Canada - Facts and Info

[RACooper]

Well since a number of people on this site seemed to be more than a little misinformed about Canada I have decided to post a link to a website that has both information and dispells some myths.

www.canadianally.com

Keep in mind that the site was put togther by the Canadian miliary advisor to the embassy in Washington, so most of the information will deal with military matters and national security issues.... oh and this site is actually targeted at Washington lobyists and advisors, to give them at least some basic understanding of their largest trading partner.

[Rudey]

There are lots of people on this website who crave information on Canada and this would be great for those people who crave info on Canada.

-Rudey
--There are LOTS of people who crave info on Canada

[Optimist Prime]

Cool website, it answered some of my questions. Plus that NORAD thing sounds like a good idea.

[aurora_borealis]

RACooper, I am not finding any information on what is truly important in Canada to the US
For example:
Crunchies
Dairy Milk
Flakes
Aero Bars
KinderSurprise
Milk tray
Roses
Heros
Kokanee
Labatt's
Molson
Comedians
Fodder for South Park episodes
Hockey
Degrassi


Just joshing ya!!
However keep Avril and Celine, thanks!!!

[DeltAlum]

Interesting web page. Thanks.

[Kevin]

Good stuff. Thanks.

[RACooper]

I thought I would put it out there because I served with the officer that is trying to raise awarness of Canada's military and security presence: past, present, future... but he is finding it to be tough going, fighting to get the information out there, as well as countering misinformation in the media or public perception.

I would love to hear commentary (legitimate) about the site's content... so I could pass it along at the next CISS meeting.

[AlphaSigOU]

Originally posted by RACooper
I thought I would put it out there because I served with the officer that is trying to raise awarness of Canada's military and security presence: past, present, future... but he is finding it to be tough going, fighting to get the information out there, as well as countering misinformation in the media or public perception.

I would love to hear commentary (legitimate) about the site's content... so I could pass it along at the next CISS meeting.

Pretty good stuff... few people know about Canada's participation in NORTHCOM (Northern Command, which is really NORAD renamed).

Don't forget also the yearly USAF/Canadian AF exercise MAPLE FLAG as well.

Call me un-American, but the Canadian Snowbirds do a better air show than the Thunderbirds and the Blue Angels... :p :D

[KillarneyRose]

I have a question for you, RACoooper, if you don't mind. Or any other Canadian who might know, actually.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police...do you know what their American equivalent would be (provided there is one)? I don't think they're like our State Troopers. Are they like our FBI? Or some other sort of federal agent?

Thanks! :)

[RACooper]

Well the RCMP could be considered like the FBI as the perform roughly the same function as the FBI & the Secret Service.... were-as CSIS (Canadian Security Intelligence Serivce) could be thought of as the CIA of Canada (although it is strictly domestically oriented).

[phigamucsb]

Maybe that's b/c Canada has no military presence. Their national defense is the U.S. and they don't even have to pay a penny (must be pretty nice). As long as Canada doesn't do something to threaten America's national security, they can rest assured that no foreign country will invade our neighbor. The U.S. seeks stability in regions throughout the world, especially its own.

I'm not trying to harp on you RA, but I have noticed some distirbing trends lately in Canada. For one, why has your government outlawed the Fox News Channel and dished out hefty fines to those Canadian citizens that wish to watch FNC transmitted via their satellites. Next, why does the Canadian government allow such loose immigration policies to exist. These policies put both our countries at risk (i.e. Madrid, Spain). Finally, I'm not sure if a ruling has been made on the American deserter situation, but Canada needs to react in a more timely fashion so that the Army deserters may be tried accordingly.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by phigamucsb
Maybe that's b/c Canada has no military presence. Their national defense is the U.S. and they don't even have to pay a penny (must be pretty nice). As long as Canada doesn't do something to threaten America's national security, they can rest assured that no foreign country will invade our neighbor. The U.S. seeks stability in regions throughout the world, especially its own.

I'm not trying to harp on you RA, but I have noticed some distirbing trends lately in Canada. For one, why has your government outlawed the Fox News Channel and dished out hefty fines to those Canadian citizens that wish to watch FNC transmitted via their satellites. Next, why does the Canadian government allow such loose immigration policies to exist. These policies put both our countries at risk (i.e. Madrid, Spain). Finally, I'm not sure if a ruling has been made on the American deserter situation, but Canada needs to react in a more timely fashion so that the Army deserters may be tried accordingly.

Something that's implied in your argument should be brought to light a little more clearly.

The deserters that Canada basically ignores from what I've seen would probably not be ignored if the US was helping to stave off an invasion of Canada or one of her interests.

The FNC thing I had no idea. I guess some countries don't have our appreciation for freedom of the media. European countries without a Communist threat have been constantly moving towards Socialism. When the government forbids certain media members, that's some scary stuff. Just so Canada knows, the US still allows Al Jazeera via satellite. But fines for watching a news channel? Sounds too 1984 for my liking.

But yes, in general, for all its little quirks, Canada is still one of our strongest allies in the world (since the fall of the Soviet Union we don't have many left since now all these countries don't need the protection of young Americans and their big guns).

[Lady Pi Phi]

As far as I know there are no fines for watching Fox News.
I tried searching on the CRTC website and the only thing I found was a documents about Fox News Canada. Fox News Canada is a speciality channel that will brodcast Canadian content as well as international news from an American perpsective.
I didn't have time to search all the documents I found but I'm sure RACooper will be able to answer this question better than I.
There are many American channels that are specialty channels because of Canada Content policies. Therefore they are on available on satelite or on digital cable and you have to pay quite a bit to watch them.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
As far as I know there are no fines for watching Fox News.
I tried searching on the CRTC website and the only thing I found was a documents about Fox News Canada. Fox News Canada is a speciality channel that will brodcast Canadian content as well as international news from an American perpsective.
I didn't have time to search all the documents I found but I'm sure RACooper will be able to answer this question better than I.
There are many American channels that are specialty channels because of Canada Content policies. Therefore they are on available on satelite or on digital cable and you have to pay quite a bit to watch them.

That would make sense. Frankly, I'd be shocked if Canada censored political content in their TV.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by phigamucsb
Maybe that's b/c Canada has no military presence. Their national defense is the U.S. and they don't even have to pay a penny (must be pretty nice).
I've been to NORAD and I disagree.

It's safe to say that Canada isn't in the "Super Power" league -- but it's because they don't care to be.

[bcdphie]

Originally posted by phigamucsb


For one, why has your government outlawed the Fox News Channel and dished out hefty fines to those Canadian citizens that wish to watch FNC transmitted via their satellites.

I think either you misheard or misread something, you have been misinformed somewhere or that you need tell somebody to pull the other one, because it has bells on it...

I have never heard of the Canadian gov't outlawing a TV station. I can understand if they had to choose between placing a Cdn News Station and a US one, but that wouldn't outlaw it. There are a number of regulations regarding Canadian content in programming, so maybe the quota for US stations was met.

As far as fining Canadians who do watch it - that's a load of bull. Obviously the ministry of Heritage encourages us to watch Cdn stations and Cdn content, but they would never fine someone.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by bcdphie
I think either you misheard or misread something, you have been misinformed somewhere or that you need tell somebody to pull the other one, because it has bells on it...

I have never heard of the Canadian gov't outlawing a TV station. I can understand if they had to choose between placing a Cdn News Station and a US one, but that wouldn't outlaw it. There are a number of regulations regarding Canadian content in programming, so maybe the quota for US stations was met.

As far as fining Canadians who do watch it - that's a load of bull. Obviously the ministry of Heritage encourages us to watch Cdn stations and Cdn content, but they would never fine someone.


Canadians are being fined for watching Fox News because they are getting the station illegally. bcdphie is right when she said that TV shows in Canada have to have Canadian content. When US primetime shows are broadcast here, they are streamed with the Canadian simucast with the Canadian stations that are also showing them, complete with Canadian commercials. Some US cable channels would sometimes show Canadian commercials as well. MSNBC is available on digital cable here and is called MSNBC Canada.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by phigamucsb
Maybe that's b/c Canada has no military presence. Their national defense is the U.S. and they don't even have to pay a penny (must be pretty nice). As long as Canada doesn't do something to threaten America's national security, they can rest assured that no foreign country will invade our neighbor. The U.S. seeks stability in regions throughout the world, especially its own.

I'm not trying to harp on you RA, but I have noticed some distirbing trends lately in Canada. For one, why has your government outlawed the Fox News Channel and dished out hefty fines to those Canadian citizens that wish to watch FNC transmitted via their satellites. Next, why does the Canadian government allow such loose immigration policies to exist. These policies put both our countries at risk (i.e. Madrid, Spain). Finally, I'm not sure if a ruling has been made on the American deserter situation, but Canada needs to react in a more timely fashion so that the Army deserters may be tried accordingly.

Wow... stop listen to O'Riley it rots your brain....

This site is actaully aimed at people like you, to actual inform you about the facts not the myths...

Okay seriously did you visit the website or any of the linked sites? Because you must have missed the military info section or the international deployment section. As for not paying a penny... I have no idea how to respond to that... just wow... so how do we pay for our military, peacekeeping, NORAD, NATO, or any of the other multi-national orgs? Is if from defense contracts to the US maybe? Selling our military designs and equipment to the Marines? Oh wait... do you actually think the US gives Canada money for it's military? HAHAHAHAHA oh thats rich... classic

Second you obviously didn't read the section regarding immigration or border security did you.... oh wait your one of the guys who thinks that the terrorsists came from Canada right? As far as I'm aware our immigration polices closely match yours... and in fact we have per captia less illegal (or unregistered) immigrants... I recommend you go back and visit the site AND READ IT; look for links regarding immigration please.

Third the fining of people who use ILLEGAL dishes to recieve FOX New is because of the dish and not the channel.... their are laws regarding Canadian content on the TV, radio, or print media. The reason FOX News wasn't available (they will be next year apparently as FOX News Canada) is that they wouldn't budge on the Canadian content... although CNN, Al Jazeraa, BBC, MSNBC and the rest seemed to be agreeable to at least showing Canadian commercials..... and now so has FOX News apparently :rolleyes:

As for the deserters... guess what we are another country with our own laws and values. People can seek assulm if they can prove that if returned to their country of origin they will be prosectuted for their beliefs, sexual oreintation, religion, culture; or will face "un-due" hardship. So if the deserters are conciensus objectors or pacifits they qualify... because we as a country require that our soldiers are volunteers (so if you say are Serbian and your unit was to be deployed to Serbia you could object and not go, and "get-out" with no strings attached.. the same applies for pacifits). I am aware of some of these so-called "deserters"... for example the Sgt. who "deserted" after she came home on compassion leave; both her and her husband are (were) serving in Iraq and their children were in the care of the grandmother in BC, but then the grandmother slipped into a diabetic comma.... the military gave this woman one week leave and she deserted to care for her children. So guess what the government has given her aid... and I say rightly so.

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by RACooper

Third the fining of people who use ILLEGAL dishes to recieve FOX New is because of the dish and not the channel.... their are laws regarding Canadian content on the TV, radio, or print media. The reason FOX News wasn't available (they will be next year apparently as FOX News Canada) is that they wouldn't budge on the Canadian content... although CNN, Al Jazeraa, BBC, MSNBC and the rest seemed to be agreeable to at least showing Canadian commercials..... and now so has FOX News apparently :rolleyes:


I saw a bit on something similar on FOX news on my trip. One of the anchors was interviewing a Canadian journalist about the supposed hatred of FOX news in Canada (I didn't see too much of it).... the Canadians here will find this funny - he was interviewing a journalist from the TORONTO SUN! HAHAHAHAHA

[Rudey]

I hear in Canada they keep students back in high school so you end up going to high school for 13 years. I guess RACooper will find he is in good company with many other students who are held back and aging.

-Rudey

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by Rudey
I hear in Canada they keep students back in high school so you end up going to high school for 13 years. I guess RACooper will find he is in good company with many other students who are held back and aging.

-Rudey

Grade 13 no longer exists in Ontario. In any case, even when the fifth year existed, the students were not being held back at all. High school simply took five years to complete. Think of it like a post-grad year that some people take in prep schools. (Post graduate years now exist in a couple of private schools in Ontario, for students who might want to take extra courses or upgrade their skills) High school ends in Grade 12 now, just like every other province, excluding Quebec (their system, oddly enough is similar to the school system in the UK, with high school starting in Grade 7 and ending in Grade 11. This is followed by CEGEP, which when completed, is equivilant to the first year of university. Students with two years of CEGEP enter university with their first year credits completed).

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Grade 13 no longer exists in Ontario. In any case, even when the fifth year existed, the students were not being held back at all. High school simply took five years to complete. Think of it like a post-grad year that some people take in prep schools. (Post graduate years now exist in a couple of private schools in Ontario, for students who might want to take extra courses or upgrade their skills) High school ends in Grade 12 now, just like every other province, excluding Quebec (their system, oddly enough is similar to the school system in the UK, with high school starting in Grade 7 and ending in Grade 11. This is followed by CEGEP, which when completed, is equivilant to the first year of university. Students with two years of CEGEP enter university with their first year credits completed).

It's not something I'd be proud of...you know, spending extra time in high shcool to...upgrade my skills.

-Rudey

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Rudey
It's not something I'd be proud of...you know, spending extra time in high shcool to...upgrade my skills.

-Rudey

Beats the hell out of the majority of people who have no skills at all.

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by Rudey
It's not something I'd be proud of...you know, spending extra time in high shcool to...upgrade my skills.

-Rudey

It actually replaced the "common" first year of university that many American universities offer. In fact, most Ontario universities preferred all American applicants to take first year at home before being admitted to the school. Of course, great SAT scores or AP courses could also be used.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by kappaloo
It actually replaced the "common" first year of university that many American universities offer. In fact, most Ontario universities preferred all American applicants to take first year at home before being admitted to the school. Of course, great SAT scores or AP courses could also be used.

Which is also why fewer Ontario universities recognize AP compared with schools in other provinces. My high school has had an excellent AP program for years (and they still do) but the girls weren't able to use their credits in Ontario.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by kappaloo
It actually replaced the "common" first year of university that many American universities offer. In fact, most Ontario universities preferred all American applicants to take first year at home before being admitted to the school. Of course, great SAT scores or AP courses could also be used.

What is the common first year?

Seriously is this the Canadian version of special education? I can see that.

-Rudey
--Americans demand to know!

[phigamucsb]

I would have to disagree with you on your statement involving the American deserters. These deserters are much different than the American men who fled Canada to dodge the draft (draft dodgers were civilians). Pacifists, the two men in question joined the Army voluntarily, they were not drafted. I don't know about you, but in America joining the military means that there is a possibility that you will see some type of action.
Right now the Canadian govt. is slapping American's in the face, and if the deserters aren't returned Canada is going to have many upset Americans (e.g. The French have lost millions and millions of dollars for their undermining statements and policies. Right now the French are dealing with a large recession). I have no problem with dissent concerning the war, but your government has no right to offer these SOLDIERS assylum.

Regarding your statements about immigration you are incorrect. Currently upon arrival to Canada, immigrants are provided with money, health care, and are not even screened for up until six months. That's right the government doesn't screen the immigrants until they have a chance to. I'm not saying that America does a good job with immigration, but your government actually has these people right in front of the them asking for financial assistance.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by phigamucsb
I would have to disagree with you on your statement involving the American deserters. These deserters are much different than the American men who fled Canada to dodge the draft (draft dodgers were civilians). Pacifists, the two men in question joined the Army voluntarily, they were not drafted. I don't know about you, but in America joining the military means that there is a possibility that you will see some type of action.
Right now the Canadian govt. is slapping American's in the face, and if the deserters aren't returned Canada is going to have many upset Americans (e.g. The French have lost millions and millions of dollars for their undermining statements and policies. Right now the French are dealing with a large recession). I have no problem with dissent concerning the war, but your government has no right to offer these SOLDIERS assylum.

One there are well over two dozen "deserters" sheltered in Canada currently.. some refused to fight because they are Muslim and found the attitudes of the Amercian pulbic and military towards Mulsims in the Middle East and Iraq in paticular disturbing to say the least. Others "deserted" because they were conciencus objectors to the War with Iraq (a position that this country still supports) and as such recieved assylum because they would have been forced to violate thier beliefs if they remained in the US. I have talked to a few that have been to UofT and I can't say I agree with their reasons, but I can say I agree with the decision of the government to provide them with assylum... whether that assylum will be permenant or not is a matter for the courts....

As for slapping the American government's face... so what, the Canadian government and legal system has been treated in the same manner by the American government too... Canada doesn't support the death-penalty (along with most of the "free-world") and is legal bound not to deport anyone who will face the death-penalty.. so if we deport someone to the US who faces the death-penalty, Canada requires legal assurances that the person in question will not be executed or threated with execution... but as it stands the US is still the largest violator of this provison.

Regarding your statements about immigration you are incorrect. Currently upon arrival to Canada, immigrants are provided with money, health care, and are not even screened for up until six months. That's right the government doesn't screen the immigrants until they have a chance to. I'm not saying that America does a good job with immigration, but your government actually has these people right in front of the them asking for financial assistance.

Guess what all people recieve health care in Canada, even the tourists.. so why shouldn't immigrants or refugees. Now as for the sreening process there are two distinct catagories of people seeking to settle in Canada: Immigrants and Refugees. Immigrantion is a process handled before the actual arrival of the immigrant.. ie. initial security checks and such are done prior to arrival, based on the information provided. Post-arrival secondary checks are performed six-months later on some of the immigrants "flagged" by security, intelligence, or criminal investigation units. Refugees on the other hand give no prior warning to their arrival, so the security and background checks are handled differently. Current policy is to provide comfort and care to all refugee claimants with security checks being performed while they are in Canada... sometimes these checks turn-up the fact that they entered Canada under false pretenses and they are deported... while the system isn't perfect (nothing every is) it is in keeping with the international obligations and traditions of Canada.... once again please visit the site and follow links in order to be provided with more detailed and official documentation.

[CanadianTeke]

I don't think Assylum has actually been granted, the last i heard it was before the courts. When you claim refugee status (or assylum same legal category) you have to prove it is necessary, if it is deemed that assylum won't be granted then you can appeal as far as the Supreme Court, these soldiers could be inside of the Canadian legal system for the next 10 years. This is perfectly legitimate, the Canadian government and our legal system should not be America's whipping boy, we have our own constitution and inalienable rights and no pressure from an outside government, friend or foe should change that.

[moe.ron]

Chill with the personal attacks.

If you want to engaged in personal attacks, use PM.

[DeltAlum]

From the GreekChat TOS:

By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you.

[Tom Earp]

I guess personal attacks are the vouge for some.

No names so as not to get whined about:p

RAC, ignorance is not just found any any single Country or City or Greek Organization.

Some are just better at it than others.

I for one have always been intrigued by Canada and wish I could visit it!

I dont pretend to be an expert, so I am glad to learn new things daily!:)

[phigamucsb]

Who is launching personal attacks?

[phigamucsb]

I've seen crap posted on this website that was absolutely ridiculuos, profane, and sexually perverse, yet nobody did anything about it. I haven't seen anything on this thread that comes close to the crap that was allowed to stay posted on the Phi Gamma Delta board for over a month.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by phigamucsb
I've seen crap posted on this website that was absolutely ridiculuos, profane, and sexually perverse, yet nobody did anything about it. I haven't seen anything on this thread that comes close to the crap that was allowed to stay posted on the Phi Gamma Delta board for over a month.

Look at the moderators for this forum. Moe.ron and Tke are moderators. The Lambda Chi and that Delt have nothing to say in this forum regarding moderating. It's not their job.

Now who made personal attacks? I'd like to know also. There was actually an STD outbreak in Canada. Is that a lie? No. So why erase it? I want to know how the government dealt with it.

-Rudey
--Rudey always wins...you can talk all you want about him, but he wins.

[moe.ron]

phigamucsb, like Rudey said, neither of us are the moderators for the fiji board. My responsibility is only in this forum and the other forum that I moderate.

BAck to the topic kiddies.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Rudey
Look at the moderators for this forum. Moe.ron and Tke are moderators. The Lambda Chi and that Delt have nothing to say in this forum regarding moderating. It's not their job.

Now who made personal attacks? I'd like to know also. There was actually an STD outbreak in Canada. Is that a lie? No. So why erase it? I want to know how the government dealt with it.

-Rudey
--Rudey always wins...you can talk all you want about him, but he wins.

Rudey, in my reply to your previous posts, I did a few google searches for it, but could only come up with Canadian porn sites -- some of them apparently involving anal warts.

Canadians are some sick people :D

[Rudey]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Rudey, in my reply to your previous posts, I did a few google searches for it, but could only come up with Canadian porn sites -- some of them apparently involving anal warts.

Canadians are some sick people :D

LOL When you said that I didn't do the search at work because I was scared what would pop up. This weekend I'll do the search.

I don't understand what all this hubub is about.

Canada is Canada. Nobody hates Canada. The US appreciates Canada's friendship but we also feel they should appreciate the benefits they receive because their neighbor just below is the world's only current superpower economically and militarily. I would say the same for any country the US has ties to like South Korea and Israel.

My opinion about Canada? Quebec and the old city are beautiful. I could see myself staying in Montreal and parts of Toronto. The country's ties to Chicago in terms of Second City have produced the best minds in comedy ever and I still watch SCTV. I don't like the fact that some people in the country carry a Napolean complex about their country, but whatever. There were too many strip clubs and lower income folk along the border for my taste. Again all personal opinion. Mostly I don't care enough about Canada...it isn't the spiciest standout place ever (again in my opinion). I don't see a need to constantly carry around that Napolean complex and keep talking about why Canada is so great...just let it be.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

This is not a thread to wave the Canadian flag and chant jingoistic slogans... instead it is a thread meant to provide education about the US's neighbor to the north...

What you take from the information provided is your own choice, but I ask that people try to make an honest effort to learn what they can from the material istead of relying on old or tired preconceptions.

[Rudey]

Also my wealthiest family members are Canadian. Of course their most famous project was an American one. They won the Great Canadian Award.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Well....

Once every few days I've decided to post something related to Canadian history or facts... just to keep the educational ball rolling so to speak. So in keeping with the patriotic posts and signatures of some members I've decided to pass on something patriotic from Canada.

In the US there is the "Star Spangled Banner"... we have "O' Canada"; the US has "God Bless America" while Canada has "God Save The Queen" (or King). But does Canada have an equivalent to "America The Beautiful"?

Yep "The Maple Leaf Forever", written in 1867 for the Confederation of Canada by school teacher Alexander Muir (1830-1906). Now this song hasn't escaped the revisionism of political correctness, as some have found the original lyrics exclussionary.... but I'll post the original as there are currently to many "new" versions to post.... so here it is.

The Maple Leaf Forever

In Days of yore,
From Britain's shore
Wolfe the dauntless hero came
And planted firm Britannia's flag
On Canada's fair domain.
Here may it wave,
Our boast, our pride
And joined in love together,
The thistle, shamrock, rose entwined,
The Maple Leaf Forever.

CHORUS:
The Maple Leaf
Our Emblem Dear,
The Maple Leaf Forever.
God save our Queen and heaven bless,
The Maple Leaf Forever.

At Queenston Heights and Lundy's Lane
Our brave fathers side by side
For freedom's home and loved ones dear,
Firmly stood and nobly died.
And so their rights which they maintained,
We swear to yeild them never.
Our watchword ever more shall be
The Maple Leaf Forever

*CHORUS*

Our fair Dominion now extends
From Cape Race to Nootka Sound
May peace forever be our lot
And plenty a store abound
And may those ties of love be ours
Which discord cannot sever
And flourish green for freedom's home
The Maple Leaf Forever

*CHORUS*


Here is a link to a MIDI version of the song:
http://www.canadafirst.net/mapleaf.mid

Interesting factoid:
This song was piped (bagpipes) by the 48th Highlanders at the opening game of the Toronto Maple Leafs up until aproximately 20 years ago... and before home play-off games. The founder, Conn Smythe, of the Toronto Maple Leafs was also an officer in the 48th Highlanders during the First World War - he felt the song not only patriotic but intimidating for the other team.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Good Post.

Maybe if they still played that song at Leaf games, they'd win ;)

Not many people know this song. I think I've only sung it a couple of times.

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
Not many people know this song. I think I've only sung it a couple of times.

I haven't sang it since my elementary days, and only then because I did a project on folk tunes. I really do think they should "revive" this song. Canadian folk tunes are beautiful and deserve to be sung on more regular occasions!

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by kappaloo
I haven't sang it since my elementary days, and only then because I did a project on folk tunes. I really do think they should "revive" this song. Canadian folk tunes are beautiful and deserve to be sung on more regular occasions!

Agreed. I personally think "God Save the Queen" should be sung more often too. The only time I ever sang that song was at brownies. We woul alternate with "God Save the Queen" and "O' Canada".

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
Agreed. I personally think "God Save the Queen" should be sung more often too. The only time I ever sang that song was at brownies. We woul alternate with "God Save the Queen" and "O' Canada".

I think I only sang "God Save the Queen" twice in Brownies, when we were working on the Canada badge as a pack (they're not called Packs anymore, btw...when I returned as Junior Leader in the mid '90s, the term pack, company, etc have all gone, and they're now referred to as "units" all the way through). I agree with Rob that "Maple Leaf Forever" should be played at Leaf home games. :)

[Lady Pi Phi]

What about the groups that are co-ed?
Or did that not take off?
I know they wanted to turn the scouts co-ed or something along those lines.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
Agreed. I personally think "God Save the Queen" should be sung more often too. The only time I ever sang that song was at brownies. We woul alternate with "God Save the Queen" and "O' Canada".

Okay the reason why they don't do the Maple Leaf Forever before Leaf game is that Ballard hated the song.... that and it was considered in bad taste for the French Canadians; which has led to a number of alternate new versions being written... but a single one hasn't really been settled on. However it's only the lyrics that are in question not the music itself so I'd still love to see the 48th Highlanders Pipes and Drums play it before play-off games :)

The only place that I hear "God Save The Queen" regularly now is at the Rememberance Day service at Soldier's Tower, the Veterans and Trinity College are sticklers for tradition. My chapter used to sing it at our own service up until 3 years ago, but too many complaints/mocking by the American brothers led the newer brothers to drop it from the program... but we still do a toast to the Queen at our formal dinners (just try to stop the Alumni).

[Lady Pi Phi]

I'm glad some of your brothers still sing "God Save the Queen".
I just think it should be sung more often considering she is our head of state.
I know when my mother received her citizenship she had to pledge allegience to the Queen.

Side story, my laughed when the judge told her that and he didn't think it was very funny. The only reason my mother laughed when he said that was she immigrated from England.

[bcdphie]

I haven't sung God Save the Queen since high school. We used to sing it at formal assemblies and such. I would like to have the opportunity to sing it more often. I am biased since both my parents are English; however, we are part of the Commonwealth and the Queen is the head of state, and it would be nice to still recognize that somehow.

In fact, the only chance I get to sing O Canada anymore is at hockey or football games, and that's only in English; I haven't sung it in French in years.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
What about the groups that are co-ed?
Or did that not take off?
I know they wanted to turn the scouts co-ed or something along those lines.

Scouts Canada is indeed co-ed (I think there might be some guys only units though). Guides said that they don't intend to go co-ed because they wanted to encourage leadership for girls.

ETA: I should add that Scouts went co-ed just before they showed that some boys too learn better in a single-sex environment. Guides decided not to go co-ed because the studies for girls were released back in the late 80s-early 90s. BTW, I believe that the Scouting branches for older kids went co-ed long before Beavers, Cubs and Scouts did.

[RACooper]

Alrighty then... I've had a few PM requests for the "new" version of "The Maple Leaf Forever". So here is the one that is currently accepted by the government as an acceptable re-write of the original (please note that it has both English and French verses):

The Maple Leaf Forever
The New Lyrics
Written by Vladimir Radian


O, land of blue unending skies,
Mountains strong and sparkling snow,
A scent of freedom in the wind,
O'er the emerald fields below.

To thee we brought our hopes, our dreams,
For thee we stand together,
Our land of peace, where proudly flies,
The Maple Leaf forever.

-CHORUS-
Long may it wave, and grace our own,
Blue skies and stormy weather,
Within my heart, above my home,
The Maple Leaf forever!


From East and West, our heroes came,
Throught icy fields and frozen bays,
Who conquered fear, and cold, and hate,
And their ancient wisdom says:

Protect the weak, defend your rights,
And build this land together,
Above which shine the Northern Lights,
And the Maple Leaf forever!

-CHORUS-
Long may it wave, and grace our own,
Blue skies and stormy weather,
Within my heart, above my home,
The Maple Leaf forever!

Sur mers sauvages ou glaciers durs,
Tant d'heros se sont suivis,
En conquerant la peur, le froid,
Et les tempetes de leurs vies.

Et tant de braves, rouges ou blancs,
Reposent ici ensemble,
De noble sang, de tant de neige,
Est nee la feuille d'erable.

-Refrain-
De leurs exploits, de leurs travaux,
Et leur courage sublime,
Dans leurs vieux reves reunis,
Puisons nouvelles racines.

-Refrain Reprise-
Sur nos montagnes, dans nos prairies,
A travers temps et sable,
Aimons toujours la fleur de lys,
Toujours, la feuille d'erable.


Oh, Maple Leaf, around the world,
You speak as you rise high above,
Of courage, peace and quiet strength,
Of the Canada I love.

Remind us all our union bound,
By ties we cannot sever,
Bright flag revered on every ground,
The Maple Leaf forever!

-CHORUS-
Long may it wave, and grace our own,
Blue skies and stormy weather,
Within my heart, above my home,
The Maple Leaf forever!

This is the version that they have given out the Olympic athletes and the CBC in the hopes that they will sing it..

I have tried to find a good version of the origional or the new version being sung, but all I have been able to find in the public domain are sappy solos... oh well.

[Optimist Prime]

What happened to Oh Canada? I was so proud of myself that I learned all the words, now I have to learn more. :( :confused:

[Lady Pi Phi]

"O' Canada" is still our national anthem.
If you read RACoopers earlier posts you would know that "The Maple Leaf Forever" iis our equivalent to your "America The Beautiful".

[RACooper]

In keeping with the purpose of this thread I’m posting another tidbit of information about Canada… and since a number of posts on other threads have concerned the military (and my experience with it) I have decided to post some information about the military… in this case the highest military decoration in Canada (and the British Commonwealth): The Victoria Cross (or VC).

Now the Victoria Cross can be thought of as being roughly equivalent to the Medal of Honor (MoH) in the US, both awards came into being around the same time VC (1856 but retroactive to 1854), MoH (1861), and both are awarded for conspicuous bravery, heroism, and gallantry.

Now the VC while an award than can be given to any member of the armed forces is somewhat more rare than the MoH, almost a third as many VCs (1354) as MoHs (3459) have been awarded.
Trivia:
* Each medal is made from metal that comes from the cascabels (large knob at the end of a cannon) of two cannons captured at Sebastopol (last great battle of the Crimean War).
* Incredibly it wasn’t until 1920 that an amendment was made allowing for the awarding of a posthumous VC.
* There is no barrier of colour, creed, sex or rank (unlike many military decorations which have different types for officers and other ranks).
* Fourteen men not born British or Commonwealth citizens have received the VC; five Americans-(although 4 were serving with Canadian units- Link: (http://www.victoriacross.net/subnat.asp?nat=6), one Belgian, three Danes, two Germans, one Swede, a Swiss and a Ukrainian.
* The ribbon was originally red for the Army and blue for the Royal Navy but when the Royal Air Force was formed in 1918 it was changed to red for all the services.
* The Victoria Cross is still awarded only by Royal assent and is presented by the monarch.
* Since 1945 the VC has been awarded only 11 times (4 during the Vietnam War to Australians, while the last two occasions were during the Falklands War in 1982).
* Only 3 men have ever been awarded the VC twice (entitling them to an extra bar on the ribbon): Noel Chavasse, Arthur Martin-Leake, and Charles Upham
* To date no woman has won the VC.
* The only ungazetted (un-named) VC was presented to the WWI American Unknown Soldier buried at Arlington National Cemetery.
* When the VC was first instituted a special pension of 10 pounds per annum was made payable to all non-commissioned ranks. In July 1898 it was decided this amount might be increased in times of need, at discretion, to 50 pounds then later to 75 pounds. It was not until 1959 that the pension was allowed irrespective of rank and increased to 100 pounds. In 1995 it was increased to 1,300 pounds and at that time there were 33 recipients still alive.
* A recipient of the medal regardless of rank must be saluted; so even a General or Field Marshal would have to salute or rise in the presence of a Private who had been awarded the VC.

Canada Specific Facts:
* Leo Clarke, Fred Hall, and Robert Shankland all lived in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. They all happened to live on the same street, Pine Street and it is believed to be the only street in the world to have three Victoria Cross winners that lived there. The city of Winnipeg later renamed it Valour Road in honour of the men. A bronze plaque is mounted on a street lamp to tell this story
* Canada instituted its own Honours and Awards some time ago and the VC remained the highest award. However, the motto FOR VALOR was changed to the Latin PRO VALORE although the Canadian Victoria Cross still needs full royal assent from the Queen to be awarded. No new Canadian VCs have yet been awarded.
* Canadians have been awarded the VC a total of 90 times.
* The first Canadian to win the VC was Alexander Robert Dunn, for actions at Balaclava – 25 October 1854 (Charge of the Light Brigade).
* The third Canadian to win the VC was William Hall, for actions at Lucknow India – 16 November 1857 (Indian Mutiny), was the first person of colour to win the award.

Other Links:

Victoria Cross Website:
http://www.victoriacross.net/default.asp
Specific Info on Medal itself:
http://www.victoriacross.net/medal.asp
Listing of Canadian Victoria Cross Recipients:
http://www.victoriacross.net/subnat.asp?nat=5

[Lady Pi Phi]

I'm putting this here because I don't know if it really needs a whole thread since only a few of us probably have heard about this incedent.

Well Dudley George was shot and killed at Ipperwash by the OPP in 1995.

It's taken them 9 years to have an inquiry. Why?

Here's a link to a CBC news article.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/ipperwash/

[RACooper]

I hope that this inquest is as detailed as they can make it... so then some of the crap that both sides have spouted can be brought to light... yes some of the cops were racists a**holes and yes some of the natives were armed... problem is neither side is willing to admit that they may have been partially to blame...

[Lady Pi Phi]

Is there any video evidence that the Native were armed?

[Rudey]

I wish there were more Canadian products in use so Americans could boycott them.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
Is there any video evidence that the Native were armed?

Not that I know of... but this was before everyone had video cameras everywhere... but the military might. The Canadian Military was still in control of Ipperwash before the hand over, and they conducted some helicopter recce flights over the area as training... and I do know that at least three helicopter's recieved some ground-fire and recorded damage. I remeber it was a big stink because the General in charge of Army Cadets came to Ipperwash to recieve the last of the Cadet related historical pieces... and his chopper took two bullet strikes in the fuselage.

[kappaloo]

It is not so much that the Natives were armed, but that Dudley George was shot - unarmed - in the back.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by kappaloo
It is not so much that the Natives were armed, but that Dudley George was shot - unarmed - in the back.

I'm from London, and it was huge news around here.

That's the issue here yes.

But the OPP are justifying opening fire because they said that some of them were armed.
The natives are saying no one was armed.
We know Dudley George wasn't armed, so why was he shot? Were some of the natives armed and he accidently got in the way?

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Yay for Canada- my possible future home.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
Yay for Canada- my possible future home.

As a secondary history ed major, you'd enjoy the high salary that they pay teachers. I'm not sure if they'll recognize your degree though. You might need to become a student for awhile longer.

Then of course, with that high salary you'll command, you'll be pleased to know that their tax rate is MUCH higher than what you'll pay here in the US.

It could be good for you. At least you won't be oppressed.

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

I've actually looked into what it would take to teach in Toronto and when I was flown to NYC last summer to convince me to teach there I found out that the pay in Toronto is about the same as the pay in NYC. So I have a feeling I may live on Staten Island and party in West Village and Chelsea for a few years before returning to an environment closer to my native habitat. Maybe a college town in Canada close to Michigan- where I can have an acreage and some woods.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
I've actually looked into what it would take to teach in Toronto and when I was flown to NYC last summer to convince me to teach there I found out that the pay in Toronto is about the same as the pay in NYC. So I have a feeling I may live on Staten Island and party in West Village and Chelsea for a few years before returning to an environment closer to my native habitat. Maybe a college town in Canada close to Michigan- where I can have an acreage and some woods.

London, Ontario is nice. I visited there. Had a really nice place -- I think it was called the Brass Rail (or maybe that was in Toronto).

We almost got mugged there though.

[Lady Pi Phi]

The Brass Rail is in Toronto and only about 4 blocks away from where I work :D
Classy place! ;)

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
I've actually looked into what it would take to teach in Toronto and when I was flown to NYC last summer to convince me to teach there I found out that the pay in Toronto is about the same as the pay in NYC. So I have a feeling I may live on Staten Island and party in West Village and Chelsea for a few years before returning to an environment closer to my native habitat. Maybe a college town in Canada close to Michigan- where I can have an acreage and some woods.

Just some FYI for you if you want to teach in Ontario: http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/document/nr/02.03/teacher.html

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
That's the issue here yes.

But the OPP are justifying opening fire because they said that some of them were armed.
The natives are saying no one was armed.
We know Dudley George wasn't armed, so why was he shot? Were some of the natives armed and he accidently got in the way?

These are some of the questions I'd like to see answered myself... but I also hope that the historical context is also taken into account, because I remember a number of comparrisons made to Oka.

For those who don't know what Oka is here's a good link:
http://archives.cbc.ca/300c.asp?IDCat=71&IDDos=99&IDLan=1&IDMenu=71

Interesting factiod.. the soldier from the "showdown" was later arrested for dealing cocaine.. which is one reason why the image was never used in a recruitment campaign (that and the military didn't want to alienate the Native Peoples further).

[Rudey]

Did we ever get any statistics about how anal warts were spread through the Canadian civilian population from the military?

-Rudey
--Cooper do you know?

[moe.ron]

Chill with the personal attacks people.

[RACooper]

Well it’s been some time since I (or anyone) has posted in this thread so here goes…

With some recent controversy over “deserters” and such in the Iraq Conflict, and other people commenting on Canada’s historic commitment to military or international matters. While their have been some US citizens that have come to Canada because of the Iraq conflict, many more Canadians have instead joined the American military (they are now banned, along with all non-nationals, from being officers)… a situation somewhat reminiscent to what happened at the same time as the Vietnam conflict.

I thought that this article would add some historical perspective. It is taken from a support site for Vietnam vets, and is a reprint of the article, which appeared in Vietnam Magazine.

http://www.vwam.com/vets/canadians.html

This article may shed some light on what may await Canadians who served with the American forces in Iraq.

[NeonPi]

Happy Simcoe Day tomorrow, for those in Ontario - or whatever your August Civic Holiday is called in your province (AB = Western Heritage Day)

Good to see you back, Rob!:cool:

[Rudey]

Originally posted by NeonPi
Happy Simcoe Day tomorrow, for those in Ontario - or whatever your August Civic Holiday is called in your province (AB = Western Heritage Day)

Good to see you back, Rob!:cool:

He never left. Remember when you insulted me in that thread? That must have been a proud moment for you.

Anyway I think any Canadian that serves in our wars should be commended. If their countrymen don't want them, our country should take them.

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

At the opening of the final banquet at the Delt Karnea (International convention) last night here in Denver, the Delt Chorale opened the dinner with both the Star Spangled Banner and Oh Canada.

It's the first time I remeber that happening. Being a long time admirer of Oh Canada (and our national anthem, of course), I was very nicely surprized.

[NeonPi]

Originally posted by Rudey
He never left. Remember when you insulted me in that thread? That must have been a proud moment for you.

Anyway I think any Canadian that serves in our wars should be commended. If their countrymen don't want them, our country should take them.

-Rudey

I agree that it is commendable when people from other countries volunteer to serve for another country (ie. Americans who volunteered for the British Royal Air Force before the US entered WWII). I have a friend that enlisted with the US Army to serve in Iraq, and I support his choice.

Rudey, I wasn't meaning to be insulting. It is just that some of your postings/reactions to posts seem so angry, it is hard to get to the points you do raise - that's all. (I think we all can empathsize when it is obvious that someone has responded but hasn't read your post completely - it's happened to me a few times on GC myself.)

...and now back to the regularly scheduled programme...er, thread :D

[RACooper]

Originally posted by NeonPi
I agree that it is commendable when people from other countries volunteer to serve for another country (ie. Americans who volunteered for the British Royal Air Force before the US entered WWII). I have a friend that enlisted with the US Army to serve in Iraq, and I support his choice.

Rudey, I wasn't meaning to be insulting. It is just that some of your postings/reactions to posts seem so angry, it is hard to get to the points you do raise - that's all. (I think we all can empathsize when it is obvious that someone has responded but hasn't read your post completely - it's happened to me a few times on GC myself.)

...and now back to the regularly scheduled programme...er, thread :D

See while people may personally commend the actions of these indivuals who serve in other militaries... it is the issue of government recognition.

For example would you say that a citizen who fought in for another country, in a conflict that the Canadian government or military didn't offical participate in, be eligible for the same benifits as veterans who did? If you want to attach qualifiers to this, then you run into more ethical or political problems.. such as which conflict do you recognize? which countries do you recognize as acceptable? do you reduce all veterans benifits to compensate for the increased demand? do you grant benifits to foreign veterans who have then immigrated to Canada? do you give the same recognition to these foreign veterans as Canadians who volunteered for their country? do you then have to recognize foreign veterans who served with hostile countries?

It's a complex issue and one that I see debated almost annually at the Legion, and one with a lot of invested emotions and ethics attached.

Keep in mind though that change does happen sometimes, as in the case of the Merchant Marine - they now have some recognition and many benifits - but not all. Arguements in that cse revolved around the designation of the Merchant Marine as non-military or non-combatant personnel... many veterans who did serve felt it wrong to recognize them on the same level of those who volunteered to fight...

[NeonPi]

Originally posted by RACooper
See while people may personally commend the actions of these indivuals who serve in other militaries... it is the issue of government recognition.

...

It's a complex issue and one that I see debated almost annually at the Legion, and one with a lot of invested emotions and ethics attached.



Exactly - very tricky indeed - my friend was conflicted about this, but decided to go ... I am just supportive of him making a decision one way or the other.

[RACooper]

Well it's the same for me; I know people who felt strongly enough about Iraq or the War on Terror that they joined the Marines... wereas I know Marines that considered leave the forces over the issue.

It's a touchy issue at the Legion, just as it's a touchy issue a my mutal-support group for PTSD - 80% of the group are Vietnam vets, so some perpective is at least given from many sides of the issue.

[NeonPi]

http://www.toronto.com/feature/491

What is Simcoe Day?

Simcoe Day is in honour of the first Lieutenant-Governor of Upper Canada, John Graves Simcoe

(from the article) "John Graves Simcoe was more than just a colonial governor -- he abolished slavery, created Yonge Street, and even inspired the agricultural fair tradition that would give rise to the Royal Agricultural Winter Fair....

In 1869 Toronto City Council came up with the idea for a summer "day of recreation." In 1875, it was settled: the first Monday in August would be the official Civic Holiday.

That name stuck as other cities followed Toronto's leisure-loving example and proclaimed this a municipal (rather than provincial) holiday. But in 1968 Toronto City Council again took the lead and renamed the day to recognize one of Ontario's earliest historical figures. "

The Province of Ontario officially named it Simcoe Day in 1999.

Simcoe has an interesting story - the article has more details.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Yay for Simcoe Day (and it's not just because I have the day off :) )

I've traveled the entire length of Yonge Street. From #1 Yonge St. right at the lake all the way to Rainy River, Ontario.

[NeonPi]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
I've traveled the entire length of Yonge Street. From #1 Yonge St. right at the lake all the way to Rainy River, Ontario.

Cool!:cool:

[bcdphie]

Originally posted by NeonPi
Happy Simcoe Day tomorrow, for those in Ontario - or whatever your August Civic Holiday is called in your province (AB = Western Heritage Day)


BC is really creative with its name for the civic holiday - today is... BC Day :p.

I spent most of this long weekend hanging out at the lakes up at Whistler. It was 35 degrees plus up there this weekend (but had nothing on last weekend when it almost hit 40). I am back in town today (came down for a BC Day party last night), so I am just going to putter around town today, maybe do some touristy things.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by bcdphie
BC is really creative with its name for the civic holiday - today is... BC Day :p.

Hey calling it Simcoe Day is pretty much calling it Ontario Day... maybe BC should name it after an important historical figure from BC (sorry can't think of one ;))

[NeonPi]

Originally posted by RACooper
Hey calling it Simcoe Day is pretty much calling it Ontario Day... maybe BC should name it after an important historical figure from BC (sorry can't think of one ;))

That would Captain Vancouver, but I think the BC Interior and Victoria folks would be pissed at a holiday called 'Vancouver Day' :p

[Lady Pi Phi]

Bump.


How long is question period in Parliment?