An example of the "we love hazing" attitude

[hoosier]

An SPE from Washington wrote this in the SPE forum. This attitude is best treated by expulsion, I think, although the poor guy is taking it hard.

To quote:

"HQ Destroying tradition and brotherhood
Last week our loving naitonal HQ flew in our RD, director of expansion, and our old RD (Czar, good guy but not today) along with a board of our local alumni. The took our charter away and put my house under a "membership review". This entailed a one on one interview with the national reps and our own alumni where we were told that they are eliminating our pledgeship and implementing the BMP WITHOUT our vote. They can do this because when they took our charter we no longer had a say. This was ALL a result from a parent of a pussy PLEDGE (thats freshman or sigma challenge now I guess) whom called the University about our late night workoffs. The result of these interviews was expulsion of 35 members and 2 freshman, leaving 21 guys in the house who pleased the alumni. WE WERE TOLD THAT OUR LOCAL TRADITIONS AND PARTS OF RITUALS WILL NO LONGER CONTINUE BECAUSE THEY CONTAIN SOME FORM OF HAZEING. We are the 2nd oldest and one of the last tradional chapters on the westcoast, and in this past week Ive seen everything Ive loved and thought my house stood for crumble. Traditions that have gone down here for 90 years and that have made me a much better person has stopped and will no longer continue. I am no longer allowed on our property, cannot wear letters, cannot identify myself as a sigep, and am definatly not supposed to take part in house functions anymore. ALL because my boys and I were keeping shit alive that we loved and respected and all went through ourselves. Apperently once we graduate we get alumni status, I suppose thats so nationals can hit me up for cash one im a wealthy alumn. whatever. They destroyed the strogest and most respected brotherhood at WSU. They cut my pledge class in half and only allowed half to stay. "Stick with your boys..no matter what" was beat into my head for an entire year. The times I went through during my pledgeship was some of the best of my life. The last day of my initiation was probally the greatest.They have taken a tried and proven method of developing strong brotherhood makeing truly better men and abolished it. I was tought to love the house with all I had. I can tell you how many tiles are on our chapter room floor, planks on the wall, steps in the house and the initiation number of every one of my seniors. This all stopped. I feel worst for the sophmores who signed at semester last spring and are due up for thier "I" week. They will never be a true member. They will not do the same thing that the 1647 before them had. They wont have the experience, the growth, and the understanding. I learned the true meanings of virtue, diligence, brotherly love and most importantly HFF. Where is any of that now? I had so much pride and faith in this brotherhood and I feel like Ive been stabbed in the back. Its a dark day for WA Alpaha, and if this is the way our fraternity is headed on a national scale then I am sorry for us all.
-ALI, 1650 (did I mention they eliminated #s, one of the most respected things in my house?)

[kdonline]

Originally posted by hoosier
This was ALL a result from a parent of a pussy PLEDGE (thats freshman or sigma challenge now I guess) whom called the University about our late night workoffs. The result of these interviews was expulsion of 35 members and 2 freshman, leaving 21 guys in the house who pleased the alumni. WE WERE TOLD THAT OUR LOCAL TRADITIONS AND PARTS OF RITUALS WILL NO LONGER CONTINUE BECAUSE THEY CONTAIN SOME FORM OF HAZEING.

I can't imagine that SPE's ritual would contain any hazing - their chapter has probably confused "tradition" with "ritual."

The guy may be taking it hard....but put yourself in his place - he is expelled.

It sounds like a harsh punishment, but it could've been worse - they could've yanked the entire chapter.

[LPIDelta]

I agree that he is probably mistaking ritual with traditions. I often tell the women in my sorority that the only tradition we truly have IS our ritual. I seriously doubt many of the things they had been doing had been going on for 90 years. I've seen it a million times-- if something happens more than once it becomes a "tradition". I understand his frustration--but he also needs to understand the litigious world we live in. Sad but true....

[KappaTarzan]

just because hazing is a "tradition" doesn't mean it should stick around :mad:

[Kevin]

It's hard to understand tradition only having 3 or so years worth of it... I'd imagine it's tough to break tradition. It's what makes your chapter unique. Why not CHANGE traditions instead of breaking them. People need to read their hazing policies and realize that the policy is applied to them.

[prophet]

Damn, you put so much work in your chapter so you can be proud of it, and of course by you putting so much work in your chapter it makes national look good, then they yank you because of some chump pledge that can't handle the pledging....man that sucks! I'm not going to try to guesse what type of pleding you guys do, but I take it you would not do anything which would lessen you as a man. If I am right about that, damn em'. Wish you luck, dog.

www.pkt.org
SFSU

[SigkapAlumWSU]

This SigEp chapter is at my school, and let me telly you, it is interesting to read a member's opinion. I didn't hear much about what happened last year, but I've read all about the events this year in the paper. I know what I've heard from friends on campus as well, but we all know that the Greek rumor mill can get way out of hand.
The information that I had (from the newspaper) was about date rape drugs, not hazing.
Here's a link to the article:
Rape Investigation Suspends House (http://www.dailyevergreen.com/nn4/news/index.asp?Story_ID=7067&StoryPage=1)
I had heard that there were sanctions pending, but I actually didn't know that getting their charter pulled was the result until I read it here today. It is very dissapointing to have a (former) member of a fraternity on my campus express his views on hazing like this. I don't know any Sig Eps personally, but from what I have heard, they have been very nice guys. It is distressing to hear that Hazing was a part of what tehy considered ritual. I think that so many houses have confused ritual and tratition so much that the line is far from blurred, it's gone. When older members tell the younger ones, that's they way it's done, they don't know to ask if that's true sometimes.
I hope that the members who are left will keep the national standards alive, and through that, they can be a stronger house.

*Remember, personal opinion, and only what I have personally heard, not representative of everyone at my school.*

[Tom Earp]

While this Young SPE has a deep love and feeling for his Fraternity and His Brothers, I find that his thinking is a bout 190 degrees off center!

If it has been proven without a doubt, then they are damn lucky that not only was the chapter not suspended but that they were not charged will criminal action!

This type of behavior is juvenill and dangerous!

It is time for some of these people to wake up and find they are living in a world of nod.

[Kevin]

I actually have a great appreciation for these chapters with a rich tradition. After going to national conferences you'd never believe the stuff that can come up in conversation:D

Honestly though I can say I'm damned glad my chapter doesn't have any traditions like this. I can see why exactly they'd be so hard to get rid of.. I mean you had to work so hard and then they expect the chapters to all do a complete 180? It's not really that easy. But it must be.

That paper on your wall doesn't belong to you.. It belongs to your founders. It's just on loan.

[madmax]

Originally posted by SigkapAlumWSU

I had heard that there were sanctions pending, but I actually didn't know that getting their charter pulled was the result until I read it here today.


I hope that the members who are left will keep the national standards alive, and through that, they can be a stronger house.



How can the remaining members keep up the national standards if they don't have a charter?

[SigkapAlumWSU]

Well, from what I read, their charter is pulled, and they are under "Mermbership Review" from nationals.. probably like a probationary period where NHQ sees if they improve.
This is from the WSU IFC Status website: "Loss of WSU and IFC recognition for 2 years and not allowed to house freshmen, beginning March 2002"

[Optimist Prime]

Originally posted by ktsnake
I actually have a great appreciation for these chapters with a rich tradition. After going to national conferences you'd never believe the stuff that can come up in conversation:D

Honestly though I can say I'm damned glad my chapter doesn't have any traditions like this. I can see why exactly they'd be so hard to get rid of.. I mean you had to work so hard and then they expect the chapters to all do a complete 180? It's not really that easy. But it must be.

That paper on your wall doesn't belong to you.. It belongs to your founders. It's just on loan.

I agree with most of this, but the last part. My name's on it. Its mine.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Optimist Prime


I agree with most of this, but the last part. My name's on it. Its mine.

Same here:D

But -- if your chapter loses it, even when you're gone it's not yours. A charter is a license that your HQ can revoke at any time. It is something that is earned every year, every day, every minute.. you get the picture.

You and I have an appreciation for how tough those things are to put on your wall for the first time.

[pinkyphimu]

wow....i guess i must be missing out on something because i never knew how many planks made up the floors in my house. i must be a really poor sister.

i know how quickly "traditions" can form. i graduated 5 years ago...and i laugh because current members say there are "traditions" about this that and the other thing that they will swear we have "always" done. umm, we didn't always do those things...lol. unfortunately, hazing is wrong and whether or not you always did it or just started last year, it is not ok. i am suprised tho that the group took away his membership, but will allow him to gain alum status when he graduates.

[lifesaver]

I once heard one of our international officers say, "When an undergrad says something is a tradition, it means it was done once, last year."


lol...so true

To the sig ep above... the rest of us have adapted. Lead, follow or get out of the way. You're either relevant or you're not. No one chapter is more important than the whole. Ya get sued, then the whole ship goes under for one chapters "traditions". :rolleyes: It may be important to you, but I am sure if you asked the rest of your brotherhood as a whole, they'd do the same thing your IHQ is doing. Hell, my org did it to our states "Alpha" chapter. it happens to the best of us.

[Tom Earp]

Basically, you act like the HDQ and school were at fault! Well get gone!

The basic reason that either would ask a Chapter for the Charter or have sanctioned pulled is because they screwed up! Is that about it!?

LXA has some of the first rules for many things, but we still have Chapters to are being pulled or kicked off Campuses! Why? Well, they screw up because of Tradition!

What in the hell good does that do> NONE!

If Ya Aint There, Then Ya Aint S$#T!

Short term memory is for the young! Gone, but forgotten! Get It?

I dont know about you but I get e-m daily talking about stupidity and death realated things that happen! Is This Good! NO!

You figure it Out!:confused:

[GeekyPenguin]

You know, I watched a SigEp from Wi-Theta read this post in the SigEp forum, and he was incredibly angry. I don't think hoosier needed to double post it, but he seems to enjoy putting negative articles in more than one forum. :rolleyes: I think SigEp, like every other org, has a few bad chapters. I should know, the one in Dubuque got closed last year. However, again like every other org, they are making their best efforts to change it through BMP. I'm really sick of seeing all these negative comments and articles reposted and reposted. That would have been fine staying in the SPE forum, where, if you go look, many of his brothers told him that what he was saying isn't right.

[Kevin]

I don't think it's a specific attack on Sig Ep by posting this. It's not about all of them -- but one of them. It shows that throughout the world of fraternities this is a viewpoint that actually is more commonplace than most of us in 'reformed' chapters would think. Since my chapter is brand new we don't have old traditions involving hazing that hold us back from developing to what we should be. These other chapters do.

It's a problem that effects us all.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by ktsnake
I don't think it's a specific attack on Sig Ep by posting this. It's not about all of them -- but one of them. It shows that throughout the world of fraternities this is a viewpoint that actually is more commonplace than most of us in 'reformed' chapters would think. Since my chapter is brand new we don't have old traditions involving hazing that hold us back from developing to what we should be. These other chapters do.

It's a problem that effects us all.

I would agree with you there...it's just that hoosier keeps copying stuff out of other forums and it is driving me crazy!

[LexiKD]

It boils down to membership selection. We have to select members that have the ability to see past the "traditional" ways and be ceative and make new fun/safe tarditions.
My chapter does not and hopefully has the knowhow to NEVER haze!

[hendrixski]

While I believe there are some people who could honestly afford to get hazed, it shouldn't become a tradition.

Then again the definition of hazing today is set so low there isn't a single house out there that couldn't get sued for hazing every day.

[xo_kathy]

Originally posted by pinkyphimu
wow....i guess i must be missing out on something because i never knew how many planks made up the floors in my house. i must be a really poor sister.

LOL, pinkyphimu!!! EXACTLY what I was thinking!