DZ and recruitment at UF

[hopefulgreek]

Alright, last night at chapter we were told that DZ is going through formal recruitment as expected for Fall 2003. They just colonized this year. They, of course, at the present have no house. After deciding with many options already closed, they are rushing girls out of the ATO house here at the UF campus. Now, they have promised to remove all ATO materials out of the house and cover up the letters, composities, etc. They, as a group, have also promised to make it clear that the house they are rushing out of is NOT theirs. And any ATOS are not allowed at their events. But they are not saying which house it is, however it's the most famous of all frat houses on campus. OF COURSE Girls will know! But, somehow to me they still shouldn't be rushing out of a house, especially a frat house. I understand this is the only option and what DZ got allowed to do but was wondering what others thought. Do you think that that is fair? Or what are your feelings on it?

[texas*princess]

I don't know too much about that school, but where else would they be able to hold recruitment events?

Is the ATO house near the other sorority houses?

Without knowing much, I don't see anything wrong with holding recruitment at a fraternity's house, since you mentioned they will explain to the girls that they don't have a house, and not claim that the house they are in is theirs.

:confused:

[hopefulgreek]

I don't know too much about that school, but where else would they be able to hold recruitment events?
Well, the most likely place would have been the Ritz Union, where DZ actually meets. However, the rooms in Ritz are all booked.

Is the ATO house near the other sorority houses?
Um, Yes it is. So busing would not have to be used. However, busing is done for Pi Phi, which is located on Frat row.


I think my initial problem is the fact they are overlooking the Alpha Gamma Rho house, located more near sorority row. It would be more on the row than ATO,because it is near Kappa Kappa Gamma. They claim that the room's were not large enough.


__________________

[Greekgeezer]

Why do you care so much? It sounds like you're jealous instead of being happy that DZ actually has a place to rush, and it might be better than your house. If girls obviously know it's the ATO house, then they'll obviously know they won't be living there in the future -- so it really shouldn't influence their decision if they're smart.

It's not unfair unless you have a better suggestion for a place for them to rush. Do you expect them to conduct parties outside in August in Florida? Putting them inside an actual greek structure will help DZ's morale and comraderie, get over it.

[FuzzieAlum]

Not having their own house will be rush obstacle enough - not being able to rush in a house at all could be disasterous. New chapters have enough problems to face without that.

And if the women of DZ are so foolish as to not make it crystal clear to rushees that it isn't their own house, they will lose girls after bid day - and they'll earn their own punishment.

[hopefulgreek]

JEALOUS? Not likely, since my house holds the most girls in house than any other sorority.
Plus, cleaning up the ATO house? Not Fun. I mean how and what will they do with it? Put in a garden?

It's just sorority rush is supposed to be as neutral as possible, we especially aren't supposed to advertise ties with any frat in particular.

I am upset because I don't think this is an accurate rep of their house. They do not have their own "house" to rush out of. For the future, their new house I have seen the plans for is beautiful.

DZ has never to my knowledge had an event with ATO, and I feel the sorority is trying to connect themselves as much as possible with them.

No I don't expect rush to do done outside and that was never discussed as even an option. I know that would discourage PNM from wanting to keep visiting DZ.

[astbunny]

I understand why you would think that the DZs having rush at the fraternity house is unfair. The DZs by having rush at the ATO house, even though all letters are down and boys aren't there, associates them with that fraternity and the fact that it is one of the more popular fraternities atracts girls to that house. The rules in Panhellenic stating that sororities shall not have rush events with men's fraternities was put in effect I assumed to seperate the association of certain sororities with men's fraternities. By having it at the fraternity house, even though letters aren't up and the boys aren't there, associates them with this fraternity. Most new chapters that come onto a campus don't have a house. My chapter doesn't have a house, but I'm sure that there is another option for the DZ's than the fraternity house.

[EM1843]

I have a problem with it and I'm not even in a sorority. The ATO house is quite possibly the largest/best looking house on campus, which has alot to due with the fact that they have the highest dues on campus. The house looks much better than most sorority houses and knowing the UF greek communities' stance on telling the truth and not hidding facts during sorority rush, I don't think they'll say "Hey girls look at the beautiful house that we're in that isn't ours. We have no house, but we are just here." Dirty rushing is a fact of life at UF for girls and I think this gives them an unfair advantage...but I also think they'll have alot of girls drop because "their beautiful house" isn't DZ's...

[ZTAngel]

I think that having them rush out of ATO is the most fair option. Neutral would be if they had a house of their own like you.
I go to UCF where four of the ten sororities are unhoused. The four unhoused sororities rush out of the fraternity houses. The PNM's do not associate the sororities with the houses that they are rushing out of. Girls will not join Delta Zeta for their supposed ties with ATO; I am sure DZ will make it clear as possible that it is not their house....they have to.
You have more of an upper hand in this situation than you think. From my experience at UCF, I have had a number of girls that are going through rush tell me that they would not join a sorority that does not have a house. Why? I don't know but for some reason this is what the PNM's prefer. It hurts a sorority more to not have a house and to rush out of fraternity house more than you think. I think that instead of being "upset" you should try to be supportive. It must be hard for a chapter to go through formal rush for the first time and not have their own house to rush out of. Y'all have had the same house for years and therefore know the structure which means more organized rush parties and entrances/exits. Delta Zeta not only has to learn how to rush these girls but they have to organize their parties in a house that is completely unfamiliar to them. They are a new sorority and need as much support as possible.
When I went through rush, the unhoused sororities made it clear that they were rushing out of house that wasn't their own. Our Rho Gamma's also informed us of this. The PNM's will know that the ATO house is not DZ's.

[dzandiloo]

I know nothing about the situation at UF re. where DZ will be rushing, but based on your comments, I have a few observations. For obvious reasons, my comments may seem biased, but here goes.

1. I am certain that Panhellenic will also make sure it is crystal clear to the PNMs that the house does not belong to DZ, nor is there any relationship between DZ or the organization that does own it (assuming it is remotely possible to keep the identity of said organization a secret). Did DZ make the decision to use the ATO house in a vacuum, or was Panhellenic aware of the options and/or involved in the decision?

2. I think PNMs deserver more credit than they are being given, that they are capable of realizing that DZ is a new chapter, with no house (but a beautiful one on the way) and the ATO house (whether they know it is the ATO house or not) is merely a structure with 4 walls, a ceiling and most importantly, an air conditioner that will be comparable to the others they will be visiting during recruitment. If it is a nice house (once cleaned up) then it will only serve to make the members and PNMs more comfortable.

3. This is snarky, but, IMO, any PNM who cannot separate ownership of a house from the people who are using it, and makes assumptions that there is a special connection between said fraternity & sorority & further, makes a decision to pledge there, should not have been accepted to a university such as UF.

4. Put your organization in DZs position. If your org were new to a campus of that size and with a Greek system of such stature, you would expect to have every opportunity to compete. No, a student Union room would not do. Any new org should be allowed to use a similar structure to the other groups-and should not be pressured into using something that is merely adequate. Given the choice-would your organization honestly choose to use the ATO house or the AGR house? I have never seen either, so I can't speculate, but it sounds like you have an opinion on that.

DZ is not trying to do anything under the table or unfairly influence anyone. They are trying to compete-which they have a right to do. If I remember correctly, the sororities at UF were extremely excited and supportive of DZ's arrival last year. I hope that trend continues & wish everyone success in the fall.

[IowaHawkeye]

Originally posted by hopefulgreek
I know that would discourage PNM from wanting to keep visiting DZ.

Way to have that panhellenic spirit!

There is a chapter new on my campus that is unhoused - and i know that has hurt their numbers TREMENDOUSLY. i may even suggest they do use a fraternity house b/c i would absolutely love to see them succeed.

I agree with ZTAngel - the most fair/neutral option would be for them to have their own house to rush out of - but right now that is NOT an option. I think the most unfair would be a room in the student union - talk about perceptions girls would have - girls go from big beautiful sorority houses, much like yours hopefulgreek, to a room in the student union...

There is NO WAY the DZ national advisor, who will most likely be helping them with their FIRST formal rush, would allow them to NOT say the house wasn't theirs - please, women of Delta Zeta and our national headqurters have much more class than that. I bet the fact that they are building a brand new gorgeous house will be a big topic of discussion - and they'll even have floor plans readily available to show PNMs! My hope is that girls would want to help establish DZ on the UF campus from the ground up, literally!

hopefulgreek - i really wouldn't worry about it too much - youre an established group on campus with the biggest house.

[hopefulgreek]

I know that would discourage PNM from wanting to keep visiting DZ.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Way to have that panhellenic spirit!

Outdoors and in Florida! I'm not crazy!Sidenote: I know of girls who refused to be bused to Pi Phi and dropped them because of it. On the contrary, girls like the fact it is the only sorority house on frat row.


Plus, they practically had floor plans last year. I hope someday I get to see that house finished!It is planned to not be done until 2005. It's going to be sweet! Most girls are jealous!

[sugar and spice]

I don't think you have too much to worry about. Why is it that you think that EVERY PNM will know that it's the ATO house the girls are rushing out of, and that ATO is one of the best fraternities on campus . . . yet you also think that NONE of the PNMs will know that Delta Zeta just colonized last year and are planning on building a house? Just remembering how gossip got around in my rush group, if DZ claims it's their house but even ONE rushee knows that it isn't, by the end of the first round of parties, ever girl in her rush group will know that it's not, and they'll all cut the group for lying. I would hope that DZ would be smarter than that, and I'm sure they will be.

The whole Panhellenic rule that fraternities should not be associated with the sororities that are participating in formal rush IS problematic . . . still, I think this is the fairest option. I don't think you should worry too much.

[hopefulgreek]

I do not think that DZ will claim it as their house. They couldn't and are entirely too "classy" because to do so would be lying.

[sugar and spice]

I know you didn't mention that possibility . . . but somebody else did.

[MTSUGURL]

When I rushed at the private school I transferred from, Kappa Delta didn't have a house, but the other 2 did. KD held their rush at the SAE house. They did a great job, the house looked on the inside like it was a sorority house. SAE had taken down pictures and tons of other stuff so that KD could hang theirs. I don't remember being impressed or put off by the fact it was held at one of the fraternity houses. I just took it as something that was because it had to be.

[EM1843]

To all of you who have said DZ has no other option are forgetting one thing...the AZD/TKE house. To those of you who don't know the history of this house, no one is currently living there and the house is right next to Kappa Alpha Theta near sorority row. Why not use this house...it is much more fair in my opinion.

As a side note DZ didn't have a problem recruiting last year without a house...they were able to bring in about 150 girls...

[ZTAngel]

DZ recruited last year during informal rush. It is completely different than competing with 16 different sororities during formal recruitment.

I am sure that panhellenic explored all the options and made a fair, unbiased decision. I don't think that a panhellenic that is comprised of girls from other chapters would have let DZ take the ATO house if they felt it would give them an "edge". There might be a reason why they can't use the AZD/TKE house.

[33girl]

It's very common at many schools for groups without houses to use those of other groups. As far as them not using an empty house, could it be that the empty house needs dusted/has no utilities/is a general mess?

This is exactly why Panhel and IFC discourage using "house" to refer to a GLO (what house are you in?) - the emphasis should be on the people in the house, not the physical structure. I loved our little house, mostly because of the memories made there, but believe me, it had NOTHING to do with my decision of where to pledge. The fact that people would actually pick a sorority or fraternity based on that makes me somewhat ill.

[hopefulgreek]

It's very common at many schools for groups without houses to use those of other groups
See now I'm glad I found that out! I thought it was unusual!


There might be a reason why they can't use the AZD/TKE house.

Indeed. It has to do with the house can not be rented while it is under contract. For DZ to use the house, they would have to rent it out, which they can not do currently.

However, most of the greek world knows DZ is most likely tearing down the AZD/TKE house to build the new 3 million dollar (yes that's right) DZ house. They feel they can't renovate it adequately or whatnot. Yes, I wish my chapter could get those funds. But who doesn't? I wish my house could be renovated a but fortunately it is being redone (the bathroom's in the back are well old to say the least).

[shadokat]

As a side note to all the chatter on if using a fraternity facility is allowable, NPC also states that on campuses where chapters are housed, all NPC sororities must be provided with EQUITABLE housing to each other. DZ, at the current time, has none. Using this fraternity's housing unit gives them NO advantage. The house is well known, yes, so why would anyone question if DZ was living there now? Greek Life and NPC will make clear to the women going through the process that DZ is USING the ATO house...trust me.

hopeful, this is meant in the nicest way possible, but worry about your own recruitment. You have an awesome house, the biggest on campus as you said, and fretting over DZs use of a fraternity house is honestly the least of the worries. Focus those energies on making your own recruitment fabulous! :)

[AchtungBaby80]

At my school, quite a few of the fraternities either don't have houses or their houses are too far off-campus to hold rush there. So, they ask permission to use sorority houses for their rush week. Every semester we have a fraternity using our house, and no one has ever said anything about it not being fair...even though the sorority houses are generally a lot nicer than the fraternity houses. People know the houses don't belong to the fraternities.

[madmax]

Originally posted by shadokat
As a side note to all the chatter on if using a fraternity facility is allowable, NPC also states that on campuses where chapters are housed, all NPC sororities must be provided with EQUITABLE housing to each other.



How could you ever enforce that rule. If there are only two sororities on campus and A has a great house and B has no house is A supposed to lend their house to B and what if A doesn't want to lend their house to B?

[33girl]

I think this more applies to campuses with big houses that are on campus. At Clarion, for example, the houses definitely aren't "equal" but they are all off campus and the school has nothing to do with it. It would follow that Panhel, being a recognized student org at the school, also has nothing to do with it. So there's no way they can say "hey Zetas, let Phi Sig use your house for rush." ;)

[pinkyphimu]

Originally posted by madmax
How could you ever enforce that rule. If there are only two sororities on campus and A has a great house and B has no house is A supposed to lend their house to B and what if A doesn't want to lend their house to B?

or rush is held in the student union....or some other place on campus that is neutral to all groups.

i didn't know about this rule. i know when my chapter was younger, the other 3 sororities had houses and we used a room in one of the dorms. then another year, they used the hillel house. of course, now our house is smaller than the others, but i am not sure how much that attributes to recruitment troubles.

[hopefulgreek]

It would follow that Panhel, being a recognized student org at the school, also has nothing to do with it.

HaHA!UF has too much to do with everything, especially PanHel and rush. Panhel definately had something to do with it. They had to OK whereever DZ was rushing out of. They had the final say with all sorority houses voting. Also, I think PanHel helped DZ arrange the details with ATO.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by madmax
How could you ever enforce that rule. If there are only two sororities on campus and A has a great house and B has no house is A supposed to lend their house to B and what if A doesn't want to lend their house to B?

Well, the easiest way that it's enforced is that the situation you described hardly ever happens. There's an understanding (I'm not sure if it's an official rule or an unwritten one) that if a sorority is going to colonize at a campus, it's got to have equal resources to the sorority that's already there. And no sorority that's just coming to campus will try to "outdo" the other sorority by building a huge gorgeous house when the other sorority doesn't have one. So most of the time, the housing -- whether it's no housing, dorm suites, small houses, or giant mansions -- will be relatively equal for all sororities.

[oceanphi01]

I've never heard of a sorority using a fraternity's house during formal recruitment. I know Florida Tech has a small Greek system, but until last year, we didn't have a house while Gamma Phi Beta had a chapter room and it didn't hurt our numbers at all. As far as I know (since I didn't go through Formal Recruitment) they had recruitment in their chapter room. I don't know if this would apply to a school with a larger Greek system, but having recruitment in a fraternity house just seem odd and a little to risky to me.

[33girl]

Originally posted by hopefulgreek
HaHA!UF has too much to do with everything, especially PanHel and rush. Panhel definately had something to do with it. They had to OK whereever DZ was rushing out of. They had the final say with all sorority houses voting. Also, I think PanHel helped DZ arrange the details with ATO.

That's exactly what I'm saying - that since UF IS a school with big on campus houses, Panhel would have a lot more to say about their living/rushing arrangments. I was comparing a situation like that to my alma mater which is the exact opposite of UF. None of our houses are on campus or recognized by the school in any way.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by EM1843
As a side note DZ didn't have a problem recruiting last year without a house...they were able to bring in about 150 girls...

Thanks for mentioning that, EM1843! :) If I recall correctly, 150 out of approximately 500 women were given bids.

[Floridagirl]

I think they should recruit from where ever they want becuz the DZs will have a very tough time being the only non-housed group on a very competitive campus.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I don't think that allowing DZ to use a fraternity house will cause any problems or give them an unfair advantage. If all or most of the other sororities have houses and DZ does not, DZ is at a disadvantage. When I was in college, we didn't have sorority houses or dorm suites or any official university recognized housing. We had rush on campus in the lecture halls or the classrooms in different buildings on campus. The smaller sororities were given smaller rooms so as not to be overwhelmed by a huge room, and the bigger sororities were given the bigger rooms.

Are they (DZ or the college) in the process of building a house? I find this process very interesting because we had no official sorority housing.

[hopefulgreek]

Are they (DZ or the college) in the process of building a house? I find this process very interesting because we had no official sorority housing.

DZ's house should be done by 2004 or so. That's the word from them. No one has really heard for sure when building will start.

[stargirl725]

The same people who would be shallow enough to judge a chapter based on its house would pass over DZ because they don't have a house yet...this doesn't seem like a big deal to me :)

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by stargirl725
The same people who would be shallow enough to judge a chapter based on its house would pass over DZ because they don't have a house yet...this doesn't seem like a big deal to me :)

Honestly, I don't consider this shallow. Some girls want to live in a house, and it is one of many things to consider during rush.

[AGDLynn]

At West Georgia, 6 NPC sororities currently live in 1 dorm -- each group has their own hall. All parties are held in the dorm except for Pref. If a 7th or more sorority is added, it will be interesting to see if they move all the parties to school rooms (like it was for years) so that the newest group wouldn't be at a disadvantage.

The dorm doesn't have a "common" area unless you count the lobby and the basement/kitchen which aren't that great.

Most of the groups probably couldn't afford right away to build houses. The school would probably enforce the rule that if 1 group moves out, they all do. Two years ago, they changed the rule that each group is financially responsible for 25 beds in the Fall and 24 in the Spring. If a group has problems filling those spots, think of the financial nightmare a house would be.

Best of luck to DZ!

[rushqueen44]

...

[EM1843]

Were you here when AZD was on campus? They had problems rushing girls because of conflicts between the sisters which showed to rushies, not because they had a poor house...I actually think it's a fairly nice house.

[rushqueen44]

...

[33girl]

I remember seeing a story from the Alligator about AZD when their chapter closed, and it said they recolonized before around the time the Gainesville murders happened because it was hard to get girls to go through rush.

What am I missing - was their house next to the murder site or something? Why would it effect only them?

[EM1843]

I'm sure the AZD TKE house could use some work but it seems to me it would be better for them to rent out the house for the next few years while their house is being built. But then again that's what I've thought since they came to campus...oh well...
And no the house isn't close to the murder sites as far as I know. Some of them happened in the Gatorwood apts on Archer.
If you take the time to look at the changing chapters of UF it's actually fairly interesting to see why groups have come and gone and why some have failed and succeded.

[ZTAMich]

Somehow I think in 3 years when my sister is making her decisions about college I think I will be pushing for FSU and NOT UF after all this....geez...

edited to add: the above meant w/ much sarcasm as it will of course be my sisters choice where she goes to school...she and I joke about her going to college and stuff so I know what I meant but I just wanted to clarify...

[2017law]

I know the FSU comment was a joke- but they're greek system is FAR WORSE than UF's. While I was at UF 3 chapters at FSU closed.
From what I know of all of the Greek systems in FL, UCF is probably the best and most supportive of all of them.
My sis went to UCF and yes her chapter had the same problems with other chapters spying, crap-talking, and BS that goes along with any Greek system. But she also told me about how when 1 chapter was in need of help so that their nationals wouldn't close them, all of the other chapters rallied around them.
Never in a miilion years would any chapter at UF do that for another.
Sad, but true.
UF Greeks are worried about their chapter and their chapter only.
C

[EM1843]

It does seem to be that we only care about our own chapters here, and we pretty much have to be. The entire system has been based on it for years and it's not going to change overnight. With the way chapters are treated by the Univ. and their nationals, it's supprising that there is as much "Greek Unity" as there is. OH well...
As for the UF greek system being better I'm not so sure about that. The sorority system may be better but but Univ.s fraternity systems have taken hits in recent years.

[Munchkin03]

This post reiterates to me why I did not attend Florida.

Why must it be so difficult? :confused: Do some of the other houses (and Panhel, for that matter) really want Greek Unity?

I thought Rush was going on, or was over, by the time the Gainesville murders occurred. I doubt there's someone on the board who actually was there then. Otherwise, I'll have to dismiss that as urban legend.

[WhiteDaisy128]

Okay, I came from a colony. We colonized the Eta Kappa chapter of DG here at NCSU. We were chartered in November and promised the house would be done by January, in time for informal rush. Then it was announced that the house wouldn't be done until March. And now it will not be done until August. But it WILL be done in August. Anyway, we had to hold informal rush in different rooms around campus and it was a HUGE problem. It would have been so much easier with a "home base." People got the locations mixed up and missed parties...even some of our sisters got the locations mixed up. I'm thankful that when formal rush comes along we will have a house. Cut DZ a break. It's hard to be new somewhere. Like other people said, not having a house in the first place on a good Greek campus is going to hurt them enough! Don't be selfish. It's unbelievably hard to colonize and get things up and going. Everything has to be built from scratch. Plus, on most Greek campuses, certain sororities and certain fraternities tend to pair off. I know at NCSU there are certain sororities that tend to do things with certain fraternities and vice versa. As a new group on campus, it's natural that all the fraternities want to do things with them, including ATO. You just sound selfish by saying you don't think they should be allowed to use their house. Like everyone has said, the girls will know it's not their house...and it'll hurt them enough already. The Greek community is about helping eachother out. ATO is just trying to help.

[33girl]

Here's the actual paragraph from the Alligator (I was getting concerned I misspoke so I got off my duff & searched):

This is not the first time the chapter has recolonized. In 1990, the sorority had difficulty recruiting new members because of the fear of being out at night at the time of the Gainesville murders.

I think this may have been some editorializing on the part of the paper.

[kdonline]

I was at UF from 1985-1989, and I went back during Rush (okay, to party - hey, I was in grad school) from 1989 - 1991.

Pi Phi, who did not have a house at the time, rushed (or at least preffed) at ATO. It might've been AGR at some point - yes, there is a difference between ATO & AGR - but a sorority using ATO back in my days sounds really familiar. Pi Phi was the only group without a house, so i'm pretty sure it was them.

I think after that (early 90s), they rented out the Phi Mu house for a couple of years.

Just so you all know, the ATO house is a block away from the Kappa house - neither are on Sorority (or Fraternity) Row.

AZD had an old house, but they always claimed they were getting a new one. But they had low numbers since the early 80s. They finally DID get their new house in the mid/late 90s, but that couldn't save the chapter.



The murders happened the weekend before classes started - Rush had ended by then. The murders did not affect rush.

[rushqueen44]

I think this may have been some editorializing on the part of the paper.

Thank you. Please people, let's not create moral outrage where there isn't any. I seriously doubt any GLO would tell a student newspaper that this was the sole reason their efforts were not what they had hoped.

[UF56]

I think its fine if we use the ATO house....and just an fyi the ATO house was used for our recruitment in september when we were first colonizing so why wouldnt it be used again? Yall didnt have a problem with it then why now? And if I am not mistaken Panhellenic is made up of girls from every different chapter on campus and they all had to decide where to let us have recruitment, so if the representatives of 15 different sororities on our campus thought it was okay....id say its fair.

[curlygirly]

Originally posted by rushqueen44
This thread is what's wrong with the UF greek community. It's kill or be killed.

Please don't judge UF's ENTIRE greek community by a thread started by ONE member.

I agree that DZ should be given a fair chance at recruitment and holding parties in a fraternity house seems to be the way. UCF has done it for a while, and they've been successful.

The only thing I wonder is how a new chapter participating in rush is going to affect the smaller houses?

Also... if DZ took in about 150 girls for their colony... and there are only a few girls graduating this year.... how will this affect their numbers? If they meet quota the next two years... they're going to be huge, and only negatively affect the smaller houses (as mentioned in a previous rush thread somewhere....)

[WhiteDaisy128]

UF Panhellenic would not have invited DZ to colonize if it would hurt smaller houses...houses must be making quota and at total before they would consider opening up a new house. Panhellenic had to vote to let DZ on campus...so it's their issue. I say, best of luck to them.

[2017law]

Being a UF Greek Alumni I can tell you that there are 2 houses who haven't gotten quota in years and are no where near total.
The big houses were bitching that they were getting too big! That's all that mattered to them and PHC, because the exec board of PHC are from the bigger houses!! The smaller houses didn't matter when I was there and matter even less now. What the big houses don't realize is if the smaller houses close, someone is going to have to take their place at the bottom and oh what a reality check that is going to be.

As I said before, the big houses are getting bigger and the smaller houses are getting smaller.
UF PHC does not give a crap about the smaller houses!!
:mad:

These are facts- from someone who spent four years living it!!!

[aopinthesky]

Originally posted by WhiteDaisy128
UF Panhellenic would not have invited DZ to colonize if it would hurt smaller houses...houses must be making quota and at total before they would consider opening up a new house

I agree that it SHOULD be this way, and I don't know specifically what the situation was at UF, but there is no rule that says all groups must be at total and making quota before expansion occurs, and it does often occur when there are struggling houses, and does often hurt those houses.

[UF56]

hey curlygirly nice to see you still around....hope everything is great for you in kappa. DZ is not made up entirely of 150 freshman. The way the recruiting was done was so that our chapter was made up like most other chapters on campus. If anything we have way more juniors than any other class. There are four seniors actually graduating this semester but there are still like 20 other seniors plus another 20-30 juniors who will all be graduating next year just like every other chapter. So we wont be giagantic...besides a lot of chapters at UF are way bigger than we are with 200-210 members. And I disagree about the heads of panhellenic just coming from the big houses because I know of a couple of girls in panhellenic that are influential that are from the smaller houses. And UF is just like any other school the chapters are cyclic and in the four years I have been here I have seen two chapters in particular go from the middle popularity region to the top and likewise seen two kind of fall in stature. But I honestly believe that UF has a great greek system and being new we have felt very welcome. 154 girls from other chapters signed up to be our big sisters for two weeks and treated us like they would their own within their own chapters. We have been invited to dinner from a couple of other houses and have started planning with other sororities to have social events together next year. We have also felt welcome by the fraternities as well including ones letting us use their houses for banners and events. So maybe a lot of the groups are very about theirselves but it seems many more are doing bigger philanthropies and doing them in groups together and not by theirselves. And if that doesnt isnt unity i dont know what is.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by 2017law
Being a UF Greek Alumni I can tell you that there are 2 houses who haven't gotten quota in years and are no where near total.
The big houses were bitching that they were getting too big! That's all that mattered to them and PHC, because the exec board of PHC are from the bigger houses!! The smaller houses didn't matter when I was there and matter even less now. What the big houses don't realize is if the smaller houses close, someone is going to have to take their place at the bottom and oh what a reality check that is going to be.

As I said before, the big houses are getting bigger and the smaller houses are getting smaller.
UF PHC does not give a crap about the smaller houses!!
:mad:

These are facts- from someone who spent four years living it!!!

I'm sorry to hear that, but to the best of my knowledge, expansion requires a UNANIMOUS vote.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by curlygirly

Also... if DZ took in about 150 girls for their colony... and there are only a few girls graduating this year.... how will this affect their numbers? If they meet quota the next two years... they're going to be huge, and only negatively affect the smaller houses (as mentioned in a previous rush thread somewhere....)

But remember that even if they only have a few girls graduating this year and next . . . they could have a hundred girls graduate the year after that! :eek: Even if they do pick up quota the next two years, they might be big for a couple years, but it will even out by the time you graduate, so I wouldn't worry too much about their size.

I think DZ may have some trouble attracting girls because of their lack of a house, however. Even if they're having a gorgeous one being built, most girls want to live in when they're sophomores or juniors . . . not seniors. If the house won't be built for a few more years, girls may bypass DZ for that reason alone.

[kdonline]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I think DZ may have some trouble attracting girls because of their lack of a house, however. Even if they're having a gorgeous one being built, most girls want to live in when they're sophomores or juniors . . . not seniors. If the house won't be built for a few more years, girls may bypass DZ for that reason alone.

Yes, you're right about this point. Some girls want to join a sorority that has a house, a campus tradition, etc. But other girls like the excitement of starting something "all new".

I know I keep saying this, but when I was @ UF in the 80s, Pi Beta Phi did not have a house. Twenty years later (yes, I know, sounds like a long time), they have the most modern house of all sororities and are still going strong. :)

[dzandiloo]

Originally posted by DeltaBetaBaby
I'm sorry to hear that, but to the best of my knowledge, expansion requires a UNANIMOUS vote.

This varies by campus. The by-laws of the campus Panhellenic Council govern this...it is quite often a 2/3rds vote. The school in my current home town follows this rule. For them to expand, 7 of the 11 existing sororities would have to vote affirmatively. Sooo, it is quite possible that a very small house could be out-voted by the groups that are way over total and obvsiously quite strong.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by dzandiloo
This varies by campus. The by-laws of the campus Panhellenic Council govern this...it is quite often a 2/3rds vote. The school in my current home town follows this rule. For them to expand, 7 of the 11 existing sororities would have to vote affirmatively. Sooo, it is quite possible that a very small house could be out-voted by the groups that are way over total and obvsiously quite strong.

I stand corrected. Either way, however, I think that bringing a new group is good for everyone, if the smallest group can stick it out a few years.

[Floridagirl]

This is ridiculous! The UF campus is the most competivie campus I have ever seen. And I have seen a lot. Because Gainesville is such a small town and there aren't even enough jobs for the people who want them, the Greeks have way too much social prominence. So now we have this perverse Greek world at that campus. WHO CARES WHERE THE DZs HAVE THEIR RUSH? If they want to have it in the middle of the street, who cares? They are new and need to have it in a house to be more like the other groups. GIVE IT A REST!!!

[aopinthesky]

Originally posted by DeltaBetaBaby
I stand corrected. Either way, however, I think that bringing a new group is good for everyone, if the smallest group can stick it out a few years.

The problem is that the smallest group often can't stick it out. The overall health of all groups should be considered before expansion happens. Sadly, this is not always the case and the smallest just get smaller.

[G8Ralphaxi]

OK, I haven't posted in a very long time, but just felt compelled to do so after reading several of these posts.

I was a member of the Alpha Xi Delta chapter at UF, rushing in 1996. I was very involved with the chapter, and knew a lot of our alumnae from the 1980s and earlier 1990s. My senior year was the last year we were active before our national's horrendously mismanaged attempt at recolonization.

(basically I'm just establishing that anything I say here is from my own first-hand personal observations, not the endless chains of hearsay and rumor upon which several of you are relying)

1. We did NOT try to blame any problems we had in 1990 on the Gainesville murders. At least not any of my sisters. Either the Alligator made that up, or they were misinformed by someone from Nationals who didn't know S*** about Gainesville or our chapter. (not the first time)

2. The AGR house is NOT appropriate for sorority rush. Fun bunch of guys, but the house is basically a collection of small concrete rooms. It is a small dingy house. If you tried to put more than 50 people in any of the common rooms, you'd have a problem. WTF is DZ supposed to do with 150 of their own members, then the 100s of rushees?

3. everything that has been said about UF being competitive is not true. IT'S WORSE THAN THEY HAVE SAID. let me tell you, it's a really fun experience to see my roommate, who was a rho chi, crying hysterically on Bid Day because several of the other rho chis told the whole rushee group that we were in trouble and being closed down. Not true.

The houses are all out for blood and pounce at the first sign of weakness. The only houses that I remember not showing this too much were the upper-upper echelon that knew their spots on the totem pole were pretty safe. The worst houses of all were the ones in the middle.

And forget being supportive of smaller houses. One of the previous Greek advisors (that charming guy who fled town after being "outed") actually told our chapter president that he wanted to improve UF's greek system by "weeding out" the weaker houses if they couldn't step it up, including ours.

4. Regarding our old chapter house...oh what a mess. I blame Nationals, and always will. Don't promise a chapter a house and not deliver. For years, the women in our chapter were promised a great house that would compare to others at UF. Then, when construction started, for some reason the 3 story house that was planned was suddenly only 2 stories, and the back wing was not going to be built. We didn't have a chapter room, and the residential areas were not up to par. Definitely the smallest bedrooms of any sorority house on campus. The entire house was one big illustration of low-bid construction. Somehow in between the planning stages and the construction, someone had decided that we weren't worthy of a better house.

So now visualize rush in the late 1990s - you are rushing and have just been to XYZ, and they have a huge, beautifully decorated chapter house, large sprawling front lawn, rich wood furniture, nice bedrooms, etc. Then you come see our house, with the folding tables in the dining room and the closet sized bedrooms.

Every year, we would work really hard to get sisters to live in the house, and have to do a lottery to fill the house. Without fail, several would get picked in the lottery and decide to either go ahead and pay rent but refuse to live there or to just give up and turn in their pins. Let's think about this - either way, morale is screwed up. Paying rent for a room you don't use causes resentment, and losing a sister for something like housing is such a headache. Plus, as many of you know, if one person leaves, it makes it that much more likely that their best friends in the house may leave one day too. Many other houses on campus had waiting lists, sisters desperate to live in the house.

If you are going to build a house that has NO CHANCE of competing at UF, DON'T build it. Wait, save more money, make a new plan, or just never build at all. For the sake of the new DZ chapter, I hope that their chapter builds them a beautiful house that is worthy of them.

5. NOW...as to all the lovely speculation and rumors about why we closed down...

NONE OF YOU WERE THERE. NONE OF YOU WERE EVER MEMBERS OF MY CHAPTER. Even those of you that "think you know something" because you know an Alpha Xi that's still in undergrad at UF, YOU DON'T KNOW. There were many events that happened right before I joined and during my first few years that effected things more than anything at the end.

None of our troubles were ever related to anything disciplinary, EVER. We were never on any kind of probation, either with UF or Nationals.

We were a great chapter. When I rushed, I was struck by how real and genuine everyone was. This was a wonderfully enthusiastic group, the exact definition of what everyone on this website says a sorority is supposed to be. When I joined, we were just under chapter total, and were a very close-knit, fun group.

Then, in between my freshman and sophomore year, our new Regional Advisor (who shall remain nameless, although she really doesn't deserve that courtesy.) decided that we weren't doing things just right. She had driven our Membership VP (aka rush chair) nuts all year, and finally abused her so badly (refusing to approve even minor details and lying about budgets) that the girl finally quit. Turned in her pin and took a whole group of people with her. Then our charming Advisor handpicked the new MVP - a sophomore who had never been through rush on the sorority side before. I think she picked that girl because she thought she could push her around.

So basically, rush my sophomore year was sheer chaos. Everyone came back from summer still hurt that the old MVP had been run off and most of the girls who had left were supposed to live in the house - a sudden loss of a couple $1000 in rent funds.

Now let's throw all that in the psycho rumor mill at UF. Oh man, rush was fun that year.

basically, we spent the next few years trying to recover from that one disastrous summer. Every time we turned around, something else went wrong. Our fun fun advisor kept adding new restrictions - ones that other chapters at UF, or even other Alpha Xi chapters never had. Try explaining to new members why they can't go to that fraternity event, or we can't have functions outside of Gainesville, when all their friends in other sororities can.

We weren't allowed access to our own money, but then she would push the House Corp into spending $1000s on things we didn't want or need. (we got new wallpaper even though the stuff that was there was only 2 years old and still fine, new tablecloths that were so shoddily made that they were ruined the first time they were washed, new plants but they refused to fix the sprinklers so they died, etc.)

This charming lady actually personally pursued several sisters and tried to drive them out of the house, sometimes successfully. These were sisters who had done nothing wrong except dare to speak back to this dragon lady. Again, every time someone leaves there's a domino effect - others consider leaving with them, and those that are left feel hurt.

So now we have a genuine numbers problem. We beg Nationals for help. They sent us one little lonely advisor my junior year - a chick who had just graduated, had ZERO advising experience, and spent hours on her computer emailing her buddies. The girl had the intelligence of your average houseplant. She also charmingly kept telling us that when she rushed, Tri Delt was her first choice, but Alpha Xi was ok so she stayed. Thanks for the inspiration, you retard.

We found out later that alumnae had been wanting to send us money or come volunteer, but our favorite b***h advisor had been telling them not to, that we "weren't deserving of such help yet." We finally caught on because one of the ladies to whom she said such things was the grandmother of an active sister.

In the end, we spent about 2 years working like crazy trying to help our numbers, through rush and COB. Uphill battle all the way. Even during rush, they WOULD NOT let us select our own sisters. The last 2 years, they completely took over and wouldn't let us drop girls with toxic personalities and made us ask back embarrassing numbers. Those of you that know UF know that you can't ask back everyone - it just looks bad. We wanted to drop the rushees taht didn't fit with the personality of the house, or were clearly going elsewhere. Why look desperate by asking back rushees that would not be happy with us, and risk turning off rushees who would?

Finally, during my last semester as an undergrad, we voted to close ourselves down. We took a chapter vote, and told our nationals that we were NOT going to try anymore to bring any more sisters into our chapter. We voluntarily closed ourselves down at the end of the semester.

I'm not meaning to sugarcoat things - all of these problems did cause stress within the house. The sisterhood within the house were obviously affected by all of these events. But, even to the end, we had something good going on. My best friend in the entire world is a sister. Despite everything, I don't think I would trade it for anything. I just wish some of the external stresses hadn't so adversely affected the chapter.

...ok that's it. a rather long rant, but cathartic for me. I've been in Gainesville straight since 1996 (in grad school now), and every single time my house has been mentioned in the last 3 -4 years, it just seems that no one has the story right.

G8Ralphaxi
proud member of the Zeta Omicron Chapter of Alpha Xi Delta

[DGMarie]

It is nice to set things straight and even more refreshing to have someone who was actually there come right out and tell it like it was. I wish there were more like you on GC. I hope everyone can learn from your sorority's experiences.

[kddani]

I agree with DGMarie

Applause to G8Ralphaxi for telling it like it is and setting everyone straight.

[Munchkin03]

I'm surprised that during this whole thing, no one has questioned the total lack of journalistic integrity on the part of the Alligator. I don't think anyone said AXD used the murders as an excuse.

[kddani]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
I'm surprised that during this whole thing, no one has questioned the total lack of journalistic integrity on the part of the Alligator. I don't think anyone said AXD used the murders as an excuse.

i'm a pretty firm believer that "journalistic integrity" is an oxymoron...... ESPECIALLY in college papers

[Peaches-n-Cream]

G8Ralphaxi, I am sorry that your chapter went through so much.

[33girl]

G8ralphaxi,
Thanks so much for your honest reply. I certainly didn't mean to imply you guys had said that - just that I didn't understand the reference in the paper.
As long as you still enjoy and foster the friendships that you made, you have won in the end. A house is not a home, as Luther so eloquently said.
"33"

[kellbell]

With all the talk about fairness and recruitment at ATO house, I would like to make a side comment and say GOOD LUCK TO THE DELTA ZETA LADIES! as well as the rest of Panhellenic. I hope that everyone can put the actual place of recrutiment aside and work together and have respect for other chapters during the most important time of the year.

[UF56]

On Behalf of the Pi Alpha chapter THANKS kellbell!!! :D

[kellbell]

;) I actually met two DZ girls from UF at SEPC...I don't remember their names, but they were wonderful and so friendly! I know y'all will do fantastic in recruitment! I'm from UT Knoxville and I remember them talking with a DZ here about recruitment stuff (haha-we were in the bathroom and ended up using my lip pencil for them to exchange emails! :D )

[maggieaxid]

At Elon when a new org is recognized they have to go unhoused in the greek courts for 1 year. however, they do have a suite floor in one of the other buildings. of course you can't hold recruitment in them! Panhel, IFC and NPHC have always cooperated with one another in regards to allowing chapters to have recruitment in the different houses, allow the rho chis & pnms to use their bathrooms and to get out of the rain or bad weather.
in the past sigma kappa held rush in the sigma chi house, AXO held their parties in the kappa sigma house, phi mu has held them in the sigma pi house and AZD has held them both in the KA and LXA houses. and the ladies of AKA were always extremely hospitible to the Rho Chis as a break house.
But these houses are also all owned by the school and that may make a difference, but i simply don't see what the big deal is. when the houses were being built and other houses were used pnm's never assumed that these were the houses they were going to live in, and it was constantly said and reminded at all parties and at panhel functions.

[FAUNikki]

I know that this thread is a couple months old, but I wanted to add some coments. Phi Sig was at UF in the past. Established in 1967. Beta Psi chapter. They didnt have a house. Closed in the 80s due to low # (they didnt have a house). Re-opened a little while later maybe mid/late 80s. Then closed in the mid/late 90s. I know of the latests alum from '95 so I dont know exactly when they closed. They closed again because they were the only ones without a house. They STILL to this day own property. I am not sure why, perhaps a current or past UF student may know?? Are they planning on coming back again?!?! It is right near sororoity row, near the college of education.
I feel that if a sorority is the onyl one without a house, they do suffer! Anyone that has more info, please PM me, I would like to know. I have been up to UF many times (my boyfriend went there and so I was up there twice a month for 2 & 1/2 years). Thanks!

[kdonline]

Originally posted by FAUNikki
I know that this thread is a couple months old, but I wanted to add some coments. Phi Sig was at UF in the past. Established in 1967. Beta Psi chapter. They didnt have a house. Closed in the 80s due to low # (they didnt have a house). Re-opened a little while later maybe mid/late 80s.

I think you have the dates mixed up. My sister & I were @ UF in the 80s (she was there 82-85, I was there 85-89). Phi Sig was not there during this time.

They must've been there in the 70s...and then tried to recolonize in the 90s.

There were 2 sororities that truly DID have number trouble from the early 80s to the 90s. Alpha Xi Delta gave their all trying to stay open. And Phi Mu closed in about 1986, and then reopened in the early 90s.