40 acres and a mule? [Archive] - GreekChat.com Forums

three2tango

08-19-2002, 11:20 PM

I was watching C-Span yesterday and saw the African-American community speaking out against the wrongs done to their ancestors. They are seeking retribution for this evil. I watched them speak for over an hour and then changed the channel because I never really understood what it is they want.

I have just visited this website and read the 10 points.

www.blackpanther.org/TenPoint.htm

I am still not clear on the whole situation and I really don't agree with numbers 2,6 and especially #8.

I am sure that I am just uninformed so before I make up my mind I would like to know more about this.

Kevin

08-19-2002, 11:35 PM

It reeks of Communism... It's like just about any Communist agenda I've ever read except it is tailored to a specific audience.

I would imagine if they were awarded on all 10 points it would only increase racial tensions. If someone was interested in most of these things they could move to a "workers' paradise" such as China or Cuba..

LeslieAGD

08-19-2002, 11:54 PM

I'm probably going to get chewed out for this, but here goes...

I'd like someone to show me a group that doesn't feel they've been oppressed (besides maybe white men...reverse racism?). Look at the American Indians, the Jews, the Japanese after WWII. I feel that unless someone or their parents were the ones involved in slavery, concentration camps, etc, they should not be seeking "retribution." Honor your history, mourn the opression and wrong-doing that happened to your ancestors, but don't make it about personal gain as if it happened directly to you.

Rudey

08-20-2002, 12:03 AM

I would drown this entire thread with my intelligent words, but I am on a 5AM flight out of state to work with one of my firm's clients for a few days.

And this isn't about communism. It's about an oppression that is still alive to this day. It's about a slavery that never went away. It's about a nation that provides benefits derived off this oppression to new immigrants from all over the world to this day whose ancestors never owned slaves and feel they owe no reparations. It's about the 40 acres and a mule and much more that many people were entitled to but never received.

-Rudey
--And with that, when I return I will totally reverse course and discuss why I do NOT believe in reparations. Smooooooochies.

PotentialPledge

08-20-2002, 12:29 AM

I am proud to call my self an African-American, but I do not agree with the views of the Black Panthers. Honestly I dont know what should be done as far as reparations. It was wrong and evil to take Africans by force from their homeland and enslave them to work in fields, however reparations would be very complexed to distribute. I think it was great that President Clinton made a formal apology for slavery and Im content with that. This is a very complexed issue that involves many factors, too many to go into at 12:30 am. Ill post more of my thoughts tomorrow when Im more coherent. I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on this.

PotentialPledge

08-20-2002, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by Rudey
I would drown this entire thread with my intelligent words, but I am on a 5AM flight out of state to work with one of my firm's clients for a few days.

And this isn't about communism. It's about an oppression that is still alive to this day. It's about a slavery that never went away. It's about a nation that provides benefits derived off this oppression to new immigrants from all over the world to this day whose ancestors never owned slaves and feel they owe no reparations. It's about the 40 acres and a mule and much more that many people were entitled to but never received.

-Rudey
--And with that, when I return I will totally reverse course and discuss why I do NOT believe in reparations. Smooooooochies.

I agree Rudey, looking forward to your next post.

KnowledgeEternal

08-20-2002, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by LeslieAGD
I'd like someone to show me a group that doesn't feel they've been oppressed (besides maybe white men...reverse racism?). Look at the American Indians, the Jews, the Japanese after WWII.American Indians, to this day are compensated for something that started almost 100 years before slavery became rampant in the US. If you are a registered Native American you can go to any state school free of charge. I don't know how Jews have been oppressed in the US. Some Japanese people were put into camps during WW2 were they treated as slaves/lynched? No. As a matter of fact, the US dropped two H-Bombs on Japan and then turned around and gave them all the money to rebuild their country in addition to rewriting their constitution and redesigning many aspects of their govt.

Personally, I am against giving every African American a check for X amount of money; but I feel that saying their claims are unsubstantiated is ridiculous.

Dionysus

08-20-2002, 12:52 AM

I'm so embarrassed to ask this, because I should know this: What is capitalism and fascism?

three2tango

08-20-2002, 02:55 AM

Capitalism- the economic system in which all or most of the means of production and distribution are privately owned and operated for profit, originally under fully competitive conditions: it has been generally characterized by a tendency toward concentration of wealth, and, in its later phase, by the growth of great corporations, increased governmental control etc.

Fascism- a system of government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship, forcible suppression of opposition, private economic enterprise under centralized governmental control, belligerant nationalism, racism and militarism - first instituted in Italy in 1922 - a.k.a. Nazi

Nazi- characteristic of the German fascist political party founded in 1919 and abolished in 1945: Under Hitler it seized control of Germany in 1933, systematically eliminated opposion and put into effect its program of nationalism, racism, rearmament, aggression etc. - a member or supporter of this or any similar party- one who thinks or behaves like a nazi

wreckingcrew

08-20-2002, 02:57 AM

sorry to interrupt the serious nature of this thread, but when i read the title that said something about 40 acres and a mule i thought it was gonna be a joke about uTexas and chrissy sims.

(any longhorns out there might appreciate the symbolism)

again, sorry to interject, continue your disucssion :p

Kitso
KS 361

LeslieAGD

08-20-2002, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by KnowledgeEternal
Personally, I am against giving every African American a check for X amount of money; but I feel that saying their claims are unsubstantiated is ridiculous.

I believe you misunderstood what I said. For example, I have a lot of things in my history for which I am angry about, and I have every right to my anger/pain/sadness, etc. But that's what makes it history; it didn't happen directly to me. I never said their feeling and their opinions are ridiculous, just that in my opinion people who look for personal gain under the guise of something else are out for themselves. (***This is not just related to slavery repartions, this is how I feel in general***). If the majority of people that were interested in reparations said: "it would be nice to have reparations for slavery memorials," "to give to the NAACP," "...to the UNCF," or "...for research into diseases that are more prevelent in African Americans" etc, I think more people wouldn't be as against it. And yes, I'm sure there are people that do it for such reasons, but there will always a group of people that say it for personal gain and those are the people that make others feel as though the claims - not the feelings, but the claims - are not legitimate.

PotentialPledge

08-20-2002, 09:38 AM

I agree LeslieAGD. Im not looking for any reparations, but it would be great if public school systems studied slavery a lot more. Freshman year a group of my friends and I were having a conversation, and they new a little bit about it. Also going to a state school anywhere in the country free of charge would be cool too. Wash DC has something like that already though, if you graduate from a DC Public High School you can go to any state school in the country for in-state tuition.

Optimist Prime

08-20-2002, 10:02 AM

I believe in reprations. I don't think you should be mailed a check personally, but I do feel that innercity areas, regardless of the majority color, because in order for an individualistic society to progress fairly, everyone should start from the same place. If you get ahead it should be because of your own efforts, not becase you were too poor to afford breakfast so you fail at life and never make it, or because you live off your parents grandparents wealth. Nothing in that list is communist. Democratic Liberal Socialist maybe, but not Communist. The Black Panthers are not a red army. Under communism you wouldn't have the Black Panthers only Communist party.

Corbin Dallas

08-20-2002, 10:37 AM

so slaves were promised 40 acres and a mule. However, generations later, there are many more blacks decended from these slaves, so should the 40 acres and mule be split up among each of their hundred decendents or however many? just a thought, not saying i agree or disagree with it.

I do, however, think that if reparations are ever given, that the person getting them should have to prove that they are a descendent of a slave. I'm sure most black americans are, but i'm also sure that somewhere out there, there are those that look no different than any others, who's relatives came here after slavery, just like my buddy matt, who looks like a normal white dude, like me, is only a second generation american born citizen, whereas my family dates back at least a few hundred years. see what i'm saying there?

RedRoseSAI

08-20-2002, 10:41 AM

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding point #9:

"WE WANT FREEDOM FOR ALL BLACK AND OPPRESSED PEOPLE NOW HELD IN U. S. FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY, CITY AND MILITARY PRISONS AND JAILS"

:eek: They can NOT be suggesting that every single black and oppressed (I assume by that they mean non-white) person in jail should be let free....right? If that's truly what they mean, they seriously need a wakeup call. While many people sit in cells, wrongly accused, there are people in the clink because they are G-U-I-L-T-Y. Do we want them roaming around?

As for #6:

"WE WANT COMPLETELY FREE HEALTH CARE FOR All BLACK AND OPPRESSED PEOPLE. "

Does that mean Michael Jordan gets free health care?

PM_Mama00

08-20-2002, 12:01 PM

Someone please tell me these are a joke?

I wasn't gona post on here, for obvious reasons, but after reading these I am so apalled (spelling) that an America would ask for all this! We want, we want, we want.... How bout working for all that?

And #9... what about the two cracked out African American men who robbed the purse off my mom's shoulder in broad daylight? Who were chased on a high speed chase, almost wrecked a police cruiser, drove up someone's lawn, and were found with crack pipes and cocaine residue in their car? Should they be set free?

And the Native American thing about going to a State college for free... I don't agree with that one either.

I'm so glad that not every person of a minority race feels the same about this 10 point thing. What a way to make urself look like a joke.

I'm Italian American. I want all mafiosos to be freed from prison, because they are Italian or Sicilian. I am oppressed because of this, and I will gladly take 1 thousand dollars for those who are in prison, or those Italians who have been killed by the mafia. Thank you.

Dionysus

08-20-2002, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Someone please tell me these are a joke?

And #9... what about the two cracked out African American men who robbed the purse off my mom's shoulder in broad daylight? Who were chased on a high speed chase, almost wrecked a police cruiser, drove up someone's lawn, and were found with crack pipes and cocaine residue in their car? Should they be set free?

No, they should not, if so, that would be an awful case of PREJUDISM!

Senusret I

08-20-2002, 01:21 PM

Way to go. I totally agree with you.

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
I believe in reprations. I don't think you should be mailed a check personally, but I do feel that innercity areas, regardless of the majority color, because in order for an individualistic society to progress fairly, everyone should start from the same place. If you get ahead it should be because of your own efforts, not becase you were too poor to afford breakfast so you fail at life and never make it, or because you live off your parents grandparents wealth. Nothing in that list is communist. Democratic Liberal Socialist maybe, but not Communist. The Black Panthers are not a red army. Under communism you wouldn't have the Black Panthers only Communist party.

KSig RC

08-20-2002, 03:31 PM

Isn't it interesting to look at the different ways of viewing these points?

What if we extended these points to all people - for instance:

"We want freed all people unjustly imprisoned."

"We want freedom, and self-determination for our communities."

"We desire full employment."

"We want decent housing for everyone."

"We desire free health care for those who need it."

These are made by simple, subtle changes to the wording to make them more universal - and no one could possibly disagree with the morals behind them, to my mind . . . right?

However, I don't think that reparations for slavery makes any of these happen, directly, so it therefore doesn't make sense to my mind. Giving somebody X dollars doesn't make them more educated or give them better job skills - however, opening the pathways to acquiring these things can come through money, so concentration on those efforts seems more appropriate.

Changing the system that ends with whites on top and blacks on bottom is the goal, not giving somebody a small amount of money to play with.

PotentialPledge

08-20-2002, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by KSig RC
Isn't it interesting to look at the different ways of viewing these points?

What if we extended these points to all people - for instance:

"We want freed all people unjustly imprisoned."

"We want freedom, and self-determination for our communities."

"We desire full employment."

"We want decent housing for everyone."

"We desire free health care for those who need it."

These are made by simple, subtle changes to the wording to make them more universal - and no one could possibly disagree with the morals behind them, to my mind . . . right?

However, I don't think that reparations for slavery makes any of these happen, directly, so it therefore doesn't make sense to my mind. Giving somebody X dollars doesn't make them more educated or give them better job skills - however, opening the pathways to acquiring these things can come through money, so concentration on those efforts seems more appropriate.

Changing the system that ends with whites on top and blacks on bottom is the goal, not giving somebody a small amount of money to play with.

BRILLIANT...I totally agree with you.

Rudey

08-23-2002, 11:51 PM

All the different groups you mentioned are totally meaningless in regards to your argument.

-Rudey
--I wanted to discuss this issue but nobody here would even care.

Originally posted by KnowledgeEternal
American Indians, to this day are compensated for something that started almost 100 years before slavery became rampant in the US. If you are a registered Native American you can go to any state school free of charge. I don't know how Jews have been oppressed in the US. Some Japanese people were put into camps during WW2 were they treated as slaves/lynched? No. As a matter of fact, the US dropped two H-Bombs on Japan and then turned around and gave them all the money to rebuild their country in addition to rewriting their constitution and redesigning many aspects of their govt.

Personally, I am against giving every African American a check for X amount of money; but I feel that saying their claims are unsubstantiated is ridiculous.

sugar and spice

08-24-2002, 01:18 AM

I wrote a debate-style paper in high school on slavery reparations, and I agree that they're just ridiculous. And it'll never happen -- there are too many loopholes where people could just walk in and be handed money.

However, I do think that the idea that Optimist Prime proposed is both more realistic and a better solution.

PotentialPledge

08-24-2002, 01:18 AM

I care.

Kevlar281

08-24-2002, 01:59 AM

40 acres and a Bentley (http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/columnists/3893163.htm)

Betarulz!

08-24-2002, 02:21 AM

Reparations for me are a touchy subject...I guess that I'm against the handing out of money directly to individuals, but I am strongly in favor of investment in depressed communities. As a sociology major, I've done a lot of reading on the conditions that exist in primarily minority neighborhoods, and found some telling statistics. The most telling one in my mind is that unemployment is the single biggest factor in crime rate for all races, and further that whites and blacks have the same incidence of crime among the employed populations and the unemployed populations - ie. that the crime rate among employed whites and employed blacks is almost exactly the same (within statistical values of error), as is the rate among unemployed whites/blacks. Simply put, the creation of jobs can lower crime rate undoubtedly.

However other issues are very interconnected. Namely education and the discrepency between academic programs at suburban schools and inner city schools. Education brings up even more issues about testing bias, and tracking systems and teacher expectations and so on and so forth...

I find it very unfortunate that some people are unwilling to hear crys of help in their fellow humans. As KSig RC pointed out so eloquently many of these demands are actually universal wants/need/desires.

Finally I think that everyone...no matter your political affiliation should determine how they can be a better human being. We, as greeks, often talk about reaching out to other GLO's, and working together to improve the image of the Greek System, and I'm sure that many rituals are based on this type of mutual aid and the helping of others in doing the right thing. Why can't this extend out to the others in our communities, states and our country? We can do all the philanthropy we want, but until we as voters elect people who want to create real change (and not just the candidate with the most cash) I cannot believe that any of these demands will ever be accomplished, nor will there be very many steps of progress to achieving them...

<steps off of mini soap box> As you can see it's hit a nerve with me...if anyone wants more information try PM me and I can give you some places to get information.

FHwku

08-24-2002, 04:01 AM

i saw the thread title, and i thought it was a coincidence because yesterday or before i was watching C-SPAN. i saw the National Black Farmer's Association have their Rally for Black Farmers.

does C-SPAN do a lot of stories on mules and congress?

AKA2D '91

08-24-2002, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Imus

I think whites should seek reparations from blacks.

PUHLEEZE, you all brought us here! It's your fault. Ya should have left us alone and not brought us on those ships.

Shoot yourself for that one!

PLUS, we do not have any money. All you will get are clothes. :p (you really do not have a clue, do you?)

For clarification: go to my post re: the Black Teen pageant for the definition of "you", so folks will not get it twsted.

ON a serious note: I see that the educational system (history teachers) have failed some. Did they not teach the unit that explores the 40 acres and a mule concept? No, it's not a joke, it's a serious matter. I guess the teachers just went to the part where the Civil War was over and the Emancipation of Proclamation was signed and Abe Lincoln was assassinated and that's it...:rolleyes: oh well...

Rudey

08-24-2002, 12:50 PM

In a large magnet public school in Brooklyn, I learned about 40 acres and a mule. But this was in the college level AP US History class since I never took the normal class.

-Rudey

Originally posted by AKA2D '91

PUHLEEZE, you all brought us here! It's your fault. Ya should have left us alone and not brought us on those ships.

Shoot yourself for that one!

PLUS, we do not have any money. All you will get are clothes. :p (you really do not have a clue, do you?)

For clarification: go to my post re: the Black Teen pageant for the definition of "you", so folks will not get it twsted.

ON a serious note: I see that the educational system (history teachers) have failed some. Did they not teach the unit that explores the 40 acres and a mule concept? No, it's not a joke, it's a serious matter. I guess the teachers just went to the part where the Civil War was over and the Emancipation of Proclamation was signed and Abe Lincoln was assassinated and that's it...:rolleyes: oh well...

AKA2D '91

08-24-2002, 02:03 PM

*bravo*!

Rudey

08-24-2002, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
*bravo*!

I can also touch my nose with my tongue and run real fast...real fast.

-Rudey
--Bows as people start clapping all around!

PM_Mama00

08-24-2002, 02:52 PM

Why doesn't Russell Simmons give "his people" money? He's got so much of it. Instead of having this whole "40 acres and a Bentley", dude.... I say all black entertainers and rich people help "their people". Then they can all be equal, and then have a fair argument that they are not equal because they lives in the slums, etc.

librasoul22

08-24-2002, 02:57 PM

K Sig, Optimist Prime...yes, agree with you guys 100%.

I do not agree with reparations...in monetary form anyway. I think Optimist's suggestion was wonderful.

KnowledgeEternal, other ethnicites cannot be compared. Okay, so Native Americans go to state schools for free. Well a vast majority are also confined to reservations where the government refuses to acknowledge them. Did you know that on Indian Reservations, the American criminal justice system holds no authority? So they are often crime-ridden and unsafe. Education there usually doesn't even make it to high school-level, so the whole free state school thing is a joke for them. Gotta know both sides of the coin.

Whoever was posting about all ethnicites being discriminated against... so right. Unfortunately, Blacks are the only group who have remained at the bottom of the hierarchy throughout history.

PM_Mama...all Sicilians/Italians are mafiosi? That would include me, partially. :) I think you are taking the 10 points out of context. It is not saying to free the guilty. They are asking for justice. Check out the demographics of the prison population.

Rudey, I think I am on the same page with you.

librasoul22

08-24-2002, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Why doesn't Russell Simmons give "his people" money? He's got so much of it. Instead of having this whole "40 acres and a Bentley", dude.... I say all black entertainers and rich people help "their people". Then they can all be equal, and then have a fair argument that they are not equal because they lives in the slums, etc.

Um....

Entertainers DO help "their people." Many entertainers give back to the community. However, the money that entertainers have cannot POSSIBLY feed the vast majority of people living below the poverty level. Come on now.

This argument made me kinda angry, because it absolves the government of their role in creating ghettoes and perpetuating oppression. It is not the ENTERTAINERS responsibility to provide food and healthcare to those in poverty. :rolleyes: Be real.

LeslieAGD

08-24-2002, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by librasoul22
Whoever was posting about all ethnicites being discriminated against... so right. Unfortunately, Blacks are the only group who have remained at the bottom of the hierarchy throughout history.

Perhaps, however, I feel that if Blacks focus on being "at the bottom" in the past vs. being equal now (or trying to become equal if they feel they're not), the only people they are hurting are themselves.

Munchkin03

08-24-2002, 04:00 PM

Freed slaves were NEVER PROMISED 40 acres and a mule. An abolitionist Congressman suggested it as a New Dealish way to get the freedmen on their feet. He ended up being assaulted by a Congressman from S. Carolina--with a cane.

Everyone likes to whine about the "benefits" (if that's what you want to call them) that Native Americans receive. Most of these people have probably never been on a reservation, where they can see for themselves the poor conditions our country calls "subsidies" for Native Americans. Alcoholism, domestic violence, illiteracy, and crime are RAMPANT. The same people who complain about Native Americans receiving reduced prices in housing, education, and other social goods (hey, after the HORRIBLE treatment Natives receieved in their OWN LAND, the government almost owes it to them) are no doubt the same people who think that if affirmative action weren't in place, they would have gotten into law school/been hired/gotten that home loan.

And why should Russell Simmons, or any PRIVATE CITIZEN, be obligated to give money to anyone? You don't see Donald Trump doling out funds to Appalachia, do you? :rolleyes: The government created the ghettoes--and it's their responsibility to something about them.

PM_Mama00

08-24-2002, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Munchkin03

And why should Russell Simmons, or any PRIVATE CITIZEN, be obligated to give money to anyone? You don't see Donald Trump doling out funds to Appalachia, do you? :rolleyes: The government created the ghettoes--and it's their responsibility to something about them.

Dude it was a joke. But I think it's funny that big money entertainers are promoting that blacks do this. (40 acres and a Bentley). Give them tips on how they can MAKE themselves successful, not bitch that they were "promised" 40 Acres and a Mule.

Leslie... you rock!

librasoul22

08-24-2002, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by Munchkin03
Freed slaves were NEVER PROMISED 40 acres and a mule. An abolitionist Congressman suggested it as a New Dealish way to get the freedmen on their feet. He ended up being assaulted by a Congressman from S. Carolina--with a cane.

Everyone likes to whine about the "benefits" (if that's what you want to call them) that Native Americans receive. Most of these people have probably never been on a reservation, where they can see for themselves the poor conditions our country calls "subsidies" for Native Americans. Alcoholism, domestic violence, illiteracy, and crime are RAMPANT. The same people who complain about Native Americans receiving reduced prices in housing, education, and other social goods (hey, after the HORRIBLE treatment Natives receieved in their OWN LAND, the government almost owes it to them) are no doubt the same people who think that if affirmative action weren't in place, they would have gotten into law school/been hired/gotten that home loan.

And why should Russell Simmons, or any PRIVATE CITIZEN, be obligated to give money to anyone? You don't see Donald Trump doling out funds to Appalachia, do you? :rolleyes: The government created the ghettoes--and it's their responsibility to something about them.

Um, is there an echo? lol

Leslie...that would be a good point except for one thing. If the past gets swept under the rug, how is anyone gonna learn from it? It is one thing to "dwell" on the past, you are right, that is counter-productive...it is a whole 'nother thing to make sure that you are educated and focus on how you can eradicate the results of that past. The only way to do that is study the atrocities that occured and acknowledge that this country wasn't founded by the noblest of people.

Anyway, doesn't it suck that the "American Dream" is all about getting ahead and suceeding...and for Blacks the American Dream is about "getting equal"? Doesn't seem right, does it?

LeslieAGD

08-24-2002, 07:39 PM

PM_Mama...thank you ;)

Librasoul, I wasn't referring to rug sweeping...I was saying, stand up and be a strong man or woman (and this goes for any race, ethnic group, sexual orientation, etc.). And this could very well be an entirely different topic, but there are plenty of cultural minorities, women, and gays who feel as thought they're trying to "get equal," not ahead...Blacks don't have a monopoly on this.

PotentialPledge

08-24-2002, 11:13 PM

The issue of blacks in america is a very complexed issue. In regards to getting ahead and beyond the "ghetto" my opinion is that there arent enough role models to show young african-americans how to get ahead. My parents went to college and successful and I am following their path, but some african-americans dont have anyone positive follow, thus we dont get ahead, and the cycle repeats itself. This is not an excuse, or the only reason why blacks seem to stay at the bottom, but this may shed some light on why things are the way they are.

Dislcaimer: THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION AND FROM WHAT I SEE IN DC!!!!!

Rudey

08-25-2002, 12:18 AM

Certain comments to consider:

Does anyone actually deny that work went on uncompensated?
Does anyone actually deny that those benefits are felt even to this day?

However why don't people see the difference between compensation made to other ethnic groups that makes it impossible to compare the situation of blacks in America to other groups? The situation of Jews and Native Americans/Indians (whatever they choose to be called) are not similar in one bit to those of blacks - specially those of black slaves. Anyone that tries is simply trying to piggyback another argument and they will fail hard.

Why isn't consideration given to other ethnic groups? Why not the Japanese who were put in internment camps? How about the Chinese who built the railroads? How about the Italians or the Irish? What about the Mexicans that truly live like slaves in many areas of America??

How can reparations be considered the first step in a series of actions to remedy the current situation of which black America, when none of the other "steps" are even discussed. An "apology" is discussed but that is rarely well thought out enough - even as to provides the apology.

Also is reparations a slavery issue or a black issue? Are there overlaps or are both mutually exclusive? What is it that falls in the overlap that is beyond simple slavery?

If it's simply slavery, why isn't more being done around the world to eliminate it? The slavery which is alive in direct forms such as the Arabs and the Sudanese and the more indirect forms such as sweatshops or strawberry fields?

-Rudey
--With the demographic changes in the coming years, it's not going to be this black vs white situation anymore.

librasoul22

08-25-2002, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by LeslieAGD
PM_Mama...thank you ;)

Librasoul, I wasn't referring to rug sweeping...I was saying, stand up and be a strong man or woman (and this goes for any race, ethnic group, sexual orientation, etc.). And this could very well be an entirely different topic, but there are plenty of cultural minorities, women, and gays who feel as thought they're trying to "get equal," not ahead...Blacks don't have a monopoly on this.

Agreed. But no one is really claiming a monopoly...who would want to? lol

My point is that knowing your history is the key to eradicating the pain of the past. And while I do not condone using it as a crutch, I DO condone using it as a stepping stone.

swissmiss04

08-25-2002, 11:29 AM

Really what's the point of getting reparations when you know that you didn't earn them, but rather received them as a "handout"? Doesn't that just further degrade? Besides, as a point to the whole slavery thing....they were brought here because they were sold off by their own people. It's not like a bunch of white English and Dutch people invaded villages on the Western coast of Africa and rounded up a few thousand. No! In fact, the more powerful tribal lords would capture whole villages and march them to the coast where they would be sold for money or some means of barter to white slavers.
And besides, right now look at the plight of all the people in Africa. Ebola, AIDS, poverty, hunger, female genital mutilation, rampant war, lack of health care, abnormally short life span, etc. I know things were bad here, but somehow I think today's African American's have it a hell of a lot better than their African counterparts. And things were done to all groups that came in that weren't WASPs, such as Germans, Jews, Irish Catholics, Arabs, Italians, Russians, Japanese, etc. And not all white families owned slaves, so to expect all whites to pay for something that wasn't necessarily done by all whites is in fact, wrong and unfair. And isn't fairness what they're seeking?

Rudey

08-25-2002, 12:16 PM

PotentialPledge

08-25-2002, 07:38 PM

I agree with rudey, you have to look at the bigger picture. In that period a lot of the economy was agriculture like cotton, tobacco, rice, I think soy too, amongst other crops. The government sold these crops to other countries. Slaves worked the land by picking cotton and doing other tasks. So thanks to the slaves the slaveowners profited from their labor. The beginning of the economy somewhat depended on slaves. How many slaveowners were out there picking cotton? Not many. I may be wrong here but I dont think many slaves were compensated for their labor.

PotentialPledge

08-25-2002, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by swissmiss04
Really what's the point of getting reparations when you know that you didn't earn them, but rather received them as a "handout"? Doesn't that just further degrade? Besides, as a point to the whole slavery thing....they were brought here because they were sold off by their own people. It's not like a bunch of white English and Dutch people invaded villages on the Western coast of Africa and rounded up a few thousand. No! In fact, the more powerful tribal lords would capture whole villages and march them to the coast where they would be sold for money or some means of barter to white slavers.
And besides, right now look at the plight of all the people in Africa. Ebola, AIDS, poverty, hunger, female genital mutilation, rampant war, lack of health care, abnormally short life span, etc. I know things were bad here, but somehow I think today's African American's have it a hell of a lot better than their African counterparts. And things were done to all groups that came in that weren't WASPs, such as Germans, Jews, Irish Catholics, Arabs, Italians, Russians, Japanese, etc. And not all white families owned slaves, so to expect all whites to pay for something that wasn't necessarily done by all whites is in fact, wrong and unfair. And isn't fairness what they're seeking?

True, many non wasps were treated differently but, I think you really cannnot compare how these people were treated to how slaves were treated. The only people that were imprisoned against their will were the Japanese during World War II. I believe that they were treated humanely, they were'nt beat with whips, raped or any sort of thing like that. I think most african-americans want to right the wrongs from the past. This doesnt mean with a check to every african-american. It could be with a museum to honor our unique heritage. For example the Smithsonian is building a Museum dedicated to Native American History on the National Mall, it would be cool to have something like that for African-American History, because we have contributed so much to this country.

Cool Fact: Benjamin Banneker a black male finished the very incomplete plans of Wash DC after Pierre Charles L'enfant left. I believe L'enfant quit because he wasnt paid enough. Someone correct me if Im wrong.

PM_Mama00

08-25-2002, 10:54 PM

And how can you say that the slaves were treated worse than the Jews being burned alive, after bein torn from their houses and thrown into concentration camps like wild animals? Do you see them bitching and moaning and complaining about how the Germans owe them? NO! And there are still Nazis out there, but you don't see Jewish people bitching everyday that they are oppressed because of what happened to their ancestors, and many of them are still alive today!

You people are making me so sick with all the comments about how blacks were treated so much worse than Jews and other minorities. I don't remember who said it but someone said something about Hispanics are still treated like slaves in America, and that's true. But are they bitching about how they ARE treated? NO!

This type of stuff is what makes people prejudice! I know it's what makes me prejudice. I have no problem with blacks, but once they start bringing this up and saying that they are/were treated worse than anyone in the world. Ok? Fine.... I just admitted that I am prejudice.... but I explained it so maybe some of you will understand. But for those who can't--- I have absolutely no problem with people of a different color, but when they try to give the guilt trip, I am NOT havin it!

chantillylace55

08-25-2002, 11:04 PM

PM_Mama

WORD

xoxo
chantillylace

Rudey

08-25-2002, 11:12 PM

Well I'll step up and say I don't agree with you guys. The situation of any minority, whether it be black or Jewish is fundamentally and completely different. There is no comparison and I don't have the time to really discuss it.

I have to catch a flight in the morning again to consult with another of my firm's clients, so I think this will be my last post for about a week.

-Rudey
--Someone please shoot me...I can't keep working over 70 hours every week.

KillarneyRose

08-25-2002, 11:20 PM

The "Ten Points" referred to at the beginning of the thread; is that real or is it a parody of something that was written at an earlier time?

If it is the latter, can someone please tell me where I can find the points on which the parody is based?

I think the subject is very interesting but, of course, it's hard for me to form an opinion on the Ten Points because I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take them seriously or not.

Thanks!

Steeltrap

08-25-2002, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
And how can you say that the slaves were treated worse than the Jews being burned alive, after bein torn from their houses and thrown into concentration camps like wild animals? Do you see them bitching and moaning and complaining about how the Germans owe them? NO! And there are still Nazis out there, but you don't see Jewish people bitching everyday that they are oppressed because of what happened to their ancestors, and many of them are still alive today!

You people are making me so sick with all the comments about how blacks were treated so much worse than Jews and other minorities. I don't remember who said it but someone said something about Hispanics are still treated like slaves in America, and that's true. But are they bitching about how they ARE treated? NO!

This type of stuff is what makes people prejudice! I know it's what makes me prejudice. I have no problem with blacks, but once they start bringing this up and saying that they are/were treated worse than anyone in the world. Ok? Fine.... I just admitted that I am prejudice.... but I explained it so maybe some of you will understand. But for those who can't--- I have absolutely no problem with people of a different color, but when they try to give the guilt trip, I am NOT havin it!

Lord have mercy.
And to think that somebody who's allegedly becoming EDUCATED posted this. I'm not just speaking of the sentiments, I'm speaking of the poor grammar. Presentation does matter.

On a serious tip, what a piece of ugly, hateful garbage this post is.

I really didn't want to respond to this, because I pride myself on my sense of decorum and refinement, and I also dislike how many people who post on here take topics off in ridiculous tangents.

But this couldn't go unchecked. And frankly, I'm pleased that I read this because ignorance should be exposed.

Rudey

08-25-2002, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
The "Ten Points" referred to at the beginning of the thread; is that real or is it a parody of something that was written at an earlier time?

If it is the latter, can someone please tell me where I can find the points on which the parody is based?

I think the subject is very interesting but, of course, it's hard for me to form an opinion on the Ten Points because I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take them seriously or not.

Thanks!

:) Didn't think you would pick this up. I was wondering when someone would actually bring this up but nobody has yet.

David Horowitz plastered ads in university newspapers around the country on this. Everyone considers him full of hot air though. His ideas do hold a LOT of validity but the guy is out to make money and gain fame and it took people a while for people to understand that. Sadly he presents his ideas in a way to provoke a reaction and dismisses all opposing sides swiftly.

After the ads, before kids realized what he was really about, lots of campus fired up about this with Berkeley being at the head I believe. Several other campuses did not publish the ad and an issue of free speech and censorship arose from it.

He actually spoke at my school and kids saw where his argument was coming from, but he was really harsh. This guy is mean when it comes to someone asking him something that he thinks goes against what he believes. Once again, it's all a part of his desire for wealth and fame and nothing more.

http://www.adversity.net/reparations/anti_reparations_ad.htm

-Rudey
--In the end, the anti-globalist pro-rally white kids who don't wash their hair went home and all discussion of reparations was left for the black audience.

KillarneyRose

08-26-2002, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by Rudey

:) Didn't think you would pick this up. I was wondering when someone would actually bring this up but nobody has yet.

David Horowitz plastered ads in university newspapers around the country on this. Everyone considers him full of hot air though. His ideas do hold a LOT of validity but the guy is out to make money and gain fame and it took people a while for people to understand that. Sadly he presents his ideas in a way to provoke a reaction and dismisses all opposing sides swiftly.

After the ads, before kids realized what he was really about, lots of campus fired up about this with Berkeley being at the head I believe. Several other campuses did not publish the ad and an issue of free speech and censorship arose from it.

He actually spoke at my school and kids saw where his argument was coming from, but he was really harsh. This guy is mean when it comes to someone asking him something that he thinks goes against what he believes. Once again, it's all a part of his desire for wealth and fame and nothing more.

http://www.adversity.net/reparations/anti_reparations_ad.htm

-Rudey
--In the end, the anti-globalist pro-rally white kids who don't wash their hair went home and all discussion of reparations was left for the black audience.

Oh, okay. I think I understand the whole thing now.

Rudy, you're saying that the "Ten Points" was written as a counter-argument to Horowitz's ads? If that is the case, I am extremely disappointed in the author of "Ten Points".

He had the opportunity to rebut Horowitz's claims in a rational, deliberate manner but he chose instead to compose what I can only term a diatribe. If the author is indeed in favor or reparations, why did he choose to send the argument into the realm of Theatre of the Absurd (I KNEW I could find a use for that dang English degree!)?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The following was added after my original post....

I just thought of something. Were the Ten Points written in an ironic vein? Like perhaps the author is actually against reparations and so is trying to undermine the pro-reparations cause by publishing that?

Okay, I'm off to bed now! Goodnight, GreekChat! Go to sleep, Rudey!

Dionysus

08-26-2002, 12:19 AM

Rudey

08-26-2002, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by KillarneyRose

Oh, okay. I think I understand the whole thing now.

Rudy, you're saying that the "Ten Points" was written as a counter-argument to Horowitz's ads? If that is the case, I am extremely disappointed in the author of "Ten Points".

He had the opportunity to rebut Horowitz's claims in a rational, deliberate manner but he chose instead to compose what I can only term a diatribe. If the author is indeed in favor or reparations, why did he choose to send the argument into the realm of Theatre of the Absurd (I KNEW I could find a use for that dang English degree!)?

I would guess that it was, but I'm not sure simply because these 10 point arguments are used every now and then. All I know is that there is a lot of hot air in all these people - from the supporters to the opposers. Everyone piggybacks the situation for their own personal benefit. Horowitz is almost forgotten, and I could say the same about the new Black Panthers in a sense. How about the white kids that all of a sudden became pro-reparations but went away just as quickly as they appeared? All forgotten.

-Rudey
--Ha ha I liked the last line. I'm out for a week. Take care everyone and play nice ;)

KillarneyRose

08-26-2002, 12:30 AM

I can't remember who brought up Jews not demanding restitution for what they suffered at the hands of the Nazis, but I copied this from a book review site and thought it might be of some interest...

Paying for the Past: The Struggle over Reparations for Surviving Victims of the Nazi Terror

Authors: Christian Pross, Belinda Cooper and Erich H. Loewy

Publisher: John Hopkins University Press, 276 pages, May 1998

Pross untangles the complicated history of reparations in West Germany, from the American military government’s 1947 law Number 59 (Restitution of Property Stolen in the Course of the "Aryanization of the Economy") to West Germany’s Federal Restitution law of 1957, and into the 1970’s.

Ok, NOW I'm REALLY off to bed! :)

PM_Mama00

08-26-2002, 12:40 AM

Dionysus.... I agree with you. My reason for mentioning all that is because people keep saying that what happened to African Americans back then is so much worse than what happened to all these other people. And someone said you can't compare them. That's right, you can't. No ones problems are exactly the same, and no one's problems are more trivial than the next person's. That is what is angering me the most is that people keep bringing that up. That is why I asked if any of those minorities were complaining. Not to compare them, I'm sorry if that is what yall got out of it.

And I did not mean to offend the African Americans of America. I'm sorry if I did. If Hispanics always made it a Hispanic thing, or Asians always made it an Asian thing, I would feel the same. Even if whites did that. Do you think I like the KKK? No I don't. I don't agree with hating people just for what they look like, talk like, etc. If I were to meet one of you on the street one day, I may become friends with you. But the moment that you brought up well this this and this is cuz I'm black, then forget it.

Comedians even joke about it. There was an episode on Fresh Prince where he was like "....cuz I'm black", jokingly. Is it wrong for him to say that too? Prolly not cuz he is black.

And to Steel Trap... your mailbox was full so I'll respond here.
If you felt the need to report me, then fine. But how dare you tell me not to post. Who are you? My BGLO thread a while back was not to offend, altho I did involuntarily. I also posted on there that I now understand the history. My thread was for information, not starting a race war. I do not have a small mind. I have an open mind. I give everyone a chance, but when they do something to irk me, I reconsider. Obviously I add something constructive as well as other GCers on this board.... a heated debate. You have a moral sickness, child. Deal with it. No. My morals are quite alright, thank you.

How many people in this thread did you report? That is what I"m wondering, but don't worry I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Oh yeah, and I am in the middle of being educated, so I don't have to sit around and deal drugs and collect food stamps for the rest of my life (lol Rick). That was an inside joke, so DON"T take it personally anyone.

Rudey

08-26-2002, 12:41 AM

OK I promise I'm sleeping after I write this. The Jewish situation is not comparable. The two main reasons are because that was not a situation that occured on American soil (although the turning back of Jews who would otherwise die and did die can be comparable) and also, mainly, because of the law applied. This was not simply a restitution for forced labor (or compensation for the precise desire to drive to extinction a large group of people) but also a restitution for stolen property and money.

Several countries and groups after the war have applied this law. The fact is that Jewish money is still in the hands of many Europeans also. The neutral Swiss certainly believe in being a part of the bandits of Europe.

-Rudey
--I promise i'm closing my window now, but please remember that this is not an issue where we compare different minorities. Play nice, for I will return soon.

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
I can't remember who brought up Jews not demanding restitution for what they suffered at the hands of the Nazis, but I copied this from a book review site and thought it might be of some interest...

Paying for the Past: The Struggle over Reparations for Surviving Victims of the Nazi Terror

Authors: Christian Pross, Belinda Cooper and Erich H. Loewy

Publisher: John Hopkins University Press, 276 pages, May 1998

Pross untangles the complicated history of reparations in West Germany, from the American military government’s 1947 law Number 59 (Restitution of Property Stolen in the Course of the "Aryanization of the Economy") to West Germany’s Federal Restitution law of 1957, and into the 1970’s.

Ok, NOW I'm REALLY off to bed! :)

Steeltrap

08-26-2002, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
And to Steel Trap... your mailbox was full so I'll respond here.
If you felt the need to report me, then fine. But how dare you tell me not to post. Who are you? My BGLO thread a while back was not to offend, altho I did involuntarily. I also posted on there that I now understand the history. My thread was for information, not starting a race war. I do not have a small mind. I have an open mind. I give everyone a chance, but when they do something to irk me, I reconsider. Obviously I add something constructive as well as other GCers on this board.... a heated debate. . No. My morals are quite alright, thank you.

How many people in this thread did you report? That is what I"m wondering, but don't worry I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Oh yeah, and I am in the middle of being educated, so I don't have to sit around and deal drugs and collect food stamps for the rest of my life (lol Rick). That was an inside joke, so DON"T take it personally anyone.[/color]

I surely don't take it personally, because I don't know you personally. Again, for the most part, I come here for amusement. I'm 16 years out of college and already have my piece of paper called a degree. I'm an educated, working, tax-paying person, not some creature that deals drugs and collects food stamps.
BTW, I'm a PRODUCTIVE member of GC who comes on here to meet my sorors and interact with others, not stir up the dung-laden pot.

As for the BGLO/GLO thread, if you had done a SEARCH, you would have found the information that you needed. I've been on GC long enough -- I lurked three months before registering -- to realize that these discussions often deteriorate into utterly retromingent diatribes.

Honeykiss1974

08-26-2002, 12:57 AM

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
And how can you say that the slaves were treated worse than the Jews being burned alive, after bein torn from their houses and thrown into concentration camps like wild animals? Do you see them bitching and moaning and complaining about how the Germans owe them? NO! And there are still Nazis out there, but you don't see Jewish people bitching everyday that they are oppressed because of what happened to their ancestors, and many of them are still alive today!

You people are making me so sick with all the comments about how blacks were treated so much worse than Jews and other minorities. I don't remember who said it but someone said something about Hispanics are still treated like slaves in America, and that's true. But are they bitching about how they ARE treated? NO!

This type of stuff is what makes people prejudice! I know it's what makes me prejudice. I have no problem with blacks, but once they start bringing this up and saying that they are/were treated worse than anyone in the world. Ok? Fine.... I just admitted that I am prejudice.... but I explained it so maybe some of you will understand. But for those who can't--- I have absolutely no problem with people of a different color, but when they try to give the guilt trip, I am NOT havin it!

PM_Mama and Chantillylace..... WHY??http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/fragend/fragend016.gif

Gosh I don't know where to begin with this raving http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/sauer/sauer055.gifpost.(and also to the person that agreed with it). Except that just because YOU haven't heard other minorities "bitching" about how they are treated does not mean that it does not go on.

On a sidenote:
My oh my! I understand that we all can say things in "the heat of the moment", but seriously this seems to be happening just to easily and frequently with you. Not a good thing.

PM_Mama00

08-26-2002, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by Steeltrap

I surely don't take it personally, because I don't know you personally. Again, for the most part, I come here for amusement. I'm 16 years out of college and already have my piece of paper called a degree. I'm an educated, working, tax-paying person, not some creature that deals drugs and collects food stamps.
BTW, I'm a PRODUCTIVE member of GC who comes on here to meet my sorors and interact with others, not stir up the dung-laden pot.

As for the BGLO/GLO thread, if you had done a SEARCH, you would have found the information that you needed. I've been on GC long enough -- I lurked three months before registering -- to realize that these discussions often deteriorate into utterly retromingent diatribes.

I'm sorry but your words are just too big for my small mind. Did you say dung-laden pot? I'm also a PRODUCTIVE (3 snaps in a Z formation) member. Have you even read any of my other posts? And back then I was a young GCer... didn't know about the SEARCH (4 snaps in a Y formation). If you realize that these discussions often deteriorate into utterly retromingent diatribes, then why post? If you don't wana stir up the dung-laden pot, then why post?

GC is a forum for asking/giving advice, sharing stories, meeting new people, and what we've all learned--- debates. If you can't take the heat, stop standing over the stove.

-PM_Mama00
--you can put away your thesaurus now, you're not impressing anyone with your crappy pot.

damasa

08-26-2002, 01:01 AM

On another note, Honeykiss, where did you get that quote from?
I heard it the other day and I can't figure out where, and it's driving me insane.

sugar and spice

08-26-2002, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by swissmiss04
Really what's the point of getting reparations when you know that you didn't earn them, but rather received them as a "handout"? Doesn't that just further degrade? Besides, as a point to the whole slavery thing....they were brought here because they were sold off by their own people. It's not like a bunch of white English and Dutch people invaded villages on the Western coast of Africa and rounded up a few thousand. No! In fact, the more powerful tribal lords would capture whole villages and march them to the coast where they would be sold for money or some means of barter to white slavers.
And besides, right now look at the plight of all the people in Africa. Ebola, AIDS, poverty, hunger, female genital mutilation, rampant war, lack of health care, abnormally short life span, etc. I know things were bad here, but somehow I think today's African American's have it a hell of a lot better than their African counterparts. And things were done to all groups that came in that weren't WASPs, such as Germans, Jews, Irish Catholics, Arabs, Italians, Russians, Japanese, etc. And not all white families owned slaves, so to expect all whites to pay for something that wasn't necessarily done by all whites is in fact, wrong and unfair. And isn't fairness what they're seeking?

Yes, there were Africans who participated in the slave trade, a fact that is often minimized by pro-reparationists. Many African tribes had slaves from the rival tribes And of course it was not only America that had slaves -- most countries in Europe, the Carribean islands and (I think) even southwest Asian countries had slaves or at least participated in their slave trading in other countries. Still, that doesn't make it OKAY in any way.

Furthermore, many of the problems in Africa can be (directly or indirectly) attributed to the fact that the strongest and healthiest Africans were removed from the country and sent into slavery. I think it would be very interesting to see how Africa would have turned out if slavery had never existed. It would be a whole lot different, I'm sure. Not only would Africa be a lot stronger, but America would be a lot weaker.

As I said before, I think the argument for reparations (at least in their current form, i.e. direct compensation to all African-Americans by all non-African-Americans) is ridiculous -- but there is no way that you can argue that this country doesn't owe quite a bit of its reputation as "the world's only superpower" to the fact that we once had a legal slave trade.

PM_Mama00

08-26-2002, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974

On a sidenote:
My oh my! I understand that we all can say things in "the heat of the moment", but seriously this seems to be happening just to easily and frequently with you. Not a good thing.

For one, I respect you for posting in a mature manner about the way I post. Thank you.

For two... I'm Sicilian... it's in my blood to blow up in the heat of the moment. I know, not good... but what can I do?

It's cuz I'm Italian.... I know it's gota be because of that.

Honeykiss1974

08-26-2002, 01:05 AM

Thanks Damasa...

I got this quote from a discussion on the SGR board. Someone posted it as part of their response, so I kind of "borrowed it".:D

PiKA2001

08-26-2002, 01:09 AM

Have you all gone mad!!??? This is getting way out of hand. End this now!!!! There is no point wasting your time on this subject. The controversial subject of reparations has been blasted, thought over and criticized for years now. Will it ever happen? Only time will tell, till then, lets please move on.

Eirene_DGP

08-26-2002, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by PM_Mama00

This type of stuff is what makes people prejudice! I know it's what makes me prejudice. I have no problem with blacks, but once they start bringing this up and saying that they are/were treated worse than anyone in the world. Ok? Fine.... I just admitted that I am prejudice.... but I explained it so maybe some of you will understand. But for those who can't--- I have absolutely no problem with people of a different color, but when they try to give the guilt trip, I am NOT havin it!

Whoa!!! I cannot believe you typed this.... Keep in mind that you are reflecting your organization. This is why a lot of minorities think twice about joining historically white orgs...you will always have people who STILL think like you.

I cannot believe you said you have a problem with blacks who continue to bring this up. IF WE feel like we are treated differently and young black children are not treated equally in the public school system, we will continue to talk about it whether you like it or not. IF WE backed down from people like YOU, WE would not be as far as we are now. YOU really need to think about things before you say them.

~Steelstrap, thanks for speaking out on this Blatant prejudice.

PM_Mama00

08-26-2002, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by Eirene_DGP

Whoa!!! I cannot believe you typed this.... Keep in mind that you are reflecting your organization. This is why a lot of minorities think twice about joining historically white orgs...you will always have people who STILL think like you.

I cannot believe you said you have a problem with blacks who continue to bring this up. IF WE feel like we are treated differently and young black children are not treated equally in the public school system, we will continue to talk about it whether you like it or not. IF WE backed down from people like YOU, WE would not be as far as we are now. YOU really need to think about things before you say them.

~Steelstrap, thanks for speaking out on this Blatant prejudice.

I typed it. Yes. What I say may reflect my organization, but it shouldn't. And if you are gona think that all Phi Mus think like this, than I'm sorry but you're wrong. One of the great reasons for being in a historically white org, or ANY org, is that we're all different and have different thoughts. I wuold have no problem with a minority joining my sorority. It would add to the multiculturalism that we already have, which I like. I do not speak for Phi Mu... I speak for PM_Mama00.

As for having a problem with blacks who continue to bring "this" up... this= blaming everything that happens to them because they are black. That's what I can't stand, and I've heard African Americans say this themselves. I"m sorry if you feel that I"m tryin to get blacks to not fight for themselves. I feel that there are others who need to fight for themselves to get where they are. If you feel the need to fight, then go ahead and fight. Just don't give every white person you see who voices their opinion an attitude. In that I don't mean you, yourself. I mean whoever. I've been called a F***** white bitch (I brought that up in another thread), so what makes that person better than me? Or equal? To me that is what I hate. Double standards, and whites always being blamed.

I hope that clears up my post.

PhiSigCoco

08-26-2002, 02:39 AM

Just a little interjection...

A Portland Oregon based Talk Radio station is collecting dirt (yes, dirt) to send with a mule to this guy. They are attempting to get 1 acre by 1/4 inch deep worth of dirt.

Steeltrap

08-26-2002, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by PM_Mama00

I'm sorry but your words are just too big for my small mind. Did you say dung-laden pot? I'm also a PRODUCTIVE (3 snaps in a Z formation) member. Have you even read any of my other posts? And back then I was a young GCer... didn't know about the SEARCH (4 snaps in a Y formation). If you realize that these discussions often deteriorate into utterly retromingent diatribes, then why post? If you don't wana stir up the dung-laden pot, then why post?

GC is a forum for asking/giving advice, sharing stories, meeting new people, and what we've all learned--- debates. If you can't take the heat, stop standing over the stove.

-PM_Mama00
--you can put away your thesaurus now, you're not impressing anyone with your crappy pot.

Yawn. My suggestion is to go hit your books, and don't quote In Living Color with the snaps because after all, it was a creation of people who bug you.

BTW, I love big words. I've used big words all my life.
I like a good debate, but with people who are receptive to other ideas. And you don't seem to be, judging from your posts.
I'm too busy living to deal with pathetic cases.

Honeykiss1974

08-26-2002, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by PM_Mama00

I typed it. Yes. What I say may reflect my organization, but it shouldn't. And if you are gona think that all Phi Mus think like this, than I'm sorry but you're wrong. One of the great reasons for being in a historically white org, or ANY org, is that we're all different and have different thoughts. I wuold have no problem with a minority joining my sorority. It would add to the multiculturalism that we already have, which I like. I do not speak for Phi Mu... I speak for PM_Mama00.

As for having a problem with blacks who continue to bring "this" up... this= blaming everything that happens to them because they are black. That's what I can't stand, and I've heard African Americans say this themselves. I"m sorry if you feel that I"m tryin to get blacks to not fight for themselves. I feel that there are others who need to fight for themselves to get where they are. If you feel the need to fight, then go ahead and fight. Just don't give every white person you see who voices their opinion an attitude. In that I don't mean you, yourself. I mean whoever. I've been called a F***** white bitch (I brought that up in another thread), so what makes that person better than me? Or equal? To me that is what I hate. Double standards, and whites always being blamed.

I hope that clears up my post.

What does you being called a F___ W____ B_____ have to do with idea of being that person being better or "more equaal" :confused: than you? You still can't seem to realize that maybe.....
just maybe....
you just pissed someone off and that was it???

Oh Lawd, I am truly in amazement at some of things that just keeping coming this chile!:eek:

librasoul22

08-26-2002, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974

What does you being called a F___ W____ B_____ have to do with idea of being that person being better or "more equaal" :confused: than you? You still can't seem to realize that maybe.....
just maybe....
you just pissed someone off and that was it???

Oh Lawd, I am truly in amazement at some of things that just keeping coming this chile!:eek:

That makes 2 of us!

PM_Mama, do you really think that all of this is as simple as blaming white people for everything?? Sigh.

You seem to group EVERY complaint that you hear from a Black person under one category: Just another black person blaming whitey. Sorry, but not everyone IS blaming white people for everything. However, it is TRUE that the plight of Black people today is due to:

systematic

and

institutionalized

racism

and it is the direct result of hundreds of years of oppression (which, indeed, continues today).

I am glad you have said outright that you are prejudiced, you have been in denial for a little while now.

Jews and Blacks cannot be compared, nor can any other minority's past/present/future...and despite your rebuttal, comparing them is absolutely what you did.

PM_Mama, I cannot fathom how you can call yoursef "open-minded" and in the same breath say you are prejudiced. Does that make sense to anyone??

And yes, I too am tired of the whiners. I am very weary of those paranoid people who believe that everything is a conspiracy against Blacks. Not EVERYTHING is. But when it comes to the present ramifications of slavery, I am sorry, but that cannot be denied or refuted. And if it tires you to hear about it, that's fine. STOP PERPETUATING IT. Then maybe you won't have to hear it so much.

Eirene_DGP

08-26-2002, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by PM_Mama00

I mean whoever. I've been called a F***** white bitch.

And you wonder why....Sometimes I wonder how white people would function if they just happened to be born black or any other non-white ethnicity. So I'm guessing you are going to teach your children the same prejudice and racism that you have...

madmax

08-26-2002, 11:55 AM

Anyone that wants 40 acres and a mule is just looking for a free ride.

Bamboozled

08-26-2002, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Eirene_DGP
Whoa!!! I cannot believe you typed this.... Keep in mind that you are reflecting your organization. This is why a lot of minorities think twice about joining historically white orgs...you will always have people who STILL think like you.
I cannot believe you said you have a problem with blacks who continue to bring this up. IF WE feel like we are treated differently and young black children are not treated equally in the public school system, we will continue to talk about it whether you like it or not. IF WE backed down from people like YOU, WE would not be as far as we are now. YOU really need to think about things before you say them.
~Steelstrap, thanks for speaking out on this Blatant prejudice.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post. You took the words/thoughts right out of my mouth.

While it saddens me that a supposedly educated, upwardly mobile young woman (PM_Mama) would spout such nonsensical garbage, I am also grateful for her honesty. It keeps me on my toes, reminds me to never get too comfortable and reinforces that bigotry and intolerance are still alive and kicking in 2002, even among my peers. It brings to mind the saying, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". PM_Mama, you have really shown your true colors in this and in other threads, but at least you have the balls to do it. So, keep telling us how you really feel. And thank you for distancing yourself from Phi Mu. That way you're only embarrassing yourself and not your entire organization.

prayerfull

08-26-2002, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
For two... I'm Sicilian... it's in my blood to blow up in the heat of the moment. I know, not good... but what can I do?
It's cuz I'm Italian.... I know it's gota be because of that.[/color]

Well, PM_Mama - - you're prejudism ought to really start trippin' out when I tell you this....I'm racially mixed..

Sicilian (25%), Spanish (Malaga) (25%) and BLACK (50%).

Got a problem with that? You think you're blood is hot...mine is straight up boiling over the bull crap that you've posted on this thread.

Steeltrap

08-26-2002, 01:04 PM

madmax

08-26-2002, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by librasoul22

Um....

Entertainers DO help "their people." Many entertainers give back to the community. However, the money that entertainers have cannot POSSIBLY feed the vast majority of people living below the poverty level. Come on now.

This argument made me kinda angry, because it absolves the government of their role in creating ghettoes and perpetuating oppression. It is not the ENTERTAINERS responsibility to provide food and healthcare to those in poverty. :rolleyes: Be real.

How did the government create ghettos?

librasoul22

08-26-2002, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by madmax

How did the government create ghettos?

It is known as the Broken Window Theory.

You know how if you have a brand new, flawless car, you tend to try to keep it as pristine as possible? Then if you get in a wreck, you kinda let the rest of it go?

Same with ghettos. One broken window and people stop caring about the property values. If you take a look at the businesses in the ghettos, they are not minority-owned. Neither are the properties.

Ghetto living conditions are deplorable and poverty and hunger are rampant. The government has little interest in rectifying this. Also, the very EARLY government made it impossible for minorites to have the same rights as their white counterparts, by ratifying laws in the constitution and encouraging segregation. Although today such things are not condoned, the ramifications are undeniable.

BTW, as for your 40 acres and a mule = wanting a free ride comment from earlier...I thought you were kidding, but maybe not. Were you?

madmax

08-26-2002, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by librasoul22

It is known as the Broken Window Theory.

You know how if you have a brand new, flawless car, you tend to try to keep it as pristine as possible? Then if you get in a wreck, you kinda let the rest of it go?

Same with ghettos. One broken window and people stop caring about the property values. If you take a look at the businesses in the ghettos, they are not minority-owned. Neither are the properties.

Ghetto living conditions are deplorable and poverty and hunger are rampant. The government has little interest in rectifying this. Also, the very EARLY government made it impossible for minorites to have the same rights as their white counterparts, by ratifying laws in the constitution and encouraging segregation. Although today such things are not condoned, the ramifications are undeniable.

BTW, as for your 40 acres and a mule = wanting a free ride comment from earlier...I thought you were kidding, but maybe not. Were you?

No I wasn't kidding about the 40 acre and a mule comment. Anyone that wants 40 acres and a mule is looking for a free ride.

Why should the government fix broken windows that they didn't break? The individuals that broke the windows should fix them and if they dont fix them, then they deserve to live in a ghetto.

lovelyivy84

08-26-2002, 04:09 PM

Tom Earp

08-26-2002, 05:38 PM

Well, has everyone gottent off of your Chest about what we do not like about someone different than our selfs?

Hell, I am Not Prejudice, I hate everybody!

There are Preconceived Ideas of people and Races until you get to Know the PERSON!

If I did not like anyone on this site that was not white, what a Great group of Freinds I would Lose!

Your Race is Your Business but do not abuse it for our benefit as you are barking up the wrong damn tree!

We of different Races and Religuionsand Greek Group agree to disagree but piss comes to push We are together for what we have!:cool:

That was not for just Afro-Americans but every American that had No Damn Money! Let us get Real!

Should I hate OTW, Nina, Carnation, etc because they or different? NOT!:D

damasa

08-26-2002, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Eirene_DGP

Sometimes I wonder how white people would function if they just happened to be born black or any other non-white ethnicity.

We could turn this around for any ethnicity and it would make for a great discussion, as in what do you think life would have been like had you been born as another race? I like hearing the opinions from many of you and I would like to hear what you would think life would be like had you been born another color/race/ethnicity, hell we'll even throw in social/economic backgrounds (w/o taking a sociologist's pov).

On a sidenote, I would strongly encourage anyone (black, white, red, orange) to take some classes in African History, or something that I took, African American Literature. This course opened up my eyes in many more ways than I thought it could. This class taught me more in a semester than almost all of my classes have in three years. Sadly, I hated the professor at first because I thought she was giving me a hard time because I was white (one of only three white students that took that class during the semester). I later came to find out that she was interested in why I took the class and if I truly wanted to learn. Once she found out that I did, she began to "teach me" and I still talk to her about once a week.

Dionysus

08-26-2002, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Dionysus.... I agree with you. My reason for mentioning all that is because people keep saying that what happened to African Americans back then is so much worse than what happened to all these other people. And someone said you can't compare them. That's right, you can't. No ones problems are exactly the same, and no one's problems are more trivial than the next person's. That is what is angering me the most is that people keep bringing that up. That is why I asked if any of those minorities were complaining. Not to compare them, I'm sorry if that is what yall got out of it.
[/bold].

I think you missed my point, I was disagreeing with you.

PotentialPledge

08-26-2002, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by damasa

We could turn this around for any ethnicity and it would make for a great discussion, as in what do you think life would have been like had you been born as another race? I like hearing the opinions from many of you and I would like to hear what you would think life would be like had you been born another color/race/ethnicity, hell we'll even throw in social/economic backgrounds (w/o taking a sociologist's pov).

On a sidenote, I would strongly encourage anyone (black, white, red, orange) to take some classes in African History, or something that I took, African American Literature. This course opened up my eyes in many more ways than I thought it could. This class taught me more in a semester than almost all of my classes have in three years. Sadly, I hated her at first because I thought she was giving me a hard time because I was white (one of only three white students that took that class during the semester). I later came to find out that she was interested in why I took the class and if I truly wanted to learn. Once she found out that I did, she began to "teach me" and I still talk to her about once a week to this day.

Thats cool I really admire that.

librasoul22

08-26-2002, 08:28 PM

Bamboozled

08-26-2002, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by damasa
On a sidenote, I would strongly encourage anyone (black, white, red, orange) to take some classes in African History, or something that I took, African American Literature. This course opened up my eyes in many more ways than I thought it could. This class taught me more in a semester than almost all of my classes have in three years. Sadly, I hated the professor at first because I thought she was giving me a hard time because I was white (one of only three white students that took that class during the semester). I later came to find out that she was interested in why I took the class and if I truly wanted to learn. Once she found out that I did, she began to "teach me" and I still talk to her about once a week.

Damasa, I too applaud your efforts. It is so easy to sit back and say that African Americans need to stop "bitching and moaning" about racism. It takes a certain kind of person to educate him/herself about the basis of these claims. Hopefully you took this course because you truly wanted to understand another culture and not just because it was the only thing that fit into your schedule. In any event, I'm glad that you benefitted from it. Your efforts may be considered small in the big scheme of things, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

sugar and spice

08-26-2002, 09:02 PM

damasa

08-26-2002, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by Bamboozled

Hopefully you took this course because you truly wanted to understand another culture and not just because it was the only thing that fit into your schedule.

Yes, I took the class because I wanted to educate myself as much as I possibly could with this class, and at first I wasn't ready for the amount of information I was learnig. Once I started to understand, a lot more came to light and it made many things much more understandable.

librasoul22

08-26-2002, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by sugar and spice

Maybe because they fix the "broken windows" in richer neighborhoods, even if it was the upper-class who broke them?

I know, for example, that the city I live in is sinking several million dollars into a fund for "sprucing up" the middle-class neighborhood that I live in. They know that if they do, property values will go up and they'll get more tax money; thus in the long run, they're the ones benefitting.

Would they ever do that for the "ghetto"? No, because the people living there are there because they can't afford higher property values, thus taxes, thus eliminating any benefits that the city would receive. The richest areas of town just get nicer and the poorest areas just get worse.

The same reasons justify why there is so little money from the national budget going into education, the environment, etc. It's always about what will make the government the richest in the end -- so they can ultimately just spend more on defense and business -- and it's not about what's best for the people.

GREAT POST.

poodleNtraining

08-26-2002, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by madmax

No I wasn't kidding about the 40 acre and a mule comment. Anyone that wants 40 acres and a mule is looking for a free ride.

Why should the government fix broken windows that they didn't break? The individuals that broke the windows should fix them and if they dont fix them, then they deserve to live in a ghetto.

Having grown up in the "ghetto", I have to agree to an extent. That Broken Window theory is very true. I've seen it in this neighborhood. People are just content to live with this garbage. The drugs, the sex, the whatever, they just don't care. Now, the other side to that is the people who are in the ghetto by necessity, that just can't afford to live anywhere else. We were just looking at apartments, and they are EXPENSIVE even IN the ghetto. SO there are lots of people forced to live there. And you can't say well get another job, because if that's the case, you betta take a bag lunch to work and take cooking classes because McD's, BK, Wendy's ALL of them will be closed. SOMEone has to work there. ANd those that do need somewhere to go, butthe low cost places are triflin. And its not the government's fault.

But back to the subject at hand, I think that if all other groups imposed upon by the US have been compensated (Native Americans, Japanese, etc) then I don't understand why blacks shouldn't be. The 40 acres and a mule might be a bit much at this point, but there are other ways to face the issue. A#1, it should be mandatory for all school curriculums to include a section on slavery in addition to all other oppressions imposed by the US. We always wannna highlight the good and try to ignore the bad. It all needs to be put on Front Street. In addition to that, other financial reparations should be paid the black community as a whole, it would be too complicated to try and trace who's from a slave at this point in time. Besides its not as if there are a LOT of actual records anyway. But SOMETHING needs to be given to the community.

And all I can say to PM_Mama and other on her wavelength, is to get a heart and get a clue. If you were in an accident and someone wrecked your car, and their insurance company said they were gonna get you a new car on the same level as yours, and you had a Mercedes and they gave you a Yugo, you'd be at the courthouse filing papers ASAP. This is an even bigger situation, with the promise being even more critical. They said it, they owe it, end of discussion.

Bamboozled

08-26-2002, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by poodleNtraining
And all I can say to PM_Mama and other on her wavelength, is to get a heart and get a clue. If you were in an accident and someone wrecked your car, and their insurance company said they were gonna get you a new car on the same level as yours, and you had a Mercedes and they gave you a Yugo, you'd be at the courthouse filing papers ASAP. This is an even bigger situation, with the promise being even more critical. They said it, they owe it, end of discussion.

Hmmmm, good analogy. How about this one? Imagine a woman that is in college, doing just fine, working towards earning a bachelor's degree. She is at the top of her class, but she falls in love with a very selfish man and he demands that she quit school to come and work for him. She feels she has no choice. Either she concedes or loses him. He has just opened a new business, but it is failing and he is struggling just to keep the doors opened. He married her not because he loved her, but because he thought she would be a great assest to his company and he knew that she would work hard on his behalf to make the company into what he knew it could be. The wife takes on the responsibility and puts all her time and effort into making the company a prosperous one. She receives no pay and because she is working so hard for her husband, she loses contact with all of her friends and family because she is just so busy. She does this for four years (4 really should = 400, but work with me here) and as expected, the company takes off and becomes one of the most powerful and financially successful in the world. He is now a very rich man. In retrospect, the husband realizes that what he's done to his wife (marrying her because of her business savvy and not out of love) is not in the best interest of his livlihood, so he divorces her. (Note that he's not really sorry for what he's done, he just realizes that her services no longer benefit the growth of the company). Now, she's given up everything she's familiar with and she's done nothing but worked hard to help make his business thrive. In return, she gets a swift kick in the butt and is forced to make it on her own. She is left with no education (remember she dropped out for him), no money, no family or friends, and no identity. Is she or is she not entitled to some of the earnings she helped generate???

PotentialPledge

08-26-2002, 10:45 PM

great analogy, and yes she is entitled to some of the wealth she helped generate.

mrblonde

08-26-2002, 10:58 PM

excellent analogy, except to emphasize everyone responsible, Id make the girl a foreign mail-order bride, as there were a lot of tribal leaders in Africa who profited from the sale of slaves...

PiKA2001

08-27-2002, 12:23 AM

Very true, but on to a different veiwpoint. I believe in reparations, but not the kind that some african-americans are asking for. I dont remeber where I read this but I heard they(reparationists) want 8 trillion dollars from the US gov. They want this money to be paid to every african american in america. I think that asking for this amount of money to be mailed as a check to people is outragous. I watched a little bit of the reparations rally in D.C. on tv, and I was a little disapointed. It was the part where they had musicians and singers performing songs. The musicians performing were singing/rapping about "show me the money", "let me get my check". To me, it looked like they were more interested in getting that check than true equality. I do believe that money should be funneled into education/health/social services, but not personal paychecks for being black. I am very sorry if I have offended anybody, but this is how I feel.

PotentialPledge

08-27-2002, 12:29 AM

Pika2001 believe me those people at the rally do not represent all blacks. I walked past the rally on the way to the metro and I could not believe the things they were saying. I dont want a check just invest money in education and other services that all people can benefit from.

Bamboozled

08-27-2002, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by PiKA2001
Very true, but on to a different veiwpoint. I believe in reparations, but not the kind that some african-americans are asking for. I dont remeber where I read this but I heard they(reparationists) want 8 trillion dollars from the US gov. They want this money to be paid to every african american in america. I think that asking for this amount of money to be mailed as a check to people is outragous. I watched a little bit of the reparations rally in D.C. on tv, and I was a little disapointed. It was the part where they had musicians and singers performing songs. The musicians performing were singing/rapping about "show me the money", "let me get my check". To me, it looked like they were more interested in getting that check than true equality. I do believe that money should be funneled into education/health/social services, but not personal paychecks for being black. I am very sorry if I have offended anybody, but this is how I feel.

Please don't apologize for your beliefs. There is absolutely nothing offensive about your post.

I think the general consensus of all those that have posted in favor of reparations is that no one is looking for a big "come up" check in the mail. As you stated, reparations would be much better suited if its purpose was to level the playing field in terms of "education/health/social services". I believe that that is all that is being asked of the U.S. government.

Steeltrap

08-27-2002, 11:25 AM

I thought I wasn't going to come back to this thread, but I must say that I'm proud of what I've seen in the last two days. People have been opinionated, yes. But there's been a sense of civility and decorum. Hopefully, the tone of this discussion will stay civil.

As for me: I'd rather see a level playing field in terms of investing in education and meaningful job training. In this time of economic uncertainty and anxiety over job security, et al, I just don't think cutting checks would be practical.

Dionysus

08-27-2002, 12:19 PM

I think the issue of reparations is more of a principle than just recieving money or a free ride. However, even if reparations were to be handed out, what problems will it solve? How can it repair years of damage? More important, how can it solve racial inequalities today? It won't! A little economically for blacks, that's it.

PM_Mama00

08-28-2002, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by prayerfull

Well, PM_Mama - - you're prejudism ought to really start trippin' out when I tell you this....I'm racially mixed..

Sicilian (25%), Spanish (Malaga) (25%) and BLACK (50%).

Got a problem with that? You think you're blood is hot...mine is straight up boiling over the bull crap that you've posted on this thread.

Yes, I'm back from vacation and I cannot help but laugh at what everyone has been saying about me.

No, prayerfull, I have absolutely no problem with you being Sicilian, Spanish, and Black. That's pretty cool. Afterall, and I am not sure if this is true but I have heard it from numerous people so forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sicilians derive from Africans?

And to everyone else. I'm NOT prejudiced towards every African American on this earth. I have black friends. If I was prejudiced, I wouldn't be friends with them. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word prejudiced before... I should have said I just don't like them. I've said so many times that no matter what ethnicity someone is, if they were to do that (the stuff that I mentioned that pissed me off), I still wouldn't like them.

I don't like feminists. I'm a female. Does that help anyone out here? Do you now understand?

And I can't remember who said it, about me pissing off someone and gettin called a f* white b*.... I accidentally cut them off (which wasn't even my fault cuz I had my blinker on, they didn't), waved that I was sorry, and still got followed into a gas station and had my life threatened. If it were the other way around, and I used the word that I do not like and would never say, it'd be a prejudiced comment. That's the double standard that I hate.

To save anyone the trouble of gettin all pissy with me even more, and goin against the new forum guidelines of using usernames to insult someone, I will not be posting on this subject anymore. And I ask that you stop using my name or indirectly talking about me.

librasoul22

08-28-2002, 11:32 PM

Well I know you said you wouldn't be POSTING, but I have a feeling you will still be reading. So here goes:

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
No, prayerfull, I have absolutely no problem with you being Sicilian, Spanish, and Black. That's pretty cool. Afterall, and I am not sure if this is true but I have heard it from numerous people so forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sicilians derive from Africans?

Human life as we know it descended from Africa.

And to everyone else. I'm NOT prejudiced towards every African American on this earth. I have black friends. If I was prejudiced, I wouldn't be friends with them.

The age old "I have Black friends" crutch? Is so like 1998. lol
You can have black friends and still be prejudiced. Having a few token acquaintances does not negate the stereotypes that you have admitted to time and time again.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word prejudiced before... I should have said I just don't like them. I've said so many times that no matter what ethnicity someone is, if they were to do that (the stuff that I mentioned that pissed me off), I still wouldn't like them.

The fact is that you are still generalizing. THEM is a generalization. Because you have seen/heard a few people speak out in favor of something that you oppose, you now hate "THEM". Make sense?

And I can't remember who said it, about me pissing off someone and gettin called a f* white b*.... I accidentally cut them off (which wasn't even my fault cuz I had my blinker on, they didn't), waved that I was sorry, and still got followed into a gas station and had my life threatened. If it were the other way around, and I used the word that I do not like and would never say, it'd be a prejudiced comment. That's the double standard that I hate.

Double standard?? LOL. You can do the same thing if you want. If someone cuts you off in traffic, follow them and call them the same thing. Don't you think they will have the same reaction you do? There is no double standard, just your assumption that ALL Black people you aren't acquainted feel the way that woman did. Some people have road rage. It is not specific to one race or gender.

Also, if you would like to further discuss a "double standard" in other areas, feel free to start another thread. I am up for some educating.

wrigley

08-28-2002, 11:43 PM

I don't think that they will never be enough money to properly compensate for the loss of potential that was squandered as a result of this genocide(please correctly if I used this word wrong). Moving forward I agree that properly educating all american children to the horrors of our forefathers so they can learn from the mistakes of these elder statesmen. Black history shouldn't be focused on just a month. It should be an education all year with other ethnic groups. too. I took a peace studies course one semester and it was an eye opener There will always be those who use their race,ethnicity, etc... to further substantiate their opinion when it shouldn't be an issue. Let your opinion be yours and let the thoroughness of your answer be what we judge. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it can call itself a dog but you know the truth.