular comments!

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by Rain Man
I am not saying to air all your dirty laundry, just to humbly admit to us that your org is not perfect and that there are infrastructure issues to overcome, rather than blow smoke in everyone's face (read: dismiss criticism) ...

Question: You say you've been on GC 5 years. Have you ever seen anyone get on here and say their organization was perfect and/or without obstacles (either internal or external) to overcome. If so, please note the org. page and thread title. I'd like to go read it for myself.

Clearly, no organization is perfect, but please show me how or why it becomes relevant/necessary to "humbly admit" any of this to you, or to anyone else for the purpose of this debate? What is gained by that --by you or by any of the D9 members who'd make said "humble admission"? Would the admission somehow allow us to work w/more determination in our community service? Would it gain your support of our causes?

And, lastly, would such an admission lessen any of the outside criticism (somehow, I doubt it.)

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
RM,
Ignorance is bliss to some..and they like it that way. And also, a lot of black members that are in greek lettered orgs didnt really have anything else to define themselves by before they joined, so now they hold on to the orgs for dear life. Some were not pretty before they joined..now all of a sudden they are (at least they think so ;) )..some didn't do a lick of community service before they joined..now they do.. On one hand this is a good thing..I guess...but on the other hand it says a lot about where these folks get their sense of self worth. All that said, its obvious why no matter what some are not going to admit their orgs shortcomings.

Your points are well taken RM, but you're preaching to the choir here on GC with these particular comments!

Love Spell,

While I could respond with a Hello!, a WAYLE!, or an AMEN!, the only way I can respond to your post is with a big cyber-hug, a smile, and a tear in my eye.

Your post is absolutely on target and well-received! There is nothing more I can say about this; for you said it all.

Carry on, GCers, carry on!

[MeezDiscreet]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
RM,
Ignorance is bliss to some..and they like it that way. And also, a lot of black members that are in greek lettered orgs didnt really have anything else to define themselves by before they joined, so now they hold on to the orgs for dear life. Some were not pretty before they joined..now all of a sudden they are (at least they think so ;) )..some didn't do a lick of community service before they joined..now they do.. On one hand this is a good thing..I guess...but on the other hand it says a lot about where these folks get their sense of self worth. All that said, its obvious why no matter what some are not going to admit their orgs shortcomings.

Your points are well taken RM, but you're preaching to the choir here on GC with these particular comments!

hmm... i guess here's an example of one of my org's shortcomings--sorors who post only when they have something negative to share and who try to pass off their self-righteousness as the truth that people refuse to hear. then, when confronted with opposition, resort to thinking people are either hating on them or going against the word of God.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
RM,
Ignorance is bliss to some..and they like it that way. And also, a lot of black members that are in greek lettered orgs didnt really have anything else to define themselves by before they joined, so now they hold on to the orgs for dear life. Some were not pretty before they joined..now all of a sudden they are (at least they think so ;) )..some didn't do a lick of community service before they joined..now they do.. On one hand this is a good thing..I guess...but on the other hand it says a lot about where these folks get their sense of self worth. All that said, its obvious why no matter what some are not going to admit their orgs shortcomings.

Your points are well taken RM, but you're preaching to the choir here on GC with these particular comments!

See, before I just thought you were confused, but you've now cleared up any doubt. Thanks for the clarification.

You are a part of one of the D9 orgs that Rainman loves to bash (and secretly covets), are you not? But yet you agree with him questioning our very existence? :confused: Why join or continue claiming an org that you don't seem to have much love for and whose primary purpose is the upliftment of the black community when you take every opportunity to belittle that very same community? Counterproductive, much? Your intentions just seem mad shady to me. I'm sure there's some ultra conservative, non-black, debate club out there that would love to have you. I'm not even going to give much thought to that whole "self worth" nonsense. I think everyone reading this questions yours every time you post.

By the way, you've totally misused the cliché "preaching to the choir" in this instance.

Anyway, I've finally read through this entire thread and I think that, as usual, members of the D9 have held it down in here in the midst of naysayers. We've been doing that since 1906.

[AKA_Monet]

I am going out on limb here and playing the "yurugu's" advocate.

Rainman and Love_Spell_6--you two would make a beautiful couple with pretty chilluns... Y'all should hook up...

J/K

Anyhow, maybe you guys are right. Some of what outsiders see is not exactly what really exists in some hellified chapter meetings. And what we present to the outside community in your respective communities could be improved.

And the overall generalize founding of each of the NPHC organizations should not be thrown out like baby with the bath water just because there is not something in the African American community not being addressed. And yes, maybe another black greek organization could fulfill those needs... Who knows, it may work wonders.

And other organizations should have the right to exist to their leisure. And it is the young people that see on their respective campuses that recognizes the perceived discord among the NPHC organizations. So it would be easier to form a new group rather than entering into some mess...

And at the same time, some folks just have not given NPHC organizations there due chance to their final vows and precepts they took during rituals or seriously considered what it would take to be a fully participating member... Basically, nothing was "broken down" to them. So they lash out and hurt those that did see or didn't see their true selves. Then these folks hang on for dear life proving to those they are worthy members or say all out forget it, I'm inactive!!!

And I also think that one cannot complain when they do nothing about it to implement change... If you plan to fail, you fail to plan and you must freely give up your life so that you may live it... So on and so for... And render unto Caesar what is his...

But we are a part of a larger society where its initial intent was to destroy our whole being. That we had to make some sembelences [sp?] to the mainstream society culture. Secret societies were design to implement an underground organization and communication plan of action. To send messages over to the other side when questions were not asked at a time of war... To reinvigorate a positivity among its people and personhood... Most of the NPHC organizations founded before 1930 were the first line of defense before the KKK came in burning down whole African American communities... If it had not been for a few members in organizations to stand up to these lunatics, many poor, impoverished African American communities would be dead due to genocide... Much of like is what happened in Rwanda and what is happening in Dafur...

However, what the young folks are telling our esteemed organizations that our time has passed. Out with the old and in with the new... But I just don't accept that...

I see young teen girls that sorely need an upliftment in self-esteem and education that I cannot quit my commitment to them but through Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. Don't you know the United State government is coming down hard on all organizations and their legitamacy based on Homeland Security... These new African American organizations will be the first to go without our help... Without the vision of those long ago in the NAACP, National Urban League, NPHC and many other older organizations--these younger ones would not exist...

Regardless of the history between the founding of the NAACP, NUL versus the Back to African Movement, it still remains--who has final longevity? Especially in times like these?

Then what right do you have to bring us down?

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
I am going out on limb here and playing the "yurugu's" advocate.

Rainman and Love_Spell_6--you two would make a beautiful couple with pretty chilluns... Y'all should hook up...

J/K

Anyhow, maybe you guys are right. Some of what outsiders see is not exactly what really exists in some hellified chapter meetings. And what we present to the outside community in your respective communities could be improved.

And the overall generalize founding of each of the NPHC organizations should not be thrown out like baby with the bath water just because there is not something in the African American community not being addressed. And yes, maybe another black greek organization could fulfill those needs... Who knows, it may work wonders.

And other organizations should have the right to exist to their leisure. And it is the young people that see on their respective campuses that recognizes the perceived discord among the NPHC organizations. So it would be easier to form a new group rather than entering into some mess...

And at the same time, some folks just have not given NPHC organizations there due chance to their final vows and precepts they took during rituals or seriously considered what it would take to be a fully participating member... Basically, nothing was "broken down" to them. So they lash out and hurt those that did see or didn't see their true selves. Then these folks hang on for dear life proving to those they are worthy members or say all out forget it, I'm inactive!!!

And I also think that one cannot complain when they do nothing about it to implement change... If you plan to fail, you fail to plan and you must freely give up your life so that you may live it... So on and so for... And render unto Caesar what is his...

But we are a part of a larger society where its initial intent was to destroy our whole being. That we had to make some sembelences [sp?] to the mainstream society culture. Secret societies were design to implement an underground organization and communication plan of action. To send messages over to the other side when questions were not asked at a time of war... To reinvigorate a positivity among its people and personhood... Most of the NPHC organizations founded before 1930 were the first line of defense before the KKK came in burning down whole African American communities... If it had not been for a few members in organizations to stand up to these lunatics, many poor, impoverished African American communities would be dead due to genocide... Much of like is what happened in Rwanda and what is happening in Dafur...

However, what the young folks are telling our esteemed organizations that our time has passed. Out with the old and in with the new... But I just don't accept that...

I see young teen girls that sorely need an upliftment in self-esteem and education that I cannot quit my commitment to them but through Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. Don't you know the United State government is coming down hard on all organizations and their legitamacy based on Homeland Security... These new African American organizations will be the first to go without our help... Without the vision of those long ago in the NAACP, National Urban League, NPHC and many other older organizations--these younger ones would not exist...

Regardless of the history between the founding of the NAACP, NUL versus the Back to African Movement, it still remains--who has final longevity? Especially in times like these?

Then what right do you have to bring us down?

AkA Monet,
Since you actually have some valid comments to add to the topic at hand...I'll respond to you....as for Meez Discreet and Bamboozled...I dont even think enough of what you guys said in your posts to address the nonsense..

As far as the orgs..I don't think the legitimacy and the fact that much good is done is in question...DST leads the way on many, many, many accomplishments...however, there is also some negative things that plague ALL the D9 orgs that should be addressed..but are not because some folks refuse to admit they exist. I think some look at it as if the good that the D9 orgs do wipe out the bad...and to some extent it does..but I'm one that always strives for excellence and is always looking for ways to improve. If there our shortcomings, I'm not going to tiptoe around the issues just to appear as if we have everything together. DST's records speaks for itself with all the accomplishments as well as other orgs...

I agree with you that those that sit back and complain and do nothing are part of the problem as well. My main beef with all the orgs is that all this good is done but the ultimate good deed which is leading folks to Christ is often shunned...but thats a whole 'nother topic lol.

All these orgs are a part of our history and have done great things in the past..but as issues in society change, so should our focus and priorities.

Thanks Aka Monet for your always insightful posts ;)

P.S. You trying to play matchmaker? ;) :p

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by Bamboozled


You are a part of one of the D9 orgs that Rainman loves to bash (and secretly covets)...

OMG!! :eek: :eek:

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!

CF&O, CF&O, CF&O :D :D :D *wipes tears from his eyes from laughing so hard*

Bamboozled, thank you so much for brightening up my Friday morning with your wonderful sense of humor. I needed a good laugh after staying up late last night watching a BORING Apprentice finale. Yes, laughter is truly the best medicine.

Also, give Mo'Nique and Sommore a holla; you might become the 5th Queen of Comedy.

Thanx again.

Carry on, everyone!

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
I am going out on limb here and playing the "yurugu's" advocate.

Rainman and Love_Spell_6--you two would make a beautiful couple with pretty chilluns... Y'all should hook up...

J/K

You know, I was actually thinking the exact same thing yesterday...matter of fact, I was reading some of her GC posts to see what her personality is like.

Hey, LoveSpell, you got a pic of yourself on the Look at Me thread? *LOL*

Ok, I'm done, I'm done!

*quickly backs out of room*

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by Rain Man
You know, I was actually thinking the exact same thing yesterday...matter of fact, I was reading some of her GC posts to see what her personality is like.

Hey, LoveSpell, you got a pic of yourself on the Look at Me thread? *LOL*

Ok, I'm done, I'm done!

*quickly backs out of room*

PM me Rain Man. ;) I exchange pics on a 1 on 1 basis...posting pics on the net for random folks isnt my stylo

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by Rain Man
OMG!! :eek: :eek:

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!

CF&O, CF&O, CF&O :D :D :D *wipes tears from his eyes from laughing so hard*

Bamboozled, thank you so much for brightening up my Friday morning with your wonderful sense of humor. I needed a good laugh after staying up late last night watching a BORING Apprentice finale. Yes, laughter is truly the best medicine.

Also, give Mo'Nique and Sommore a holla; you might become the 5th Queen of Comedy.

Thanx again.

Carry on, everyone!

Rain Man,
Now you see why I have a fan club :D

[MeezDiscreet]

Originally posted by CardioRNNP
Is it me?, or are these new black greek sororities trying to re-invent sororities of the D9? You be the judge.

http://www.geocities.com/sigma_beta_xi_03/home.html


http://www.geocities.com/ldjones2601/index.html


http://www.deltalambdadelta.com/

:confused:

:confused: :confused: wasn't this the question that was posed for this thread? i thought so...

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by Rain Man
You know, I was actually thinking the exact same thing yesterday...matter of fact, I was reading some of her GC posts to see what her personality is like.

Hey, LoveSpell, you got a pic of yourself on the Look at Me thread? *LOL*

Ok, I'm done, I'm done!

*quickly backs out of room*

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
PM me Rain Man. ;) I exchange pics on a 1 on 1 basis...posting pics on the net for random folks isnt my stylo

Y'all seent it 1st...

Now if you both mess it up for one another--I'ma be real :mad:

Love_Spell_6 you need to PM me, gwirl...

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
As far as the orgs..I don't think the legitimacy and the fact that much good is done is in question...DST leads the way on many, many, many accomplishments...however, there is also some negative things that plague ALL the D9 orgs that should be addressed..but are not because some folks refuse to admit they exist.

I dunno if I agree with you on that Love_Spell_6--in regards about what the outsider sees... Most outsiders see (those that never pledged anything, much less a BGLO), see many in the D9 as failures. I have been told of the myriads of D9 failures to my face. It sounds like jealousy at first, but hearing these folks, it sounds more like they have been hurt... But that's my opinion of what I have experienced...


Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
I think some look at it as if the good that the D9 orgs do wipe out the bad...and to some extent it does..but I'm one that always strives for excellence and is always looking for ways to improve. If there our shortcomings, I'm not going to tiptoe around the issues just to appear as if we have everything together. DST's records speaks for itself with all the accomplishments as well as other orgs...

I think what you and Rain Man are describing is that age old adage of "the family can fight in private, but appearances must be kept up in public"... And now, with all the reality shows abound, evr'body wants to be all up in our bind'ness... Just for gossip...

Forget always striving for excellence and new ways to improve--so some say... What looks good on television and can you sell it on ebay, seems to be what folks are interested in nowadays...

Who cares if it doesn't work, we get $$$ (pay our dues) for it... And we have adjusted to doing those things be selling a mystique or persona--rather than our true ideals and programmatics meanings of our organizations...

I.E. I will say it, with all the love I have in the world, what is real difference between the D4 Sororities?

You and I (and many others) may know it. But what does the outsider see? Really? The never ever, run in the mill, average, won't ever joing anything in his or her life, negro see?

I ask this because I have worked for many years at the collegiate level and have interacted with young people who have poor definition of themselves to begin with, then just do not see the logic, rhyme or reason as to why organizations exist... Then they feel alienated by us, and form these other greek-lettered organizations--which completely eliminates them from EVER joining our organizations as they mature and develop...

Now if they don't want to EVER join us, fine... I have no problem with that. Especially if they are adding to the perpetuity of their own organization the joined as a collegiate...

But what I find is that many who berated our beings as collegiates and did their own thang, graduated (maybe) from college, then joined the workforce and strived for a better life for whatever reason, realize that maybe they should have not been so harsh and now what to be a part of us--Those are the folks I am talking about...

How do you answer that need?

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
P.S. You trying to play matchmaker? ;) :p

You would want to PM me... 'Cuz I ain't tryin' to bust out on Rain Man... And yeah, if you ain't got nobody or you need to get rid of the fool you wit, you need to speak to this man... ;) :p

[Lady of Pearl]

They say that imitation is the highest form of admiration, I see these organizations, as fulfilling whatever need in these women lives that they somehow lack. The only caveat that I would say is will they be honest about their intentions? and or are they just preying on unsuspecting women's need to belong to a sorority or any organization with just greek letters ? Who will they become accountable to?