Pentagon: 3 Months in Iraq Cost $14B [Archive]

CrimsonTide4

03-17-2003, 09:39 PM

Bush Gives Saddam 48 Hours to Flee Iraq
20 minutes ago

By RON FOURNIER, AP White House Correspondent

WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) on Monday gave Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) a 48-hour deadline to flee Iraq (news - web sites) or face a U.S.-led invasion, saying American forces will wage war "at a time of our choosing."

The president, commander in chief of 250,000 U.S. troops poised at the borders of Iraq, addressed the nation at 8 p.m. EST.

In the White House speech, Bush said the U.S. tried to resolve the crisis peacefully, but "we are not dealing with peaceful men."

An intense White House debate over whether to establish a timetable was settled hours before the president's speech.

"It boils down to the president is giving Saddam Hussein 48 hours to get out of town," Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., said after he and other lawmakers met with the president and his advisers at the White House earlier. Skelton said of the likelihood of Saddam leaving, "I don't think he will. I don't think anyone thinks he will."

"The diplomatic window has now been closed," White House spokesman Ari Fleischer (news - web sites) declared Monday morning, just 12 hours after Bush's return from an Atlantic island summit with his allies from Britain and Spain.

A quick round of telephone calls Sunday night and Monday morning confirmed what aides said Bush had concluded before the summit: The allies' U.N. resolution was doomed to fail.

He ordered the measure withdrawn to avoid an embarrassing defeat, then gave the go-ahead for a long-planned ultimatum address.

The American public, by a 2-1 margin, generally supports military action against Iraq to remove Saddam, a slight increase from recent weeks, according to a CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll out Monday. Opinion was evenly divided when people were asked about an attack without an attempt to gain U.N. backing.

Bush asked Australia to participate in a "coalition of the willing" preparing for war against Iraq, Prime Minister John Howard said.

White House and congressional sources said Bush intends to send Congress a bill seeking more than $70 billion to pay for the war.

Seven months ago, Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) helped persuade Bush to seek U.N. approval for military action despite the objections of anti-Saddam hawks like Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites).

His diplomacy derailed, Powell sounded ready to turn to war. "The moment of truth is arriving," said the retired Army general was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the 1991 Persian Gulf War (news - web sites) led by Bush's father.

He said the only way war could be avoided was for "Saddam Hussein and his immediate cohorts to leave the country."

Senior White House officials said they did not expect Saddam to seek exile. Thus, Bush planned to be at war within a matter of days, they said.

Powell suggested that even an 11th-hour effort by Saddam to disarm wouldn't avoid war.

"I can think of nothing Saddam Hussein could do diplomatically," he said. "He had his chance."

ladygreek

03-17-2003, 11:47 PM

do they think that Iraq is just going to sit and twiddle their thumbs for 48 hours waiting for us to attack? They have enuf notice to hit us first. We have backed Saddam into a corner with no way to save face. It doesn't seem to me he is someone who is just going to say "Okay, okay, you win. I'm going into exile now." :(

RedefinedDiva

03-18-2003, 12:58 AM

WHAT MAKES BUSH THINK THAT THIS MAN IS GOING TO LEAVE HIS COUNTRY? What if some folks didn't agree with our way of life, as they have already shown, and came over here trying to force us to conform to their standards? How can Bush tell those people that their way of life is wrong?

You know, it has NOT been proven to a great enough degree for me to believe that they have these horrific weapons of mass destruction. If they do have them, they have not had the balls to use them yet. However, now that their hands have been forced and have NOTHING to lose, if they do have them, what is going to stop them from using them now? Saddam is not going to wait. If he does, I will applaud him. Why? Because I beat he is saying the same thing that I am thinking, "What are you going to do?" I would sit and see if he is as 'bout it as he says he is. But you know what? A LOT of people will die behind this madness. The large part will be Iraqi civilians. But of the American casualties, it will be young sistas and brothas. The Armed Forces are loaded with young men and women of all races and they are on the front lines.

I, like so many of you, have friends and family over there. If they aren't gone yet, I am sure that more of our peeps will be shipped out in the days and weeks to come. Hopefully, the harsh realities of war won't touch home soil. If so, I don't know what I will do. I am too young to die. Even if I were 90, I would still be too young. If it were a DAMN good cause, I wouldn't be so afraid. However, this is NOT one of those causes....

What is we gon' do? (my new signature :p)

Honeykiss1974

03-18-2003, 01:22 AM

Right now, there is a full moon over the Iraqi skies. We will not go in to attack under a full moon (too much light-we prefer the cover of darkness).

And there you have it folks, the reason behind that 48 hour crap?

Bush is so full of ish! I don't know whether to be mad, sad, or just plain disenchanted.

I think this year, I will volunteer on a presidential campaign committee.

NOWorNEVER

03-18-2003, 01:47 AM

Just pray y'all. Just pray. :(

1savvydiva

03-18-2003, 04:10 AM

Originally posted by NOWorNEVER
Just pray y'all. Just pray. :(

That pretty much sums it all up!:(

Koss28

03-18-2003, 09:54 AM

The kicker is that a majority of Americans support the war initiative. When I ask coworkers why, they pretty much recite what Bush has said. They have no opinions of their own. But then, I shouldn't expect much from people who watch The Bachelor instead of the news or can't even find Iraq on a map or better yet, would rather be petty and call the French names instead of truly respecting their opposition and finding another solution within the framework of the UN.

Confucius

03-18-2003, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by Koss28
The kicker is that a majority of Americans support the war initiative. When I ask coworkers why, they pretty much recite what Bush has said. They have no opinions of their own. But then, I shouldn't expect much from people who watch The Bachelor instead of the news or can't even find Iraq on a map or better yet, would rather be petty and call the French names instead of truly respecting their opposition and finding another solution within the framework of the UN.

I am thinking the same thing when I look at some of these polls. I am like, "Who are these people polling?"

Then Bush is like, "Saddam and his immediate family and officials have 48 hours to leave Iraq." Saddam is like, "Why don't you leave your country?" WTF:mad: :rolleyes:

ClassyLady

03-18-2003, 04:35 PM

I watched the address last night and never have I seen someone be so obvious when reading his words off of a teleprompter. At least try to memorize your lines. :rolleyes:

cricket

03-18-2003, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Confucius
I am thinking the same thing when I look at some of these polls. I am like, "Who are these people polling?"

I just LOVE the fact that a sample of 506 adults is representative of the 250,000,000 people in this country :rolleyes:

punctualyr@hotm

03-18-2003, 08:15 PM

It is sad that the our country is giving Saddam Hussein 48hrs to disarm. Who are we to tell anyone to leave his/her country. All this war and rumors of war is a foreshadow of our fate which is yet to come. In Deuteronomy 2, the Israelites wanted to go up into the hills to fight the Amorites, but the Lord said unto Moses: "Say unto them, Go not up, neither fight; for I am NOT among you; lest ye be smitten before your enemies". Although we are the world's superpower, anything is possible when there is war. We could win, we could lose. America is desperate to keep her crown. All her currencies state: "In God We Trust"; yet she has forgotten that the same God who she trusts has already said in Ecclesiates that "To everything there is a season...". We need to stop bullying other nations and stop focusing on how we can "keep" our crown. We need to focus on how we can make peace. We cannot use war to make peace, which is what our President is doing. I mean...How can you fight fire with fire and expect to get water? So how can we use war to make peace? The lord has allowed America to rule for so long. However, she cannot do more than her time. All the superpowers that were before her has fallen. There's no reason for her to think that the battle with Iraq is hers'.
In St. Mark 13, "...one of his disciples said...Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! And Jesus...said..., Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down...And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; FOR IN THOSE DAYS SHALL BE AFFLICTION, SUCH AS WAS NOT FROM THE BEGINNING OF CREATION WHICH GOD CREATED UNTO THIS TIME, NEITHER SHALL BE". This world is not meant to be forever. All earthy things are temporary, including POWER. All I can say to everyone is to watch and pray, put on the whole armor of God, and choose who you will serve this day. I'm not saying that we will lose the battle to Iraq, but as I said earlier everything that's going on is a surety that our season is yet to come. We claim that we are the "United States of America", but we're not united. Therefore, a house divided against itself will not stand. Eventually this house will reap not only what she sows from the outside but also from the inside. People, wake up and pay attention to the time in which we live. Rev 17v10: "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other not yet come..." Which king is next? Whatever is meant to be, will be. We just have to fear the Lord with all our hearts'.

AH

Wonderful1908

03-18-2003, 10:46 PM

I don't see why anyone is upset or surprised this is what happens when you mix an idiot who did not win the election, a "go to war" free card from congress, a poor economy and the speaking skills that deliver such statements as"he tried to kill my Daddy". As an American I told my class today that what makes this so bad is my opinion does not matter but I have to walk around on terror alert orange. An administration that creates color charts to determine my safety is at this point what I expect. I got a chart for George W:

:( Blue- Moderate Stupidity (mention Bin Laden when brain is stumped)
:eek: Violet- Stupidity- (Use WOMD and Bin Laden plus if all else fails mention God when brain is stumped)
:confused: Yellow- Idiot- (Have Colin answer all the hard questions, if this whole thing doesn't work I can blame him)
:cool: Orange- Irrational Idiot- (Pull out the big guns, make a stand and hope Saddam folds, if not blow the region up, except the oil)
:::o Red- George W. Bush at this moment- (Continue smoking his crack cocaine because that is what he must be doing to make these type of decisions)

I am disgusted at American politics right now!!! :mad: :mad:

Confucius

03-19-2003, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by Wonderful1908
I don't see why anyone is upset or surprised this is what happens when you mix an idiot who did not win the election, a "go to war" free card from congress, a poor economy and the speaking skills that deliver such statements as"he tried to kill my Daddy". As an American I told my class today that what makes this so bad is my opinion does not matter but I have to walk around on terror alert orange. An administration that creates color charts to determine my safety is at this point what I expect. I got a chart for George W:

:( Blue- Moderate Stupidity (mention Bin Laden when brain is stumped)
:eek: Violet- Stupidity- (Use WOMD and Bin Laden plus if all else fails mention God when brain is stumped)
:confused: Yellow- Idiot- (Have Colin answer all the hard questions, if this whole thing doesn't work I can blame him)
:cool: Orange- Irrational Idiot- (Pull out the big guns, make a stand and hope Saddam folds, if not blow the region up, except the oil)
:::o Red- George W. Bush at this moment- (Continue smoking his crack cocaine because that is what he must be doing to make these type of decisions)

I am disgusted at American politics right now!!! :mad: :mad:

LMAO!!!

Koss28

03-19-2003, 11:23 AM

FeeFee

03-19-2003, 05:25 PM

http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CA01

WTH happened to 48 hours????
:eek: :mad: :mad: :(

CrimsonTide4

03-19-2003, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by FeeFee
http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CA01

WTH happened to 48 hours????
:eek: :mad: :mad: :(

You know BUSH is not good with numbers. :(

Steeltrap

03-19-2003, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Gyrl7
I am soooo sick of Bush, I am really considering voting for Al Sharpton, just to get his a$$ outta office.........:rolleyes:

Great sentiment, but the Rev.'s not electable because of his history and the fact that the country's moved right and I don't see people voting to have their taxes go up.

The best shot of getting Bush out is to find Clinton II -- a technocrat, pro-business, socially moderate Demo.

CrimsonTide4

03-19-2003, 05:44 PM

Here's my question, I don't normally talk about this: What will determine who is the winner of this war? I mean really. Of course, there is no REAL WINNER but what will the winner get? Does Bush not realize that even if he succeeds in killing Bin Laden, Saddam, etc. that they have followers and people who support these men who will continue their legacies?

Bush is stupid. It's like he might as well have put I AM COMING FOR YOU on WEDNESDAY on a bulletin board.

Ideal08

03-19-2003, 06:15 PM

Ok, so the White House has warned Americans to prepare for loss of life OF TROOPS. Do we need to be prepared for loss of life OVER HERE????????? Yall, I'm scared. I am trying not to be, but I am SCARED. Like, I'm crying. :( I just want to go home. I've NEVER wanted to go home so bad in my life. I WANT TO GO HOME!!!!!

But at the same time, I have to think about my girls. I don't want to incite panic in them by just jetting and going home. But I don't think they truly understand exactly what could happen. I can't BELIEVE that they haven't thought of sending these kids home. We have emergency plans and what not, but wtf? What are we waiting on? If I were a parent, I would've been came and got my kid. Day school (MAYBE) and that's it. But they d@mn sure wouldn't be spending the night away from home.

And then this curfew??????? You want me to stay in the house while who knows what happens? I'm ready to go home. This is all a bunch of BS. All of it.

CrimsonTide4

03-19-2003, 06:18 PM

(((((((((IDEAL08)))))))))))

Giving my girl a hug.
Be not afraid. God will take care of you. He knows the end from the beginning (I sound like my mother :o)

Steeltrap

03-19-2003, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by Ideal08
Ok, so the White House has warned Americans to prepare for loss of life OF TROOPS. Do we need to be prepared for loss of life OVER HERE????????? Yall, I'm scared. I am trying not to be, but I am SCARED. Like, I'm crying. :( I just want to go home. I've NEVER wanted to go home so bad in my life. I WANT TO GO HOME!!!!!

But at the same time, I have to think about my girls. I don't want to incite panic in them by just jetting and going home. But I don't think they truly understand exactly what could happen. I can't BELIEVE that they haven't thought of sending these kids home. We have emergency plans and what not, but wtf? What are we waiting on? If I were a parent, I would've been came and got my kid. Day school (MAYBE) and that's it. But they d@mn sure wouldn't be spending the night away from home.

And then this curfew??????? You want me to stay in the house while who knows what happens? I'm ready to go home. This is all a bunch of BS. All of it.

Be strong, Soror, for your girls. They need you.
:)

Ideal08

03-19-2003, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Steeltrap
Be strong, Soror, for your girls. They need you.
:)

Soror, TRUST, that is the ONLY thing keeping me here.

Carla, thanks for the hug, girl, I needed that! I wish you were really here. :(

CrimsonTide4

03-19-2003, 10:55 PM

Air Raid Sirens, Planes Heard in Baghdad
2 minutes ago

By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Anti-aircraft fire and explosions were heard across Baghdad after air raid sirens went off in the capital at dawn Thursday.

An American-led invasion force of 300,000 troops awaited the order to strike. U.S. and British forces massed in the Kuwaiti desert close to the Iraqi border, giant B-52 warplanes were loaded with bombs and Tomahawk missile-carrying ships were in position, all awaiting an attack order from Bush.

The deadline came at 8 p.m. EST, which was 4 a.m. Thursday in Baghdad, its population shrunken in recent days by an exodus of thousands of fearful residents.

"The disarmament of the Iraqi regime will begin at a time of the president's choosing," said his press secretary, Ari Fleischer (news - web sites), moments after 8 p.m. "The American people are ready for the disarmament of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites). They understand what's at stake. The military is ready, the nation is ready and the cause is just."

Just after the deadline, White House chief of staff Andrew Card informed the president that intelligence officials had no information that Saddam had left Iraq (news - web sites).

Saddam's regime gave every appearance of digging in.

In the minutes after the deadline, Iraqi TV showed footage of a pro-Saddam march Tuesday in Baghdad, with members of the crowd chanting pro-Saddam slogans, some brandishing rifles and carrying pictures of Saddam.

"We are dedicated to martyrdom in defense of Iraq under your leadership," a loyal Iraqi parliament assured the Iraqi dictator, and armed members of the ruling Baath party deployed behind hundreds of sandbagged defensive positions in Baghdad.

Even so, 17 Iraqi soldiers surrendered to American GIs during the day, eager to give up before the shooting started.

Bush met periodically throughout the day with his top aides at the White House and sent formal notice to Congress that reliance on "further diplomatic and other peaceful means alone" would not suffice to counter "the continuing threat posed by Iraq."

Fleischer, said the nation "ought to be prepared for the loss" of American lives once the military effort begins to depose Saddam and recover weapons of mass destruction.

Aides said the commander in chief would decide on timing based on the advice of his military commanders.

More than 25 protesters were arrested outside the White House, part of a larger group of demonstrators that chanted, banged drums and carried signs that read, "Stop the War on Iraq."

It seemed unlikely in the extreme.

Along with the U.S.-led force approaching 300,000 troops massed in the Persian Gulf region were 1,000 combat aircraft and five aircraft carrier battle groups. The United States claims the public and private support of 45 other nations in a coalition to topple Saddam. But only Britain, with about 40,000 troops, was making a sizable contribution to the military force.

In a run-up to war, U.S. aircraft also dropped nearly 2 million leaflets over southern Iraq with a variety of messages, including, for the first time, instructions to Iraqi troops on how to capitulate to avoid being killed.

Hundreds of miles away, at an air base in England, crews loaded bombs aboard giant B-52 combat aircraft.

Apart from the desire to capture weapons of mass destruction, Bush's submission to Congress said a military attack could lead to the discovery of information that would allow the apprehension of terrorists living in the United States. An attack, it said, "is a vital part of the international war on terrorism."

Despite deep divisions at the United Nations (news - web sites), Bush also claimed "the authority — indeed, given the dangers involved, the duty — to use force against Iraq to protect the security of the American people and to compel compliance with United Nations resolutions."

The diplomatic wheels turned still at the United Nations where foreign ministers were meeting in the Security Council at the request of the French and Germans, prominent critics of the American military operation.

"This is a sad day for the United Nations," said the organization's secretary general, Kofi Annan (news - web sites) said. "I know that millions of people around the world share this sense of disappointment and are deeply alarmed."

Bush abandoned diplomacy on Monday, and administration officials blamed French intransigence for the lack of consensus on a new Security Council resolution that would have given Saddam an ultimatum.

The signs of imminent conflict were abundant.

Israel ordered its citizens to start carrying their gas masks to work and to school. And hundreds of Israeli residents fled Tel Aviv, fearful that Iraq would launch missiles against their seaside city, as happened in the 1991 Persian Gulf War (news - web sites).

Royal Jordanian — the only commercial airline with regularly scheduled flights to Baghdad — said it was canceling them in anticipation of war.

And Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak (news - web sites) offered a dual-edged analysis. He blamed Iraq for the approaching military conflict. But he also said he hoped that "different international forces will realize the dangerous repercussions of any military action on the safety and stability of the Middle East region."

Another country in the region, Bahrain, publicly offered exile to Saddam "in a dignified manner that should not be seen as undermining Iraq's position and capabilities."

"It's the last-hour chance and we hope that Iraq will accept this offer to avoid war," Information Minister Nabil al-Hamer told The Associated Press.

Exile for the Iraqi leader "is absolutely unthinkable," said Saadoon Hammadi, speaker of Iraq's parliament.

"He will be in front of everyone. He will fight and guide our country to victory."

CrimsonTide4

03-19-2003, 11:03 PM

U.S. Launches Iraq War, White House Says :(
4 minutes ago 9:54P.M. EST

WASHINGTON - The United States launched war against Iraq (news - web sites) on Wednesday. "The opening stages of the disarmament of the Iraqi regime have begun," White House press secretary Ari Fleischer (news - web sites) said.

Wonderful1908

03-19-2003, 11:15 PM

I wonder what God is thinking, this has to make him sad.:(
I will continue to pray, thats all I can do at this point.

Koss28

03-20-2003, 09:40 AM

I was listening to the Tom Joyner Morning show today and Al Sharpton was on. He pretty much ripped Bush a new one but he did bring up one key point. "This is what our voting apathy has brought us." If we don't vote and get politically involved in some way, we can't complain. Sad but true...:(

D.COM

03-20-2003, 12:49 PM

The media keeps talking about if the first bombing killed Saddam and his officials, etc. I REALLY hate it when the media keeps "assuming" or "hoping" that that is what happened. JUST SAY THE FACTS! If they DID NOT kill him, then DON'T KEEP talking about it LIKE IF IT DID HAPPEN! The media are the SAME people who said that Bin Laden may have been killed, blah, blah, blah, and then what happened? He's still alive....you see? You get people's hopes up or begin rumors. It's NOT that easy to just go over there and kill a "leader."

Here are some thoughts I found on this war (not necessarily MY views):

http://www.digitalvalleyhosting.com/GC/reason.jpg

http://www.digitalvalleyhosting.com/GC/map.gif

http://www.digitalvalleyhosting.com/GC/sit.jpg

http://www.digitalvalleyhosting.com/GC/link.jpg

http://www.digitalvalleyhosting.com/GC/Geography.gif

Confucius

03-20-2003, 03:00 PM

D.Com,

The cartoons may not be your views but they are mine.:mad: I just pray to God that this war will be quick and that not many soldiers or Iraqi citizens die.:(

D.COM

03-20-2003, 03:06 PM

Right...I said MAY not be my views because I did not want to get into the topic too much. Maybe I should say MAY or MAY NOT be my views instead. I just thought the pics were funny and were a good depiction of most people's point of view.

DELTABRAT

03-20-2003, 06:24 PM

George W. Bush

1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC

Dear Governor Bush:

So today is what you call "the moment of truth," the day that "France and the rest of world have to show their cards on the table." I'm glad to hear that this day has finally arrived. Because, I gotta tell ya, having survived 440 days of your lying and conniving, I wasn't sure if I could take much more. So I'm glad to hear that today is Truth Day, 'cause I got a few truths

I would like to share with you:

1. There is virtually NO ONE in America (talk radio nutters and Fox News aside) who is gung-ho to go to war. Trust me on this one. Walk out of the White House and on to any street in America and try to find five peoplewho are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON'T FIND THEM! Why?
'Cause NO Iraqis have ever come here and killed any of us! No Iraqi has even threatened to do that. You see, this is how we average Americans think:
If a certain so-and-so is not perceived as a threat to our lives, then, believe it or not, we don't want to kill him! Funny how that works!

2. The majority of Americans -- the ones who never elected you -- are not fooled by your weapons of mass distraction. We know what the real issues are that affect our daily lives -- and none of them begin with I or end in Q.

Here's what threatens us: two and a half million jobs lost since you took office, the stock market having become a cruel joke, no one knowing if their retirement funds are going to be there, gas now costs almost two dollars the list goes on and on. Bombing Iraq will not make any of this go away. Only you need to go away for things to improve.

3. As Bill Maher said last week, how bad do you have to suck to lose a popularity contest with Saddam Hussein? The whole world is against you, Mr. Bush. Count your fellow Americans among them.

4. The Pope has said this war is wrong, that it is a SIN. The Pope! But even worse, the Dixie Chicks have now come out against you! How bad does it have to get before you realize that you are an army of one on this war? Of course, this is a war you personally won't have to fight. Just like when you went AWOL while the poor were shipped to Vietnam in your place.

5. Of the 535 members of Congress, only ONE (Sen. Johnson of South Dakota) has an enlisted son or daughter in the armed forces! If you really want to stand up for America, please send your twin daughters over to Kuwait right now and let them don their chemical warfare suits. And let's see every member of Congress with a child of military age also sacrifice their kids for this war effort. What's that you say? You don't THINK so? Well, hey, guess what -- we don't think so either!

6. Finally, we love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups. Yes, some of them can be pretty damn annoying. But have you forgotten we wouldn't even have this country known as America if it weren't for the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it for us? That our greatest thinkers and founding fathers -- Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin,etc. -- spent many years in Paris where they refined the concepts that
lead to our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution? That it was France who gave us our Statue of Liberty, a Frenchman who built the Chevrolet, and a pair of French brothers who invented the movies? And now they are doing what only a good friend can do -- tell you the truth about yourself, straight, no b.s. Quit pissing on the French and thank them for getting
it right for once. You know, you really should have traveled more (like once) before you took over. Your ignorance of the world has not only made you look stupid, it has painted you into a corner you can't get out of. Well, cheer up -- there IS good news. If you do go through with this war, more than likely it will be over soon because I'm guessing there aren't a lot of Iraqis willing to lay down their lives to protect Saddam Hussein. After you "win" the war, you will enjoy a huge bump in the popularity polls as everyone loves a winner -- and who doesn't like to see a good
ass-whoopin' every now and then (especially when it 's some third world ass!). So try your best to ride this victory all the way to next year's election. Of course, that's still a long ways away, so we'll all get to have a good hardy-har-har while we watch the economy sink even further down the toilet! But, hey, who knows -- maybe you'll find Osama a few days before the election! See, start thinking like THAT! Keep hope alive! Kill Iraqis -- they got our oil!!
>
>Yours,
>
>Michael Moore

2Tuff2Quit

03-20-2003, 10:35 PM

Just to let you all know, I am watching ABC news and they just said that one of the helicopters that was carrying 16 Americans soliders over there as well as 4 crew members, just crashed. It is used by the army and other services over there. They say that it is highly possible that all were killed. They do not know why or what caused the helicopter to crash. This would be the first American casualties.

D.COM

03-20-2003, 10:53 PM

There have been a number of helicopter crashes in this war, the hunt for bin Laden, and others.

I heard on the news that this helicopter crash was not because of "hostile fire", but because of the age of this type of helicopter...they are looking into "upgrading" this type of "transport chopper."

Umm...hello??? It's 2003 and we are using some "old" machinery and engineering? We have the latest bombs, missiles, etc...but don't have the latest equipment that CARRIES HUMANS/LIFE on board? Am I missing something?

We only seem to learn AFTER making mistakes...urrgghhh.

mo_mo17

03-20-2003, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by D.COM
There have been a number of helicopter crashes in this war, the hunt for bin Laden, and others.

I heard on the news that this helicopter crash was not because of "hostile fire", but because of the age of this type of helicopter...they are looking into "upgrading" this type of "transport chopper."

Umm...hello??? It's 2003 and we are using some "old" machinery and engineering? We have the latest bombs, missiles, etc...but don't have the latest equipment that CARRIES HUMANS/LIFE on board? Am I missing something?

We only seem to learn AFTER making mistakes...urrgghhh.

Or the propaganda machine has started. In other words any excuse--including old run down equipment--for why one of our copters went down is better than the possibility of retaliatory military action by the Iraqis. The last thing the Bush administration needs is American casualties stemming directly from Saddam's military. So I'm thinking it just wasn't an old plane that caused the crash......

D.COM

03-20-2003, 11:39 PM

Good point.

I keep getting reminded of how "crazy" this world is. Media, different people, crime, happiness, education, success, depression, struggles, money issues, etc.

I am surprised how technology allows us to "virtually experience" on TV what some soldiers are seeing or what reporters are hearing...kind of reminds me of the movie "Wag the Dog," but this is reality.

With all the "world tensions" now with the disagreements of some nations and North Korea, I PRAY that we do not have a nuclear disaster or WW III. Nuclear weapons should have never been created. Poor planet.

At the end of the "busy" day, I say my prayers and fall asleep - only to face another chaotic day (God willing).

(sigh) C'est la vie!

CrimsonTide4

03-23-2003, 02:43 PM

Arab TV Shows Captured American Soldiers
1 hour, 6 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!

By DANICA KIRKA, Associated Press Writer

DOHA, Qatar - The Arab satellite station Al-Jazeera aired footage from Iraqi television Sunday of interviews with what the station identified as captured American prisoners, and also showed bodies in uniform in an Iraqi morgue that it said were Americans.

Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld told CBS that if they are indeed coalition soldiers, "those pictures are a violation of the Geneva Conventions."

There was no confirmation that the prisoners were U.S. troops, or if they were, what unit they were attached to. Two of the prisoners identified their unit only as the 507th Maintenance; there is a 507th in both the Army and the Air Force.

The U.S. Central Command had no comment.

A senior defense official said Pentagon (news - web sites) officials did not know precisely how many Americans had been captured. The official declined to identify the unit involved so as not to cause panic among soldiers' families.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman said he thought fewer than 10 soldiers were missing in southern Iraq (news - web sites) and that military officials were trying to account for them. "Beyond that, we don't know," Gen. Richard Myers said on "Fox News Sunday."

Rumsfeld noted that under the conventions governing prisoners of war, "It's illegal to do things to POWs that are humiliating to those prisoners."

In the Al-Jazeera broadcast, four bodies could be seen lying on the floor of the room.

The station said they and the prisoners were captured around Nasiriyah, a major crossing point over the Euphrates northwest of Basra.

The British Ministry of Defense refused to comment about a BBC report that four were killed and 50 wounded during eight hours of fighting in Nasiriyah.

Al-Jazeera later showed footage of what appeared to be a fuel or water carrier parked alongside a highway and a body in uniform with full gear and still wearing a helmet lying behind the carrier.

In the Iraqi television footage, at least five prisoners including one woman were interviewed separately. Two were bandaged. They spoke American-accented English.

One of the men, sitting up, was being interviewed by an unseen person holding a microphone labeled "Iraqi TV." The prisoner spoke in English and at one point said: "I'm sorry. I don't understand you."

The narrator provided an Arabic translation, but it was possible to hear some of the comments in English.

The prisoners looked terrified. One captive, who said he was from Kansas, answered all his questions in a shaky voice, his eyes darting back and forth between and interviewer and another person who couldn't be seen on camera.

Asked why he came to Iraq, he simply replied "I come to fix broke stuff."

Prodded again by the interviewer, he was asked if he came to shoot Iraqis.

"No I come to shoot only if I am shot at," he said. "They (Iraqis) don't bother me, I don't bother them."

Another prisoner, who said he was from Texas, said only: "I follow orders."

A voice off-camera asked "how many officers" were in his unit.

"I don't know sir," the man replied.

Another prisoner, who also said he was from Texas, was lying on an elaborate maroon mat. The camera panned from his feet to his head, showing one of his arms as injured and lying across his chest.

Iraqi TV attempted to interview him lying down, at one point trying to cradle his head so it would hold steady for the camera. The eventually helped him sit up, but he seemed to sway slightly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
U.S. Military Says About 10 Soldiers Missing
2 hours, 9 minutes ago Add Politics to My Yahoo!

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. military said on Sunday that some of its soldiers could have been captured during the fighting in Iraq (news - web sites) and about 10 service personnel were missing.

U.S. Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said no more than 10 soldiers were unaccounted for in southern Iraq, but a defense official said the exact numbers were unclear.

The defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the missing American personnel probably were members of a maintenance unit that was part of U.S. forces in southern Iraq. The official declined to be more specific.

"The numbers were rough. We don't know whether it was 10, 11, 12, eight, nine," the official told reporters.

Appearing on NBC's "Meet the Press," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was asked if he believed there were any American prisoners of war. "There could be," he said.

Iraqi television has shown footage of what it said were four dead U.S. soldiers and five prisoners who said they were American.

Rumsfeld said on CBS' "Face the Nation" that showing pictures of the prisoners violated the Geneva Convention.

On the "Fox News Sunday" program, Myers said Central Command was searching for the missing American soldiers.

"They are trying to account for the soldiers that are reported missing and beyond that we don't know," Myers said.

Asked how many soldiers were missing, and from where, he added, "Less than 10 we think."

"Somewhere in southern Iraq," Myers said.

Rumsfeld said he had heard that an allied aircraft was missing, but he had no information about claims by Iraq that two Western pilots had been forced to abandon their aircraft over Baghdad.

Asked whether any Western planes are missing, he said "There has been a report of an aircraft that's missing."

Rumsfeld did not clarify if he was referring to a U.S. or British plane.

British officials confirmed on Sunday that one of their Tornado strike aircraft was downed by a U.S. missile near the Kuwait border and that the two-man crew was missing.

The U.S. military said later that it had no reports that any Western warplanes were missing over Iraq.

Gina1201

03-23-2003, 03:37 PM

Did anyone else hear about the grenade attack on some if the US troops? It turned out that it was one of our own. They showed a picture of the person in charge for the attack. It was an African American sergent. The news stated that he is a Muslim and they believe that this is what brought on the attack. Does anyone else have info on this topic?

D.COM

03-23-2003, 03:46 PM

Yes...
He was an African American Muslim. When asked why he did it, he said because he disagreed with the war (according to the news).

One thing I cannot believe they showed was the Al Jazeera gruesome pictures of U.S. soldiers that were killed in action and/or executed. CNN only showed one picture and I just cannot believe that has happened. I just continue to pray for our soldiers over there. These pictures, according to the Pentagon, say that they were probably not Iraqui soldiers who did that, but other Iraqui groups. Supposedly, the Iraqui soldiers WILL follow the Geneva Conventions....I hope so.
Without confirming that the film was of captured Americans, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld led the attack on Iraq for allowing the filming of captured soldiers. He said it would be "unfortunate" for international news organisations to show the images. Several US channels said they would not show the film.
Currently, there are about 5 U.S. soldiers held as POWs by the Iraquis, including one African American woman who was shown barefoot and the others are injured....not to mention that a U.S. army official confirmed there are 12 U.S. soldiers missing, which MAY be in those gruesome pictures that the Iraqui TV station showed. He also told reporters and news stations NOT to show those on TV and he showed great disapproval in the latest press conference on CNN.

Gina1201

03-23-2003, 04:53 PM

From aol.com:

KUWAIT CITY (March 23) - A U.S. soldier was detained Sunday on suspicion of throwing grenades into three tents at a 101st Airborne command center in Kuwait, killing one fellow serviceman and wounding 15, at least three of them seriously.

The motive in the attack ''most likely was resentment,'' said Max Blumenfeld, a U.S. Army spokesman.

The soldier in custody was identified Sunday as Sgt. Asan Akbar of the 326th Engineer Battalion. Fort Campbell, Ky., spokesman George Heath said Akbar had not been charged with any crime. He did not release Akbar's hometown or say how long he had been in the service.

Heath said Akbar had been ''having what some might call an attitude problem.''

I'd have an attitude too if I was fighting in this war!!! :mad:

Fort Campbell is the home base for the storied 101st Airborne Division.

''Incidents of this nature are abnormalities throughout the Army, specifically in the 101st,'' Heath said. ''Death is a tragic incident regardless of how it comes, but when it comes from a fellow comrade, it does even more to hurt morale. Our hearts and prayers go out to the families of the soldier. We pray that incidents of this nature do not happen again in any military organization.''

In Washington, a spokesman for the Pentagon said only that the attack was under investigation.

Initially, the military suspected the attack was the work of terrorists using two grenades and small-arms fire, Heath said. Two Middle Eastern men who had been hired as contractors were detained and released.

An Interior Ministry official speaking on condition of anonymity said Sunday that Americans still were investigating all locally contracted workers in the camp, such as cleaners, drivers and volunteer translators. Two Kuwaiti translators also were questioned and released.

''When this all happened we tried to get accountability for everybody,'' Col. Frederick B. Hodges, commander of the division's 1st Brigade, told Britain's Sky News television. ''We noticed four hand grenades were missing and that this sergeant was unaccounted for.''

Akbar was found hiding in a bunker, Hodges said.

The attack happened in the command center of the 101st Division's 1st Brigade at Camp Pennsylvania at 1:30 a.m. (5:30 p.m. EST Saturday). The commander learned of the attack when a sergeant woke him up.

''I immediately smelled smoke,'' Hodges told Sky News. ''I heard a couple of explosions and then a popping sound which I think was probably a rifle being fired. It looks like some assailant threw a grenade into each of these three tents here.''

One grenade went off in the command tent, said Blumenfeld, the Army spokesman. The tent, the tactical operations center, runs 24 hours a day and would always be staffed by officers and senior enlisted personnel.

Ten of the injured had superficial wounds, including punctures to their arms and legs from grenade fragments, Heath said. Names of the wounded also were not released, and the Army did not say if any high-ranking officers were hurt.

The 101st Airborne is a rapid deployment group trained to go anywhere in the world within 36 hours. The roughly 22,000 members of the 101st were deployed Feb. 6. The last time the entire division was deployed was during the 1991 Persian Gulf War, which began after Iraq invaded neighboring Kuwait.

Most recently, the 101st hunted suspected Taliban and al-Qaida fighters in the mountains of Afghanistan. Its exploits are followed in Kentucky with much pride.

Camp Pennsylvania is a rear base camp of the 101st, near the Iraqi border. Kuwait is the main launching point for the tens of thousands of ground forces - including parts of the 101st - who have entered Iraq.

News of the attack at the camp compounded the anxiety of relatives of the division's soldiers.

''I get a little worried but when I think I should be crying, I'm not,'' said Chelsey Payne of Clarksville, Tenn., whose husband, Sgt. Robert Payne, is with the division. ''I just don't get scared about my own husband, I just know that he's a good soldier and he's coming home. He promised me.''

AP-NY-03-23-03 1453EST

While I do not condone what he did, I do think that there's is more to his reasoning of WHY he did this. Saying that he had an "attitude problem" is not going to hold up.

CrimsonTide4

03-23-2003, 07:16 PM

http://www.whitehouse.org/initiatives/posters/images/tn_condi_whitey.jpg

What do you think?:o

Steeltrap

03-23-2003, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
http://www.whitehouse.org/initiatives/posters/images/tn_condi_whitey.jpg

What do you think?:o

Looks like something that would come out of www.badazzmofo.com, but I know it didn't come out of there. But it does seem that Condi is the brains and the steel, as it were, of the Gorgie Dubya Boosh admin.

CrimsonTide4

03-23-2003, 11:23 PM

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20030323/mdf239964.jpg

A combination picture from Iraqi television shows five unidentified prisoners who said they were Americans taken in a battle near the southern city of Nassiriya. Iraqi television showed the video on March 23, 2003 which also showed at least four bodies, said to be U.S. soldiers. (Iraqi TV/Reuters)

1savvydiva

03-24-2003, 02:33 AM

Wouldn't that be a horrible way to find out that your loved one was in captivity? Dag...did they show these on the news? Did they say that these were the ones that were killed? I am shocked!!!

D.COM

03-27-2003, 04:31 PM

The picture above are the ones the Iraquis have as POWs; they are not dead; they are alive.

The others were said to be killed in combat and/or executed. I heard there were 5 dead and not 4. The Pentagon said they looked like they were executed because of the bullet wounds to the head, etc. But they are not sure if it was Iraquis soldiers who did that or other Iraqui group.

The above POWs are said to be maintenance people. The first picture at the top left, he is 23 years old. The lady is 30 years old and has a bandaged ankle. I think the guy with blood on his face is the one who is the most injured with a wounded leg.

CNN only showed the 23 year old because his mother was already contacted (from the last time I saw the news two days ago.)

All are said to speak English with a slight accent...meaning they speak another language....[I'm just going with what the news said, but you know how the story doesn't add up sometimes.]

My info is from watching CNN, CNN News, Yahoo News, NBC, and ABC.
CNN and ABC are the best ones from what I've seen...they come up with new info pretty frequently and useful interviews to help you understand what's going on. They also correct incorrect info very quickly. Yahoo is sometimes off with the details, i guess because the info is corrected on TV after Yahoo already posted their news.

snuggles12

03-28-2003, 11:16 AM

The Iraqis are not going to follow the Geneva Convention rules of war. The only rule in war is that there are no rules. It's fighting until someone gives up or is destroyed.

The Iraqis had a female and males POWs during the first Gulf War and torture was used on them (i.e., female POW was raped).

I pray that the POWs do live. I can only imagine the torture that the female POW is experiencing.

Wouldn't the dropping of nuclear bombs on Japan in the 1940's be in violation of the Geneva Convention rules of war?

Originally posted by D.COM
Yes...
He was an African American Muslim. When asked why he did it, he said because he disagreed with the war (according to the news).

One thing I cannot believe they showed was the Al Jazeera gruesome pictures of U.S. soldiers that were killed in action and/or executed. CNN only showed one picture and I just cannot believe that has happened. I just continue to pray for our soldiers over there. These pictures, according to the Pentagon, say that they were probably not Iraqui soldiers who did that, but other Iraqui groups. Supposedly, the Iraqui soldiers WILL follow the Geneva Conventions....I hope so.

Currently, there are about 5 U.S. soldiers held as POWs by the Iraquis, including one African American woman who was shown barefoot and the others are injured....not to mention that a U.S. army official confirmed there are 12 U.S. soldiers missing, which MAY be in those gruesome pictures that the Iraqui TV station showed. He also told reporters and news stations NOT to show those on TV and he showed great disapproval in the latest press conference on CNN.

ZTAMiami

03-28-2003, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by D.COM

All are said to speak English with a slight accent...meaning they speak another language....[I'm just going with what the news said, but you know how the story doesn't add up sometimes.]

Of the POW's, the woman's (Shoshanna) parents are Panamanian. I don't know if she was born here or not. Her Mother was on Dateline and has an accent. 23 year old Joseph Hudson is half Phillipino. His mother saw the tape on a Phillipino channel she subscribes to. The one with the facial and leg injuries (forgot his name) is Hispanic.
God Bless them!

D.COM

03-28-2003, 07:40 PM

Wouldn't the dropping of nuclear bombs on Japan in the 1940's be in violation of the Geneva Convention rules of war?

The first "Geneva Convention" was in 1860s, I think....but it wasn't called that at the time. It was the Red Cross that started this. The purpose of this treaty was to protect wounded soldiers and people who took care of them.

There were a couple of changes thorughout the times. In 1929 it included the humane treatment of prisoners of war.

For the most part, the "Geneva Convention" had mostly been talking about the soldiers and not civilians. WWII ended around 1945. It wasn't until after WWII (1949 or 1950 I think) that they revised the previous conventions and talked about the rights of civilians during war time.

So, I THINK that we were not in violation at the time.

Honeykiss1974

03-28-2003, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by Steeltrap
Looks like something that would come out of www.badazzmofo.com, but I know it didn't come out of there. But it does seem that Condi is the brains and the steel, as it were, of the Gorgie Dubya Boosh admin.

This is too funny!

DirectorDST99

03-28-2003, 07:48 PM

I have one question and perhaps my politically astute friends can help me out here:

1. What in the name of WHOMEVER does the United States have to do with the problems in IRAQ?

Ok two, three or four more questions:

2. Who are we to liberate? Is that our job and responsiblity? Is that somewhere in our constitution? Dang I must have missed this lesson in my Pol Sci classes.

I'm just trying to get a basic understanding. I do support our troops who are over there because my ex-hubby, my daughter's father is on his way in a few months.

CrimsonTide4

03-31-2003, 01:21 PM

Rev. Jackson to Help Search for Newsday Journalists

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Mar 31, 2003 4:31 am US/Eastern
(1010 WINS) (NEW YORK) The Rev. Jesse Jackson has agreed to assist in the search for two Newsday journalists who disappeared from a Baghdad hotel last week.

Jackson said family members of correspondent Matthew McAllester, 33, and photographer Moises Saman, 29, asked him Sunday to help locate the two men and negotiate their release.

Saman and McAllester, Newsday's United Nations Bureau Chief, have been out of contact with editors since last Monday, when they e-mailed to say they would be filing material. Newsday reported Saturday that it believes the two have been detained by the Iraqi government.

Jackson said he told the families that he hopes to lead a delegation of religious leaders to Baghdad in hopes of securing the release of the two journalists, as well as U.S. prisoners of war and other people missing in Iraq.

"Both of them have called me. They are going public in their appeal for support, and we've met with some of the other families since that time, as well," Jackson told Newsday in Monday editions. "We surely want to do anything we can do."

Jane McAllester, Matthew's sister, said she reached out to Jackson because of his past success in places like Baghdad and Yugoslavia, where he helped win the release of captured U.S. citizens and prisoners of war, respectively.

Journalists expelled from Iraq have told Newsday that security officials came last Monday to the Baghdad hotel where McAllester and Saman were staying and questioned reporters. Some were taken from the hotel.

No one saw McAllester and Saman removed, but their room was empty when a friend went to check on them, Newsday has been told.

A freelance photographer from Louisville, Molly Bingham, is also unaccounted for.

CrimsonTide4

04-04-2003, 03:28 PM

First U.S. Journalist Killed in Iraq War
1 hour, 45 minutes ago

By JONATHAN D. SALANT, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Michael Kelly, editor-at-large for The Atlantic Monthly and columnist, was killed while on assignment covering the war in Iraq (news - web sites). He is the first American journalist to die in the conflict.

Latest news:
· U.S. Unable to Shut Down Iraq TV Signal
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Iraq Says Destroys U.S. Tanks at Baghdad Airport
Reuters - 17 minutes ago
· US Central Command dismisses Saddam appearance as "bad performance"
AFP - 18 minutes ago
Special Coverage

Kelly, also a hard-hitting conservative columnist for The Washington Post and a former editor of The New Republic, died Thursday night while traveling with the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division as it moved across Iraq, according to a statement issued by Atlantic Media.

The 46-year-old, who had also covered the first Persian Gulf war (news - web sites), was the first journalist to die among the 600 embedded with the U.S. armed forces. Three foreign journalists have been killed covering the war, two from the United Kingdom and one from Australia.

Neither the Defense Department nor Atlantic Media provided details about Kelly's death. However, The Washington Post, on its Web site, said Kelly was killed in a Humvee accident.

In his final column for The Post published Thursday, Kelly wrote about accompanying an Army task force as it captured a bridge across the Euphrates River.

"On the western side of the bridge, Lt. Col. Ernest "Rock" Marcone, commander of Task Force 3-69, stood in the sand by the side of the road, smoking a cigar and drinking a cup of coffee," Kelly wrote. "Marcone's soldiers say he deeply likes to win, and he seemed quietly happy.... We now hold the critical ground through which the rest of the division can pass and engage and destroy the Republican Guard," Marcone said."

Kelly was fired as editor of The New Republic, a weekly political journal, in 1997 by owner Martin Peretz, a friend and former teacher of then-Vice President Al Gore (news - web sites). Peretz objected to what he felt was the magazine's constant criticism of the Clinton administration, especially in Kelly's regular column.

Kelly became a columnist for the Post and continued to criticize Clinton. Around the same time, he was hired as the editor of National Journal, a weekly magazine that covers the federal government. When the Journal's owner, David Bradley, bought The Atlantic Monthly in 1999, he named Kelly editor of the venerable magazine.

Last September, Kelly stepped down from that post and took the title editor-at-large. He is also chief editorial adviser to the Journal.

Before taking the helm of The New Republic, Kelly was a reporter for The New York Times and a writer and editor at The New Yorker.

He covered the first Persian Gulf War as a stringer for The Boston Globe, GQ and The New Republic, as well as the Iraq-Kurdish conflict that followed it. He won a National Magazine Award and an Overseas Press Club award for his articles, and later wrote a book based on his reporting, "Martyr's Day: Chronicle of a Small War."

A native of Washington, D.C., Kelly was the son of two journalists — Thomas Kelly, a former reporter, and Marguerite Kelly, who writes the syndicated column, "Family Almanac." Kelly is survived by his wife, Madelyn, and two sons, Tom, 6, and Jack, 3.

Honeykiss1974

04-04-2003, 04:05 PM

Someone has this button on Ebay for sale.

http://ebay2.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_38beed318ad73e0894b659d57c4fbcc5/i-1.JPG

So who's buying me one? :D

CrimsonTide4

04-08-2003, 12:25 AM

http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CA01&cp1=1

ladeia

04-08-2003, 01:10 AM

Come on now! I'll believe Saddam is dead when Ms. Cleo TELLS me. He and his family are on some Gulla Island kicking it with Tupac sipping out of coconut cups. They (the government) couldn't confirm it anyway because they have NO DNA on Saddam. That bs and we all know it! Disclaimer= This is LaDeia's own opinion and not reflective of others!

LaDeia
"...I am so pretty, oh so pretty..."
- R.Kelly to his new cellmate

carolyne

04-09-2003, 02:05 AM

I think it's something how no one is talking about how our president basically sent assassins to kill a man. He ordered murders in our face and no one has anything to say about it. He never once said they would try to capture Saddam and his family. He tried to be slick by saying that Saddam would be "removed" but we all know that he meant "killed". Does this not bother anyone but me? Regardless of the things Saddam has done, who gives Bush the right to say that he needs to die? I guess I shouldn't be surprised since he is the same man that was governor over the state that had the highest death penalty rate. :mad:

1savvydiva

04-13-2003, 02:15 PM

NEAR KUT, Iraq (April 13) - Iraqi troops released seven U.S. POWs - some wounded but in good condition - to Marines on Sunday, a surprise development near where U.S. troops were entering Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit.

Clad in an assortment of pajamas and shorts, the soldiers who had been held captive for 22 days clambered out of helicopters to a delighted welcome at an air base in southern Iraq, hours after their release.

The seven were taken by helicopter to this base near Kut and flown to a military airport south of Kuwait City.

They ``are in good shape,'' although two have gunshot wounds, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said.

Shortly after their capture early in the war, the seven had been shown on Iraq's state-run television - giving a human face to the peril confronting American troops.

Chief Warrant Officer Ronald D. Young Jr., whose Apache helicopter was forced down March 23, clutched a bottle of water as he walked toward the C-130 for the flight to Kuwait, then grinned widely as a soldier shook his hand.

His father, back in Lithia, Ga., watched shaky video footage of his son on CNN. ``It's him, and I'm just so happy that I could kiss the world!'' Ronald Young Sr. said. ``It's him! It's definitely him.''

Also among the seven was Chief Warrant Officer David S. Williams, 30, of Orlando, Fla., who was in the Apache with Young.

``He's looks in great shape,'' David Williams Sr. said from Florida. ``I'm also happy for the rest of the POWs and their families, if in fact it is them in these pictures.''

Army Spc. Shoshana Johnson, 30, of Fort Bliss, Texas - the only woman among the freed prisoners - limped in slippers and showed a bandage on her right ankle. She had been held since Iraqis ambushed her 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company outside the southern city of Nasiriyah on March 23.

The others were identified by relatives and family friends as Army Sgt. James Riley, 31, Pennsauken, N.J., Army Spc. Joseph Hudson, 23, Alamogordo, N.M., and Army Pfc. Patrick Miller, 23, Park City, Kan., and Spc. Edgar Hernandez, 21, of Mission, Texas - all members of the 507th.

``They look to be in pretty good condition ... all giving the thumbs up,'' said Col. Larry Brown, operations officer for the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.

Some wore blue-and-white striped pajamas, another was in blue shorts. Marines at this base came forward to pat them on the back.

President Bush, who spent the weekend at Camp David, Md., was told Sunday morning of the freed captives.

Capt. David Romley said Marines marching north toward Tikrit were met by Iraqi soldiers north of Samarra who approached the 3rd Light Armored Reconnaissance Company and had the seven Americans with them.

Another spokesman for the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, Capt. Neil Murphy, said the Iraqi soldiers who had brought the Americans had been abandoned by their officers and ``realizing that it was the right thing to do, they brought these guys back.''

``We go to every effort to recover any of the Marines or any of our soldiers taken captive,'' Romley said.

Rumsfeld said Iraqis told U.S. troops that they would find the seven missing soldiers at a location about four or five miles south of Tikrit. ``They said, 'You should go get them,' and they did,'' Rumsfeld said.

When Marine combat headquarters got news that the missing had been found, the troops applauded - rare in combat operations, Murphy said.

``You could feel the happiness and excitement in the combat operations center,'' he said.

Pentagon officials are committed to tracking down all soldiers still missing or captured since the spectacular rescue of Pfc. Jessica Lynch on April 1.

Gen. Tommy Franks, commander of U.S. forces, underscored his commitment to rescuing coalition captives although he said he didn't think that all POWs and MIAs could be recovered.

``I don't think we could predict that at all,'' he told Fox TV. ``I think it would be a true blessing if we were able to do that, and I don't think we ... can count on it.

``But I can tell you this: Even though we can't count on it, we can work at them hard. And we have been, and we will,'' Franks added.

Officials had been sounding an upbeat note in recent days, saying more Iraqis were willing to talk and share secrets about potential POW sightings now that Saddam's henchmen are gone.

Lynch, who was rescued April 1 from a hospital in Nasiriyah after an Iraqi civilian tipped soldiers off, became the first POW to return home Saturday.

``This morning our family joins America in rejoicing over the news of the safe return of seven brave heroes to U.S. military custody in Iraq,'' Lynch's family said in a statement Sunday. ``This is certainly an answer to our prayers and - we're certain - the prayers of literally millions of other concerned citizens of the world.''

04/13/03 12:36 EDT

Steeltrap

04-18-2003, 02:39 PM

I had heard about this soldier being killed in combat, but I had no idea he was AfAm until I went to the Orange County Register site and saw a pix of his daughter. He worked in OC, where I live, an area which is only 2% black.

http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/news/2003/04/040803war3.jpg

Tuesday, April 8, 2003
Marine planned a career in Anaheim
Edward Smith, killed near Basra, had a position with city's police force.

By BILL RAMS, ELEEZA V. AGOPIAN and JIM RADCLIFFE
The Orange County Register

He decided to retire in January. He had his future planned.

A job at the Anaheim Police Department, where he already was a rising star. New friends. More time to go camping with his wife and three children.

But then 1st Sgt. Edward "Smitty" Smith's plans changed. The Marine Corps postponed all retirements for a year and called him to serve in the war with Iraq.

"He had been in the Marine Corps for 20 years and never really been in combat," his wife, Sandy Smith, said Monday. "He told me he didn't want to go, but that he thought he should."

Marine Corps officials said Smith, 38, and his company of more than 200 Marines were involved in a firefight near Basra. His wife said he was shot; Marine officials said he died of head wounds.

Sandy Smith fought back tears as she talked about her husband of nearly 15 years and the effect his death will have on their children: Nathan, 12; Ryan, 9; and Shelby, 8.

FOR MORE INFORMATION
Sgt. Edward Smith
Memorial Fund
c/o Harbor National Bank
101 E. Lincoln Ave., suite 125
Anaheim, CA 92805
(714) 535-2400
"He was the best man I've ever known," she said. "He was a wonderful father."

Smith was part of the 2nd Tank Battalion in the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force and received many commendations during his career.

He lived in Vista and drove on weekends to Anaheim, where he had been a reserve officer for almost four years.

At the Police Department, his colleagues described him as a top member of the Special Weapons and Tactics team. He also was Orange County's Best Reserve Officer in 2001 and Reserve of the Year in Anaheim in 2000. He was "top cop" at Palomar police academy and planned to work in Anaheim after the war.

Wednesday, the SWAT team got a letter from Smith written on the back of a cardboard box. He said he was going to ride into Baghdad wearing a SWAT hat.

"He's a guy I kicked in doors with and who watched my back," officer Steve Davis said. "Stuff like this isn't supposed to happen."

On Monday, officers talked about cashing in their vacation time and donating it to Smith's family. They reminisced about the polite, 6-foot-tall, 250-pound man they called "Gunny" - for gunnery sergeant. Even after Smith was promoted, the name stuck.

"I just finished writing him a letter that I planned to send out today," Davis said. "In it, I asked him to tell everybody in his group that we appreciate what they do."

Davis said Smith was a doting husband who showed off his family at the SWAT team Christmas party.

"He kept telling Nathan: 'When Daddy's not around, you're the man of the house,'" Davis said.

Hundreds of police officers signed a card for Smith's family. "Our prayers are with you. Ed is a hero in our eyes," one detective wrote. "I'm so proud to have known Smitty," wrote another.

Smith thought he had completed his last tour after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

He was deployed to Japan, then the Middle East.

In early January, after a family skiing vacation in Mammoth, he submitted his retirement application. Days later, the Secretary of the Navy took the unusual step of forbidding all Marines from leaving the service for 12 months.

The call came. Smith would head toward Iraq on Jan. 31.

"He knew how I felt about it before he left but there was nothing he could do," his wife said. "He told me he'd be back."

Several family members, friends and even the children's teachers gathered Monday at the two-story house south of Camp Pendleton.

Smith's three children smiled as they remembered their dad.

"He likes to sing a lot," Ryan said. "When he comes out of the bathroom, he sings a dorky song."

"We have to go at least once a year camping," Nathan said. "We still will," Shelby said.

A neighbor asked the children: "Aren't you all proud of your dad?"

In unison, the children answered: "Yeah."

BirthaBlue4

04-19-2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by ladeia
Come on now! I'll believe Saddam is dead when Ms. Cleo TELLS me. He and his family are on some Gulla Island kicking it with Tupac sipping out of coconut cups. They (the government) couldn't confirm it anyway because they have NO DNA on Saddam. That bs and we all know it! Disclaimer= This is LaDeia's own opinion and not reflective of others!

LaDeia
"...I am so pretty, oh so pretty..."
- R.Kelly to his new cellmate

Pretty much, me and my ls's came to the same conclusions. You know god and well he left. They were able to get into his palaces a little too easily if you ask me...

CrimsonTide4

12-14-2003, 10:46 AM

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20031214/capt.lon80712141308.iraq_saddam_capture_lon807.jpg

Video image of captured former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) displayed at a news conference in Baghdad Sunday Dec. 14, 2003 in this image from television. Top U.S. administrator in Iraq (news - web sites) L. Paul Bremer confirmed the capture of former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein in a house near his hometown of Tikrit, eight months after the fall of Baghdad. (AP Photo/APTN)

Saddam Hussein Captured Alive Near Tikrit
32 minutes ago

By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - American forces captured a bearded Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) as he hid in a dirt hole under a farmhouse near his hometown of Tikrit, ending one of the most intensive manhunts in history. The arrest, eight months after the fall of Baghdad, was carried out without a shot fired and was a huge victory for U.S. forces.

"Ladies and gentlemen, we got him," U.S. administrator L. Paul Bremer told a news conference Sunday. "The tyrant is a prisoner."

Saddam was captured Saturday at 8:30 p.m. in a specially prepared "spider hole" in a house in Adwar, a town 10 miles from Tikrit, said Lt Col. Ricardo Sanchez, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq (news - web sites). The hole was six to eight feet deep, with enough space to lie down, camouflaged with bricks and dirt and supplied with an air vent to allow long periods inside.

A U.S. defense official said Saddam admitted his identity when captured.

Sanchez, who saw Saddam overnight, said the deposed leader "has been cooperative and is talkative." He described Saddam as "a tired man, a man resigned to his fate."

In the capital, radio stations played celebratory music, residents fired small arms in the air in celebration and passengers on buses and trucks shouted, "They got Saddam! They got Saddam!"

Eager to give Iraqis evidence that the elusive former dictator had indeed been captured, Sanchez played a video at the news conference showing the 66-year-old Saddam in custody. Saddam, with a thick, graying beard and bushy, disheveled hair, was seen as doctor examined him, holding his mouth open with a tongue depressor, apparently to get a DNA sample. Saddam touched his beard during the exam. Then the video showed a picture of Saddam after he was shaved, juxtaposed for comparison with an old photo of the Iraqi leader while in power.

Iraqi journalists in the audience stood, pointed and shouted "Death to Saddam!" and "Down with Saddam!"

Though the raid occurred Saturday afternoon American time, U.S. officials went to great length to keep it quiet until medical tests and DNA testing confirmed Saddam's identity.

Washington hopes Saddam's capture will help break the organized Iraq resistance that has killed more than 190 American soldiers since President Bush (news - web sites) declared major combat over on May 1 and has set back efforts at reconstruction. U.S. commanders have said that while in hiding Saddam played some role in the guerrilla campaign blamed on his followers.

In the latest attack, a suspected suicide bomber detonated explosives in a car outside a police station Sunday morning west of Baghdad, killing at least 17 people and wounding 33 more, the U.S. military said.

Saddam was being held at an undisclosed location, and U.S. authorities have not yet determined whether to hand him over to the Iraqis for trial, Sanchez said. Iraqi officials want him to stand trial before a war crimes tribunal created last week.

"This success brings closure to the Iraqi people," Sanchez said.

"Saddam Hussein will never return to a position of power from which he can punish, terrorize, intimidate and exploit the Iraqi people as the did for more than 35 years."

Ahmad Chalabi, a member of Iraq's Governing Council, said Sunday that Saddam will be put on trial.

"Saddam will stand a public trial so that the Iraqi people will know his crimes," said Chalabi told Al-Iraqiya, a Pentagon (news - web sites)-funded TV station.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) hailed the capture, saying the deposed leader "has gone from power, he won't be coming back."

"Where his rule meant terror and division and brutality, let his capture bring about unity, reconciliation and peace between all the people of Iraq," Blair said in brief comments at his 10 Downing St. office.

In Tikrit, U.S. soldiers lit up cigars after hearing the news of Saddam's capture.

Some 600 troops from the 4th Infantry Division along with Special Forces captured Saddam, the U.S. military said. There were no shots fired or injuries in the raid, called "Operation Red Dawn," Sanchez said.

Two men "affiliated with Saddam Hussein" were detained with him, and soldiers confiscated two Kalashnikov rifles, a pistol, a taxi and $750,000 in $100 bills, Sanchez said. The two men were "fairly insignificant" regime figures, a U.S. defense official said.

Celebratory gunfire erupted in the capital, and shop owners closed their doors, fearful that the shooting would make the streets unsafe.

"I'm very happy for the Iraqi people. Life is going to be safer now," said 35-year-old Yehya Hassan, a resident of Baghdad. "Now we can start a new beginning."

Earlier in the day, rumors of the capture sent people streaming into the streets of Kirkuk, a northern Iraqi city, firing guns in the air in celebration.

"We are celebrating like it's a wedding," said Kirkuk resident Mustapha Sheriff. "We are finally rid of that criminal."

"This is the joy of a lifetime," said Ali Al-Bashiri, another resident. "I am speaking on behalf of all the people that suffered under his rule."

Despite the celebration throughout Baghdad, many residents were skeptical.

"I heard the news, but I'll believe it when I see it," said Mohaned al-Hasaji, 33. "They need to show us that they really have him."

Ayet Bassem, 24, walked out of a shop with her 6-year-old son.

"Things will be better for my son," she said. "Everyone says everything will be better when Saddam is caught. My son now has a future."

After invading Iraq on March 20 and setting up their headquarters in Saddam's sprawling Republican Palace compound in Baghdad, U.S. troops launched a massive manhunt for the fugitive (news - Y! TV) leader, placing a $25 million bounty on his head and sending thousands of soldiers to search for him.

Saddam was one of the most-wanted fugitives in the world, along with Osama bin Laden (news - web sites), the leader of the al-Qaida terrorist network who hasn't been caught despite a manhunt since November 2001, when the Taliban regime was overthrown in Afghanistan (news - web sites).

Saddam proved elusive during the war, when at least two dramatic military strikes came up empty in their efforts to assassinate him. Since then, he has appeared in both video and audio tapes. U.S. officials named him No. 1 on their list of 55 most-wanted Iraqis, the lead card in a special deck of most-wanted cards.

Saddam's sons Qusai and Odai — each with a $15 million bounty on their heads — were killed July 22 in a four-hour gunbattle with U.S. troops in a hideout in the northern city of Mosul. The bounties were paid out to the man who owned the house where they were killed, residents said.

Adnan Pachachi, member of Iraq's U.S.-appointed Governing Council, said Saddam's capture will bring stability to Iraq.

"The state of fear, intelligence and oppression is gone forever," Pachachi said. "The Iraqi people are very happy and we look forward to a future of national reconciliation between Iraqis in order to build the new and free Iraq, an Iraq of equality."

SO CAN WE LEAVE NOW!?!?!?!?!!

1savvydiva

12-14-2003, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4

SO CAN WE LEAVE NOW!?!?!?!?!!

My sentiments exactly. A friend of mine just found out that he will be shipped off two days before Christmas. WTF? :mad:

btb87

12-14-2003, 11:45 AM

Girl, you gon' make me late for church!

Lemme go check out CNN RIGHT NOW!!!!

ETA: My nearly 9 year old daughter was wondering what was happening when I gave her the channel of CNN to turn to while I was getting ready for church. She wanted to know what was going on, so I told her that Saddam Hussein was captured. She says "So the war is over?"

Sweetie, I wish it were that simple. . .

AXEAM

12-14-2003, 01:07 PM

Personally I feel for the guy he has been the whipping boy for America for several years now. In my opinion w/o good cause after 1991 the guy did nothing to be considered a threat to the world community,and to try to connect him to Sept 11th is asinine. He's just another victim of western aggression to be demonized and hunted down as if he was some prize in a hunting contest........and no Crimsontide the troops won't be coming home no time soon b/c now it's time to make a profit off this needless so called war.

Steeltrap

12-14-2003, 01:22 PM

I suspect this capture = another four more years of Gorgie Dubya Boosh. And this comes from a registered non-partisan voter.

midwesterngirl

12-14-2003, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Steeltrap
I suspect this capture = another four more years of Gorgie Dubya Boosh. And this comes from a registered non-partisan voter.

God help us all,I think you are exactly right.

RedefinedDiva

12-14-2003, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Steeltrap
I suspect this capture = another four more years of Gorgie Dubya Boosh. And this comes from a registered non-partisan voter.
When I saw this on the news this morning, I thought "Isn't it IRONIC that Saddam has been captured just weeks before the Democratic nomination and campaigning kicks into full swing?"

Things that make you go hmmmm.......

Jill1228

12-14-2003, 02:57 PM

Shudder! G-d forbid!

Originally posted by Steeltrap
I suspect this capture = another four more years of Gorgie Dubya Boosh. And this comes from a registered non-partisan voter.

Honeykiss1974

12-14-2003, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
When I saw this on the news this morning, I thought "Isn't it IRONIC that Saddam has been captured just weeks before the Democratic nomination and campaigning kicks into full swing?"

Things that make you go hmmmm.......

I thought this too. :o What a nice Christmas present to America....Saddam and the hope that most of our troops will be coming home soon.

And all right before campaign time :rolleyes:

Except for the unshaven beard, Saddam must have been eating well while on the run because he looks like he has GAINED weight. :o

MeezDiscreet

12-14-2003, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by AXEAM
Personally I feel for the guy he has been the whipping boy for America for several years now. In my opinion w/o good cause after 1991 the guy did nothing to be considered a threat to the world community,and to try to connect him to Sept 11th is asinine. He's just another victim of western aggression to be demonized and hunted down as if he was some prize in a hunting contest........and no Crimsontide the troops won't be coming home no time soon b/c now it's time to make a profit off this needless so called war.

i so totally agree!!! my l.s. and i were discussing this after church and i said that i was reluctant to declare this a good thing until i see that the charges brought against him are substantiated and proven not to be just a beard stroke for bush. shoot i was one of those feeling sorry for him when his sons were killed and had their pictures all over every news station...

CrimsonTide4

12-14-2003, 07:25 PM

On another forum, I said Saddam needed a Jenny Jones makeover to which someone replied he needed Kyan from Queer Eye for the Straight Guy's assistance.:D

Prissfit1908

12-14-2003, 08:30 PM

I find it hard to leap for joy simply because Saddam Hussein has been captured.

I am ever aware that we live in a society that revolves around the media and that, more often than not, the information provided by the media is biased. I am not saying that Hussein deserves the man of the year award or the Nobel Peace Prize. However, I wish the people of America would not hasten to judgement on the basis of what we hear. I work in the news industry as a copy editor and I have seen firsthand how information can be skewed depending upon the source or the publisher. It bothers me to no end when I hear Americans make comments about people in other countries when they truly have no clue what they are talking about. Too frequently they are only regurgitating propoganda they have been force fed their entire lives. I cannot reiterate this enough: We only know what we are told.

I am not one to purport conspiracy theories, but how many times has "confidential" information eventually seeped out? How much more is under lock and key? How do we really know what goes on around the world when censorship and biases prevent the whole truth from being discussed?

I am also extremely concerned that Hussein's capture coupled with a weak batch of democratic presidential hopefuls will make it easier for Bush to be re-elected (although I suppose one would have to be elected, and not appointed, in the first place to be RE-elected... don't get me started on that election). I have a feeling that this will serve as a feather in his cap on the republican campaign trail. I also wonder how many Americans who had defected from the Bush camp because of the number of soldiers dying in the war will now rejoin him.

Back to the issue of the news, I just think we should always look at the media with a gimlet eye and take it with a grain of salt, particularly when we are dealing with world relations. Political and personal gain are two very strong forces that could easily sway people to lie or do terribly deceitful things.

That's my eight cents... I'll get off my soap box... for now. ;)

TonyB06

12-14-2003, 09:51 PM

I don't think this is the end at all. The problem has never been one man, be it Saddam or bin Laden. It's a cultural mindset. East vs. West. There are a million little Iraqi boys and young men ready to be the next "Saddam."

It will take years of diplomacy, cultural partnership and assimiliation to show the Iraqi public that we are not the Enemy we're purported to be.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think the gov/t will take the short-sighted position and think this is over, and 5, 10 years down the road, we chasin' another "dictator" over the same bullisht.

CountryGurl

12-14-2003, 10:27 PM

Umm, and right before the next Presidential election. How ignorant does this administration think the American people are? They knew where he was all along. And now our "war-time" President has once again dooped the American public with this. But again I ask, where are the weapons? Maybe now that Saddam has been "found" we can get the answer........:rolleyes:

lovelyivy84

12-14-2003, 10:55 PM

This morning the media was stressing that Saddam was not at the heart of all of these terrorist attacks, so that capturing him doesn't mean that the war is over by a long shot.

They're right.

I'm torn about this. I live in NYC- I never NEVER want to see another Sept. 11th. I want to feel safe again. Heightened military action seems to be necessary to achieving that goal.

The problem is that I don't know that the current military action is the way to do that. The men who pulled off Sept. 11th didn't have anything to do with Saddam Hussein, and more ties to our good friends in Saudi Arabia than Iraq.

The war is a great way to get access to that country's oil supplies, but a way to root out Al Queda? Capturing Saddam doesn't mean squat to Al Queda except for another martyr to fuel their cause.

I would LIKE to be able to trust our country and say that our military leaders are doing their best to protect us, but I don't really believe that. I dont think that any Americans are that naive about the things that our government does anymore. I think our leaders (republican AND democrat) are politicians and they are doing the best they can for their own bank accounts. The safety and wellbeing of the people is a distant second. Very distant.

Wonderful1908

12-14-2003, 11:03 PM

He's probably been captured, this administration probably was like yea right now let's suddenly "find him" . I predict we will probably fine Bin Laden around August or September about 2-3 months before the 2004 elections.

1browngirl

12-14-2003, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by CountryGurl
But again I ask, where are the weapons?

For that matter, where is Osama Bin Laden..... how is it that we've been looking for him longer than Saddam and all of a sudden we get intelligence information that lead us straight to Saddam? We've been looking for Bin Laden for how many years, and he's no where to be found? C'mon. Shouldn't our focus be finding the person who claimed responsibility for 9/11?

Sugar_N_Spice

12-14-2003, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by Wonderful1908
He's probably been captured, this administration probably was like yea right now let's suddenly "find him" . I predict we will probably fine Bin Laden around August or September about 2-3 months before the 2004 elections.

OMG!!! I was LMAO at that one! If that happens, there's going to be some eyebrows raised, for real...

I agree with what ohters have previously said:

1.) WHERE ARE THE WEAPONS!?!?! That was the first sentence that came to my mind, when I woke up this morning and my mom told me that he'd been captured. I was like "Okay, but where are the WMD?" :confused: Cuz we all know there weren't any weapons to begin with. :rolleyes: They probably did know where he was all along, and just let him ride it out until they wanted to "capture" him...

2.) Our country has really demonized him. I mean, I know that he wasn't a nice person, to say the absolute very least, but who says b/c of that, we have the gall to go up in some else's country and remove them, esp. when we weren't honest about the reason in the first place...Our culture here is really screwed up, and if I were an Iraqi I wouldn't rust Bush or our govt. as far as I can throw him...

The question now though (which is what they were talking about on CNN), is where and how will he be tried? The Iraqi's deserve to try him in their own land. But, since we captured him, AND it's election time around the corner, I'm sceptical about that happening (even though Bush supposed has to following Int'l Law)...On the news, they were like "He should get the death penalty". I wonder how this will play out...

Munchkin03

12-14-2003, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by 1browngirl
For that matter, where is Osama Bin Laden..... how is it that we've been looking for him longer than Saddam and all of a sudden we get intelligence information that lead us straight to Saddam? We've been looking for Bin Laden for how many years, and he's no where to be found? C'mon. Shouldn't our focus be finding the person who claimed responsibility for 9/11?

Don't you know? Osama is soooo 2001. :rolleyes:

TonyB06

12-15-2003, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by CountryGurl
... But again I ask, where are the weapons?

...in dude's beard, maybe?

lostnfound117

12-15-2003, 02:56 PM

I'm worried that this may not be Sadaam, but one of those body doubles that he uses that I've heard about. I mean, who knows with the DNA stuff...this just seems too good to be true!

CrimsonTide4

12-15-2003, 03:01 PM

All that hair is a SERIOUS WEAPON of MASS DESTRUCTION!!!

Can you imagine Mrs. Saddam's reaction to him asking for a kiss?!!?! "Iraqian are you crazy?!?!!?"

TonyB06

12-15-2003, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
Can you imagine Mrs. Saddam's reaction to him asking for a kiss?!!?! "Iraqian are you crazy?!?!!?"

...but with the pressure of the Marines chasing him, I bet he put in on her like it was the very last time because.... well, now I guess it is. :o

but still, bin Laden is like 6'6" with a f---ked up beard and we can't find him. WTH?

As Jay Anthony Brown (Tom Joyner) says, "I bet if these sumb*tches had student loans we'd know where they were. If you got a student loan they know how to find yo azz."

CrimsonTide4

12-15-2003, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by TonyB06

As Jay Anthony Brown (Tom Joyner) says, "I bet if these sumb*tches had student loans we'd know where they were. If you got a student loan they know how to find yo azz."

He ain't neva lied. :o Mofos find you all willy nilly.:mad:

delph998

12-15-2003, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by Steeltrap
I suspect this capture = another four more years of Gorgie Dubya Boosh. And this comes from a registered non-partisan voter.

I KNOW! I am so perturbed about that!

AXEAM

12-16-2003, 12:31 AM

I 'm so tired of the way this man's face is plastered all over the media being exploited for the Tyranical Bush regime. It's truly sad I and many others don't agree w/the way Bush stole the election of 2000 and I really disagree w/his policies so would it be o-kay if say China came over here and remove the Bush regime from power........like we did Saddam damn it's just not fair western aggression is alive and well. Reminds me of the western crusades.

FeeFee

12-16-2003, 10:29 AM

Love_Spell_6

12-16-2003, 05:09 PM

I will say that absolutely love chatting with people who's viewpoints are so different from my own....:)

I can't believe the cynical thinking though...folx must really think President Bush is EVIL. GEEZ I give the man more credit than that.... waiting to "find" Saddam for a political move?? Do you really think something like that would never get out?? My skin crawls when I hear people say that Our President is as evil as Saddam.

I guess some people think I'm either naive or crazy because I really applaud the job MY President is doing and has done....and at the same time I think some people just love conspiracy theories, hate rich white men in power, and republicans

its a good thing we live in a country where we can all express such views

Wonderful1908

12-16-2003, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
I will say that absolutely love chatting with people who's viewpoints are so different from my own....:)

I can't believe the cynical thinking though...folx must really think President Bush is EVIL. GEEZ I give the man more credit than that.... waiting to "find" Saddam for a political move?? Do you really think something like that would never get out?? My skin crawls when I hear people say that Our President is as evil as Saddam.

I guess some people think I'm either naive or crazy because I really applaud the job MY President is doing and has done....and at the same time I think some people just love conspiracy theories, hate rich white men in power, and republicans

its a good thing we live in a country where we can all express such views

LoveSpell I gotta give it too you you bring a sense of debate to this forum cause I am like whoaaa:eek:

AXEAM

12-17-2003, 02:54 AM

Lovespell
Not only is he evil but dangerous as well...........................

Love_Spell_6

12-17-2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by AXEAM
Lovespell
Not only is he evil but dangerous as well...........................

Oh... you must know him personally to make a statement with such confidence.

If you don't know him personally...I think your statement is more of an opinion than fact....that could result from partisan politics. It is a FACT that Saddam gassed his own people and tortured them. It is a FACT that he instructed the rape and brutalization of women in his country. That amounts to evil to me.... PLEASE show me documented proof where MY President has done something similar..so that I too can see his evil ways.

allsmiles_22

12-17-2003, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
It is a FACT that Saddam gassed his own people and tortured them. It is a FACT that he instructed the rape and brutalization of women in his country. That amounts to evil to me....

Instead of continuing the mission of getting Osama who devised a plan for his followers to come into the US, take OUR PLANES, use those planes as bombs against OUR BUILDINGS and successfully kill thousands of OUR PEOPLE, he decides to use the lives of our loved ones to settle a personal vendetta with Saddam because he hasn't done anything to US (proven from your facts above). If that's not EVIL, I don't know what is? While the US being big brother is a whole different topic, the fact is we could have addressed Saddam AFTER we took care of our own enemies.

So we capture Saddam and we give relief to Iraq. What relief has the US gotten from capturing Saddam? Note that the downfall of the economy was due to 9/11 and not the war in Iraq. What justice have we gotten for the pain and suffering from 9/11? Tax cuts??? Sorry, but more money in my portfolio doesn't erase the memories of all those people who died when those buildings collapsed. I would need for my President to capture the terrorist(s) who afflicted my country directly and maybe then he could get my respect. As conservative as I am, I'll leave the loving of the old, republican, rich white man with power to you sista. *that just sounds so nasty*

Setting aside that he's a Bush and political affiliations, the fact is he failed as our President. In his own words from (http://www.indystar.com/library/factfiles/crime/national/2001/sept11/bush.html)

"The search is under way for those who are behind these evil acts. I've directed the full resources for our intelligence and law enforcement communities to find those responsible and bring them to justice."

"Americans are asking, "How will we fight and win this war?... Now this war will not be like the war against Iraq a decade ago, with a decisive liberation of territory and a swift conclusion."
At the time who would have ever thought we'd be right back in Iraq?

"I have called our military into action, to hunt down the members of the al Qaeda organization who murdered innocent Americans...I am so proud of our military. Our military is pursuing its mission... We are deliberately and systematically hunting down these murderers, and we will bring them to justice."

He hasn't followed through on any of these statements. Bush is now in high spirits and in high regards with the American people as he was when he got elected. I just pray to God that history doesn't repeat itself and Osama doesn't do anything to bring the focus back to his agenda with the US while we are celebrating our "great victory".

Love_Spell_6

12-17-2003, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by allsmiles_22
Instead of continuing the mission of getting Osama who devised a plan for his followers to come into the US, take OUR PLANES, use those planes as bombs against OUR BUILDINGS and successfully kill thousands of OUR PEOPLE, he decides to use the lives of our loved ones to settle a personal vendetta with Saddam because he hasn't done anything to US (proven from your facts above). If that's not EVIL, I don't know what is? While the US being big brother is a whole different topic, the fact is we could have addressed Saddam AFTER we took care of our own enemies.

So we capture Saddam and we give relief to Iraq. What relief has the US gotten from capturing Saddam? Note that the downfall of the economy was due to 9/11 and not the war in Iraq. What justice have we gotten for the pain and suffering from 9/11? Tax cuts??? Sorry, but more money in my portfolio doesn't erase the memories of all those people who died when those buildings collapsed. I would need for my President to capture the terrorist(s) who afflicted my country directly and maybe then he could get my respect. As conservative as I am, I'll leave the loving of the old, republican, rich white man with power to you sista. *that just sounds so nasty*

Setting aside that he's a Bush and political affiliations, the fact is he failed as our President. In his own words from (http://www.indystar.com/library/factfiles/crime/national/2001/sept11/bush.html)

"The search is under way for those who are behind these evil acts. I've directed the full resources for our intelligence and law enforcement communities to find those responsible and bring them to justice."

"Americans are asking, "How will we fight and win this war?... Now this war will not be like the war against Iraq a decade ago, with a decisive liberation of territory and a swift conclusion."
At the time who would have ever thought we'd be right back in Iraq?

"I have called our military into action, to hunt down the members of the al Qaeda organization who murdered innocent Americans...I am so proud of our military. Our military is pursuing its mission... We are deliberately and systematically hunting down these murderers, and we will bring them to justice."

He hasn't followed through on any of these statements. Bush is now in high spirits and in high regards with the American people as he was when he got elected. I just pray to God that history doesn't repeat itself and Osama doesn't do anything to bring the focus back to his agenda with the US while we are celebrating our "great victory".

If Bush finds Bin Laden, cures cancer, AIDS and the flu....he'll still be EVIL to some people!