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adduncan
01-12-2004, 06:25 PM
Is anyone planning on attending or paging Continental Congress this year?

Do we have any TSDARs in the house going to convention in March?

Adrienne
Tejas Page
:D

Peaches-n-Cream
01-12-2004, 09:50 PM
I'm wondering if there are any DARs on GC besides Adrienne.

Munchkin03
01-12-2004, 11:15 PM
I thought honeychile was one. Maybe I'm wrong.

I am definitely not a member of the DAR. I did, however, write a paper on them and the Colonial Dames for my Preservation Theory class.

absolutuscchick
01-12-2004, 11:37 PM
whats a DAR???
im confused!!

WCUgirl
01-12-2004, 11:38 PM
My guess would be Daughters of the American Revolution?

aggieAXO
01-12-2004, 11:41 PM
I also am assuming you are talking about the Daughters of American Revolution-my grandmother was involved with this and I thought about joining-how do I get involved?

WCUgirl
01-12-2004, 11:45 PM
www.dar.org

I can trace my ancestors to the American Revolution...it just so happens they weren't patriots though. :eek:

Unregistered-
01-12-2004, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by aggieAXO
I also am assuming you are talking about the Daughters of American Revolution-my grandmother was involved with this and I thought about joining-how do I get involved?

Hi aggieAXO, there was some information listed on the DAR Membership Page (http://www.dar.org/natsociety/content.cfm?id=92&hd=n&pf=n). Or, you can go to your nearest local chapter meeting and get assistance from the members there to go about tracing your lineage.

honeychile
01-13-2004, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by AXiD670
www.dar.org

I can trace my ancestors to the American Revolution...it just so happens they weren't patriots though. :eek:

Well, our ancestors had to fight somebody!! ;)

Yes, I'm a Daughter of the American Revolution, and a member of the United Daughters of the Confederacy and several other lineage societies that y'all probably never heard of.

If you have an ancestor who either served in the American Revolution, or gave Patriotic service to the American troops, and can prove your lineage, you are eligible for the DAR. If you don't know someone in your town personally, go to www.dar.org and let them know that you're in search of a chapter! If you're in Southwestern PA and don't ask me, I will take it personally and cry for days! ;)

My chapter office is Registrar; that means I help people fill out their applications, prove their lineage, and give workshops on genealogical lineages. I would be happy to help anyone on GreekChat with any genealogical questions/problems.

FYI, if you even suspect that you have an ancestor who may have served, I have the Patriot Index for those men & women who have already been proven Patriots in my hot little hands! Just let me know & I'll look 'em up!

AOTT Silver is also a member of the DAR; I don't know about anyone else here?

And no, I'm not going to the Convention in March. I have three workshops to manage, and would like to take the "new & improved" Lineage Workshop in DC in May. *cross fingers*

Peaches-n-Cream
01-13-2004, 12:30 AM
I wonder if I am descended from someone who fought in the American Revolutionary War. There is a Major General who shares the same name as my ancestors. I wonder how I could find out about my lineage.

honeychile
01-13-2004, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
I wonder if I am descended from someone who fought in the American Revolutionary War. There is a Major General who shares the same name as my ancestors. I wonder how I could find out about my lineage.

Let me know the name. If he's in the Patriot Index, then you can go to the www.dar.org website, and obtain Record Copies of the ladies who have claimed him as their ancestor. You may find a long lost aunt or grandmother! Then, you will need to prove how you connect to the aunt or grandmother or whomever through birth, death, census, tax, court, and/or marriage records.

My mama & I had to prove a new Patriot - someone that had served, but no one had used them to go DAR before. That was a bit harder! (she says, laughing semi-hysterically!)

CutiePie2000
01-13-2004, 01:04 AM
Yet another DAR related thread...
http://www.greekchat.net/gcforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9184

honeychile
01-13-2004, 08:03 AM
I just read that link, and I have to tell you, there certainly are some snobs in the DAR - just like there are snobs in various sororities, clubs, cotillions, and every other walk of life.

A year & a half ago, I had the opportunity to go to DC for the DAR genealogical lineage class. There were three of us under 50; from there, the average age in the class was probably 70.

After 3 days of intense study (trust me, I mean intense!), a few of us went out to dinner. The younger woman who was incredibly sweet and lovable turned out to be the descendent of Augustine Washington - George Washington's brother! She never once bragged or lorded it over anyone, and her wonderful attitude will impress me as long as I live!

AOIIsilver
01-13-2004, 10:23 AM
Hi, Honeychile! :) Alpha love to you!

Yep, I am, too, a member of the DAR---as is my mom. I am planning on paging at the Tennessee Congress in March.

My mother and I are members of a chapter in my family's hometown, and I also attend chapter meetings in the town where I now live. There are VAST differences between the two chapters...just like any other organization...but I love both groups.

Sometimes I wonder if the persona of "snooty" is equated with "older." Many DAR chapters have a number of older women; perhaps to an outsider, this gives the persona of snooty? I'll tell you right now, I am not snooty! :)

The DAR does wonderful work for a variety of causes. :)

I want to point out that you really need to find a local chapter. They have all of the official paperwork. If you have a family member who is already a member, usually the process is much easier because you can "link" onto their application.

let me know if I can be of help...

AOIISilver

Ginger
01-13-2004, 10:27 AM
I've always wondered about this... I've traced my lineage back pretty far (pre-revolution).... but there's one step in the mid-1800's that I can't conclusively prove. How solid does your proof of decendency need to be to apply? I mean, it's almost impossible for these two to not be father-son, but I can't find any conclusive evidence to prove so.

honeychile
01-13-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Ginger
I've always wondered about this... I've traced my lineage back pretty far (pre-revolution).... but there's one step in the mid-1800's that I can't conclusively prove. How solid does your proof of decendency need to be to apply? I mean, it's almost impossible for these two to not be father-son, but I can't find any conclusive evidence to prove so.

Ginger, the DAR is a little more genealogically liberal than the standards of say, the National Genealogical Society. Depending on what you DO have, we can probably work something out.

Have you tried census records (John Doe is the father, one of the sons is James Doe, correct age), tax records, court records (these are especially a godsend when the father died, he left either minor children [then you check to see who got guardianship] or a will), deeds, property transfers, cemetary records, etc etc.

Where we had troubles was proving my great-grandparents' marriage. The ONLY record we could find was by writing to the cemetary, where they had a notation that my g-grandfather paid $10 for the burial of his wife, Anastasia!

So, let's hear what you have! :)


ps - How I envy those whose ancestors kept a family Bible!!!!

adduncan
01-13-2004, 10:58 AM
Well, I was going to reply to a bunch of these, but honeychile did a great job of it. :D

Regarding evidence of ancestry: I was one of those souls who had to both prove a new patriot and had a hitch in one of the links. (Couldn't find a marriage certificate.)

"Proof" is based more on preponderance of evidence, rather than only certain straight-line documents. In the above example, I used a combination of census records, published birth records, and a death certificate to prove one person's parentage. We never did find a marriage certificate, but it didn't matter.

honeychile - you'd be proud of me, I was just elected my chapter's registrar (HEEEELLLLLLLLP!!!!!!! :p ) so I'm going to be cross-checking applications and supplementals, etc.

The links everyone gave are a good start for basic DAR membership information. I'm helping some family members get started on their paperwork. If anyone has questions beyond that, feel free to drop me a line. (If you're in Texas, I can probably give you more direction since I'm working w/ that state. Sorry, honeychile, I don't remember where you're from, so I don't want to step on toes if you're a Texan too.)

Re: "snooty". AOPiSilver, I think you're right about that being equated with "older". I know very few ladies who fall into the "snooty" category, and it does seem to be associated with age. Case in point: the Texas Fall Forum was held in the same hotel at the same time as the Capital City Gay Rodeo. A few older ladies were wound kind of tight about that, but the majority of the younger ladies were like, "Woo hoo! Party down!"

Anywho, cool to see some other pages out there. And add me to the list of ladies who will help out w/ membership.

Adrienne
:D

honeychile
01-13-2004, 11:12 AM
Congratulations on becoming Chapter Registrar, Adrienne!!! It is one of the more interesting & rewarding positions, but can also be frustrating. But since you also proved a new Patriot, you know all about the frustrating part!! If your chapter doesn't have a "Prospective Member Kit" yet, I'd be happy to send you one of ours - when I'm done tweaking it this weekend! And thank you for the nice things you said. :)

No, I'm not from Texas. My ancestoral lines blur between Virginia, Maryland, Delaware (that's a new one!), and Pennsylvania. My PA ancestors considered themselves Virginians until after "the unpleasantness"! And then, there's the one frustrating Massachusets line...!!!!

Question: I was told that you have to prove to 1630 for Colonial Dames by one lady. That seems unreal to me! Can anyone verify or deny that?

I have an ancestoral missing link that would take me there (actually, Mayflower), IF I could find the @#$%^&* proof for ONE lousy generation!!

adduncan
01-13-2004, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by honeychile
Congratulations on becoming Chapter Registrar, Adrienne!!! It is one of the more interesting & rewarding positions, but can also be frustrating. But since you also proved a new Patriot, you know all about the frustrating part!! If your chapter doesn't have a "Prospective Member Kit" yet, I'd be happy to send you one of ours - when I'm done tweaking it this weekend!

Question: I was told that you have to prove to 1630 for Colonial Dames by one lady. That seems unreal to me! Can anyone verify or deny that?

I have an ancestoral missing link that would take me there (actually, Mayflower), IF I could find the @#$%^&* proof for ONE lousy generation!!

Thanx much! We've got our Prospective Member Kit - it's on my desk looking at me right now, as I gear up for my installation in May.

One of our members is a Colonial Dame, I'll drop her a line and ask your question.

Also, PM or email me about the Mayflower connection. I may be able to help you there too.

--add
;)

AOIIsilver
01-13-2004, 03:38 PM
Congrats Add on the Chapter Registrar! Woohoo!

Are any of you in the War of 1812? I have had a bit of a time getting someone to contact me so that I could apply.
:)
Silver

honeychile
01-13-2004, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by AOIIsilver
Congrats Add on the Chapter Registrar! Woohoo!

Are any of you in the War of 1812? I have had a bit of a time getting someone to contact me so that I could apply.
:)
Silver

So far, no. Our Hunter line would be either too young or too old, and I'm in the process of working on the McKinney/McCullough line more fully.

And then there's that frustrating link in Boston, whether it will pan out or not. I have my gg-grandmother's parents' marriage license, but no proof of them existing prior to then (1811). They would be the Challis/Sargent line - which is proved until about 1750 or 1760. So, I just need that one two generation link to see if I've been handed down family stories or family tall tales! :)

I've always said that our family motto is "Never Leave a Paper Trail!" :D

Silver, Adrienne - are either of you members of the Cameo Club? We just found out about it, and it sounds nice! I'll be asking more pin questions in the future - I finally have the chapter bar to go with my pin & one I found on ebay! I need to get my ancestor bar, though, before I feel it's proper to wear. :)

adduncan
01-13-2004, 04:51 PM
Sorry, no War of 1812 here, as far as I've been able to gather.
Closest I've gotten is Amer. Civil War - another of my father's ancestors fought for New York. (I've been trying to find out when/where he was stationed and if he was in the contingent portrayed in "Gangs of New York.")

No Cameo Club here - yet. We found a supplemental ancestor on my mother's side, and we're going to work on her paperwork. It is a possibility tho. I noticed that the minute the ink was dry on my nat'l number, relatives lined up to do the "short" paperwork for their memberships. :D

And your family and mine, honeychile, have the same motto. At least in my mother's line. :p We can find them after wandering all over the Hudson Valley up to Albany, but prior to that, nada.

--add
:)

Ginger
01-13-2004, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by honeychile
Ginger, the DAR is a little more genealogically liberal than the standards of say, the National Genealogical Society. Depending on what you DO have, we can probably work something out. So, let's hear what you have! :)

I haven't worked on it for about 2 years, but I keep meaning to look back into it again. I'll try to look at it tonight and refresh my memory!

ps - How I envy those whose ancestors kept a family Bible!!!!

No kidding!!

adduncan
01-13-2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Ginger
I haven't worked on it for about 2 years, but I keep meaning to look back into it again. I'll try to look at it tonight and refresh my memory!


Good for you, Ginger!

It's OK if other priorities take the place of research for a while and you have to go back to it. A lot of people go through this, especially if they have difficult histories to explore.

I was invited to check out the DAR when I was 19. I was 34 when my lineage was approved and I can tell you, it was more than worth the wait and work.

--add
:D

AOIIsilver
01-13-2004, 06:47 PM
Hi, Honeychile...
????? What Cameo Club? The Mother/Daughter Cameo pin? Something else?
My pin buying has been on hold since Mr. Silver and I made a purchase that has us snowed under.....
:)
Silver

honeychile
01-13-2004, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by AOIIsilver
Hi, Honeychile...
????? What Cameo Club? The Mother/Daughter Cameo pin? Something else?
My pin buying has been on hold since Mr. Silver and I made a purchase that has us snowed under.....
:)
Silver

Yes, that's exactly what I meant! I naively asked for the pin for Christmas, not realizing it was a separate "Club". Now that we've heard about it, we'd like to see about it. I find it somewhat incredible that my mama & I have been members for this long (we both went in at the same time), and no one had ever breathed a word about it until Caldwell called our Regent!

AOIIsilver
01-13-2004, 07:13 PM
Honey, honey, honey....
find it somewhat incredible that my mama & I have been members for this long (we both went in at the same time), and no one had ever breathed a word about it until Caldwell called our Regent!
You just need a high quality insignia chair like we have ;). [AOIISilver flips her hair over her shoulder and looks important.]Honeychile, you are just so welcome to visit our chapter any time that you need a pin lesson! Just remember not to mix organizational pins at our meetings unless you want a severe reprimand!
Seriously, the mother/daughter cameo is simply a goregeous pin and not too expensive.
What kind of insignia do you have? Have you seen the all diamond insignia?:eek: It costs as much as TWO of my mortgage payments.:eek:

adduncan
01-13-2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by AOIIsilver
Have you seen the all diamond insignia?:eek: It costs as much as TWO of my mortgage payments.:eek:

When I first started picking out my insignia, Mr. A was looking over my shoulder. He took ONE look at the star/diamond insignia and said, "No." With a look that said without words, "Don't even THINK of trying to negotiate this one."

I have to order a few more pins so I can show 'em at state and national convention. Not that I'll measure up to the ladies who have 4 rows and wear them like armor!!

Adrienne
:D

GeekyPenguin
01-13-2004, 08:34 PM
I find this highly entertaining because DAR up here is veddy veddy snooty - and there's actually a good age range! The GP family will not ever be DAR members, but if there is a Daughters of the Irish Potato Famine, we are READY and willing to submit our paperwork. ;)

Peaches-n-Cream
01-13-2004, 08:41 PM
Hi honeychile, I am sure that his name is in the Patriots record. Here is my story:

I come from a long line of Sullivans from Newport, RI and New York. There is a Major General John Sullivan who fought in the Battle of Long Island and the Battle of Rhode Island. The name struck me since we have so many men in my family with the same name. Truthfully, I have no idea if there is any relation. My mother can trace our family tree to the mid 1800s in Newport, RI. A few years ago we went to Newport and checked their property records. My great great (great?) grandfather bought a house there in the 1850s or 1860s. That is as far back as I can go in my family tree. There were John Sullivans galore in those records. It is not an uncommon name so we probably aren't related to the Major General, but it would be cool if we are.

Anyway, I'm not pursuing membership in DAR. I actually never even thought about it until this thread. I am more interested in filling out my family tree. I am just not certain how to do this. It is entirely possible that my Sullivan ancestors came to the US from Ireland after 1847 due to the famine, but I haven't seen concrete evidence of this.

adduncan
01-13-2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
if there is a Daughters of the Irish Potato Famine, we are READY and willing to submit our paperwork. ;)

How about the Scotch-Irish Society of the USA?

http://www.rootsweb.com/~sisusa/

:D
Adrienne

honeychile
01-13-2004, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
Hi honeychile, I am sure that his name is in the Patriots record. Here is my story:

I come from a long line of Sullivans from Newport, RI and New York. There is a Major General John Sullivan who fought in the Battle of Long Island and the Battle of Rhode Island. The name struck me since we have so many men in my family with the same name. Truthfully, I have no idea if there is any relation. My mother can trace our family tree to the mid 1800s in Newport, RI. A few years ago we went to Newport and checked their property records. My great great (great?) grandfather bought a house there in the 1850s or 1860s. That is as far back as I can go in my family tree. There were John Sullivans galore in those records. It is not an uncommon name so we probably aren't related to the Major General, but it would be cool if we are.

Anyway, I'm not pursuing membership in DAR. I actually never even thought about it until this thread. I am more interested in filling out my family tree. I am just not certain how to do this. It is entirely possible that my Sullivan ancestors came to the US from Ireland after 1847 due to the famine, but I haven't seen concrete evidence of this.

*BIG GRIN*
That's how we started, too - just proving the family stories, filling out the family tree! I can distinctly remember a time when my mama & I made the conscious decision to abandon all hopes of any lineage society and search for the truth. Well, the truth led down the road to the DAR, UDC, etc! Many people think that the DAR is all about snootiness, and don't realize that the DAR has supported schools for the Native Americans and several other charities LONG before it was in vogue! The ladies of the DAR are there when new citizens are sworn in, and to help with veterans hospitals. We're more hands on than most people realize.
[/soapbox]

Okay, I have the newest Patriot Index open in my lap. There are 2 John Sullivans - the first born in VA, died in SC and the second born in MA and died in NH. That doesn't mean that there ISN'T a Major General; it just means that his lineage hasn't been pursued by someone in the DAR. Both Adrienne & I had to prove a New Patriot; it's a bit more work, but worthwhile. Working on a new lineage means a chance to see more clearly exactly what they did; in my case, I actually held the Fort Day Book and saw where my ancestor signed for his pay. A lot of people don't get that rush!

But let's back up to Newport in the mid-1800's: my one ancestor, Catharine McCann married Peter Carlin on September 27, 1857, with Ann and Andrew McCourt as witnesses at St. Mary's (incidentally, where JFK got married), but supposed she was a Baptist. It's her parents, Michael McCann & Caroline Challis, that have us hung up. Any help from your research? :)


ETA: I have ancestors on both sides of the Civil War - and they fought in the same battles! Talk about your inlaw troubles! Anyhow, we did join the United Daughters of the Confederacy (which is a whole story unto itself, as we didn't want to be involved with any racism), and have a sponsor lined up for the GAR/Union Ladies. Both are in DC, though. We used to get there about once a month, but not as much since my daddy died. We were to go this weekend, but it looks as if it's off. :(

honeychile
01-13-2004, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by AOIIsilver
Honey, honey, honey....

You just need a high quality insignia chair like we have ;). [AOIISilver flips her hair over her shoulder and looks important.]Honeychile, you are just so welcome to visit our chapter any time that you need a pin lesson! Just remember not to mix organizational pins at our meetings unless you want a severe reprimand!
Seriously, the mother/daughter cameo is simply a goregeous pin and not too expensive.
What kind of insignia do you have? Have you seen the all diamond insignia?:eek: It costs as much as TWO of my mortgage payments.:eek:

YES!!! YES!!! We really DO need an Insignia Chairman!!!

I have asked and asked for a proper etiquette on what to wear when, and the best I get is, "Ask the State Insignia Chairman," or "Here's what to do when your pins get heavy." I would gladly purchase a diagram, because I really don't want to do it wrong!

Thus far, I have my pin (non-diamond encrusted, but we did spring for the 14k instead of gold filled), my chapter bar, and the Victory at Yorktown pin. I'd like to get my Patriot bar before "unveiling" my pin. Obviously, I need to make a little trip to Tennessee and see how it's really done! ;)

Do you have the Cameo, Silver?

Taualumna
01-13-2004, 09:25 PM
Yes, but many people'll continue to believe that the DAR is "snooty" because it is a "linage" association. Because of this, the DAR will unlikely be as "diverse" as other women's organizations who may have been perceived as "snooty" in the past (or still are seen as "snooty"..I can't tel). However, this is a POV from an outsider.

adduncan
01-13-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by Taualumna
Yes, but many people'll continue to believe that the DAR is "snooty" because it is a "linage" association. Because of this, the DAR will unlikely be as "diverse" as other women's organizations who may have been perceived as "snooty" in the past (or still are seen as "snooty"..I can't tel). However, this is a POV from an outsider.

NP re: POV.

But any time you have an organization with a selection process, private activities, effort required to meet the standards, and a situation where not everyone is permitted to join, someone is going to think it is "snooty". Keep in mind GLOs have the same accusations thrown at them. Sometimes the subjective selection criteria helps that perception along.

I say, live and let live. Whatever. People are going to organize themselves in whatever way they are comfortable. GLOs and lineage/heritage societies are part of that.

--add
:)

Taualumna
01-13-2004, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by adduncan
NP re: POV.

But any time you have an organization with a selection process, private activities, effort required to meet the standards, and a situation where not everyone is permitted to join, someone is going to think it is "snooty". Keep in mind GLOs have the same accusations thrown at them. Sometimes the subjective selection criteria helps that perception along.

I say, live and let live. Whatever. People are going to organize themselves in whatever way they are comfortable. GLOs and lineage/heritage societies are part of that.

--add
:)

OK, but what about this. Say your family has had a long history of DAR membership. You marry, but you find out that you and your husband can't have kids, so you adopt. You don't know the little girl's family history, so she can't be a member. End of linage in your family (or at least your branch), unless she marries a guy who can trace his family back.

adduncan
01-13-2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Taualumna
OK, but what about this. Say your family has had a long history of DAR membership. You marry, but you find out that you and your husband can't have kids, so you adopt. You don't know the little girl's family history, so she can't be a member. End of linage in your family (or at least your branch), unless she marries a guy who can trace his family back.

Re: DAR/lineage societies. Very good question, and one I am working with right now because adoption is an option my husband and I are considering at this moment.

To be totally honest, I do not have an answer--at least for myself. When I have one, I'll post it. As you can imagine, adoption is a very personal process, so the answers you get from different people will all vary and I won't try to speak for anyone else.

Re: family histories in general. I just PMed a part of this to someone else so I'll repost the bulk of it.

Family history is not *only* about direct lineage. Family history is also about your racial/ethnic heritage. Most importantly (IMHO) it is about how you find your place in the world via your parents, siblings, or other relatives, including adoptive ones. The story of how and why a person is adopted can be a more inspirational story than some family lineages. It can also be a powerful footprint in history itself. Since the advent of international and interracial adoptions, a family history of an adopted child can be a living representation of socio-political changes in their lifetime, and they can be a personal witness to it. That's every bit as powerful as a person's claim of descent from......(inset historical figure here.) In lineage societies, we remember history through ancestors. But adoptive families MAKE that history, here and now.

My matron-of-honor (straight German descent) just adopted two boys (ages 3 and 5) of Brazillian descent. No big deal for her - she has two Korean brothers and sisters. I learned the above from their continuing example.

So, that's my short story made long and MHO on the topic.

Adrienne
:D

sugar and spice
01-13-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I find this highly entertaining because DAR up here is veddy veddy snooty - and there's actually a good age range! The GP family will not ever be DAR members, but if there is a Daughters of the Irish Potato Famine, we are READY and willing to submit our paperwork. ;)

Count me in, we'll start a chapter. ;)

honeychile
01-13-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Taualumna
OK, but what about this. Say your family has had a long history of DAR membership. You marry, but you find out that you and your husband can't have kids, so you adopt. You don't know the little girl's family history, so she can't be a member. End of linage in your family (or at least your branch), unless she marries a guy who can trace his family back.

This has happened in my chapter, several times. We have always welcomed guests, with the exception of the annual business meeting.

Same thing happens if you only have sons. It's a chance you take.

Taualumna
01-13-2004, 10:06 PM
OK, how about this one: DAR family has two daughters. One is biological, the other one isn't. Wouldn't the adopted one always feel really left out at meetings because she is only a guest? Also, I've seen a DAR commercial on TV, and I've always thought it was weird to see the Asian kid, since there probably weren't any Asians in the US at the time. Oh well, the adopted girl always has the Junior League

adduncan
01-13-2004, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Taualumna
OK, how about this one: DAR family has two daughters. One is biological, the other one isn't. Wouldn't the adopted one always feel really left out at meetings because she is only a guest? Also, I've seen a DAR commercial on TV, and I've always thought it was weird to see the Asian kid, since there probably weren't any Asians in the US at the time. Oh well, the adopted girl always has the Junior League

Ummmmmm - who were you directing this to?
I think I pretty much summed up my feelings on the adoption topic above.

If you meant this for honeychile, I'll butt out.

--add
:)

Taualumna
01-13-2004, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by adduncan
Ummmmmm - who were you directing this to?
I think I pretty much summed up my feelings on the adoption topic above.

If you meant this for honeychile, I'll butt out.

--add
:)

It was mostly meant for honeychile....I forgot to quote...sorry...:p

honeychile
01-13-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by Taualumna
OK, how about this one: DAR family has two daughters. One is biological, the other one isn't. Wouldn't the adopted one always feel really left out at meetings because she is only a guest? Also, I've seen a DAR commercial on TV, and I've always thought it was weird to see the Asian kid, since there probably weren't any Asians in the US at the time. Oh well, the adopted girl always has the Junior League

LOL!!!! We have three - count 'em, three! - "Asian kids" who will be full members of our chapter when they reach 18!! Their father has the DAR lineage, and their mother just enjoys coming to the meetings.

Seriously, imagine a tea party, or a ladies' luncheon. Nice clothes, nice food, nice ladies event. Some wear pins or other insignia, but not all of them. Some are members, and some are not. Now, I'm only speaking for the chapters which I have visited, but I have NEVER, EVER felt as if I didn't belong simply because I wasn't a member. And I was going to meetings long before I was able to prove my lineage.

See, the vast majority of the DAR ladies that I've met are terribly nice. Everyone goes out of her way to make everyone feel welcome. So, would an adopted daughter feel left out? I would think that would be how the mother approached the topic - just like any other adoption-related topic.

honeychile
01-13-2004, 10:40 PM
Silver, your PM box is full - and THANK YOU for your kind offer! :)

Peaches-n-Cream
01-13-2004, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by honeychile
*BIG GRIN*
That's how we started, too - just proving the family stories, filling out the family tree! I can distinctly remember a time when my mama & I made the conscious decision to abandon all hopes of any lineage society and search for the truth. Well, the truth led down the road to the DAR, UDC, etc! Many people think that the DAR is all about snootiness, and don't realize that the DAR has supported schools for the Native Americans and several other charities LONG before it was in vogue! The ladies of the DAR are there when new citizens are sworn in, and to help with veterans hospitals. We're more hands on than most people realize.
[/soapbox]

Okay, I have the newest Patriot Index open in my lap. There are 2 John Sullivans - the first born in VA, died in SC and the second born in MA and died in NH. That doesn't mean that there ISN'T a Major General; it just means that his lineage hasn't been pursued by someone in the DAR. Both Adrienne & I had to prove a New Patriot; it's a bit more work, but worthwhile. Working on a new lineage means a chance to see more clearly exactly what they did; in my case, I actually held the Fort Day Book and saw where my ancestor signed for his pay. A lot of people don't get that rush!

But let's back up to Newport in the mid-1800's: my one ancestor, Catharine McCann married Peter Carlin on September 27, 1857, with Ann and Andrew McCourt as witnesses at St. Mary's (incidentally, where JFK got married), but supposed she was a Baptist. It's her parents, Michael McCann & Caroline Challis, that have us hung up. Any help from your research? :)

honeychile, I think it might be the second J.S. from MA and NH. He was the Major General according to any research I have done. I just googled him and came up with this (http://www.americanrevwar.homestead.com/files/SULLIVAN.HTM) and this (http://www.seacoastnh.com/framers/sullivan.html) and this (http://www.seacoastsearch.com/nhlinks/people/johnsullivan/index.html).

It's a small world regarding St. Mary's Church. My great-grandparents and great great grandparents were married there. My great-grandfather's brother was a priest, Rev. John F. Sullivan, in the area who wrote a few books about the Catholic Church. This is the problem. They all have the same name. :) Of course, they are all gone now and have been for many years. It was exciting finding and reading the actual documents that my great great (great?) grandfather signed when he purchased his house in the 1850s or 1860s for the enormous sum of $750. Imagine buying a house for $750. :)

Does anyone have any suggestions about how to go back further in my family tree? I have no idea how to do it. My mother is the oldest living person in that branch, and I have all the information that she has. Thanks in advance. :)

AOIIsilver
01-13-2004, 10:46 PM
DAR family has two daughters. One is biological, the other one isn't. Wouldn't the adopted one always feel really left out at meetings because she is only a guest?
I am also thinking about adopting, and, to me, this argument is truly moot. I seriously doubt that any of us have our personas so tied up in the DAR that we would make one of our children feel uncomfortable (or make someone else's child feel uncomfortable for that matter). I daresay that most women in the DAR are family historians and are part of the group as a component of their larger involvement with geneaology or US history. Again, I REGULARLY attend meetings for a chapter of which I am NOT a member. I have always felt right at home at the groups that I visited as well. I argee with Honeychile...it is much like a business meeting/tea party/women's informational group. Most of our women wear pins [Must be the high quality Insignia Chair;)].
Besides, it is the same argument for AOII...even though my future child [Silver wishes strongly for a healthy daughter in the next two years ;)] would be a double legacy and a courtsey for AOII, if she goes to a different group or I have a son, then they could not share AOII with me. It is just not a big deal. Give it a try. I will bet that you might like it!

Now, back to our regularly scheduled debate on pins....

No, Honeychile I do not yet have the Cameo. This year, I think. As for the actual order on the ribbon, the DAR member's site has a booklet (cost 2 or 3 dollars) that can be ordered. Let me know if you need me to PM the web address. I just cleaned out my PM box. Please try again...so sorry...

Add, my mom is one of those ladies with a TRIPLE ribbon. Mom and I now have 3 matching DAR outfits for the various seasons for meetings. So much fun. My favorite pin of mom's is her 25th anniversary pin of the DAR from the 19teens! It is really super nice.

Peaches-N-Cream, sounds like you need to have a trip to your state or national archives. In case you did not know, the National Archives rocks! Census records should be the next step. Using your Great-great-grandfather's name, you can find children and sometimes "place of birth." This can then be the link to go back even further using the family surname.
Kudos to other family historians...Just remember, family historians never die, they just lose their census! :D

AOIISilver
ETA: Info for Peaches-N_Cream who posted while I was typing...yes, I am slow and old! :)

honeychile
01-13-2004, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
honeychile, I think it might be the second J.S. from MA and NH. He was the Major General according to any research I have done. I just googled him and came up with this (http://www.americanrevwar.homestead.com/files/SULLIVAN.HTM) and this (http://www.seacoastnh.com/framers/sullivan.html) and this (http://www.seacoastsearch.com/nhlinks/people/johnsullivan/index.html).

It's a small world regarding St. Mary's Church. My great-grandparents and great great grandparents were married there. My great-grandfather's brother was a priest, Rev. John F. Sullivan, in the area who wrote a few books about the Catholic Church. This is the problem. They all have the same name. :) Of course, they are all gone now and have been for many years. It was exciting finding and reading the actual documents that my great great (great?) grandfather signed when he purchased his house in the 1850s or 1860s for the enormous sum of $750. Imagine buying a house for $750. :)

Does anyone have any suggestions about how to go back further in my family tree? I have no idea how to do it. My mother is the oldest living person in that branch, and I have all the information that she has. Thanks in advance. :)

I haven't googled your links yet, but will when I'm done with this. Have you tried census records, church records, tax records, court records? Sounds like you have the deeds under control - now, you just take a step back & see where he was living prior to buying that $750 house! ;) Will books are especially rich, and the New England Genealogical Society has a TON of records!

I hear you about the same name - there has been a John & a William in literally every generation of my family thus far! It become sheer torture when we found a completely parallel family in the same area - two each of John McCulloughs who married Elizabeths, with a brother William for three generations! We pretty much had to do both family trees to keep them straight as to who belonged to whom!!

Taualumna
01-13-2004, 10:56 PM
Honeychile: I'm assuming that the Asian kids who'll be full members at 18 are mixed? That's a little different from being an adopted child from China.

AOIISilver: Being a member of a sorority is kind of different than a linage society like DAR because an adoptee can choose to or not to become a member of the sorority. Unless DAR changes its rules to include adoptees, she cannot be a member of DAR even if she wants to.

AchtungBaby80
01-13-2004, 11:01 PM
I'm thinking about joining the DAR. We have a local chapter. My mom's side of the family are descendants of Christopher Gist, but I don't think he counts. If not, I have a cousin on my dad's side who's in the DAR, I believe, so I can always go that route.

Since there's an organization for descendants of Confederate veterans, does anyone know if there's one for the other side?

DolphinChicaDDD
01-13-2004, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by sugar and spice
Count me in, we'll start a chapter. ;)

I'll be your third!!! How many more do we need for our national charter?

I probably could trace my maternal grandmother's side back to the Amer Rev. There is a rumor floating around the family was on the like 5th boat after the Mayflower or something insanely early like that. My grandfather is working on her lineage right now, since she is the missing link (my other grandparents are all 100% something). Too bad he is still lurking in the 1800's. The family is now in Missouri. He hasn't even traced them back to the East Coast yet.
I know the surname would be Ward. And I entered that into the database, via the DAR website, and I have a BUNCHA hits. I don't know what to do next.

I never even thought about the DAR before this post....hmmm...another thing to persue on my free time... :cool:

AOIIsilver
01-13-2004, 11:07 PM
Now, back to the regularly scheduled discussion....Yes, there is a group for women descendants of the Federal Army in the Civil War....several, in fact. Check out
http://www.duvcw.org/ and Listing of the Associated groups (http://www.loc.gov/rr/main/gar/garhome.html)

Silver

ETA: Edited because I do not wish to be anything but helpful to others in my life. :) Life is too short....

Taualumna
01-13-2004, 11:16 PM
To answer your question: Before joining the Junior League, I toyed with the idea of joining the IODE (Imperial Order Daughters of the Empire). It was never really a consideration as I didn't know anyone who was in it. Anyway, I mentioned this to a relative in the US, and she asked me why I could join IODE, despite having no British roots, but she couldn't join the DAR. The only requirement for the IODE is that you're female, according to their website (http://www.iode.ca/join.html), despite having the term "Daughter" in their name.

honeychile
01-13-2004, 11:17 PM
Post-Googles on John Sullivan: colorful character, wasn't he?! And kind of cute, too!

If you think this is your Patriot, go to www.dar.org, and double click on Genealogy. Then, on the right hand side, you'll see Patriot Lookup - double click. Fill out the form, asking if you could obtain any Record Copies on him, should they have them (they will). If you check the box that you're interested in membership, they will be in touch with you concerning local chapters - and vice versa.

The Record Copy is a complete DAR application for the Patriot you name. For all you know, that problem generation of yours may already be solved! If not, it will give you the sources that the original applicant gave, which will help you with your search. Record Copies are one of the very best sources, as none of the information on them will be questioned!

Feel free to ask me any more questions - and let me know how your search is going! I can only hope that you'll enjoy DAR as much as Adrienne, Silver, and I all do!!

honeychile
01-13-2004, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Dionysus
The DAR doesn't like black people. End of discussion.

You'd have to prove that to me. And if you're going to use that tired old saw about the one time Marion Anderson didn't sing at Constitution Hall, please be fair enough to realize the year it happened, AND that she felt fine about being invited back to perform several other times! Get over it - she did.

And I'm with Silver. This was to be about helping people, not a defense of an organization. For heaven's sake, how strange is it that members of a GLO would find rules for membership odd?

My mama is using the G-Q volume of the Patriot Index, or I'd look up Christopher Gist, Achtungbaby. He's not listed in earlier volumes, though.

FIVE pages of Wards! Yikes!! Have you any clue as to which state(s), DolphinChica?

AOIIsilver
01-13-2004, 11:36 PM
Taualumna, thanks for the info..that explains the questioning about being a "daughter."
Does your US relative know for SURE that she cannot join the DAR? Unless EVERY branch of her family came to the US after the Revolutionary War, chances are that she does have a relation that qualifies. It just takes WORK to find the connections. See that is the whole thing...for those of us who LOVE family history, it is the challenge to find the dusty record, to find the family Bible, to find a way to prove that illiterate family members existed when they signed with an X.
I really enjoy my DAR experience. We do a lot of good for people in a wide-variety of projects, both locally and nationally.
:)
Silver

Taualumna
01-13-2004, 11:40 PM
AOIIsilver,

My cousin's from Hong Kong, and we have no known non-Chinese blood relatives.

AchtungBaby80
01-13-2004, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by honeychile
My mama is using the G-Q volume of the Patriot Index, or I'd look up Christopher Gist, Achtungbaby. He's not listed in earlier volumes, though.

Probably not--he was Washington's guide, but I doubt he was a soldier or anything. I like the idea of the Daughters of Union Veterans of the Civil War, though...my mom's excited, too. I think we'll check into that. Thanks, AOIIsilver! :)

AOIIsilver
01-13-2004, 11:47 PM
Taualumna, now I see....still your relative might like being involved. Until I got my papers in, I, too, attended just for the fun of it. I just met a lady and asked if I could be her guest. You can learn LOTS about US History.
PS-Thanks for the PM. That is awesome. :)

OH...AchtungBaby80, you don't have to have been a soldier to join DAR. Other kinds of service counts, too! Washington's guide. Wow! Make sure to check out the other two groups listed on the Associated GAR groups as well. :)

Happiness,
Silver

adduncan
01-13-2004, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by AchtungBaby80
Probably not--he was Washington's guide, but I doubt he was a soldier or anything. I like the idea of the Daughters of Union Veterans of the Civil War, though...my mom's excited, too. I think we'll check into that. Thanks, AOIIsilver! :)

AchtungBaby -
I just looked up that person's name on the online Patriot Index. He's not listed, but that may only mean that none of his descendants applied for DAR membership.

Patriots served in all kinds of capacities, not just military. There were munitions suppliers, farmers, even ministers in the PI.

Just some info to think on.

Adrienne
:)

ETA - I posted this before I saw Silver's response.

honeychile
01-13-2004, 11:52 PM
I wanted to check a link prior to posting it. There is a complete passenger list of everyone who was on the first three boats to Plymouth (http://www.members.aol.com/calebj/passenger.html), the Mayflower, the Fortune, and the Anne at the link I just gave.

A very high percentage - if not all - of the genealogies for each of these passengers is available, up to about 1730 (?) or 8 generations. I guess they figure that you're on your own after that!

This may sound crazy, but I have very fond memories of our first mixer with Delta Tau Delta. It was the first we had for years prior to my joining Alpha Delta Pi. Anyhow, I started talking to one Delt, whose girlfriend I knew, and it turned out that we were both interested in genealogy. In fact, he is a direct descendant of Edward Winslow (Mayflower). While everyone else was dancing and generally doing the mixer thing, Win & I were getting comparing genealogical notes! Do I have to tell you that both of us took a lot of teasing afterwards? :)

adduncan
01-13-2004, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by honeychile
While everyone else was dancing and generally doing the mixer thing, Win & I were getting comparing genealogical notes! Do I have to tell you that both of us took a lot of teasing afterwards? :)

Nope. I get the same thing - I get talking on genealogy and history and the rest of the world stops existing. Then I hear about it afterwards. :p

--add
(Wm. Brewster descendant, BTW)
:D

AOIIsilver
01-13-2004, 11:55 PM
At work, frequently when someone is introduced as a new faculty member, etc, my fellow teachers comment, "I'll bet that Silver is his/her cousin."
Good grief :rolleyes:
Silver

aggieAXO
01-13-2004, 11:57 PM
ok I feel stupid-where do I look up names? I think Adrienne is going to look for me but now I am being impatient :)

AOIIsilver
01-13-2004, 11:59 PM
What kind of names? Patriots or persons in generations after the Revolutionary war?
Silver

adduncan
01-13-2004, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by aggieAXO
ok I feel stupid-where do I look up names? I think Adrienne is going to look for me but now I am being impatient :)

The DAR Patriot Index is online for society members. This is a listing of American patriot ancestors whose descendants have joined the DAR.

The membership listing is not online (that I can find.....) so that sort of inquiry might take a phone call to the Registrar General.

PM me - I'm going to be awake for a little while and I can check a few things.

--add
:D

breathesgelatin
01-14-2004, 04:04 AM
I could join Daughters of the Confederacy, but given my experiences with that organization in my small rural southern hometown, I can't say that I desire to!:eek: I'm not sure if I'm eligible for DAR or not--but my guess is yes.

honeychile
01-14-2004, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by breathesgelatin
I could join Daughters of the Confederacy, but given my experiences with that organization in my small rural southern hometown, I can't say that I desire to!:eek:

That's so sad! The only ladies who I'm not wild about in my chapter are the "wannabees" - older women without the papers, but still keep coming to meetings. The one is a real pill. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure if I'm eligible for DAR or not--but my guess is yes.

If you ever decide to take the plunge, just hollar!

DGMarie
01-15-2004, 12:20 AM
My MIL qualifies for DAR but she never joined bec all the ladies were "100 years old." Her surname is Hawbaker (or may be spelled Hawbecker).

honeychile
01-15-2004, 12:25 AM
*frustrations*

My mama borrowed the one volume of the Patriot Index - G-Q. My family names mostly begin with G, H. K, or M - except for two rouge C's!

I'll try to get it back from her by the weekend!

Ginger
01-16-2004, 01:12 PM
Hey, could one of you ladies look up some names for me in the Patriot Index? I went back through my files tonight and found the three direct ancestors who would have been alive at the time.

The names are in the "W"s.

Let me know and I'll PM you... thanks in advance!!

-----
out of curiousity, do the relatives have to be direct ancestors? Like I said, I have three names... but each of those people had about 11ty billion kids, so someone's got to be in there ;)

honeychile
01-16-2004, 07:05 PM
I have my book with the W's right here - PM away! :)

A direct ancestor is Patriot to child to child to child to child to you (with more or less generations).

A collatertal ancestor would be Patriot to niece/nephew to child to niece/nephew to child to child to you (with various mixes). The DAR doesn't accept collateral descendants, but if you've found that an Uncle John served, go back a generation, see if his father/mother gave service (remember, "gave patriotic service"), then come down on a direct lineage. One lineage society that does accept collateral ancestors is the UDC; I'm not sure of others.

Ginger
01-17-2004, 02:24 AM
Thanks! Adrienne looked up my relatives for me, and I am a direct decendant for a Private from North Carolina! (Born on the 4th of July, no less!) Now I just need to rustle up my documentation, and away I go. :D

Three cheers for adduncan!!!

aopirose
01-17-2004, 02:38 AM
For people interested in lineage societies, I found this handy link a few months ago. The Hereditary Society Community of the United States of America - http://www.hereditary.us It lists a large number of societies from the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company of Massachusetts (1637) to the Order of Descendants of Pirates and Privateers (2003). There is a section for the “Accepted Customs and Practices for Dress and Insignia.” In the Ladies section, particular attention is paid to DAR. http://www.hereditary.us/ladies.htm

I also found a lineage society for the descendants of slaves. Information on the International Society of Sons and Daughters of Slave Ancestry can be found at http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilissdsa/#info.

To echo what others have said, it is so important to know your history. If you are not interested for yourself then think of your children. Write down your stories, record older relatives, take lots of pictures, and document them! Take time to share what you have learned. That is a daunting task so just start with your immediate family.

From a personal standpoint, I lost 11 family members in a 3-year period. This included my mother, grandparents, great-aunts, and great-uncles. Going through boxes of personal items is hard enough but when it comes to photographs, I cry. I have no idea who many of these people are and there is no one left to identify them. I have never seen a good picture of my mother’s mother. She was one of those that turned her head when a camera came near.

AOIIsilver
01-17-2004, 12:35 PM
AOPiRose,
This was the best worded post ever. :)
Silver

DolphinChicaDDD
01-17-2004, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by honeychile
FIVE pages of Wards! Yikes!! Have you any clue as to which state(s), DolphinChica?

Tell me about it!!! Now, the majority of the Ward family is in Missouri (pronounced Mizzoura...I love my grandmother) and Illinois. But at the time of the Rev War, I have no idea. My mom thinks they were in one of the Carolinas, and the after the Lewis and Clark Expedition, they went to MO, and was there since.

And now grandpa has decided to take a break from the geneology thing, and take a 2 month extended vacation to Fl... which can only mean two things: I must wait at least another 2 months to see whats going on with my family (unless I pick up where he left off....hmmm....) and BRING ON THE SNOW TO NJ!!!

aopirose
01-18-2004, 12:59 AM
Thanks, Silver.

CutiePie2000
02-11-2004, 11:17 PM
I saw this medal (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=403&item=3658825835) on Ebay and thought it was quite interesting & beautiful...it's a "Daughters of the American Colonists" medal.
I quite like the acorn motif at the top.


There seems to be a number of organizations that are called "Daughters of something". :)

adduncan
02-11-2004, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by CutiePie2000
I saw this medal (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=403&item=3658825835) on Ebay and thought it was quite interesting & beautiful...it's a "Daughters of the American Colonists" medal.
I quite like the acorn motif at the top.


There seems to be a number of organizations that are called "Daughters of something". :)

I've seen this before too. The DAC are ladies descended from American settlers who arrived prior to about 1700 (don't quote me just yet on that..... need to cross-check that fact.)

Bummer that their insignia was on Ebay. DAR, DAC, etc, etc all have the same rules about their insignia that GLOs do: Thou Shalt Not Let Thy Insignia Go to a Pawn Shop or on Ebay. Upon Thy Demise, Thy Insignia and Thy Service Pins Shalt Be Returned to National. ;)

AOIIsilver
02-13-2004, 06:40 PM
Thy pins shall go to national or to the family member who is given them....BUT, even a daughter may not wear a pin to which she is not entitled! This gets especially sticky with financial donation pins....Who is going to be the lucky one who gets to tell the 90 year-old-woman that she can't wear her mother's President's project pin? Do you think THIS Insignia Chair is going to do that? NOPE! I do not ever wish to be bludgeoned by a large black patton handbag! Those things hurt when they hit you in the head!:p
:)LOL
Silver

honeychile
02-13-2004, 10:50 PM
Do y'all just love those letters that come with the address labels & memo pads that say, "If you donate x amount, you will be eligible to buy the President's Project pin..."? I am officially eligible. I am also officially too broke to buy the darn thing!

honeychile
02-13-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by CutiePie2000



There seems to be a number of organizations that are called "Daughters of something". :)

I think it was Florence King who said that her grandmother belonged to every organization that involved being a Daughter of Something!

DolphinChicaDDD
06-23-2004, 09:41 PM
*bump*

Cause we finally made it back to the 1700's with my family tree!!:D

Only problem is I have no physical evidence whatsoever that they actually fought in the Rev War- just stories. Is there anyway I can search the database of names myself, so that I don't send some ladies in DC on a wild goose chase, and I have about 4 names.

Should I just contact my local chapter?

Oh great and knowledge DAR GCers, help me out!:)

AOIIsilver
06-23-2004, 10:41 PM
Wow! Good job! Honeychile has Patriot books. (Mine are at my momma's house!) She can tell you if someone has gone in already under one of the names. This is the easiest path. :)
let me know how it works out!
:)
Roses,
Silver

honeychile
06-23-2004, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by DolphinChicaDDD
*bump*

Cause we finally made it back to the 1700's with my family tree!!:D

Only problem is I have no physical evidence whatsoever that they actually fought in the Rev War- just stories. Is there anyway I can search the database of names myself, so that I don't send some ladies in DC on a wild goose chase, and I have about 4 names.

Should I just contact my local chapter?

Oh great and knowledge DAR GCers, help me out!:)

Woo Hoo!!

If you have names of likely "suspects" who may have fought in the Revolution (on the American side, of course!), feel free to PM them to me! I am staring at the Patriot Index Books as I type this! :)

Another help is to go to www.dar.org, click on Genealogy, then Forms, and print out the Worksheets. IGNORE what it says about not submitting that form - the Chapter Registrar for whichever chapter you decide to join will NEED that Worksheet!!

If you have any questions, please ask!

adduncan
06-24-2004, 12:29 AM
Way to go, Dolphin!

Also keep in mind that while the DAR Patriot Index is a pretty broad collection of American patriots, it is not exhaustive. It is possible to prove an ancestor's service, even if they're not in the PI.

For example, if you know what state your ancestor lived in, you may be able to look up the pension roles from the military, or other comprehensive documents. Ancestry.com, for example, is *really* good about collecting this info. If you know the town they lived in, the local historical society might help as well.

Good luck!

(As I dust off my white gowns for page duty - only a week and a half to go!)

--add

adduncan
07-13-2004, 12:25 PM
honeychile and AOIISilver--

Wish you could have been in DC last week - great Congress!!!

:D

--add

honeychile
07-14-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by adduncan
Way to go, Dolphin!

Also keep in mind that while the DAR Patriot Index is a pretty broad collection of American patriots, it is not exhaustive. It is possible to prove an ancestor's service, even if they're not in the PI.

For example, if you know what state your ancestor lived in, you may be able to look up the pension roles from the military, or other comprehensive documents. Ancestry.com, for example, is *really* good about collecting this info. If you know the town they lived in, the local historical society might help as well.

Good luck!

(As I dust off my white gowns for page duty - only a week and a half to go!)

--add

Sorry I didn't see this before - I proved one of my own ancestors as a new patriot. It IS a bit more work, but it's also very rewarding!

Adrienne, I wish I could have been there! I've heard some great things about it!

AOIIsilver
07-19-2004, 07:24 PM
honeychile and AOIISilver--Wish you could have been in DC last week - great Congress!!!

Add, did you page? I am so jealous! SilverMom and I wanted to go to Congress, but family matters have kept us grounded for a while.

Did you buy anything neat?

Roses!
Silver

adduncan
07-19-2004, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by AOIIsilver
Add, did you page? I am so jealous! SilverMom and I wanted to go to Congress, but family matters have kept us grounded for a while.

Did you buy anything neat?

Roses!
Silver

I sure did! Page, that is. New congressional office from the PR committee, along w/ the usual processionals. (NO way am I handling a flag tho.) New administration voted in this year. Also got to meet some wonderful ladies from the GA society, so there's a foothold in the new home.

As far as buying anything - the pins I was eligible for set me back a ways. (Not telling Mr A how much....) But I graduated to a double ribbon.

When you're working your tail off, you can't help but grumble a little. But as soon as you're off to the airport (or in the bar at the end of the day..) you think, "Damn, that was fun!"

Silver, honeychile.......next year?
:D

--add

AOIIsilver
07-19-2004, 11:12 PM
I am SO jealous. That rocks! Did you go to any of the teas? What was your favorite part?

Silver, honeychile.......next year?
I sure hope so....depends on my family...

FYI; I am a state flag page!!! It is NOT easy!


:)
Silver

honeychile
02-20-2005, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by DGMarie
My MIL qualifies for DAR but she never joined bec all the ladies were "100 years old." Her surname is Hawbaker (or may be spelled Hawbecker).

I've found three Habecker/Hawbeckers for your MIL! You have to remember that spelling only became standardized in the last 200 years.

All three are from PA; Christian, John, and Joseph. If you'd like further details, PM me!

honeychile
02-20-2005, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by AchtungBaby80
Probably not--he was Washington's guide, but I doubt he was a soldier or anything. I like the idea of the Daughters of Union Veterans of the Civil War, though...my mom's excited, too. I think we'll check into that. Thanks, AOIIsilver! :)

AchtungBaby80, I just looked up Christopher Gist, and he's not listed - but SEVERAL other Gists are. Remember, though, even though he may not have been a soldier, if you can prove that he gave "aid and comfort" to the Revolution, he (and you!) is eligible. Aid and comfort can be as simple as giving the soldiers food or bales of hay to having hidden a soldier to serving as a Justice of the Peace/Juror/etc of any sort.

I'd love to see someone who was one of Washington's or Jefferson's slaves use this proviso that they are eligible, because if ANYONE gave aid & comfort, it was the slaves who kept the home fires burning!!

honeychile
02-20-2005, 11:12 PM
The reason I even dug up this old thread is the tired old story about the racist times of the 1930's, when Marian Anderson's first time to sing at the DAR's Memorial Hall was denied.

Last month, a stamp honoring Marian Anderson was issued, and the ceremony was held... at the DAR hall!

From the DAR website (http://www.dar.org/natsociety/slideshows/Slide_Show_Marian_Anderson/slideshow.cfm?seqn=13): "The ceremony's honored guests admire the new Marian Anderson Stamp, the 28th in the U.S. Postal Service's Black Heritage series. From left to right: Ambassador Jukka Valtasaari, Rev. Walter Fauntroy, soprano Kathleen Battle, Anderson biographer Allan Keiler, Anderson's nephew James DePreist, Deputy Postmaster General John Nolan, DAR President General Presley Wagoner, local ABC News reporter Angela Russell, mezzo-soprano Denyce Graves, soprano Mattiwilda Dobbs."

http://www.dar.org/natsociety/slideshows/Slide_Show_Marian_Anderson/013.jpg

If you watch the entire slideshow, you'll also see that several members of her family were there, too.

Beryana
02-21-2005, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by adduncan
I've seen this before too. The DAC are ladies descended from American settlers who arrived prior to about 1700 (don't quote me just yet on that..... need to cross-check that fact.)

Since I'm also putting together my papers for the DAC (as well as DAR - just waiting on copies to come back from CT and VT!), I'm going to add to the info about DAC. You actually have to prove that the ancestor was the original owner of land (through patent, grant, etc), served in a colonial army, member of MA Bay, London, Virginia, Plymouth companies, etc. Its unfortunately not as simple as just having arrived here prior to 4 July 1776. More information can be found at Daughters of American Colonists website (http://www.nsdac.org). This is quite a bit of fun to research! I found that an ancestor came to Boston with the MA Bay company (on the William and Frances) in 1632, another was a jury foreman for the murder trial that started the King Phillip's War, and a couple more service in a colonial army or were town clerks. I have also found out that I have ancestors that fought in most major conflicts since the 1600s - all volunteers!

Anyway, that's just my little addition!

Sarah

Lady Pi Phi
02-21-2005, 03:57 PM
I haven't read through this whole thread, but this seems like a good place to ask this question. While I'm not persuing membership in DAR (Toronto does have the Upper Canada chapter...I checked their webiste), I was wondering how one would go about tracing their geneology? I don't really want to pay someone to do it, but how I would I go about doing it myself? Just for fun. And who knows what I might find?

adduncan
02-21-2005, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
I haven't read through this whole thread, but this seems like a good place to ask this question. While I'm not persuing membership in DAR (Toronto does have the Upper Canada chapter...I checked their webiste), I was wondering how one would go about tracing their geneology? I don't really want to pay someone to do it, but how I would I go about doing it myself? Just for fun. And who knows what I might find?

Most of my research began with talking to older relatives to get some basic information about family relations they might remember. But the hard-core work starts with getting vital records. Most birth, marriage, and death records (as well as military, church, etc) will have information on each person's parents, where they were born, and mother's maiden name. Starting with your own parents' birth or marriage records, you can work up the line as far as records are available.

If you run into a dead end (everyone does, we all have stories about it. ;) ) there are other sources, such as newspaper articles (births and deaths are usually recorded there, as well as weddings) and military records - either pension roles or recruitment records.

Historical societies provide a great deal of help - they collect this kind of information and index it so it can be looked up.

This is just the first place to start. Ever since sites like www.ancestry.com started, this research has actually gotten easier. And I understand from our last Continental Congress that one of the goals of the current national administration is to get the DAR genealogical records online for easier access. (The records are already available in person in Memorial Continental Hall.)

Have fun - but I'll warn you, this is *very* addictive and there is no 12-step program. :p

--add

Lady Pi Phi
02-21-2005, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by adduncan
Most of my research began with talking to older relatives to get some basic information about family relations they might remember. But the hard-core work starts with getting vital records. Most birth, marriage, and death records (as well as military, church, etc) will have information on each person's parents, where they were born, and mother's maiden name. Starting with your own parents' birth or marriage records, you can work up the line as far as records are available.

If you run into a dead end (everyone does, we all have stories about it. ;) ) there are other sources, such as newspaper articles (births and deaths are usually recorded there, as well as weddings) and military records - either pension roles or recruitment records.

Historical societies provide a great deal of help - they collect this kind of information and index it so it can be looked up.

This is just the first place to start. Ever since sites like www.ancestry.com started, this research has actually gotten easier. And I understand from our last Continental Congress that one of the goals of the current national administration is to get the DAR genealogical records online for easier access. (The records are already available in person in Memorial Continental Hall.)

Have fun - but I'll warn you, this is *very* addictive and there is no 12-step program. :p

--add


Thanks!

I'll give it a go and see what I come up with.

honeychile
02-21-2005, 10:11 PM
Lady PiPhi, I found this link (http://www.dar.org/natsociety/content.cfm?id=92&hd=n&pf=n) last night, and while it's a step by step process for the DAR, it's really a very good and realistic way to go about doing ANY lineage (especially Part One). Just bear in mind, there are a lot of tales & stories that may help you out - or bog you down. Be sure to be able to back up anything you find online or in a history - the information is only as good as the person who writes it. Trust me, there's enough misinformation on one of my lines online, I could cry!

Good luck, and if you need any help, I'm sure adduncan, Silver, or I would be happy to help you!


Sarah - CONGRATULATIONS!!! I'm thrilled for you!!! And thank you for the link!

mmcat
02-21-2005, 11:01 PM
good luck to you...
my mom helped my sister and i through the process.

AlphaSigOU
02-21-2005, 11:20 PM
Sorry, don't qualify for membership in the DAR; I'm 3rd generation FOB (fresh off the boat) from Ireland on my father's side, part Venezuelan and Hindu (via Trinidad) on my mother's side.

I might qualify for membership in the Sons of Erin or whatever Irish genealogical society is called.

honeychile
05-16-2005, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by AlphaSigOU
Sorry, don't qualify for membership in the DAR; I'm 3rd generation FOB (fresh off the boat) from Ireland on my father's side, part Venezuelan and Hindu (via Trinidad) on my mother's side.

I might qualify for membership in the Sons of Erin or whatever Irish genealogical society is called.

Ancient Order of the Hiberians?

Here (http://www.rootsweb.com/~cahtgs/society.htm) is a list of many of the lineage societies available in the United States. I think the links are a bit old, so if you put the name of an organization in a search engine, you may have some luck.

Peaches-n-Cream
05-17-2005, 10:01 AM
AOH or The Society of the Friendly Sons of St. Patrick.

I think that when I have some free time, I will start to research my lineage again. Not for DAR membership, but just to see if I can.

honeychile
05-17-2005, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
AOH or The Society of the Friendly Sons of St. Patrick.

I think that when I have some free time, I will start to research my lineage again. Not for DAR membership, but just to see if I can.

LOL - that's how I got started... :D

honeychile
03-29-2006, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by AXiD670
*bump*

I was searching for something else, and this thread came up, reminding me that I needed to page honeychile for a question I have!

It may have been mentioned in this thread, and I'm too lazy to read the whole thing again, but here it is:

My brother just joined the SAR, and he told my mom that all his paperwork is online now in case my sister and I wanted to join DAR. Is that correct -- can I use his info?
The answer is a definite Yes and No!

Yes, your information (assuming that you have the same biological parents) is the same, so it's definitely of great use.

No, because you can't use the short form of just proving that you're his sister, because the SAR and the DAR are not related (even though they use the same information).

Here's the easy way to do it: fill out this form (http://members.dar.org/dar/darnet/pmd/prospective.cfm), filling in as much as you can. If you know of someone who is already IN the DAR and would sponsor you, tell her that you have the information. The tricky part is if you don't really care for the chapter your friend is in, or if you don't really like the chapter suggested to you. This happened to me, and I'm just now extricating myself from it!

You'll be sent information on the DAR, and much of the worksheets etc can be found here (http://www.dar.org/natsociety/forms.cfm#mem). You want the RGG 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003 charts. These should be identical to that of your brother, except for your birth certificate.

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate, and must send for it, be sure to make a note that it's for genealogical reasons! Most states are sending out birth certificates that say Mary Doe was born on 1/1/2001 in City, County, State. You need the one that says that Mary Doe, daughter of John and Sally Doe, was born on 1/1/2001 in City, County, State. Your baptismal or dedication certificates are good for establishing proof, too.

Good luck, and keep us posted about how it's going! I wish you were in my area, as I found a very nice, and very fun chapter now!