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Inquirer602
08-20-2000, 12:44 PM
How do you, as a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, feel about gay's pledging your organization??

Bsykes
08-20-2000, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Inquirer602:
How do you, as a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, feel about gay's pledging your organization??

I think it is about time to cease all forms of discrimination and welcome all qualified
applicants into the fraternal bond (presuming
sexuality is not among the qualifying criteria).

BSykes (Omicron 1947)

2th-Pick
08-20-2000, 08:38 PM
... Call me prejudice or whuteva... but the answer iz HELL NO!!!
I dont agree with homosexuality... but at the same tyme i dont hate on gayz because they're gay... i hate on gayz that dont know thier role. Their lifestyle doesn't embody whut i think about when i think uv ALPHA PHI ALPHA!!! az a matter uv fact... their lifestyle doesn't embody whut i think about when i think uv BLACK GREEK FRATERNITIES!!! Not to be TOO graphic... but i would NEVER... EVER... make a pledgee lock up with a known homosexual!!! Itz simple az that...
peace

------------------
2 BA SP 96
THE CREATOR OF THE "NO SKATING" ICON SEEN AROUND THE NET!!!

"How do you know where I'm at, if you haven't been where I've been??? Understand where i'm coming from???" - Cypress Hill
"Sah Dah Tay... Say Dah Tay..." - Pootie Tang

Professor
08-21-2000, 11:47 AM
This topic has been briefly discussed in the past. Honestly, I am not sure how I feel. As a matter of fact some of my chapter brothers have also discussed this issue. From what I gather, most feel much like the army - I think the saying is don't ask - don't tell.

7BA94
08-22-2000, 07:32 PM
I agree with that deuce from BA hell no.

Professor
08-30-2000, 09:26 AM
I rec'd this today and it remined me of this topic:

A little girl was playing in the garden when she spotted two spiders
mating. "Daddy, what are those two spiders doing?" she asked.
"They're mating," her father replied.
"What do you call the spider on top, Daddy?" she asked.
"That's a daddy longlegs." her father answered.
"So, the other one is a mommylonglegs?" the little girl asked.
"No," her father replied. "Both of them are daddy longlegs."
The little girl thought for a moment, then took her foot and stamped
them flat and said:
"Well, we're not having THAT sort of shit in our garden!"

Sexy Mocha
08-30-2000, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Professor:
I rec'd this today and it remined me of this topic:

A little girl was playing in the garden when she spotted two spiders
mating. "Daddy, what are those two spiders doing?" she asked.
"They're mating," her father replied.
"What do you call the spider on top, Daddy?" she asked.
"That's a daddy longlegs." her father answered.
"So, the other one is a mommylonglegs?" the little girl asked.
"No," her father replied. "Both of them are daddy longlegs."
The little girl thought for a moment, then took her foot and stamped
them flat and said:
"Well, we're not having THAT sort of shit in our garden!"

LOL Professor!!!

Discogoddess
08-30-2000, 10:37 AM
Judge not lest ye be judged, brothers.

dc1
08-30-2000, 11:51 AM
Nicely put Discogoddess!

------------------
Faced with the Divine, I was asked; "What one gift do you seek?"
I answered ever so meekly; "I seek Honor, Truth, Integrity, and Wisdom, yet those are four. How am I to choose?"
The answer came as a pounding whisper; "The four you seek are but one. I grant thee Compassion; for without it the four make none."
Author - me

Professor
08-30-2000, 06:14 PM
Unfortunately, we live in a society that pass judgement - - - We are judged by our skin color, voice tone, hair texture, intelligence and even Sexual Preference. While I have problems practicing discriminatory acts, I still have a personal opinion and can't control how I feel. In this case, I can only control my actions. After much thought, I have decided that I don't care whom my frat brothers or anyone else sleeps with. I don't ask individuals if they are heterosexual and I am not about to start asking others if they are homosexual, gay or whatever the term is unless it is someone I intend to take to bed.

I know that some will argue that there are individuals wanting membership to the frat that may appear to be or have been accused of practicing homosexual behavior and therefore should not be in our organization. Well, it occurs to me that we have in-take or as some of my brothers state "whatever it is now," for the purpose of ascertaining if we will invite individuals for membership. This is clearly an issue of judgement. However, if we are going to say publicly that we do not want gays in the organization then we may as well say we have a standard practice of discrimination.

While I am not advocating that we post invites at local gay bars I am suggesting that perhaps we should seek confirmation on this issue from the national office. I can honestly say that I am not sure what the official answer to if we will invite an openly or known gay individual for membership but I do know that there are homosexuals already in the frat.

In conclusion, I prefer that my frat consist of heterosexual men. However, "If you don't tell then I want ask."

Post Script: For those that did not like the joke, please accept my apology - the intent was for humor only not judgement!


[This message has been edited by Professor (edited August 30, 2000).]

BrandNubian
08-30-2000, 07:29 PM
This is a very interesting and heated topic. It is also a conversation I have had many times. But I will just ask this: What on the Creator's green earth does someone's sexual orientation have to do with their ability to contribute dedication, time, effort, sisterhood/brotherhood to their organization and service to the community?

B.N.

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

AKA2D '91
08-30-2000, 09:08 PM
So, what do you say to a brother/sister who is gay and has been a member of the fraternity/sorority for many years?

Gays have ALWAYS existed. They are not going anywhere. They exist, I am sure in ALL fraternities and sororities.

The same frat/soror you dapped/hugged at the last meeting or gathering could be just as tutti frutti as the next gay person.

It's something to think about!

BrandNubian
08-30-2000, 10:34 PM
Well said AKA2D'91!! Those were the next words out of my mouth! People (while entitled to their own opinions) need to wake up and realize that homosexuality is not new in general OR in the African-American community. Also it says something about our communities, culture and society when people become so riled up and hyper-focused about something that is just not the end-all-be-all of anyone's personality or life.

And that's how I chose to spend my two cents.. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

Sexy Mocha
08-30-2000, 11:37 PM
Boy do I have many opinions on the topic of homosexuality...BUT, as to not offend anyone's "lifestyle" or beliefs...I will, for once, keep quiet.

dc1
08-31-2000, 11:38 AM
Professor, thank you for clarifying your joke.
I will admit that I took offense to it; as I take offense to racial jokes, jokes about domestic violence, poverty, etc... No harm done.
http://www.lambda10.org/

The link above is something I just ran across. It leads to the Lamba10 Project (geared towards homosexuals in Greek Letter Organizations). I think that the entire site has alot of interesting information in regards to this topic; including statistics, links to nationals, etc.

Check it out



------------------
Faced with the Divine, I was asked; "What one gift do you seek?"
I answered ever so meekly; "I seek Honor, Truth, Integrity, and Wisdom, yet those are four. How am I to choose?"
The answer came as a pounding whisper; "The four you seek are but one. I grant thee Compassion; for without it the four make none."
Author - me

Sexy Mocha
08-31-2000, 12:24 PM
DC1, I took a look at the Lambda10 website.
It made me think... even though I may not agree with someone's lifestyle it doesn't mean I have the right to judge him/her. Thanks for the insight! (As you can see I deleted my previous post) http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

BrandNubian
08-31-2000, 12:53 PM
Sexy Mocha,

Yes I see that you deleted your previous post. I read it last night and I was offended by it. But all I will say is this: it is not our job to "condone" anyone's character, Self, or sexual orientation. The word "condone" indicates in itself a relationship of superior/inferior. Only the Creator has the authority and power to "condone" anything. Do I believe that homosexuality is an offense in the eyes of the Creator? (Well I can never say for sure, being as I am not the Creator) But my answer to that question is a big resounding "No!" I know some won't agree with me, and that's fine. (How many times has the homosexuality and religion discussion been had?) This is just my two cents.

Oh and by the way, why the continuous reference to homosexuality as a "lifestyle"? Is being heterosexual a "lifestyle" too??? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Just something to think about....

Peace, Love and Progression
B.N.

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

BrandNubian
08-31-2000, 12:54 PM
Sexy Mocha,

One more thing. I am not attacking you or your beliefs. And I want to say that I am happy that you came to the conclusion not to judge others. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

One love,
B.N.

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

BrandNubian
08-31-2000, 12:59 PM
OK..my third message of the day.... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

DC1...I checked out the Lambda10 website. I just wanted to say thanx for passing it along. I will do the same...

One,
B.N.

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

dc1
08-31-2000, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Sexy Mocha:
DC1, I took a look at the Lambda10 website.
It made me think... even though I may not agree with someone's lifestyle it doesn't mean I have the right to judge him/her. Thanks for the insight! (As you can see I deleted my previous post) http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I am glad that ya'll looked through the post!

I can't express how happy it made me, Sexy Mocha, to read your post! Once again, it proves that understanding, compassion and love will overcome all differences!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

Brotherly/Sisterly love is the key... I am joyouse in the hope that, one day, ALL good people, gay/lesbian/bisexual included, will be welcomed into the Greek Community! I feel that ALL greek letter organizations are wonderful establishments that can create a sense of community; a community in which welcomes diversity!!

Keep up the love, ya'll!



------------------
Faced with the Divine, I was asked; "What one gift do you seek?"
I answered ever so meekly; "I seek Honor, Truth, Integrity, and Wisdom, yet those are four. How am I to choose?"
The answer came as a pounding whisper; "The four you seek are but one. I grant thee Compassion; for without it the four make none."
Author - me

1Blonde
08-31-2000, 04:58 PM
Is there special sensitivity to the question at hand because Alphas are so often stereotyped as being gay? Are you brothers trying to distance yourself from those stereotypes by opposing gays in your organization as adamantly as possible?

This was the fraternity of MLK, correct? What irony.

I'm never comfortable seeing black people use the same arguments against other groups that have been used to oppress us in the past.

I'm not surprised at the reactions, though I am curious as to how so many of you Alphas are willing to pat 7BA94 on the back when he is at best small minded, at worst ugly and hateful. It says much of you as individuals, and of you as a group in this forum

[This message has been edited by 1Blonde (edited August 31, 2000).]

Sexy Mocha
08-31-2000, 05:03 PM
Like I said, I'm not a close-minded individual. I believe, and I'm woman enough to admit it, that most prejudices stem from ignorance. I guess when you put a face and story to the issue it becomes harder to be judgemental/critical. Hey, to each his own! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Sexy Mocha
08-31-2000, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by 1Blonde:
Is there special sensitivity to the question at hand because Alphas are so often stereotyped as being gay? Are you brothers trying to distance yourself from those stereotypes by opposing gays in your organization as adamantly as possible?

This was the fraternity of MLK, correct? What irony.

I'm never comfortable seeing black people use the same arguments against other groups that have been used to oppress us in the past.

I'm not surprised at the reactions, though I am curious as to how so many of you Alphas are willing to pat 7BA94 on the back when he is at best small minded, at worst ugly and hateful. It says much of you as individuals, and of you as a group in this forum

[This message has been edited by 1Blonde (edited August 31, 2000).]

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif Lawd have mercy.......Blonde1, I'm staying out of this one http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

fatto
08-31-2000, 05:07 PM
Excuse my disrespect, but Professor when and where did u "pledge?" Some of your past response got me wondering!
Once again pardon my disrespect!

------------------
"None other, the #1 Stunna" - Baby, Cash Money Millionaires

BrandNubian
08-31-2000, 05:23 PM
Sexy Mocha,

Thank you for respecting my feelings, as I most certainly respect yours. Peace, Love, Progression <i>and</i> Respect are the keys to uplifting our communities...

One,
B.N.

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

BrandNubian
08-31-2000, 05:25 PM
DC1,

I have to comment you. You have such a positive outlook on things, and that is always a joy. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

BrandNubian

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

BrandNubian
08-31-2000, 05:26 PM
1Blonde,

Strong words, strong words. But....I have to say that you do raise good points and good issues.



------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

Professor
08-31-2000, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by 1Blonde:
Is there special sensitivity to the question at hand because Alphas are so often stereotyped as being gay? Are you brothers trying to distance yourself from those stereotypes by opposing gays in your organization as adamantly as possible?

This was the fraternity of MLK, correct? What irony.

I'm never comfortable seeing black people use the same arguments against other groups that have been used to oppress us in the past.

I'm not surprised at the reactions, though I am curious as to how so many of you Alphas are willing to pat 7BA94 on the back when he is at best small minded, at worst ugly and hateful. It says much of you as individuals, and of you as a group in this forum

[This message has been edited by 1Blonde (edited August 31, 2000).]

Sister - Don't start no S H _ T!!!!

DoggyStyle82
08-31-2000, 06:36 PM
This is not my forum, nor do I care if homosexuals are admitted to APHIA. However, SEXY MOCHA, you should not feel intimidated by the political correctness police in sharing your opinion. If you find gay behavior or lifestyle offensive or not conducive to organizational stability, you should not have to mince your words. It is your opinion, as valuable and insightful as anyone elses regardless of which side of the argument it falls on. Fraternities are private, by invitation only organizations that have membership criteria. They are by nature, discriminatory. They can set whatever criteria they choose. Another thing Sexy Mocha, we all have a right to judge, we just do not have a right to condemn. As individuals, we have no heaven or hell for anyone, but we have the right to associate with whom we wish and we judge whom we want to associate with. Some don't associate with smokers, drinkers, promiscuous, rowdy folks, bible thumpers, and even homosexuals. . People should be allowed to speak their minds, regardless of the political correctness of their feelings. Anything else is thought control. I did not say one hateful or bigoted thing

ahhkbah
08-31-2000, 07:07 PM
Gettin' dicy in here. 1Blonde I've usually found your posts insightful but the one here is more along the lines of insidious. I feel that you should share your mind, but this is an Alpha room and respect its inhabitants. The only thing you should worry about is whether or not someone is doing the work of your org.

Sexy Mocha
08-31-2000, 07:09 PM
DoggyStyle, I wanted to explain to you exactly WHY I felt the need to change up on my thoughts/opinions, but I didn't want to do it here. (I don't want to keep this going) You don't have an e-mail address in your profile, but feel free to e-mail me and we can discuss it further. I believe my address is in my profile.

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).]

Ice Cold Kreator
08-31-2000, 08:09 PM
Blonde 1...

I didn't know that Alpha was synonmous with gay men...All Black Frats deal with this b/c you can find Gay Ques, Kappas and Sigmas...

If one were associate ALPHA with anything...one could feasibly say Arrogant...but this is stupid!

I agree with other frat on this issue who say no...Our Beloved Fraternity is founded on Christian Principles, this is not in line with that

Further, how is having sex with another man a manly deed, it's not!

And can you truly be "brotherly" if you are trying to get with him?

NO NO NO!!!

While, it's not my business...our fraternity supports AGAPE love between it's members, NOT Eros love.

Personally, I don't want to know...It's not my business...I think the organization as a whole frowns on what it deems as sexual immorality....

A PHI,

Ice Cold Kreator

BrandNubian
08-31-2000, 10:25 PM
IceColdKreator,

You said:
"Further, how is having sex with another man a manly deed, it's not!

And can you truly be 'brotherly' if you are trying to get with him?"
--------------------------------------------
In response to your first point...how is being a man who is intimate with another man less than "manly"? That's a stereotype. There are some men who are intimate with women who I don't consider "manly." Anyone can "stick it" (pardon my French) anywhere, but does where they stick it determine their manhood? No, I think not! Manhood is about the way one carries himself; manhood is about carrying oneself with pride and respect and confidence, just to name a few things. And gay men certainly do that. Not all gay men, but then again, not all heterosexual men carry themselves well either.

And as for your second point, don't assume that just because someone is gay, they automatically have sex on the brain, or they trying to see how to "recruit" heterosexuals. Once again, a stereotype. Most gay men are not even thinking about straight men. And I would venture to say that if a gay man had received the privilege of becoming a member of your illustrious brotherhood, he would not be sitting around scheming on how to get his frat brothers in bed. He would be handlin' his, serving the community, representing your organization to the fullest.

Hey, like someone said in a previous post, you have probably already hugged, given daps or pounds to a frat brother who is gay but you don't know it. And..there are probably frat brothers of yours who you admire and respect and they are gay too. So you just never know...just a few thoughts...

Anyway, that's my two cents... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Peace Love and Progression
B.N.

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

Sexy Mocha
09-01-2000, 01:30 AM
BrandNubian, I would say it was not my intention to offend you or anyone else...but that would be dishonest. I like being completely honest with people, and I will not treat you or anyone in this forum any different. The truth is, I just didn't take anyone's feelings into consideration when I made the comment on condoning homosexuality and for that I will apologize.

I still stand strong in my beliefs about homosexuality, but I now understand I am not the one to judge ANYONE, gay or straight.

You did bring up a rather interesting question on whether or not homosexuality/heterosexulaity is a lifestyle.
I actually helped a friend write a paper last year on that particular topic. I have a very good answer for that, but am not sure if it's offensive or not. I don't think I can express it in a way that will not sound judgemental.

I am not a closed minded person...well not too closed minded ... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif which is why I deleted the previous post and thought the situation over. Just because I don't agree with something, doesn't mean I can't respect your feelings.


[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).]

Sexy Mocha
09-01-2000, 01:48 AM
Ok BrandNubian, I think I can answer the question something like this...Yes, I do believe heterosexuality is a lifestyle as well.....just as being religious and going to church regularly is...just as someone who regularly abuses drugs, and practices promiscuity is a lifestyle. The latter is a lifestyle that some of us may deem ,highly inappropriate...but nevertheless, it's a lifestyle for some.
And, for the record, I am not trying to link promiscuity with homosexuality...so don't get pissed or anything, it's the only example that I could think of.

1SSf97
09-01-2000, 11:36 AM
I guess I will sound ignorant and proud of it . No! Homosexuality is not liked by my org., and I think that brandnubian's remarks are hindering any progress of anyone anywhere with his/her ridiculous comments.

The ideals put forth by brotherhood are for the better making of men, not some animal house twisted perversion...How do you feel about sodomites?

BrandNubian
09-01-2000, 05:23 PM
1SSf97:

Well you are entitled to your opinion, but I was troubled by the fact that you called my statements ridiculous. I have tried my best in this forum (and in all forums) to be respectful to others, even when I disagree with them. And certainly I would never call anyone's beliefs/opinions ridiculous. I think that most people on this forum try to be respectful of each other. How else would open forums be maintained, if not with some modicum of respect and consideration? I think that you should extend the same consideration and respect. That's all I ask. You don't have to agree with me...

That's my two cents...

Peace Love and Progression
B.N.

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

The Original Ape
09-01-2000, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Inquirer602:
How do you, as a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, feel about gay's pledging your organization??

Alpha Phi Alpha was founded by SEVEN MEN; not seven undecided! MANHOOD is a pre-requisite. If gays want a fraternity, let them found their own.

Discogoddess
09-06-2000, 10:40 AM
I find it interesting that so many disapprove of the homosexual "lifestyle" yet have no problem engaging in, condoning and celebrating premarital sex and unmarried parenthood among themselves and their peers.

Some of these same people celebrate the fact that they let some MAN beat their ASS in order to get into a fraternity (if that's not homoerotic, I don't know what is!). Or, get all excited about how MANLY they are to do their babymama a "favor" and take care of the out-of-wedlock children (or can we still say "bastards" any more?) they created.

If you're going to take SOME of the moral lessons of our Judeo-Christian tradition (I hope I didn't use too big of a word for some of you), then take all of it, and examine yourselves and your own behavior. What did the Bible say about taking the log out of your eye before telling your sister/brother about the stick in theirs?

Yall are trippin' in here...

BrandNubian
09-06-2000, 03:43 PM
Discogoddess:

Sisterfriend, I salute you on your very well-said post!!! You just dropped some serious knowledge and I agree with EVERYTHING you are saying. Thank you for your post! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Peace Love and Progression,
B.N.

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

AKA2D '91
09-06-2000, 07:21 PM
MY SOROR DG...

SHE HAS DONE IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!

SSSSSKKKKKKEEEEEEEEE-WWWWWEEEEEEEEEEE!

DoggyStyle82
09-07-2000, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by Discogoddess:
I find it interesting that so many disapprove of the homosexual "lifestyle" yet have no problem engaging in, condoning and celebrating premarital sex and unmarried parenthood among themselves and their peers.

Some of these same people celebrate the fact that they let some MAN beat their ASS in order to get into a fraternity (if that's not homoerotic, I don't know what is!). Or, get all excited about how MANLY they are to do their babymama a "favor" and take care of the out-of-wedlock children (or can we still say "bastards" any more?) they created.

.

Who brought these lifestyles into the discussion? (whoremongering and absentee fatherhood) For the women so intent on getting gays admitted into Frats, why not let them in your sorority.? I'm sure they have more in common with you. If a frat doesn't want your hairdresser of interior decorator in their org, why are you upset? No one said that they hate gays or would take rights away from them. It is not Discogoddeses, BrandNubians, or AKA92 place to decide who someone can let in. Like I posted earlier, private orgs can discriminate. Does your chapter accept the campus slut? Does your alumni chapter accept the town hoe? A girl known to get drunk and act a fool in public. A thugged out girl with mannish ways? A butch bull-dyke who rides harleys and chews tobacco?. I think that AKA would have a problem with any of them wearing para or representing your org to the public. But who are you to judge? If all of these women have the grades and great public service records, why judge WHO they are and HOW they lead their lives. If homosexuality is equal or on par with heterosexuality, why is not promiscuity as equally a viable lifestyle as chastity or monagamy? Drunkeness with sobriety? Bull-dyke with Finer Womanhood? Since we all have a "log in our eye" somewhere, and we cannot judge, then all lifestyles (sins) are equivalent, with none neither better nor worse than the others. Other than minimum grade requirements and proof of community service, all other criteria is based on judgement of charcter and lifestyle.

Another thing, having sex with women is what REAL men do (its natural). Initiation into male ritualistic orgs has been the same or similar for at least 3000 years (mentally and physically challenging). I'm sure that the millions of Men who have been initiated over the centuries would be surprised to find out that they are really closeted homosexuals (per your homoerotic reasoning).

Discogoddess
09-07-2000, 10:35 AM
DoggyStyle:

If the shoe fits...(regarding the homoerotic thing). To your point about ritualistic societies of men, many included what we Westerners consider homosexual acts as part of their rituals and/or rites of passage.

I'm not going to argue this with you-you already HAVE gay men in all NPHC fraternities, so this is a moot point. Further, THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, unless you're going to start spending precious fraternity resources on outing and ousting people (never mind the hazing lawsuits, and social and political work that needs to be done in our communities-we've got to hunt down some queers, right? Isn't that sooo important?).

May I also point out, that many of these already initiated, in many cases contributing brothers are the most "manly" and certainly not hairdressers or interior decorators. That stereotype is old and tired, just like this reactionary discussion.




[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited September 07, 2000).]

BrandNubian
09-07-2000, 10:49 AM
Discogoddess:

Once again, very well said! AND once again, I must agree with your points. They are gays and lesbians everywhere, including in the NPHC fraternities and sororities, and all of them DO NOT fit the stereotypical profile given by DoggyStyle82.

And ultimately, the question has to be, "With all the other things in the world to worry about, all the things that a fraternity/sorority sets out to accomplish in its community, is a person's sexual orientation the main concern?"

But that's what I said in my first post...so I guess things just come full circle. This topic IS extremely reactionary...we could go on for days...

Peace, Love and Progression
BN

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

Eclipse
09-07-2000, 10:57 AM
Although I am not a member of any Greek letter organization, I am going to have to use the same point that I used when there was a discussion about single mothers joining sororities on the undergraduate level. Fraternity members have the right to use what ever subjective criteria they choose to pick the members of their frat: tall, short, 4.0 GPA, committed Christians, heterosexual, perfect vision, six toes on one foot---whatever. Since selection is done on a chapter by chapter basis, and their is no way that the same standards could be applied uniformly across the board, I am sure we all know someone who is a member of a sorority/fraternity that probably would not have made the cut on another campus because of the characteristics that chapter deemed more important than others. People are expressing what they would do with their ONE VOTE--not official fraternity policy. They have a right to do that.

MissDiamond
09-07-2000, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
Like I posted earlier, private orgs can discriminate. Does your chapter accept the campus slut? Does your alumni chapter accept the town hoe? A girl known to get drunk and act a fool in public. A thugged out girl with mannish ways? A butch bull-dyke who rides harleys and chews tobacco?. I think that AKA would have a problem with any of them wearing para or representing your org to the public. But who are you to judge? If all of these women have the grades and great public service records, why judge WHO they are and HOW they lead their lives. If homosexuality is equal or on par with heterosexuality, why is not promiscuity as equally a viable lifestyle as chastity or monagamy? Drunkeness with sobriety? Bull-dyke with Finer Womanhood? [/B]

Excellent point! Why hasn't any of the Pro Gay activists responded to it?

I think using quotes from the bible to support your pro homosexual stance is the best example of an oxymororn i've ever seen. What an abomination, how very hypocritical!

So, I guess if I wanted to join a sorority the fact that I live a promiscuous lifestyle (I don't, i'm saying this for arguments sake)wouldn't be an issue right? What if I enjoy smoking weed and drinking? According to you guys, it wouldn't be an issue because the members of the sorority would not have the right to judge the lifestyle that I live.

That's all I have to stay and I'm out!

BrandNubian
09-07-2000, 12:52 PM
Eclipse:

*nodding* Of course, I agree that people have the right to express their opinion and I also know that chapters have the right to their own selection criteria. I think when others and myself express have expressed our opinions on this topic, we are simply inquiring as to which of the criteria (i.e. homosexuality) really has anything to do with the purposes of the organization. Do you know what I'm saying? Speaking for myself (and also looking at some of the posts made my Discogoddess), I am also trying to address some of the stereotypes put forth by other people. I think that's important...

But I was by NO MEANS saying that others can't express their opinions.

Peace Love and Progression,
BN


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"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

MissDiamond
09-07-2000, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by BrandNubian:
They are gays and lesbians everywhere, including in the NPHC fraternities and sororities, [/B]

There are also liars,cheats, drug dealers, whores, drunks, pimps, thieves, etc. everywhere you look....what's you're point?
just because you've/they've managed to sneak into everywhere STILL doesn't make it right! Like Doggystyle said It's not natural!

BrandNubian
09-07-2000, 05:35 PM
Eclipse:

Point taken. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I guess the difference comes in where some people view homosexuality as a "preference" or "lifestyle" - i.e. something unnatural that can be changed and others view it as an orientation, or natural state of being that cannot be changed. But...*throwing hands up* like I said, we could go on and on for days...I would just like to say that I appreciate your input though. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Peace Love and Progression
BN



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"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

Eclipse
09-08-2000, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by BrandNubian:
Eclipse:

we are simply inquiring as to which of the criteria (i.e. homosexuality) really has anything to do with the purposes of the organization. Do you know what I'm saying?


Peace Love and Progression,
BN



BrandNubian,
As I understand it, part of the purpose of Alpha Phi Alpha is to serve and uplift humanity, share the bonds of brotherhood and provide an example of good moral character. The question then becomes, is homosexuality consistent with good moral character? Some will say yes, some will say no. I try to, although I frequently fail, use the Bible as my 'moral compass' to point me in the right direction. Homosexuality is not consistent with the precepts, as I understand them, outlined in the Bible. Of course there are a lot of people who could feed the homeless, tutor the children and fix the homes of the elderly, etc., but that does not mean they could become, or should become members of any Greek letter organization--unless the members of that organization said so.