Bryant accuser file civil lawsuit

[moe.ron]

Link to the Article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5662597/)

Please discuss among yourself.

[Kevin]

Throw mud and see what sticks.

[TheEpitome1920]

question: Why would she file this suit now versus waiting until the criminal case is over??

[NeonPi]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
question: Why would she file this suit now versus waiting until the criminal case is over??

Probably because now with all the new rulings by the judge, the case isn't looking so good re: fair trial etc. (according to legal pundints) http://edition.cnn.com/2004/LAW/08/04/bryant.case.ap/

As quoted in this linked article... (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uskobe113925657aug11,0,3352805.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines)
"By filing a civil suit, the woman could be enhancing her chances of holding Bryant accountable for his alleged actions. A conviction in a criminal case requires a higher standard of proof of guilt than a judgment in a civil case."

(think what happened with OJ Simpson case re: crimminal vs civil)....

[Kevin]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
question: Why would she file this suit now versus waiting until the criminal case is over??

Either that or she needs the money sooner rather than later.

[moe.ron]

What do you think the effect will be on the criminal trial?

[Kevin]

Originally posted by moe.ron
What do you think the effect will be on the criminal trial?

Hopefully none. Realistically, it's hard to predict these things. Bryant's attorneys are probably better equipped to spin this as a positive for their clients because they have more PR expertise than the prosecution.

ETA: Who cares though?

[valkyrie]

It makes me think that she's lying.

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

yeah, filing before the criminal case was done may be a bad move in the media spotlight.
Hopefully this doesnt affect the criminal case and if Kobe is acquited, hopefully this does affect the civil suit.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by moe.ron
What do you think the effect will be on the criminal trial?

I think Kobe will be found innocent.

I have a very hard time believing that someone who has been violently raped would have consensual sex with anyone else within a few months, let alone two days! Yes, I know it's possible, but certainly not probable.

[AlphaSigOU]

Can't deprive him of his liberty by throwing him in jail, but you can deprive him of his money by the legal equivalent of a shakedown...

Why is this case increasingly looking like a total waste of the criminal justice system?

[CASIGKAP]

Like we didn't see this coming. She wanted $$$ from the start. End of story.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by CASIGKAP
Like we didn't see this coming. She wanted $$$ from the start. End of story.

Right.

-Rudey

[Rudey]

Put the brownhole away for 40 years! If not for this then for what he did to the big man.

-Rudey

[Jill1228]

I think she is lying! It was all about the Benjamins to begin with!

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Jill1228
I think she is lying! It was all about the Benjamins to begin with!

That's kind of what it looks like.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Nobody knows what went on in that room except the two people who were there. How can others be so sure of his guilt or innocence and her honesty or dishonesty?

[mu_agd]

i thought she didn't want to continue with the criminal trial anymore b/c she didn't want her past sexual experiences brought out in court?

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by honeychile

I have a very hard time believing that someone who has been violently raped would have consensual sex with anyone else within a few months, let alone two days! Yes, I know it's possible, but certainly not probable.

Actually, it's not only quite probable, but quite common. Anybody who has studied/worked with rape victims before knows that two very common reactions for rape victims are either:

1) to become afraid of sex/touch and not engage in it (this is the reaction most people think of) OR
2) to become promiscuous (the theory is that these women are trying to gain the control over the act of sex that they lost when they were raped . . .)

The second reaction is much more common than most people realize.

I have no idea what role that plays in the Kobe case because I haven't been following it closely in a long time, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if she had slept with someone else that soon, and I doubt it would surprise most people who work with rape victims on a regular basis, either.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by Jill1228
I think she is lying! It was all about the Benjamins to begin with!

Part of me agrees with this, part of me doesn't.
While I of course wasn't there and don't know and never will truely know what happened, if I were truely raped I would want to see the man rot in jail rather then try to go after his money.
I don't know. I don't know what's going on her head, but this makes me suspicious.
I want to believe her. Some of my closest friends have been rape victims. I would hate to be in their shoes and be afraid that no one would believe me.
Maybe she really won't get a fair trial because of his celebrity status and all the crap the media has put her through so she feels this is her only recourse.

[James]

I thought sexual promiscuity was a delayed reaction to rape or abuse?

Its been a while since I studied that, but if she was promiscious a day after her "attack" wouldn't it be more likely a sign of an earlier abusive encounter?

Just asking for clarification.

PS. I don't think her having sex the next day doesn't mean she wasn't raped. I don't know if there is a high correlation.

Also, the definition of rape has softened a bit over the years. So it might be less tramautic for her to have had a sexual situation go farther than she intended but where actual force or fear wasn't applied, versus some girl being forced at knife, gun point, or beaten into submission.

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Actually, it's not only quite probable, but quite common. Anybody who has studied/worked with rape victims before knows that two very common reactions for rape victims are either:

1) to become afraid of sex/touch and not engage in it (this is the reaction most people think of) OR
2) to become promiscuous (the theory is that these women are trying to gain the control over the act of sex that they lost when they were raped . . .)

The second reaction is much more common than most people realize.

I have no idea what role that plays in the Kobe case because I haven't been following it closely in a long time, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if she had slept with someone else that soon, and I doubt it would surprise most people who work with rape victims on a regular basis, either.

[DeltAlum]

What the legal analysts are saying on Colorado media is that the prosecution isn't feeling as good about the case -- for whatever reason, and that evidentiary rules in a civil trial are much less stringent so the young woman feels she will have a better chance to win.

I kind of think this doesn't look good for her or about her.

[Rudey]

First of all this was one of the most awful cases ever. Her name was released so often it became a joke. At one point I believe the prosecutor did it on their website even. That is just something that is difficult to understand.

As for a civil lawsuit, why not? I mean these occur all the time but when it involves a rape case and a celebrity, it's all about getting money? If it was a beating, then I doubt people would say this. Heck OJ the bloody murderer was also sued and fled to Florida to not pay. The money is to address damages and I guess our judicial system will help to determine whether she is entitled to those damages.

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Only one very small thing -- I believe it was the court's website that accidentally relased the name and other details originally. Although I think it may have happened more than once on different sites.

For whatever it's worth, the coverage I've seen here in Colorado by local media has been very careful in protecting the alleged victin's identity -- even though, at this point, it seems moot.

In my mind, this woman seems more and more of a flake and gold digger. However, that might be unfair since we really don't know the real story. Can't help but feel that way, though.

[Kevin]

This is part of what you get when you have "High profile attornies". From what I've seen, they're not necessarily folks that are great lawyers. The big thing is that they know a thing or three about public relations. Just look at Gloria Allred (hate her). But she's got her s***t together when it comes to the media. I've never heard about how she's a great litigator or anything. She's just good at being a talking head with a law degree and a California Bar #.

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by Rudey
Put the brownhole away for 40 years! If not for this then for what he did to the big man.

-Rudey

LOL, r u talking about Shaq? LOL


Kobe should've hit her off from the jump. I always believed that it was consensual until he got stingy and didn't want to seperate on some ends. Heck, how do u think MJ got away with it for all these years?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Shortfuse
Heck, how do u think MJ got away with it for all these years?

Because he's innocent.

-Rudey

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by Rudey
Because he's innocent.

-Rudey

My bad, I confuse the post. I meant MJ getting away with cheating.

[Shortfuse]

and staying out of BS liek this.

[ZTAngel]

Originally posted by James
I thought sexual promiscuity was a delayed reaction to rape or abuse?

Its been a while since I studied that, but if she was promiscious a day after her "attack" wouldn't it be more likely a sign of an earlier abusive encounter?


I had thought that, too. I always thought that sexual promiscuity after rape or sexual abuse was common in people who had these events happen at a young age. When they're older, they use sexual promiscuity as a way to deal with it. I remember studying this while completing my sociology minor but promiscuity following rape/abuse in adulthood wasn't something the research I was reading dealt with.

[IheartAphi]

Some people act differently to sexual situations. I personally know a very wise and dear friend who was raped a few years ago. It was a horrible situation and a few days later she slept with her best guy friend. Some women throw themselves back into a sexual situation to get over the last horrible experience.

Being a recent college graduate, its easier for me to think that this could occur. Stuff like this happens every day in college. A lot of guys assume that because you are there hooking up, that sex is implied. NBA stars have women constantly throw themselves at them for no strings attacked sex. It could be easy to not think about the consent issue when your used to people just giving it up on command

I personally feel that Bryant thought this was another tryst with women that thrust themselves at basketball stars for fun or bragging rights. I do not think this was violent, but I think he may have taken it a little too far too fast and she was not comfortable. However, her mental and sexual history makes it shaky. The case has been compromised and a fair trial is very unlikely. Twice, documents were accidently given to the defense. Everyone is the US knows how many people she slept with that week and could find her name and address online if they wanted.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by James
I thought sexual promiscuity was a delayed reaction to rape or abuse?

Its been a while since I studied that, but if she was promiscious a day after her "attack" wouldn't it be more likely a sign of an earlier abusive encounter?

Originally posted by ZTAngel
I had thought that, too. I always thought that sexual promiscuity after rape or sexual abuse was common in people who had these events happen at a young age. When they're older, they use sexual promiscuity as a way to deal with it. I remember studying this while completing my sociology minor but promiscuity following rape/abuse in adulthood wasn't something the research I was reading dealt with.

This was my understanding, too - that's why I put a limit on the number of days. I've known more rape victims than I ever thought I would; maybe they're the exception to the rule, but none of them (that I can think of right now) was willing to be even touched within a month or so of the rape.

Let me state this upfront: If Kobe really did rape this woman, I hope he ends up in a cell with the hugest guy in any given prison, and I hope the woman ends up with every cent of the civil lawsuit. But I just get a hinky feeling about this one - and I'm not a big fan of Kobe to begin with.

[DeltAlum]

I would guess that the following would indicate that the civil action will be tried here in Denver:

From the AP, Via Court TV:

"A no-nonsense federal judge who presided over the Oklahoma City bombing trials now has another high-profile case in his court: the civil lawsuit filed against NBA star Kobe Bryant by the woman accusing him of sexual assault.

U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch is best known for handling the trials of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols in the 1995 Oklahoma City case. But in 30 years on the bench, he also presided over a protracted school busing case, the trials of anti-Semitic militants convicted of assassinating a talk show host, and the sentencing of a forestry worker who admitted starting Colorado's worst wildfire.

He was given the Bryant civil case as a result of the random-assignment system used in Denver federal court.

Matsch, appointed to the bench by President Nixon in 1974, keeps tight control of his courtroom. Given to wearing cowboy boots and hats, he sometimes raises his voice to dress down an attorney for asking witnesses repetitive questions, or for coming to court unprepared."

DA comments:

Well, we haven't had a real good media circus for the past few years...Matsch is a piece of work. This should be interesting.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by DeltAlum

Well, we haven't had a real good media circus for the past few years...Matsch is a piece of work. This should be interesting.

I followed the OKC bombing trial pretty closely. This guy does an amazingly good job of managing the courtroom. He'll do everything in his power to minimize the media influence.

[valkyrie]

Oooh, I wonder if I could get a job as his law clerk. :)

[cuaphi]

I would just like to add that you all have to remember this woman possibly attempted suicide twice and may be in treatment for bi-polar disorder. IF she made it up I think there's more going on here than the money. She might be a very troubled young woman. I think statements like "she just wants his millions" are crass and I want to smack anyone who says it.

Just my $.02.

Remember he had blood on his shirt and she was seriously bruised. Lets not just presume he's innocent.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by cuaphi
Lets not just presume he's innocent.
Your point is well taken, but I believe under our Constitution we are supposed to presume he's innocent until proven guilty.

As for Judge Matsch, he does run a very tight courtroom and trial. For the OKC Bombing Trial we actually had a paid media type coordinating coverage, a huge home base platform for standups, etc. The company I was with at the time did all of the transmission for CNN and some others and we had a mini-remote control room in a building on the next block from the courthouse.

The good news is that Denver is much better prepared to handle this than a small mountain town (that's assuming the criminal trial up there will not take place). In the past few years we've had the G-8, the Pope, the OKC trial and a number of other high profile events.

The radio host murder trial alluded to was a talk show host (Alan Berg) who worked in the same building I did until the radio station was sold. Strange guy, but good person.

[AOII*Azra-elle]

Okay. Some of us in G-town *Greeley* think that she did actually have sex with him. When she found out she was just some kind of toy for him to have sex with she claimed rape. I'm sorry, but when you get raped and have sex with 2 more guys in the same night....no, I don't think so...

[cuaphi]

Oh, that's right she went to school there for a year. Do you know anyone that knows her? UNC can be a small school sometimes.

p.s. - my little brother is a recent graduate.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by cuaphi
Remember he had blood on his shirt and she was seriously bruised. Lets not just presume he's innocent.

For some reason, I hadn't heard about the blood. Whose blood was it?

As for the serious bruising, that goes more towards not having sex with someone else than against it - not, of course, taking any possible mental problem into consideration.

[James]

Well, and well.

Lets just say its nice and serendipitious that she may never have to work ever again because of this :p .

The lesson for Kobe is that he should be wary of the mentally ill when he just wants to get some.




Originally posted by cuaphi
I would just like to add that you all have to remember this woman possibly attempted suicide twice and may be in treatment for bi-polar disorder. IF she made it up I think there's more going on here than the money. She might be a very troubled young woman. I think statements like "she just wants his millions" are crass and I want to smack anyone who says it.

[cuaphi]

Originally posted by James
Well, and well.

Lets just say its nice and serendipitious that she may never have to work ever again because of this :p .

The lesson for Kobe is that he should be wary of the mentally ill when he just wants to get some.

Okay, okay. So I read the first page filled with posts that said "it's just about money" and got a little pissed off. I'll back off a little now. However: A) I really don't think the issue is that cut and dried and B) The civil suit is for $70K. No small chunk of change but hardly enough to never work again.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by cuaphi
Okay, okay. So I read the first page filled with posts that said "it's just about money" and got a little pissed off. I'll back off a little now. However: A) I really don't think the issue is that cut and dried and B) The civil suit is for $70K. No small chunk of change but hardly enough to never work again.


Nope; the $75k is for the literal damages to the case; it also seeks unspecified compensatory damages 'to be determined later' . . . she'll get hers.

[damasa]

Originally posted by KSig RC
Nope; the $75k is for the literal damages to the case; it also seeks unspecified compensatory damages 'to be determined later' . . . she'll get hers.

Exactly.

Also, seeing as this is the U.S. we are supposed to assume the man is innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around.

[DeltAlum]

The Colorado Supreme Court has refused to grant a prosecution request to deny the defense use of information on the alleged victim's sex life.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/bryant/081604_appeal_ap.html

This is seen as another big problem for the prosecution.


Former Denver DA Norm Early thinks criminal trial will proceed, high visibility defense attorney Scott Robinson is not so sure.

[cutiepatootie]

Being in California you get pretty sick and tired hearing about this case with kobe. To me i look at her going for civil suit as a way to get something before it ,rape trial, all crumbles apart.

I mean this case like OJ has been tampered with and mistakes made , so when it comes to a trial , and that is if it does, i bet he will get off free.

I am not no psych major but if the next reaction after a viiolent rape is more sex with in hrs or a few days than were talking psycho head case.


To me i was personally awaiting for her to go after some monetary settlement.... it only shows ( not proves) that it is all about the almighty buck!

[IheartAphi]

Not that it matters, but I learned in a psych class that some victims of sexual crimes do go and sleep with others right after. I am sure the majority do not, but in my experience, it has happened and should not be deemed as crazy.

They are saying that the other DNA in the underware could be months old and survive washing (?) I am not sure its plasible

I heart you had bruises around her neck and arms. Could be from a rough experience or a little coaxing.

Also, the bruising she experienced and documented may be from having a lot of sex in a short period of time.