Question to the Female APO's

[Diva06Sweet]

I have a question that i am just dying to ask...
I am not trying to be funny or any disrespect but why do some of you all *not all just some* wander over to the 25/52 message board and ask the same question time and time again?
"How does GSS feel about APO females?"

To be honest how i or any other memeber of GSS feels about APO females is not important. As long as members of GSS respect APO females as fellow greeks there is no more to be said or done.

I am a tinny bit irritated *sorry i cant spell* with answering the same question every few months.

This is not a slam or me trying to be cute or funny am i just wondering why some *some not all just some* of you all insist on asking this question.

*sigh*

[Diva06Sweet]

wow 27 views and no replies.. yall scurred?

[wvapogirl]

Diva~

Do you mean the GSS message board? Could you point out where these posts are popping up, cause I can't seem to find them...

~Nicole

[Virtuous Woman]

I have no idea what response you are looking for. It makes more sense for you to pose this question to people who have asked you that. I personally don't care what any GSS thinks of me or any of my brothers (as long as there is respect) so I really cannot respond to your question.

If you are sick of answering the question, then don't. People will get the hint.

[Diva06Sweet]

the 25/52 board is where i am talking about...

VW i have tried that they still come back.. so i thought i would ask over here.. :)

[wvapogirl]

Ok, I am a bit lost now...

Where is the 25/52 board?

[Diva06Sweet]

http://forums.delphiforums.com/APQGSS/start
there is the link to the 25/52 message board

[Attractive#7]

Personally I feel as though it is all about the service. Who cares what GSS thinks about us, and who cares what we think about them. As long as we all act like LADIES and respect ourselves and the other ladies then it should not be a problem. I think this issue is only a problem when people make it a problem. (Not saying that you made it a problem), I'm just saying if we all focused on our purposes and our mission's then we shouldn't be worried about the potential drama.

[gamma_girl52]

Originally posted by Attractive#7
Personally I feel as though it is all about the service. Who cares what GSS thinks about us, and who cares what we think about them. As long as we all act like LADIES and respect ourselves and the other ladies then it should not be a problem. I think this issue is only a problem when people make it a problem. (Not saying that you made it a problem), I'm just saying if we all focused on our purposes and our mission's then we shouldn't be worried about the potential drama.

Thank you!! There's the answer.
Welcome to the fam, BTW. I see you are a new member and fellow SEVEN :D

[Attractive#7]

Thank You Thank You...You know us 7's have to hold it down. ;)

[bro_strawter]

Originally posted by Attractive#7
Personally I feel as though it is all about the service. Who cares what GSS thinks about us, and who cares what we think about them. As long as we all act like LADIES and respect ourselves and the other ladies then it should not be a problem. I think this issue is only a problem when people make it a problem. (Not saying that you made it a problem), I'm just saying if we all focused on our purposes and our mission's then we shouldn't be worried about the potential drama.

and good evening!:)

[Diva06Sweet]

Originally posted by Attractive#7
Personally I feel as though it is all about the service. Who cares what GSS thinks about us, and who cares what we think about them. As long as we all act like LADIES and respect ourselves and the other ladies then it should not be a problem. I think this issue is only a problem when people make it a problem. (Not saying that you made it a problem), I'm just saying if we all focused on our purposes and our mission's then we shouldn't be worried about the potential drama.

well said i agree but .. well never mind..

[Attractive#7]

Originally posted by Diva06Sweet


well said i agree but .. well never mind..


but what?

[#18 S.O.T. APO]

I think the problem in some cases is also some type of competition for the bruhs attention....depending on where you are from bruhs give more attention to GSS then they do to their Bruhs, so we can't but feel as though sometimes we are being treated like the jealous girlfriends, by the looks and attitudes that we get from GSS... and ladies you know how that can be at times. But honestly, I am not the one to judge you by the three letters that are across your chest. I do not think they make or break you. But if you look at me smug because I am an APO female trust then I will have to treat you the same. I am the type that feeds off what you give me. If you give me attitude just because of assumptions and my letters, then in turn you will too get judged based off of me assuming that you already dont like me because of our letters.
This isnt a personal response, its just based off of experiences with some of your sorors. And that may be the case for others and that may be why so many people ask what is the problem between GSS and APO females. Its because other people have those similar experiences.

[sister_hood02]

That was well stated. But, do female APO's/APQ's (sorry i don't know which you guys perfer, no disrespect) throw Gamma Sigs attitude because ya'll feel like the jealous girlfriend? I've been around some of the organizations that come along with the Bruhs, such as Jewels and we spoke and they kept walking. I know that you guys are seperate entities, but is it really like that?

Desire_2k3 #3

[Virtuous Woman]

This whole discussion is dumb. I will NEVER be jealous over who has MY brother's affection and/or attention because at the end of the day, like it or not, he's still MY brother. Like one of my brother's said, you will be respected if you give it. This is dumb and it's not worth all the time that's going into this discussion. Let's get back to LFS and other worthwhile things.

[gamma_girl52]

Originally posted by Virtuous Woman
This whole discussion is dumb. I will NEVER be jealous over who has MY brother's affection and/or attention because at the end of the day, like it or not, he's still MY brother. Like one of my brother's said, you will be respected if you give it. This is dumb and it's not worth all the time that's going into this discussion. Let's get back to LFS and other worthwhile things.

I will have to respectfully disagree. I don't think this isn't a worthwhile discussion, if it's discussed with some intelligence. But since this really isn't my forum I'll keep it short out of respect.

I think it should be noted that this "attitude" between female brothers and my sorors are coming from both sides, simply because of what we hear from others. I don't have a problem with females in the fraternity...it's not my place to have a problem to start with. I give respect to everyone and I expect it back. I recognize that some brothers view me as their soror and a load of others don't...because they either don't choose to or don't even know what the GSS/APO relationship is about to show that kind of love. Either way it's all good. Simply put, my first priority is Gamma Sigma Sigma. It's not like we can't co-exist. We just need to stop formulating our attitudes towards each other based on heresay. That's the first thing I hear from BOTH parties..."Well I heard this or that about you." I have nothing to form a nasty attitude about. I think that's the problem when in reality it is not that big of an issue.

[#18 S.O.T. APO]

Honestly thats what I was saying...its not that I, personally don't give respect to all no matter what you are...but there are some who have experienced what I was talking about...But honestly, I hate when people use one experience as a generalization as to how it will always be. I say my advice would be treat each encounter separate from others, some people are just the way they are. So the question should've been, why does that paricular GSS soror not like me because I am an APO female, and really it may just be that some don't get along despite the association.

[sweete81]

Now this question is for Gammagirl52 and any other GGS member:

Normally when this argument comes up, you always here about GGS female and APO female interaction in regards to the whole APO males ordeal why they may see GGS as sorors but APO females as non bruhs. However, one party you never hear from is GGS males. What are their views (GGS is co-ed right) and do they receive flack from my bruhs or your sorors for pledging a sorority? Just wondering...

9-ZP-03 AI
News @ 9

A-Phi-Que till the day I'm through
Zeta Phi till the day I die

[sweete81]

I meant GSS, I don't know what I was thinking, I APOlogize!!

9-ZP-03 AI
News @ 9


A Phi Que till the day I'm through...
Zeta Phi till the day I die!!!

[gamma_girl52]

Let me try to answer that.

First off, in technical terms Gamma Sig is co-ed but no where on the same scale as APO. Out of the 60 or so chapters we have I can count on one hand those who have males in the membership, and even then it's less than 5 in that chapter. For the most part, they would react the same an APO female would in my opinion....they probably wouldn't be very comfortable with the brother/sister thing. But again, that's just a speculation that I have. This is why you don't hear anything from them...the number is very very small.

I have a question for you guys though. What are your thoughts on having Gamma Sig on your campus knowing your chapter is co-ed? I ask because I would really like to see GSS reactivate on HU's campus (the GSS chapter there was Alpha Eta). Also I think that TSU still has an RC (Reactivating Colony) of GSS operating on campus (bro_strawter can correct me if that's wrong). What do you guys think.

[bro_strawter]

You're correct. We had a meet & greet with the sorors a few weeks ago. It was off the hook!! Both male and females in our chapter are cool with the Gamma Sigs. No beefs. It's quite simple, the bruhs (men) recognize GSS as sorors, and female members of the frat as brothers. GSS and the female APO's at TSU are well aware of the fact that they have no relationship with each other other than service, being African-American, and attending TSU. It's good to see us all co-existing though.

This is the twist that a gets a few outside bruhs and sorors heated with us. We, the male members @ TSU are well aware of our relationship with GSS. We love them unconditionally they are OUR sorors...can't speak for other chapters.. However, no female (APO or GSS wise) come before the women in our chapter.....NONE!

[sweete81]

Thank you for the clarification both of you!!! In response to your question, personally I will not have a problem with your sorority being reactivated on Howard's campus because Howard needs a change of pace especially when it comes to our Greek Life!!! Honestly, I do not know anything about GSS outside of its relationship to APhiQ back in the day, but any organization whether it be Greek or not that is dedicated to service has to be an upstanding organization. The one obstacle you may encounter: as anyone familiar with Black Greek life may know, Howard is the Alpha Chapter for 3 out of 4 Black Greek Sororities and unless y'all really publicize your organization, then you may encounter membership problems. Now as far as individual interactions with members of GSS go I believe that no problems will occur as long as people respect others then there should be no problems. Now with that being said, my bruhs (female or male) should respect members of GSS and that in the past some campuses had APO/GSS ties and we cannot assume that they will come and try to replace APO female bruhs (that effort would be in vain anyways). In the same token members both undergrad and alumni members of both organizations need to respect that both organizations are co-ed and they can not enforce the whole "bruh/soror" & "APO/GSS" relationship because we are not constitutionally bound to the other. In closing, if people know their role, then there will not be any trouble. With any case, when people step outside of their role then that is when problems occur.

NEWS @ 9
9-ZP-03 A
AI

A-Phi-Que till the day I'm through
Zeta Phi till the day I die

P.S. To clear up the whole APO/APHIQ issue I spoke to some alums of Zeta Phi (40 and 50 year members of Alpha Phi Omega). They said that APhiQ does not refer to modern day "Viking" or any other all male chapter. A PHI Q or A Phi O was the name given to Historically Black chapters back in the sixties to not only distinguish themselves (hence Howard being the Black Beta, so on so forth), but because they felt that the Greek letters were not APO but A PHI Q and thusly referred to the organization as such. Now during the time these chapters as well as most chapters of APO were all male. However, the correlation between all male chapters and A Phi Q is incorrect in the sense that only males can be A Phi Q. Anyone "made" or crossed at an HBCU are considered A Phi Q. I hope this sheds any light to those who are unsure of what A Phi Q is.

[Attractive#7]

Question...if person A says that a flag is white and person B sees the same flag and says the color is ivory...what color is the flag?
I think this conversation is getting very interesting...

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by Attractive#7
Question...if person A says that a flag is white and person B sees the same flag and says the color is ivory...what color is the flag?
I think this conversation is getting very interesting...

CREAM!

[#18 S.O.T. APO]

I don't see why not but honestly, I don't see what for, and that may be because I know nothing about GSS. But, I seriously think that it may be hard for another organization such as this to come back at Howard at this point. I think that the one thing that helped us bring back A Phi Que was the fact that it was truly unique...and there are some GDI's and those who affliated with other organizations that still that GSS plaque in the Punch-Out (the take out place at HU) and say that it would be a joke. I think that at HU the main thing for survival is the respect of the campus. I say try it out and see what type of response you get. But trust its not going to be easy. What you need to try to do is to try to get those on our campus who already respected by the students...I say it doesn't hurt to try.

[gamma_girl52]

I would like to see this plaque for GSS...I will have to ask one of my sorors that is currently attending Howard for Medical School if she can stop over to see it.

For me I wouldn't want to "try it out" unless I knew it was going to be successful...the comments about GSS being a joke...well I hear that a lot from people who don't know who we're about. GSS is particularly hard to establish at HBCU's, because it takes a very strong group of ladies to establish themselves there and have to be able to withstand criticism (aka "hating) from others, GDI and Greek alike. Every GSS colony goes through that though. It's because we're new and not a lot of people are familiar with GSS.

Well, we shall see. So far I haven't heard a word about GSS being revived at HU. We also had a chapter at American University as well plus an alumnae chapter once upon a time.

[Bro. Jones]

Originally posted by Attractive#7
Question...if person A says that a flag is white and person B sees the same flag and says the color is ivory...what color is the flag?
I think this conversation is getting very interesting...

...i see where you are getting with this question... good point. VERY god point.

i think bro. strawter put it best. we LOVE our sorors as sorors. i am one of the most excited ones to know that GSS has finally returned to TSU. we (males) LOVE our brothers (females) in APO. no matter what the gender is in APO, you will ALWAYS get lots of love from me.

...but never will any woman, of any organization, of any chapter, will come before the women of Psi Phi at TSU. it only seems right to love those who are closest the most... which would be our chapter women.

[Attractive#7]

OMG Bro. Jones has returned!!! (lol) Like I've been here long myself. Anyway, I'm glad you felt where I was coming from.

Originally posted by #18 S.O.T. APO
I don't see why not but honestly, I don't see what for, and that may be because I know nothing about GSS.

I feel you #18, but I don't...See when I found out GSS came back to TSU, my first thought was why??? Why join GSS when you can be in APO...but then I thought about it. They probably thought the same thing about us...why join a service frat as a woman when you can be in a sorority. The bottom line is even though we are both about service, we are two seperate organizations. They have the right to be here just like we do. Gamma Sigma Sigma wants to reactivate their chapters just like we do. And in all things we should support each other. Gamma Girl, I say good luck and go for it as far as looking to come back at Howard.

[#18 S.O.T. APO]

I see what you are saying #7,indeed that is true. Hey whoever is over the extension of GSS Colonies I say good luck. I say if GSS comes back fight for the respect, sho' nuff we had to and it was worth it wasn't it News @ Nine.

[sweete81]

YA DAMN SKIPPY!!!

[aquafina03]

Why is this always such a big topic? I am at Tennessee State also and a female brother of APO. Our bruhs seemed to be so excited about GGS being back. It seemed to me that it was kinda kept on the hush hush (like they didnt want us females to know).To be honest I could care less who comes back as long as they are doing service and not getting stuff started. It would be nice to meet some of the GGS members but........it seems as if they are only associated with the male members of APO and not the females.:confused:

[aquafina03]

This goes to bro_strawter. U said we (females) are so cool with the GSS's. We dont even know who they are. We have never met them. I just had to put that out there!;)

[Senusret I]

Well, where you from, Brother?! Welcome to GC!

Originally posted by Lafayette1925
This not even an issue where i'm from. Why is this even an issue some places? :rolleyes: :confused:

[Senusret I]

aquafina, hey sands....

That's all I've been saying. I don't have ANY problem with GSS being associated with APO, but I don't see why it has to be a gender issue. Heck, if I see a male Gamma Sig, I'ma give him a hug, just like a female Gamma Sig! (Or at least a firm handshake, ;)) The organizations have historical ties that transcend tab A and slot B, if you know what I mean.


Originally posted by aquafina03
........it seems as if they are only associated with the male members of APO and not the females.:confused:

[aquafina03]

Hey dardener, I understand that. I know how yall are tied together. I have no problem with it. I guess u would have to be on our campus to understand what Im talking bout.

[#18 S.O.T. APO]

I see how this could indeed be a problem at mostl HBCU's. Zeta Phi hasn't of course experience this either because we don't have a GSS colony on our campus. (by the way the plaque i was referring to is, that in the 80's student activities painted on boards all the sheilds of the organizations that were repesented at the time, GSS was one of them, and they decorate the take-out place). So anyway, I could see how because for example those organizations who are part of the pan-hellenic council aren't co-ed, so there are sororities and bruhs that are "teamed up" and those who are members are considered to be sorors and frat. At some schools the same thing is assumed but official and it doesn't work as smoothly when the organizations are co-ed and the females of GSS sometimes can not look at a female APO to be their bruh and vice versa.

[sweete81]

First, I am glad to see that we are all being respectful of each others opinion! Now, I will have to agree with Rashid on this, who really gives a rat's tail who is in what organization? I don't believe that it has ever been a problem, but why does it have to be a gender issue?!?! I was always taught, "whatever is good for the goose is good for the gander as well" pun intended. I mean either someone who is GSS will call all APO male and female bruhs or none of APO brothers "bruhs" and vice versa, either APO will call GSS male and female "soror" or none of them soror. But don't do it for one sex and not the other. That is not only highly offensive to the party neglected because by only acknowledging a bruh/soror you basically discredit their letters and what they worked so hard for, but you the party that allowed to happen make yourself look unbrotherly/sisterly by letting someone disrespect your bruh/soror in such a fashion.

One thing that I do notice, a great deal of this "conflict" stems from alumni. Some alumni still do not know that APO and GSS are coed and they may ask you what happened to the other organization. That is understandable and it is not offensive. Now you do have ignorant alumni (Zeta Phi has them along with TSU and JSCU) that basically say to hell with 1976, women don't belong and all that other bs despite the fact that most pledged post-1976 in addition to the fact that they don't do anything but cause headaches and trouble in their home chapters. Those are the ones mainly forcing the whole 25/52 love thing down those who are remaining in the chapters without realizing or caring that it DOES exclude female bruhs. Now we should respect the historical ties between both organizations but in the same regard it is a new day for both organizations. Some alumni need to realize that WE ARE CO-ED whether you like it or not and if you don't then either denounce your letters or you should not have joined in the first place.

In closing, you only allow people to do what you let them. If something like this is happening on your campus, you need to first check the chick who is blatanly disrespecting you and your role as a member and brother of ALPHA PHI OMEGA. Secondly, you need to pull up your bruhs like, "Yo that is foul that you would let someone disrespect your female bruhs like so." People need to put their foot down on this issue so that it does not come up time and time again or every time an HBCU gets rechartered. Either do it for everyone or do it for noone!!! And it is really as simple as that!!!

NEWS AT NINE
9-ZP-03 AI

A Phi Que till the day I'm through...
Zeta Phi till the day I die!!!

[Senusret I]

Only a Number Nine could have said it so well. ;)

[gamma_girl52]

Well I haven't been able to post all weekend, I was just reviewing the posts since my last one. What a great conversation it has been so far. I feel that this is one way to "bridge the gap" between our two organizations. We do need to learn about one another.

I do agree that it's the individual's choice in this...clearly there are members of BOTH orgs that recognize each other as brother/sister. There are some of my sisters who would never look at a female APO as a bruh, PERIOD. I have the same attitude as dardenr. I will at least speak to you if not hug or shake your hand (depending on your comfort level). And also, even though we're discussing it this issue is not a burning topic at Conventions :D . Somebody made a comment about this not being an issue in their area. This is because as of late, GSS/APO as bruh and soror is very common down South and not so much everywhere else. This is especially where GSS has been expanding in the last two years or so.

As far as TSU...they have been very quiet. I'm usually a soror "in the know" and I haven't heard a peep from these ladies. I think in Epsilon Psi's case (the R.C. of GSS), I personally feel it would be better if they operated as a separate sorority AWAY from Psi Phi...until some time passes and everybody is comfortable. Based on the comments from some of the Psi Phi ladies, it's important for them to feel comfortable with the sisters too. I would think it would produce a lot less drama.

In short it's all about where you feel comfortable and what you feel comfortable doing. We're both separate orgs with similar interest in mind...so I think we shoud at least try to work together.

[bro_strawter]

Originally posted by aquafina03
This goes to bro_strawter. U said we (females) are so cool with the GSS's. We dont even know who they are. We have never met them. I just had to put that out there!;)

Let me clarify myself. The female brothers at TSU who have met the sorors are cool with them. You know most of them on personal levels, you just don't know they are Gamma Sig's.

[#18 S.O.T. APO]

Well said News @ Nine....That's my nine, but nine times two is what? Ok
I feel as though if this is a problem for you as far as the sorors of GSS is concerned demand respect...I've seen many a people say" dang soror, no love." It ain't that difficult, personally i don't care if you don't speak at all, just don't be on my yard being disrespectful.
I think the hardest problem for a lot of female APO bruhs is not the respect of GSS sorors, but the lack of respect from fellow bruhs. Nuff Said.

[sweete81]

Rashid...

Holla at a bruh when you see me on the street!!! I had to get a new cell phone in early April and I lost everybody's number including yours!!!

9-ZP-03
AI

[aquafina03]

Bro. Strawter,

Thats good others have met them. I probably never will. Maybe they will be at the picnic! U say I know them on personal levels?! Thats odd. Since u know them so good tell them BBSA said we wish them well. lol:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[sweete81]

Ditto with #18 (although 9 * 2= 18, 1+8=9!!!)

That is the larger issue at hand!!! To me that is just like someone slapping up my real brother!!! No matter how I may feel or what I say about him, I wish a n!99@ would say or do something to him and I am going to put a clappin to someone. You know why, cause he is all I have in this world!!! And that is how bruhs should treat each other cause you did not cross those sands by yourself!!! I am a neo as of APRIL 26, 2003 yet I feel like this issue has been a thorn in both orgs since I began the quest to uphold the torch and trefoil!!! Trying to divide bruhs like a foster home, sheesh (double crossings, different calls, can't trust some of the bruhs {shinning and grinning in my face and whispering something else in my male bruh's ear} etc...I have never heard of any other co-ed organizations, Greek or not doing such!!!) Luckily, I have not experienced the whole disrespect issue and hopefully I never will! HOWEVER, I have been told that I or 17 of the other females in my chapter can't even wear my letters at other HBCU's because of male bruhs may not acknowledge me. That is just plum dumb. Members of both organizations need to shape up and remember that you don't pledge APO or GSS to be out wearing 'naila or to fraternize with bruhs/sorors or to step, chant or be out on the yard/quad nor should students at your respective college/university only associate your organization with such. Those are perks upon receiving a membership into your respective organization. You join/pledge because you are about the cardinal principles of Leadership, Friendship and Service for APO and Service, Friendship and Equality for GSS (courtesy of GSS national website). That is what people should know us (APO and GSS) for.

In closing, this is becoming a cancer and I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. And by putting a band-aid on the issue year after year only makes it worse. People need to nip this in the bud once and for all!!! While we are arguing about who acknowledges who and whatnot, we could spend the same energy doing joint service projects with the other (thus showing unity but remaining separate entities). I am pretty sure that most organizations, (I know that APO does) have to already deal with being a minority in a predominately white organization, do we (black people) really need to divide ourselves because I have an innie and you may have an outie?!?! Give me a break!!!

News at NINE
9-ZP-03 AI

A Phi Que till the day I'm through...
Zeta Phi till the day I die!!!


P.S. And who is fooling who, men may have a problem with women in the frat but a. the women hold the chapter and the frat down (especially at ZETA PHI: paying dues, holding leadership positions (National V.P. is Maggie Katz), making sure that pledges know info (holla back lb's;)) and b. men nowdays are not really into pledging, in saying that some chapters of APO would still be inactive if it were not for women.

P.P.S. This is NOT intended to disrespect anyone from GSS but to make my bruhs think: I only know of two organization that is constitutionally bound to the other and that is Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. and Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc. (a BGLO) (Rashid, they made me take it there!!!) Think about it!!!

[Virtuous Woman]

I only know of two organization that is constitutionally bound to the other and that is Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. and Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc. (a BGLO) Think about it!!!

AMEN!

[gamma_girl52]

I completely agree with you. We are not bound together in a formal way...but we can work together in the name of service, especially in "our" communities where it is most needed. Our National Convention is in July. A joint workshop with some of APO's officers will be occuring so hopefully, this is a big step forward in our organizations learning more about one another, and working together.

Just to clarify. I only started this conversation to get some varied opinions from you guys, hopefully I did not offend anyone. Like it or not, it's an issue that needs to be addressed. Yes it is a small issue when you look at what else is going on in our organizations, but it still needs to be addressed. So, I am grateful and extend my thanks to all of you that have responded so far.

[aquafina03]

Originally posted by Virtuous Woman
AMEN!

Right on Sista! I agree with you about the woman holding the chapter down. Aint That the Truth!!!

[Bro. Jones]

...well... :rolleyes:

true, without the women, APO would not be where it is today. ratios alone depict that in our chapter, without the women, we would fail. since the rechartering of Psi Phi, there has ALWAYS been more women than men:

33 Resurrected: 21 women, 12 men
12 Runaways: 7 women, 5 men
20 Excuses: 8 women, 12 men
16 Conspiracy Theories: 11 women, 5 men
15 Ways to RunTelDat: 10 women, 5 men
Total: 57 women, 39 men (59.37% women)

Most, if not all, of the the ladies that have come through were hard working and very productive for the fraternity chapterwise and nationally. But, let's not count out the men, because without 3 men in particular, there wouldn't even be a chapter at TSU. We need each other... plain and simple. Heck, if you look in the pledge manual on page 9, it states "the late 1960's and early 1970's were years of great turmoil on college campuses. The "anti-establishment" movement resulted in a drop in membership for many campus organizations especially fraternities and sororities; Alpha Phi Omega was affected as well. In fact, many chapters were declared inactive. Admitting women as members was seen by many as the solution to declining membership." Without women in the frat, who is to say that APO would even exist today nationally?

Now, about these men that just wish to exclude women as part of the fraternity, they are just ignorant. Ladies, please do not view this as the thoughts of ALL men in the fraternity. In every apple tree, there will be a few bad apples. There is nothing that can be done about it, but they wish to continue in their "old ways". But, I guess it's like the saying goes, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks." I hope that none of you women have to run across any of these individuals while as members of OUR beloved organization. As long as you have a membership card, you are alright in my eyes ;)

Open statement to ALL... male and female
Please, respect where the fraternity once was... (all male)
Please, respect where the fraternity will be... (co-ed)

With the issue with APO/GSS... we must realize that at one time in history, there were no women allowed into the fraternity. If you know your history, women were only "snuck" into the frat through certain chapters until that faithful National Convention in 1976. This is why we basically have GSS. Men would do service with APO, and women would do service with GSS. That's just the way it was then. Times have changed, but it does not mean that the two organizations have to part their separate ways (though the two were NEVER constitutionally bound). I have ran across a few women who think that the men of APO should totally disregard GSS because they have women in APO, and should have to sociallize with any other women outside of the organization. Now, how would this make you feel if you were in GSS, and your founding was somewhat based off of APO, but some of the female members want to totally disregard you?

GSS does service, APO does service...
GSS is co-ed, APO is co-ed...
either get with it or get left behind.

in leadership, friendship, service, and equality

[bro_strawter]

(my bad, I meant to quote your post about BBSA)


lol! I'll be sure to send the regards.:) But naw, all jokes aside, if you don't know any of them I KNOW you know the ace;) I'm hopefully the Gamma Sigs and APO's at TSU can set the standard of co-existing with each other, being that we are co-ed and all. That would be a great thing, and it would also shut alot of people up!

[bro_strawter]

Originally posted by Bro. Jones
...well... :rolleyes:

true, without the women, APO would not be where it is today. ratios alone depict that in our chapter, without the women, we would fail. since the rechartering of Psi Phi, there has ALWAYS been more women than men:

33 Resurrected: 21 women, 12 men
12 Runaways: 7 women, 5 men
20 Excuses: 8 women, 12 men
16 Conspiracy Theories: 11 women, 5 men
15 Ways to RunTelDat: 10 women, 5 men
Total: 57 women, 39 men (59.37% women)

Most, if not all, of the the ladies that have come through were hard working and very productive for the fraternity chapterwise and nationally. But, let's not count out the men, because without 3 men in particular, there wouldn't even be a chapter at TSU. We need each other... plain and simple. Heck, if you look in the pledge manual on page 9, it states "the late 1960's and early 1970's were years of great turmoil on college campuses. The "anti-establishment" movement resulted in a drop in membership for many campus organizations especially fraternities and sororities; Alpha Phi Omega was affected as well. In fact, many chapters were declared inactive. Admitting women as members was seen by many as the solution to declining membership." Without women in the frat, who is to say that APO would even exist today nationally?

Now, about these men that just wish to exclude women as part of the fraternity, they are just ignorant. Ladies, please do not view this as the thoughts of ALL men in the fraternity. In every apple tree, there will be a few bad apples. There is nothing that can be done about it, but they wish to continue in their "old ways". But, I guess it's like the saying goes, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks." I hope that none of you women have to run across any of these individuals while as members of OUR beloved organization. As long as you have a membership card, you are alright in my eyes ;)

Open statement to ALL... male and female
Please, respect where the fraternity once was... (all male)
Please, respect where the fraternity will be... (co-ed)

With the issue with APO/GSS... we must realize that at one time in history, there were no women allowed into the fraternity. If you know your history, women were only "snuck" into the frat through certain chapters until that faithful National Convention in 1976. This is why we basically have GSS. Men would do service with APO, and women would do service with GSS. That's just the way it was then. Times have changed, but it does not mean that the two organizations have to part their separate ways (though the two were NEVER constitutionally bound). I have ran across a few women who think that the men of APO should totally disregard GSS because they have women in APO, and should have to sociallize with any other women outside of the organization. Now, how would this make you feel if you were in GSS, and your founding was somewhat based off of APO, but some of the female members want to totally disregard you?

GSS does service, APO does service...
GSS is co-ed, APO is co-ed...
either get with it or get left behind.

in leadership, friendship, service, and equality


Well (snap):cool:

[Bro. Jones]

Originally posted by bro_strawter
I'm hopefully the Gamma Sigs and APO's at TSU can set the standard of co-existing with each other, being that we are co-ed and all. That would be a great thing, and it would also shut alot of people up!

that was exactly what i was hoping. i was hoping that we at TSU could prove it is possible to co-exist. APO and GSS. For TSU to set the precedent for future HBCU co-ed chapters (having both male AND female... and not a huge majority of either gender), this would just be another notch in the belt. :D

[bro_strawter]

Originally posted by sweete81
Ditto with #18 (although 9 * 2= 18, 1+8=9!!!)

That is the larger issue at hand!!! To me that is just like someone slapping up my real brother!!! No matter how I may feel or what I say about him, I wish a n!99@ would say or do something to him and I am going to put a clappin to someone. You know why, cause he is all I have in this world!!! And that is how bruhs should treat each other cause you did not cross those sands by yourself!!! I am a neo as of APRIL 26, 2003 yet I feel like this issue has been a thorn in both orgs since I began the quest to uphold the torch and trefoil!!! Trying to divide bruhs like a foster home, sheesh (double crossings, different calls, can't trust some of the bruhs {shinning and grinning in my face and whispering something else in my male bruh's ear} etc...I have never heard of any other co-ed organizations, Greek or not doing such!!!)

You ever heard of KK Psi and Tau Beta Sigma. I'm sure you have, they have chapters at Howard.

In addition, I wouldn't necessarily say females are holding anything down. If anything, they are doing what they suppose to be doing anyway....it's called "your role a brother." If it's way more females in the chapter (ZPhi's case) then of course females would naturally be in power (which I don't have a problem with).

There's so much more I could say, but do to time constraints I won't. I'll just say this, you're a neo. You have ALOT to learn. You will though;)

[Big Papa 29]

Originally posted by Bro. Jones
...well... :rolleyes:

true, without the women, APO would not be where it is today. ratios alone depict that in our chapter, without the women, we would fail. since the rechartering of Psi Phi, there has ALWAYS been more women than men:

33 Resurrected: 21 women, 12 men
12 Runaways: 7 women, 5 men
20 Excuses: 8 women, 12 men
16 Conspiracy Theories: 11 women, 5 men
15 Ways to RunTelDat: 10 women, 5 men
Total: 57 women, 39 men (59.37% women)

Most, if not all, of the the ladies that have come through were hard working and very productive for the fraternity chapterwise and nationally. But, let's not count out the men, because without 3 men in particular, there wouldn't even be a chapter at TSU. We need each other... plain and simple. Heck, if you look in the pledge manual on page 9, it states "the late 1960's and early 1970's were years of great turmoil on college campuses. The "anti-establishment" movement resulted in a drop in membership for many campus organizations especially fraternities and sororities; Alpha Phi Omega was affected as well. In fact, many chapters were declared inactive. Admitting women as members was seen by many as the solution to declining membership." Without women in the frat, who is to say that APO would even exist today nationally?

Now, about these men that just wish to exclude women as part of the fraternity, they are just ignorant. Ladies, please do not view this as the thoughts of ALL men in the fraternity. In every apple tree, there will be a few bad apples. There is nothing that can be done about it, but they wish to continue in their "old ways". But, I guess it's like the saying goes, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks." I hope that none of you women have to run across any of these individuals while as members of OUR beloved organization. As long as you have a membership card, you are alright in my eyes ;)

Open statement to ALL... male and female
Please, respect where the fraternity once was... (all male)
Please, respect where the fraternity will be... (co-ed)

With the issue with APO/GSS... we must realize that at one time in history, there were no women allowed into the fraternity. If you know your history, women were only "snuck" into the frat through certain chapters until that faithful National Convention in 1976. This is why we basically have GSS. Men would do service with APO, and women would do service with GSS. That's just the way it was then. Times have changed, but it does not mean that the two organizations have to part their separate ways (though the two were NEVER constitutionally bound). I have ran across a few women who think that the men of APO should totally disregard GSS because they have women in APO, and should have to sociallize with any other women outside of the organization. Now, how would this make you feel if you were in GSS, and your founding was somewhat based off of APO, but some of the female members want to totally disregard you?

GSS does service, APO does service...
GSS is co-ed, APO is co-ed...
either get with it or get left behind.

in leadership, friendship, service, and equality


WOW WELL STATED BROTHER!!!:eek: :D :eek: :eek: :eek:

[#18 S.O.T. APO]

True, I have heard about TBS and KK Psi, and true TBS is co-ed at certain schools but it is no longer at our school...

As far as women holding it down...in the case of Z Phi , there would be no Z Phi had the women not did their job as a petitioner because so many times the ball could have been dropped...heck the entire beta line is ALL females for a reason.

But, We do not discount nor discredit the men of Z PHI, they are my LB's and I love them for life, and I know that they will not let ANYBODY disrespect any bruh of Z PHI whether they be a bruh or a soror.

True we are neos and that is why this is the season of venting and learning, because now we can experience and vent all the things that we couldn't say as a petitioning group... but honestly, i say experience is the best teacher. We are talking about things that may not be the case everywhere, that is why during the fall I am planning visiting many chapters including Psi Phi, to get that experience.

So holla at me, cause I am always down for Road Trips with my LB's and Neos.

[Bro. Jones]

Originally posted by #18 S.O.T. APO
that is why during the fall I am planning visiting many chapters including Psi Phi, to get that experience.

So holla at me, cause I am always down for Road Trips with my LB's and Neos.

you're always welcome. you will not be the first to make a road trip to see us... and hopefully, not the last.:cool: just let us know. im sure "attractive" will keep you informed.

[sweete81]

Bro. Jones
Now, about these men that just wish to exclude women as part of the fraternity, they are just ignorant. Ladies, please do not view this as the thoughts of ALL men in the fraternity. In every apple tree, there will be a few bad apples. There is nothing that can be done about it, but they wish to continue in their "old ways". But, I guess it's like the saying goes, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks." I hope that none of you women have to run across any of these individuals while as members of OUR beloved organization. As long as you have a membership card, you are alright in my eyes

Open statement to ALL... male and female
Please, respect where the fraternity once was... (all male)
Please, respect where the fraternity will be... (co-ed)

Thank you so much for your perspective!!! I agreed with everything that you stated. And I hope that I didn't come off as a male basher because the men hold it down in our chapter too!!! (Personally, I think that it is a perk having a co-ed frat! (By the way, you have a double bruh at Howard! Our tail #24 A.P.O. is also a brother of Phi Mu Alpha, Zeta Iota Chapter! (he is #3 Atlas of S.O.T.P.)

Gamma Girl 52
Just to clarify. I only started this conversation to get some varied opinions from you guys, hopefully I did not offend anyone. Like it or not, it's an issue that needs to be addressed. Yes it is a small issue when you look at what else is going on in our organizations, but it still needs to be addressed. So, I am grateful and extend my thanks to all of you that have responded so far.

I was not offended. Actually, I am glad that you and not a bruh of APO brought up the "issue." It was interesting to hear a response from a different party and you not only challenged me to think about my views on the issue but also encouraged me to learn about GSS outside of their ties to Zeta Phi.

One of the things that I would like to see is an APO convention either fall or spring for African Americans in which we can network and deal with issues that your chapter or individuals may have with the frat, campus, or anything else!! IF you are interested, holla back!!

News at Nine
9-ZP-03 AI
24 Survivors of the APOcalypse

A Phi Que till the day I'm through...
Zeta Phi till the day I die!!!

Gamma Girl 52, If the conference does happen, It would be nice to have a representative from your organization such as yourself present to educate us all about GSS!!

[gamma_girl52]

Hey I'm there if I'm asked to be! It sounds like a wonderful idea.

[Attractive#7]

Originally posted by gamma_girl52
n short it's all about where you feel comfortable and what you feel comfortable doing. We're both separate orgs with similar interest in mind...so I think we shoud at least try to work together.

Well said...alright for a #7!!!

[gamma_girl52]

Originally posted by Attractive#7
Well said...alright for a #7!!!

'Preciate that!!
Sometimes the right answer is the simplest one!

[Attractive#7]

Originally posted by Bro. Jones

just let us know. im sure "attractive" will keep you informed.

you know i will!!! jazz you can get my number from kam...she has my cell. just hit me up and let me know what's up and i can make some arrangments...also tell brando's dance grooves *LOL* to hit me up cuz i miss him.

[#18 S.O.T. APO]

No doubt! Just let me know when TSU's homecoming is and we will be in the place to be, even if we all have to pilein my Jeep.

[Diva06Sweet]

Originally posted by Virtuous Woman
This whole discussion is dumb. I will NEVER be jealous over who has MY brother's affection and/or attention because at the end of the day, like it or not, he's still MY brother. Like one of my brother's said, you will be respected if you give it. This is dumb and it's not worth all the time that's going into this discussion. Let's get back to LFS and other worthwhile things.

No its not dumb... we *gamma sigs* were getting questions from APO WOMEN.... i didn just pull this out of my butt.....
so some of yall women have some issue with how GSS thinks of yall..... trust me i dont care enough to just make it up.....

[bro_strawter]

Originally posted by Diva06Sweet


No its not dumb... we *gamma sigs* were getting questions from APO WOMEN.... i didn just pull this out of my butt.....
so some of yall women have some issue with how GSS thinks of yall..... trust me i dont care enough to just make it up.....


No offense, but this issue is like so null and void. We've moved on. Join the club.:)

[Diva06Sweet]

i thought i was free to respond to a post directed at the thread i started.....
but fine no biggie.... i wont bother yall no more...

[#18 S.O.T. APO]

I don't think my bruh was saying that you didnt have a right to post that... its just that after the many of pages that has been typed in resonse to your original question why would you go backwards so far and respond to the one reply that didnt answer your question. The topic is now so dead because i think that you have long since received your answer.

[Senusret I]

LMAO @ your alias, if it's from what I think its from.

[#18 S.O.T. APO]

LOL!! It's actually the greek letter that correlates with my number. But It has a double meaning now that you mentioned it.LOL!!!