This one is indicitive of Huntsville Texas

[carol c]

This article is why there are no rape convictions on record in Walker County and there are flagrant hazing incidents that occur at the SHSU campus-they have been doing stupid things to students for years and thinking it was just dandy! What an old fool! As you can see-she remained unmarried all of those years, too. I wonder why!

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October 12, 2000
Item guest column

Recent stories have appeared in The Huntsville Item concerning a female student's hazing at Sam Houston State University in 2000.

I graduated from high school in 1932. When I was a freshman at Sam Houston State Teachers College, I was initiated into the Women's Athletic Club. We watched as upperclasswomen cracked eggs into a dish pan. They beat the eggs thoroughly, then poured into it a bottle of Mercurochrome (we called it "monkey blood" then, and a bottle was in every medicine cabinet). Later, I realized that this was probably a whole undiluted bottle of red food coloring in a "monkey blood" bottle.

As we lined up and passed by the table, a sophomore took a wide paintbrush and swiped our faces, foreheads, cheeks and chins with this mixture. Since it was September in Huntsville, the dry hot weather hardened the mixture at once.

Stripped down to panties and bras (we called 'em brassieres way back then) on our "all-fours," lined up in a "company front," we raced about 25 yards pushing a peanut with our noses (I won).

When I got home, my roommate began peeling the egg mask off my face. It came off easily and resulted in as nice a facial as any beauty parlor gives today.

The next year, as a sophomore, I was a member of the gleeful group to torture the freshmen.

First, we cut off their fingernail tips - straight across. One little blonde cutie burst into tears, but I felt no sympathy. I knew they'd grow back.

For the second part of the ceremony, we had lined up three Ping-Pong tables and strewn them with crumbled, dry soda crackers. Stripped to panties and bras, the freshmen were marched into the darkened gym. Sophomores who were big and strong stood alongside the tables. We told the freshmen, "This is sort of like running a gauntlet. The tables are loaded with dirt and gravel."

One at a time, we laid these girls across the end of the tables. Told them to stretch out and hold themselves very stiffly "so it wouldn't hurt so bad." Then we'd catch them by arms and feet and roll them over and over down the tables. Passing them along, we could have seven or more going down those tables at once. Some of them screamed, one or two cried, but most of them just laughed, especially when Miss Powell turned on the lights.

I considered these two initiations as good, clean fun.

I wonder why officials of SHSTC didn't disband the Athletic Club for Women! In the year 2000, they probably would.

My, my! How times have changed! Weren't we awful in the 1930s to haze those girls?


- Vernon Marie Schuder was born in Walker County 84 years ago and has lived in the same house in Riverside for 62 years.

[KarenC725]

What does this have to do with rape convictions? This is an honest question. Hazing, yes,it occurred in 1930 but I see no mention of rape.

[33girl]

If Huntsville is such a hideous place, why did you let your daughter attend school there to begin with? As concerned a mothre as you seem to be, why didn't you check things like that out before your daughter enrolled there?

[carol c]

We thought that because there was so much law enforcement in the area, that it would reflect on a safer enviornment than most-but it actually turned out to be quite the opposite. There appears to be more crime per capita with the campus, than ordinary ones in a regular town setting. The crimes seem to be more serious, too.

[DGMomofZeta]

There is nothing wrong with Huntsville. I grew up in Houston and half my high school class attended SHSU, I'm sure without incident. They have one of the best criminal justice departments around. I have tried not to become involved in the inflammatory posts regarding the "incident" but to malign a whole town over it seems to be going over the edge.

[carol c]

It's an attitude in the entire community that it reflects. This is the town, where they execute everyone in Texas. They have a very low value on human life, from what I read in their papers, with things like hazing, and lack of convictions on rape. They go hand in hand. The prison system is their main source of income, and then there is the school-which a lot of their relatives work at, also. A socialogist could explain it better than I can, but when you live with incarceration and death as your main income, it permeates every corner of the community-inevitably. A student who had raped three girls-also students at SHSU was found not guilty, even with very strong evidence. So, my feelings are that they will never get a conviction, after a rape kit and all was presented. I don't advise any parent of a girl to let her daughter attend school at SHSU, due to that kind of community attitude that will put them at tremendous risk. I intend to do more writings on this for the Houston papers and in Huntsville, very soon.

[Q-T Pie]

Carol C
You warn parents of females to to not let there ladies attend SHSU. I would just like to say that yes you have a point that parents should make sure their child is safe at any school, but to keep them away from SHSU or Huntsville is absurd. My step father is a sherrifs deputy for Harris County & works on death row. He constantly hears stories of death & things that are far, far more extreme than the incident at SHSU. Yes he was at first concerned, but after reading the articles & speaking with former students he is, in fact, more supportive than before. He is now happy that I will be rushing this spring & this very night helped me plan the big move to Sam.

Yes, what supposedly happened is tragic & I would not know how to respond if it happened to me. I do agree that you have the right to be hear & would never ask you to leave or anything of the sort, because as long as a person has opinions, they should be able to speak them freely. I do, however disagree with you still, and as many have my reasons.

[carol c]

Everyone isn't going to agree on a topic, that is too much to expect. All I ever wanted was to counter some very derogatory comments on the board, that were personally directed towards my daughter. I could always post my general comments about subjects under another name, but I don't feel that I should do that. As far as Huntsville, I have to go with my daughter's first impression, after coming on to the campus, and comments made to her by a guy who has been there a long time, statistics on convictions-and recent events, that have nothing to do directly with my daughter's case, but another one. There have been some very big cases in Huntsville, lately, that involved student criminals-that look really bad, when you take into account that they are criminal justice majors! And, yes, you would expect better-but sometimes the ones who want to break the laws, study it to make sure they know how to do it and get away with it. That information comes from someone who worked in the legal system for over 35 years and has seen and heard it all, since the Kennedy years-training new assistant U.S. Attornies (not me, I'm not that old, I just feel it, though). Sociologist say it too, that areas where there is a lot of law enforcement are some of the worst crime areas! That information comes from a book that is fairly new- "Violence in America-Lessons on Understanding the Aggression in Our Lives" by Arnold Goldstein. I don't come shooting from the hip, when I make comments about ANYTHING. I am very well educated and add to my store of knowledge and life experiences with doing extensive readings on the things that I post on. If I don't know, I ask or I research. I'm just passing on some of my research into this matter-Huntsville and it's attitudes towards crime. Haven't you heard the comment that some of the worst criminals are attornies? That's because they know the law and they know how best to break it and get away with it. And yes, Huntsville does have one of the best criminal justice schools in the country-and just like lawyers, some of the best taught criminals. It isn't there fault, it's just human nature, unfortunately!

[This message has been edited by carol c (edited October 26, 2000).]

[lifesaver]

Unfortunately people just arent aware of the resources available to them. Instead of parnets and students relying on a "feel" of the campus for it's safety record, the US congress passed a law in 1990 called the "Crime Awarness and Campus Security Act of 1990." it MANDATES that all institutions of higher learning that recieve federal funding of any sort (grants, direct aid, student loans, etc. publish specific crime information about the campus for the past three years. I have provided a link below:
http://campussafety.org/publicpolicy/cleryact/index.html

The site provides unlimited amounts of information on the act itself, with numerous links to other sites. Also, check you particular schools site to see their statistics.

The best part, for this particular situation, is there are specific provisions in an ammendment that provide special rights to victims of sexual assualt/abuse.

Hop on, do some research, maybe we can all feel a bit safer with knowledge like this mandated to be published out there. Finally, a federal law that has done some good!

[Q-T Pie]

lifesaver
Thanks for that information.

I'm not sure what it is like at other schools, but I do know that SHSU does post the criminal statistics. They're posted in a numer of brochures & even in the class selection booklet. I'm curious if this happens at other schools also?

Allison

[carol c]

The problem is the way that statistics can be manipulated. Did you ever take a statistics class? Read up on it-if you need the books that talk about the false numbers produced through loop holes in the law-write me back at my e-mail address and I will give you the names of them. ALso, alot of rapes take place off campus and are not "counted" but they certainly count to the victims. Call the psychological counciling center on the campus and ask how many girls in the last year have come in for counciling for a rape. That is a better way to get a correct number. ALso, crimes occuring off campus by students are also not counted. THey are pertinent to coming to an intelligent conclusion-so find that out, too.

[This message has been edited by carol c (edited October 27, 2000).]

[DeltAlum]

Carol C has a good point which is well taken regarding statistics. And, to make it worse, as is widely known, many sexual assaults and rapes are never reported by the victims.

I would take issue with anyone, however, who would paint an entire town, or university, or fraternal organization for that matter, with the same brush. I've never been to Huntsville, and will probably never visit there, but I suspect that if I ever do, I'll meet some good people -- and maybe some bad ones, too.

DeltAlum

[carol c]

There are good people there. I know a few from being in a business that brought me to the town, quite a bit, years ago. You know, only what you have lived,and what you can find out by studying a subject.

[Q-T Pie]

Carol C & DeltAlum
Thank you both for the information, I will definitely remember it!

[Deltmember]

Dear Carol C.,

I'm not sure who you are but I really wonder what the purpose of your post was. I wonder if your daughter is the CHI OMEGA sueing the chapter, national, and school. OR maybe your hoping to collect more stuff to write in your article's

Ok lets begin with the fact the you went to school there I believe you said 30's or 40's, and you were hazed. So if it is infact you are her mother would that not have been an indication to you.

Now for the rape comments Rape is widespread throughout all college campuses. I am from Fort Worth, a year or two ago there was a serial rapist commiting crimes for a year and a half this went on. Now remember to put TCU on your mom and daughter list of schools not to go to. Rape happens everywhere. You stated a case where I assume a man raped three students, and was not found guilty. Who are you to assume that because the majority or Huntsville's economy is from a prison that jurors selected from Huntsville would be numb to a conviction. I'm sure just as well as you are that there is a psychologist who says legal punishment is stronger in a Huntsville community. And for the statistics on rape, is the university responsible for a students apparent raping if it is off-campus. Of course not the university in no way forced the student to be where ever they were. Once again what proof do you have that the statistics were tampered with. Now what about the rape in CHI OMEGA situation. I really like how the writer of the article mentioned in the smallest detail that she had consenual sex with the apparent rapist after the fact.

I just would like to say your post made me mad at the wording and what you were trying to achieve. Are you even Greek?

Oh and for DeltALum I have seen your posts throughtout this entire forum and I am impressed with your knowledge on all aspects of greek. Email me and maybe I will have a chance to meet you at Karnea.

Deltmember

[amycat412]

Deltmember,

You are new, so... :)

The date on the original post and all of the posts in this thread (except yours and mine) are from 2000.

We do not want this subject rehashed. :)

Welcome to GC!
Amy