AIs: "First meeting, now what?" [Archive]

navane

04-23-2003, 09:01 PM

Well, as everyone knows, I am a PNAM myself. If you go to an event at an alumna's house, then I would write a thank you note to the alumna association president AND to the woman who hosted the party. The same thing goes for if it was a collegiate chapter you participated with.

Or, you can try some of the following to keep your name fresh in someone's mind without being a pest:

- e-mail your contact person with holiday greetings ("I just wanted to drop you a line to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving/New Year/Independence Day...")

- e-mail your alumna and/or collegiate contact on the organization's Founders' Day to wish them the best on their special day. It shows them that you're knowledgable about the sorority's facts and were obviously interested enough to find out.

- e-mail your collegiate contact to congratulate them on their successful rush. Of course, it helps if they have a website or you've heard from a reliable source that they did well!

Yes, these ideas allow you to show interest and keep your name in front of the other person without sounding impatient or odd. But, frankly, I really *am* interested in this group, it's history and the individual ladies - my notes are always sincere!

Also, there is nothing wrong with the occassional straight-forward follow-up asking about how the AI process is coming along.

Now, with "sorority #1" I did actually send a real thank you card to the ladies via the post because I knew the address. With "sorority #2" I did not have that information. Here are three samples of actual e-mails I have sent with minor adjustments:

Non-confrontational follow-up:

Hello!

Wow! It sure has been quite a while since we last spoke! I hope you've had a
great start to the new year!

You may recall, I spoke with you a couple months ago about my interest in XYZ's alumnae initate program. I just wanted to check in with you and see if there is anything I might be able to help out with. Of course, there's always the possibility that it just isn't a good time. That's ok too! Please do let me know if there is anything I can do. Thanks!

{Mynamehere}

-----

A thank you note after a meeting:

{Nameofalumna},

Thank you so much for taking the time out to find a time and place to meet with me. My confidence in XYZ is constantly growing thanks to friendly ladies such as yourself.

Again I am really glad that I had a chance to finally meet you - I had fun! I will definitely keep in touch while in England!

{Mynamehere}

-----

Random greeting:

Hi {collegiatepresident} and the ladies of {chapterdesignation}!

The other day I read that {insertdate} is XYZ's Founders' Day.

Happy Founders' Day! Best Wishes and I hope XYZ has {howevermany} more!

A Friend of XYZ,

{Mynamehere}

------

Again, I cannot stress enough how important it is that you actually mean what you say. No one wants to be strung along by someone who is acting all fake. In my case, I think that "sorority #2" (referred to as XYZ in the above examples) and the alumna and collegiate members are just super-terrific. I really can't wait to get back to the US so I can call them up and hopefully resume the process. So, in a way, my contacting them is just as much about me expressing to them how much I appreciate them as people as it is about them not forgetting who I am. Does that make sense?

It is a fine line to walk when an alumna flakes and doesn't call you back when she said she would. Sometimes it's necessary to be a mild pain in the rear end in order to get a result. hehehe I recently tried a strategy with a non-greek related issue which seems to work. I couldn't get a person to respond to my e-mails. So, I kept the content of the e-mails positive and upbeat as always, but I changed the subject/title as a subtle way of saying "stop ignoring me". I titled them like this:

- HCHS ticket info needed

- HCHS ticket info needed - Attempt #2

- HCHS ticket info needed - Attempt #3

I always get a result by #3. ;) This system has the added bonus of helping me keep track of when I sent e-mails.

Maybe you won't like any of my ideas. That's ok! They worked for me but they may not work for everyone. :)

.....Kelly :)

DGMarie

04-24-2003, 12:27 AM

My experience was kind of like Sistermadly. After the first event, the next day they sent me the complete calendar of events and invited me to them. The president of the group emailed me often. She was very pleasant. I went to the next event and then would get a follow up "nice to see you there" email from the chapter. It was kind of like they were rushing ME.

I would definately support sending a nice follow up letter (or email). I prefer something handwritten since it shows more effort.

I would say the key thing if you don't hear back right away is that you don't want to cross the line from PNAM to sorority stalker! If you don't hear back after a few attempts, it might be time to move on.

SmartBlondeGPhB

04-24-2003, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by DGMarie
My experience was kind of like Sistermadly. After the first event, the next day they sent me the complete calendar of events and invited me to them. The president of the group emailed me often. I went to the next event and then would get a follow up "nice to see you there" email from the chapter. It was kind of like they were rushing ME.

Sorry, but I just have to comment. THAT'S the way it should be in my opinion (as someone's who's been in the president's shoes). If you are going to make the effort, then the alumnae Chapter ought to make the same effort.

I would say send a note to thank them, ask what's coming up. We pretty much won't do much after the Susan G. Komen Race in June, but we do have happy hours during the summer (or try).

If they say thay won't be doing anything until Sept and nothing's planned yet then make a note to contact her in August and see what the schedule is.

CutiePie2000

04-24-2003, 11:40 AM

Hi Adrienne,
All of the above ladies give great advice. I like the idea of handwritten note cards and thank you letters - the art of beautiful letter writing is somewhat lost now in this Information Age.

I was part of a failed colony, so I already had a connection to Delta Gamma, which made things a bit easier. I had met several National Officers who later sponsored me for membership, so that made it fairly straightforward.

That being said, I would say, always send a thank you note after an event that you've been invited to and attended. And if things seem quiet in summer time, I would also send a note out about a month to a month and a half before "recruitment". The sorority will have recruitment of new members on their mind, and hopefully they will be thinking to recruit an alumna intiate too, not only collegians.

Hang in there...it took a longer time for some ladies but eventually they found their home.

ztawinthropgirl

04-24-2003, 11:48 AM

Are you talking about becoming an alumnae member of an alumnae group without being a colliegate member prior? Or are you talking about becoming a member of an alumae group WITH being a prior collegiate member? The reason I am asking is because I hate to be the bearer of bad news is that it's very rare to be a PNAM without being a collegiate member prior.

CutiePie2000

04-24-2003, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by scpiano211
Are you talking about becoming an alumnae member of an alumnae group without being a colliegate member prior? Or are you talking about becoming a member of an alumae group WITH being a prior collegiate member? The reason I am asking is because I hate to be the bearer of bad news is that it's very rare to be a PNAM without being a collegiate member prior.

We are talking about ALUMNAE INITIATES (i.e. women who were initiated after college), not collegiate members turned alumnae members.

A Roll Call of Alumnae Initiates and Prospective Alumnae Initiates! (http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26873)

My Advice to Prospective Alumnae Initiates (http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20287)

Yet another AI (http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30441) thread

Ginger

04-24-2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by scpiano211
I hate to be the bearer of bad news is that it's very rare to be a PNAM without being a collegiate member prior.

Actually, if you read through some of the Alumnae Initiation posts on this board, you'll find that many of our dear GCers have become members through Alumnae Initiation. It is something that many GLOs are either opening themselves up to, or, if they were previously open to it, making their members more aware!

adduncan

04-24-2003, 12:16 PM

Great insights, people!

I admit, I have some issues w/ patience. As I've told some dear GC friends, if I don't have enough stress in my life, sometimes I go out and find some! :p

One of the things I've learned early on and has helped me out in the process is to read first and see which organizations are open to AI, and to what extent, and which are not. Some orgs are very open and gracious and welcoming to someone interested in AI--at least they are willing to hear these women out and give them a chance before saying "yes" or "no." Others are more reserved: they are open to the process, but will be politely direct and say that they do not practice it frequently--but they will still listen to you before deciding one way or the other. Still others are so closed off to the concept that they can't even wrap their minds around it. Fortunately, those groups are easy to spot. For PNAMs who are approaching GLOs, it's obviously best to avoid them.

Whatever a group's policy is, the AI trend is growing, not shrinking. The time is now to start thinking about policies regarding the process and clarifying them in public so everyone knows what they want and gets where they need to be!

Even though the waters are uncharted for me, I feel I'm on the right course and I've got everyone at GC to thank for it!

Adrienne (PNAM 2003)
:D

ztawinthropgirl

04-24-2003, 12:24 PM

In my sorority we just don't do it very often unless this person will absolutely make a difference in the alumnae world. And when we do initiate this person she is usually a legacy that never joined a sorority.

CutiePie2000

04-24-2003, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
In my sorority we just don't do it very often unless this person will absolutely make a difference in the alumnae world. And when we do initiate this person she is usually a legacy that never joined a sorority.

Yes, you're right. We actually do know about Zeta Tau Alpha's policy as we have discussed it before! :D
http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27937&perpage=15&pagenumber=4

I see that you're a relative newcomer, so I thought I would point the way to that thread for you! :D :D

aopinthesky

04-24-2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
In my sorority we just don't do it very often unless this person will absolutely make a difference in the alumnae world. And when we do initiate this person she is usually a legacy that never joined a sorority.

This is probably why you don't realize that other sororities have very active Alum Initiate programs and do it regularly. Some groups encourage it, others do not. There was a recent thread (as was pointed out) that left me with the impression that ZTA does not do it very often. However, AOII (for one) actively seeks out women who are past college age and who can contribute to local chapters or be of service some other way. We have had two articles recently in our magazine regarding this very issue and how important those initiates can be.

cutiepatootie

04-24-2003, 01:50 PM

I have to say my exp to be initiated with Alpha Phi was pretty quick.

I contacted A Phi Exec Office last May with a email truly from my heart telling them how much i was interested in A Phi because i had narrowed it down to A Phi and another XYZ group.

As you can see i kept coming back to my favorite one!:D
With that, EO fwded my email to my local alum chapter here in SO Cal and they invited me the next week to a pottery painting party and offered me a bid that night! Actually they already said they were going to initiated me and had the form to fill out that night to send to EO.

We just missed the spring initation by a week so i had to wait til fall initation in Nov. to be initiated and that is where it all began......6 months total( with summer added in and a few months of the fall quarter in there).

When i left college in the early 90s...many and i do mean MANY sororities did not offer alum initiations. Unheard of! If i knew about A Phi back then i would of approached them a lot sooner. But i believe that God sends us on a path and that timing is key.
What i am trying to say is that "then and now" time changes. who was not open to it then is open now and they are embracing women after college to join their sisterhoods.
I just wish the ones who are not open or the ones who are skeptical of it would see how wonderful an opp it could be for them and for women who want to be a part of a sorority.

Sistermadly, Midwesterngirl, Valkyrie and myself are some of GC Alum Initiates that were initated into Alpha Phi and i speak for myself and i hope for them in saying it is the best decisions of our lives!

Good luck in all you do and hope you find a home soon!

Laura:)

ztawinthropgirl

04-24-2003, 02:20 PM

My views are that why would someone WANT to join after college? I mean the sisterly bonds start early in college and the AIs won't feel the same bonds since they didn't pledge while a collegeiate. They won't have the same memories nor will they truly feel the same strength of sisters because as a collegiate one leans on their sisters much more so than an AI would. We have much more stress than an AI. They have never paid $330 per semester out of pocket. With us, alumnaes pay $10 per year whereas collegiates pay $660. To me it's a little unbalanced especially with dues.

adduncan

04-24-2003, 02:23 PM

scpiano,

Your questions are already answered in the threads that CutiePie2000 posted earlier in this thread.

Please do a search, or browse the Alumni Involvement forum if you are interested in understanding the mindset behind AIs and PNAMs.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)
:)

CutiePie2000

04-24-2003, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
In my sorority we just don't do it very often unless this person will absolutely make a difference in the alumnae world.
I don't think ANY sorority will initiate anyone who will just sit there doing nothing, but wear letters. FWIW: I was approached to be the Panhellenic Advisor at my local campus, as DG is not there and therefore, I will be "unbiased". If my work does not take me to a different city by September, I will DEFINITELY be doing just that. I love this quote from the Delta Gamma website:
"We have many outstanding alumnae initiates serving as chapter advisers and PROs, or leading Foundation projects and alumnae groups. They have taken their pledge of lifetime commitment seriously. It is an honor to be a Delta Gamma, not an honorarium. " The DG AI women that I know DO take their commitment to Delta Gamma very seriously.

Originally posted by scpiano211
My views are that why would someone WANT to join after college?
Networking, friendships. I have met and befriended DGs all over my country and also in Australia. I've been pretty mobile these past 2 years, living in 4 different cities. The constant throughout? My Delta Gamma sisters and friends!

I mean the sisterly bonds start early in college and the AIs won't feel the same bonds since they didn't pledge while a collegeiate. They won't have the same memories nor will they truly feel the same strength of sisters because as a collegiate one leans on their sisters much more so than an AI would.

I have to respectfully disagree with you there. Many women do not continue to live in the same cities where they attended college; they move around to different cities, take jobs, etc. and join an alumnae chapter in different cities. Consequently they meet other Alumnae Women who would have pledged the same sorority, but a different chapter. Even though they would be sisters in the same sorority, they would not have bonded with each other during the college years as they were in different chapters, different campuses. I do feel that the bonds can occur in the alumnae arena.

We have much more stress than an AI. They have never paid $330 per semester out of pocket. With us, alumnaes pay $10 per year whereas collegiates pay $660. To me it's a little unbalanced especially with dues.
I can see what you're saying, but I know women who were initiated as collegians who do not pay their alumnae dues now. I was an alumna initiate and I plan to pay my dues faithfully until the day I die. I think it will all "balance out" in the end!

aopinthesky

04-24-2003, 02:40 PM

>>>We have much more stress than an AI. They have never paid $330 per semester out of pocket. With us, alumnaes pay $10 per year whereas collegiates pay $660. To me it's a little unbalanced especially with dues. <<<

So, are you saying that since an AI has not paid their dues, both figuratively and literally, they should not get the experience? I can understand your outlook on this issue since your sorority is not one that supports much alum initiation. However, the groups that do support it have good reasons for doing so - most of which have been enumerated above. I don't think that your mind will be changed by debating the issue in this thread. Please don't continue to rain on the parades of those groups and individuals who found each other after college and are so happy about it.

CutiePie2000

04-24-2003, 02:43 PM

Well said, aopinthesky.
I also wanted to say that alumnae initiates are not going ANYWHERE, so the detractors best get used to it.
Thank you.

ztawinthropgirl

04-24-2003, 03:05 PM

I also do not appreciate someone calling out my letters when I specifically did not include them. These are my personal thoughts and opinions and not those of my sorority. So, do not rain on my sorority's parade, OK?

aopinthesky

04-24-2003, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
I also do not appreciate someone calling out my letters when I specifically did not include them. These are my personal thoughts and opinions and not those of my sorority. So, do not rain on my sorority's parade, OK?

What?

CutiePie2000

04-24-2003, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by aopinthesky
What?

What you said!

ztawinthropgirl

04-24-2003, 03:17 PM

aopinthesky posted this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by scpiano211
In my sorority we just don't do it very often unless this person will absolutely make a difference in the alumnae world. And when we do initiate this person she is usually a legacy that never joined a sorority.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is probably why you don't realize that other sororities have very active Alum Initiate programs and do it regularly. Some groups encourage it, others do not. There was a recent thread (as was pointed out) that left me with the impression that ZTA does not do it very often. However, AOII (for one) actively seeks out women who are past college age and who can contribute to local chapters or be of service some other way. We have had two articles recently in our magazine regarding this very issue and how important those initiates can be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't call out your letters so don't call out mine.

aopinthesky

04-24-2003, 03:20 PM

If I have offended any ZTA members out there, I certainly did not intend to. I incorrectly assumed, I suppose, that the reason scpiano did not comprehend AI is because she had not been exposed to the idea. As some are aware, a previous thread went into some detail about how ZTA does not regularly do AI and only in specific circumstances.
The reason that I see AI favorably is because AOII does support it and I often read things in our magazine and on our website that illustrate the benefits on both sides.
I believe that we form our opinions where we live - I live in the AOII world of AI, scpiano lives in the ZTA world where it isn't really done. That doesn't mean that one of us is right and one is wrong. However, when I read these AI threads and see the sheer glee in someone's post when they are intiated or when they get a hoped for bid, it is very hard to find the negative in it.

ztawinthropgirl

04-24-2003, 03:29 PM

thank you. I just didn't want to drag MY specific letters in it. Even if I weren't in my particular sorority I would probably see it the same way because I know lots of people not join because they didn't join in college. I didn't even really know it existed until we initiated a lady as an alumnae and I didn't agree with initiating those out of school. To me, people can see it as an "easy in" if they don't join while in college and they'll in turn pay much cheaper dues. Also, I just don't see it as fair to people like myself that had to go through Recruitment 2 times to get into a sorority. I mean I have to work a job, maintain 15 to 17 hours worth of school, volunteer, and do things with my sorority. Whereas someone that's an alumnae, they will just deal with a possible career and a possible family.

adduncan

04-24-2003, 03:31 PM

ztawinthropgirl

04-24-2003, 03:36 PM

Excuse me I have manners and no my friends I did not hijack your thread. Can I not join any threads on this stupid chatboard thing? I mean it'd be pointless to be a member and not join a thread and respond to the statements on the thread. Also, I am not a rude person I was just trying to understand why someone would want to join an organization after college when they had full access to Greek Life in college. Maybe you guys should learn how to answer questions without mannerless and rude responses.

And no I am not talking about anything in hypothetical terms. I really do have to work, maintain 15-17 hours, volunteer, and do things with my sorority. I do not think it's fair for us collegiates to pay such high dues and AIs can go in and not pay such high dues. I mean once I graduate I will have invested over $2000 in this thing and it's just not fair.

aopinthesky

04-24-2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
Maybe you guys should learn how to answer questions without mannerless and rude responses.

AIs can go in and not pay such high dues. I mean once I graduate I will have invested over $2000 in this thing and it's just not fair.

I did not see where you asked any questions and I believe that your position (uncharitable as it is) is very clear.

SmartBlondeGPhB

04-24-2003, 03:55 PM

Sorry, but I personally find that statement offensive.

Yes, we do pay cheaper "official" dues - ours are $35 a year I think. HOWEVER, a number of alumnae (myself included) give a good amount of money voluntarily to our sorority (through the Foundation). I know for us, the money pays for many things that benefit our collegians.

We have a number of very active AI's in our organization (and especially in our Foundation) who are doing a number of wonderful of things that benefit the collegians more than the alumnae.

I also will echo what has already been said. Most of the women I was active with in college now have nothing to do with Gamma Phi (probably 90%+) so a college experience is not a big endorsement in my book. But, our newest AI (as of a few weeks ago) was contributing to our alumnae chapter before she was even initiated.

Sistermadly

04-24-2003, 04:04 PM

Edited because I've calmed down now. :cool:

peachy

04-24-2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
I mean I have to work a job, maintain 15 to 17 hours worth of school, volunteer, and do things with my sorority. Whereas someone that's an alumnae, they will just deal with a possible career and a possible family.

scpiano,

Sad to say, stress doesn't end when you get your diploma. Examples include having a family/raising kids, having a full time job, paying school loans, paying a mortgage, forking over $$$ when the roof is leaking, taking care of aging parents... it never ends. The stress says with you; the sources of stress are what change.

peachy

amycat412

04-24-2003, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
. Also, I just don't see it as fair to people like myself that had to go through Recruitment 2 times to get into a sorority. I mean I have to work a job, maintain 15 to 17 hours worth of school, volunteer, and do things with my sorority. Whereas someone that's an alumnae, they will just deal with a possible career and a possible family.

scpiano-- Do not assume that AI is the easy way in. Look into the reasons the AIs did not join as collegians. Perhaps there was no greek life at their college, perhaps a death of a parent soon before recruitment caused them to not have a good recruitment, perhaps they could not afford the dues, yet longed for the experience, perhaps they were a pledge that for one reason or another never initiated. I don't know of any AIs either personally or on this site that sought it out as an "easy" way in. In almost all cases, their search for a sorority that fit them was longer and more frought with difficulty than traditional recruitment.

Also, enjoy the relative calm of school, work and sorority. It gets much worse managing your time and balancing all aspects of your life when you're an alum. Work over 40 hours a week, take a class, volunteer AND balance relationship, family and friends. It is not easy. You will have a leg up on time management with the schedule you have now, but it does not get any easier than what you have now.

greeklawgirl

04-24-2003, 04:13 PM

I don't know how many people are aware of this, but Alpha Gamma Delta's current International President is an alumna initiate.

She's been a good leader for the Fraternity and I, for one, am proud of the fact that we welcome alumna initiates with open arms. They are my sisters, just like any others.

IMO, one alumna initiate who gives a lifetime of support to Alpha Gam is worth 10 collegiates who disappear after graduation and are never heard from again. Being a member of a fraternity is a LIFETIME committment...if you are willing to make that committment, I don't care if you initiate at 18, 38 or 78.

amycat412

04-24-2003, 04:15 PM

well said maria!

bearal

04-24-2003, 04:16 PM

I don't want this thread to yield bad feelings! Obviously everyone has their own opinions regarding alumna initiation.

Believe me, throughout my AI process I was constantly concerned about meeting members who disapproved of of alumna seeking membership into their organization. I, in turn, thought that perhaps I had missed out on some of the sorority experience because I did not join as a collegiate. But, thankfully, my fears were unwarranted. EVERY member I met, collegiate and alumna, were excited for me and welcomed me with open arms. They reminded me that the collegiate experience lasts only 4 years; the alum experience is for the rest of your life.

I don't think of the AI process as an easy way into a sorority. Each alumna initiate has different experiences; some of the ladies had a longer process than others, because things did not work out with one organization, etc. In a way the process is kind of like rush, since the PNAM and the members ensure that there's a good fit.

scpiano211,
I've encountered 1 person in the local alum chapter who shared your sentiments on AI. She in now way meant it against me, but she was concerned about how the sorority experience could be diluted through the alumna initiation process. I know you do not agree with the idea of alumna initiation, but I hope you will regard the alumnae initiates of your organization as full-fledged members and great asset to your sisterhood.

fire1977

04-24-2003, 04:20 PM

I think it is also important to note that the reason collegiate dues are so high is because:
1) insurance-we all know that premiums are insane for greek groups.
2) collegiates are the ones who reap the maximum benefits of the national organization; convention, mailings, publications, manuals, loans, etc.
And those are just two reasons.

It may be difficult to understand, as a collegiate why someone would want to join an organization after collegiate years, but from what I've seen alum initiates are the most active. We even have an alum initiate on our executive council. In their defense, I read the post and these ladies were quite civil and helpful.

My best advice to new greek chatters is to read your post carefully because sometimes the way we intended something with the way we would read and say things and the way it appears in print does not exactly correspond. I understand that you were trying to present your view, but I'm sure that we could turn this into a civilized discussion of why alumnae initiation exists, rather than attack each other because we may not understand each others different views.

Tom Earp

04-24-2003, 04:39 PM

scpiano211, this is not just a rare phenom among Soroitys!

There may be many reasons that A I has becime a big factor among Greek Orgs.

This honor to become a member of a Greek Organization is not handed out willy-nilly just to boost numbers!

As has been stated on this thread, many A I members become very instrumental to Their Organizations.

If you XYZ group does not, that is fine. So be it. If your feelings are your feelings, then so be it!

If you want to come on G C and be a member, then you may state your views as we all do. But do not keep antigonizing and saying the same thing over and over!

It has been pointed out that some of the things you discuss on this thread have been discussed on previous theads!

I as the Founding Member of my Local who affiliated am Proud to have A I , not to just add members to the rolls!

Harry S. Truman was an A I member of LXA, and held it in his heart till he died!

Remember, there may have been circumstances that prevented a person from becoming a member in the good ole days of college, but yet still had the calling to be part of something they felt very dear to!:)

You have your opinions, and Many of us have Ours! Si?

amycat412

04-24-2003, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Sistermadly
Edited because I've calmed down now. :cool:

Aww Sistermadly--I wish you hadn't deleted that, it was an excellent post.

pinkyphimu

04-24-2003, 04:54 PM

first of all, i am not an alum initiate, but i can see the attraction to it. there are many women who for whatever reason, do not join glos while in college. quite honestly, i have to quote greeklawgirl bc i agree 100%...

one alumna initiate who gives a lifetime of support to Alpha Gam is worth 10 collegiates who disappear after graduation and are never heard from again. Being a member of a fraternity is a LIFETIME committment...if you are willing to make that committment, I don't care if you initiate at 18, 38 or 78.

there are tons of collegiate members who disapper after graduation. of the 11 women in my pledge class....only 2 of us are involved in an alum group. of the women who graduated a few years before and a few years after me....i can only think of 8 who are still involved. in the boston area alone, there are approximately 5 phi kappa's and i am the only one involved in the alum group. the ratios are not that hot! for the people who are not involved...they got "burned out in college" or sororities are just a collegiate thing. for me, phi mu is forever. being an alum affords me so many opportunites....including the lack of drama that collegiate life has...as well as many rewards. i have met some really great phi mu's from many different chapters and i am happy to call them friends. there are several of my friends that i would love to see initiated into phi mu!!! i think they would be great assets to the group.

so i guess, my question is this....if sorority/ fraternity membership is for a lifetime.....why does it matter if you were initiated as a collegiate or as an alum?

Tom Earp

04-24-2003, 05:07 PM

amycat, I agree totally on that one!:)

pinkyphimu! Yea for you!

How many times have Collegieat people join a Greek Org. cause that is the thing to do? How many Graduate from College and you never hear from them again?

Ripleys beleive it or not!:mad:

I was initiated into LXA in 1966, and I am still a member of LXA and will always be, or I damn sure would not be doing what I am doing with My International, My Local Chapter, Or be on GC!

We all have the Love our Organizations or We would not be here, or trying to join as A I members.

It is amazing, that the A I Members have to work twice as hard to become members! But, who does a lot more and stays more active than A I membrs?

Do they pay less as Members of ABC? Heck, I do not pay My Internationsl a Nickle!

I donate to them. Do I pay local Alum dues! No! We are all doing this out of our own pockets and having a heck of a great time just

being with Brothers!

Ah well, the sun always rises in the East doesnt it?:D

KillarneyRose

04-24-2003, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
To me, people can see it as an "easy in" if they don't join while in college and they'll in turn pay much cheaper dues. Also, I just don't see it as fair to people like myself that had to go through Recruitment 2 times to get into a sorority. I mean I have to work a job, maintain 15 to 17 hours worth of school, volunteer, and do things with my sorority. Whereas someone that's an alumnae, they will just deal with a possible career and a possible family.

Is this a "real" post or is someone joking around?!?!?!?!?

It's probably a joke, but on the off chance it is meant to be taken seriously I have to respond :)

To me, people can see it as an "easy in" if they don't join while in college and they'll in turn pay much cheaper dues. Also, I just don't see it as fair to people like myself that had to go through Recruitment 2 times to get into a sorority.
When I went through formal rush, all I had to do was sit there, act interested and look cute. It wasn't exactly a difficult situation. AI candidates have to sell themselves to the sorority, not the other way around.

I mean, I have to work a job, maintain 15 to 17 hours worth of school, volunteer and do things with my sorority. Whereas someone that's an alumnae, they will just deal with a possible career and a possible family.
Yep, I'm sure women who are juggling a career and a family have SO much extra time :rolleyes:

KillarneyRose

04-24-2003, 05:53 PM

Oh, and one more thing...

As far as missing out on "bonding" with other members of a sorority if one doesn't attend college with them goes, that doesn't make any sense to me. There is only one other member from my chapter in the alumnae chapter I belong to (and she graduated several years after me so I didn't know her back then), but I don't feel any less of a bond with my sisters because they didn't go to my college.

If anything, it makes things like Founders Day even more special because it's gratifying (to me, at least) to go through a ceremony I learned at a different time and a different place than the other sisters and see that we all learned the same thing.

ztawinthropgirl

04-24-2003, 06:04 PM

I am sure they have more time than I do. My mother did.

#1: I am not going to have a family simply because the job I will get will not be suitable for a family. I am joining the CIA after I graduate from graduate school.

#2: As for the mortgage, most people that have one have jobs that pay much more than mine does and they work the same amount of hours as I do but don't have to go to school.

#3: As much as school was very much of a choice for me as it was a necessity, it is a CHOICE to have a family. People do NOT have to get married and/or have kids.

#4: No, shockingly, I will not be joining an alumnae group BECAUSE OF MY JOB for heaven's sake.

#5: Most people don't have as many things going on in their lives as much as a college student does. They have a family and maybe a job. WOO HOO! Wish I only had 2 things that stressed me out on a daily basis. The other things that stress people out are self-imposed.

#6: I have to have a job (to pay for school stuff), I have to go to school because it surprisingly enough isn't the 1950s anymore where the woman is severely opressed by her man, and yes, I chose the sorority stuff because I wanted to have a life outside the work and school realms.

#7: My parents pay for tuition so loans from my college will not be seeking payments for that. I have to pay for everything else (i.e. car insurance and gas, textbooks, sorority bills, apartment, etc.).

Also, if you want to discuss this further, you can PM me but this is getting ridiculous because all I did was state my opinion and everyone got their panties in a wad.

amycat412

04-24-2003, 06:17 PM

scpiano-- Good Luck w the CIA, that is very impressive.

I must speak to #5. When I was still in school and just out of school I would have thought the same as what you've posted... but as you get older, the responsibilities mount.

I am not married and I do not have any children-- tho I expect both will happen in the next few years.

I work full time, which, requires more than 40 hours a week. I also take two classes to further my writing career. Fit in working out, laundry, grocery shopping, friends, boyfriend, family-- and my daily post today in my journal is all about me whining about how I need more time.

I worked in college too and juggled the same things you have siad you are. It is stressful, but it is MORE stressful once you're out. Married or not. Actually, single is more so in many ways, because you are soley responsible for the rent/mortgage, car, etc.

I am not flaming you. You've not yet lived it, so you cannot know what lies ahead. I wish you the best of luck.

ztawinthropgirl

04-24-2003, 06:33 PM

I have lived extensively because I haven't had the easiest of a life but that's a whole different story that's just not worth getting into. I have had a lot on my plate for a long, long time and hate it when people tell me that I haven't lived yet and don't know what lies ahead of me.

The best thing is that I have survived and am proud to say I am a survivor.

I relish in the fact that I will be the sole person taking on the responsibility of "the real world." As I see it and after all I have been through, I see the things I will be facing as a breeze. I have enough money saved in the bank to pay a hefty down payment on a house and I am only 22. Yes, I will have to make more payments but not many (thank you Lord!) My parents are buying me a new car because the one I have now is really bad. I will have the insurance and taxes to pay on it because my parents are paying it all off as a reward for being the very first person in my family to graduate from college. :D I probably won't have to have a house payment because the CIA will pay for my living quarters and bills associated with it so that money I have in the bank will just be sitting earning a good bit of interest.

kateshort

04-24-2003, 06:40 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scpiano211

#1: I am not going to have a family simply because the job I will get will not be suitable for a family. I am joining the CIA after I graduate from graduate school.

#4: No, shockingly, I will not be joining an alumnae group BECAUSE OF MY JOB for heaven's sake.

Um, as someone who grew up in the DC area and has relatives in many of the agencies down there, I can tell you that being in the CIA doesn't mean that you don't get a life. :)

I mean, most people who participate in alumnae groups do so once or twice a month from September through May. It isn't a once-a-month thing. I believe that since you're in college, you *don't* *know* what the real world is like.

I mean, duh, we've all been there. Even if we weren't in sororities in school, most of us were in some collegiate organizations and balancing work, school, and activities.

I was in a local, and they went national, so I was able to affiliate with ADPi. I haven't been active in any of the three local alum groups for the past two years because I've been working and going to grad school. And, this year, singing in my church choir. I don't have kids yet, because I'm busy enough as it is!

#5: Most people don't have as many things going on in their lives as much as a college student does. They have a family and maybe a job. WOO HOO! Wish I only had 2 things that stressed me out on a daily basis. The other things that stress people out are self-imposed.

I hate to tell you this, but if you have any sort of a life, you will have a lot going on! You won't have the stress of grades, but you will have the stress of having to stay late at jobs during big projects, or the stress of friends having an argument, or the stress of leading some organization or another, whether it's a church group or book club or whatever. Or the stress of losing a job, or not making enough to cover your rent or mortgage payment.

Heck, some people join AI because they *like* being busy! They like both being able to help the community, get to know a group of like-minded people, and help out collegians in the process.

#6: I have to have a job (to pay for school stuff), I have to go to school because it surprisingly enough isn't the 1950s anymore where the woman is severely opressed by her man, and yes, I chose the sorority stuff because I wanted to have a life outside the work and school realms.

Which is the same reason that some people go AI-- they want to have that same life outside of work and family.

Also, if you want to discuss this further, you can PM me but this is getting ridiculous because all I did was state my opinion and everyone got their panties in a wad.

All you did was insult a bunch of people. :) There are ways to state your opinion *nicely*. Instead of being reasoned and polite, you basically accused people of taking the easy way out for joining a sorority. Saying that other people are getting their panties in a wad is not very nice. You might want to check your own underwear, methinks?

ztawinthropgirl

04-24-2003, 07:09 PM

No, my panties are just find. In fact my panties don't even ride up my butt. Maybe you bunch of people are way too sensitive. Plus, I don't beat around the bush nor should I. This is the end of this discussion. If you want to continue this discussion, do NOT include me in it.

DO NOT say anything that might be arugmentative because I am one of those people that has to respond to something like that and like I said I don't want to be involved anymore because this is taking up way too much of my time. Time in which I don't have.

pialpha92

04-24-2003, 07:26 PM

Just so all you AI's know - When I was in college I worked full time, went to school full time, was chapter president, etc. - and I think AI is just fine!!! :D My chapter has initiated 2 (I even initiated one myself ;) ) and to me it is just another opportunity to welcome some more wonderful sisters to the family.

Not everyone has to agree with that of course but I thought I'd throw out my support to all the AI's and PNAM's out there...

now let's all get back to the original topic ....

I'd drop them a note at the beginning of the summer and maybe another one right before recruitment wishing good luck or even offering to help if it feels appropriate.

adduncan

04-24-2003, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by pialpha92
now let's all get back to the original topic ....

I'd drop them a note at the beginning of the summer and maybe another one right before recruitment wishing good luck or even offering to help if it feels appropriate.

Thanx, pialpha both for the support, and for the advice.

It's coming down to how you communicate--and figuring out what is appropriate and what isn't.

I hope to have more progress reports some time soon. I might just have to wait it out through the summer. But hey, I've waited about 15 years, a few more months won't kill me, right?

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)
:D

CutiePie2000

04-24-2003, 07:33 PM

Yes, Adrienne, it might seem like there is not much activity going on in the summertime as people go away in the summer months and what not. However, I think a little friendly "reminder" as to who you are in the form of a beautifully written card or note is always appreciated and welcomed.

bruinaphi

04-24-2003, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
If you want to continue this discussion, do NOT include me in it.
DO NOT say anything that might be arugmentative because I am one of those people that has to respond to something like that and like I said I don't want to be involved anymore because this is taking up way too much of my time. Time in which I don't have.

I assume that you are another personality of a current GC troublemaker, but I will respond anyway since I obviously missed the memo on your appointment as law maker for the Alumni Forum. I assume that because you are new you don't know any better than to come in and criticize other people's membership paths and other organizations' standards for membership. Your posts and approach are not appreciated.

I am not an AI. I pledged before starting college, was very active as a collegiate and am now very active as an alumna. I believe that we need to recruit members who understand that membership is a lifelong commitment -- something you obviously missed out on in your new member ed session.

I have to admit that as a collegiate I didn't understand why anyone would want to partake in AI. As an alumna whose best friends are now members of the same GLO who are all from different chapters or AIs, I don't understand how anyone can berate AI. My best friend in the world is an AI. She lives approximately 3000 miles away from me about 3 days straight driving according to mapquest). She was a member of a colony that didn't get installed before she graduated. She is also now a member of our International Executive Board and numerous committees in our Fraternity. She is the most dedicated Alpha Phi I know.

As for the issue of stress you are in for a rude awakening when you graduate. Right now your stress centers on you. YOUR grades, buying books, paying your rent or dues. What are you going to do when other people rely on you to keep them alive? After all, if you are going to work for the Agency, your every decision could put others in jeopardy. Personally, I think that's a little more stressful than attending college. Maybe I'm delusional.

Regarding bonding, we all hope to live a long time after we graduate from college. My chapter sisters are wonderful people with whom I have a lot of history, but I have many more sisters who have been there for me through much more tragic and trying times in my life. We have vacationed together, worked together, visited one another and cumulatively, probably spent more time together or on the phone than I spent with my chapter sisters when I lived in the chapter house.

Laura

KillarneyRose

04-24-2003, 08:27 PM

I am sure they have more time than I do. My mother did.
Then your mother obviously sat on her a** all day eating Doritos.

#1: I am not going to have a family simply because the job I will get will not be suitable for a family. I am joining the CIA after I graduate from graduate school.
That's well and good, but I know from personal experience that candidates for Central Intelligence Agency training must complete an extensive battery of psychological testing in order to be considered. Perhaps you should work on dislodging that chip on your shoulder before you apply?

#2: As for the mortgage, most people that have one have jobs that pay much more than mine does and they work the same amount of hours as I do but don't have to go to school.
If you can't afford a mortgage, you shouldn't take one on. It's called being "house poor".

#3: As much as school was very much of a choice for me as it was a necessity, it is a CHOICE to have a family. People do NOT have to get married and/or have kids.
Many people feel as strongly about marriage and a family as you do about school.

#4: No, shockingly, I will not be joining an alumnae group BECAUSE OF MY JOB for heaven's sake.
One does not preclude the other. It sounds like you are insinuating that women who doin alumnae chapters don't work outside the home. That's terribly insulting as well as untrue. The reason I no longer work is not because I can't find the time to hold down a job because of my sorority commitments. It is because my husband makes a lot of money and I can afford the things I need and want without working. Sorry if that sounds bitchy, but you pulled the bitch card way before I did.

#5: Most people don't have as many things going on in their lives as much as a college student does. They have a family and maybe a job. WOO HOO! Wish I only had 2 things that stressed me out on a daily basis. The other things that stress people out are self-imposed.
Sweetie, take a reality pill PLEASE! In a few years when you are out there in ADULTLAND, you're going to look back at the statement you made and you're going to be embarassed at what an all-knowing, self-important little twit it makes you sound like! If you are this stressed out handling class, work, volunteer work and your sorority, maybe you belong behind the counter at Burger King 40 hours a week; not in college.

#6: I have to have a job (to pay for school stuff), I have to go to school because it surprisingly enough isn't the 1950s anymore where the woman is severely opressed by her man, and yes, I chose the sorority stuff because I wanted to have a life outside the work and school realms.
Then quit yipping about everything you "have" to do!

#7: My parents pay for tuition so loans from my college will not be seeking payments for that. I have to pay for everything else (i.e. car insurance and gas, textbooks, sorority bills, apartment, etc.).
You know hunny, a lot of people would say that you're a pampered little lamb because mummy and daddy pay your tuition. Ooooooh, you pay for your car insurance! Ooooh, you pay for gas, Oooooh, you pay for textbooks, blah, blah, blah!!! You think those things make you independant???? Pleeeze! :rolleyes: Sure, it's nice that you chip in, but you're not paying the brunt of it. You're still dependant on your parents.

Also, if you want to discuss this further, you can PM me but this is getting ridiculous because all I did was state my opinion and everyone got their panties in a wad.
If anything, I'm embarassed for you. You can't express yourself in any meaningful, eloquent way, you come off as a whiny, sniveling little snot, and it is very clear that you have little or no idea what you're talking about.

Just to note, you're not the only person who handled class, job, sorority and volunteerism. I did that, in addition to holding an editorial staff position on my college newspaper. And I paid the tuition my scholarship didn't cover. And I did a public relations internship. And I graduated early. And I snagged a plum job that was creatively and financially rewarding (though demanding; 60+ hours a week). And I still remained active in an alumnae chapter because being a Delta Zeta does not end when college does. And I paid back my student loans all by myself. And I'm sure I'm not the only woman who has ever done that. So do get over yourself.

But, I'm sure you're, um, a nice person. Afterall, you DID manage to get in a sorority the second time around! Oh, and please don't post explaining how you didn't get a bid the first time because you missed Prefs due to the fact that there was an international crisis and you had to brief the President on the state state of US/Saudi relations or something equally ridiculous and self-serving. 'Cause no one could possibly be as important as you seem to think YOU are :)

sugar and spice

04-24-2003, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
thank you. I just didn't want to drag MY specific letters in it. Even if I weren't in my particular sorority I would probably see it the same way because I know lots of people not join because they didn't join in college. I didn't even really know it existed until we initiated a lady as an alumnae and I didn't agree with initiating those out of school. To me, people can see it as an "easy in" if they don't join while in college and they'll in turn pay much cheaper dues. Also, I just don't see it as fair to people like myself that had to go through Recruitment 2 times to get into a sorority. I mean I have to work a job, maintain 15 to 17 hours worth of school, volunteer, and do things with my sorority. Whereas someone that's an alumnae, they will just deal with a possible career and a possible family.

First of all, if you think that getting initiated as an alumna is easier than going through rush, that shows how little you know about the process. Go through and read some of the threads about women who have initiated as alumnae. During my collegiate rush experience, all I had to do was go to some parties, make small talk and then I got a bid. These potential alumnae initiates must go through a process which is far more involved, far longer, and most of the time more difficult than collegiate rush. It is not "the easy way out." Were you subjected to a full background check before recruitment? Probably not. Did you have to spend months waiting to see if a group was going to invite you back? No. Were you only supposed to approach one group (or at the most, maybe two) at a time? No.

Not to mention that a family is a full-time job, 24 hours seven days a week, especially if you have young kids. And those who also have a job outside of the home will be working 40-60 hours a week. Personally, I think that's a little more stressful than college, and this is coming from someone who goes to school just as much as you do, balances homework, volunteer work, a boyfriend, and sorority, and has worked a job while at school in the past (although I don't currently). I think you are going to be disappointed if you expect "the real world" to be less stressful than college.

Sistermadly

04-24-2003, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
No, my panties are just find. In fact my panties don't even ride up my butt. Maybe you bunch of people are way too sensitive. Plus, I don't beat around the bush nor should I. This is the end of this discussion. If you want to continue this discussion, do NOT include me in it.

As my mom says, "Let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!"

DO NOT say anything that might be arugmentative because I am one of those people that has to respond to something like that and like I said I don't want to be involved anymore because this is taking up way too much of my time. Time in which I don't have.

*counts the number of times she's responded in this thread*

Yep.. sure does look like someone who is pressed for time. :rolleyes:

Sistermadly

04-24-2003, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by adduncan

It's coming down to how you communicate--and figuring out what is appropriate and what isn't.

Excellent advice.. one wonders if "Spy Barbie" had enough time to read it. :p :D

Sistermadly

04-24-2003, 08:49 PM

Killarney, I could hug you after that post. :D

KillarneyRose

04-24-2003, 08:58 PM

SPY BARBIE!!!!! Sistermadly, you crack me up!! :D

SPY HARPIE is more like it, though.

You know, after my 7 year-old daughter saw "Spy Kids", she wanted to be a spy too. Now she wants to be a ballerina. Kids are so fickle! :)

DO NOT say anything that might be arugmentative because I am one of those people that has to respond to something like that
Boys and girls, can you say "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder"? Or how about "Don't say anything to disturb the crazy lady" :D

Well, this was all fun but I want to go watch "Will and Grace" now. Ciao!

precious25

04-24-2003, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
[But, I'm sure you're, um, a nice person. Afterall, you DID manage to get in a sorority the second time around! Oh, and please don't post explaining how you didn't get a bid the first time because you missed Prefs due to the fact that there was an international crisis and you had to brief the President on the state state of US/Saudi relations or something equally ridiculous and self-serving. 'Cause no one could possibly be as important as you seem to think YOU are :) [/B]

LOL best post ever

Beryana

04-24-2003, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
And no I am not talking about anything in hypothetical terms. I really do have to work, maintain 15-17 hours, volunteer, and do things with my sorority. I do not think it's fair for us collegiates to pay such high dues and AIs can go in and not pay such high dues. I mean once I graduate I will have invested over $2000 in this thing and it's just not fair.

I know that I'm a little behind so I apologize for bringing up something that might be 'dead' two pages from when initially posted.

I am a proud AI of AOII. I was in a local as a collegiate, moved to Michigan and wanted to get back involved in Greek Life. AOII and I found each other, the rest is ongoing history. I just wanted to add my two cents worth that even though I am an alumna initiate, I still gave a LOT to my chapter of initiation. When I was chapter adviser (1.5 hours from where I was living), I was a full-time+ graduate student (15 hours graduate level classes), a full-time job, a full-time graduate assistantship (20 hours per week), AND weekend volunteering at museums and various living history events. If that is not making time for AOII because I wanted to - despite not having the time, I don't know what is. I am a dues paying alumna and if I had been given the opportunity to be a part of AOII or another NPC sorority while an undergraduate I would have done that - and still have given the time that I have.

Sarah
AI - 2000

P.S. I also wanted to add some comments to those that I found amusing. I paid my own way through undergrad (private college) as well as grad school (along with buying my own car, insurance, books, entertainment funds, study abroad, apartment/dorm, etc). I have a mortgage (because it is cheaper than an apartment - seriously!) and I earn enough to pay bills and put a very little aside for asthetic work on my house (talk about stress some times!). Basically I have been on my own financially for the past 11 years since graduating high school so be VERY thankful that your parents are providing what they are to you because it is RARE!

DGMarie

04-24-2003, 11:27 PM

(shakes head) Alumnae world is so COMPLETELY different from collegiate world in SO many ways. They really cannot compare. Different age groups, different experiences and on and on. It is almost a different organization.

We have over 800 alumnae in our area. 30 pay dues to the group. What does that tell you? I'll tell you: A very few people feel the lifelong commitment it seems. When a woman who is well qualified, interested, personable, outgoing and financially committed to supporting the glo I think she is MORE of an asset to her GLO than a 4 year collegian who faded away long ago....

Now, back to my hypothetical two children under age four, full time job and husband AND role as officer in my Alumnae group!

Marie

tnxbutterfly

04-24-2003, 11:53 PM

I wasn't going to post, but if she thinks the AI process is "easy" in the NPC, then I'd hate to see how she react to the process for the NPHC groups.:D :p

now back to our regualrly scheduled thread

aopirose

04-25-2003, 12:33 AM

KillarneyRose gets two snaps and a figure eight. http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/happy/xyxthumbs.gif I haven't laughed this hard in a while. http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/rofl.gif

Thanks to all who have shown us AIs such great support! http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/party/luxhello.gif

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
I am sure they have more time than I do. My mother did.
Then your mother obviously sat on her a** all day eating Doritos.

#1: I am not going to have a family simply because the job I will get will not be suitable for a family. I am joining the CIA after I graduate from graduate school.
That's well and good, but I know from personal experience that candidates for Central Intelligence Agency training must complete an extensive battery of psychological testing in order to be considered. Perhaps you should work on dislodging that chip on your shoulder before you apply?

#2: As for the mortgage, most people that have one have jobs that pay much more than mine does and they work the same amount of hours as I do but don't have to go to school.
If you can't afford a mortgage, you shouldn't take one on. It's called being "house poor".

#3: As much as school was very much of a choice for me as it was a necessity, it is a CHOICE to have a family. People do NOT have to get married and/or have kids.
Many people feel as strongly about marriage and a family as you do about school.

#4: No, shockingly, I will not be joining an alumnae group BECAUSE OF MY JOB for heaven's sake.
One does not preclude the other. It sounds like you are insinuating that women who doin alumnae chapters don't work outside the home. That's terribly insulting as well as untrue. The reason I no longer work is not because I can't find the time to hold down a job because of my sorority commitments. It is because my husband makes a lot of money and I can afford the things I need and want without working. Sorry if that sounds bitchy, but you pulled the bitch card way before I did.

#5: Most people don't have as many things going on in their lives as much as a college student does. They have a family and maybe a job. WOO HOO! Wish I only had 2 things that stressed me out on a daily basis. The other things that stress people out are self-imposed.
Sweetie, take a reality pill PLEASE! In a few years when you are out there in ADULTLAND, you're going to look back at the statement you made and you're going to be embarassed at what an all-knowing, self-important little twit it makes you sound like! If you are this stressed out handling class, work, volunteer work and your sorority, maybe you belong behind the counter at Burger King 40 hours a week; not in college.

#6: I have to have a job (to pay for school stuff), I have to go to school because it surprisingly enough isn't the 1950s anymore where the woman is severely opressed by her man, and yes, I chose the sorority stuff because I wanted to have a life outside the work and school realms.
Then quit yipping about everything you "have" to do!

#7: My parents pay for tuition so loans from my college will not be seeking payments for that. I have to pay for everything else (i.e. car insurance and gas, textbooks, sorority bills, apartment, etc.).
You know hunny, a lot of people would say that you're a pampered little lamb because mummy and daddy pay your tuition. Ooooooh, you pay for your car insurance! Ooooh, you pay for gas, Oooooh, you pay for textbooks, blah, blah, blah!!! You think those things make you independant???? Pleeeze! :rolleyes: Sure, it's nice that you chip in, but you're not paying the brunt of it. You're still dependant on your parents.

Also, if you want to discuss this further, you can PM me but this is getting ridiculous because all I did was state my opinion and everyone got their panties in a wad.
If anything, I'm embarassed for you. You can't express yourself in any meaningful, eloquent way, you come off as a whiny, sniveling little snot, and it is very clear that you have little or no idea what you're talking about.

Just to note, you're not the only person who handled class, job, sorority and volunteerism. I did that, in addition to holding an editorial staff position on my college newspaper. And I paid the tuition my scholarship didn't cover. And I did a public relations internship. And I graduated early. And I snagged a plum job that was creatively and financially rewarding (though demanding; 60+ hours a week). And I still remained active in an alumnae chapter because being a Delta Zeta does not end when college does. And I paid back my student loans all by myself. And I'm sure I'm not the only woman who has ever done that. So do get over yourself.

But, I'm sure you're, um, a nice person. Afterall, you DID manage to get in a sorority the second time around! Oh, and please don't post explaining how you didn't get a bid the first time because you missed Prefs due to the fact that there was an international crisis and you had to brief the President on the state state of US/Saudi relations or something equally ridiculous and self-serving. 'Cause no one could possibly be as important as you seem to think YOU are :)

ajuhdg

04-25-2003, 03:19 AM

MYMYMY...I guess I shouldn't post anything directed to anyone, since it seems that the witch has already taken off on her broomstick.

I do think that y'all are correct in assuming a lack of maturity on Ms. Thing's part. At one point in college I was working THREE jobs, paying EVERYTHING on my own, and have a stack of student loans to prove it! If she would really like to compare stressors, then lets compare...I'm sure I can beat you. My husband (whom I CHOSE to marry) will be deploying to the middle east sometime this week. Last week, I found out I was pregnant, and he will probably NOT be here (in Germany, where NONE of my family is) when I deliver our first child...which I also chose to have. At the same time this is going on, I'm finishing my Master's in Education...also something that I am paying for and chose to do. Should I continue or would you like to hear how hard it is to walk out your door everyday in a country where people hate you? How about the estimated date when my student loans will be paid off?

The most ironic part is that when I was in college, I thought things could not nearly be as tough as they are right now. Boy was I wrong. The reason that people get jobs and have families is because they see it as a normal HEALTHY part of life...much like your choice to focus on your career and nothing else, will make you quite a target for other belittling. I'm sure that you, your job,and your twenty cats will be quite happy in retirement in the backwoods of Montana. Do not degrade others for the choices that we make, as they are our choices and we are not bitching about making them. When you are truly on your own, then you let us know what's it's like.

If you chose to respond, the only acceptable response is a thank you to my husband for fighting for your right to spew incoherent, uneducated, crap from your mouth.

For the PNAM's and AI's...I did not know that this was possible when I first came to GC. Therefore, I EDUCATED myself on it before stating my opinion and looking like a fool. It is very naive of you to assume that bonds of sisterhood only exist amongst your collegiately linked sisters. I have started a group for women involved as military members, military spouses, or other government agencies as a support group. Not a single one of our members is from my chapter, but I feel closer to them than some of the girls I went to school with! And, most of us have never met face to face! If ANY women decided that she wanted to be a part of the sisterhood that DG shares, I would be HONORED to share that with them...regardless of the who's and why's of they didn't pledge as a collegian. You mentioned money, but as far as I'm concerned the time and effort these women devote to an organization is far more valuable then the money that I spent in college. Because, I guarantee that these women know how to appreciate it!

Okay...I'll stop...it's not good for the baby! LOL!

Adrienne

p.s. KilarneyRose...you crack me up!

JohnsDGsweethrt

04-25-2003, 06:22 AM

I must also agree with Adrienne (ajuhdg). My husband is also serving our country in the Army and I live in Germany which has anti-war protests but as you can clearly tell "does not have a dog in this fight" so to speak. Well, it sorta makes my blood boil. So if you think your life is stressful well at least you an American living in America! As for the AIs, I think its a great idea! They sometimes have pics of them in our magazine and they always look so happy to have joined DG. And I'm glad they are happy. I would be lost in this country without my sisters. They have been a huge help to me getting adjusted! So I believe in the alumnae experience! I also believe that the women in the 1950s weren't surpressed and as you may have noticed back then people actually parented their children and the divorce rate was lower! :)

AngelPhiSig

04-25-2003, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by scpiano211

#2: As for the mortgage, most people that have one have jobs that pay much more than mine does and they work the same amount of hours as I do but don't have to go to school.

#4: No, shockingly, I will not be joining an alumnae group BECAUSE OF MY JOB for heaven's sake.

#7: My parents pay for tuition so loans from my college will not be seeking payments for that. I have to pay for everything else (i.e. car insurance and gas, textbooks, sorority bills, apartment, etc.).

#2 Really, a lot of people that have first and second mortgages do not have the money - which is why they have a mortgage. My father is the only one in my family with a steady job and even that hasnt been steady. It is not all a "cake walk" in the real world sweetie.

#4 I am a 22 year old undergrad who happens to be alumna. I am very active with my chapter AND in the alumna world. Why would you NOT want to stay involved with your org if it "means so much to you" as you say?

#7 Try having to pay for everything yourself, and I mean EVERYTHING.

Thank you very much.

Sorority - its not just 4 years its 4 life.

peachy

04-25-2003, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by scpiano211

#1: I am not going to have a family simply because the job I will get will not be suitable for a family. I am joining the CIA after I graduate from graduate school.

The CIA sounds like an excellent goal, and would be an exciting career.

However, don't be too narrow in your expectations for anything. Stay open to possibilities. Life will offer you lots of interesting opportunities and choices (good and bad, expected and unexpected). You are strong enough to stand up for what you believe in, want, and need... that's great! But also try to be flexible enough to deal with what life hands you.

College is apparently a challenging time for you, but it is just 4 (or so) years of your life. DECADES lie ahead after that, and who knows what they could bring? Be ready for them by knowing what you want AND by being receptive to the new... you may be surprised at how far you go!

It is my sincere hope that decades from now when you look back at the path you've walked, there will be very few regrets (we all have them) and LOTS of satisfaction.

peachy

cutiepatootie

04-25-2003, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by sugar and spice
First of all, if you think that getting initiated as an alumna is easier than going through rush, that shows how little you know about the process. Go through and read some of the threads about women who have initiated as alumnae. During my collegiate rush experience, all I had to do was go to some parties, make small talk and then I got a bid. These potential alumnae initiates must go through a process which is far more involved, far longer, and most of the time more difficult than collegiate rush. It is not "the easy way out." Were you subjected to a full background check before recruitment? Probably not. Did you have to spend months waiting to see if a group was going to invite you back? No. Were you only supposed to approach one group (or at the most, maybe two) at a time? No.

Not to mention that a family is a full-time job, 24 hours seven days a week, especially if you have young kids. And those who also have a job outside of the home will be working 40-60 hours a week. Personally, I think that's a little more stressful than college, and this is coming from someone who goes to school just as much as you do, balances homework, volunteer work, a boyfriend, and sorority, and has worked a job while at school in the past (although I don't currently). I think you are going to be disappointed if you expect "the real world" to be less stressful than college.

Sugar and spice, You have summed up what i have been thinking all through out this thread. thank you :D

I was not going to get involved in this mud slinging fight with the misinformed "CIA "spy barbie" wanna be" thinks or blurts out there to cause chaos among us, but i will say i find her remarks down right insulting!

I had so many barriers against me in college to pledge and i never got to exp the bonding in college. But i will tell you my Alpha Phi sisters don't see AI written all over me they see Laura who is also an A Phi just like them. If that isn't bonding then i don't know what is! I am a PROUD AI and i am very active in my Alumnae chapter as VP of Membership and am looking to get more involved when time lets up to get involved hopefully with a coll chapter.

AI is the hardest thing to do. Don't get me wrong i was very blessed to approach my initation the way i did. It took me 6 months total. and i love every moment of being a A Phi! But i will tell you the road leading from college graduation in 95 to June of last yr was hard. I searched out a few GLOs who had the possiblity o f AI and all three either ended in heart break or nothing becoming of it.

I have heard in many replies that during formal rush, "sit pretty , make small talk and get a bid"...if AI was that easy life would be a happy place. AI you put yourself out there for display and got to prove why you want to become aprt of the sisterhood. Ladies.....that is hard! You really want to want it to make it thru some processes of AI that i have heard about. There is no easy way in.

some of my sisters on here will tell you how much anxiety i went thru waiting and wondering if i was in or not. Satx*aphi will tell you as she calmed me down a few times. formal rush is 3 to 4 days...AI is a lot longer ....try months! I would do it all over again knowing i would be a Alpha Phi !:D:):D

with wanting to be an AI as much as we all wanted to and what we went thru not to mention shouldering work, family, school and other outside commitments i think AIs are a great breed of sisters because we worked hard to get where we are at and show our love and pride of being a member of a GLO. i say WE ROCK THE HOUSE!:D

PROUD PROUD member of ALPHA PHI dang it!
ALUM INITATE 2002!
Laura:D

KillarneyRose

04-25-2003, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by scpiano211
This year alone I applied to be on exec, Rho Gamma (Chi), and Peer Mentor and was rejected all three times. What is wrong? I asked why I wasn't chosen and everytime they tell me that it wasn't me as a person and they had a lot of very qualified people applying. I mean obviously there is something wrong with me to be rejected 3 times in a row. Will I never be good enough for these people? I mean I am graduating in December so it's not like I wouldn't be here to do it. I have the time to do it and am very qualified

Poor little thing, bless her heart, seems to be in need of "People Skills 101" I can just imagine her interviews. :eek:

Q: It says on your resume that you're taking 36 credits this semester, working 60 hours a week, singlehandedly building a new home for an underprivleged family of 12 and are an outside consultant to the United Nations to boot. How do you expect to find the time to serve in this position?

A: Um, excuse me , but you forgot to mention how I'm working diligently to save the Purple Panamanian Fruitfly from extinction and developing cure for athletes foot while simultaneously paying for the insurance on the car my parents bought me

Q: Next!

A: Did you know that I'm the one that invented "The Clapper"?

Q: Please leave.

A: Clap on {clap, clap}, Clap off {clap, clap}, Clap on, clap off....

Q: Security!!!!!

kddani

04-25-2003, 10:10 AM

some of you GCers definately have a future in comedy writing!

LMAO

JohnsDGsweethrt

04-25-2003, 10:20 AM

killarneyrose,

you are really funny! :D

GeekyPenguin

04-25-2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by scpiano211
thank you. I just didn't want to drag MY specific letters in it. Even if I weren't in my particular sorority I would probably see it the same way because I know lots of people not join because they didn't join in college. I didn't even really know it existed until we initiated a lady as an alumnae and I didn't agree with initiating those out of school. To me, people can see it as an "easy in" if they don't join while in college and they'll in turn pay much cheaper dues. Also, I just don't see it as fair to people like myself that had to go through Recruitment 2 times to get into a sorority. I mean I have to work a job, maintain 15 to 17 hours worth of school, volunteer, and do things with my sorority. Whereas someone that's an alumnae, they will just deal with a possible career and a possible family.

My mother, a PNAM, couldn't AFFORD to be in a sorority in college because she was putting herself through a private school. "Easy in?" I doubt it. Sororities are not about dues, they are about sisterhood. I highly doubt women say "I won't join in college, I'll do it afterwards and not pay dues!" I don't think any PNAM with that as her motivation would make it far withmost groups. Women who are alums have careers and families (everybody has a family...), and they too volunteer, belong to churches, and do things with their sororities. I think you have a very exclusive attitude going on. What if a woman was a triple-threat legacy to ZTA but went to a college that didn't have a chapter? Rather than join a group there, she waited until graduation because there was nothing but ZTA for her. You think she wouldn't be a good member because she didn't pay nm fees? That's ridiculous.

GeekyPenguin

04-25-2003, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by tnxbutterfly
I wasn't going to post, but if she thinks the AI process is "easy" in the NPC, then I'd hate to see how she react to the process for the NPHC groups.:D :p

now back to our regualrly scheduled thread

She probably doesn't think they're real, becuase they don't have Formal Recruitment. :p

DWAlphaGam

04-25-2003, 10:58 AM

I just have to say that I heart KillarneyRose! :D

All of you are just cracking me up with your responses to this chick. Too bad nothing seems to be getting through to her.

One last thing:

ROCK ON, ALUMNAE INITIATES! You guys are the ones who join for all the right reasons from the start, which is more than I can say for many who joined as collegiates (myself included). I thought I knew what being in a sorority was all about while I was in college, but being an alumna has taught me so much more. AI's have it the best because you get to jump right to the best part!

pinkyphimu

04-25-2003, 12:08 PM

killarney rose- i just about peed my pants! you are wonderful!!!

tinydancer

04-25-2003, 12:16 PM

Oh, I swore I was not going to respond, but I had to. You all know how I have been overjoyed to find out about AI for months now. I have my first activity with "a sorority" on Sunday, and I don't mind saying that I am a bit nervous.

But EASY???? Is it easy to be going through "Rush" at age 50? Is it easy knowing that the first group I visit may or may not be "the One" and if it isn't, I have to start all over? Is it easy to maybe have to wait during the summer while activities are at a lull?

EASY????? Oh, give me air!!!

I am SOOO thankful for the wonderful sororities that do embrace AI and welcome women into their sisterhood.

OK, it must be time for lunch or I wouldn't be so cross.

Lizz (PNAM tinydancer - and PROUD of it!!)

LXAAlum

04-25-2003, 12:57 PM

OK.

Here's my take on this, from "the other side of the fence" - fraternities.

It seems to me that many of the "honorary" initiates (which would be our term for alumni, or other categories other than "standard" initiation) have been extremely involved AND influential.

I've seen one honorary start not one, but two, colonies, one has been chartered for a while, and the second is months away from chartering.

I've seen another honorary take a very high leadership position not only in our fraternity, but in the interfraternity world as well, drawing upon his legal expertise.

I've seen other honoraries stay involved (statistically speaking, MUCH more involved than brothers who go alumni by graduation) with their respective chapters.

Never, EVER, have I heard a word of criticism of HOW they got into the brotherhood. Once a brother, always a brother, regardless of the circumstances of how one became involved. Sure, I have heard lot's of criticism about how they might approach a problem with a solution, but, then again, that is what makes them even MORE valuable to the organization - they are able to bring in an outside perspective that brothers "raised" on the traditions and history of a particular chapter might not otherwise have. It's always a good thing to have a "devil's advocate" to someone with the tired argument of "but that's how it's always been done here." Tradition does not mean the "right" way all the time.

A fresh pair of eyes, a different perspective, or just the voice of experience can sometimes make all the difference in the membership and future of a chapter.

Greekgrrl

04-25-2003, 02:33 PM

LXAAlum, that's a fantastic perspective. I never thought of the devil's advocate possibilities!

Three cheers to the alumni/ae initiates and all they do to strengthen our organizations. :)

adduncan

04-25-2003, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Greekgrrl
LXAAlum, that's a fantastic perspective. I never thought of the devil's advocate possibilities!

I've found out that my current status as a non-Greek has been helpful in educating parents about Greek life at my alma mater.

I work as an Admissions Volunteer at BU. Basically, we do college nights, field interviews, etc.

Invariably, the first question I get is about Greek life, from both students and parents. Down here in the South, Greek recruitment can be pretty harsh. (Witness the many GC threads on the topic.) I have the opportunity to define how things work at our school, from an objective standpoint--and calm their fears/concerns for their kids going off to school.

"Hmmmmm--she has nothing to gain by promoting Greeks 'cause she isn't one herself. Maybe there is something really good here to look at!"

So, in some small way, I'm trying to promote Greek life at my own alma mater, and other schools by using that "objective" POV. Hopefully it's working.

(But I'm still pushing AI--I'll work that in when the time comes! :p )

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)
:D

JohnsDGsweethrt

04-25-2003, 03:14 PM

Good luck with AI! I have heard good thngs about it at least from my perspective!

ZTAMiami

04-25-2003, 03:19 PM

I just wanted to make it clear that the previous comments made are not the point of view of Zeta Tau Alpha Fraternity.

Please do not be discouraged (or ticked off) by an individuals statements. Remember that this is an anonymous public board and some things may not be what they seem.

CutiePie2000

04-25-2003, 03:39 PM

Not to worry, ZTAMiami,
one of your Zeta sisters radioZTA made a wonderful post here (http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27937&perpage=15&pagenumber=6). She stated that she is trying to get one of her friends AI'd into ZTA, but the friend had not made the decision yet. She wrote that "We're going to keep asking until she realizes we're serious and then give us an answer one way or another", which I think is wonderful. I hope that she keeps us posted on what happens.

This is also a beautiful ZTA convention initiate story (http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32025) and this is one of the most heartwarmining things that I have ever read on GC, submitted by GPhiBLtColonel - it's here (http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?s=&postid=253386&highlight=nary#post253386).

ztawinthropgirl

04-25-2003, 04:52 PM

Hi, I am sorry about the comments made on this "screenname" I am a ZTA but my roommate got on my computer and logged on under this "screenname". She doesn't agree with AI initiation and I am neutral on the whole thing. She has very strong opinions about stuff whereas do I but I personally know how to communicate my opinions in a succinct method whether it be PC or not. I feel that it's a strong point in joining a sorority or fraternity in college but shouldn't be the ONLY way to join a sorority as an alumna.

I do work a part-time job to pay for much of my schooling and other things. My parents do pay the brunt of my tuition which I am thankful for but I am on scholarship so they don't have to pay very much. They believed I shouldn't have to stress over paying for tuition while I am in school or have to worry about the financial burden of student loans once I graduate b/c I will have enough bills to worry about (i.e. insurance, possible mortgage, food, utility bills, etc.)

I do plan on joining the CIA after graduate school and do NOT plan on a family. The decision to not have a family is due to the major safety hazard inflicted upon myself and family. I feel that it's unfair, say if something fatefully happened to me or I get severely injured or held captive, to my family. I decided not to have a family before my decision to join the CIA because I don't feel the need to have a family. It's not unhealthy to NOT have a family either, AJUHDG. I know everyone believes my mind will change once I enter my career but I have felt this way for a very very long time. I really don't feel I will change my mind later in life.

It's an honor to be a ZTA no matter when you are initiated. I am thrilled to be a ZTA even though I went through Recruitment process twice. The reason why is because my ZTA chapter takes legacies seriously unless they are rude. I am a double legacy of Delta Zeta. I put that on my application and my chapter assumed I would join DZ the first time I went through. Unfortunately, I did not fit into the DZ chapter because they were very rude to me during the Recruitment process because they took my last name and checked on the legacy connection instead of using my mom's maiden name. I didn't have to participate in any diplomatic actions with President Bush, V. President Cheney, or Sec. of State Colin Powell that caused me to miss my preference parties.

Also, I am a very sociable person unlike my roommate that I WON'T be living with next year thankfully. KILLARNY ROSE I have a sense of humor but come on! I know it was aimed at my anti-social roommate but I was in a way kind of offended because was indirectly directed at me. The reason I didn't get these positions is because of other reasons that I don't feel necessary to discuss.

Finally, I apologize for my roommate because she's a jealous psycho bitch! Sorry for my French. She's just jealous that I am in a sorority and she was dropped from ZTA, the sorority she was a legacy to. So she does psycho things! OK that's it, I think.

aopinthesky

04-25-2003, 05:05 PM

>>>Hi, I am sorry about the comments made on this "screenname"<<<

SCPIANO,
Take a deep breath and then please, please, take your medication. I could point out all the holes in your tall tale, but this "reading public" is comprised of very smart people and they already know. What started out as a thread from a very excited PNAM has become a forum for your foolishness, and I, for one, am over it. Please take this somewhere else, although I don't think there is a category that quite fits you.

ztawinthropgirl

04-25-2003, 05:10 PM

My roommate DID log on because stupid me saved the password on my computer. I don't care to start anything. I just came in to apologize. I am sorry that you don't accept it.

adduncan

04-25-2003, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by aopinthesky
>>>Hi, I am sorry about the comments made on this "screenname"<<<

SCPIANO,
Take a deep breath and then please, please, take your medication. I could point out all the holes in your tall tale, but this "reading public" is comprised of very smart people and they already know. What started out as a thread from a very excited PNAM has become a forum for your foolishness, and I, for one, am over it. Please take this somewhere else, although I don't think there is a category that quite fits you.

As much as I'd like to vent some frustration myself, I dont' think the benefit of the doubt is out of line here.

I had a similar scenario happen to me a few years ago. Someone I knew got a hold of my AOL account, sent a ton of emails and made posts w/out my permission, and I suffered greatly for it among my little online social group. Since it happened to me, I'm not going to be that quick to judge someone else.

Scpiano--I'll take your current post at face value--once. But I do think you need some security on your machine.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)
:)

CutiePie2000

04-25-2003, 05:14 PM

http://www.greekchat.net/gcforums/index.php?s=

Scroll way way down to the bottom right corner to log out.
Make sure you do this each time you are done your GC session.

ztawinthropgirl

04-25-2003, 05:15 PM

Thanks. I am not very computer literate and this is a new computer. I just figured how to put a password on my computer so let's cross our fingers and hope that it works.

Once again I apologize and congrats to the alumnae initiates to all sororities and fraternities.

CutiePie2000

04-25-2003, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by scpiano211
Thanks. I am not very computer literate and this is a new computer. I just figured how to put a password on my computer so let's cross our fingers and hope that it works.

Once again I apologize and congrats to the alumnae initiates to all sororities and fraternities.
You're welcome. It's kind of hidden way way down there, so it is easy to miss.

Thank you for your kind apology. It is appreciated. :)

JohnsDGsweethrt

04-25-2003, 05:18 PM

Cutie pie you are funny. lol

sugar and spice

04-25-2003, 05:23 PM

Regardless of whether or not her story is true, she apologized for what she (or her roommate) said and I think we should take that at face value.

There's no point in holding grudges any further.

adduncan

04-25-2003, 05:26 PM

I'm thinking to get a fresh start on the board **for everyone** I can delete the thread, since I started it.

Any thoughts?

Adrienne (PNAM 2003)

CutiePie2000

04-25-2003, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by adduncan
I'm thinking to get a fresh start on the board **for everyone** I can delete the thread, since I started it.

Any thoughts?

Adrienne (PNAM 2003)

That sounds like a great idea , my future "alumna initiate sister".
If I may suggest, perhaps copy and paste the initial few responses, that were in response to the original question, before the thread took its negative turn?

BrownEyedGirl

04-25-2003, 05:32 PM

As a collegiate Zeta Tau Alpha (for just another week!), I thought I'd chime in here and share a really great AI story with y'all. I, too, knew nothing about AI until I read some really heart-warming (and very addictive) threads here on GC. This past fall, my chapter pledged 50 beautiful new members, and one fantastic alumna new member. She owns Tiger Lily, the flower and gift shop that has been an indispensable help to us during Recruitment, Parents' Weekend, Formals, Christmas parties, you name it - for the past five or six years. She has been the "florist of choice", if you will, for a number of sororities here at Clemson because she absolutely bends over backwards to make sure anything you need or want is done, and done beautifully. I won't hazard a guess at her age, because it doesn't really matter, but I know that she has been out of college for thirty or so years.

She had become close friends with one of our advisors (a local resident and Province President who literally founded this chapter) since ZTA began here, and our advisor eventually approached her with the idea of initiating. The process, of which most of us in the collegiate chapter were entirely unaware, took a while but in the end our AI, Margaret, was able to pledge and initiate with our 2002 new member class. She has, if it's possible, become even more devoted to Zeta and to our chapter - doing anything and everything you could possibly imagine to further whatever we are working on or planning. In every sense of the word, she is our sister.

Seeing her during initiation, surrounded by all of her collegiate chapter sisters, and by many South Carolina alumnae who had come for the special initiation - was absolutely touching. I may never have really understood the purpose of AI until that moment, but it's now entirely clear to me. Zeta has added so much to my life, and shaped me in so many ways - whatever a person must do to be a part of that friendship, commitment, and bond - they'll do it.

I have great respect for all of the AI's and PNAM's - you have a drive and a desire that really says volumes about you, as it does about our own AI here in Clemson. Every time I read these threads I think about her, and how lucky we are to have "snatched her up", as we say about formal recruitment. Any sorority would be lucky to have all of you work to further their ideals and strengthen their sisterhoods. Good luck, and keep us posted.

Memo to those who question its purpose - Alumnae Initiation is not unfair, one-sided, "sneaking in", less difficult, better, or even worse than joining during college. It is simply a different means to the same end.