Sen. Strom Thurmond

[honeychile]

I just heard that Sen. Strom Thurmond (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&ncid=703&e=2&u=/ap/20030627/ap_on_go_co/obit_thurmond) passed away.

For those of you who didn't know, his second wife, Nancy Moore, was an Alpha Delta Pi.

Since I don't know if I did the link right above, the link to the Yahoo! page is: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&ncid=703&e=2&u=/ap/20030627/ap_on_go_co/obit_thurmond

[OUlioness01]

i just studied him a couple weeks ago in history class. you know he holds the record for the longest filibuster...in high school i learned he managed that by actually sitting down and reading the phone book to the senate. i admire him for holding on the way he did for so long, even if he was completely misguided thoughout his life.

[honeychile]

I just posted this under Official News, because I didn't know whether this was the appropriate fora or not.

What was interesting in the Yahoo article was that it seemed that he tried to make up for his racist beginnings. Gotta love an old dog who learns new tricks!

[docetboy]

This is an extraordinary loss to the people of America. Strom Thurmond was a great man and a great Senator representing the people of South Carolina for almost 50 years. Despite your views on his political platform, you must respect the man and how much he dedicated for his country. He was a public servant his entire life, from county school superintendent, to governor, to the longest-serving Senator in American history.

He was a great soldier, being awarded five Battle Stars and eighteen decorations, medals and honors for his service in World War II. They include the Legion of Merit with Oak Leaf Cluster, the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart, Belgian Order of the Crown and French Croix de Guerre.

Despite being exempt from the Draft, he enlisted anyway. He landed on the beaches of Normandy on D-Day, flying past the front lines in order to prevent German reinforcements from reaching the area. Before the end of the war, he helped liberate Paris, fought in the Battle of the Bulge, and helped fight into Germany.

J. Strom Thurmond was a great American and every American should be mourning over this great loss. Please hold his family in your thoughts and prayers.

http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images/news36/7crash26.jpg.l.jpghttp://www.strom.clemson.edu/strom/gallery/photos/16b.jpg

[AOcutiePi4ever]

i'm sorry for his wife...

and it's sad that he died...

but i must say i praised the Lord when he finally retired from his position bc he was WAY too conservative for today's people.

[EagleChick19]

:(

[RUgreek]

He really put everything into his job and country. It's amazing how long he lasted. Sad on his passing, but he wasn't the greatest person in the world - he did run for president on a strong policy of racial segregation. Alas, it was the time when people thought it was right.

[AlphaGamDiva]

how sad......but what a long and serving life he lead.

i understand that people may have issues with some of his beliefs in the past, but please....let's not speak ill of the dead. he served SC wonderfully through the years, so let's focus on that! :)

and docet....what a nice post on all that he accomplished...thanks for the info!

[steelepike]

Sad to to see the loss of Brother Thurmond, he lived a long and fullfilled life.

[GeekyPenguin]

That's really sad - I am very impressed by everything he accomplished. I never agreed with his politics, but he was an amazing man, and I'd be happy to accomplish half as much in my life as he did in his.

[Kevin]

I believe the man changed many of his views over the years. I couldn't name many people who were in the public eye for such a long span of years. It's easy to confuse the Strom of 50 years ago with the Strom of recent years. I'd wager they'd be two entirely different folks.

Regardless of his politics or ideas, what he did was pretty damned amazing. He loved his country and he served it the best way that he knew how.

You have to respect that about him.

[PiKA2001]

A hundred years of life and 83 of service. Strom Thurmond was quite the man.

[PM_Mama00]

Wow that was possibly the rudest comment I've ever heard or seen.

RIP Strom... anyone who has spent those many years in politics is just crazy! But nevertheless, RIP.

[MSKKG]

Originally posted by BrownEyedGirl
It was just announced that he had another grandson the other day, so I'm sure it's a very emotional time for his family.

The State reported that his daughter Julie had a son on June 16, just 10 days before Strom died. It didn't mention any other grandchild or at least I didn't read about it. Is one of his sons a father?

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Wow that was possibly the rudest comment I've ever heard or seen.
Oh, yeah? Well, try this one:

“And I want to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that there’s not enough troops in the Army to force the Southern people to break down segregation and admit the nigger race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes and into our churches.”

Spoken by yours truly, Good ol' Strom. Forgive me if I'm not all broken up over here. :rolleyes:

[PiKA2001]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
And I say goodbye to bad rubbish.

I was waiting for this to pop up on Thurmond. It's true that he might be looked at as being racist for some of the remarks he made in the past, but over the course of his lifespan he more than made up for the mistakes he made in the past. I think now in his death it would be kind of pointless to hold any grudges against the man.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
Oh, yeah? Well, try this one:

“And I want to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that there’s not enough troops in the Army to force the Southern people to break down segregation and admit the nigger race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes and into our churches.”

Spoken by yours truly, Good ol' Strom. Forgive me if I'm not all broken up over here. :rolleyes:
The Senator was an obvious racist when he began his career.

It seem equally obvious the he changed dramatically over the years, including being the first Southern Senator to employ a black person on his staff.

The "bad rubbish" comment was uncalled for under the circumstances.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
The "bad rubbish" comment was uncalled for under the circumstances.

You're entitled to your opinion, as am I. If I see Strom as being bad rubbish, than that is what I stand by. You are in no position to determine what is and what is not called for.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
You're entitled to your opinion, as am I.
Fine.

In my opinion, the "bad rubbish" comment was uncalled for under the circumstances.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
In my opinion, the "bad rubbish" comment was uncalled for under the circumstances.

Yeah, and so was the "nigger" comment under any circumstance.

[Cloud9]

Why is it that when some one dies, suddenly all their wrongful actions, however terrible, must suddenly be overlooked? Dead or alive, the man was awful, in my opinion. I'm not going to suddenly revere him just because he no longer draws breath.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by Cloud9
Why is it that when some one dies, suddenly all their wrongful actions, however terrible, must suddenly be overlooked?

Agreed. If she had said something similar three days ago, nobody would have batted an eyelash. I honestly don't think Strom Thurmond cares anymore that he's dead than he would have when he was living, so why should it suddenly matter now that he's dead?

[swissmiss04]

May it be said again: Do not speak ill of the dead. I'm sure none of us are without flaws and personally I wouldn't want mine dredged back up after my death when I can't defend myself. Show some respect or keep quiet. It's better for us to wonder if you're an idiot than for you to post some crap and leave us no doubt.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
Yeah, and so was the "nigger" comment under any circumstance.
For the record, you have NEVER seen me use that term.

A number of people aren't overlooking Thurman's record of racism, just reacting to the changes he made over the course of his life and career.

"To err is human, to forgive, devine."

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
May it be said again: Do not speak ill of the dead. I'm sure none of us are without flaws and personally I wouldn't want mine dredged back up after my death when I can't defend myself. Show some respect or keep quiet. It's better for us to wonder if you're an idiot than for you to post some crap and leave us no doubt.

Oh come on now. Like I said, if she had posted something bad about Strom three days ago nobody would have cared. And it has nothing to do with him "not being able to defend himself now" because it's not like he sat around reading the GC message boards before he died.

The guy did some terrible isht which, in my opinion, can't be "erased" by the fact that he later tried to make up for it. That doesn't excuse the fact that it happened in the first place. Do I think that he's a horrible person? No. But do I think that the fact that he died means that we should all bow down and praise him? Again, no.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
For the record, you have NEVER seen me use that term.

A number of people aren't overlooking Thurman's record of racism, just reacting to the changes he made over the course of his life and career.

"To err is human, to forgive, devine."

I certainly wasn't suggesting that you used the term. I was referring to Strom's quote.

And as far as the last comment goes.... to err is to blunder, to make a mistake. I don't consider supporting a system that oppresses of an entire race of people an err. And on the whole forgiveness thing... I hope he sought it before he died.

[Bamboozled]

And who deleted my "bad rubbish" comment? Oh, I see.... people can profess their love for this blatant racist, but I can't voice my views. What kind of isht is that? But, I am LMAO that the "nigger" comment stayed. Y'all are too much for me.

[PM_Mama00]

It's called not dealing with racist people like you.

[RedefinedDiva]

Bamboozled and Sugar and Spice made some good comments. No one is speaking "ill" of the dead. The facts are simply being stated. As Sugar and Spice stated, if Bamboozled would have made her comments two or three days ago, would there be all this? No one is "dredging up" his wrongs. His "wrongs" were the basis of most of his life and career!

Some have stated that he was a great man that did great things in his career for the country and his state. That is ONLY a matter of opinion. Conversely, it is the opinion of some of us to think that someone who would CONTINOUSLY do any and everything in their power to strike down equal rights in our country is ANYTHING but great. Ok, so he hired a Black person to work for him. AND??? After all that he had done to oppress minorities, that's the VERY LEAST that he could do.

[PM_Mama00]

Yay! ANOTHER THREAD turned into a race issue.

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Yay! ANOTHER THREAD turned into a race issue.

Who's turning anything into a "race issue"? If you would have taken the time to read ANY article in ANY newpaper, book, or magazine on Thurmond, as well as most of the posts in this PRIOR to my post, you would know that Thurmond, in and of himself, is a "race issue". Get real!

[Honeykiss1974]

Why don't someone change the title of this thread to read something like this...

"Sen. Strom Thurmond-Pay Your Respects Here"

that way, those of you who want to praise :rolleyes: his works, life, and legacy can do so. And it will let those of us know the true purpose of this thread, since apparently it is not for the purpose of GC'ers to post their feelings :mad: about the passing of ol' Strom.

I was under the impression that people could post their feelings about his passing, but apparently not since post are being deleted.

[ZTAMiami]

If this was meant to be a Strom Thurmond sympathy thread then it should have been called that. It wasn't and people are entitled to their opinions right. How is stating an opinion on the man's life and death offensive to anyone? I really don't think its necessary for posts to be deleted on this thread.
And I think not speaking ill of the dead is bull. Should we not speak ill of Hitler for instance? And no, I am NOT comparing Strom to Hitler.

[AlphaGamDiva]

i took the purpose of this thread to just be an announcing of a famous man's passing....like other threads have been.....

to me, it is out of respect for his life and the good things he accomplished rather than focusing on his past wrongs for why ppl shouldn't come on here with all their "good ridance." i know you weren't directly comparing sen thurmond to hitler, but just as a sidenote on that.......thurmond did do some wonderful things for this country.....hitler, kinda, didn't do anything good for his country. yes, thurmond made his mistakes and no one on here is saying he was right in those words/actions.....all some ppl are asking, myself included, is to show a bit of respect for a life that is gone. a life that did do good deeds in this country, a life that changed for the better as far as racism is concerned, and a life that impacted and helped so many others.

i just don't see a thread announcing someone's DEATH as a place to bash and criticize. but that may be just me.....

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
And who deleted my "bad rubbish" comment? Oh, I see.... people can profess their love for this blatant racist, but I can't voice my views. What kind of isht is that? But, I am LMAO that the "nigger" comment stayed. Y'all are too much for me.

Yeah these GC people are foolish. Are you a girl (If not, skip the next question)? Do you have controversial (naked) pictures to show us?

-Rudey
--Controversial pictures help people deal with these things better.

[MSKKG]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Agreed. If she had said something similar three days ago, nobody would have batted an eyelash. I honestly don't think Strom Thurmond cares anymore that he's dead than he would have when he was living, so why should it suddenly matter now that he's dead?

It's all about timing. Strom's comments were made when the attitudes about race relations were much different than now. He obviously changed. There's a difference in saying something about someone's actions/comments before that person dies or afterwards, especially with the obvious rancor in tone which totally disregards all the good Mr. Thurmond did.

It's funny to see who is forgiven for attitudes/comments/actions and who is not.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I think that the life of Strom Thurmon parallels the United States. He was a racist (clearly), saw the error of his ways, and tried to make ammends.

[gamma_girl52]

I said I wasn't going to comment, but...*sigh*

I think it's appalling that people's posts are being deleted because they are expressing an opinion. Last time I checked we had free speech. Everybody is entitled to it.

This thread exemplifies just how divided we are...most of you are praising Mr. Thurmond on his many good works/deeds/etc. and that is fine. However, in that far away place called the black community :p there's a different view of the same man. As a black person whose parents and grandparents unfortunately felt the brunt of this man's racist views, clearly I have a much different opinion. So when I see comments like RD and Bamboozled's being deleted I'm asking why that is. It's not like they're (or me for that matter) are trying to start a mini-race war. It's how we feel (and I do agree with their comments). And just as the many of you feel that he was a good man and all, we feel differently.

Now if Mr. Thurmond has changed his ways throughout the course of his life then I applaud that--because racists as well as racists attitudes suck :D. But let's not forget the man's past as it's a part of who he is overall.

That's all I had to say.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Cream
I think that the life of Strom Thurmon parallels the United States. He was a racist (clearly), saw the error of his ways, and tried to make ammends.
Okay, I'm really confused by everyone saying that Strom made amends. Amends with whom? Definitely not the very people he oppressed for so long. What did he ever do to help race relations in the country? Because he did "great" things to further his own cause, is of no consequence to me. And you can't really believe that all of this happened so long ago. Want some more Strom facts? Here ya go:

In 1941, Thurmond was a circuit court judge. He presided over the trial of a seventeen year old black farmer, Samuel Osborne, who shot and killed his white employer with a shotgun in self defense when the man attacked Samuel while the young black man was sleeping. He threatened Samuel with a .32-caliber pistol and a club with which he was known to beat his black employees. Despite the fact that the Supreme Court had already ruled that the exclusion of blacks from juries was unconstitutional, Thurmond allowed Osborne to be tried for murder by an all-white jury and later sentenced him to death.

As governor of South Carolina, he opposed the integration of black and white troops in the U.S. army.

When Strom Thurmond ran for president in 1948, he ran on the 'Sates Rights' campaign, which was a Cival War era term used as a euphemism of 'White Power.' His campaign slogan was 'Segregation Forever'.

When Harry Truman insisted that the Democratic Party abandon racism in all forms, Thurmond left the party, ran as independent and eventually became a Republican.

In 1957, he filibustered for over 24 hours, one of the longest filibusters in US history, against the passage of the Civil Rights act, which would give equal rights to Americans of all races.

He was an avid supporter of Richard Nixon and used his racist stance to rally support for Nixon in southern states.

Thurmond repeatedly voted against laws that would give rights to blacks, gays, or women.

And I'm supposed to give respect to this person??? WTF ever. He's your hero, not mine.

*Edited to add: The only part of this thread directed at Cream is the first couple of sentences.

[CountryGurl]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
May it be said again: Do not speak ill of the dead. I'm sure none of us are without flaws and personally I wouldn't want mine dredged back up after my death when I can't defend myself. Show some respect or keep quiet.


Let me ask you this, what do you think of Malcolm X? Would you ever say good/positive things about him even though he's dead? Wait let me answer that for you HELL NO, you wouldn't!!! So why should anyone of the African-American race speak good things about Thurmond? I've never heard Thurmond apologize for his views towards African- Americans. Okay you're entiled to speak on all the good Thurmond did for Whites but as for me all I can speak on is the ILL way he treated my people. Don't get me wrong I feel sorry for his family because losing a family member is a hurtful thing but please don't expect me to mourn his death!

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
Okay, I'm really confused by everyone saying that Strom made ammends. Ammends with whom? Definitely not the very people he oppressed for so long. What did he ever do to help race relations in the country? Because he did "great" things to further his own cause, is of no consequence to me. And you can't really believe that all of this happened so long ago. Want some more Strom facts? Here ya go:

In 1941, Thurmond was a circuit court judge. He presided over the trial of a seventeen year old black farmer, Samuel Osborne, who shot and killed his white employer with a shotgun in self defense when the man attacked Samuel while the young black man was sleeping. He threatened Samuel with a .32-caliber pistol and a club with which he was known to beat his black employees. Despite the fact that the Supreme Court had already ruled that the exclusion of blacks from juries was unconstitutional, Thurmond allowed Osborne to be tried for murder by an all-white jury and later sentenced him to death.

As governor of South Carolina, he opposed the integration of black and white troops in the U.S. army.

When Strom Thurmond ran for president in 1948, he ran on the 'Sates Rights' campaign, which was a Cival War era term used as a euphemism of 'White Power.' His campaign slogan was 'Segregation Forever'.

When Harry Truman insisted that the Democratic Party abandon racism in all forms, Thurmond left the party, ran as independent and eventually became a Republican.

In 1957, he filibustered for over 24 hours, one of the longest filibusters in US history, against the passage of the Civil Rights act, which would give equal rights to Americans of all races.

He was an avid supporter of Richard Nixon and used his racist stance to rally support for Nixon in southern states.

Thurmond repeatedly voted against laws that would give rights to blacks, gays, or women.

And I'm supposed to give respect to this person??? WTF ever. He's your hero, not mine.

You don't have to respect him or anyone. I don't respect him either. He is NOT my hero.

Thanks for the info. I really don't know much about him except what I read in the link. I was under the impression that he had changed his racist views in the last few years of his life. Perhaps I am mistakened.

I'll delete my post if you want. I thought that he was a changed man.

[tunatartare]

Originally posted by ZTAMiami
If this was meant to be a Strom Thurmond sympathy thread then it should have been called that. It wasn't and people are entitled to their opinions right. How is stating an opinion on the man's life and death offensive to anyone? I really don't think its necessary for posts to be deleted on this thread.
And I think not speaking ill of the dead is bull. Should we not speak ill of Hitler for instance? And no, I am NOT comparing Strom to Hitler.

I agree, right now people who don't want to speak ill of the dead are trying to glorify Strom Thurmond and to focus on all of his positive actions and forget the ones that aren't as pleasant for people to recall. While he may have done a lot for America, he was an actively racist man, there's no denying that, and if you want to remember him accurately and justly in the way that he lived his life, you ought to remember that too.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
He was an avid supporter of Richard Nixon and used his racist stance to rally support for Nixon in southern states.

I thought you'd be happy about his supporting Nixon.

-Rudey
--Almost time for a history lesson.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Rudey
I thought you'd be happy about his supporting Nixon.

-Rudey
--Almost time for a history lesson.

Do you know me or something? Please don't make assumptions about my political beliefs.

--You have yet to make any valuable contributions to this thread.

[steelepike]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Oh come on now. Like I said, if she had posted something bad about Strom three days ago nobody would have cared. And it has nothing to do with him "not being able to defend himself now" because it's not like he sat around reading the GC message boards before he died.

The guy did some terrible isht which, in my opinion, can't be "erased" by the fact that he later tried to make up for it. That doesn't excuse the fact that it happened in the first place. Do I think that he's a horrible person? No. But do I think that the fact that he died means that we should all bow down and praise him? Again, no.

I would have cared.

[CountryGurl]

Originally posted by Rudey
I thought you'd be happy about his supporting Nixon.

-Rudey
--Almost time for a history lesson.

Why?:confused: Nixon was just the lesser of two evils!!

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
Do you know me or something? Please don't make assumptions about my political beliefs.

--You have yet to make any valuable contributions to this thread.

No I don't know you at all. I'm just really smart. It doesn't have to do with your political beliefs. Obviously you don't know some of the contributions the Nixon administration made.

-Rudey
--Now play nice or I won't share my history lesson.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Cream
You don't have to respect him or anyone. I don't respect him either. He is NOT my hero.

I just went back and edited my post because the only lines that were directed at you were the first two (even though I quoted you). The remainder of the post is directed to everyone else. Hopefully someone can answer my questions.

[steelepike]

Good Ol' Strom making controversy even after his death, I will miss that old guy.

So keep arguing because obviously you are all changing the world for the better.

And allow me to take my seat so I can get back to watching this show.

[CountryGurl]

Originally posted by Rudey
No I don't know you at all. I'm just really smart. It doesn't have to do with your political beliefs. Obviously you don't know some of the contributions the Nixon administration made.

-Rudey
--Now play nice or I won't share my history lesson.


Key word being SOME

[Rudey]

Originally posted by CountryGurl
Key word being SOME


In other words you still don't know some of his contributions. You're writing that whole key word thing didn't get across the message you wanted to bring about. You're not good enough. Tisk tisk.

-Rudey
--The Nixon administration championed affirmative action.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
I just went back and edited my post because the only lines that were directed at you were the first two (even though I quoted you). The remainder of the post is directed to everyone else. Hopefully someone can answer my questions.

OK cool. I posted before I read your edited section. :)

Peace

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Rudey
No I don't know you at all. I'm just really smart. It doesn't have to do with your political beliefs. Obviously you don't know some of the contributions the Nixon administration made.

-Rudey
--Now play nice or I won't share my history lesson.

What? :confused: This is not about the Nixon administration. The whole point was to illustrate that Strom used his racist beliefs to not only further his own agenda, but those of other "leaders" as well. I didn't make one comment about the actual "contributions of the Nixon administration", so how can you speculate about what I know? If you want to start a debate about Nixon, start a new thread.

--:rolleyes:

[OUlioness01]

wow I can't believe this has blown up this far. Yes Strom Thrumond did do/say some terrible things in his lifetime. Yet, he did do some wonderful things as well. He served his constituents, yet he was very racist (although he did change his stance on that towards the latter part of his life). You cannot summarize his life in a single statement he made or a single group or organization he was a part of (unless that's the government as a whole). My point is that everyone is going to have different feelings about him and we should respect each others opinions. His death should not be turned into an occasion for yet another race argument (we've had enough of that this week), nor is it the time for namecalling and disrespect. Please honor everyone's opinions. We're not all giong to agree but let's at least keep htis civil and not debate through immature remarks and accusations.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
What? :confused: This is not about the Nixon administration. The whole point was to illustrate that Strom used his racist beliefs to not only further his own agenda, but those of other "leaders" as well. I didn't make one comment about the actual "contributions of the Nixon administration", so how can you speculate about what I know? If you want to start a debate about Nixon, start a new thread.

--:rolleyes:

What you said still makes no sense. So one of the reasons why Strom was bad was that he supported leaders in his party? In the end, Strom supported an administration that championed affirmative action.

-Rudey

[vanda]

If Strom was truly sincere in acceptance of blacks, he would have apologized for all past evil deeds towards them. Even to his death, he never chose to do so.

[MSKKG]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
Okay, I'm really confused by everyone saying that Strom made amends. Amends with whom? Definitely not the very people he oppressed for so long. What did he ever do to help race relations in the country? Because he did "great" things to further his own cause, is of no consequence to me. And you can't really believe that all of this happened so long ago. Want some more Strom facts? Here ya go:

In 1941, Thurmond was a circuit court judge. He presided over the trial of a seventeen year old black farmer, Samuel Osborne, who shot and killed his white employer with a shotgun in self defense when the man attacked Samuel while the young black man was sleeping. He threatened Samuel with a .32-caliber pistol and a club with which he was known to beat his black employees. Despite the fact that the Supreme Court had already ruled that the exclusion of blacks from juries was unconstitutional, Thurmond allowed Osborne to be tried for murder by an all-white jury and later sentenced him to death.

As governor of South Carolina, he opposed the integration of black and white troops in the U.S. army.

When Strom Thurmond ran for president in 1948, he ran on the 'Sates Rights' campaign, which was a Cival War era term used as a euphemism of 'White Power.' His campaign slogan was 'Segregation Forever'.

When Harry Truman insisted that the Democratic Party abandon racism in all forms, Thurmond left the party, ran as independent and eventually became a Republican.

In 1957, he filibustered for over 24 hours, one of the longest filibusters in US history, against the passage of the Civil Rights act, which would give equal rights to Americans of all races.

He was an avid supporter of Richard Nixon and used his racist stance to rally support for Nixon in southern states.

Thurmond repeatedly voted against laws that would give rights to blacks, gays, or women.

And I'm supposed to give respect to this person??? WTF ever. He's your hero, not mine.

*Edited to add: The only part of this thread directed at Cream is the first couple of sentences.

The things you mentioned are over 50 years ago. How about looking at something a little more recent? This is a quote from The State: "Such segregationist stances still angered many South Carolinians decades later, in part because Thurmond never apologized.

"But many black and white people say Thurmond changed his views on racial issues. He became the first Southern member of Congress to appoint a black person to his professional staff. He voted for the Voting Rights Act of 1982. And he was honored in 1995 by the presidents of historically black colleges and universities or his support of those schools.

"'In most instances I am confident that we have more in common as Southerners then we have reason to oppose each other because of race,' Thurmond once told Ebony magazine. 'Equality of opportunity for all is a goal upon which blacks and Southern whites can agree.'"

[CountryGurl]

Originally posted by Rudey
In other words you still don't know some of his contributions. You're writing that whole key word thing didn't get across the message you wanted to bring about. You're not good enough. Tisk tisk.

-Rudey
--The Nixon administration championed affirmative action.


What I'm saying is yes maybe Nixon did make contributions but my community is still behind when it comes to the contributions given to the white community. Please trust me when I say that there are two communities:(

[docetboy]

Noone obviously paid any attention to my post on the first page, so I am going to post it again for everyones benifit. Despite your views on his political platform, he was a great American, Soldier, and Statesman who should be held in everyones prayers. For a short time, forget about politics...if that's possible!

(reposted: )
This is an extraordinary loss to the people of America. Strom Thurmond was a great man and a great Senator representing the people of South Carolina for almost 50 years. Despite your views on his political platform, you must respect the man and how much he dedicated for his country. He was a public servant his entire life, from county school superintendent, to governor, to the longest-serving Senator in American history.

He was a great soldier, being awarded five Battle Stars and eighteen decorations, medals and honors for his service in World War II. They include the Legion of Merit with Oak Leaf Cluster, the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart, Belgian Order of the Crown and French Croix de Guerre.

Despite being exempt from the Draft, he enlisted anyway. He landed on the beaches of Normandy on D-Day, flying past the front lines in order to prevent German reinforcements from reaching the area. Before the end of the war, he helped liberate Paris, fought in the Battle of the Bulge, and helped fight into Germany.

J. Strom Thurmond was a great American and every American should be mourning over this great loss. Please hold his family in your thoughts and prayers.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Rudey
What you said still makes no sense. So one of the reasons why Strom was bad was that he supported leaders in his party? In the end, Strom supported an administration that championed affirmative action.

-Rudey

Well, Strom was bad for many reasons. Surely you're not implying that Strom garnered support for Nixon from the southern states on an affirmative action platform? He was still preaching "segregation now and forever".

[MSKKG]

Originally posted by vanda
If Strom was truly sincere in acceptance of blacks, he would have apologized for all past evil deeds towards them. Even to his death, he never chose to do so.

From the tone of some of these posts and the quick-to-take-offense responses, a verbal apology wouldn't have been good enough either. His actions showed his change of heart and true remorse.

[swissmiss04]

Originally posted by CountryGurl
Let me ask you this, what do you think of Malcolm X? Would you ever say good/positive things about him even though he's dead? Wait let me answer that for you HELL NO, you wouldn't!!! So why should anyone of the African-American race speak good things about Thurmond? I've never heard Thurmond apologize for his views towards African- Americans. Okay you're entiled to speak on all the good Thurmond did for Whites but as for me all I can speak on is the ILL way he treated my people. Don't get me wrong I feel sorry for his family because losing a family member is a hurtful thing but please don't expect me to mourn his death!

Um, listen, I have plenty to say about Malcolm X. And you know what? It's GOOD stuff. Sure he espoused some very racist views and actions early in his "career" but gradually moved away from those and from the Nation of Islam (if you want to talk racism, they could write the book). He went on to promote intelligent dialogue between the races and so sadly was cut off in his prime by his own people who wanted to keep the "old ways". So tragic. Yet another example among so many that originally erred in judgement and went on to make amends. Sure Strom was racist. Personally, I wasn't a fan. But he did do a lot for a state that for so long was impoverished. But I feel that any man, no matter how "crazy" he might be, who served his country for as long as Sen. Thurmond did should at least be spared the ugly comments. Or at least for the sake of his family, if nothing else. I don't "expect" anyone to mourn, or even to think he was a decent human. But common courtesy expects that people know how to speak well or keep silent. Show that you're the better man (or woman) and refrain from rudeness. I'm not just saying this to you, but to everyone. Sure there are fans, there are "non-fans" and then those who don't care. But I think that we all need to loosen up and just let it go. He's dead. He messed up. We all do. End of story. End of rant. Thank you.

[docetboy]

To Remind everyone this thread is about someone's DEATH, I am posting these remarks about the Senator's passing from some prominent Congressmen:

"Senator Thurmond was symbolic of the Old South, but his willingness to change over time set an example for many South Carolinians." — U.S. Rep. James Clyburn, D-S.C.

"Even though we ended up on other sides of the aisle, there was never any doubt about the interest of South Carolina." — U.S. Sen. Fritz Hollings (search), D-S.C

"Constituent service became his middle name — whatever you wanted, whatever you needed, Senator Thurmond made it happen." — U.S. Rep. Gresham Barrett, R-S.C.

"We have just lost our greatest statesman." — South Carolina Republican Party Chairman Katon Dawson.

"In South Carolina, there are leaders and then there was Strom, there are public servants and then there was Senator Thurmond." — South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford.


I am urging everyone: At this time of the mourning of his passing, forget about his views might make your blood boil. Remember what he was able to accomplish for his Country and for his State and how dedicated he was to both.

[vanda]

Originally posted by MSKKG
From the tone of some of these posts and the quick-to-take-offense responses, a verbal apology wouldn't have been good enough either. His actions showed his change of heart and true remorse.


Was it really a sincere change of heart or just cloaking his true self?

[Honeykiss1974]

I still stand by the fact that regardless, Bamboozled's post shouldn't have been deleted simply because the moderator didn't like her "unflattering" comments about ol' Stromy.

Simply put, that's silly :mad: :rolleyes:

Not every liked/cared/give a d#^m/or respected the man! In life and even in death.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by MSKKG
The things you mentioned are over 50 years ago. How about looking at something a little more recent
*sigh* It really bothers me that some people think 50 years ago was so long ago. Hell, my parents were alive and would most likely disagree with you. Some GC members were alive. It certainly wasn't that long ago and the ramifications are still being felt today.

Originally posted by MSKKG
"But many black and white people say Thurmond changed his views on racial issues. He became the first Southern member of Congress to appoint a black person to his professional staff. He voted for the Voting Rights Act of 1982. And he was honored in 1995 by the presidents of historically black colleges and universities or his support of those schools.
Yes, it's been mentioned that he appointed A black person to his staff. Kudos. 1982??? Voting Rights Act??? Laughable.

Originally posted by MSKKG
"'In most instances I am confident that we have more in common as Southerners then we have reason to oppose each other because of race,' Thurmond once told Ebony magazine. 'Equality of opportunity for all is a goal upon which blacks and Southern whites can agree.'"

Please tell me you can find a better quote than this one to convince me. Let's break it down. He prefaces it with saying "In most instances", LOL. What are the other instances in which we don't have more in common? And the second part? Of course "equality of opportunity" is a goal of all people: black, white, Asian, Indian, etc...

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by MSKKG
From the tone of some of these posts and the quick-to-take-offense responses, a verbal apology wouldn't have been good enough either. His actions showed his change of heart and true remorse.

Again, I ask, what did he do? What actions showed his change of heart and true remorse? I really am curious.

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
Again, I ask, what did he do? What actions showed his change of heart and true remorse? I really am curious.

Dayum, Bamboozled! HE SAID IT, so that's all that is important! :rolleyes: :D

[CountryGurl]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
Um, listen, I have plenty to say about Malcolm X. And you know what? It's GOOD stuff. Sure he espoused some very racist views and actions early in his "career" but gradually moved away from those and from the Nation of Islam (if you want to talk racism, they could write the book). He went on to promote intelligent dialogue between the races and so sadly was cut off in his prime by his own people who wanted to keep the "old ways". So tragic. Yet another example among so many that originally erred in judgement and went on to make amends. Sure Strom was racist. Personally, I wasn't a fan. But he did do a lot for a state that for so long was impoverished. But I feel that any man, no matter how "crazy" he might be, who served his country for as long as Sen. Thurmond did should at least be spared the ugly comments. Or at least for the sake of his family, if nothing else. I don't "expect" anyone to mourn, or even to think he was a decent human. But common courtesy expects that people know how to speak well or keep silent. Show that you're the better man (or woman) and refrain from rudeness. I'm not just saying this to you, but to everyone. Sure there are fans, there are "non-fans" and then those who don't care. But I think that we all need to loosen up and just let it go. He's dead. He messed up. We all do. End of story. End of rant. Thank you.


I understand your point of view. However, how can you expect African Americans to mourn a man who did everything to hold us back? Yes he did serve his country, a country during Thurmond's days in politics rated us (African Americans) as second class citizens. Don't get me wrong you and whoever else that feel like honoring Thurmond is the right thing to do, should do so. Just don't assume that the entire country is feeling the same way.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Dayum, Bamboozled! HE SAID IT, so that's all that is important! :rolleyes: :D

LMAO, I'm really starting to think you're right. Everyone is saying how he made amends and was remorseful, but I am genuinely curious as to when all of this took place. Well, I guess I'll head back on over to AKA Ave. where I know my posts won't be deleted for having a dissenting opinion:o.

[OUlioness01]

Originally posted by CountryGurl
I understand your point of view. However, how can you expect African Americans to mourn a man who did everything to hold us back? Yes he did serve his country, a country during Thurmond's days in politics rated us (African Americans) as second class citizens. Don't get me wrong you and whoever else that feel like honoring Thurmond is the right thing to do, should do so. Just don't assume that the entire country is feeling the same way.

we're not asking you to mourn him, no one is asking that. everyone has the right to detest his actions or respect his legacy, whichever they may feel is more appropriate. we're just asking that everyone show respect for someone who is no longer with us. there are respectful ways of disagreeing with people and then there are disrespectful ways of disagreeing with people and i think we've seen both today. you, i am glad to say are at least being respectful of everyones' veiwpoints. thank you for that, because i'm tired of attacks on each other simply because we GCers as a whole have differt opinions on the same subject.

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by docetboy
Remember what he was able to accomplish for his Country and for his State and how dedicated he was to both.

Were minorities not citizens of this country or his "great state"? How can you serve some, but not ALL? Some people just fail to realize the truth and reality....

*shaking my head*

[tunatartare]

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
Were minorities not citizens of this country or his "great state"? How can you serve some, but not ALL? Some people just fail to realize the truth and reality....

*shaking my head*

I couldn't agree with you more

[midwesterngirl]

Originally posted by vanda
Was it really a sincere change of heart or just cloaking his true self?


Sadly enough,I have to question this as well.Good PR is a must in politics nowadays.I do question the sincerity of his change.Was his change of heart genuine or just good public relations?
Now I am sure that he may have done good things for the people of South Carolina in one way or another but to say that he really was representative of his constituents is not a compliment in my book.I hope all the people of South Carolina don't think like he did.

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by OUlioness01
we're not asking you to mourn him, no one is asking that.
May I direct you to the following...

Originally posted by docetboy
J. Strom Thurmond was a great American and every American should be mourning over this great loss. Please hold his family in your thoughts and prayers.

Get it?

[OUlioness01]

in my own opinion i am not asking anyone to mourn him. i don't think that docetboy was telling you you had to either. he was expressing his opinioin as i am expreessing mine and you are expressing yours. obviously we all have our own feelings about this. we should all keep his family in our thoughts and parayer because it is VERY hard to lose someone we love. surely that isn't too much to ask, even of those who hold grudges against him for things long in the past. just please do this in a CIVIL fashion ok?

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by midwesterngirl
Sadly enough,I have to question this as well.Good PR is a must in politics nowadays.I do question the sincerity of his change.Was his change of heart genuine or just good public relations?


From what I know and have read, it was NOT out of the goodness of his heart. As times changed, S. Carolina became 30% African-American. He also knew that those votes would make a difference. In an effort to win those votes, he knew that he had to do something to appease them. Therefore, he did make those "changes" ONLY in order to stay in office.

Hiring ONE Black American? Woo Hoo! :rolleyes:
Voting on a 1982 Voting Act? Yeah right!
The 1982 Vote was only an amendment! The original act was in place already! His one little vote didn't make a difference. It would have passed with or without him, but he had to make a show out of it.

Either way, both of those things took place well over 20 years ago. What has he done LATELY to make a difference?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by CountryGurl
What I'm saying is yes maybe Nixon did make contributions but my community is still behind when it comes to the contributions given to the white community. Please trust me when I say that there are two communities:(

There are more than 2 communities in America. I'd rather promote the progress any of them makes towards equality instead of saying it's not good enough.

Originally posted by Bamboozled "Well, Strom was bad for many reasons. Surely you're not implying that Strom garnered support for Nixon from the southern states on an affirmative action platform? He was still preaching "segregation now and forever"."

While you may think he was bad for many reasons, you still brought up Nixon in this thread. I just challenged that. I didn't imply he went through the South promoting Nixon's AA accomplishments. However, once again, if Strom is tied to Dick (which he is) then the party's achievements in the area of AA can't be ignored.

-Rudey

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by OUlioness01
i just please do this in a CIVIL fashion ok?

You keep bringing up this point. Who's not discussing this in a CIVIL fashion? Or does being uncivilized mean having an opposing view point? Yeah, I've been called a racist, LOL, and have had my posts censored, but I think I still retained my civility and so has everyone else. I think what you're really saying is say something nice or don't say anything at all and that's not going to happen. Forums are for discussion and I'm discussing how I feel about a horrible man's death.

[GeekyPenguin]

I think ultimately Strom represented his constituents very well - otherwise they wouldn't have kept electing him. While I certainly don't agree with many of the viewpoints the man held, he served the people who elected him. Isn't that the ultimate job of a senator or representative?

[CountryGurl]

Originally posted by Rudey
There are more than 2 communities in America. I'd rather promote the progress any of them makes towards equality instead of saying it's not good enough.


I can only speak for my community and trust me its not enough. Don't get me wrong I am proud of the achievements of the African American community but trust me when I say its still not enough. Once again I'm speaking on how things look on my side of the fence.

[OUlioness01]

you all are attacking each other, and now attacking me for disagreeing.
point 1

You're entitled to your opinion, as am I. If I see Strom as being bad rubbish, than that is what I stand by. You are in no position to determine what is and what is not called for.

someone was expressing the opinion merely that since the man is dead it is not in the best taste call someone a name and you told him (who has been alive much longer than you i'm guessing) that he cannot express his own opinion about your comment.

point 2
And who deleted my "bad rubbish" comment? Oh, I see.... people can profess their love for this blatant racist, but I can't voice my views. What kind of isht is that? But, I am LMAO that the "nigger" comment stayed. Y'all are too much for me.

another attack, this time on the moderator who was doing what he/she thought appropriate under the circumstances. i am not saying that the post should have been deleted but i do believe that you are being unreasonable.

point 3
It's called not dealing with racist people like you.
this was inappropriate as well. no one should be calling anyone racist. the perosn who made this comment was my sister and i respect her but i do think this was uncalled for.

point 4
Do you know me or something? Please don't make assumptions about my political beliefs.
--You have yet to make any valuable contributions to this thread.

rude, that is all i have to say. just rude

point 5
Get it?

that makes it sound like the person was trying to treat me as if i was a two year old.

please check the anger at the door and now let's get back to the reason we're all here.

[Bamboozled]

Oh, Puhleeze. So, bascially you just want a sugary-sweet, We Are The World type discussion? What good is any of it if you can't say what's on your mind. I didn't see one "attack" in anything you posted. It's called debating, disagreeing, dialouging (don't think that's a word, but still). I guess I just have a thick skin and unless someone calls me out of my name or physically threatens me, it's all fair game. "Attack" is such a funny word to use over the internet.

[docetboy]

This thread has gotten way off track from it's original purpose. This thread should be locked (well, it should of been locked three pages ago but that's a different story.

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
Forgive me if I'm not all broken up over here. :rolleyes:

Ditto. My mama always told me that if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all, so....

No comment.

[docetboy]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
Ditto. My mama always told me that if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all, so....

No comment.

With that logic, that post nor Bamboozled posts should of never been made.

[swissmiss04]

I'm sure we could ask a mod, but I'm pretty sure Bamboozled's post was deleted because it used the n-word (which is 100% a nono in any situation) straight out and not somehow censored. It's not a matter of opposing viewpoints, just inappropriate language. Moderators, any comment???

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by docetboy
With that logic, that post nor Bamboozled posts should of never been made.

On the contrary. Bamboozled said exactly what I wanted to say, but chose not to because (1) I knew how this thread would quickly devolve into mudslinging and accusations and (2) the less said about ol' Stromy, the better.

[docetboy]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
On the contrary. Bamboozled said exactly what I wanted to say, but chose not to because (1) I knew how this thread would quickly devolve into mudslinging and accusations and (2) the less said about ol' Stromy, the better.

Don't forget how this thread quickly did devolve into mudslinging and accusations, and the quickest way to get ol' Stromy off everyones minds is to simply let this thread go into the sunset into the no-mans land of threads after the first page...

With this mudslinging, you are simply keeping the focus of ol' Stromy on everyones minds.

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by docetboy
With this mudslinging, you are simply keeping the focus of ol' Stromy on everyones minds.

Docet, sweetie, I'm not slinging any mud. Didn't you see where I said "No comment"?

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
I'm sure we could ask a mod, but I'm pretty sure Bamboozled's post was deleted because it used the n-word (which is 100% a nono in any situation) straight out and not somehow censored. It's not a matter of opposing viewpoints, just inappropriate language. Moderators, any comment???

Actually, the post that had the "n word" in it was KEPT. It was one that was free and exempt of anything worthy of censorship....

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by docetboy
With this mudslinging, you are simply keeping the focus of ol' Stromy on everyones minds.

That's right. There are others just like him left in the world and everyone has their day. Not many people will leave a legacy of wine and roses behind on this earth. His "legacy" is one that cannot and will not be forgotten or pushed off "into the sunset." Keep it on your mind because as long as I'm alive, I will fight to change what his "legacy" has has done to my people.

[lifesaver]

Um, and there are STILL people in the US House and Senate who voted against the Civil Rights Act.

Not too many left, but a few.

[sugar and spice]

I can't believe some of the stuff that's being said here. If you're not black, why the hell are you trying to tell black people how they should feel about Strom Thurmond's death? IMO that's extremely, extremely invalidating.

Just because something happened 50 years ago doesn't make irrelevant. It still happened. And I certainly don't feel that appointing one black person to some committee makes up in any way for the fact that Thurmond actively campaigned for the deaths of blacks and against them acquiring any sort of rights.

Just because the feeling of the day among white Americans was generally anti-black doesn't excuse his behavior, either. The longest filibuster record was set when he was trying to prevent the passage of the Civil Rights Act -- which means there must have been a decent amount of Americans who wanted to see people of different races have equal rights, or else the Civil Rights Act would have never been proposed in the first place.

Edited to add: I agree with Honeykiss -- if this thread was meant to be ONLY for those paying their respects to Strom, it should have been labeled such in the first place.

[damasa]

Some of you people in this thread are nucking futs and I'm going to break it down like so:

This was a thread making an acknowledgement that Thurmond passed away.

People are all entitled to their opinions. If some are praising him how can others not bash him? Just because someone simply passes away doesn't mean that everyone should stash their negative views of the man away. So he did some good for the country, as I see it there was a time where he also did some bad. Whether he "changed" because of it really isn't up to me to decide and to be honest, I don't think many, if any are qualified to make such statements. I've seen no such evidence to support such a stance.

Now play nice before I start owning people....

[steelepike]

Originally posted by damasa
Now play nice before I start owning people....

a very interesting point, and choice of words.

Owning. I think thats a well placed play on words considering the topic of this thread.


I just wonder what we can argue about tomorrow.

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by steelepike
I just wonder what we can argue about tomorrow.
Ignorant ass comments like this:

Originally posted by damasa
Now play nice before I start owning people....

As long as we have people that can still make comments like this and stand behind them, then I am more than entitled to refute (or "argue" about) them, regardless of who it is referring to.

[steelepike]

I have no qualms about the arguing i just wonder what it will be tomorrow, the day before i think it was political party. Maybe tomorrow we can debate the issue of abortion.

[damasa]

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
Ignorant ass comments like this:



As long as we have people that can still make comments like this and stand behind them, then I am more than entitled to refute (or "argue" about) them, regardless of who it is referring to.

I swear some ppl are so dramatic. It has nothing to do with the sense of "owning someone as in my property." I knew someone would twist it though. It's "internet speak" for me basically whooping up on someone if they don't "play nice." Had you paid attention to the rest of my post, I was actually saying that it should be allowed for ppl to bash Thurmond if they want.

I never cared for the man either.

[steelepike]

just making a joke. i know you don't actually own people. but if you did that would be interesting

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by damasa
I swear some ppl are so dramatic. It has nothing to do with the sense of "owning someone as in my property." I knew someone would twist it though. It's "internet speak" for me basically whooping up on someone if they don't "play nice." Had you paid attention to the rest of my post, I was actually saying that it should be allowed for ppl to bash Thurmond if they want.

I never cared for the man either.

As true as that may be, how the hell is anyone supposed to know your internet speak? How many people actually use that term? If I took it out of context, I apologize; however, your use of terms for this thread was a little...odd.

[damasa]

Originally posted by steelepike
just making a joke. i know you don't actually own people. but if you did that would be interesting

LOL, that post wasn't in reference to you. I know you were making a joke as I was making a joke in "whooping on ppl by 'owning' them."

[damasa]

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
As true as that may be, how the hell is anyone supposed to know your internet speak? How many people actually use that term? If I took it out of context, I apologize; however, your use of terms for this thread was a little...odd.


Understood, it might have been odd, but it is actually funny, or can be if you know it. Quite a few ppl know about the "ownage" that I place on the GC. I guess you just have to know me though. It wasn't meant to be disrespectful and it wasn't made with any reference to slavery and/or slave owners, just to clear it up.


Owned in damasa terms:

http://www.brawl-hall.com/gallery/data/media/5/ownedkid.jpg

[steelepike]

that picture is so true of being owned. poor kid. did you do that, its nice work.

[bsp-mich24]

I can say one positive thing...he hired the 1st Afro-American staffer.

[AlphaSigOU]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
Um, listen, I have plenty to say about Malcolm X. And you know what? It's GOOD stuff. Sure he espoused some very racist views and actions early in his "career" but gradually moved away from those and from the Nation of Islam (if you want to talk racism, they could write the book). He went on to promote intelligent dialogue between the races and so sadly was cut off in his prime by his own people who wanted to keep the "old ways". So tragic. Yet another example among so many that originally erred in judgement and went on to make amends. Sure Strom was racist. Personally, I wasn't a fan. But he did do a lot for a state that for so long was impoverished. But I feel that any man, no matter how "crazy" he might be, who served his country for as long as Sen. Thurmond did should at least be spared the ugly comments. Or at least for the sake of his family, if nothing else. I don't "expect" anyone to mourn, or even to think he was a decent human. But common courtesy expects that people know how to speak well or keep silent. Show that you're the better man (or woman) and refrain from rudeness. I'm not just saying this to you, but to everyone. Sure there are fans, there are "non-fans" and then those who don't care. But I think that we all need to loosen up and just let it go. He's dead. He messed up. We all do. End of story. End of rant. Thank you.

Well said, swissmiss!

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
I'm sure we could ask a mod, but I'm pretty sure Bamboozled's post was deleted because it used the n-word (which is 100% a nono in any situation) straight out and not somehow censored. It's not a matter of opposing viewpoints, just inappropriate language. Moderators, any comment???

The post that got deleted earlier this morning was the one that said "Good ridance to bad rubbish". The N-word post was and still is untouched.

[swissmiss04]

Well then I guess that's different. I still think any post containing racial slurs or sexually derogatory statements should be deleted. We don't need that sh*t. Unfortunately the mods have full right to do pretty much what they want. We're all at their mercy, and if someone doesn't agree w/ the mods decisions he/she is free to not post. Freedom does work both ways, which I think we've forgotten. I think that despite the very apparent anger being slung around, many people on both sides are making valid arguments. But I hope it doesn't turn into some divisive battle royale.

[librasoul22]

Well this is my first foray into this thread...wow.

docetboy, I think you need to evaluate your posts before you hit "Reply." How are you going to tell people NOT to post their opinions...and then turn around and post your own?? Not everyone feels that Thurmond was a "great American" so deal with it.

Also, it kinda makes me uncomfortable to think that people are heralding him as a "great American." If he was great for this country, I am terrified of what is BAD.

He did many positive things....for HIS segment of the population. Yay for him! Unfortunately that excludes a great deal of people, and those people have every right to be unhappy about it.

And omg! He hired ONE black person??? Well let me erase this entire post!! :rolleyes: How many employees has he had TOTAL throughout his LOOOOOONG career? Sigh.

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by damasa
Some of you people in this thread are nucking futs

ROFLMAO -- that is a funny expression that I'll never get tired of hearing!! (oh, for the record, I have heard the term "owning people" in regards to whoopin' em for a long time -- I understand how it could have been misinterpreted in this instance, but I think damasa has explained the real intent (sad picture!!) )

361 times I am so glad that I am not the one being bashed for something!!

*winks to kitso* and walking away....

[AlphaGamDiva]

lol....yeah, anyone taking damasa seriously is just funny in itself! ;)

you luv me, blaine, don't play! :D

[damasa]

Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva


you luv me, blaine, don't play! :D

yea, just as much as the fleas of 100 camels infesting my pubic area.....

[AlphaGamDiva]

Originally posted by damasa
yea, just as much as the fleas of 100 camels infesting my pubic area.....


after having them for so long, i guess you would get attached.... :p

you LOSE!

[damasa]

Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva
after having them for so long, i guess you would get attached.... :p

you LOSE!

=

http://www.brawl-hall.com/gallery/data/media/5/pointless.jpg

[AlphaGamDiva]

oh blaine....you really should go on the road with this humor of your's....seriously......it's just that great. :p

;)

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by librasoul22
And omg! He hired ONE black person??? Well let me erase this entire post!! :rolleyes: How many employees has he had TOTAL throughout his LOOOOOONG career? Sigh.
In fairness, the stories I read say he hired THE FIRST black staffer of any Southern Senator -- not that he hired ONE. I have no idea how many he did or didn't hire. It also says he was the driving guy behind Justice Clarence Thomas for the Supreme Court, voted in favor of Martin Luther King's birthday as Federal holiday, pushed through the first black Federal Judge in the South among other things.

Frankly, I never liked the guy much, but I don't think it is entirely fair to hold the way he was a half century ago, when social mores were totally different in the whole country not to mention the South where he grew up against him now.

The whole country has changed dramatically in that amount of time -- I'm willing to believe that the late Senator might have also.

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
...It also says he was the driving guy behind Justice Clarence Thomas for the Supreme Court...


This right here is enough to make me dislike Strom forever. Believe me, Clarence is only black on the OUTSIDE. I have to go now, but if anyone wants to hijack the thread a bit with me, I will post some info on Mr. Thomas later. Or maybe I will just start a whole new thread, lol.

[Tom Earp]

Strom Thurmond was one of the most driving forces of the Government of the USA!

He was a Dixiecrat and supposedly changed!

Whether he Hired 1 or more Blacks in his offce is signicant in his time of Power!

Right or wrong, he was one powerful SOB in OUR Govt! He did change the face of Our Govt. Not because of his reformation and beleifs for Blacks Rights!

I never liked him because of the Power that he had!

When you Political ego maniacs get over Rep and Dem. maybe you can figure out it doesnot make any difference what name they go under! They are the POWER and beleive in The POWER!

Screw us the Members of America!

How many Pour Congress Men Do You Know!!!!!????

Dont even get me started on the Kennedys!!!!!

Last Good Pres. --- Harry Truman!!!!!:cool:

[RedefinedDiva]

This thread was dead and done and someone had to revive it....
Well, if you want the discussion to continue, so be it.

Here's a little food for thought: What if there was this girl that you know from school who beats your ass everyday as you walk home? Starting in kindergarten, all the way through college, she beats your ass. I mean, she beats the hell out of you. You want to fight back, but you feel helpless. She sometimes has friends who help her whip your ass. You don't bother calling the police on her because most of the firce consists of her friends and family. Her dad is even the police chief. They won't arrest her. They just call it "horseplay" among young kids. But, one day, after 17 years of whipping your ass, she realizes that you are getting a little bit taller and have been taking karate classes. You have friends and family that are joining the police force. She knows that she may start getting in trouble if she continues to beat you up. So, she brings you a bouquet of roses and a batch of your favorite cookies and says, "I'm sorry, DeltAlum. Let's be friends." Is all forgiven just because she brings you flowers?

In your perfect world, you probably would. But, how can someone make up for your torture and anguish of 17 years with cookies and flowers? THEY CAN'T!! When your back is against a wall, you will pull out all of the stops. Just like voting on some lousy ALREADY ACTIVATED Voting Rights Act and hiring "the first African-American committee member." For those that have requested more recent votes, here they are:

Voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on setting aside 10% of highway funds for minorities & women. (Mar 1998)
Voted YES on ending special funding for minority & women-owned business. (Oct 1997)
Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
Voted NO on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)
Voted YES on banning affirmative action hiring with federal funds. (Jul 1995)

Just to name a few.... Now, where is it that he has been trying to help "us" in RECENT years?

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by librasoul22
This right here is enough to make me dislike Strom forever. Believe me, Clarence is only black on the OUTSIDE. I have to go now, but if anyone wants to hijack the thread a bit with me, I will post some info on Mr. Thomas later. Or maybe I will just start a whole new thread, lol.

They can't handle this Thurmond thread! Don't get started on Thomas! They aren't ready....

[steelepike]

Bring it.

[adduncan]

I have no idea whether Thurmond or any other racist changed their views on racism throughout their life. I am really not going to comment whether someone is only black/white/green/whatever "on the outside". But I have a question that popped up in my head based on this discussion.

I've got the impression from all of these discussions that if a racist of any type learns that their views are wrong, and tries to make amends and turn over a new leaf, it won't matter. They will never be "forgiven" (if that's even the right term) and they will always be branded a racist for the rest of their lives and beyond and nothing they ever say or do will change that.

The question is: is this true?
If not, what can a former racist do to show once and for all they've changed their ways?

I'm looking forward to some profound insights on this.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)
:)

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by adduncan
I have no idea whether Thurmond or any other racist changed their views on racism throughout their life. I am really not going to comment whether someone is only black/white/green/whatever "on the outside". But I have a question that popped up in my head based on this discussion.

I've got the impression from all of these discussions that if a racist of any type learns that their views are wrong, and tries to make amends and turn over a new leaf, it won't matter. They will never be "forgiven" (if that's even the right term) and they will always be branded a racist for the rest of their lives and beyond and nothing they ever say or do will change that.

The question is: is this true?
If not, what can a former racist do to show once and for all they've changed their ways?

I'm looking forward to some profound insights on this.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)
:)

Good question Adrienne.

Great question. IMHO, I think that if a person wants to truly repent of past sins because they have changed, then first, you must apologize and seek forgiveness from the person that you wronged.

That was something that Strom never did, which is probably the reason why a lot of people believe that his "change of heart" was not brought on by his convictions, but moreso motivated by political gain and popularity.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
That was something that Strom never did, which is probably the reason why a lot of people believe that his "change of heart" was not brought on by his convictions, but moreso motivated by political gain and popularity.

I think many people forget that Strom never apologized for being the way he was; in fact, someone else brought it up to me very recently. Yes, he did hire one black staffer, and did some things to attract a black vote. It is my belief that he did this because where he didn't have to do anything to make himself attractive to black voters before, the post-Civil Rights movement era made it imperative for him and his peers to cater to African-Americans--hence the token hirings and actions. In order to remain in the Senate for as long as he did, some sort of change--real or superficial--was necessary.

[enlightenment06]

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/bo/2003/bo030707.gif

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/bo/2003/bo030708.gif

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/bo/2003/bo030709.gif

[enlightenment06]

Originally posted by adduncan
I have no idea whether Thurmond or any other racist changed their views on racism throughout their life. I am really not going to comment whether someone is only black/white/green/whatever "on the outside". But I have a question that popped up in my head based on this discussion.

I've got the impression from all of these discussions that if a racist of any type learns that their views are wrong, and tries to make amends and turn over a new leaf, it won't matter. They will never be "forgiven" (if that's even the right term) and they will always be branded a racist for the rest of their lives and beyond and nothing they ever say or do will change that.

The question is: is this true?
If not, what can a former racist do to show once and for all they've changed their ways?

I'm looking forward to some profound insights on this.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)
:)

I think for someone who was so identified with racism as Strom Thurmond was, they're going to have to go to the other end of the spectrum to prove they've changed. It's not enough to say "my bad, just won't do it again." You've got to right those wrongs. Hiring one black staffer, voting for the King Holiday, and some of the other stuff Strom Thurmond did just wasn't enough. Those are political moves. I'll give you an example, Minister Louis Farrakhan no longer says white people are devils. In fact, just about every speech I've heard from him since he became ill he has talked about how we're all one people, and how we need to come together, ALL people. That was part of what the Million Family March was about. So yes, someone can change, but you really have to prove yourself.

[enlightenment06]

Let me ask another question:

If Strom Thurmond really changed, why did he...

switch to the Republican Party

support Richard Nixon who ran on a "Silent Majority" campaign, which was really like Strom's campaing only repackaged

come to be known as one of the architects of the modern Republican party which, during the last presidential election, garnered less than 5% of African-American support?

Just something to think about...

And another thing...for some of us we live in a different reality. The term "Great American" comes with caution, for far too many "Great Americans" have been the cause of our misery detriment. Being Black and patriotic is a double-edged sword. We love it because it is home. Talk of freedom and equality signal empty words because we haven't seen it yet. It is ONLY in the past thirty years or so that we have allowed to become a part of mainstream U.S. society, and we're still struggling with that. You may see that it's been 50 years or so since the last "Civi Rights Movement", but we see 500 years of catchin' hell. Hope that can shed some insight.

For further understand I invite you to listen to the last verse in Talib Kweli's song "The Proud" which is tack 11 off his latest CD Quality. Also check out "Mr. N*igga" off Mos Def's album Black on Both Sides. I think it's track 15. Peace

[sugar and spice]

I love The Boondocks. :p

Anyway, I think step #1 to showing the world you're not racist would be to make a heartfelt public apology. That seems like the logical first step, and it was one that Thurmond never made.

After that, it really depends on degree. I mean, someone who just used the n-word every once in while and made some derogatory statements about blacks to their friends while in the comfort of their own home, but later realized that they were wrong -- they have less to make up for than somebody whose racist actions helped lead to the death of at least one black man, you know?

[steelepike]

Oh well no matter what you say i still beleive he was a great man. And i can't wait till I see him in heaven so we can laugh about all this controversy.