NPC Quota, Release Figures and Quota Additions (Updated 8/7/2007)

[PenguinTrax]

How Quota is set

There are a couple different methods in the NPC book. Now, these are NPC recommendations but it's not a RULE or LAW that these methods have to be used.

#1: Quota shall equal the number of women accepting at least one invitation to the first or second round of invitational events divided by the number of chapters. For example:

Registered PNM 350
Accepting first invitational event 300
Number of NPC groups 6
300 div 6 - 50 quota
Accepting second invitational 279
270 div 6 = 45

#2 (This method is used when there are at least 3 invitational rounds including preference.)

Quota equals the number of women registering and attending the first membership recruitment function, multiplied by the average percent of women pledged during he last three years divided by the number of chapters.

Registered PNM 350
Number of NPC groups 6
Average % of women pledged last 3 years 72%
(1987 - 70%, 1988 - 74%, 1989 - 72%)
Number attending the membership recruitment function 325
325 x 72% = 234
234 div 6 = 39 quota.

Release Figures

NPC endorses a formula which College Panhellenics may use in recommending the number of invitations a fraternity chapter should issue to insure their own membership recruiting success as well as to provide an opportunity to pledge the greatest number of women. The number (percentage) of PNMs that are invited back by each chapter is derived from a complex formula based on several years' worth of statistical data such as: number of invitation extended versus number accepted, number accepting bids versus number completing recruitment events, etc.

For more competitive campuses, this could mean that some chapters will be required to release 50% or more of the PNMs when the invitational rounds begin. As a result, it is strongly recommended that PNMs continue through the recruitment process, even if the invitations they receive appear to be, at first, less desirable. As has been stated several times before, opinions change during the week. If, at the time of Preference round, a PNM still does not have a strong connection to one or more groups, they can decline to sign their Membership Binding Agreement Card.

Quota Additions

NPC continues to recommend that bids be matched to Quota only. It is recognized, however, that unusual campus conditions may indicate that some women whose bids fail to match in the normal bid matching process may be placed even if this puts a chapter over Quota.

Because most unmatched bids are a direct result of a chapter issuing more inivitations to preference events than it has a reasonable expectation to offer bids, Panhellenics using Quota Additions must encourage collegiate chapters to carefully observe the recommended release numbers.

The following procedures should be followed if women whose bids did not match in the normal course of bid matching must be placed in fraternity chapters that have already reached Quota.

1. No College Panhellenic may adopt this Quota Addtions procedure unless there is compliance with the College Panhellenics Committee's recommendation for release figures. These release figures are based on a three year statistical study as described on pages 85 and 86 of the Manual of Information.

2. The woman will be matched to the fraternity chapter she has listed on her Membership Recruitment Acceptance which is the smallest in chapter size, as long as her name appears on that chapter's preferential bid list, and that by matching her there that group does not exceed Quota by more than 5%.

3. This procedure shall never include a woman who lists an intentional single preference on her preference Membership Recruitment Acceptance or one who as failed to accept or attend any membership recruitment event for which there was room in her membership recruitment schedule.

4. No group may exceed quota by more than 5% of Quota. If 5% is a fractional number, the number shall be rounded up to the next whole number.

5. Quota Additions do not raise or increase the number of Quota and this process is only used during the bid-matching process itself. Quota Additions do not create Quota vacancies under any circumstances. Quota Additions are never involved in Continous Open Bidding.

Example: Quota is 50

Alpha Chapter - 75 members, pledged 50
5% addtion - 3
Total size: 128

Beta Chapter - 80 members, pledged 50
Total size: 130

[chantillylace55]

i remember after rush this year when everyone was talking about who made quota etc. we were told we made quota and had the biggest pledge class (42 girls). my roommate was telling me that her sorority (kkg) had also made quota and they took in 38 new members, while alpha phi had also "made quota" with 40 new pledges - is this REALLY confusing to anyone else?! is it possible for every chapter to have a differnt quota? i remember hearing that gamma phi was allowed to take in the most new members because we are the biggest sorority on campus - but this just DOES NOT make sense to me?! that would make it seem like they are trying to keep the chapters at certain sizes and potentially inhibiting their ability to grow? if you can offer any kind of explaination i would b ever so grateful!
xoxo
chantillylace

[PenguinTrax]

Quota is the same for all chapters. It could be that:

a) chapters were allowed to take Quota Additions

or

b) the chapter was under campus total and extended additional bids right after formal recruitment to to reach total, thereby enlarging the pledge class

[aephi alum]

I'm a little confused about quota additions. Please correct any missteps that I may make...

Let's say you have 3 sororities. 60 women attend preference parties. That means quota is 60 / 3 = 20.

Before recruitment started, sorority A had 75 sisters, B had 60, and C had 45.

Now let's say that sororities A and B each make quota, while sorority C only matches with 15 women. That means 5 women are bidless after "normal" bid matching. Let's assume that each of these 5 women listed A and B on her pref card, in some order - no intentional single preferences.

Sororities A and B are now allowed to accept quota additions. 5% of 20 is 1, so each sorority may bid 1 more PNM. One woman will be matched to B (since it's smaller), then one woman will be matched to A.

So, what determines which of the 5 goes to B, which goes to A, and which three go bidless? Does B get whichever of the 5 was ranked highest on B's second bid list, then A gets whichever of the 4 remaining women was ranked highest on their list?

Is it then possible that you could have a PNM who loved B but matched to A during "normal" bid matching, while a PNM who loved A got matched to B as a quota addition?

Should I maybe try to figure out something easier instead, like quantum physics?? :)

[SoCalGirl]

If I'm understanding correctly. In AEPhiAlum's example, Sorority B would get and additional girl. Sorority A would only get quota. Sorority C would only have the 15. Four girls would go bidless.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by aephi alum

So, what determines which of the 5 goes to B, which goes to A, and which three go bidless? Does B get whichever of the 5 was ranked highest on B's second bid list, then A gets whichever of the 4 remaining women was ranked highest on their list?


Out of the five women, they would be divided into two piles: Those who ranked A as #1, and those who ranked B as #1. Out of the ones who ranked A #1, they would get whomever was highest on their bid list, and the same would happen for B.

As in normal matching, the PNM's preference takes priority over the sorority's preference.

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by DeltaBetaBaby
Out of the five women, they would be divided into two piles: Those who ranked A as #1, and those who ranked B as #1. Out of the ones who ranked A #1, they would get whomever was highest on their bid list, and the same would happen for B.

As in normal matching, the PNM's preference takes priority over the sorority's preference.

That kind of makes sense... but does that then mean that someone lower on, say, A's bid list could get matched to A, while someone higher on A's list could get matched to B even if she listed A first?

To build on my previous example: Susie and Jenny each attend pref parties at sororities A and B. Each of them lists A, then B, on her pref card. Susie is, say, #16 on both A's and B's second bid lists; Jenny is #17 on both groups' second bid lists.

During "normal" bid matching, A makes quota before getting to Susie. Her second choice, B, is used, and she becomes the twentieth and last person to match to B. Jenny is bidless because both of her choices are full to quota.

Following what DeltaBetaBaby said, Jenny would be matched to A because she is the highest-ranked person on A's bid list who ranked A first and didn't match via "normal" bid matching, even though she is lower on A's list than Susie was.

Am I understanding this correctly? :confused: Or am I just overanalyzing this? :)

[DeltaBetaBaby]

You are correct, AA. The computer matching does its thing, then additions are done later by hand. That is why it is done, instead of just upping quota.

[AOII_LB93]

So my question is, if all houses on campus hit quota of 35- 40 except one, and that one house only had 17 on their bid list, and then of those 17, 8 choose to go to that house....how is that fair when all 3 pref parties are full? It throws the system so out of whack that of the 7 houses on the campus I advise, 6 of them are at 60+ members (with ceiling at 60) and one house is at 26.

Just wondering....seen it happen 2 years in a row on my campus.
I think it gets crazy sometimes.

[AlphaSigLana]

This is more confusing than advanced alegbra:confused:

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by AOII_LB93
So my question is, if all houses on campus hit quota of 35- 40 except one, and that one house only had 17 on their bid list, and then of those 17, 8 choose to go to that house....how is that fair when all 3 pref parties are full? It throws the system so out of whack that of the 7 houses on the campus I advise, 6 of them are at 60+ members (with ceiling at 60) and one house is at 26.

Just wondering....seen it happen 2 years in a row on my campus.
I think it gets crazy sometimes.

I don't understand what you mean. If a chapter has 3 full pref parties, and quota is 35, they should have at least 105 women on their bid list.

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by DeltaBetaBaby
I don't understand what you mean. If a chapter has 3 full pref parties, and quota is 35, they should have at least 105 women on their bid list.

Yes, but that still doesn't mean they'll make quota. The chapter has, say, 105 women at their pref parties. Out of that 105, 17 match to them. The remaining 88 could either (a) match to other sororities, (b) suicide another sorority and not receive a bid, or (c) have decided not to sign their pref cards. So just because you have full pref parties doesn't mean you'll make, or even get near, quota.

[AOII_LB93]

Precisely what I mean AEPhi....and as far as I know, suiciding is being discouraged on my campus, which I personally disagree with, because if you feel that strongly that you wouldn't even consider another house, then you should suicide and not give other houses "false hopes."

[Tom Earp]

If you will pardon me saying, I never understood a word of this thread so far!

I feel that the rules are BS as at my School, there are 3 Soroitys and will not lat another one on! The Soroitys are not up to figures or what ever!

Heck, this is a School of 6,500 + and there are not enuff girls to join!

What Crapola!

Maybe those who want to join want to join a Soroity of a different nature or name?

When there are 3 out of how many ( 29 ) PHC that maybe not all want to join one of the three!?

Live or die by what you do to get membership! The Fraternitys do! We have been on the down and outs, but this Sem. we are really looking up!


This National NPC is holding back the advancement of Soroitys! Do something about it!

Now back to regular programing!:cool:

[moe.ron]

My head hurt, I feel like I'm reading game theory.

[doubleblue&gold]

Quota and total are made to encorage a sronger greek system and aid individual groups. Otherwise, you might end up with only one group on campus that everyone belonged to. Usually Panhellenic will not invite another group on campus until the existing ones are strong and there are more women wanting to join than there are places available.

[lifesaver]

Agreed. Way confusing. But I am glad there are people outthere liek Barbara who do understand it and can explain it and enforce it. Kinda ironic dont you think? Its always been taught that men were better with math and algebra, and women were the verbal ones. I am stymied on this. I stand by ya'll gals on it, but am utterly confused. I will however print out this page for our new member educator when he is teaching on the greek systems and the inevitable question is asked, "how do we get more sororities on campus?" I'll have him throw this on an overhead, expain the differenceies, and let the thread and rule summation do the talking. It explains things far better than we EVER could...meaning, there are way more procedures in their system. Just because were all greek dont assume we operate under the same guidlines. I made that mistake when I joined. Just the way it is.

[madmax]

I still dont get it. On the KU outcome therad one sorority got qouta plus 10. Quota was 52 and they got 62. I thought you could only excede quota by 5% max. Whats the deal?

[33girl]

madmax - if they were under chapter total even after taking the quota for that rush, they can take more girls to get up to chapter total. If chapter total was 65 - and they had 3 sisters to start - they can take 62 pledges.

The 5% thing is for "quota additions" which are only usually used if there's something that guarantees all rushees get bids.

[Tom Earp]

Just one more example of DAISM!:o

[RockChalk]

Originally posted by madmax
I still dont get it. On the KU outcome therad one sorority got qouta plus 10. Quota was 52 and they got 62. I thought you could only excede quota by 5% max. Whats the deal? The deal is that the sorority that exceeded quota by so much was the second smallest sorority on our campus. Last fall, they had 108 members. Assuming 20 of them graduated in May, that left them with 88 going into formal rush. I believe total is 170 (but please don't take my word for it; all of my friends in sororities have graduated, so I'm kinda out of the loop). So, even with the 62 NMs, this sorority still has ~150 members - well below total.

IMHO, this worked out really well for everybody - 10 women got bids that might not have otherwise and this sorority is the largest it has been in years.

[madmax]

Originally posted by RockChalk
The deal is that the sorority that exceeded quota by so much was the second smallest sorority on our campus. Last fall, they had 108 members. Assuming 20 of them graduated in May, that left them with 88 going into formal rush. I believe total is 170 (but please don't take my word for it; all of my friends in sororities have graduated, so I'm kinda out of the loop). So, even with the 62 NMs, this sorority still has ~150 members - well below total.

IMHO, this worked out really well for everybody - 10 women got bids that might not have otherwise and this sorority is the largest it has been in years.

The whole thing doesn't make sense. If you can go over or under quota then what's the point? Just have total and take as many or as few pledges as you want up to total. The other thing that doesn't make sense is allowing sororities to go over total. Doesn't that defeate the purpose? You end up with some groups over total, some at total, some just under and some way under. Isn't that what you are trying to prevent?

[FuzzieAlum]

The only way to go over total is by taking quota in formal rush. Usually groups don't get too far over total that way. They aren't eligible to COB then, so they can't get any new members until the next formal rush.

Groups can of course get far under total by any system! I'm sure you know fraternities that are much smaller than the others on campus. Of course a group can go UNDER quota if people don't want to join them! It's not like fraternities always get as many pledges as they want with their system either!

[newsun]

Originally posted by madmax


The whole thing doesn't make sense. If you can go over or under quota then what's the point? Just have total and take as many or as few pledges as you want up to total. The other thing that doesn't make sense is allowing sororities to go over total. Doesn't that defeate the purpose? You end up with some groups over total, some at total, some just under and some way under. Isn't that what you are trying to prevent?

I totally agree that just having a total size (max size) would make a lot more sense. Straight forward, easy to understand, and even easier to follow.

[Glitter650]

I agree the whole quota thing doesn't really help to equalize the sororities on campus.... I mean think about it... at my school which has a small greek system quota this year was 18.. (HUGE FOR MY SCHOOL) My chapter got 7 women, AND since total at my school is 45 the other two sorors that DID reach quota STILL get to COB until they reach 45 girls AND even though if they reach that number they won't be allowed to rush in spring if they are still at 45 next fall they can go OVER house total and still take whatever quota is next fall...(as far as I understand, if I am wrong please explain) so the biggest chapters on campus can STILL grow... I don't see how it helps AT ALL !!!

[PenguinTrax]

Originally posted by newsun


I totally agree that just having a total size (max size) would make a lot more sense. Straight forward, easy to understand, and even easier to follow.

But the problem is that it leaves too many Potential Members unmatched. If you enforce a chapter size across the board, it could be that only 150 PNMs could find homes during recruitment, leaving another 1000 girls unmatched. Not fair to the girls or the system.

[newsun]

Originally posted by PnguinTrax


But the problem is that it leaves too many Potential Members unmatched. If you enforce a chapter size across the board, it could be that only 150 PNMs could find homes during recruitment, leaving another 1000 girls unmatched. Not fair to the girls or the system.

In this example, forcing a chapter size across the board is exactly why it would be fair to the unmatched women and the system. If a chapter size is enforced, it becomes very clear when there is real need to add another sorority on the campus!

Thus, the bigger chapters would NOT get bigger because they could only go to a max size. There would be simple rules, less dirty rushing, and all groups would TRULY be on the same playing field! Plus, when there is a lot of women unmatched, then it is clear that another sorority needs to be added.

[carnation]

They had something like that at Arkansas when I rushed...quota was different at each sorority and it was set by how many actual bed spaces each house had left. It left hundreds of girls unbid. Everyone knew that adding more sororities wouldn't work because the Greek system at Arkansas is quite old--several of the sororities have been there for more than a hundred years--and if the girls didn't get 1 of those 5, forget it, they weren't going Greek. That didn't help the big sororities, the small ones, or the PNMs. In the South at old-system campuses, it just won't work to say "if they can't pledge the Big 4 or 5, etc., then they'll just have to pledge XYZ!"

Because... it won't work and the Greek system will miss out on many outstanding women. I feel the pain of the smaller groups. It's just that I've watched rush in the South for 30 years and I've observed various attempts by Panhellenic to entice the rushees into pledging groups they wouldn't have considered before rush started. Honest to heaven, the only thing I have seen work is a huge increase in PNMs, like they've had the last few years at UGa and Auburn. That'll get a smaller sorority up to size faster than anything.

Let me note that I'm not saying that a sorority can't do anything to increase its numbers. What I'm saying is that I personally have never seen an attempt by Panhellenic to increase the smaller sororities' size be successful.

[FuzzieAlum]

Yes, having Panhellenic say to PNMs, "You should consider this other chapter you weren't considering," is like having a teacher say, "You have to be friends with Johnny because no one else is." It probably just means another person is going to beat up on poor Johnny.

[StarDust7381]

I too think that enforcing chapter sizes across the board would be the best. At my school quota this year was 41+ 5%. In theory its great for the girls but it also completely screws over the smallest houses. Our greek system is set so for Third Sets you visit 6 houses and then only 3 for preferences. if a girl does not get matched to her top 3 she could still get matched to her fourth choice. sometimes the PNM wouldn't want the 4th house but there are also cases where the PNM would have liked to have visited fourth house. Ceiling at my school is 120 and often women in those chapters do not always know her sisters. So if house XYZ got 45 girls (when 41 is quota), those extra 4 girls are often just a number to them. My chapter is a newer house on campus so it is harder for us to get as many women. My chapter got 7 outstanding women but I believe that if chapter sizes had been enforced we probably could have gotten more women. We are not one of the bottom ranked houses on campus but rather our PNMs at preferences were going to our house plus 2 other very large and popular houses on campus. Often, girls will rank an older, larger house on campus before a newer house because they feel it is a "safe bet". Its hard to win over as many girls being a newer house without a set reputation on campus while also being comparablely liked as the most popular houses on campus. Some houses on my campus don't even have to try to rush because thier name is enough to get members flocking to the door. On my campus(out of 15 chapters), among the most popular houses are KKG, AXO, DDD APhi, ADPi, DG (those are also the houses that my non AGD friends are in!). 4 other chapters have awesome women but they recruit different personalities than the ones above and us. During preferences, most of the girls we had coming through were chosing between mostly us and ADPi and APhi.

So i think a set quota system would have been beneficial to us.

Also, our panhel set a rule that says if any sorority loses any pledges during the year, they can rush to replace her whether they have at least 85 women returning for the next school year or not. I don't think that helps the smaller houses who need women.

[XOMichelle]

Although I believe that quota and cealing should be enforced (no hand matching bids to sororities when there are groups under total!), I think the best thing for greek offices to do is help the chapters that are not getting as many girls. Maybe give them a heads-up on fund raising opportunities, maybe ask them what their office could do to helpo the chapter, or help inspire greek unity. Personally, I thing a lot of times it's a group's reputation that can get them in trouble with the PNM's, and fostering a unified greek spirit, instead of letting the chapters compete against eachother would help everyone involved.
-M

[Lindz928]

It seems like things at my school are a little different.... We have a chapter total here (it's 175), but there are only 2 sororities under that. All of the other chapters (there are 11 total) are close to 200, or over 200, one is even about 250! Chapter total on my campus is basically a number that doesn't mean anything unless you are under it, and then it's just the goal to recruit to.

We also don't have anything that guarantees a PNM will get a bid. Some girls are always cross-cut, but this year there were only 15 who were, and quota was somewhere around 45 or 50.

Our system is a little screwed up, and it kind of sucks for smaller chapters. They also don't seem to care about certain chapters, because a couple aren't doing as well as they could be, yet they are inviting another sorority to campus starting next fall!!! I have to say I'm not too thrilled about the idea of doing that when all of the chapters are not doing as well as they should be.

[RACooper]

I have to disagree.... if you have 11 houses with membership totals that high you could easily support another house....

For perspective, your pledge class is roughly the size of the all the girls that got bid on my campus.

[Lindz928]

That's not exactly true.... This is one of the ways that our system is screwed up. If we add another chapter, it diesn't mean that every house will become smaller in numbers. It means that the biggest houses, the ones that are considered "the best" will keep pulling in the bigger numbers, and the smaller chapters will suffer even more. The big chapters at my school are more concerned with themselves than they are will the greek system as a whole sometimes.

There may have only been 40 or 50 girls who got bids on your campus, but I would be willing to bet that you have a smaller greek system and a smaller school. I go to a school that has 45,000 students, and we are trying to make the greek system bigger, which is why rrecruitment numbers are so important. My only issue is that I think we should make sure that all of the chapters we have now are strong enough and on the same level as the other chapters before we worry about inviting another chapter to colonize.

It is just very frustrating when you think that the greek system that is supposed to be supporting the chapters is more worried about expanding and getting bigger than they are about the chapters they have now.

[Angels&Arrows]

Lindz928... I had to reread your post.. I noticed that you said quota was around 45 or 50... I thought you meant regularly. So I was trying to figure out how a chapter could be significantly over 200, and as high as 250. However, I think you meant quota for Fall Formal Recruitment 2002?

That seems a bit lower then in the past for UTx. We have averaged 59 New Members/per rush over the last four recruitments, not including this past recruitment. However, for TX Alpha to be over 200 members/as well as other chapters that would mean UTx Greek system has a very high retention rate. Which is awesome!!! I will use Pi Phi as an example, only because I am more familiar and know the numbers... Not including this past recruitment if we lost no members, Spring 2002 we would have 234 members. To be over 200, our retention rate (as well as others on campus) would have to be near 90%. Which don't get me wrong.. is great.. I have just rarely seen it across the board in a Greek System!

Your retention rate is that high, I could not imagine not adding another chapter. The majority of the chapters would be way to big if the system continues to grow. How far under are the smaller chapters? and what do you think the other chapters or the system can do to help improve that?

Since you are actively involved, I would love to hear more.

[carnation]

I can't figure out how some campuses decide to more or less write off 1 or more smaller groups when deciding whether to add a group. Like they'll have 5 groups of 100 women each and then 2 that hover below 30. If they don't add another group, the big 5 can take more new members but for some reason, PH decides to bring in an 8th group and that kills off the 2 smaller groups. I couldn't tell you how many times I've seen it happen--like PH privately decided,"Those 2 are as good as dead anyway, let's just move on."

:confused:

[breathesgelatin]

ahhhh!! carnation, I SOOO agree. I don't understand why some schools have almost every group at or near quota, and many women not receiving bids, and WON'T add a group, and then some schools have the problem you described--adding a group when some chapters are already in trouble! It seems to me the latter group should work on improving overall Greek image and unity, not expanding, while the first should try to expand and diversify the Greek system while still remaining exclusive!

[Angels&Arrows]

I think that the Greek Community should pull together and help the smaller chapters. However, (only speaking for southern Greek Systems)... I have noticed that once a chapter has a stigma of being small or the fall back chapter it is hard to pull out of that...

Yes, if the system pulled together and the PNMs would join those chapters, than everyone would be equally strong. However, that does not happen, many PNMs would rather be GDI than join the marked group(s).

Does that mean a school should not bring in a new group that has the potential to succeed? Look at Delta Zeta at UF... There are a few chapters at UF that are under total. Delta Zeta brought out 500 PNMs?... That says something... Why aren't those 500 PNMs trying to fill up the chapters that have room?

I understand that the Greek Community opened their arms to DZ... Maybe chapters feel they have opened their arms to the other chapters and no longer have the interest in helping them? If this goes on at UF.. then I am sure it is an issue on other campuses.

Should PNMs go without a home? Or current chapters become as large as 250-300 members just because you can not bring an additional chapter in until all chapters are at total?

I hope what I am saying makes some kind of sense... I am in a rush to get my daughter to school and then I have class...

Discuss... :D

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by carnation
I can't figure out how some campuses decide to more or less write off 1 or more smaller groups when deciding whether to add a group. Like they'll have 5 groups of 100 women each and then 2 that hover below 30. If they don't add another group, the big 5 can take more new members but for some reason, PH decides to bring in an 8th group and that kills off the 2 smaller groups. I couldn't tell you how many times I've seen it happen--like PH privately decided,"Those 2 are as good as dead anyway, let's just move on."

:confused:

This almost happened at my school. 4 out of 5 groups were over total (80), but AEPhi had just been colonized around a year earlier, and we only had about 25 members. The Panhel president really wanted to open the school for expansion, on the grounds that there were a lot of women not receiving bids. She announced this out of the blue at a Panhel meeting one day (I was AEPhi's Panhel rep at the time) and my jaw just hit the floor. We fought the expansion and won - bringing on a new sorority at that time would have destroyed my chapter.

[Lindz928]

Carnation, you put perfectly into words what I was thinking. It is VERY frustrating for me. I am our chapter's panhellenic delegate, so I see what is going on and I don't know if there is anything my chapter can do about it. The new chapter was supposed to come to campus this past fall recruitment, but the numbers were so low last year (2001), that it was decided in panhel to put it off until we could see how this year's numbers were. And this is what I remember them saying at the panhel mtng that decided this.... We will invite the new chapter pending next year's (2002) recruitment numbers, and we will revote on whether we think the other chapter should be invited based on those numbers. Well, we never revoted, because I know my chapter would have voted no.

I would really like to know what my chapter could do about this, or if there is anything that we can do. AEPhi, what you said almost happened to your chapter is exactly what I am worried about. While our greek system might be bigger, it is relatively the same. Chapter total at my campus is 175, and quota for the chapters in recruitment every year is usually somewhere around 50. My chapter has been making huge improvements in the last couple of years, and I want to see that continue. I know that if we have the support of the rest of panhel on our campus, we can become just as strong or stronger than the other chapters that are here. But, just like Carnation said, I feel almost like we have been written off by those in charge. They say they support us, but they seem to do nothing to show it.

I may be completely off in what is going on, and I may be overreacting, but I don't think so. If someone has any advise, please let me know. Thanks alot!!

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Lindz928
That's not exactly true.... This is one of the ways that our system is screwed up. If we add another chapter, it diesn't mean that every house will become smaller in numbers. It means that the biggest houses, the ones that are considered "the best" will keep pulling in the bigger numbers, and the smaller chapters will suffer even more. The big chapters at my school are more concerned with themselves than they are will the greek system as a whole sometimes.

There may have only been 40 or 50 girls who got bids on your campus, but I would be willing to bet that you have a smaller greek system and a smaller school. I go to a school that has 45,000 students, and we are trying to make the greek system bigger, which is why rrecruitment numbers are so important. My only issue is that I think we should make sure that all of the chapters we have now are strong enough and on the same level as the other chapters before we worry about inviting another chapter to colonize.

It is just very frustrating when you think that the greek system that is supposed to be supporting the chapters is more worried about expanding and getting bigger than they are about the chapters they have now.

Well for one our school is a lot larger than yours.... grads/under-grads = 73,000 ish. If you have 11 chapters and each pulls in roughly 40-50 girls (if thats quota), then with 12 chapters quota would be around 35-45... I don't see that as a significant impact. Finally, if your chapter is strong in sisterhood and has those numbers, who cares what the other houses do? Just don't get caught in the numbers game.... quality before quantity.... if you think of a PNM in terms of how many girls that would give you before what you think the PNM will give to the chapter you got the wrong focus.

[oceanphi01]

Yes, it does depend on the amount of women that go through formal recruitment. It also depends on how many COB's you give out throughout the semester to get to total. That's the only way I can see anyone going above the quota set for formal recruitment.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by Angels&Arrows
I think that the Greek Community should pull together and help the smaller chapters. However, (only speaking for southern Greek Systems)... I have noticed that once a chapter has a stigma of being small or the fall back chapter it is hard to pull out of that...


IMHO, Angels&Arrows has summed up the entire Greek system in this paragraph. I was also (over-)involved with Panhel, and it's darn near impossible for a small group to go big, unless they recolonize or (and this has happened!) pledge a field hockey team or the sort!

No matter how hard Panhel tries to help the smaller chapters, it can't be done at the expense of your own - and once the pnm gets the idea that ABC is desirable and XYZ isn't, it's awfully hard to change her mind.

The only way I've seen it work is when, after formal rush, a member of ABC (who is at quota/total) has a friend who didn't rush and is panhellencally minded enough to say to her non-Greek friend, "You know, we're not taking anyone else this year - but why don't you check out XYZ or PQR? The important thing is being a Greek, especially with Greek Week around the corner!" This is how TRUE Panhellenic Recruitment is supposed to work, isn't it?

honeychile

[33girl]

Originally posted by honeychile
The only way I've seen it work is when, after formal rush, a member of ABC (who is at quota/total) has a friend who didn't rush and is panhellencally minded enough to say to her non-Greek friend, "You know, we're not taking anyone else this year - but why don't you check out XYZ or PQR? The important thing is being a Greek, especially with Greek Week around the corner!" This is how TRUE Panhellenic Recruitment is supposed to work, isn't it?

honeychile

Heck, I've done this even when my group WASN'T at total. I know some women who are great, but would not be a good fit for my group. Why talk someone into pledging your org who is going to hate it, just so you can get the numbers? It would be nice if everyone could stop focusing on the almighty quota/total and concentrate on trying to give the rushees the best Greek experience.

[FuzzieAlum]

OK, here's a question for those of you who really know their green books. If chapters close or are added to a campus, how does that affect release numbers for the remaining groups?

[MSKKG]

I don't know anything about a green book, but in the middle of 2001 recruitment at the University of South Carolina, the Theta chapter decided to relinquish its charter. I'm not sure about the other groups, but the Kappas were allowed to invite back a number larger than was previously set. What a mess--we had to basically go through the whole list to see who was eligible to be invited back!

Who knows what the numbers would have been had the Theta chapter relinquished its charter before recruitment. What a sad day when any chapter closes!

Also, I think USC is considering adding another sorority in 2004. Not everyone is at total or at quota--I don't like the idea. This new group might be at a disadvantage since most of the groups will be in a house by then. I could go on and on about the Greek Life office at USC, but I better not!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
OK, here's a question for those of you who really know their green books. If chapters close or are added to a campus, how does that affect release numbers for the remaining groups?

AFAIK,

If you look at how release figures are calculated, you can see that they are based on number of PNMs, number of chapters, and percent return rates in previous years.

So, if one more or one fewer chapter is participating in recruitment, the new number of chapters is used in place of the old one.

Of course, in the event of a PHC colonization, the new colony generally does not participate in recruitment its first year (except an informational during the first round), so it would not affect things in that case.

[fsu24DZ]

~*DZ*~ Brought Together to be Sisters By Heart ~*DZ*~

[vandy_violet]

Has anyone else heard of a "sophomore bonus"? We used to have it and are getting rid of it for next year. I rushed as a sophomore but didn't know about it until after, but basically you can have freshmen girls up to quota, and then a certain number of additional sophomores if you want. It has to do with the fact that we have an old Southern system and 99% of girls are placed as freshmen.

[MTSUGURL]

OUCH. My head hurts after reading this thread...

[SparkliiQTMTSU]

Originally posted by MTSUGURL
OUCH. My head hurts after reading this thread...


I hear ya on that one!!
Nichole

[ilovetheviolets]

i'm going to attempt to reply to this...

when you hand in your bid-list it is ranked, that way if a girl is "with-in" quota she will get a bid, esp. if she puts them first on her list. the way a girl gets her second choice is if she was "with-in" quota of the second group on her list and not the first one.

so if i say my first choice is ABC
my second choice is XYZ

and i am in quota of XYZ and not ABC i will get XYZ...this is esp. if everyone who is in ABC's quota but ABC first (therefor not giving those out of quota a chance to move up a spot).

does this make sense at all??
i hope so
greek love
violets

[Tom Earp]

From an IFC / Guy point of View, Jeeze What a Cluster F!:(

This is like Abbot and Costello, Whos on first! :eek:

[doubleblue&gold]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
From an IFC / Guy point of View, Jeeze What a Cluster F!:(

This is like Abbot and Costello, Whos on first! :eek:

That's exactly how it can be!!!

It all comes to who the PNM puts first and whether the GLO ranks her on their first list. If she isn't on their first list, she can still get a bid if not all the girls on the first bid list put then first.

Say, PNM-1 wants ABC first and XYZ second. PNM-2 wants RST first and ABC second. If ABC put PNM-2 on their first list but she gets a bid to RST (her first choice, then ABC has a place for PNM-1 if she's ranked high enough on their second list. If not, then PNM-1 receives a bid from XYZ depending where she is on their list.

At universities where he PNMs are told to rank all the houses whether they went to pref or not, it's possible to get a bid from someone you actually cut to go somewhere else!

[PhiFriend]

Originally posted by Lindz928
Carnation, you put perfectly into words what I was thinking. It is VERY frustrating for me. I am our chapter's panhellenic delegate, so I see what is going on and I don't know if there is anything my chapter can do about it.

I know that if we have the support of the rest of panhel on our campus, we can become just as strong or stronger than the other chapters that are here. But, just like Carnation said, I feel almost like we have been written off by those in charge. They say they support us, but they seem to do nothing to show it.

I may be completely off in what is going on, and I may be overreacting, but I don't think so. If someone has any advise, please let me know. Thanks alot!!

Stand firm to your view and make your case to panhellenic. And, if bringing on another group is inevitable, it is ESSENTIAL that your chapter uses this year to continue making improvements and have a chance to get as STRONG as you can before the new group arrives! In a system like yours, only the "strong" survive....it is Darwin at work here because, unfortunately, in Texas, memories are LONG when it comes to a chapter's reputation...even if the chapter is a new and improved version of what it once was.

On a side note... check out the Aggie yearbook...are you aware of how many groups on your campus have been "lost" to this tactic??! It is frightening! And it will keep happening for as long as this pattern continues.

In the meantime, COB your rear ends off so that you are prepared and comptetive in size and look by the time the new group is rushing! It is your very best chance for survival and chapter health!

[DolphinChicaDDD]

Hey all-

I have a few questions; some of them may be basic, but bear with me...its the first time my sorority is particiapting in formal rush. I'm the Panhel delegate, so everyone keeps comming to me with questions- and I left my Green Book at school!!!

Ok, when we make a 1st choice bid list, do we fill the list until quota? IE- quota is 20. Do we list 20 girls, in alphabetical order, then place the other girls on the second bid list?

How many girls can we put on the second bid list? Is there a limit?

As a side note, most of the Panhellenic is NOT being supportive. They kinda look at us like "You don't know this?!". So asking them is not going to be very helpful.
Thanks for everything!!!

[NutBrnHair]

Originally posted by DolphinChicaDDD
Ok, when we make a 1st choice bid list, do we fill the list until quota? IE- quota is 20. Do we list 20 girls, in alphabetical order, then place the other girls on the second bid list?

How many girls can we put on the second bid list? Is there a limit?



On your 1st bid list you list your top 20 (# for quota) in alpha order. The 2nd bid list is all of the rest of the women who attended your pref party in preferrential order.

[AZ-AlphaXi]

Originally posted by DolphinChicaDDD
Ok, when we make a 1st choice bid list, do we fill the list until quota? IE- quota is 20. Do we list 20 girls, in alphabetical order, then place the other girls on the second bid list?

How many girls can we put on the second bid list? Is there a limit?



As NutBrnHair says the first bid list is always in alphabetical order and is the number of woman that is quota (in your example 20).

On your second bid list you may put any number of women to whom you would be willing to extend a bid. This list is in the order you would like to bid the women. It should contain the remainder of the women who attended your preference party that didn't make it onto the first bid list but may also contain women who didn't attend your preference.

By adding in the women who didn't attend your preference that makes the list a good starting point for offering snap bids.

[honeychile]

Question: Hypothetically, then, if 200 women go through recruitment, and quota is 20, you can list the top 20 in your A list (alphabetically), then list the other 180 if you'd like?

This caused a bit of a donnybrook at one bid matching I attended.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

To answer honey's question: yes, you can.

A note on the other issue...nothing in the Green Book says your first bid list has to be in alphabetical order. Most groups have this system so that nobody except those preparing the bid list (usually a very small number of people) know exactly where each girl ranked.

/splitting hairs

[exlurker]

Originally posted by DolphinChicaDDD
Hey all-

I have a few questions; some of them may be basic, but bear with me...its the first time my sorority is particiapting in formal rush. I'm the Panhel delegate, so everyone keeps comming to me with questions- and I left my Green Book at school!!!

Ok, when we make a 1st choice bid list, do we fill the list until quota? IE- quota is 20. Do we list 20 girls, in alphabetical order, then place the other girls on the second bid list?

. . . .

DolphinChicaDDD,

Best wishes with recruitment! When it comes to creating your first and second lists, you will also want to be sure you follow Tri Delta's legacy policy (if any legacies attended your pref parties). That policy is stated on the HQ web site, in the recruitment section, and it could affect the arrangement of the second list. Your alumna advisers and regional / national representatives / officers should be able to assist you, of course.

Again, all the best!

[ADPiAkron]

I am not sure if this was asked earlier....are snap bids and quota additions the same things?? If not, explain the difference. We never used to follow the rules on that correctly at my school....it has changed since...but being the old rush chair I am still confused!!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

No, they are not the same thing.

Quota additions are done immediately after computerized bid matching. If a woman did not match, she can be hand-added to a chapter's bid list. This is done by the people (Greek Life?) doing the matching, and nobody knows who the quota additions are outside that room.

Snap bids come next. Chapters that did not make quota have the option of picking up women who did not match. Generally, the Rho Chi calls the woman and tells her she did not match with a group on her bid card, but XYZ would like to extend her a bid, and she has the option of accepting. You can receive a snap bid from more than one group, in which case your Rho Chi calls and gives you your options.

So basically, if you are a quota addition, you will never know, but if you are a snap bid, you will.

[ADPiAkron]

Ok...next question. I understand that quota additions and snap bids are meant for groups under quota...but what is the 5% rule. Is that only for quota additions? Or can people at quota snap bid also??

[hannahgirl]

Originally posted by BrownEyedGirl
To my knowledge, if you make quota through traditional bid matching, you may not snap bid above quota. However, if you are not at chapter total this may be a separate issue.


I believe that you are right. Even if the chapter is under total, if they meet quota, they cannot snap bid. That is what COB is for.

[AZ-AlphaXi]

Originally posted by ADPiAkron
Ok...next question. I understand that quota additions and snap bids are meant for groups under quota...but what is the 5% rule. Is that only for quota additions? Or can people at quota snap bid also??

Quota addition is the addition of women who did not match to bid lists of chapters who have made quota. The 5% rule is that the number of quota additions is not to exceed 5% of quota. So if quota is 20, any chapter should not have quota addition of more than 1. If quota is 35 than quota additons should not exceed 2 (1.75 rounded up).

So ... say quota is 20 and a women attended preference at chapters AA and BB ( 2 being the max she could attend). If both AA and BB make quota of 20 before the woman gets a bid, she doesn't match and would not get a bid. She can, if she meets certain qualifications, be a candidate for quota addition. She would then be added to the bid list of either chapter AA or chapter BB depending on which chapter is the smaller and that chapter would then have 21 new members.

Snap bids are to assist chapters which didn't make quota to
reach quota. Quota addition only applys to chapters who make quota. A chapter can snap bid to quota even if that would put the chapter over total. A chapter that has reached quota can not issue snap bids. The chapter can only issue COB bids if they are under total.

(Edited for spelling)

[ADPiAkron]

Thank you so much!! BTW I have three friends from High School that were Alpha Xi Delta's at Ohio University!!

[bluefish81]

Question: With the new NPC rules, is quota plus still available? Or would it only be an option if all chapters had made quota. I'm just curious.

[KDMafia]

Wow, after reading this either my school's rules are much simpler or i dont understand them.
We have both quota and total, and we have informal recruitment in the fall, and formal in the winter. The way we do it is total is set at 52, when sororities go through fall rush they can only give out as many bids as they have spots before they reach total.
During spring recruitment we have quota which is set right before preference night and is the same for everyone. We have quota plus one which is where if, say quota was 20, your top twenty girls all put you down as their first choice, than you get the next girl on your list that put you down first. I have never heard of that actually happening on my campus. However, i do know that after spring recruitment we can not cob to reach total, you can only reach quota which is hard for smaller chapters who, even if they almost or do reach quota, could still afford to take more girls on.

Also jumping to an earlier part of this message, i agree panhell just kinda watches some chapters die and doesn't do much to help them, except encourage girls not to suicide them. But this doesn't work either. It was heartbreaking to see girls from XYZ get excited becausee they had a pledge class of two, just to hear the girls had dropped their bids when they found out who they got them from.

[tcsparky]

Originally posted by KDMafia
However, i do know that after spring recruitment we can not cob to reach total, you can only reach quota which is hard for smaller chapters who, even if they almost or do reach quota, could still afford to take more girls on.

I think someone on your campus needs to read the green book. Under Unanimous Agreements, Continuous Open Bidding section, page 97 of the 13th edition (I haven't received the latest edition yet) I quote: "Each NPC fraternity chapter has the right to COB to reach Quota or its total allowable chapter size during the regular school year.........The purpose of Continuous Open Bidding is to enable those chapters which did not pledge Quota, or pledged Quota but did not reach Total, to take additional new members immediately following the designated formal recruitment period."

Someone who knows about this should definitely let me know if I'm wrong, but I think I understand this correctly.

[Zillini]

A little more info about quota additions. Without the benefit of having a Green Book on hand, this is my understanding. A PNM who attends every Pref party will be guaranteed a bid from at least one of these houses even if she doesn't match. That is unless she suicides, then all bets are off.

So on our campus there are 3 Pref parties. A PNM must be invited to and attend three different houses. She must then list all three in some order on her Pref Card for this guarantee to kick in.

[alphaalpha]

Let us say that a chapter is "small" and does not make quote during formal rush.. They are also below total. but if this house would be over total if they took quote, so (to make up numbers) say total is 50, the chapter is at 25, so they need 25 to make total, but quote is say 30.

So, by my understanding this house can take 30 during formal rush and in this situation go 10 over total.

Again, by my understanding, a chapter can take total plus acertain percentage over quota. But since this chapter did not make quota and is still below total they should be allowed to cob up to quota.

My question is: if during formal rush chapters may take quota plus, can a chapter which cob's to get quota take quota plus.

So, this chapter can COB and get the 30 new members(to fill the new member class), but can they take 30 plus? Like other chapters would have been able to do if they got a full pledge class during formal?

[33girl]

Originally posted by tcsparky
I think someone on your campus needs to read the green book. Under Unanimous Agreements, Continuous Open Bidding section, page 97 of the 13th edition (I haven't received the latest edition yet) I quote: "Each NPC fraternity chapter has the right to COB to reach Quota or its total allowable chapter size during the regular school year.........The purpose of Continuous Open Bidding is to enable those chapters which did not pledge Quota, or pledged Quota but did not reach Total, to take additional new members immediately following the designated formal recruitment period."

Someone who knows about this should definitely let me know if I'm wrong, but I think I understand this correctly.

No Tresa, you have it exactly right.

Chapters CAN COB AT ANY TIME (EXCEPT SUMMER) IF THEY ARE NOT AT CAMPUS TOTAL. That's why it's called continuous.

If for any reason your school is forbidding you to do this, contact your regional NPC rep ASAP.

[ISUKappa]

Originally posted by alphaalpha
Let us say that a chapter is "small" and does not make quote during formal rush.. They are also below total. but if this house would be over total if they took quote, so (to make up numbers) say total is 50, the chapter is at 25, so they need 25 to make total, but quote is say 30.

So, by my understanding this house can take 30 during formal rush and in this situation go 10 over total.

Again, by my understanding, a chapter can take total plus acertain percentage over quota. But since this chapter did not make quota and is still below total they should be allowed to cob up to quota.

My question is: if during formal rush chapters may take quota plus, can a chapter which cob's to get quota take quota plus.

So, this chapter can COB and get the 30 new members(to fill the new member class), but can they take 30 plus? Like other chapters would have been able to do if they got a full pledge class during formal?
Quota and total are two different things.

Quota only refers to the maximum amount of women chapters can give bids to during a structured recruitment process.

Total is the maximum chapter size at a particular school.

So, Yes, a chapter can exceed Total during the structured recruitment process by taking quota or quota plus.

But where COR is concerned, since each chapter does it on its own, there is usually no set quota limit. Each chapter can give as many bids as they want through COR until they reach Total at their campus. There is no "quota plus" for COR.*

So at Dude U, there are four chapters.
Total is 50.
Quota through structured recruitment is 15.

Chapter ABC had 40 members before recruitment and made quota, thereby putting them above total (50) with 55 members. They are not eligible for COR because they are now above total.

Chapter DEF had 35 members before recruitment and gave bids to 15 girls, thereby bringing their chapter up to 50 girls. They are not eligible for COR because they are now just at total.

Chapter GHI had 25 members before recruitment and pledged quota of 15. They are eligible to COR up to 10 women to fill the spots to bring them up to total.

Chapter JKL had 10 members before recruitment and pledged 10 women. They are are eligible to COR 30 women if they want, to bring them up to total.

Does that help?

* This is my understanding through my experiences as both an undergrad and an adviser at two different schools with a fall formal recruitment process.

[AZ-AlphaXi]

There is also the following case

chapter XYZ has 40 members prior to recruitment and receives 12 new members from formal recruitment. This puts them over total at 52 members but (as my sister Tresa pointed out) because a chapter is always allowed to pledge to quota at anytime during the school year, this chapter may offer 3 COB bids in order to pledge to quota and would have 55 members.

Important point to note, once they have pledged their 15 new members (12 + 3) and are at quota and over total, XYZ may not pledge any more new members until they fall back below the chapter total. So, if 2 of the new members quit they may not be replaced. But if some combination of 6 or more members quit or leave school or graduate then XYZ may offer COB bids up to total (50 in this case) only.

[ISUKappa]

Thanks AZ-Alpha Xi, I knew I was missing a scenario in there!

I think that in JKL's scenario, if they did happen to COR an additional 30 women to bring them up to total (50), it wouldn't be considered "quota plus 25" (10 original bids + 5 COR bids to = quota of 15 plus 25 women to bring them up to total of 50). It's my understanding quota is usually only used/referred to during the structured recruitment process (besides being able to COR up to quota, even if a chapter is at or above total).

[alphaalpha]

[/B][/QUOTE] There is no "quota plus" for COR.*
[/B][/QUOTE]

This is the answer that i was looking for. I just find it interesting, and something that i never understood because i think that it favors the chapters that are good at formal recruitment.

I think (and if i could rule the world) that if a sorority is allowed to take quota plus during formal/structured rush, then if that sorority needs to COR to reach quota then they should be allowed to take quota plus during COR. I think that each sorority should be allowed to be successful at what they are best at.

I am just asking cause i know at my school some sororities could be over total(90) through making quota and then getting quota plus, so they were at say 100 to 110 while at least 2 other houses were below 50. I know whinning has no real use, but it seems that if a sorority can take quota plus during formal/structured rush then to help out the "small" sororities they should be able to do what the larger chapters do during COR.

Just my opinion, but thanks for the 411,

[33girl]

Originally posted by alphaalpha
This is the answer that i was looking for. I just find it interesting, and something that i never understood because i think that it favors the chapters that are good at formal recruitment.

I think (and if i could rule the world) that if a sorority is allowed to take quota plus during formal/structured rush, then if that sorority needs to COR to reach quota then they should be allowed to take quota plus during COR. I think that each sorority should be allowed to be successful at what they are best at.

I am just asking cause i know at my school some sororities could be over total(90) through making quota and then getting quota plus, so they were at say 100 to 110 while at least 2 other houses were below 50. I know whinning has no real use, but it seems that if a sorority can take quota plus during formal/structured rush then to help out the "small" sororities they should be able to do what the larger chapters do during COR.

Just my opinion, but thanks for the 411,

but the thing is, a quota doesn't EXIST during COR. The only time quota exists is formal rush.

I think some schools have said that you can COR up to "average chapter size" rather than total on campus, but don't quote me on that.

[aopirose]

Originally posted by 33girl
I think some schools have said that you can COR up to "average chapter size" rather than total on campus, but don't quote me on that.

That's true because at some schools the average chapter size is WAY above Total. In order for the sororities to maintain some sort of parity, it would be only fair to allow the smaller chapters to get up to average chapter size. I know that this is done many times during colonization too.

[AUAZD2001]

If chapter average is way above total, then panhellenic should seiously consider either raising total, or bringing in a new chapter.

I was wondereing, in order to encourage women to pledge the smaller chapter(s) on a campus with a reputation which doesn't match reality, could the small chapter(s) be allowed to recruit freshmen in the fall semester, and much larger chapters be required to wait until spring semester to recruit. It would encourage some women to at lteast investigate the smaller chapter(s) because they could start their sorority experience sooner. But if they were determined to join the larger chapters, they would have to wait a semester.

Just thinking a little bit outside the box.

[FSUZeta]

i like the premise of your idea, but in a way it seems like it would be a punishment for the big chapters.

[33girl]

Not only that, you get into freedom of association issues (if the chapters in question haven't done anything to be punished for). The HQs of the sororities effected would be running to the ACLU before you could say Green Book!

Plus, at a school where being super selective is part of the allure of the Greek system, this could backfire - "oh you can pledge ABC first semester, but to pledge XYZ you have to WAIT because we're WORTH it."

[AlphaFrog]

The other thing is where to draw the line. I realize many systems there's a huge gap between the large sororities and small sororites and there's hardly middle groud, but when there is middle ground, who gets to recruit in Fall and who has to wait?? If you have 2 groups at 100+, 2 at 60, 2 at 40 and 1 at 20, where do you draw the line??

[axidgl]

I understand what you all are saying, and that it's unfair to the bigger chapter, but how could we work it out to help the smaller chapters recruit more women? Coming from a small chapter (~50) at a school of huge chapters(most 100-150+), it's almost impossible to compete with these chapters, and due to this, our chapter closed. We couldn't pledge quota during FR, nor could we reach total through COB. Quota and total have both risen significantly recently, despite attempts to keep it downfrom us and our Greek Advisor, because it is a vote from all chapters. The solution in this case (of high total and quota), is NOT to add another sorority to keep down total so chapters can have real sisterhood, because if one chapter is struggling now adding another sorority would just worsen the problem, and either make the small chapter smaller, or both the small chapter and the new chapter small. What is the answer though? Allow the small chapter to close, sadly enough, and move on, add another GLO like the problem never existed?

[Drolefille]

Sometimes I think the answer IS to close a struggling chapter. Every now and then chapters get into a hole that they can't get out from, or at least not without a LOT of panhellenic support. If that support isn't ever going to be there, it may be better for the chapter to close, and recolonize later. It is NOT what is best for the sisters there, but it may be the best thing for the chapter as a whole.

[AlphaFrog]

Allow the small chapter to close, sadly enough, and move on, add another GLO like the problem never existed?

Unfortunatly, this happens rather frequently.

[33girl]

nor could we reach total through COB.

Did you have open bid events throughout the year or just following formal rush?

[axidgl]

We COB'd throughout the year, at least one a week. We pledged women in every two weeks, and still could no get to where we needed to be.

[ADPi Conniebama]

Here's my HO

1) GLO members of the male persuasion do not seem to understand the way Panhellenic is set up - nor can they seem to understand why it is set up the way it is. So, MEN don't worry about it . . . I know it bothers you that we do it this way and totally different from IFC, but this is the way that it has worked for a long time. (My brother (a KA from B'ham Southern) thinks the whole panhellenic recruitment thing is a ridiculous set up - but I tell him it is what is necessary to "recruit" mostly 17-19 year olds - to help them the most.)

2) And, women, come on, ya'll all know why we have to have these "green book" rules - we are women - Sometimes, the older ones of us have to make sure that the younger ones of us don't mess up too much. We have to set up a way to help the strong chapters and the "transitional" chapters alike. These new release figures are for sure the right direction if the various "hired greek advisors" follow the rules accordingly.

3) Also, I think what some people are missing is there are different reasons for different "terms" - I don't think and Panhellenic is trying to drive us crazy with "fuzzy math."
a) Panhellenic quota (and reaching Panhellenic quota) determines alot of things as far as the individual sorority goes - like national awards and so forth.
b) quota additions geared more towards the pnm then greek system.
c) snap bids are for the individual sorority
d) total is for the greek system (to grow or know what to do next year)
e) COR's are set to get the sorority to total

So, knowing all of that should help to understand why some sororities have quota plus (to help the pnm's) and why some sororities have snap bidding (so they don't have to COR)

- Reading back through this I sound like I am trying to be mean but I promise I am not, so please try not to take it that way, these are just the way I see things -

Panhellenically Yours
Connie

[UGAalum94]

This question goes way beyond the scope of anything I'm really entitled to know, but could an official rush advisor anonymously post modified data on a school's rush to basically show how different systems work?

Like make up group names and return rates, and walk us through what happens at schools with different systems?

Again, I'm simply an alum, not any kind of advisor, and I don't really need to know any of this, but I'm curious about how things have actually worked. Quota additions and release figures seem like they would be wonderful, and yet schools (it seems based on threads from the last few years) seem to have trouble implementing them in a way that works.

[gphiangel624]

This question goes way beyond the scope of anything I'm really entitled to know, but could an official rush advisor anonymously post modified data on a school's rush to basically show how different systems work?

Like make up group names and return rates, and walk up through what happens at schools with different systems?

Again, I'm simply an alum, not any kind of advisor, and I don't really need to know any of this, but I'm curious about how things have actually worked. Quota additions and release figures seem like they would be wonderful, and yet schools (it seems based on threads from the last few years) seem to have trouble implementing them in a way that works.

I'm trying to figure out exactly what you mean so I can maybe provide a response. When you say "official rush advisor," I'm assuming you mean a chapter's recruitment advisor, right? Not a campus' Greek/Panhellenic Advisor, or person administering recruitment? If you're asking to get a mockup from a campus perspective, I'd be willing to share how it works at my university (using made-up names/return rates, etc.) if no one is opposed to it.

[UGAalum94]

I don't need to be able to match the data to any one school or group, but I'd like to read about how the quota additions and release figure recruitment system works.

I wanted it to come from someone who had actual knowledge of one system's result, rather than just someone making something up about how they thought it should work.

A campus greek advisor would be ideal, but I doubt they'd be willing to post on greek chat.

As an advisor to one chapter, do you get to see other chapters' return results and releases?

[gphiangel624]

Ok, that makes sense then...

I work as my campus' Panhellenic Advisor, so I see all of the figures and know how it works from the "inside." Again, if no one objects, I'm willing to make up some sample figures to explain. I don't think it would be a problem to do this, but I'd like to get some thoughts from others before posting how it works on GC.

Advisors for individual chapters should not see other chapters' return results and releases. Those are confidential, so I don't and cannot share that information as Panhellenic Advisor. I treat release figures the same as I do PNM rankings/pref cards. But if chapters want to share, that's their perogative (not that they do on my campus).

[UGAalum94]

I understand wanting to get some feedback first.

You sound like the perfect person to do this.

Were you the advisor before the era of release figures and quota additions so you can contrast the old and new? I'm thrilled if I get to hear about the new alone, but I'd be interested in the comparision too.

Thanks!

[gphiangel624]

Last year was my first year as the Panhellenic Advisor and our campus' first year with the new release figures, but I had to pull together the previous 3 years of release figures info in order to be ready for the new method. I also assisted my chapter for 2 years on the alumnae side before that, so I know how the old method worked as well.

Just from a general perspective, the new method is awesome- not only does it make parties smaller and easier for chapters to manage (there may be some disagreement with me on this part, esp. from larger campuses), it also gives a PNM more realistic choices throughout the recruitment process and keeps a larger percentage of PNMs in the process longer. We saw a lot of great results from it last year, though some of our chapters were hesitant and worried with their release numbers. In the end, 5 of the 6 chapters ended up making quota (4 of them with QAs) and the one that didn't make it was only off by 2 members. It was the best turnout in terms of chapters making quota (and getting close to it) that our campus has had in at least 10 years.

[UGAalum94]

It sound like it's working perfectly at your campus!
Are there groups who still resist using the release figures?

[honeychile]

I have to admit, I was very much against release figures - too much control and all that.

But our campus used it this year. There are eleven constant sororities - just enough that a twelfth one comes on campus as regular as clockwork, and another one goes under. This year, NINE out of eleven sororities made either Quota or Quota Plus. This was astonishing, given the school's greek history.

So, I'm a convert. Another year or two of these Formal Recruitments, and maybe a twelfth sorority can return - to stay!

[gphiangel624]

It sound like it's working perfectly at your campus!
Are there groups who still resist using the release figures?

Yes, it's working wonderfully for our campus. I'm hoping we get great results again this year.

No one really resists release figures on my campus. When we were on the old method, some chapters wouldn't follow their recommended figures; this ended up helping the chapters in terms of getting more PNMs to maintain their interest, but didn't always help the PNMs (i.e. they'd get cut later in the process which led to hurt feelings and more withdrawls). The chapters weren't all thrilled with the new method last year; chapters that have strong recruiting skills were bothered with having to cut so many in the beginning and less strong chapters were bothered with not having the option to be as selective as they'd like to be. So there are pros and cons, but it works out in the end for everyone.

[33girl]

less strong chapters were bothered with not having the option to be as selective as they'd like to be.

Can't they choose to not invite people back, even if they do end up with a smaller group? I thought the release figure methods were to keep the bigger chapters from going overboard, not to force any chapter to invite women they don't want.

[gphiangel624]

Can't they choose to not invite people back, even if they do end up with a smaller group? I thought the release figure methods were to keep the bigger chapters from going overboard, not to force any chapter to invite women they don't want.

This was just one of the drawbacks we saw last year. From what I recall, chapters who were "instructed" to release few PNMs ended up cutting a little anyway, to the dismay of our NPC Area Advisor. I completely agree that even if a chapter is not a strong recruiting chapter (large or small) they should be able to cut as they please because they do have standards and all. I think the chapters with this dilemma ended up cutting for grades (regardless of what the release figures demanded).

[UGAalum94]

I think the sooner that you cut girls that you would not or could not offer bids to, especially for something objective like grades, the better. It doesn't seem to me that you'd want to give them false hope if you knew earlier on there was no way to have them as new members.

I wouldn't expect anyone to have too many of these girls, but large or small, all chapters will probably have a few.

Can you give us a sense of what the release figure range is?

[ADPi Conniebama]

Last year was my first year as the Panhellenic Advisor and our campus' first year with the new release figures, but I had to pull together the previous 3 years of release figures info in order to be ready for the new method. I also assisted my chapter for 2 years on the alumnae side before that, so I know how the old method worked as well.

Just from a general perspective, the new method is awesome- not only does it make parties smaller and easier for chapters to manage (there may be some disagreement with me on this part, esp. from larger campuses), it also gives a PNM more realistic choices throughout the recruitment process and keeps a larger percentage of PNMs in the process longer. We saw a lot of great results from it last year, though some of our chapters were hesitant and worried with their release numbers. In the end, 5 of the 6 chapters ended up making quota (4 of them with QAs) and the one that didn't make it was only off by 2 members. It was the best turnout in terms of chapters making quota (and getting close to it) that our campus has had in at least 10 years.

I would love to hear the "new release figure method" from a greek/panhellenic advisor point of view. (I am a recruitment advisor) - AND I AM TOTALLY biased for ADPi - so I can only visualize - any rules - from my chapters or my sororities point of view.

panhellenically yours
connie

[Drolefille]

This was just one of the drawbacks we saw last year. From what I recall, chapters who were "instructed" to release few PNMs ended up cutting a little anyway, to the dismay of our NPC Area Advisor. I completely agree that even if a chapter is not a strong recruiting chapter (large or small) they should be able to cut as they please because they do have standards and all. I think the chapters with this dilemma ended up cutting for grades (regardless of what the release figures demanded).
I think I've said it before, but there does come a point when you look at the recommendations (which may say to cut no one) and choose to cut anyway, not just for grades. If you don't want a girl on your bid list, leaving her on your bidlist just because someone else said percentages work is not a good idea.

Choosing to COB to quota over being less selective can often be a better choice, I think. One of the ways chapters can fail is being very un-selective, and taking girls who end up being uncommitted. And when the uncommitted ones withdraw from the chapter, you feel even more pressure to take quota and the cycle continues until you close.

/I do think that that the new figures are a good thing, but they are recommendations, not requirements

[gphiangel624]

Choosing to COB to quota over being less selective can often be a better choice, I think. One of the ways chapters can fail is being very un-selective, and taking girls who end up being uncommitted. And when the uncommitted ones withdraw from the chapter, you feel even more pressure to take quota and the cycle continues until you close.


I absolutely agree with this, though I think there is pressure in COB for some chapters as well.

Alphagamuga- I'm not sure if I should share the range given a few GCers know what campus I work at. Not to mention I'd have to check the figures from last year which I wouldn't be able to get to until at least a week from now (fall quarter has definitely eaten me alive already). I'll see what I can share in terms of a "mock" range, maybe?

[UGAalum94]

A mock range, a range from several years ago, a range from a different campus. . .

Anything you feel comfortable with is okay with me.

I've heard rumors about how some of the really amazing groups at UGA have to release at percentages that I'm not sure could work out mathematically to have full parties and yield quota. (Many of the groups are so strong that no matter how many they had to release, close to 100% of the PNMs they invited back would eagerly accept bids, I think, except in the years when it turns out that three of the top chapters all invited the exact same girls back, even though there were more than 1000 who rushed.)

Lately, I've started to wonder if complaining about release figures isn't a new way for the chapters to compete with each other.

For example, member of group QRS*, " Gah, release figures are the devil. Sooo many girls want us that we have to cut 80% after first round."

Member of group XYZ replies, "I knoooww, we have such great returns that we have to release 87%.*"

Not that every member of the chapter even knows how many were released, but I'm curious about how it really works.

* Note, this is a totally fictionalized conversation. No girl from a truly top house at UGA would talk this way or say anything about the girls they released except that the chapter was heartbroken to see them go.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I think the sooner that you cut girls that you would not or could not offer bids to, especially for something objective like grades, the better. It doesn't seem to me that you'd want to give them false hope if you knew earlier on there was no way to have them as new members.

I wouldn't expect anyone to have too many of these girls, but large or small, all chapters will probably have a few.

Can you give us a sense of what the release figure range is?

Not true. If you expect that few women will accept invitations, you invite them all. You do not want the girls who you DO want showing up and seeing that your party only has 20 PNM's when every other chapter's party has 30.

[33girl]

Not true. If you expect that few women will accept invitations, you invite them all. You do not want the girls who you DO want showing up and seeing that your party only has 20 PNM's when every other chapter's party has 30.

Yes, but if one of the girls came to a previous party and was all "I'm going ABC and the only damn reason I'm here is because they told me I had to come" you want to release her butt as soon as humanly possible. People with bad attitudes aren't something you want around as they can "infect" the other rushees with and then you're doubly SOL.

As far as the grades question, you literally may not be allowed by your national bylaws to ask them back.

[AlphaFrog]

Yes, but if one of the girls came to a previous party and was all "I'm going ABC and the only damn reason I'm here is because they told me I had to come" you want to release her butt as soon as humanly possible. People with bad attitudes aren't something you want around as they can "infect" the other rushees with and then you're doubly SOL.



Also, you may want to leave the freakshows (you know, the ones that came in hungover and puked in the foyer, jumped up on the table and did a striptease, etc.) off your invite list, even if you need bodies. PNMs are going to see that girl back and think "Gee, if this sorority invited HER back, I sure don't want to be a part of it...".

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Also, you may want to leave the freakshows (you know, the ones that came in hungover and puked in the foyer, jumped up on the table and did a striptease, etc.) off your invite list, even if you need bodies. PNMs are going to see that girl back and think "Gee, if this sorority invited HER back, I sure don't want to be a part of it...".

I certainly agree with this. I am just saying that when a chapter has the option of inviting back girls they can't take due to grades, or having empty parties, you shouldn't assume that they are always going to err on the side of sparing the PNM's feelings.

I think I am very cynical about the process, because I notice I am playing devil's advocate an awful lot.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

1. No, it does not say anywhere in the green book that you are guaranteed a bid if you attend and rank the maximum number of pref parties. Some campuses have this rule, but NPC does not.

2. If your campus has spring rush, the chapters under total can do COR in the fall, unless a specific campus rule prohibits it.

3. Release figures are recommendations. However, some campuses have the rule that if a chapter does not abide by suggested release figures, they are not eligible for quota additions, which, at 5%, can be 4 girls on larger campuses.

[tcsparky]

Not true. If you expect that few women will accept invitations, you invite them all. You do not want the girls who you DO want showing up and seeing that your party only has 20 PNM's when every other chapter's party has 30.

Hmmmmm...couldn't one way around this be to have fewer parties for that sorority? Example, if there are 7 time slots for parties on that night, and in order to have fuller parties a group needed to have 6, wouldn't that be an option? Or, if there were an extra slot built in for each sorority to have a break anyway, who would know for sure if a group got an extra break time? Then, the parties would be fuller, even though the sorority is cutting harder.

[33girl]

Hmmmmm...couldn't one way around this be to have fewer parties for that sorority? Example, if there are 7 time slots for parties on that night, and in order to have fuller parties a group needed to have 6, wouldn't that be an option? Or, if there were an extra slot built in for each sorority to have a break anyway, who would know for sure if a group got an extra break time? Then, the parties would be fuller, even though the sorority is cutting harder.

The problem with that would be coordinating the scheduling w/ the rushees' other parties. I'm sure it could be done with a smaller rush, but at places where 2000 girls are going through it would be a nightmare.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

The problem with that would be coordinating the scheduling w/ the rushees' other parties. I'm sure it could be done with a smaller rush, but at places where 2000 girls are going through it would be a nightmare.

Hmmm...are any of the software vendors paying attention? This could be done pretty easily programmatically.

Assuming the computer does the scheduling, I think this would be a great idea.

[UGAalum94]

Not true. If you expect that few women will accept invitations, you invite them all. You do not want the girls who you DO want showing up and seeing that your party only has 20 PNM's when every other chapter's party has 30.

I can see your point from a rush PR view, but I was really thinking in terms of what was good for PNMs. It seems to me like it's better to let them know where they stand with your group sooner rather than later so that they can be realistic about where they might join.

The flexible number of parties sounds like a good idea.

Doesn't the small party thing work itself out though because the groups with low returns are smaller in number themselves? Is it better to have a small number of guests but at least one rusher per guest or is it better to have crowded parties and maybe have to double rush?

[FSUZeta]

releasing a certain amount of girls could work in a chapters favor, making them appear more desirable to the girls who were invited back to that chapters next round.

[KSUViolet06]

I hear ALOT of people saying this at other schools and on this board, it's a myth:

The new release figures method does NOT "GUARANTEE" that every chapter makes quota.

Yes it allows for smaller group to invite back more women. However, you can invite back back all the women you want,but that does not mean they have to accept. You still need need to do your part as a chapter to make girls interested in taking a closer look at your chapter.

They do help alot, but the new release figures method doesn't just magically give every chapter quota.

[GeorgiaGirl]

I like the new release figures system as it is used at UGA. It has worked on our campus. No, not every house is making quota, but many more are than have in the past. I honestly think that with a few more years of using this system that all of our houses will be consistantly making quota.

The main reason that I like this system has nothing to do with quota, party size, or release figures. I know that this system helped us to place many girls. Before, houses could continue to invite PNMs to parties so that they would have high return rates, or for whatever reason, and then release them before prefs. Girls would be devistated that they were released from their favorite houses and withdraw from recruitment. If larger houses have to cut up to 70% of PNMs after round 1, it gives the PNMs a realistic view of recruitment. It is easier to convince them to give houses that weren't their number one a second chance after round one than after they have just been dropped from their favorite house right before prefs. I hope that makes sense...

[33girl]

IThe main reason that I like this system has nothing to do with quota, party size, or release figures. This fall I was a recruitment counselor and I know that this system helped us to place many girls.

This sums it up. The release figures are mainly to benefit the RUSHEES, not the sorority chapters. People have finally wised up to how damaging it is to have women who were previously pro-Greek turn anti-Greek because they got screwed at rush.

[UGAalum94]

I like the new release figures system as it is used at UGA. It has worked on our campus. No, not every house is making quota, but many more are than have in the past. I honestly think that with a few more years of using this system that all of our houses will be consistantly making quota.

The main reason that I like this system has nothing to do with quota, party size, or release figures. This fall I was a recruitment counselor and I know that this system helped us to place many girls. Before, houses could continue to invite PNMs to parties so that they would have high return rates, or for whatever reason, and then release them before prefs. Girls would be devistated that they were released from their favorite houses and withdraw from recruitment. If larger houses have to cut up to 70% of PNMs after round 1, it gives the PNMs a realistic view of recruitment. It is easier to convince them to give houses that weren't their number one a second chance after round one than after they have just been dropped from their favorite house right before prefs. I hope that makes sense...

I think it's a great system. I don't know that the numbers will ever work so perfectly so every group makes quota every year, but I think it's helping.

(I'm afraid that girls dropping out after quota is set will always make it hard for it to be perfect, but it will be greatly improved. Everyone will be a lot closer to quota even if they don't have it on bid day.)

I went to Georgia back in the 1990s, and I know that you are completely right about the old days.

I'm still confused about one aspect, though, and this is why I was hoping that we could get walked through a mock release figure rush.

I don't see how a group can cut 70% of the PNMs and still have 12 full parties the next day. I thought everyone got to invite at least estimated quota back to each event at each round, and that your previous return rates determined how much over that you could go.

So let's pretend at UGA during second round, 1000 girls were still in rush, and some groups had to cut 70% of them. That would leave only 300 girls to fill 12 second round parties. Do these groups have 25 girl parties?

I absolutely know that there are groups at UGA that if they only got to pref quota, could probably still have everyone they preffed want bids from them.

But I just don't see how the numbers work through all four rounds.

Anyone?

[ADPi Conniebama]

My response to that is - There are still some pnm's that get released from ALL or MOST of the sororities on the first/second night. The same girls are more then likely released the same days - except for the girls that everyone wants.

Therefore it doesn't effect quota. (if quota is set after theme or prior to pref)

I mean, lets say 200 girls go through and there are 4 sororities. . . it is very likely that 10 of the pnm's will be released from all four sororities the 1st night. (at the university that I work with these pnm's that were likely to be released early on were warned that this could happen [grades])

I hoped that helped a little or maybe I am way off base on your question.

[GeorgiaGirl]

(I'm afraid that girls dropping out after quota is set will always make it hard for it to be perfect, but it will be greatly improved. Everyone will be a lot closer to quota even if they don't have it on bid day.)

That is not really an issue at all. Quota at UGA is set by how many PNMs attend pref and sign a prefernece ranking card. It is made very clear what the implications will be if they decline their bid after signing this legally binding agreement. I can only think of two or three situations this year where girls declined their bids.


So let's pretend at UGA during second round, 1000 girls were still in rush, and some groups had to cut 70% of them. That would leave only 300 girls to fill 12 second round parties. Do these groups have 25 girl parties?

I absolutely know that there are groups at UGA that if they only got to pref quota, could probably still have everyone they preffed want bids from them.

But I just don't see how the numbers work through all four rounds.

Anyone?

To answer your question, yes. They would have 25 girl parties. Some would even be smaller because of scheduling. PNMs do not view this as a negative thing. It makes them feel honored to be one of the "select few."

Moving on to your question about how it could work for all four rounds. After these houses make their 60-70% cuts after round one they cut very few girls in subsequent rounds. They are not cutting 60-70% every day. Just initially. So they basically have to have a fairly good idea of who they want before recruitment even begins.

Does this answer your question?

[UGAalum94]

It does answer my question. Thank you.

I'm surprised that it differs so much from how release numbers work in the first couple of post on this thread, but thanks for explaining.

That's good about quota. As far I as I knew, quota was still set by the number invited to prefs, as opposed to the number signing bid cards.

You are right, I would imagine very few if any groups won't make quota if only girls signing bid cards count!


Thank you!

[UGAalum94]

Conniebama, my question was a little different only because UGA has 18 groups. While I think there are a few girls who get released completely early on (as you noted, if they have really low grades for example) as a percentage of total PNM, I would expect that the number of girls released completely after 1st round would be slim.

Please note that this next observation is based on my memories of a process that I don't know if I understood fully at the time, so it may be wildly wrong.

In the past there was always a significant group who, because they got released by their favorites so late, dropped between third round and prefs when they realized for the first time where they'd actually get bids.

And if I remember correctly from back in the 90s, these late drop outs who were invited to prefs might have counted towards quota, even though nobody was going to bid them.

It's excellent that now only girls signing bid cards count!

GeorgiaGirl, if I understand you correctly, basically only second round parties at these houses would be small because for third round, 300/6 is about size of everyone else.

Thanks!

[lyrelyre]

Hmmm...are any of the software vendors paying attention? This could be done pretty easily programmatically.

Assuming the computer does the scheduling, I think this would be a great idea.

At the campus where I advise having fewer parties is an option. You just have to let Panhellenic know by the time they schedule the parties. As far as I know the computer does the schedule.

[Deepher4Life]

there are way to many rules. sometimes i wish PHA rushed like IFC, everybody comes out and you go to the events you want.

done.

[violetpretty]

there are way to many rules. sometimes i wish PHA rushed like IFC, everybody comes out and you go to the events you want.

done.

On some campuses, particularly smaller ones, they will use a much less structured recruitment. I do think that a PNM should go to each chapter at least once. At small schools with 4 or fewer chapters and with total at 40 or fewer, it doesn't always make much sense to approach recruitment with release figures.

If the "IFC method" were the only method of recruiting at schools with a large Greek community (i.e. 10+ chapters, total at least 100), you'd see patterns in membership, well, similar to the IFC, lots of turnover.

[ADPi Conniebama]

Well I am from a small (4 sororities) greek community university and WITH ALL OF THESE NEW rules there is so much potential for mistakes on "return rates" and I know this because it happened at the school I advise for this past recruitiment year. IT WAS A MESS and my specific chapter was drastically negatively effected.

Now, don't get me wrong if done correctly and without personal interference by the local panhellenic (given the fact that the greek advisor can and usually does have a favorite sorority - I mean they are only human) then I LOVE the new release figure method but Man when it goes bad it is awful and there is no way to go back and correct the problem.

Furthermore, due to the fact that one of the factors with the new system is to help the "struggling" chapters, if the system breaks down it hurts those chapters that much more. So, I do believe there is room for improvement in this system.

[SWTXBelle]

Sounds like the problem isn't the system - it's the faulty implementation of it. Is there any way to "fix" the problems before next recruitment? Advisors are only human, but that doesn't mean they get a pass for playing obvious favorites!

[ADPi Conniebama]

Oh yea I am sorry of course the "issue" that occured will be corrected prior to the next formal recruitment, however the damage was done and there was no way to correct it during the 07 formal recruitment period

- and yes it was human error that should have been caught by the greek advisor and should have been easy to see - and could have been stopped by the GREEK ADVISOR ONLY for she was the only person in authority that new all of the release numbers (I don't want to say too much)

- BUT really I am over it now because alls well that ends well - I just hate to see human error mess up a good system to that extent

[lawgal]

Just a quick question for you release figure gurus - how are release figures set for a new chapter that hasn't been through recruitment? Can they invite back as many as they want for each set of parties?

[AZ-AlphaXi]

My understanding is that for a new chapter, since it has no historical statistics that
the chapter is allowed to invite back any number of women.

[LAblondeGPhi]

My assumption would be that the chapter is encouraged to invite back almost all of their women from round to round (the equivalent of assuming the chapter has an historically poor return rate each day). If it's a campus using RFM, the flex lists should be able to help cushion the numbers if the chapter does better than expected, so they don't have ridiculously large parties.

I'm sure others on here will be able to tell us more precisely.

[itb]

This idea of not offering legacies just seems contradictory on so many levels.

If a FOUNDER of any organization could see how membership is done presently, I would think they would be appalled. Why would any organization risk alienating alums by not offering legacies? You not only lose future membership, but also financial support as well.

If an organization is successful (however you measure it, but let's use size, because of 'quotas'), then why should you turn away membership? How did this policy start? Some weaker organization whining about how they are shrinking, and then this policy was instituted to help them out? Was the policy started by a non-greek or someone with a grudge? Why would any organization want to help their competition? After all, every organization is competing for alum financial support and member support...

If House A can attract 200 people, and House X can only get 5, then House X deserves to go silent, unless they fix the problem. If House A decides to NOT offer legacies, and all of a sudden their Alums stop supporting them (causing decline), then they ALSO deserve that as well.

[UofISigKap]

Actually, my organization limited membership nearly from the get go. Direct from our public history: "In our first constitution, chapter membership was limited to 25." That was over 125 years ago and a decision made by the founders. Is the limit the same today? No, because it depends on the campus.

[kddani]

This idea of not offering legacies just seems contradictory on so many levels.

If a FOUNDER of any organization could see how membership is done presently, I would think they would be appalled. Why would any organization risk alienating alums by not offering legacies? You not only lose future membership, but also financial support as well.

If an organization is successful (however you measure it, but let's use size, because of 'quotas'), then why should you turn away membership? How did this policy start? Some weaker organization whining about how they are shrinking, and then this policy was instituted to help them out? Was the policy started by a non-greek or someone with a grudge? Why would any organization want to help their competition? After all, every organization is competing for alum financial support and member support...

If House A can attract 200 people, and House X can only get 5, then House X deserves to go silent, unless they fix the problem. If House A decides to NOT offer legacies, and all of a sudden their Alums stop supporting them (causing decline), then they ALSO deserve that as well.

You seem quite bitter.

[itb]

It's this characterization that just baffles most reasonable people. It's 'bitter' if your opinion is to let weaker organizations that cannot adapt or change or improve go silent or let stronger ones retain legacies and strength.

[gee_ess]

This idea of not offering legacies just seems contradictory on so many levels.



Where is this being discussed? I looked back in this thread and didn't see it. I am not familiar with what you are talking about.


It's this characterization that just baffles most reasonable people. It's 'bitter' if your opinion is to let weaker organizations that cannot adapt or change or improve go silent or let stronger ones retain legacies and strength

I think that the NPC groups feel one of their goals is to support Greek life and help grow and nurture the Greek environment. After all, we are all basically striving for the same thing. So, it is natural that we are not going to "go after" each other and hope for the worst for other groups who may be struggling.

[33girl]

You seem quite bitter.

There was another word starting with "bit" I was thinking of, but yeah, bitter works too.

If you think it's beneficial for women to be in a chapter with 300-400 members - and YES this would happen if some chapters offered bids to all the legacies going through - then you have an extremely screwed up view of what sisterhood is supposed to be about.

I personally do not consider the concept of a group with 400 members where the majority of people don't know each other's names or faces to be "strong" where sororities are concerned, but hey, if all you care about is letters on a jersey and a resume, rock out with your cock out.

ETA: I see you have dipped your toe in these waters before. Maybe your daughter's resume/stats just weren't good enough to get her in, or the chapter didn't like her, or SHE didn't like the chapter (and it showed). Suck it up, quit blaming the sorority, and move the eff on - for your daughter's sake.

[KSUViolet06]

This idea of not offering legacies just seems contradictory on so many levels.

If a FOUNDER of any organization could see how membership is done presently, I would think they would be appalled. Why would any organization risk alienating alums by not offering legacies? You not only lose future membership, but also financial support as well.

If an organization is successful (however you measure it, but let's use size, because of 'quotas'), then why should you turn away membership? How did this policy start? Some weaker organization whining about how they are shrinking, and then this policy was instituted to help them out? Was the policy started by a non-greek or someone with a grudge? Why would any organization want to help their competition? After all, every organization is competing for alum financial support and member support...

If House A can attract 200 people, and House X can only get 5, then House X deserves to go silent, unless they fix the problem. If House A decides to NOT offer legacies, and all of a sudden their Alums stop supporting them (causing decline), then they ALSO deserve that as well.

Quite possibly one of the most bitter things I've ever heard.

Anyhow, legacies policies are NOT in place to help/hinder OTHER sororities. So your little thingy about who deserves to "go silent" is pointless.

To be honest, legacy policies are meant to HELP chapters to pledge MORE of them, not fewer.

Also, something that people FAIL to realize is that if certain chapters offered a bid to EVERY LEGACY, there would be NO room for ANYONE ELSE. There would be a chapter full of them. Like it or not, they have to play fair and leave room for others who do not have legacy connections.

Another thing: parents often do NOT realize that a legacy HAS to be a GOOD FIT for the chapter. Alot of times, they don't get that their daughter may have not been a good fit, she may have not been interested, she may have been rude, etc. You just never know.

I get that moms get upset when their kid doesn't get a bid to their legacy chapter, but it is sometimes beneficial for them to see the big picture.

I think that every sorority makes the best effort to accomodate legacies and extend bids to them when possible, but that just doesn't happen every time.

[AlphaXi_Husky]

but hey, if all you care about is letters on a jersey and a resume, rock out with your cock out.

I am seriously LMAO at this.

And nothing new to add, just that I agree w/ 33girl and KSU

[violetpretty]

This idea of not offering legacies just seems contradictory on so many levels.

If a FOUNDER of any organization could see how membership is done presently, I would think they would be appalled. Why would any organization risk alienating alums by not offering legacies? You not only lose future membership, but also financial support as well.

If an organization is successful (however you measure it, but let's use size, because of 'quotas'), then why should you turn away membership? How did this policy start? Some weaker organization whining about how they are shrinking, and then this policy was instituted to help them out? Was the policy started by a non-greek or someone with a grudge? Why would any organization want to help their competition? After all, every organization is competing for alum financial support and member support...

If House A can attract 200 people, and House X can only get 5, then House X deserves to go silent, unless they fix the problem. If House A decides to NOT offer legacies, and all of a sudden their Alums stop supporting them (causing decline), then they ALSO deserve that as well.

Since you seem to be confused on the origin of legacy policies, every NPC has its own legacy policy, Panhellenic just uses release figures to tell each chapter how many women to invite to each round. Many NPCs will guarantee a legacy an invite to the first invitational round when space allows. This is not possible for very competitive chapters on certain campuses who have so many legacies going through (ie more than quota).

I think you're upset at the concept of quota and RFM. Panhellenic does not tell any member organization how to evaluate its legacies. So why would NPCs agree to a quota system? Because every NPC has struggling chapters somewhere. (Or chapters that would be struggling if not for RFM.) The quota system (and RFM) help maximize Greek membership on every campus, which in turn helps the struggling chapters that every NPC has somewhere.

Quite often the only "problem" your hypothetical "House X" might have is that PNMs don't give it a chance because of tent talk by other PNMs, other Greeks, alumnae, etc. This is where RFM steps in and allows these chapters the chance to show PNMs how great their chapters are.

I think back to how recruitment was done at my alma mater in the 1980s (based on stories). There were few cuts after the first round, so many PNMs would drop the "less popular" chapters as soon as they could, but then get cut out of all their other options as recruitment went on. If RFM had been used beginning in the 1980s, my school might still have Pi Beta Phi, Alpha Gamma Delta, Alpha Xi Delta, and Gamma Phi Beta.

If you were an active alum in your NPC, you'd probably be aware of the legacy policies and competitiveness of your sorority at your daughter's campus, and you'd probably still be active in your local alumnae chapter and support the local collegiate chapter with time and/or money. I'm guessing your sorority isn't losing much without your participation. If it were really that important to your daughter to join your sorority, she should have tried her luck at a campus with a less competitive chapter. Or maybe your dear daughter really isn't as great as you think she is.

[Jill1228]

Is the landing pad ready? I hear helicopters hovering...
Just sayin'

[SWTXBelle]

I would like to believe that most alumnae realize that being a member of a NPC group means that what benefits the system ultimately benefits their individual group. Having a variety of groups on each campus helps make sure that the majority of pnms can find a home, whether or not they are legacies. My love for Gamma Phi Beta is not contingent on an individual chapter's choice to extend a bid to my daughter. Were my daughter to pledge elsewhere, I would support her in that chapter but would certainly continue my support of Gamma Phi. I am more than a Gamma Phi - I am a member of the NPC, and firmly believe that there are NO member groups whose letters I would not be proud to see on my daughter.

[Shellfish]

It seems contradictory to me to say that small chapters should not benefit from the help that quotas afford them and also that legacies should have the assistance of automatic membership. Shouldn't they also stand or fall on their own merits?

Also, is it just me that shudders at the use of the phrase "offer legacies" instead of "offer membership to legacies"?

[SydneyK]

Also, is it just me that shudders at the use of the phrase "offer legacies" instead of "offer membership to legacies"?

Well, she doesn't seem to be the brightest when it comes to putting her thoughts down in a way that makes sense.

See here:
I have a general question about the use of the word legacy in any GLO. It seems to differ from organization to organization.

Is there a Panhellic or IFC mandate or national mandate to not offer membership to legacies?
Emphasis mine, but still. She essentially asked if nationals prohibited legacies. That's why, in the thread I quoted that from, I said I'd be surprised if any organization ever mandated that membership not be offered to legacies.

So, yeah. Bitter bitter, fwap fwap.

:rolleyes:

[littleowl33]

My love for Gamma Phi Beta is not contingent on an individual chapter's choice to extend a bid to my daughter. Were my daughter to pledge elsewhere, I would support her in that chapter but would certainly continue by support of Gamma Phi. I am more than a Gamma Phi - I am a member of the NPC, and firmly believe that there are NO member groups whose letters I would not be proud to see on my daughter.

LOVE THIS.

My (biological) sister will be attending my University next year, and if she decides to go through recruitment, I would love to see her become my (Kappa) sister. But if she were to go Alpha Phi, Phi Mu or to one of the non-NPC groups, I would be just as proud to see her wear the letters of a sisterhood she loves.

As to this business about letting the survival of the fittest take over and eliminate "weaker" groups - if that were the case, I probably would never have become a Kappa. When I joined my chapter, it was in serious trouble. While the other 3 groups had 120ish members, Kappa had 40ish. In the last 3 years, with a lot of hard work by the sisters and support from our nationals as well as the Greek Life office, we've doubled in size and are on pretty solid ground. We're continuing to improve and grow. If everyone had just given up on our chapter, and RFM had not been in place, I have no doubt that my chapter would have closed years ago, probably less than 5 or 6 years after it was chartered. That's exactly what happened to the DG chapter on our campus back in the early 90's.

This also fits in with what SWTXBelle said about being an NPC sister as well as the sister of a specific group. I strongly believe we have obligations to help struggling groups or sisters, no matter their letters... especially since every NPC group I know advocates helping those in need, whether or not they're Greek.

[ASTalumna06]

My love for Gamma Phi Beta is not contingent on an individual chapter's choice to extend a bid to my daughter. Were my daughter to pledge elsewhere, I would support her in that chapter but would certainly continue my support of Gamma Phi. I am more than a Gamma Phi - I am a member of the NPC, and firmly believe that there are NO member groups whose letters I would not be proud to see on my daughter.

I strongly believe we have obligations to help struggling groups or sisters, no matter their letters... especially since every NPC group I know advocates helping those in need, whether or not they're Greek.

And I look at it this way... Even if my chapter was doing great compared to the others on my campus, I would definitely try to help them in hopes that they received more members and didn't die out. Because I know that somewhere, a chapter of my sorority is struggling, and I would want the other NPC chapters on their campus to help them.

It's never good to hear that chapters have closed.

No matter the letters... :p

[AOE-7]

I'm trying to determine how likely it is that an organization would be allowed to extend bids over quota. Also, since total is say, 45, and a chapter goes into recruitment with 34, if quota is 10, then realistically, they MOST amount of bids they would be allowed to give out, is quota plus 1, right?

My understanding, is that each PNMs name is called alphabetically, with her first choice. If she is on the first bid list, for that chapter, it's a match. If she's on the second bid list for her first choice chapter, she gets put aside, right? And then once all the names are gone through, the names that had been put aside are gone through again, if she has moved up to the first bid list due to a previous PNMs matching with another chapter, then it's a match. If she's still not on the first bid list of the chapter she lists first by the time that chapter reaches quota, then her second choice, if they've not yet made quota themselves, and if she's on their first bid list, will extend her a bid, correct? But if she's not on the first bid list of her second choice at that point, and her second choice has not made quota - will they still extend her a bid, or will her first choice still be allowed to extend her a bid? And even if the PNM suicides, if she was not on their first bid list, they would not be allowed to extend her a bid, would they? Because she didnt maximize her options....(unless she was only invited to their party...and then she maximized her options, so they could give her a bid)?

Help!

[jwright25]

I'm trying to determine how likely it is that an organization would be allowed to extend bids over quota. Also, since total is say, 45, and a chapter goes into recruitment with 34, if quota is 10, then realistically, they MOST amount of bids they would be allowed to give out, is quota plus 1, right?

Yes and No. You have to be careful here. Quota and Total have nothing to do with each other. Quota is a term that applies ONLY to formal recruitment. It is not set based on Total in any way. A chapter can go over Total during formal recruitment by taking Quota. So in your example, if the chapter is at 34, Total is 45, but Quota is 20, they can still take all 20 of Quota.

When you say "quota plus 1," that depends on the "plus 1." You may take Quota Additions even if you are already over Total. Remember - Quota is formal recruitment only and has nothing to do with Total.

Now. Let's assume in your example that the chapter at 34 took Quota of 10 during formal recruitment. After FR, they are still 1 under Total. So they may COR that last open spot to get to Total of 45. That last spot can be filled by anyone regardless of whether or not she participated in FR. But if your "plus 1" was a Quota Addition obtained during FR bid matching, then the chapter is at Total and done recruiting.


My understanding, is that each PNMs name is called alphabetically, with her first choice. If she is on the first bid list, for that chapter, it's a match. If she's on the second bid list for her first choice chapter, she gets put aside, right?

Right

And then once all the names are gone through, the names that had been put aside are gone through again, if she has moved up to the first bid list due to a previous PNMs matching with another chapter, then it's a match. If she's still not on the first bid list of the chapter she lists first by the time that chapter reaches quota, then her second choice, if they've not yet made quota themselves, and if she's on their first bid list, will extend her a bid, correct?

Correct.

But if she's not on the first bid list of her second choice at that point, and her second choice has not made quota - will they still extend her a bid, or will her first choice still be allowed to extend her a bid?

The names of unmatched PNMs and their preferences will continue to be called until all chapters either make Quota or run out of names on their bid list. So this second choice chapter will either match to Quota before this PNM moves up to their first bid list, or she will match to them. If everyone matches to Quota before the PNM gets placed, she will be available for Quota Additions.

Quota Additions are placed depending on pre-recruitment chapter size, the PNM's preference, where she ranked on each chapter's bid list, etc.


And even if the PNM suicides, if she was not on their first bid list, they would not be allowed to extend her a bid, would they? Because she didnt maximize her options....(unless she was only invited to their party...and then she maximized her options, so they could give her a bid)?

You are correct. If a PNM has two Preference party invitations yet ranks only one of those chapters on her MRABA, then she will match ONLY if she is on that chapter's first bid list. And of course that first bid list changes throughout the process. So if chapter ABC lists the suiciding PNM as #5 on their B list, but 5 women on their A list match to XYZ chapter, then 1-5 on the B list move up to A. So she will match.

If a PNM has only one Preference party invitation, she can only list that one chapter on her MRABA, so as long as that chapter does what they are supposed to do and lists her on their bid list, she should match.

[AOE-7]

You are correct. If a PNM has two Preference party invitations yet ranks only one of those chapters on her MRABA, then she will match ONLY if she is on that chapter's first bid list. And of course that first bid list changes throughout the process. So if chapter ABC lists the suiciding PNM as #5 on their B list, but 5 women on their A list match to XYZ chapter, then 1-5 on the B list move up to A. So she will match.

If a PNM has only one Preference party invitation, she can only list that one chapter on her MRABA, so as long as that chapter does what they are supposed to do and lists her on their bid list, she should match.

Awesome! Thank you so much!!!!

Now...in the SIP example above - PNM suicided, but she was not on the chapters first bid list and they had already made quota...if that chapter was NOT at or above total at the end of FR....would they be allowed to snap bid, or COB her? Or, since that chapter is still below total, even though they are at Quota, would this be considered a snap bid?

My campus panhellenic is VERY young....we're finally getting our crap together this year.

[Zillini]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

The only restriction on a PNM who single intention preferences (aka suicides) is that she is inelible to be a Quota Addition. A Chapter can snap bid her to achieve Quota or COB her to reach Total.

[jwright25]

Awesome! Thank you so much!!!!

Now...in the SIP example above - PNM suicided, but she was not on the chapters first bid list and they had already made quota...if that chapter was NOT at or above total at the end of FR....would they be allowed to snap bid, or COB her? Or, since that chapter is still below total, even though they are at Quota, would this be considered a snap bid?

My campus panhellenic is VERY young....we're finally getting our crap together this year.

If that chapter was still below Total, they could COR her. Here's another difference in terminology. :) Snap Bidding goes along with formal recruitment only. If a chapter does not make Quota during FR, they may offer snap bids to any PNM who attended at least one round of FR and then was either released or dropped out or unmatched after bid matching. Snap bidding is only to fill spots in QUOTA. Snap bidding only takes place between bid matching and Bid Day Ceremony.

Continuous Recruitment (sometimes Continuous OPEN Recruitment - COR) is done outside of the formal recruitment window. It can be used to fill vacancies in Quota (if the chapter did not match or snap to Quota) or to fill vacancies in Total. CR begins after Panhellenic Bid Day Ceremonies are over.

So the PNM who ISP'ed (Intentional Single Preference / suicide) but did not match to her choice is available to be snap bidded to any chapter who did not make Quota. If she does not accept a snap bid, she is then eligible for a COR bid to any chapter that did not make Quota or is not at Total.

** Personal Opinion note here: If this situation is rampant within a Panhellenic, it would be in that Panhellenic's best interest to review Total. If most chapters are still below Total even after the conclusion of FR, it becomes a breeding ground for dirty rushing. Chapters could tell a PNM to suicide, then if she doesn't match, she can be picked up through COR after recruitment. Bad Bad Bad.

[jwright25]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

The only restriction on a PNM who single intention preferences (aka suicides) is that she is inelible to be a Quota Addition. A Chapter can snap bid her to achieve Quota or COB her to reach Total.

You are correct!

[AOE-7]

** Personal Opinion note here: If this situation is rampant within a Panhellenic, it would be in that Panhellenic's best interest to review Total. If most chapters are still below Total even after the conclusion of FR, it becomes a breeding ground for dirty rushing. Chapters could tell a PNM to suicide, then if she doesn't match, she can be picked up through COR after recruitment. Bad Bad Bad.

Well, the chapter who is our biggest competitor on campus got quota (and above total) with FR, which is good. However, they dropped ALOT of PNMs before pref, and told those girls: "Dont worry, we'll snap bid you." 2 of those girls came to our pref parties and signed their bid card with our chapter on it, but have not yet accepted. One of those girls is hacked off at the 1 year rule, but it's not our fault that their chapter didnt invite her to pref, and then toyed with her by saying "we'll snap bid you." This happened AFTER pref parties were over and before bid day, so of course, that PNM did not accept our bid on bid day. THAT is what ticks me off...she signed our card, ready to accept our bid, then she got mixed signals from someone in their chapter telling her "you can still be one of us...dont accept their bid"...So, since her best friend is in the other sorority, she hung out on the sidelines and watched them in their bid day festivities.

Whatever...I guess if she wants to follow them around like a lost little puppy dog for a year, hoping she can get in next year, that's her choice. She looked ridiculous though. It probably never occurred to her that they didnt invite her to pref for a reason. What chapter is going to be stupid enough to cut a girl during FR, if they REALLY wanted her, especially if they are going to be above total? Sounds to me like she doesnt get the hint. I wonder if she invited herself to bid night....ya know, since her best friend is in that sorority, so she would be automatically invited to hang out anyway?

Maybe I should but this story in the stupid PNM thread.

[jwright25]

Well, the chapter who is our biggest competitor on campus got quota (and above total) with FR, which is good. However, they dropped ALOT of PNMs before pref, and told those girls: "Dont worry, we'll snap bid you." 2 of those girls came to our pref parties and signed their bid card with our chapter on it, but have not yet accepted. One of those girls is hacked off at the 1 year rule, but it's not our fault that their chapter didnt invite her to pref, and then toyed with her by saying "we'll snap bid you." This happened AFTER pref parties were over and before bid day, so of course, that PNM did not accept our bid on bid day. THAT is what ticks me off...she signed our card, ready to accept our bid, then she got mixed signals from someone in their chapter telling her "you can still be one of us...dont accept their bid"...So, since her best friend is in the other sorority, she hung out on the sidelines and watched them in their bid day festivities.

These are HUGE infractions. You need to speak to your Fraternity/Sorority Advisor. The second one is a strict silence violation in addition to bid promising. However, you will need to be 100% confident that all the details you have are correct.

[kchen]

Continuous Recruitment (sometimes Continuous OPEN Recruitment - COR) is done outside of the formal recruitment window. It can be used to fill vacancies in Quota (if the chapter did not match or snap to Quota) or to fill vacancies in Total. CR begins after Panhellenic Bid Day Ceremonies are over.Is it true that chapters don't have to extend COR bids even if they are under quota/total?

[kddani]

Is it true that chapters don't have to extend COR bids even if they are under quota/total?

Sure. You can't force a chapter to take people

[Aphigal]

Is it true that chapters don't have to extend COR bids even if they are under quota/total?

Yes but it would be impact that chapter's long term rushing strength. Don't forget ANY women on campus who are f-t regularlly enrolled steudents are eligible to pledge in COR. Why on earth would a chapter not fill to capacity if the opportunity presented itself?

[kddani]

Yes but it would be impact that chapter's long term rushing strength. Don't forget ANY women on campus who are f-t regularlly enrolled steudents are eligible to pledge in COR. Why on earth would a chapter not fill to capacity if the opportunity presented itself?

If they're only a couple of girls under total, it may very well not be worth it to COR. COR costs money and time, and depending on how far after the most recent pledge class started, a COR class may have to be it's own pledge class, which is a big pain as well.

I also get a weird feeling from the poster who asked, considering her failed attempt at rush last year. The post just seems weird. Almost like a chapter that she's interested in COR'ing told her they weren't participating, and she wants to tell them they're wrong.

[kchen]

I also get a weird feeling from the poster who asked, considering her failed attempt at rush last year. The post just seems weird. Almost like a chapter that she's interested in COR'ing told her they weren't participating, and she wants to tell them they're wrong.My friend, an incoming freshman, got overly excited about COR because only 3 PNMs showed up, so she expected a bid from them.

I guess we know whose post is weird now.

[kddani]

My friend, an incoming freshman, got overly excited about COR because only 3 PNMs showed up, so she expected a bid from them.

I guess we know whose post is weird now.

Yours. No one is entitled to a bid. And COR events are usually much smaller, so 3 PNMs means nothing.

[33girl]

Yes but it would be impact that chapter's long term rushing strength. Don't forget ANY women on campus who are f-t regularlly enrolled steudents are eligible to pledge in COR. Why on earth would a chapter not fill to capacity if the opportunity presented itself?

Because the available PNMs suck?

Because the amount of pledges the chapter has is already more than they can handle? We all love hearing about the chapter of 50 (when the rest are 200) who suddenly gets quota of 45 one year because it means the chapter did something right in rush. We don't always stop to think about the mechanics of absorbing a pledge class the same size as the sorority.

Because the available PNMs suck?

Because as Dani said, it isn't worth the money and/or time?

Because the available PNMs suck?