Masonic Organizations & Hazing

[FreeMasonery]

Is anyone a member of a Masonic organization? My friend told me that they 'pledged him', and at various points while getting deeper and deeper into it, he was hazed. Any comments? I am wondering if this is for me. I like the community service projects they do ....

[ManndingoNUPE]

Your best bet is to probably dig a little deeper with your friend who is already a in the organization. If I were you, I would probably trust the info I got from him, as opposed to strangers on this board who don't know you, and who realy don't have your best interest at heart. (Not trying to be funny), but that's really what I would do. You know this person, and while there is only so much he will tell you, he would probably be your best source of info.

Peace

MN

"And yet the menace of the years finds and shall find me unafraid"

[DIRTY-BILL CLINTON]

NO COMMENT ON FREEMASONRY, BECAUSE IT IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE FORUM TOPIC. THIS MESSAGE BOARD IS FOR GREEK ORGANIZATIONS PERIOD. DIRECT YOUR CONCERNS THROUGH PERSONS IN THE PHYSICAL WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THE LODGE THAT YOU ARE INTERSETED IN.

[thatgirl]

Originally posted by DIRTY-BILL CLINTON:
NO COMMENT ON FREEMASONRY, BECAUSE IT IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE FORUM TOPIC. THIS MESSAGE BOARD IS FOR GREEK ORGANIZATIONS PERIOD.

Didn't you just get through talking about Masonry in the 'BGLO Origins' topic?

[FreeMasonery]

It IS an appropriate topic because there are many people who are involved in both. I am sure that there may be someone who has a comment on this subject. If you do not agree or like the topic, wouldn't it just be easier to click to the next topic and not reply. Have a BLESSED DAY!

[DeltAlum]

The founders of many fraternities were Masons, and parts of some of our Rituals came from Free Masonry. It seems to me to be a decent topic for discussion.

Fraternally,
DeltAlum

[12dn94dst]

Regardless of whether there are Masons in fraternities or not, the question is specifically about Free Masonry, not something like "which did you become a member of first, how were you received by the other org, etc." The information he seeks will DEFINETLY NOT be given here, they do not operate like that. FreeMasonery, If you'd really like to know, I strongly suggest you discuss this further with your friend.

[AEKDB5DGMXX]

Originally posted by FreeMasonery:
Is anyone a member of a Masonic organization? My friend told me that they 'pledged him', and at various points while getting deeper and deeper into it, he was hazed. Any comments? I am wondering if this is for me. I like the community service projects they do ....

But, to answer your question instead of badgering you about it, I am also a Mason, find it very rewarding and was never hazed. I recommend it to all who are interested.

[DeltAlum]

Hi AEK -- whatever,

Your screen name is a lot like the VIN on my car.

Thanks for the information. My father, uncle and grandfather are/were Masons, but I never had an interest.

I believe that since many of the founders of Greek organizations were Masons, and they passed along many of their customs through our rituals, it is educational to get some amount of insight -- without giving away any secrets.

I think it's generally helpful to know as much as you can about your heritage, so I think it is a reasonable question for this forum.

Fraternally,
DeltAlum

[alphabebe]

JUT AN FYI,
I AM A CATHOLIC AND FORBIDDEN TO JOIN THE MASONS. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY ARE AN EVIL GROUP OF PEOPLE, BUT THEY ARE NOT RIGHT IN THEIR BEILEIFS. (MY PERSONAL AND RELIGIOUS BELIEF)I AM CURIOUS TO FIND OUT HOW WE COULD TRACE WHAT SORORITIES AND FRATERNITIES TO THE MASONS??

[DeltAlum]

Alphabebe,

I don't think you will trace any GLO's directly to the Masonic movement.

The point is that some founders of many fraternal organizations were also Masons so some of their ritual, etc. tends to be copied.

This does NOT mean that Masonsic movement has or had anything to do with the governance of those other organizations.

DeltAlum

[33girl]

I think that Acacia Fraternity was somehow associated with Masonry, to what degree I'm unsure. But that was a looooong time ago.

alphabebe - I thought that the "Catholics can't join the Masons" doctrine went out with Vatican II?

[parrotthead]

hey AEKDB5DGMXX, can I ask you a few questions in the Kappa Sigma forum?

[alphabebe]

Originally posted by 33girl:
I think that Acacia Fraternity was somehow associated with Masonry, to what degree I'm unsure. But that was a looooong time ago.

alphabebe - I thought that the "Catholics can't join the Masons" doctrine went out with Vatican II?

yes, there were changes with vatican II, however it does not rule out the masons. the function oftheir secret oath is to get rid of organized religion (all religion) and live in a natural state without any form of law whether it be religious or governed. the only reason we know this is from people who left the order. they do have many beneficial practices within their order, however their basis is quite different from a sorority or fraternity. thanks for asking!!!

[alphabebe]

I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS MAY IN FACT BE HARD TO SWALLOW,BUT I TOO ALSO KNOW THE INFORMATION PROVIDED TO BE A FACT! I HAVE FAMILY FRIENDS TO BE MASONS AND ALTHOUGH THEY ARE FRIENDS WE DIFFER IN THE LIFE CHOICES WE MAKE. NOT A BIG DEAL!! I DO KNOW THAT NOT MANY PEOPLE ARE VERSED IN THEIR BEIELFS AND FIND THE ORGANIZATION HARMELESS, HOWEVER THROUGH THE I GUESS, SO CALLED INITIATION PROCESS THINGS ARE REVEALED. MY POINT WAS TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO RECOGNIZE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SORORITIES AND FRATERNITIES IN COMPARISON TO THE MASONS. JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IS A MASON THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM A BAD PERSON. THAT IS NOT WHAT I WAS TRYING TO CONVEY AND IF THAT IS WHAT YOU PERCEIVED THEN, I APOLOGIZE. HOWEVER, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE KNOW. THANKS FOR LISTENING AND ASKING!

[DeltAlum]

Alphabebe,

I know nothing about the Masons ritual, etc. However, I find what you say hard to believe knowing the Masons I've met -- including my Dad, his late brother and my late Grandfather. I have never had an interest or been a member myself, by the way.

I would simply suggest that you be absolutely sure of your information (which may be true, I suppose). It's awfully easy for a disgruntled former member (or even someone who has never been part of an organization), to spread rumors -- which then take on a life of their own.

Best regards,
DeltAlum

[33girl]

Rainbow Girls is an association for girls 10-18 (I believe that's the age range) for girls who are related to Master Masons or are friends of these girls. (My dad is a Mason can you tell?) I think there is another association called Job's Daughters where your dad has to be a member of the Shrine.

I never got involved, I think because my mom was in Eastern Star for 2.5 seconds and hated it.

[OTW]

I believe the Rainbow Girls can be in the organization from 11 up to the age of 20, and unmarried, if I'm not mistaken. One of my sorority sisters belonged to a northern California chapter of Rainbow (Novato) and I believe she held the office of Grand Confidential Observer for the state of California. They have their own offices, similar to GLOs. Her chapter had their rituals and secret things and of course she couldn't fill me in on everything, but she did show me tapes of "Revelation" at their Grand Assembly, where the current year's officers pass down gifts to their successors for the next year. In addition to that, each assembly has a different mascot for each year.

While the Order of the Rainbow Girls is sponsored by the Masonic Lodges, they are not required to have membership in a Masonic affiliation to be a part of Rainbow.



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*I'm an Alpha Gam...Yes I am, Yes I am!*

[33girl]

Originally posted by BlueReign:
Hi. I hope you don't mind this question -- why did your Mom hate being an Eastern Star?

No biggie BlueReign - actually I think she only went to a few "introductory" meetings. I think it was because we lived in a small town and a lot of the ladies looked on Eastern Star as a jewel in their social crown, somthing to act "snooty" about, and not an opportunity to help others. My mom wasn't the joiner type, she was more into politics or reading a good book. (Part of the reason why when I said I was joining a sorority she kinda went "huh???")

[HeidiHo]

Originally posted by Hootie:
Also, are Masonic groups associated with Awanas (spelling?). I'm so confused. Any help would be appreciated! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

There is a group called the Kiwanas, which is a community service orfanization. I'm not sure if it's related to the Masons

Heidi

[BlueReign]

I never got involved, I think because my mom was in Eastern Star for 2.5 seconds and hated it. [/B]

Hi. I hope you don't mind this question -- why did your Mom hate being an Eastern Star?

[DeltAlum]

BillyMac,

Thanks for the post. That's much more in line with how I've viewed the Masons as an outsider.

It's just too easy for a disgruntled member, or even someone with no real knowledge of an organization to to say things with no basis in fact. And it only takes one person to believe what he/she hears and pass it on as "fact."

Add to that the fact that my Mason grandfather was a very religious man, and I just found some of the stuff above very hard to believe.

Thanks again for helping set the record straight.

DeltAlum

[33girl]

I recently found an old Life magazine my mom must have saved from around 1954 or so. It had an article about Masonry and outlined the two different rites, the organizations affiliated with Masonry, etc. It was really thorough. If you're in a library that has the volumes of Life bound, look for it.

[KABillyMac]

Delt, thanks for the repost, be proud of your father and all your family members. The Masons are a fraternity, although I am a younger member, I enjoy going to lodge and learning life lessons from men who have been there and done that. If you are ever interested approach your father about it.

[Billy Optimist]

I don't know too much about it, but both of grandfathers were/are masons. I think they different rituals though.

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Just because and idea is stupid doesn't mean it won't work.

[KABillyMac]

I am a member of Kappa Alpha Order and I am also a Master Mason. Just to dispell the mthys, we do not pledge or rush men. A man MUST approach a Master Mason and REQUEST to become a member of our lodge. NO, we do not teach men to get rid of religion in their lives. In fact, they must believe in a supreme being (of their choice) to be admitted. We also do not haze in any way. The Masonic Order is a proud group, with a history thousands of years old, there were Masons during the time of the building of King Solomons temple. I am proud of the girl that said her father was a Mason. She knew about the Master Mason. It shows that shes pays attention. Those of you that have friends or parents that are Masons, you should be VERY VERY proud of their affiliation with it. It is very respected worldwide.

[XX1]

Originally posted by alphabebe:
yes, there were changes with vatican II, however it does not rule out the masons. the function oftheir secret oath is to get rid of organized religion (all religion) and live in a natural state without any form of law whether it be religious or governed. the only reason we know this is from people who left the order. they do have many beneficial practices within their order, however their basis is quite different from a sorority or fraternity. thanks for asking!!!



I must disagree. I have taken the Masonic oath, and since memorized it. The oath makes no reference or inference to"get rid of organized religion (all religion) and live in a natural state without any form of law whether it be religious or governed."


I have thuroughly enjoyed the organization and it's members. Also, I know of no policy that forbids the initiation of Catholics.

[crimsonsoror1913]

My brothers saif it best "Caution" is the first lesson you must learn in life. If you do not know the person never reveal information in this type of manner. Some mistakes can be fatal.

[pledgetrainer2]

My father was a Master Mason and a member of the Shrine. All of the men that I met through my participation in Rainbow Girls and Eastern Star were decent, upstanding, Christian and Jewish leaders of the community. They expected, nor settled for nothing less. I don't know of any other religions that were involved, but there probably are, these days.

No other organization, besides the Shriners, does more for children in this country. The burn and orthopedic hospitals that they fund are the best in the world. No child ever gets turned away-and that includes some college aged people, too. You have to be a Mason, before you can join the Shriners.



[This message has been edited by pledgetrainer2 (edited February 11, 2001).]

[Jae]

I've been wondering this forever ...WHAT IS A MASON??????

[pledgetrainer2]

Originally posted by Jae:
I've been wondering this forever ...WHAT EXACTLY IS A MASON??????


Well-a Mason is a member of the Masonic Lodge. It's not associated with a college, but independant of schools. Mostly, older men belong to it.

If you are asking what a mason is-they are builders of buildings, kind of like bricklayers, I think. I know that their symbol has tools of the trade for builders on it.

If I was to guess what they are about, it would be that they are builders of something good in society, because they put a lot of emphasis on family and God, from what I can tell. My dad is not alive for me to ask him any questions about it, so I have to go on memory, from when he was a member.

[KABillyMac]

Free and Accepted Masons are a Fraternity (an Order actually)
Yes the Masons are mostly older men, but some young ones, like me, are in it. Most fraternity founders were Masons, and alot of fraternity symbolism stems from teachings from Masons. The Masonic organizations is thousands of years old. In the times of King Solomon Masons were just that, Masons. They were builders. Now the principles of the builders are taught to those who enter the lodge.

There are 3 degrees in the blue lodge, then after intiation you can join the York or Scottish rite, and recieve more degrees and Masonic teaching. Upon completeing this, you may enter the Shrine (Shriners as they are called).

Interesting fact- as far as philanthropy goes, the masonic organizations combined contribute 3 million dollars a DAY to philanthropy's. Not bad huh?

[Billy Optimist]

There are actully several orders of Masons. I know that there are two who are just called Masons, and they were founded as one, but one found or wrote a different rite (Ancient Accepted Scotish Rite). Then there are other orders you can join such as Shriners, Knights Templar, etc. Some you have to be a Master Mason to join, or be in another order, and some you can join right away.

[unforgettable]

Silly Question...can a girl be a mason? This thread is very informative in that this is the first Ive ever heard of the Masons and ive learned alot so far! Thanks to everyone for all the input!

[Billy Optimist]

Originally posted by unforgettable:
Silly Question...can a girl be a mason? This thread is very informative in that this is the first Ive ever heard of the Masons and ive learned alot so far! Thanks to everyone for all the input!

No, but you can Join Eastern Star. Or another female Masonic group. But the Free Masons are all male.

[Salience]

As far as women being masons, generally not in Europe or America, but I saw a website where there was a Canadian lodge that had both men and women in it.

Genreally, though women are OES and other houses associated with freemasonry.

As a Star, I get really TIRED of the "rumors" about lawlessness and satanic backgrounds and anti-religious fervor attributed to my order. How do people not even remotely associated with the Order know? And the Catholic thing cracked me up!! And my square family knows why this is so funny. Man, it's urban legends taken to another level!!

Whee, I guess it's good for me to vent. Thanks!

[AngelPhiSig]

Hey I dont know if anyone is still posting here, but I was a Rainbow Girl (a younger version of Eastern Star, which is the female version of the Masons) and I was not hazed in anyway... if that helps!

[salexan3]

First of all,
I AM A ACTIVE, DUES PAYING, GRAND CHAPTER CARD CARRYING MEMBER OF THE EASTERN STAR
Second of all,
YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE ORDER OR MASONARY YOU NEED TO DIRECT THOSE QUESTIONS TO ACTIVE MASONS AND EASTERN STARS.

Third of all,
RAINBOW GIRLS, YOU NEED TO ASK A EATSERN STAR ABOUT THAT.

SECRETS OF THE RITUAL SHOULD NEVER BE GIVEN OUT. JUST LIKE YOUR SORORITY OR FRATERNITY INFORMSATION. OR DO YOU TELL THOSE SECRETS OVER THE NET.


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"The Regulator"
#14
Toledo Alumnae Chapter

[Sunny]

My family has a very strong masonic tradition (basically, I'm a legacy, many time over). Althought today there are no direct ties between greek and masons, many people are members of both groups. Many Job's daughters, Rainbow girls and Demolay choose to rush when they enter college. For clarification, Job's Daughters MUST be related to a Master Mason. Rainbow Girls require a recommendation, but not a direct relation. Demolay is a similar organization for young men. These organizations are very similar to greek organizations, based on sisterhood/brotherhood, service, and socializing. They teach many wonderful lessons, and provide many useful skills. And in my case, 9 years of involvement in Job's Daughters sparked my intrest in Sororities, because when I went away for college, I felt I needed to find an organization which fufilled a similar purpose. If anyone has any questions, I'd be hapy to help!

[dekeguy]

Interesting thread. Some good info and some very weird and very wrong info. The Masons are an ancient fraternity who require an absolute belief in God and who encourage you to serve your God according to your beliefs. Lots of info available on the Web. The primary difficulty between the Masons and the Catholic Church was based on a misunderstanding which came about during the French Revolution. Certain French lodges rejected belief in the Deity and actively sought the destruction of the Church during and after the revolution. Regular (legit) Masons rejected this approach and the Grand Master of Masons in England condemned these outlaw masons. The rest of the regular Masonic world followed suit and cut off communication with this irregular branch, known as the Grand Orient of France. Needless to say the Catholic Church was not too happy about a group trying to eliminate religion in France. Ofer the years Catholics were forbidden to join the Masons based on the belief that the Masons were their sworn enemies. During the 1960's a number of senior Masons began talking with a number of Cardinals and the Masons discovered that the Church was not opposed to them in principle but was under the impression that there was a deep animosity between the two. The Cardinals began to realize that while some Masons may not have particularly liked Catholics there was nothing in Masonry that conflicted with the Church, if fact there was rather a lot that both groups held in mutual high regard. This led to a meeting between the Duke of Kent, the Grand Master of Masons in England and Pope Paul VI. They found that they were in close agreement, that they both rejected the outlaw masons position, and that there was no real difficulty. Pope Paul VI then lifted the ban on Catholics joining the Masons and the Masons stated officialy that there was no objection to Catholics joining the Masons. The current Pope, John Paul II issued a pastoral letter about ten years ago reaffirming that there was no reason why Catholic laymen could not be Masons if they joined legitimate lodges and avoided the lodges that main stream Masons condemned as well. These outfits are certain French lodges, some other politically active european lodges, and some South American anti-clerical lodges.
My Grandfather was a Mason and a Catholic and assured me that there was nothing in Masonry that any one could find offensive to his religious beliefs. He also pointed out that Greek letter fraternities are directly decended from the Masons and that any fraternity man would recognize this immediately upon going through the degrees of Masonry. I have since been initiated into my grandfather's lodge in England, have become a Master Mason, and have gone through the York Rite degrees in the USA and have been received in Chapter in the United Kingdom. Wow, I saw what he meant. Would any other masonic greeks please join in and help set straight a lot of misunderstandings? While some things are private, mostly recognition issues and ritual specifics, there is a lot that Masons can, and are encouraged to, discuss openly. I think it is a very appropriate subject because the link between the Masonic world and the Greek world is rather like father and son.

[DZTUBAGIRL]

Hootie:

I'm not sure if you meant to say Kiwanas but Awanas is a church youth group and have nothing to do with the masons. I don't know anything about Kiwanas, I think it might be some community service organization.

Anne Marie

[TrojanGirl]

Kiwanas are a co-ed service group that raise money for many local and and national causes that involve children.

Kiwanis National Website (http://www.kiwanis.org/)

TG

[teke4life]

you CAN be a catholic and a mason. it is a recent development, but the masons accept catholics now and a catholic can freely associate with the masons. the only thing you can't do is be a mason and a knight of columbus. sort of like the glo rule of not joining another national fraternity.

[avalanche06]

This is a very interesting topic. I am a member of both a GLO and a newly raised Master Mason. There are a lot of similarites, but quite a few differences. If you really want to know about the subject of Freemasonry, I suggest that you do your own research and talk to people who are still ACTIVE in their respective lodges. Just like the several chapters of fraterniteis, each lodge does things differently.

[FuzzieAlum]

Silly Question...can a girl be a mason? This thread is very informative in that this is the first Ive ever heard of the Masons and ive learned alot so far! Thanks to everyone for all the input!

Actually, there is a branch of Masonry called co-masonry that is co-ed. I think they have a website.

All the other Mason-affiliated groups require you to be a wife or daughter of a male Mason, except for Rainbow Girls, I believe. And they are "auxillery" groups, not Masons.

[pirate00]

This site (http://www.grandlodge-nc.org/freemasonry_revealed.htm) gives the BEST description of Freemasonry. PERIOD.

[Glitter650]

As a majority member of the international rainbow for girls.. (a girls service organization sponsered by the masons) and a member of eastern star I can so NO hazing goes on in either of those organziations. Rainbow is VERY similar to a GLO sorority in their ritual and beliefs that they try to instill.. (service to others... sisterhood... academics etc...) AND I have to say that anyone who doesn't belong shouldn't be speculating on their beliefs because You haven't been through their initiation. As far as I know they have the same beliefs as anyone else with strongs morals. They do philanthropy.. believe in honesty...helping children... Etc... I see nothing wrong with this. Also MANY MANY masons I know go to church every Sunday. THey also don't push their beliefs onto anyone.. you have to ask to become a member.. they can't ask you to join.

[dzandiloo]

I am also a majority member - Rainbow Girl, and I am really enjoying this topic. Rainbow may very well be the least mystifying of the Masonic organizations. The Installation of officers ritual is open to all who are invited, and the rules regarding the Initiation ceremony were changed about 10 years ago, (which was previously closed to all but duly initiated members of Masonic organizations) to allow the non-masonic parents of the initiates to attend. We had 2 Catholic girls in our group--their parents were Masons/Eastern Stars.

Rainbow truly changed my life, and renewed my faith in God and people in general. My grandparents were members of the Masons/Eastern Stars but left long before they died. Which leads me to my biggest beef about the OES--because I am not related to a Mason in good standing, I could not become a member of the OES. I'm sure they have their reasons, but it seems to me that they are unnecessarily limiting themselves in this day and age (My father believes all Masons are members of the Klan...and used to rag me regularly when I had Rainbow functions).

Oh well--so I throw myself into DZ. Rainbow seems to be dying, which makes me sad b/c I know how wonderful it was to be a member.

BTW-The Achoth Sorority was founded in 1910--meant for women affiliated with the OES--their symbols were all OES related, so it's possible their ritual was OES related. Achoth became Phi Omega Pi--joined NPC and dropped the masonic affiliation in 1933. Phi Omega Pi later merged into Delta Zeta.

[MooseGirl]

I think the reason some ppl have/had negative views about the Masons was because a man who had left the order wrote a supposedly tell-all book about the Masons and their ritual.
In one of my classes my Prof told us about the book, and how their oaths were described as being near satanic and that some oaths included crazy things like if you ever said anything, you would be physically harmed, the deeper you got into it the more horrible the oath....
anyway, that book is out there, I guess, and it was very controversial, so that's prolly why some ppl misunderstand the Masons....just like some ppl misunderstand us Greeks!
I too was a bit prejudiced against the Masons and Shriners but reading this thread has helped me realize that they really aren't too different from us (except they seem to give a lot more) and my friend keeps insisting that since her grandfather was a Shriner they must be great Men.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and info,

[confusedgrl83]

I'm a Rainbow Girl too... *not majority yet* I think it is truly one of the best organizations for young women and could be considered a sorority without the greek letters. As for being so secretive, every masonic organization's ritual is on file at the library of congress and while I am not sure if the "secret work," the various signs and responses are there, these secrets are not meant to harm anyone and are just a large part of the beauty of our ritual work.
As a daughter of parents who are very active in masonic groups and Catholics as well, I can say that these groups have brought us closer together as a family and I can only hope I can find such a group at college.. which brings me into my problems with sororities at my school.. but that's another story. Again, this topic is great!
:D

[justamom]

As a daughter of parents who are very active in masonic groups and Catholics as well, I can say that these groups have brought us closer together as a family...

That's not how it worked in my family. When my Uncle joined, my Grandfather disowned him. He was 89 when he cut him out of the will and it broke his heart.

[Dionysus]

thatgirl,

What high school did you attend?

[ZetaLuvBunny]

How strange! My mom always talked about how she was a Rainbow Girl when she was little, because she was comparing it to my having been in Girl Scouts. I had no clue from the way my mom talked about it that Rainbow Girls had anything secretive involved in it. Girl Scouts certainly doesn't. Sure Girl Scouts has rituals, badges, etc, but none of it is secret in the least..

[ZetaLuvBunny]

OKay... weird how you don't know some of this stuff about your family, but I just called my mom to ask her again about the Rainbow Girls thing and she said there WERE secret rituals & stuff, and that apparantly my grandfather was a Mason and my great grandmother was an Eastern Star, aside from lots of my relatives being in GLOs. Hmm... Strange how you find you find out stuff like this all of the sudden... weird...

[Eirene_DGP]

Originally posted by 33girl
I think that Acacia Fraternity was somehow associated with Masonry, to what degree I'm unsure. But that was a looooong time ago.

alphabebe - I thought that the "Catholics can't join the Masons" doctrine went out with Vatican II?

33girl,

Your are right, that did go out with Vatican II. That used to be the case but not anymore.

Alphabebe-If you want some more info on Eastern Star which women are allowed to join www.easternstar.org

[Glitter650]

Actually as a rainbow girl I can say yes there are rituals involved. actually they are more involved than any ritual stuff involved with my sorority.... by that, (without giving away too much info) I mean the rainbow rituals take more time and generally involve more talking... and A LOT of walking... anyone who has been to an installation of any masonic org (which are all open rituals) knows how much walking is involved.. and although some of them are not open to the public... (initiation, meetings) all of the rainbow cermemonies are open to the parents of rainbow girls and the adult organizations that support rainbow. (Masons, Eastern Star) And as someone has said before, the rainbow ritual book is actually a published book and is in the library for any of you that are curious. If any one has any questions about rainbow or Eastern star... PLEASE PLEASE ask someone who knows... (IE has been directly involved in the org) because some of the stuff I've been hearing about rainbow and masons AREN"T true at all and I know we all know what it's like to be stereotyped by people who have no clue about what the organization we belong to is about. :D

[Mystic Cat32]

I have spent the last semester and a half researching Freemasonry and secret socities. I have found many parallels in Masonry and our ritual. Masonry gave birth to all fraternities, secret societies, and sororities(Order of the Easter Star). There currently is a bid on me to enter the lodge and I am looking forward to it. As far as hazing is concerned I am a former Veteran and believe in the ideals of war. I am prepared mentally and physically for anything.

[cutiepatootie]

Ok some have dispelled some turths and myths here. I am a Past member of the international order of Job's Daughters. Rainbow and Demolay are also groups listed as Masonic youth orders. They are related to masons. Job's Daughters has to be related to as master mason to be initated. Rainbow and demolay are sponsered by a mason.
I am a legacy gazillions of times over by Masons and Eastern stars in my family and i know many members of these youth groups who have gone ont to be greek in college.
The age range for the youth group is 11 to 20 yrs of age and the demolay are 21 if i believe.

[cutiepatootie]

I have been reading more and more into this thread and i am amazed how many ppl don't realize there masonic heritage. Anyways. i have been fasicnated by this thread because i am seeing a lot of masonic youth postings here from GLO members.
A lot of the masoinic youth orders are very full and rich in heritage and ritual. Symbols is what our orders are based upon. I can also say coming from a line full of masons and Eastern stars i have never heard once of any hazing that happens in the youth or masoinc orders.
I am very proud of my heritage with Job's daughters and what this group has taught me in leadership , respect for my country and its flag, my civic cumminity work, as well as responsiblity and love of the order. this org has made me the person i am today...strong , confident, loyal and caring. Just as the GLO teach each and every member they nurture and care for.:D :D

[Ms. Jay]

I am an Easter Star and I was not hazed in any way. I am very active with my lodge. I love being an Eastern Star, it is one of the best choices I have ever made. My grandfather and two cousins are Mason and they too have no regrets!!!

[FHwku]

there is no masonic hazing.

[TPASteph]

I think that Acacia Fraternity was somehow associated with Masonry, to what degree I'm unsure. But that was a looooong time ago.

Actually, Acacia is still associated with Masonry. I was actually talking about this with one of my roommates at school and when you join Acacia you actually join a Masonry also. (Which could explain why the brothers I know there are always so damn busy!) I want to say it's Freemasons but I honestly don't remember and she isn't online right now for me to ask. I'll let you know which it is if she ever gets back online.

I have a question of my own though. This may be a dumb question, but since it's 4:17am please bear with me. How did men (say dad-age, like 50-ish, or grandfathers etc.) become masons? Did they have to go through college? None of the men in my family went to college and I'd feel dumb just out and asking them if they were involved with the Mason or not, so I figured I'd ask here first. Thanks!

[33girl]

Originally posted by TPASteph
I have a question of my own though. This may be a dumb question, but since it's 4:17am please bear with me. How did men (say dad-age, like 50-ish, or grandfathers etc.) become masons? Did they have to go through college? None of the men in my family went to college and I'd feel dumb just out and asking them if they were involved with the Mason or not, so I figured I'd ask here first. Thanks!

Nope, being a Mason has nothing to do with college. The majority of Masons and Shriners in my dad's chapter never took any college courses at all.

As far as how did they become Masons to begin with, it's like that old ad "I told 2 friends and so on and so on." From what Dad told me, you have to be asked to join by a present member and it is taboo to bring it up yourself. Whether that's still the way it's done everywhere I'm not sure.

[dekeguy]

To join a lodge of Masons one needs to be 21 years old, of good character, and be proposed and seconded in open lodge and voted on in a process much like a 'ball session' complete with a voting box with white balls and black cubes or some similar process. College is not required to join the Masons. It was started centuries ago by stone masons who taught moral and philosophical beliefs by using the tools of a stone mason to illustrate these.
Actually, the candidate has to ASK to join the lodge, as Masons are not supposed to recruit but rather to respond to a request. All one needs to do is bring up the subject to a Mason and he is then free to explain the process. With minor variations, the interested party asks something like, "Hay, you are a Mason, what is that all about?" Then the Mason explains the history, aims and purposes, and general info. If the candidate is interested in going further he is given a 'petition' form which is filled in by the candidate and then signed by a sponsor and one or more seconders. Most lodges require that one has known the candidate for a period of time and can recommend him with confidence. So, those who actually sponsor the candidate are usually people who have known him for some time. Then the petition is read in lodge and a committee of three or more who are not his sponsors is appointed to do a bit of research on the candidate. This involves meeting the candidate at home or some convenient location like lunch, or dinner, or someplace where a quiet conversation can be held, and asking him certain questions regarding his understanding of what Masonry is all about, what his beliefs are (one has to believe in God in order to be a Mason), and whether the candidate will be able to dedicate enough time to participate in the lodge instructions and activities. Assuming the candidate gets a good report, his name is proposed for election in open lodge, the committee reports formally that he is in their judgment a good candidate, the sponsors can speak for him, and the lodge at large is invited to say anything pertinent. Then a vote is taken and if he receives all white balls he is elected. As a safeguard, if there is one black one the vote is retaken to make sure there was no error. It takes 100% to elect. At this point the candidate is asked to come to the lodge. He may be told that he is to meet a few more of the brothers or he may be told that he has been elected. Different lodges have minor variances in this. Anyway, when he arrives he is received warmly, prepared, and then goes through the ritual of the first degree. He is now a Mason but not fully fledged. He has to go through prep and verbal examination to go on the the second degree and then more prep and exam to go to the third degree. When he receives the third degree he is a full Master Mason. This is the heart and soul of masonry and all one needs to do. The other degrees are ways of getting more into the history and development of the Order and are very rewarding, but not required for one to be a full Mason.
The Shrine is a seperate yet related organization which requires one to be a Master Mason in order to join but is not required of all Masons. All Shriners are Masons, not all Masons are Shriners.
The Masons keep the ritual and recognition signs closely held secrets but are not really a secret society. One can tell anyone that one is a Mason just like a Beta or a Lambda Chi can say so. Masons can wear their badge (square and compasses) just like a greek badge or letters on clothing. Everything I have written here is 'open' info and there are lots of good masonic websites if you are interested. If you have any more questions I'll try to come up with good answers. By the way, Mason and Freemason are interchangable when refering to the Order.
I have received Masonic degrees both in the US and in England. Without going anywhere I should not, I can say that it is obvious that Masonry is the Father of Greek Letter Organizations.

[TPASteph]

Thanks 33girl. :)

[33girl]

Thank you dekeguy. I had a feeling I wasn't explaining that right but I was very tired :p. Your explanation of the petitioning process is pretty much exactly what my dad told me.

[bro_strawter]

Discussing any of this is totally against my obligation. If you want to know about the order, I suggest you go to www.freemasory.org

[dekeguy]

Bro_Strawter,
As a point of info, before I posted on the subject I ran my comments past Grand Lodge. I was told that all my comments are definitely open info and Grand Lodge policy was for all MMs
to get good and accurate comments out to give the world at large a better understanding of what Masonry is all about. They pointed out that the MWGM of the United Grand Lodge of England had challenged all Masonic jurisdictions in communication to be proactive in spreading the light. The obligation requires one to safeguard private matters but it can be argued that the obligation also calls upon all of us correct misunderstandings and show all what we stand for. Caution is commendable but there is rather a lot that can and should be shared. A quick call to your jurisdiction's Grand Secretary's office will provide authoritative guidance.
Fraternal greetings and best regards,
WB dekeguy

[bro_strawter]

I agree. My post was not directed toward you my brother. Actually, people have pm-ed me regarding things that I cannot discuss and it was getting on my nerves, so I basically put it out there as to say.."don't ask me anything." If you guys feel compelled to discuss the Order with outsiders, then that fine by me. You're absolutely right, there are some things regarding the Order outsiders should know...however, I'm not the type of brother to openly indulge in such conversations.



Originally posted by dekeguy
Bro_Strawter,
As a point of info, before I posted on the subject I ran my comments past Grand Lodge. I was told that all my comments are definitely open info and Grand Lodge policy was for all MMs
to get good and accurate comments out to give the world at large a better understanding of what Masonry is all about. They pointed out that the MWGM of the United Grand Lodge of England had challenged all Masonic jurisdictions in communication to be proactive in spreading the light. The obligation requires one to safeguard private matters but it can be argued that the obligation also calls upon all of us correct misunderstandings and show all what we stand for. Caution is commendable but there is rather a lot that can and should be shared. A quick call to your jurisdiction's Grand Secretary's office will provide authoritative guidance.
Fraternal greetings and best regards,
WB dekeguy

[PHAtraveller]

bro_strawter,

I think that as, 21st century Masons, we must open up to the public and release information that is useful to the public. This will cut down on the number of "bogus" groups, especially within Prince Hall Masonry.

dekeguy,
Ypu have the right idea to start spreading the "light" to those who want it.


Bro. CDM, 32 degree
MWPHGL of IL

[bro_strawter]

Once again, I agree. We must inform the masses of our order to help rid many misconceptions that comes with the name Freemasonry. However, some of the post that I've seen on here was totally out of ORDER which is why I made my previous statements. I guess it's just the Southern Jurisdiction in me.

Nashville, Tennessee
P.H.A

Originally posted by PHAtraveller
bro_strawter,

I think that as, 21st century Masons, we must open up to the public and release information that is useful to the public. This will cut down on the number of "bogus" groups, especially within Prince Hall Masonry.

dekeguy,
Ypu have the right idea to start spreading the "light" to those who want it.


Bro. CDM, 32 degree
MWPHGL of IL

[cutiepatootie]

Being a Job's Daughter for 20 years...scary but true... That is what sparked MY huge interest in wanting to become a greek. Job's Daughters, Rainbow, And Demolay give their members the same as GLOs...ritual, philantropy, social and business opputunities to particpate in.
I am a true legacy of the Masons 30 times over. I have a father and grandfathers and mother and grand mothers and aunts and uncles and cousins and brothers and sisters who just in my intermediate family alone. Not to mention the many that came before us involved in the masonic family, who some were are GREEKS. What i am trying to say is this ...yes these groups are not GLOs , but they sure the heck function the same. I am proud of my membership in Job's daughters ,but i am even prouder when i belong to a GLO!

Masons are the most philantropic group i have ever seen. My grand father alone has referred many a child to Shriners hospital in Los Angeles as he was a cop and seen so much low income families not able to afford health care as well as my father who is a Doctor and knew of many paitents with kids.

Masons give tons of Scholarship money yearly to COLLEGE students. I myself have had a few of those scholarships. They also give to elementry schools by sponsering them when they need supplies and to other schools as well.


I agree this is a GLO website and masonic groups may not belong, but a lot of these greeks were once members of these goups and or still are. but some of these GLO orgs were founded or were somewhere in their deep and rich history derived from the Masons. Arcaicia and Delta Zeta have had ties in their past long ago to the Masons and OES before they seperated to belong to IFC and NPC.

I use to love it when my grand dad would drive me around in his lil red shriner car...... that was a blast to be in parades with him!


my very own 2 cents! :D

laura

[Energizer420]

What is a masonic organization?

[Glitter650]

a masonic organization is any organization which is affiliated with the Masons, Eastern Star, Rainbow girls, order of Demolay, White Shrine, and many many more. They each have a different and unique history but they each started somehow because of a link to the Masons.

[bro_strawter]

I wish it was that simple for me to join...to solicit online. I'm not understanding. :eek:

[AlphaSigOU]

Originally posted by 33girl
I think that Acacia Fraternity was somehow associated with Masonry, to what degree I'm unsure. But that was a looooong time ago.

Acacia Fraternity was founded by Master Masons, and until the 1920s required membership in the Masonic fraternity before joining. Today, Acacia chapters are sponsored or supported by local Masonic Lodges in the university community.

[nyrdrms]

I've just read over this entire thread and found it interesting how everyone seems to have their own beliefs concerning the Masons, just as they do with Greek organizations. I think the thing that is most important here is to remember that we all take offense to the stereotypes of Greek life... yet so many still have stereotypes concerning other organizations with similarities.

I am Catholic, I'm in a sorority, and I was a member of Job's Daughter's when I lived in California. Each of these institutions has made me who I am today...and none of it involved hazing in any way.

[AKPsiZY]

as a mason, i can tell you that what you said about "the function oftheir secret oath is to get rid of organized religion (all religion) and live in a natural state without any form of law whether it be religious or governed" is complete garbage. whoever told you that is completely misinterpreting what they heard, or just being lied to.

masonry is the cornerstone upon which america's freedom of religion was based, and as well, no athiest may become a mason.

so why would an organization that wants to 'get rid of all religion' require a belief in God? seems odd doesnt it?

Originally posted by alphabebe
yes, there were changes with vatican II, however it does not rule out the masons. the function oftheir secret oath is to get rid of organized religion (all religion) and live in a natural state without any form of law whether it be religious or governed. the only reason we know this is from people who left the order. they do have many beneficial practices within their order, however their basis is quite different from a sorority or fraternity. thanks for asking!!!

[AKPsiZY]

oh, and there is no masonic hazing, as well.

masons are strictly business in their processes.

[cutiepatootie]

Originally posted by nyrdrms
I've just read over this entire thread and found it interesting how everyone seems to have their own beliefs concerning the Masons, just as they do with Greek organizations. I think the thing that is most important here is to remember that we all take offense to the stereotypes of Greek life... yet so many still have stereotypes concerning other organizations with similarities.

I am Catholic, I'm in a sorority, and I was a member of Job's Daughter's when I lived in California. Each of these institutions has made me who I am today...and none of it involved hazing in any way.

yippee! another california Job's Daughter! Which Bethel did you belong to?

[AlphaSigOU]

Brother Dekeguy... what lodge are you in? Mine's Plano #768, Grand Lodge of Texas (though my mother lodge is Triune #15, San Antonio, TX). I'm also Eastern Star as well. (Plano #703)

[AlphaSigOU]

Originally posted by Glitter650
a masonic organization is any organization which is affiliated with the Masons, Eastern Star, Rainbow girls, order of Demolay, White Shrine, and many many more. They each have a different and unique history but they each started somehow because of a link to the Masons.

Quick guide to Masonic and Masonic-affiliate organizations:

International Order of the Rainbow for Girls (IORG): Open to girls 11-20, do not require Masonic parental affiliation.

International Association of Job's Daughters (IOJD): Open to girls 11-20, requires Masonic parental affiliation for membership.

Order of Demolay: Open to boys 12-21, does not require Masonic parental affiliation.

Order of the Eastern Star: Open to women 18 years and older, who have Masonic family ties or if no Masonic ties, be at least a majority member of Rainbow for at least 3 years. Males must be Master Masons in good standing.

White Shrine of Jerusalem: Open to men and women 18 and older, requirements same as OES except for Rainbow clause.

Blue (Symbolic) Lodge: Open to men at least 21 years of age (some jurisdictions allow entry at 19 or 18). Must be of good character and apply of his own free will and accord. Three degrees: Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master Mason.

Scottish Rite: Open to all Master Masons, confers the 4th through the 32nd degree. Being a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason does not make you a higher-degree Mason than one who only completed the first three degrees in Blue Lodge.

York Rite: Open to all Master Masons, confers degrees in three distinct bodies: Chapter of Royal Arch Masons, Council of Royal and Select Masters and Order of Knights Templar. You must profess a belief in the Christian religion to become a Knight Templar.

Shrine: Open to all Master Masons (previously, one had to either be a 32-degree Scottish Rite or Knight Templar in the York Rite before becoming a member). Famous for their Shrine Hospitals.

Grotto: Open to all Master Masons. Primary philanthropy is dentistry for the handicapped.

National Sojourners/Heroes of '76: Open to Master Masons who are current, retired or former officers or senior non-commissioned officers of the U.S. Armed Forces (though honorary membership is conferred on those who do not meet the membership requirements). Heroes of '76 is a 'side degree' performed by members who wear Revolutionary War costumes.

[DeltaGammaRocks]

I was a rainbow girl in California :)

[100thdegree]

Shriners have to first be 32nd degree masons to be enter the Shrine. The masonic court allegedly rules on people and enters decrees. I have been told If you become an outcast no Mason or Shirner is allowed to render aid to you forever.
What happens if you go to a masonic doctor as an outcast or someone labled an A M (anti-mason)?
Do they treat the symptoms or cure you, and why do they always ask after, do you fill I have aided you.

Has anyone labled an A M noticed strange treatment by those who allegedly are shriners? Some are covert members (not true members).

The fix one thing, break a few more things treatment?

Anyway, my family is many generation masonic. Being long-term Government I am not to get involved in organizations that hold secrets outside of Government organizations, or any organization that would lend itself to the appearance of bias.
The oaths to believe a fellow mason and shriner over all non-member's word creates the appearance of bias so is taboo for me. Their oath to rush to the aid of a master mason, and to aid a brother or sister mason
(fly to their aid) and protect them in every case except murder and treason gives the appearance of obstruction of Justice, so that again makes it taboo.

As to the question of hazing of new members, all that is not need to know. The leadership at the National Grand Lodge in D.C. said that they cannot tell the secrets of the Masonic order but do not care if people find them out on their own.
Most of us, including myself do not want to know their secrets, and only when people have claimed injustice at the hands of a masonic member is it required and necessary to understand the truth for justice sake. American justice system could not work without officers, agents and all others in the Legal system of the United States need to have a working knowledge of any oaths, or organization biases to avoid potential obstruction to Justice.

This is all the allegations that are discussed at street level and you would need to research it on for yourself from the volumes of data provided by the Masonic order, the Order of the Eastern Star, Daughters of Job, Rainbow for Girls, Dem...for boys, and various under groups with in the masonic order, and through deep cover agents within the ranks, if any.

[preciousjeni]

:confused:

[DrPhil]

:confused:

[KSigkid]

:confused:

:confused:

I think the reason we don't understand that post is that we didn't have our helping of crazy this morning with breakfast.

[MysticCat]

I think the reason we don't understand that post is that we didn't have our helping of crazy this morning with breakfast.
http://www.cerealfreak.com/pictures/cereal-freak-11620.jpg

[chopper599]

I think the reason we don't understand that post is that we didn't have our helping of crazy this morning with breakfast.


Sorry, but why is that being a 32 Degree Mason?

If you are not even a Blue Lodge Brother what do you know?

Masonic does not beleive in hazing and a person has to be asked to become a member not the other way around. You do not join, you are asked to join by some one who feels you are worthy.
Yes from from what I have seen, there are glos who were founded by the Masonic, Acacia being one.

While there are differnet levlels at each Degree they must be earned.
I was a member of LXA who much of the teachings came from the Masons, I find nothing wrong with that as many greek organizations have done before me and you.
I find some of the things posted here inane and unknowing.

[knight_shadow]

Sorry, but why is that being a 32 Degree Mason?

If you are not even a Blue Lodge Brother what do you know?

Masonic does not beleive in hazing and a person has to be asked to become a member not the other way around. You do not join, you are asked to join by some one who feels you are worthy.
Yes from from what I have seen, there are glos who were founded by the Masonic, Acacia being one.

While there are differnet levlels at each Degree they must be earned.
I was a member of LXA who much of the teachings came from the Masons, I find nothing wrong with that as many greek organizations have done before me and you.
I find some of the things posted here inane and unknowing.

:rolleyes:

[chopper599]

:rolleyes:
So seeing your oppinion, are you a Mason?


No matter what being a Member of a Black/White Mason Brother, you are still a Mason and times are changing.
There is nothing that I know of in Masonic teachings having to do with color in todays society.
If I am wrong, please explain to not only me but all others on this site. Please PM me so I can understand your references.

[MysticCat]

Masonic does not beleive in hazing and a person has to be asked to become a member not the other way around. You do not join, you are asked to join by some one who feels you are worthy.
Yes from from what I have seen, there are glos who were founded by the Masonic, Acacia being one.

I find some of the things posted here inane and unknowing.You mean like using "Masonic" as a noun rather than as an adjective? (The noun is "Masonry" or "Freemasonry.") Or like your mistaken idea that a person does not ask to become a Mason? 2B1ASK1, you know.

Something seems very Earpish here. Very Earpish indeed. :rolleyes:

[knight_shadow]

So seeing your oppinion, are you a Mason?


No matter what being a Member of a Black/White Mason Brother, you are still a Mason and times are changing.
There is nothing that I know of in Masonic teachings having to do with color in todays society.
If I am wrong, please explain to not only me but all others on this site. Please PM me so I can understand your references.

Who said anything about race? My "opinion" is a reference to your post not making sense.

You mean like using "Masonic" as a noun rather than as an adjective? (The noun is "Masonry" or "Freemasonry.") Or like your mistaken idea that a person does not ask to become a Mason? 2B1ASK1, you know.

Something seems very Earpish here. Very Earpish indeed. :rolleyes:

My thoughts exactly.

[Senusret I]

http://manolomen.com/images/oompa%20loompa.JPG

I don't like the look of it.

[CougarGrad]

Being long-term Government I am not to get involved in organizations that hold secrets outside of Government organizations, or any organization that would lend itself to the appearance of bias.


Are you serious? Do you know how many of our government's founding officials were Masons? Do you realize how many people currently involved with our government may be Masons?

My husband is a Mason, and there are so many other things wrong with your post... really too many to address on this forum.

[DrPhil]

http://manolomen.com/images/oompa%20loompa.JPG

I don't like the look of it.

He's hot! :eek:

[MysticCat]

Something seems very Earpish here. Very Earpish indeed. :rolleyes:Responding to myself to note that chopper599 has been banned, and after only 7 posts. I guess he was indeed Earpish.

[nittanyalum]

I have nothing to contribute to this conversation, I just wanted to wave hi to MC and Chaos. Hi! *waving*

[DrPhil]

I have nothing to contribute to this conversation, I just wanted to wave hi to MC and Chaos. Hi! *waving*

HEY, my Sex and the City buddy!!! :D

MC, there is no excuse for quoting yourself. :p

[MysticCat]

I have nothing to contribute to this conversation, I just wanted to wave hi to MC and Chaos. Hi! *waving*Hey! Did you catch TAR Sunday night? I bet we could have moved that cheese! :D

MC, there is no excuse for quoting yourself. :pWe'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. :p

(ducking and covering)

[DrPhil]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. :p

(ducking and covering)

grrrrrrrr :mad:

[kiteflyerzl]

My husband is a Mason and a Shriner. I have never heard him make reference to any hazing in his experience becoming a Mason. I do know for a fact though that he was hazed as part of his initiation into the Shrine.

[Senusret I]

My husband is a Mason and a Shriner. I have never heard him make reference to any hazing in his experience becoming a Mason. I do know for a fact though that he was hazed as part of his initiation into the Shrine.

The stuff I've heard about the Shrine, directly and indirectly, is enough to make me not pursue it, even if I were ever to become a Mason in the first place (which I'm incidentally not interested in, though I support its right to exist).

[nittanyalum]

Hey! Did you catch TAR Sunday night? I bet we could have moved that cheese! :D
I missed most of the premiere, unfortunately, I need to go find it online, I am dying to know about the cheese thing now -- whatever it was though, I KNOW we woulda killed it! ;) :cool: