Clemency Denied for Williams [Archive]

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CrimsonTide4

09-13-2002, 03:36 PM

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A convicted killer who co-founded the Crips street gang and later became a Nobel Peace Prize nominee has been cleared for execution by a federal appeals court.

Stanley Williams could be executed by injection as early as next year unless the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reconsiders its decision, the U.S. Supreme Court intervenes or the governor grants him clemency.

Williams and a high school friend, Raymond Washington, created the notorious Crips gang in Los Angeles in 1971. Hundreds of spinoffs and copycat gangs have since emerged across the nation.

Washington was killed in a gang fight in 1979. Williams, "Big Took" to his fellow gang members, continued his violent ways and transformed the Crips into a national enterprise.

Williams, now 48, was convicted of killing four people in 1979. While appealing his death sentence, he has spent time writing children's books and coordinating an international peace effort for youths - all from his 9-by-4-foot cell at San Quentin State Prison.

The work has landed him Nobel Peace Prize nominations the last two years, but his efforts haven't swayed prosecutors and police groups who believe he should remain behind bars.

"He's created one of the biggest criminal networks that the world has ever seen. I will be glad to see him executed," said Deputy Attorney General Lisa J. Brault. "I don't think writing a few children's books negates what he has done."

Williams was sentenced to death in 1981 for fatally shooting a convenience store worker. He was also convicted of killing two Los Angeles motel owners and their daughter during a robbery a few days later.

Williams claims he is innocent. He said in his appeal that jailhouse informants lied when they testified that he confessed to the murders.

Despite its decision Tuesday, the appeals court seemed sympathetic to Williams' plight.

"Although Williams' good works and accomplishments since incarceration may make him a worthy candidate for the exercise of gubernatorial discretion, they are not matters that we in the federal judiciary are at liberty to take into consideration," Judge Procter Hug Jr. wrote.

A spokesman for Gov. Gray Davis said it's too soon to know whether the governor will intervene.

Barbara Becnel, a journalist who has helped Williams with his publishing career and maintains a Web site for the condemned inmate, was shaken by the court's ruling.

"That's incredibly bad news," she said.

The inmate's Internet Project for Street Peace links at-risk California and South African youths through e-mail and chat rooms. He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2001 - a move that drew sharp criticism from police groups - but he did not win.

Williams was nominated again this year for the prize. The winner has not yet been announced.

What Do you think?

DSTilmatic_1913

09-13-2002, 03:51 PM

I am not sure what to say on this one. I have sort of mixed views. If he is truly responsible for these crimes the he should definitely be held accountable but I am not sure if the death penalty is the proper punishment (though the family members of the victims may disagree) The fact that he has now dedicated his life to the betterment of society through literature should probably be considered a little more. Maybe those who were negatively influenced by his past can be re-directed down the right path through his literary works. I don't know....just a thought. :confused: As a Nobel Peace Prize nominee maybe he can now be a productive citizen. And maybe I am being a little to soft...

Also, they should consider DNA testing. Recently, it has set free one or two people who were wrongfully accused of a violent crime.

nikki1920

09-13-2002, 04:03 PM

He could have done all that good while he was a free man.

But it does make you think. hmmm....

dsmmi12

09-16-2002, 04:02 PM

Executing hime is not going to end the Crips criminal empire either. Sure he may have started it. But his death will not bring it to an end. If he did kill the people he is accused of killing then , yes he does need to serve time for his crimes.

However, the government needs to look at the reasons why gangs in urban city settings start in the first place and what are they doing to perpetuate this.

I am not holding government accountable for all wrong that people do ....however I am saying that many times they come in after the fact trying to slap a band-aid on a surgical wound.

Besides the fact that I dont totally agree with the death penalty anyway.

CrimsonTide4

10-26-2005, 12:36 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051025/wl_afp/usjusticeexecution

Judge has set a December Execution Date

raregem1913

10-26-2005, 01:59 PM

I agree, execution isn't going to stop the gang war. If anything, it might cause them to rebel seeing how this is one of their "founders".

I see them terrific 12's dominating this post!!! *hugz*

Proverbs31

10-26-2005, 02:11 PM

Wow, we were just discussing the death penalty in my Civil Liberties class this morning. Honestly, at times I have mixed views. But morally, I think its wrong. You're telling society that murder is wrong, yet you go on and kill another person by lethal injection or whatever method is used. :confused: JMO

Phasad1913

12-06-2005, 11:43 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/death_penalty

SACRAMENTO, Calif. - Calling death row inmate Stanley Tookie Williams a "secret weapon" for helping black men stay out of gangs, the head of the NAACP traveled across California on Tuesday to rally support for clemency for the convicted killer. Bruce Gordon, president and chief executive of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said executing Williams on Dec. 13 would be a mistake
...

I guess I'm in the mood to talk about this type of stuff tonite.

What do you all think about Tookie? Should he live or die?

For those of you who don't know, Stanley Tookie Williams is one of, if not the, founder of the CRIPS gang in Cali. Swartzenegger has the option to grant him clemency and stop his execution on the 13th or let him fry.

ladygreek

12-07-2005, 12:27 AM

Yanno, I am conflicted about this, because I am conflicted about what I feel about the death penalty. But on the other hand, I can't forget about the death and destruction he has directly or indirectly caused in our community.

So on one hand I want him to pay the ultimate price, but on the other hand it may be more beneficial to the communityfor him to serve the rest of his life in prison, if he truly is helping to turn things around.

Phasad1913

12-07-2005, 01:36 AM

That is exactly the way I feel. I'm sorry, but LOOK at all the destruction that gang has caused. He is responsible for that. Nevermind about the 4 other lives he was charged with taking, I am upset about the crips. I also feel, however, that the death penalty is a very difficult topic and I don't feel like going too deep into my views on that right now.

bobbyearl93

12-07-2005, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Phasad1913
That is exactly the way I feel. I'm sorry, but LOOK at all the destruction that gang has caused. He is responsible for that. ..

Williams is not responsible of all the destruction that gang has caused. Each member of that gang made a choice (regardless of their surroundings). Now, I understand the idea growing up in a place where everyone you know (family and friends) are involved in a gang. Nevertheless, you still have choices, because there were many that group up in those neighborhoods and didn't join gangs. So anybody who joined the crips, made that decision because they chose to. NOT BECAUSE TOOKIE MADE THEM. I am not saying that he isn't responsbile for his own actions, but he is not responsible for someone else's. Besides I think he has done more than any other man can possibly do from behind bars to stop gang violence.

Honeykiss1974

12-07-2005, 01:23 PM

While I do not believe in the death penalty, California does so therefore he should serve whatever sentence he received for murdering those 4 people.

Granted, this man ceated a nationwide legacy of violence and destruction, however maybe he will be remembered for the good he tried to do during his last years of life.

emeraldAKA99

12-07-2005, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
While I do not believe in the death penalty, California does so therefore he should serve whatever sentence he received for murdering those 4 people.

Granted, this man ceated a nationwide legacy of violence and destruction, however maybe he will be remembered for the good he tried to do during his last years of life.

I agree. I think he should be executed because that is the sentence his crime carries. Period. Even if he had nothing to do with the Crips, he would still, based on those four murders alone, deserve the death penalty because that is the applicable law and penalty where he was convicted.

I too am glad that he has rehabilitated. He owed that to himself, so that he might leave this world in peace and with a decent legacy. Moreover, so that he may be blessed with Grace and Mercy. That is reward enough, in itself.

Phasad1913

12-07-2005, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by bobbyearl93
Williams is not responsible of all the destruction that gang has caused. Each member of that gang made a choice (regardless of their surroundings). Now, I understand the idea growing up in a place where everyone you know (family and friends) are involved in a gang. Nevertheless, you still have choices, because there were many that group up in those neighborhoods and didn't join gangs. So anybody who joined the crips, made that decision because they chose to. NOT BECAUSE TOOKIE MADE THEM. I am not saying that he isn't responsbile for his own actions, but he is not responsible for someone else's. Besides I think he has done more than any other man can possibly do from behind bars to stop gang violence.

He is responsible due to his involvement with the creation of that notorious gang. Without his creating it, those kids may have had other influences that would have steered them in a different direction in life. That goes for Tookie as well as any and all other creators of these gangs we have to deal with today.

LionOfJudah

12-07-2005, 05:52 PM

I have read these posts and I would like to pose a questions to the people who posted here and to those who have just read the posts. There are some dangerous and "unorthodox" actions in all of our BGLOs that could cause harm to members, perspective members, and in turn the community (i.e. hazing, binge drinking, unprotected sex, etc.). Now with that said, would you feel comfortable with your founders being put on trial and held accountable for the actions of some of the members of the organizations. I am sure we all know that it was not the intention of the founders of our orgs to have these types of activities be associated with our "great gatherings of men and women". Let's say just for sake of argument that one of my Founders was put on trial. In my case, A L Taylor, the founder that had the vision of my great fraternity (the Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc. 1914), was put on trial and ridiculed for the actions of a chapter that injured a young man during his pledge process. During this ridicule he is attacked and his life threatened for these actions.
It is painfully obvious that Mr. Williams is not being put to death/"murdered" for his connections with those 4 murders he was accused of because the evidence in those cases are circumstantial AT BEST. I do want you all to understand that perspective has a lot to do with this issue. We don't see ourselves (BGLOs) as gangs but there are those who look at us that way. Keep in mind that these gangs (Crips, Bloods, Brotherhood, Latin Kings, and Vice Lords) have been surrogate families for a lot of the members... because of the shortcomings of our community. Let's not even delve into the shortcomings of our government because it is ultimately our responsibility to raise our children and our brother's children. Why do we not attack the disease and not the symptom. Gangs and gang violence are not the disease, they are the symptom of neglect on our part. Just something to think about when you are giving opinions on this mans life. A life not given to him by any of us and a life not lived by any of us.

Again my opinion. Open for suggestion, I am saying this is the only way to look at this issue...this is just my take...

Humbly submitted,

LoJ

CrimsonTide4

12-07-2005, 06:14 PM

Interesting. I have some thoughts that I need to finish hammering out in response to LoJ's post and his comparisons of gangs to fraternities and sororities.

But I shall return. :)

darling1

12-07-2005, 06:53 PM

williams bears a great deal of responsibility with the 'direction' the crips gang had gone. is he directly responsible for every idiot that joins, no; indirectly, yes. however, im not sure if his gang affiliation should be a heavy factor in deciding his fate. ideally, the evidence needs to be looked at throroughly. from what i have read, there is some discrepancy regarding his participation. williams owned the gun/s that were used in the crime but i believe there is a question whether he was actively involved in the murders. i also believe that because the system is inherently flawed, death really shouldnt be an option, but that is an entirely different discussion.

its great that he has turned his life around while in prison. he is one of the few prison success stories out there. i agree wholeheartedly that he should have been doing that all along. i have little sympathy for folks who resort to a life of crime and dont progress out of that life. we all make choices. life is hard for many.we just have to deal. im somewhat offended that people are considering him worthy of a nobel prize. there are billions of people in this world who make a difference in a community, for a people and/or for humanity. many go unnoticed and many do so without having resorted to negativity or being associated with negativity.

i do hope he doesnt die. there needs to be clear proof that tookie was the one that pulled the trigger or was the mastermind behind it. if neither is the case then he needs to stay alive and have his say.

Originally posted by bobbyearl93
Williams is not responsible of all the destruction that gang has caused. Each member of that gang made a choice (regardless of their surroundings). Now, I understand the idea growing up in a place where everyone you know (family and friends) are involved in a gang. Nevertheless, you still have choices, because there were many that group up in those neighborhoods and didn't join gangs. So anybody who joined the crips, made that decision because they chose to. NOT BECAUSE TOOKIE MADE THEM. I am not saying that he isn't responsbile for his own actions, but he is not responsible for someone else's. Besides I think he has done more than any other man can possibly do from behind bars to stop gang violence.

UrbanizdSkillz

12-07-2005, 07:06 PM

Killing Williams will not bring those four people back nor will it deter new people from joining the gang or even hinder new criminal activity. Being completely against the death penalty, I believe his good deeds should take precedence over his past. I've been deeply disturbed by this situation since I started doing further research into it. I honestly do not believe that he deserves to die.

darling1

12-07-2005, 07:21 PM

in your research, what have you discovered?

Originally posted by UrbanizdSkillz
Killing Williams will not bring those four people back nor will it deter new people from joining the gang or even hinder new criminal activity. Being completely against the death penalty, I believe his good deeds should take precedence over his past. I've been deeply disturbed by this situation since I started doing further research into it. I honestly do not believe that he deserves to die.

CrimsonTide4

12-07-2005, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by LionOfJudah
There are some dangerous and "unorthodox" actions in all of our BGLOs that could cause harm to members, perspective members, and in turn the community (i.e. hazing, binge drinking, unprotected sex, etc.). Now with that said, would you feel comfortable with your founders being put on trial and held accountable for the actions of some of the members of the organizations. I am sure we all know that it was not the intention of the founders of our orgs to have these types of activities be associated with our "great gatherings of men and women".

Before I begin, let me state for the record, I am not well versed/read on the totality of Stanley "Tookie" Williams, the 4 murders, etc.

My response is related the question/scenario posed above.

I contend that all of the NPHC organizations were founded with a purpose of uplift that promoted brother/sisterhood, scholarship, and service.

I just read THIS (http://www.tookie.com/abtook.html).

Taken from the above link:

The Beginning
In the spring of 1971, when Tookie was 17, he was in a very different situation. He was a high school student from South Central Los Angeles. He had a fearsome reputation as a fighter and as a "general" of South Central's west side. And, around that time, Tookie, along with Raymond Lee Washington, created what would one day be a super-gang, the Crips.

Back in the day when Tookie and Raymond founded the Crips, many of the young people of South Central Los Angeles were involved with small gangs. Those gang members roamed South Central taking property from anyone who feared them, including women and children. To protect the community, Tookie and Raymond organized the Crips.

Growth
By 1979, the Crips had grown from a small Los Angeles gang to an organization with membership spread across the State of California. By this time, Crips had also become just like the gang members they had once sought to protect themselves from -- Crips had become gangbangers who terrorized their own neighborhoods.

Soon the Crips lost both their leaders: in 1979, Raymond was murdered by a rival gang member, and, that same year, Tookie was arrested. He was charged with murdering four people. In 1981, Tookie was convicted of those crimes and placed on death row.

Now I know that it states that The Crips were created to protect the community, but this isn't Fat Albert we're talking about.

To answer the question, you posed:

IF any 1 of my 22 founders was still alive today and
IF a prospective member of the organization was killed due to an act of hazing and
IF the court, judicial system attempted to indict the founder(s) for this act that was not committed by the founder herself, but by a member of the organization, then

NO, the founder is not responsible for the death of the member.

I know some folks attempt to equate fraternities and sororities to gangs, but it is an unfair comparison. By and large, our organizations are marinated in positivity.

Tookie was known as a fighter. When the Crips were born to protect, I doubt that the protection was just verbal, "Please leave our neighborhood alone" and gave them books to read.

The word gang carries a negative connotation. So, unfortunately, Tookie Williams, while his life has become positive while incarcerated, did some negative things (not necessarily the 4 murders) but his bad, unfortunately, is overshadowing the good he has done while incarcerated.

Just my thoughts.

ladygreek

12-07-2005, 08:00 PM

Well said, CT4.

LoJ, the comparison of Tookie Williams as a founder of the Crips to the founders of our BGLOs really bothers me. BGLOs as a whole, do not commit the illegal acts of hazing, etc--wayward members do. I can't say the same about gangs.

Growing up, I had family members and acquaintances that belonged to rival Chicago gangs--the Vice Lords and the Disciples. There was nothing protective (except for their "own" territories,) nor uplifting about them, .

CrimsonTide4

12-07-2005, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by ladygreek
Well said, CT4.

LoJ, the comparison of Tookie Williams as a founder of the Crips to the founders of our BGLOs really bothers me. BGLOs as a whole, do not commit the illegal acts of hazing, etc--wayward members do. I can't say the same about gangs.

Growing up, I had family members and acquaintances that belonged to rival Chicago gangs--the Vice Lords and the Disciples. There was nothing protective (except for their "own" territories,) nor uplifting about them, .

**MUAH** :) :D

allsmiles_22

12-07-2005, 08:12 PM

To those who have done more research, besides the books he has written, what are the other good deeds he is being credited with?

rho4life

12-07-2005, 09:03 PM

I am not in favor of the DP in general. But, that's the law in CA. Fry him. I wish that all the energy that's been expended to try to "save" him had been put towards doing community service/outreach. Instead of trying to avoid his execution, why not take some time to tutor a kid who's at risk?

CrimsonTide4

12-07-2005, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by rho4life
I wish that all the energy that's been expended to try to "save" him had been put towards doing community service/outreach. Instead of trying to avoid his execution, why not take some time to tutor a kid who's at risk?

**waving my church fan**

Phasad1913

12-07-2005, 09:24 PM

darling1

12-07-2005, 10:11 PM

so should he be fried for his direct or indirect involvement with these killings or should he be fried because of his history with the crips?

i ask this because i have read that the guns used were his but he didnt actually do the killing.

also, i think its unfair to compare williams' motives for starting the crips to that of any bglo. to me, williams' reasons were self-serving not designed to enhance or benefit a community or mankind. whereas bglos were created to not only serve the positive motives of their respective founders but to create a history and system of philanthropy w/n our communities.

no offense, but that kind of discussion should be separate and should have no bearing on this issue.

Originally posted by rho4life
I am not in favor of the DP in general. But, that's the law in CA. Fry him. I wish that all the energy that's been expended to try to "save" him had been put towards doing community service/outreach. Instead of trying to avoid his execution, why not take some time to tutor a kid who's at risk?

CrimsonTide4

12-08-2005, 10:51 AM

Today is his clemency hearing.

DELTAQTE

12-08-2005, 11:02 AM

I think that if he's executed that there's gonna be some chit in the city, and a big huge Attica type response from crips in jail and on the street, I'm serious.:(

CrimsonTide4

12-08-2005, 11:09 AM

DSTinguished1

12-08-2005, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by DELTAQTE
I think that if he's executed that there's gonna be some chit in the city, and a big huge Attica type response from crips in jail and on the street, I'm serious.:(

^^^ i was thinking the same thing. if they execute him after all this hype and attention, you are asking for a riot. which is sad cause thats the only way some black people know how to express their disappointments.

DELTAQTE

12-08-2005, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by DSTinguished1
^^^ i was thinking the same thing. if they execute him after all this hype and attention, you are asking for a riot. which is sad cause thats the only way some black people know how to express their disappointments.

I know there was a rumor that crips in jail were planning on acting the fool if he was executed, but that's just a rumor of course.

Wasn't Tookie nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?

bobbyearl93

12-08-2005, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by DELTAQTE
I know there was a rumor that crips in jail were planning on acting the fool if he was executed, but that's just a rumor of course.

Wasn't Tookie nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?

Five times and counting... As for the crips in jail, I am sure San Quentin has already approved the overtime. Plus they probably have a swat team on standby.

darling1

12-08-2005, 11:27 AM

i saw the interview with williams last night. there are serious problems with the evidence that got him put away. after watching the show, i couldnt help but wonder if williams is on death row for his role as a crip founder or as the person responsible for killing those people back in '79?

there was a gentleman who was a rally participant that compared the williams scenario to george bush and the current war. he basically said that if tookie was being held responsible/incarcerated for starting the crips and all that came with it, then shouldnt bush be held in the same light for the iraqi war and its current state of affairs?

if tookie is granted clemency, then what will happen? with the work that he has done and plans to do, do any of you think that he will attempt to get himself released from prison?

i will say that now i am not as clear on this issue as i was before.

rho4life

12-08-2005, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by bobbyearl93
Five times and counting... As for the crips in jail, I am sure San Quentin has already approved the overtime. Plus they probably have a swat team on standby.

I'm not really worried about residual violence. I don't think that he's still an icon to that many men on the street who are in the "life". As for those in jail, this is not the first time they've killed some one in Marin County, they have it down to a SCIENCE. Every time there's an execution, it's on the Bay Area news in a special late night feature, and the radios cover it etc. We don't kill people as often as Texas, but enough that they've thought about what *could* happen in the rest of the population afterwards.

Regarding his Nobel prize nomination, just like any other award, many are called for nomination, but the chosen are few for the actual award......

mulattogyrl

12-08-2005, 11:36 AM

mulattogyrl

12-08-2005, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by darling1
i will say that now i am not as clear on this issue as i was before.

Me either.

DELTAQTE

12-08-2005, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by darling1
i saw the interview with williams last night. there are serious problems with the evidence that got him put away. after watching the show, i couldnt help but wonder if williams is on death row for his role as a crip founder or as the person responsible for killing those people back in '79?

You hit the nail on the head why I have a problem with it. I really do think that he's on death row for creating the crips than the murder he's accussed of. Yes he created a dangerous gang, but to hold him accountable for every single member of the crips who's committed a crime? I have a problem with that.

darling1

12-08-2005, 12:50 PM

hubby and i were chatting about this last night. i am thinking that perhaps williams making a complete turn around and participating in the solution (writing books against ganglife, working with the naacp) and doing something to enhance the quality of life of our community (writing childrens books), is a significant way he is repaying for his crimes and contribution to gang life.

because our justice system is so flawed, when there are people who are actually doing what they are suppose to do as convicted felons of tookie's magnitude, perhaps the system doesnt know what to do with that 'energy' or in some cases doesnt want to invest in taking the time.

i do think that he is indirectly responsible. he created the vehicle by which many of our people have lost their lives and/or have contributed to our community's problems. he does and should bear that burden.

Originally posted by DELTAQTE
You hit the nail on the head why I have a problem with it. I really do think that he's on death row for creating the crips than the murder he's accussed of. Yes he created a dangerous gang, but to hold him accountable for every single member of the crips who's committed a crime? I have a problem with that.

SummerChild

12-08-2005, 10:54 PM

Urbanizd,
While I don't want him to be put to death, I think that due to the huge amount of publicity it has received (so folk doing crime may actually *know* about the execution, which is usually not the case) it just may deter some from at least being involved in activity that could lead to lives being lost.

I don't think that the death penalty is focused on bringing people back. I think it's moreso supposed to serve as a deterrent to others.

I have to acknowledge that what he started has been to the demise of AAs. Save one life possibly but how many have we lost?

Well, at least he did good things with his life iafter he was jailed. He has touched more lives than some people who die of natural causes ever will....in good ways and in not so good ways.

Originally posted by UrbanizdSkillz
Killing Williams will not bring those four people back nor will it deter new people from joining the gang or even hinder new criminal activity. Being completely against the death penalty, I believe his good deeds should take precedence over his past. I've been deeply disturbed by this situation since I started doing further research into it. I honestly do not believe that he deserves to die.

SKEEphistAKAte

12-08-2005, 11:11 PM

I originally posted this in the Kappa forum, not realizing it was being discussed here:

I am not against the death penalty. However, studies show that death sentences are disproportionately handed to minorities as opposed to whites. But in this particular case, I feel that he has what is coming to him. Yeah, he is supposedly "reformed" but don't many of the people in jail claim to have found religion?

Further, think about the monster that this man created. Think about all of the lives, especially the innocent lives, that have been taken as a result of the gang this man founded. Gangs have become a major killer in the African American community, largely as a result of the gang that he created and the glorification of gang life in media or whathaveyou. The black people- gang memebers and innocent people- who have died as a result of the organization he created did not have their lives spared- why should he? Yeah, he has written children's books and vowed to be an upstanding human being, but who know what the people who've died as a result of his gang would have done with their lives- who knows what kind of leaders they would have become and how they would have uplifted the black community.

If there was a former slavemaster on death row, claiming that he found god and is reformed, begging for clemency black people would be up in arms. Here we have a man who is directly or indirectly responsible for taking the lives of so many of our people and for destroying so many of our familes and here we are begging for his life to be spared...I just can't get with that.

Shalom08

12-08-2005, 11:45 PM

SummerChild, you wrote, "it just may deter some from at least being involved in activity that could lead to lives being lost".

Unfortunately, it hasn't sunk (nor skimmed the surface) into the minds nor hearts of many young men living on a thuggish mentality.

Minutes after attending a peaceful protest outside the gates of San Quentin Prison, Nino, a young African-American male (whom I personally know would have made a positive impact on the hip-hop/rap culture), was gunned down in his Richmond, Ca. neighborhood.

Why???? Because he, Nino, sports LOCS as his "do" of choice. For what I was told, there is a thug-group in Richmond that has called a war on another thug-group that wears locs and gets high on a mix of estasy and purple before doing their thug-thangs.

Sadly, Nino's untimely and senseless death was not only a case of mistaken identity, but is an example of how basically, NOTHING appeals to the conscienceness of some young men...NOTHING!

***And because brothaman's job has him inside, upclose and personal with the CDC (California Department of Corrections) System and I have to listen and allow him to air-and-vent-his-day-for-the-sake-of-sanity, I won't weigh in on Tookie either.

Shalom~

L.O.C.K.

12-10-2005, 05:45 AM

Does anyone know the details on the murder(s)? Like, I'm unclear on the evidence, etc. Is it circumstantial? What all is it?

Thanks
Nate

Steeltrap

12-12-2005, 04:46 PM

This isn't surprising. Schwarzenegger is an unpopular governor who is seeking reelection and there's no way that he erodes his already shaky base by keeping STW from frying:

Williams Denied Clemency

By DAVID KRAVETS, Associated Press Writer
10 minutes ago

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger denied clemency to Stanley Tookie Williams, the former gang leader whose case stirred debate over capital punishment and the possibility of redemption on death row.

Williams, 51, is set to die by injection at San Quentin State Prison after midnight for murdering four people in two 1979 holdups.

Hollywood stars and death penalty opponents mounted a campaign to save his life, making him one of the nation's biggest death-row cause celebres in decades. His supporters argued that the founder of the murderous Crips gang had made amends during more than two decades in prison by writing a memoir and children's books about the dangers of gangs.

Prosecutors and victims' advocates contended Williams was undeserving of clemency from the governor because he did not own up to his crimes and refused to inform on fellow gang members. They also argued that the Crips gang that Williams co-founded in Los Angeles in 1971 is responsible for hundreds of deaths, many of them in battles with the rival Bloods for turf and control of the drug trade.

Williams stands to become the 12th California condemned inmate executed since lawmakers reinstated the death penalty in 1977 after a brief hiatus.

Williams was condemned in 1981 for gunning down a clerk in a convenience store holdup and a mother, father and daughter in a motel robbery weeks later. Williams claimed he was innocent.

The last time a California governor granted clemency was in 1967, when Ronald Reagan spared a mentally infirm killer.

Less than 12 hours before the execution was set to take place, the 9th U.S. Circuit of Appeals said it would not intervene because, among other things, there was no "clear and convincing evidence of actual innocence."

In his last-ditch appeal, Williams claimed that he should have been allowed to argue at his trial that someone else killed one of the four victims, and that shoddy forensics connected him to the other killings.

Williams was convicted of killing Yen-I Yang, 76, Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, 63, and Yu-Chin Yang Lin, 43, at a Los Angeles motel the family owned, and Albert Owens, 26, a 7-Eleven clerk gunned down in Whittier.

Among the celebrities who took up Williams' cause were Jamie Foxx, who played the gang leader in a cable movie about Williams; rapper Snoop Dogg, himself a former Crip; Sister Helen Prejean, the nun depicted in "Dead Man Walking"; Bianca Jagger; and former "M A S H" star Mike Farrell. During Williams' 24 years on death row, a Swiss legislator, college professors and others nominated him for the Nobel Prizes in peace and literature.

"If Stanley Williams does not merit clemency," defense attorney Peter Fleming Jr. asked, "what meaning does clemency retain in this state?"

The impending execution resulted in feverish preparations over the weekend by those on both sides of the debate, with the California Highway Patrol planning to tighten security outside the prison, where hundreds of protesters were expected.

A group of about three dozen death penalty protesters were joined by the Rev. Jesse Jackson as they marched across the Golden Gate Bridge after dawn Monday en route to the gates of San Quentin, where they were expected to rally with hundreds of people.

At least publicly, the person apparently least occupied with his fate seemed to be Williams himself.

"Me fearing what I'm facing, what possible good is it going to do for me? How is that going to benefit me?" Williams said in a recent interview. "If it's my time to be executed, what's all the ranting and raving going to do?"

darling1

12-12-2005, 05:32 PM

im sad about this. but this situation does beg the questions, what does constitute in society's eyes as being fully rehabilitated? should there be opportunities for criminals, especially violent offenders to attempt 'change' or should they just rot or be put to death?

Gyrl7

12-12-2005, 05:44 PM

Arnold Schwarzenegger might want to make sure he has SWAT at his door, because the CRIPs might come after him.

SummerChild

12-12-2005, 05:53 PM

I'm shocked. I thought that Arnold was going to hide behind the doors of his house and not say anything.
SC
Originally posted by Steeltrap
This isn't surprising. Schwarzenegger is an unpopular governor who is seeking reelection and there's no way that he erodes his already shaky base by keeping STW from frying:

Williams Denied Clemency

By DAVID KRAVETS, Associated Press Writer
10 minutes ago

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger denied clemency to Stanley Tookie Williams, the former gang leader whose case stirred debate over capital punishment and the possibility of redemption on death row.

Williams, 51, is set to die by injection at San Quentin State Prison after midnight for murdering four people in two 1979 holdups.

Hollywood stars and death penalty opponents mounted a campaign to save his life, making him one of the nation's biggest death-row cause celebres in decades. His supporters argued that the founder of the murderous Crips gang had made amends during more than two decades in prison by writing a memoir and children's books about the dangers of gangs.

Prosecutors and victims' advocates contended Williams was undeserving of clemency from the governor because he did not own up to his crimes and refused to inform on fellow gang members. They also argued that the Crips gang that Williams co-founded in Los Angeles in 1971 is responsible for hundreds of deaths, many of them in battles with the rival Bloods for turf and control of the drug trade.

Williams stands to become the 12th California condemned inmate executed since lawmakers reinstated the death penalty in 1977 after a brief hiatus.

Williams was condemned in 1981 for gunning down a clerk in a convenience store holdup and a mother, father and daughter in a motel robbery weeks later. Williams claimed he was innocent.

The last time a California governor granted clemency was in 1967, when Ronald Reagan spared a mentally infirm killer.

Less than 12 hours before the execution was set to take place, the 9th U.S. Circuit of Appeals said it would not intervene because, among other things, there was no "clear and convincing evidence of actual innocence."

In his last-ditch appeal, Williams claimed that he should have been allowed to argue at his trial that someone else killed one of the four victims, and that shoddy forensics connected him to the other killings.

Williams was convicted of killing Yen-I Yang, 76, Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, 63, and Yu-Chin Yang Lin, 43, at a Los Angeles motel the family owned, and Albert Owens, 26, a 7-Eleven clerk gunned down in Whittier.

Among the celebrities who took up Williams' cause were Jamie Foxx, who played the gang leader in a cable movie about Williams; rapper Snoop Dogg, himself a former Crip; Sister Helen Prejean, the nun depicted in "Dead Man Walking"; Bianca Jagger; and former "M A S H" star Mike Farrell. During Williams' 24 years on death row, a Swiss legislator, college professors and others nominated him for the Nobel Prizes in peace and literature.

"If Stanley Williams does not merit clemency," defense attorney Peter Fleming Jr. asked, "what meaning does clemency retain in this state?"

The impending execution resulted in feverish preparations over the weekend by those on both sides of the debate, with the California Highway Patrol planning to tighten security outside the prison, where hundreds of protesters were expected.

A group of about three dozen death penalty protesters were joined by the Rev. Jesse Jackson as they marched across the Golden Gate Bridge after dawn Monday en route to the gates of San Quentin, where they were expected to rally with hundreds of people.

At least publicly, the person apparently least occupied with his fate seemed to be Williams himself.

"Me fearing what I'm facing, what possible good is it going to do for me? How is that going to benefit me?" Williams said in a recent interview. "If it's my time to be executed, what's all the ranting and raving going to do?"

LionOfJudah

12-12-2005, 06:37 PM

For those of you who have read my postings before you know I my thoughts on the Gov. of California's decision would sound something like this..."isn't this typical...you spineless, ignorant, credentialess coward" not just like that but something really really close....*smile*
this brings up anther question for me....this man has been on death row for years and we are just getting to the point where he is being put to death.... I find it necessary to include that I am an opponent of the death penalty in all cases but I do have to bring up that I think allowing someone to sit for year after year thinking about the day he/she is to be put to death is somewhat cruel and unusual to me. Even in the days of the guillotine (an apparatus we as a society have deemed inhumane) the process was swift and "purposeful". Now even if I thought death was a plausible and "correct" punishment I don't think forcing to await their death for years is humane. Again just a thought...

Main Entry: cru·el and un·usu·al punishment
Function: noun
: punishment that is offensive to the contemporary morality or jurisprudence (as by being degrading, inflicting unnecessary and intentional pain, or being disproportionate to the offense) <nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted —U.S. Constitution amendment VIII> —see also Gregg v. Georgia in the IMPORTANT CASES section —compare CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, DEATH PENALTY
NOTE: A cruel and unusual punishment is essentially one that the courts consider to violate the Eighth Amendment based on a variety of criteria. The interpretation of what constitutes cruel and unusual punishment has changed over time and has varied from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Most forms of corporal punishment formerly used at common law have been found to be cruel and unusual punishments.

Loj

CrimsonTide4

12-12-2005, 07:26 PM

I agree with you, LoJ. I am not clearly decided on for or against the death penalty but I am STRONGLY AGAINST them sitting on death row for years and years and years. It is very cruel and inhumane.

LionOfJudah

12-12-2005, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by LionOfJudah
For those of you who have read my postings before you know I my thoughts on the Gov. of California's decision would sound something like this..."isn't this typical...you spineless, ignorant, credentialess coward" not just like that but something really really close....*smile*
this brings up another question for me....this man has been on death row for years and we are just getting to the point where he is being put to death.... I find it necessary to include that I am an opponent of the death penalty in all cases but I do have to bring up that I think allowing someone to sit for year after year thinking about the day he/she is to be put to death is somewhat cruel and unusual to me. Even in the days of the guillotine (an apparatus we as a society have deemed inhumane) the process was swift and "purposeful". Now even if I thought death was a plausible and "correct" punishment I don't think forcing to await their death for years is humane. Again just a thought...

Main Entry: cru·el and un·usu·al punishment
Function: noun
: punishment that is offensive to the contemporary morality or jurisprudence (as by being degrading, inflicting unnecessary and intentional pain, or being disproportionate to the offense) <nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted —U.S. Constitution amendment VIII> —see also Gregg v. Georgia in the IMPORTANT CASES section —compare CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, DEATH PENALTY
NOTE: A cruel and unusual punishment is essentially one that the courts consider to violate the Eighth Amendment based on a variety of criteria. The interpretation of what constitutes cruel and unusual punishment has changed over time and has varied from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Most forms of corporal punishment formerly used at common law have been found to be cruel and unusual punishments.

Loj

SummerChild

12-12-2005, 08:17 PM

These concerns are balanced against the desire to provide someone with every possible appeal before any execution. I think that someone can waive all appeals to speed up the process if the person wants.
SC

Originally posted by LionOfJudah
For those of you who have read my postings before you know I my thoughts on the Gov. of California's decision would sound something like this..."isn't this typical...you spineless, ignorant, credentialess coward" not just like that but something really really close....*smile*
this brings up anther question for me....this man has been on death row for years and we are just getting to the point where he is being put to death.... I find it necessary to include that I am an opponent of the death penalty in all cases but I do have to bring up that I think allowing someone to sit for year after year thinking about the day he/she is to be put to death is somewhat cruel and unusual to me. Even in the days of the guillotine (an apparatus we as a society have deemed inhumane) the process was swift and "purposeful". Now even if I thought death was a plausible and "correct" punishment I don't think forcing to await their death for years is humane. Again just a thought...

Main Entry: cru·el and un·usu·al punishment
Function: noun
: punishment that is offensive to the contemporary morality or jurisprudence (as by being degrading, inflicting unnecessary and intentional pain, or being disproportionate to the offense) <nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted —U.S. Constitution amendment VIII> —see also Gregg v. Georgia in the IMPORTANT CASES section —compare CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, DEATH PENALTY
NOTE: A cruel and unusual punishment is essentially one that the courts consider to violate the Eighth Amendment based on a variety of criteria. The interpretation of what constitutes cruel and unusual punishment has changed over time and has varied from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Most forms of corporal punishment formerly used at common law have been found to be cruel and unusual punishments.

Loj

aopirose

12-12-2005, 08:24 PM

I don’t know the details of this case. However, he was found guilty and therefore, his life is forfeit. It does seem inhumane that he has been on death row all this time but that is the way the justice system works. I am sure that it was due to appeals and so forth. If something has not been found to exonerate him in all this time then it never will materialize.

LionOfJudah

12-12-2005, 08:52 PM

"every possible appeal before any execution" that is an interesting point but in a case that has the fate of a persons life in the balance there are certainly "speedier" processes that could be used. Speedy process is also a "right" given to us via the Constitution. But again we are in a country where all right are supposedly innate. Those rights were then taken from us and given back to us as the courts, congress, and president and his advisors deem necessary...but that is a whole different discussion. But again very good point SummerChild.

LoJ

UrbanizdSkillz

12-12-2005, 11:57 PM

You know, I truly believe that he is on DR as a result of founding the crips in contrast to the four murders he was accused of. Taking that same token, why wasn't the founder of the Klu Klux Klan put on death row? Did he not create a group of people with a mindset for destruction?

f1r9e8d1a81

12-13-2005, 04:42 AM

Continuing with Tookie Williams' execution will only start more chaos with the gangs nationwide. The Terminator better use some of his powers for protection. He, ( Terminator) knew he wasn't going to grant him clemency in the first place.

AKA2D '91

12-13-2005, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by f1r9e8d1a81
he knew he wasn't going to grant him clemency in the first place.

Exactly!

DELTABRAT

12-13-2005, 12:25 PM

Schwarzenewhatever said this:

"There is little mention of atonement in his writings and his plea for clemency of the countless murders committed by the Crips following the lifestyle Williams once espoused. The senseless killing that has ruined many families, particularly in African-American communities, in the name of the Crips and gang warfare is a tragedy of our modern culture."

He was executed for starting the Crips gang, not for killing four people. Period!

Schwarzenegger notes that Williams dedicated his 1998 book to a group that includes Nelson Mandela, Malcolm X and Mumia Abu-Jamal. In particular, Schwarzenegger said the inclusion of a dedication to George Jackson, who was charged with the murder of a California prison guard, "defies reason and is a significant indicator that Williams is not reformed."

Huh? :confused:

John Monaghan, emphasized to reporters that Williams was convicted of killing four people in an "abhorrent" manner and has not provided information to police about the Crips, the notorious gang he co-founded.

"They" know what it's about. The only photo they have of one of the people killed and the only person they quote as being "happy" about the executions is the Owens guy. A white man in uniform of some sort. Where are the Asian folks' family?

Oh, well. On another note. I'ts nice and calm and quiet on the West side of Los Angeles. I'm about to go to my mom's in Compton. We'll see how that goes...

DSTinguished1

12-13-2005, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by UrbanizdSkillz
You know, I truly believe that he is on DR as a result of founding the crips in contrast to the four murders he was accused of. Taking that same token, why wasn't the founder of the Klu Klux Klan put on death row? Did he not create a group of people with a mindset for destruction?

Great point!

SummerChild

12-13-2005, 04:20 PM

OK, LOJ so say if you are wrongly accused of killing someone, i want to see you run to the judge and waive all of your appeals for a speedy execution.

SC

Originally posted by LionOfJudah
"every possible appeal before any execution" that is an interesting point but in a case that has the fate of a persons life in the balance there are certainly "speedier" processes that could be used. Speedy process is also a "right" given to us via the Constitution. But again we are in a country where all right are supposedly innate. Those rights were then taken from us and given back to us as the courts, congress, and president and his advisors deem necessary...but that is a whole different discussion. But again very good point SummerChild.

LoJ

LionOfJudah

12-13-2005, 05:41 PM

SC, Never meant to communicate that I would waive anything but I would want my appeals to be speedy and productive...I don't want to sit arolund and wait to die...
LoJ

AKA_Monet

12-13-2005, 05:45 PM

Since I have decided to not take my medication today for bipolar disorder, the paranoia has set in and I think this is a whole set up from Homeland Security to root out gangbangers as a form of terrorism...

Why, without Tookie around, the man that many in the streets of LA believe that brokered a deal of "peace" between the Crips and the Bloods, there will be nothing to stop the facist police state of Kollyfornication to "enable" these "untamed, wild bunch of adolescents" (spelled: gorillas in the mists), to go at each other for 3 strikes laws to be enacted...

Once you get all these "animals" (not my words, but once you understand the basis of white supremacy, then you understand its motivations), into "jars"--spelled prisons, then the 14th amendment of the US constitution can rendered... Enslavement...

Really, do you think our young men will be able to restrain themselves when there is less money for social programs, no family structure, no jobs they are qualified to do, no education, and no reason why they should think they can accomplish anything positive? Really?

A man calls himself "redemmed" and we, all of us, fail to "forgive"... Although I disagree with Rev. Al Sharpton on a lot of stuff, he pegged the Christian Right--"we aren't dealing with the right Christians..."

And don't let South Central or Compton find out the APPEARANCE of innocence by Tookie... Don't have some DNA evidence show up on the bodies, or stories reneged [sp?]...

I'm glad I am not in SoCal anymore... But I will be watching it live and direct on Fox News Channel when it does jump off... Or at least have that chit podcasted...

Happy Holidays everyone!!! And to all Good Nite!!! :(

CrimsonTide4

12-13-2005, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
Since I have decided to not take my medication today for bipolar disorder, the paranoia has set in and I think this is a whole set up from Homeland Security to root out gangbangers as a form of terrorism...

Why, without Tookie around, the man that many in the streets of LA believe that brokered a deal of "peace" between the Crips and the Bloods, there will be nothing to stop the facist police state of Kollyfornication to "enable" these "untamed, wild bunch of adolescents" (spelled: gorillas in the mists), to go at each other for 3 strikes laws to be enacted...

Once you get all these "animals" (not my words, but once you understand the basis of white supremacy, then you understand its motivations), into "jars"--spelled prisons, then the 14th amendment of the US constitution can rendered... Enslavement...

Really, do you think our young men will be able to restrain themselves when there is less money for social programs, no family structure, no jobs they are qualified to do, no education, and no reason why they should think they can accomplish anything positive? Really?

A man calls himself "redemmed" and we, all of us, fail to "forgive"... Although I disagree with Rev. Al Sharpton on a lot of stuff, he pegged the Christian Right--"we aren't dealing with the right Christians..."

And don't let South Central or Compton find out the APPEARANCE of innocence by Tookie... Don't have some DNA evidence show up on the bodies, or stories reneged [sp?]...

I'm glad I am not in SoCal anymore... But I will be watching it live and direct on Fox News Channel when it does jump off... Or at least have that chit podcasted...

Happy Holidays everyone!!! And to all Good Nite!!! :(

AKA_Monet, your "paranoia" is on target.

I agree with a lot of what you said. And woe is the day when someone does a little DNA digging and finds out that Williams is completely and utterly innocent. :eek: They would need to bring home all of the troops from Iraq to handle what would happen. :(

ladygreek

12-13-2005, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by LionOfJudah
"every possible appeal before any execution" that is an interesting point but in a case that has the fate of a persons life in the balance there are certainly "speedier" processes that could be used. Speedy process is also a "right" given to us via the Constitution. But again we are in a country where all right are supposedly innate. Those rights were then taken from us and given back to us as the courts, congress, and president and his advisors deem necessary...but that is a whole different discussion. But again very good point SummerChild.

LoJ
Which is why prisoner's rights are a semi-hot topic now.

CrimsonTide4

12-13-2005, 07:31 PM

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/30/153247

Wednesday, November 30th, 2005
A Conversation with Death Row Prisoner Stanley Tookie Williams from his San Quentin Cell

The story of Tookie Williams begins in the streets of Los Angeles in the early 1970s. At the age of 17 he started the Crips street gang with his friend Raymond Washington. The gang would expand across the country and even overseas. In 1979 Williams was arrested in connection with four murders.

He was convicted of shooting dead a 7-Eleven clerk named Albert Owens and of robbing and killing a Taiwanese motel owner along with his wife and daughter. He was sentenced in 1981 to four death sentences.

Tookie Williams has always maintained his innocence and claims he received an unfair trial, in part, because he was convicted by an all-white jury. In 1993, Williams life took a dramatic turn when he agreed to record a videotaped message from death row supporting a truce between the Crips and the Bloods. The videotape was shown during a peace summit meeting attended by over 400 gang members.

Stanley Tookie Williams, speaking in 1993.

After Tookie Williams addressed the Hands Across Watts gang peace summit in 1993, he became more involved in helping to keep young people out of gangs. With the help of his main advocate, Barbara Becnel, Williams soon began writing children"s books and speaking with young people about the gang life. He also helped orchestrate truces between gangs.
While his court appeals have largely been exhausted, judges have publicly admitted there is a strong case for clemency. In 2002, a three-judge panel on the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld his death sentence but in a rare move urged then-Governor Gray Davis to consider commuting the death sentence. The judges praised Tookie Williams for his "laudable efforts opposing gang violence" and his "good works and accomplishments since incarceration."

On Tuesday I had a chance to interview Stanley Tookie Williams from death row in San Quentin. He called us collect on a phone monitored by prison officials.

Stanley Tookie Williams, speaking from San Quentin death row.
AMY GOODMAN: In 1993, Williams's life took a dramatic turn when he agreed to record a videotaped message from death row supporting a truce between the Crips and the Bloods. The videotape was shown during a peace summit meeting attended by over 400 gang members.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Working together, we can put an end to this cycle that creates deep pain in the hearts of our mothers, our fathers, and our people, who have lost loved ones to this senseless violence.

AMY GOODMAN: After Tookie Williams addressed the Hands Across Watts gang peace summit in 1993, he became more involved in helping to keep young people out of gangs. With the help of his main advocate, Barbara Becnel, Williams soon began writing children's books and speaking with young people about the gang life. He also helped orchestrate truces between gangs.

While his court appeals have largely been exhausted, judges have publicly admitted there's a strong case for clemency. In 2002, a three-judge panel on the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld his death sentence but in a rare move urged then-Governor Gray Davis to consider commuting the death sentence. The judges praised Tookie Williams for his, quote, "laudable efforts opposing gang violence" and his, quote, "good works and accomplishments since incarceration."

On Tuesday, I had a chance to interview Stanley Tookie Williams, from death row in San Quentin. He called us collect on a phone monitored by prison officials.

AMY GOODMAN: Hello? Stanley Williams?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Yes, it is.

AMY GOODMAN: It's Amy Goodman from Democracy Now!

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Okay.

AMY GOODMAN: Thank you for joining us. I know you don't have much time, so I want to ask why you are petitioning the governor for executive clemency?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: I'm petitioning -- my attorneys are petitioning the governor because I am innocent, but primarily, they're trying to save my life so that, inevitably, I will be able to prove my innocence.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the crime that you were convicted of? Are you guilty of that crime?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: No, I am not culpable of those crimes. I have been stating that fact from the incipient, from the moment of my arrest. False arrest.

AMY GOODMAN: Why do you think the jury found you guilty?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Oh, it was quite easy. It was a paradigm of racism. We are talking about prosecutorial misconduct. We are talking about exclusion of exculpatory evidence. We are talking about I.A.C., which is ineffective assistance of counsel. We are talking about biased jury selection, which results in an all-white jury. We're talking about involuntary psychotherapic druggings, the misuse of jailhouse and government informants. And last, but not least –

TELEPHONE RECORDING: This call and your telephone number will be recorded and monitored.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: -- no -- not a shred of tangible evidence, no fingerprints, no crime scenes of bloody boot prints. They didn't match my boots, nor eyewitnesses. Even the shotgun shells found conveniently at each crime scene didn't match the shotgun shells that I owned.

AMY GOODMAN: Were you there that night?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: No, I wasn't. Everything was predicated on hearsay and circumstantial evidence.

AMY GOODMAN: Why do you believe the police arrested you?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Because of my past. Because of my history. I was the co-founder of the Crips. I was someone that, whenever anything happened pretty much in L.A. or in Compton, for instance -- as an example, in Compton, the Compton armory had been broken into and quite a few weapons were missing. Of course, they automatically assumed that I had something to do with it or I knew of someone who broke in there, and I was submitted -- I had to -- I was subjected to two lie detector tests.

AMY GOODMAN: And yet they still arrested you?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I have been picked up for many strange cases. Some -- I even had Johnnie Cochran had to represent me for a attempted robbery on two individuals who, in a sense, were broker than I was; they were more destitute than I was, but yet, still, I attempted to rob them.

AMY GOODMAN: Laura Owens, the stepmother of U.S. Army veteran, Albert Owens, one of the four people --

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: The stepmother.

AMY GOODMAN: The stepmother says that you're a cold-blooded murderer. They want to sweep it under the rug. Your response?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I forgive her for her misquotes, because, for one thing, I understand how the prosecutors and the A.G.s, the attorney generals, have a tendency to fill their heads with the unilateral version of the truth. The fact of the matter is is that she's all this time, all throughout all these years, I guarantee you that her and other people have not delved into every shred of evidence, all of the transcripts, all of the appeals. She has a unilateral version of what has taken place, so, quite naturally, she is going to favor the prosecutor. But I guarantee you, if she and others were to take the time and to read the transcripts and to view everything with an objective mind, I guarantee you that the results and their thinking would be entirely different. And plus, the fact of the matter is, is that I understand her grief. I express regret for anyone who has lost a loved one. Any victim.

AMY GOODMAN: Stanley Williams, can you describe where we're talking to you right now?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, I am on San Quentin's death row. I'm in a cell that's probably nine by four or nine by five feet – or foot, rather. And there's a steel sink. There's a steel toilet. There's a steel bunk. There's a steel shelf. There's a light fixture. And on the bars is -- on the outside of the bars is a mesh fence.

AMY GOODMAN: You have been at San Quentin for more than half your life?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes. Unfortunately so. Quite pathetic.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about your time there? Can you talk about the beginning, the years in solitary confinement and what you've done?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, I can quite -- I can easily demythologize the thought that, well, a person, when he goes to prison, of course, they'll change. They're locked up. That's not so, because I was incorrigible from the moment I got here all the way up to 1988, so that debunks that theory. And once I was in solitary confinement, it provided me with the isolated moments to reflect on my past and to dwell upon something greater, something better than involving myself in thuggery and criminality. It had to be more to life than that. It had to be more than the madness that was disseminating throughout this entire prison.

AMY GOODMAN: And so, when do you feel like you started to change?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Between the years of 1988 to 1994, and it's a continuous -- it's an incessant reality for me. My redemptive transition began in solitary confinement, and unlike other people who express their experiences of an epiphany or a satori, I never experienced anything of that ilk. Mine -- that wouldn't have been enough. I often tell people that I didn't have a 360-degree turnaround; I had a 720-degree turnaround. It took me twice as much. Just one spin around wouldn't have done it. I was that messed up, that lost, that mentacided, brainwashed. So, I was able to gradually in a piecemeal fashion change my life slowly but surely through education, through edification, through spiritual cultivation, battling my demons. And eventually, that led to me embracing redemption.

AMY GOODMAN: And what does embracing redemption mean? Can you talk about your writing? Can you talk about what you have done?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, my interpretation of redemption, it differs from the theological or the academical rendition. I believe that my redemption symbolizes the end of a bad beginning and a new start. It goes beyond, in a sense of being liberated from one's sins or atonement in itself. I feel that my redemption mostly or primarily encompasses the ability to reach out to others. I call it -- when people say spirituality, I break it down as a spirit act, with "spirit" being the [inaudible] of the soul, the id, etc., etc., and the "uality" aspect of it being an act, a performance, a deed. So, we're talking about a spirit act, a spirit act towards helping other people, which are primarily youths in my case.

AMY GOODMAN: And what is the message that you are trying to send? Who are you talking to among the youth in this country?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: I'm talking to any youth who are considered to be or deemed to be at-risk or even hinting around being a thug or a criminal of any type of genre. I mostly propagate education and the need for it, because to me, that is the terra firma in which any human being must stand in order to survive in this country or to survive anywhere in the world, in dealing, you know, with every aspect of civilization, every aspect of surviving. Education is very important. It took me all of these years to discern that, and now I do.

AMY GOODMAN: Stanley Williams, can you talk about why you started the Crips?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, I stated it in my memoir, Blue Rage, Black Redemption, that we started out -- at least my intent was to, in a sense, address all of the so-called neighboring gangs in the area and to put, in a sense -- I thought I can cleanse the neighborhood of all these, you know, marauding gangs. But I was totally wrong. And eventually, we morphed into the monster we were addressing.

AMY GOODMAN: In what way?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, we became a gang. We became exactly what I had odium for, which were gangs, street gangs. I mean, there were -- they became a pest. They were a pest. Every time I looked up, my friends were being preyed upon. And when I came from camp, I decided to create something that would deal with them, to put them in their place. I mean, it's -- it's really ironic, because we did too good of a job, and we morphed into what we were fighting, what we were battling against.

AMY GOODMAN: Stanley Williams, your critics say you might be running the Crips from death row. What is your response to that?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, I say that whomever says that, whatever institution or singular person says that, that you must take that and society must take that with a grain of salt. I say that, because of the simple fact that I have documentation in which -- if you know my editors of the books, of my children's books, Ms. Barbara Becnel, she can forward you or email you the chronicles that I received from the Institutional Classification Committee that commended me on my positive program over the last ten years, and that's dated on August 5, 2004. So, that in a sense contradicts anything that anyone is saying. This -- what they're saying, these lies, these spurious allegations that these people are throwing out there are just something that they're putting out there in order to exacerbate, to expedite my execution. I mean, any time that they can make it appear as though I'm still a monster, then society will say, 'Well, kill him.' It facilitates my death. Common sense. That's what it does. That's what these people have been trying to do for the last five years with impetus. This is what they have been doing.

AMY GOODMAN: Stanley Williams, what are you most proud of in your life?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Other than writing the children's books and my memoir, my redemption and my change. I never thought, ever, that I would be able to change because of the simple fact --

TELEPHONE RECORDING: You have 120 seconds left on this call.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Thuggery was all I knew. I lived it. I breathed it. Being a Crip was all I knew. I thought there was nothing else. I dreaded life after Cripping. I dreaded that. But I say to any individual who is in a gang that if you have enough courage to get into a gang, you should have equally enough or even more to get out of it.

AMY GOODMAN: As you can hear, we just have a minute to go, unless you can call us back. What message do you want people in this country to hear right now? And the governor, if you were meeting with him yourself?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, once again, I must say that I am innocent, and I understand that it's difficult for a person who is poor, a person who has a criminous background, as I have --

TELEPHONE RECORDING: You have 60 seconds left on this call.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: -- a person who is black, a person who is minority. It is very, very difficult for an individual to obtain justice, as I have seen. It's very difficult. And I feel that justice should not be predicated on a person's creed or color or race or social strata or intellectual prowess or any of that.

AMY GOODMAN: Could you call us back?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: I will try. And if I do, I only have a few minutes.

AMY GOODMAN: We'd appreciate that.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Okay. Will do.

AMY GOODMAN: Thank you very much.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: You're welcome.

AMY GOODMAN: Stanley Tookie Williams speaking to us from death row in San Quentin in a rare extended interview. When we come back, he calls us back.

[break]

AMY GOODMAN: We return now to our rare interview with Stanley Tookie Williams from death row in San Quentin, California. He is scheduled to die on December 13th. I reached him on the phone last night. We had to record the interview in two parts because the prison cuts off each conversation after 15 minutes.

AMY GOODMAN: Stanley Williams?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Yes, it is.

AMY GOODMAN: Thank you for rejoining us.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Oh, well, as long as I can.

AMY GOODMAN: Where did you get the nickname Tookie?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: That is not a nickname. That is my middle name. My mother gave me that. In fact, that was my father's middle name, as well. And I believe it's my grandfather's middle name. But I know it's my father's, for a fact. Stanley Tookie Williams III.

AMY GOODMAN: December 13 is just two weeks away from this conversation.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Yes, it is.

AMY GOODMAN: What are your thoughts facing your death?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: I have none. In other words, I continue to live my life day by day, or shall I say, minute by minute, hour by hour, and day by day, as I have been doing since my redemption. It has nothing to do with a cavalier attitude. It has nothing to do with machismo or manhood or some pseudo code of the streets, which I formerly used. It has to do with my faith in God and my redemption. That's why I can sit here and talk to you just as calmly or any of the other journalists who have crossed my path. I don't fear this type of stuff. I'm at peace. And when you're – and when you're, in a sense –

TELEPHONE RECORDING: This call and your telephone number will be recorded and monitored.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: And when you maintain this sense of peace and you live by truth, by integrity, these things don't bother me. It doesn't. I have been experiencing moribund type experiences most of my life. I could have died many a times. I could have died when I was shot. I could have died when I was shot at by the police and rival gang members. There were many opportunities for me to die. Of course, I don't want to die. I mean, after my redemption I have what I consider to be a joie de vivre, so, you know, I have an enjoyment, a love for life. So that's why I can calmly sit here and speak to you or anyone else with peace in my heart and peace in my mind. I don't get rattled. Nothing can rattle me. Nothing will ever rattle me. I have been rattled the majority of my life.

AMY GOODMAN: I asked you what you are most proud of in your life. What do you most regret?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Creating the Crips. That is my – I rue that more than anything.

AMY GOODMAN: You managed to strike a peace accord. How did you maneuver that between the Crips and the Bloods?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, the fact that a person such as me, of my ilk, who deemed the opposing gang as an eternal enemy, it wasn't hard for people to believe me, because they knew where I stood. There were no clandestine or latent messages. Everybody knew where I stood. And for me to come out and say that what we were doing was wrong, it was believable. That's why people didn't – or at least the gang members didn't discredit my propensity and my alacrity for peace. That's why I was embraced with sincerity by those who I knew and those I didn't know on both sides of the fence.

AMY GOODMAN: Stanley Williams, what does it mean to have the level of support that you have right now?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: It's God-inspiring to me, awe-inspiring. It's excellent. I'm exceptionally grateful. I never expected it. The majority of my life, I have fought, especially in here, alone. Even – I even had to fight against the attorneys, the incompetent attorneys, appeal attorneys, appellate attorneys, rather, that I had representing me, who were not qualified. I had one attorney who was an employment litigator, job litigator, you know, on the federal level, and she had been on that for like three years, and this woman was coming to represent me for four murders?

Then they had a guy that represented me. He only represented me for six months, because after that, he had to end up leaving and going to Ireland somewhere. Now, he knew prior to that that he had an engagement, but yet he took the case, allowing me to think that he was going to be permanent. He said he was going to be permanent. But yet, still, he left within six months. As a matter of fact, it was five-and-a-half months in which he left.

So, these are the things – these are the type of representations that I was getting, attorneys who would file a brief, a 27-page or 45-page brief with over 120 typos in it, and telling me that, 'Oh, well, you know, the judge wouldn't – it doesn't matter. They won't look at that.' Of course, they'll look at that. And they'll use that against me, not her, me.

AMY GOODMAN: What are your thoughts on the death penalty, in general?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: The death penalty, it's not a system of justice, it is a system of – a so-called system of justice that perpetuates a, shall I say, a vindictive type of response, a vigilante type of aura upon it. We're talking about something that is barbaric. We're talking about something that – it doesn't deter anything. I mean, if it did, then it wouldn't be so many – especially in California, we're talking about over 650 individuals on death row. And if it was a deterrent, this place wouldn't be filled like this. And it's an expensive ordeal that – the money, as you know, the monetary means comes out of the taxpayers' pocket.

And for anyone to think that murder can be resolved by murdering, it's ridiculous. I mean, we look at all of the wars that we have throughout other countries and other nations, and all it does is – this violence, all it does is engender violence. There seems to be no end, but a continuous cycle, an incessant process of blood and gore that doesn't end. And through violence, you can't possibly obtain peace. You can, in a sense, occupy a belief of peace; in other words, through this mechanism of violence, you – it appears that because there is a standing army or standing police that is used in brutality or violence or a system that uses brutality or violence that that is going to totally eliminate or stop criminous behavior or criminous minds or killings or what have you, but it doesn't.

AMY GOODMAN: Stanley Williams –

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: There has to be another way.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you ever imagine yourself being free?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: In my dreams. In my dreams I've envisioned my liberation many a times. As a matter of fact, I was telling an individual the other day that in my dreams, whenever I run into some albatross or some type of dilemma, I seem to float away from it. And in my mind, that is a sense of freedom. That is a sense of avoiding, eschewing or shunning any type of madness.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you know how the state plans to kill you?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, if I don't, I'd have to be living in a cave somewhere.

AMY GOODMAN: How will they do it?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, through, you know, the intravenous use of needles and things of that nature.

AMY GOODMAN: Are they preparing you for this now?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Preparing me?

AMY GOODMAN: Yes.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, yes. I'm in a different area. I used to be in East block, and now I'm in North 6. So, yes, yes, they are, of course. In their minds, it's a done deal.

AMY GOODMAN: And in your mind?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: I'm sure they're looking forward to it, because they have come out propagating that I should be executed. Isn't that amazing? This is unprecedented for the C.D.C. or San Quentin prison – and/or San Quentin prison to come out against an individual; it's never been done before in the history of this institution, or the history of C.D.C. But yet, they have come out.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain what you mean?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, they have – you find there are individuals they have, like for instance, the San Quentin spokesperson, he spoke out. He said – even on 60 Minutes, they did a program about me, and he stated that I deserved to be executed. Now, I believe that's taking your job too far. And at one time, they had a lot of spurious allegations on the C.D.C. website, which they had to take off, because the former San Quentin warden, Vasquez, he stated that San Quentin appears to be trying to promote death by getting into this. They're supposed to be impartial. Their job is only to execute me, not to exacerbate by drumming up the need, the protests, or the remonstration for me to be executed, but that's what they have been doing. I'm the only human being that's ever been on death row that they have ever put forth effort to execute.

AMY GOODMAN: If the Governor –

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Unprecedented.

AMY GOODMAN: If the Governor, if Governor Schwarzenegger, grants you executive clemency, what will you do? What are your plans? What do you want to do?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: There's so many things. I'm glad – excellent question. I'm glad you asked that. The thing is, recently, I had a visit with Bruce Gordon. He is the President and C.E.O. of the NAACP. I had a visit with him on the 25th, Friday, and we have established a partnership to create a violence prevention curriculum for at-risk youth throughout America, and each of the chapters of NAACP are implementing this program. And he is going around the country promoting this and apprising people. So I'm not sitting back on my laurels, believe me.

I have things to do. I have books that I haven't even completed that I'm still working on. As a matter of fact, I'm working on Thoughts of Thunder. It's a compilation of essays on a variety of topics. I'm working on a female gang that's called Female Gangs: The Forgotten Gender, and a few other books. I'm doing some other children's books, as well. So, believe me, I would be working on this, and my attorneys, you know, will be helping me strive to inevitably prove my innocence.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you think you could be granted a new trial?

TELEPHONE RECORDING: You have 120 seconds left on this call.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, that's dealing in hypotheticals, and I don't deal with hypotheticals. I can only say that I pray that I get a new trial. I pray that I get whatever is necessary to spare my life, so that I can continue to strive in order to prove my innocence.

AMY GOODMAN: And if you still spent the rest of your life in jail, do you think it would be worth being spared the death penalty?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Oh, well, of course. I mean, where there's life, there's the ability to continuously strive to do whatever your purpose is or goal is in life. So, yes, if I'm alive, I can always strive forward to prove my innocence, regardless of how long it takes, even up to the last second of my life, and I'm 100 or whatever. You know what I mean? So, –

TELEPHONE RECORDING: You have 60 seconds left on this call.

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: As I stated earlier in the conversation, that I have joie de vivre. So with this love of life, I have it. I assume that was forged down to me from my ancestors. So –

AMY GOODMAN: Well, in these last seconds that we have, they're yours. What do you have to say?

STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: Well, I want to thank you for allowing me to be able to express my thoughts and feelings, and that as long as I have breath, I will continue to do what I can to proliferate a positive message throughout this country and abroad to youths everywhere, of all colors or gender and geographical area, and I will continue to do what I can to help. I want to be a part of the – you know, the solution.

AMY GOODMAN: With that, the phone cut off. Stanley Tookie Williams had his allotted 15-minute phone call from San Quentin prison, from his cell. He is scheduled to die on December 13. On December 8, his defense team will meet with the Governor of California, Schwarzenegger, for him to consider clemency for Stanley Tookie Williams. Today, around the world there are actions, vigils, protests in support of Stanley Williams.

southernelle25

12-14-2005, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
AKA_Monet, your "paranoia" is on target.

I agree with a lot of what you said. And woe is the day when someone does a little DNA digging and finds out that Williams is completely and utterly innocent. :eek: They would need to bring home all of the troops from Iraq to handle what would happen. :(

Unfortunately, they would probably just burn down parts of their own neighborhoods. That wouldn't solve anything.