Formal Recruitment Suicide???

[PandaBear]

When I went through the sorority formal recruitment at my university, I knew by the "Preference" party where I wanted to be, and that this house was the sisterhood I wanted. However, my Rho Chi (rush advisor) told our rush group to be sure and put down both our first and second choice for a sorority. (If you've never been through formal rush, to "suicide" is to put only one choice down). But the way I viewed it was that if I didn't get a bid from my house, I didn't want to be in a sorority, so I "suicided". Of course it worked out well, and I was given a bid. But I felt like if I put down another house, and was given a bid for them, but not my house, I would feel like I had settled for 2nd best.

Well last year, a girl that went through really wanted us, but she put down another group as her second choice...well we didn't bid on her, but they did and she accepted. Yet she told me last month (she has been a sister of her sorority for A YEAR already) that she still wished she could've been one of us and that she liked her sorority, but liked us better. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif This really made me think - should rush advisors be telling these girls not to suicide? I know they still are because my little sister has been a Rho Chi for the past 2 years and she tells them not to suicide. Does anyone out there have stories about their choice to (or not to) suicide? And was it the right choice for you? I'd like some input so that I can maybe discuss this further with Panhell. Thanks!

[amandapss]

I think it all depends on how bad the rushee wants to be in the GLO. If she feels she can't put her whole into another sorority then she probably should just write down one org.

[Siobhan]

On my campus you are penalized for suicide bidding; the PX's make a point of this too. A couple of years ago a girl really wanted to join DPhiE, and we wanted her too. She suicided bidded and therefore was not allowed to join (which screwed us over too). But I think it's important to know that it all comes down to bids matching. It has nothing to do with whether or not you only put down one choice. If the sorority you want wants you then you're in.

Siobhan

[gloriajane]

Originally posted by PandaBear:
Well last year, a girl that went through really wanted us, but she put down another group as her second choice...well we didn't bid on her, but they did and she accepted. Yet she told me last month (she has been a sister of her sorority for A YEAR already) that she still wished she could've been one of us and that she liked her sorority, but liked us better. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif This really made me think - should rush advisors be telling these girls not to suicide? I know they still are because my little sister has been a Rho Chi for the past 2 years and she tells them not to suicide. Does anyone out there have stories about their choice to (or not to) suicide? And was it the right choice for you? I'd like some input so that I can maybe discuss this further with Panhell. Thanks!

I have to say that I really feel for the girl who accepted a bid from her #2 choice and to this day, still pines for her #1 choice. Sometimes the difference between #1 and #2 is not so wide, while at other times the gap in a rushee's mind between #1 and #2 is extremely vast. In some ways, Formal Panhellenic Rush really annoys me that as a rushee, you have to return to EVERY single sorority that wants to see you. I think sure, go check all of them out for one time only, but after that, you should be able to return to where you want to as a rushee. In my opinion, the way that Rush stands today, it is just a way for weak chapters to acquire extra bodies, and just seems really unfair to rushees and their happiness at university!

So many people seem to preach, "Give this sorority a chance". Gee, isn't it funny how "easy" it is for others to preach this line when they themselves got their #1 choice.

[mgdzkm433]

This is what I hate about formal rush, it not only can work against the sororities, but it can work against the girls as well, and that is not something we want. In a way I feel for the girl, but in another, I don't. She didn't have to accept the bid. She could have waited and attended a informal rush put on by the sorority she wanted and maybe have been picked up. On my campus, when formal rush is over, anyone who didn't get a bid, or didn't accept a bid can be picked up by a sorority so many days after formal rush is over. When formal rush comes around, we make it a point that there is no pressure here. If you don't get the sorority you want, you DON'T have to accept any bid. We do tend to look down on "suicides," but I think it's because they want the girl to be picked up by somebody, and if she doesn't get a bid, she will be disappointed, However, I think that if you really have only one sorority that you would consider joining, then by all means put that one down and no other. I think that it really shows how dedicated you are from the get go.



------------------
Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[ZetaAce]

What's a PX?

Originally posted by Siobhan:
On my campus you are penalized for suicide bidding; the PX's make a point of this too. Siobhan

ZetaAce

[PandaBear]

Originally posted by ZetaAce:
What's a PX?

ZetaAce



PX are the letters that the Rho Chi (rush adviser) wears during formal recruitment. This keeps the prospectives from knowing what sorority she belongs to. They are also referred to as "Pixies".

[ZetaAce]

Thanks! Now that prompts another question? Why would the PX want to hide what sorority they are in? Is it so that people don't think they are biased or what?

ZetaAce

[PandaBear]

The point of having PX's is to keep things fair. Like for our school, PX's are chosen in the spring semester (because formal rush is in the fall). The week after spring semester ends, the PX must take all letters and greek paraphanallia off her car, bookbag, etc. They cannot talk with their sisters on campus (even during summer classes) and especially not when fall semester starts up again. If they are caught speaking to a sister on campus then not only are they kicked out of the PX's, but the sorority gets fined. During formal rush, 2 PX's are assigned per group. The PX's are not from the same soro and they are in charge of helping answer prospectives questions, getting them to the right parties, and making sure there are no rush infractions during the party (for example, a rushee is not allowed to bring anything out of a party - we got fined once because we had confetti on the floor and some of it was on a rushee's shoe...of course the PX's were from rival sororities so instead of just wiping it off they had to go and write us up!) But not all PX's are like this - last semester we (and every other group) used candles (we don't have houses so all of our events occur on campus where it is against the rules to have lit candles) during a ceremony, so the PX just asked that we blow them out and no report was filed.

Anyway, the PX is your mentor during the rush process. She portrays true love for being greek, and the rushees look to her for guidance. They can't wear their letters because the rushees may feel compelled to join that sorority. Of course the opposite may apply - if the PX isn't very nice or doing her job correctly, that may bias the rushee against her group. Hope this helps!

[33girl]

Good topic!!!

I didn’t suicide, I put down 3 choices. My first choice was not only the one I wanted most, but the one I thought I was most likely to get a bid from. My second choice was a lot like my first choice, only larger. The 3rd choice was a really cool group of girls, but I didn’t feel like I would ever fit in with them – I’d never be pretty or well-dressed or popular enough. Any way, I remember waiting to get picked up at my dorm and thinking “oh $h!t, I hope it’s my 1st choice and not my second!” which it was.

I think I could have been happy in any of these groups, knowing they wanted me. But not everyone experiences that. We had a lot of girls in our chapter who had suicided, just because we were a lot different than the other houses and they would have felt hideously uncomfortable anywhere else.

If you are a sophomore or above, you’ve been around all the orgs for a while and know that there is only one you want and anything else would be a horrible comedown, then I would say suiciding probably is not an altogether bad thing.

But if you’re a 1st semester freshman and your whole view is based on what you’ve seen in formal rush, I would not suicide. A lot of formal rush is “show” and the one with the best show might not be the one that’s right for you.

Siobhan – I can’t believe they would penalize the girls and not let them join if they suicide. I mean it’s not AGAINST NPC rules, just “strongly discouraged.”

And Zeta Ace – re Rho Chi’s - yes that is so no one thinks they’re biased. Their whole purpose is to help the rushee do what is right for her (which is not always what might help their sorority).

[PandaBear]

Originally posted by mgdzkm433:
This is what I hate about formal rush, it not only can work against the sororities, but it can work against the girls as well, and that is not something we want. In a way I feel for the girl, but in another, I don't. She didn't have to accept the bid. She could have waited and attended a informal rush put on by the sorority she wanted and maybe have been picked up. On my campus, when formal rush is over, anyone who didn't get a bid, or didn't accept a bid can be picked up by a sorority so many days after formal rush is over.




Its not like this on our campus - if you put down QQQ as your first choice and JJJ as your second, and JJJ bids on you (but not QQQ) then you are obliged to wait one year before going to any rush parties (formal or informal) because you have to sign a form when you put your choices down that if one of them picks you, you are obliged to them. I know some colleges do this after signing a bid card, but not us. Once you put those 2 choices down, you are obliged to one of them if they choose you. Stupid, huh? Guess I should have clarified this! Sorry - but thanks for your input!

[equeen]

Formal rush for sororities never fails to amaze me...I can't imagine going through it, or even choosing a candidate (pledge) for my sorority based on this process. It just seems so impersonal! I understand that the matched-bid system works, and that's great...but it's not a mutual choice 100% of the time, is it?

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif Perhaps I'm opening a big can of worms here...however I do know that fraternity rush is not so structured, and yet it works for fraternities. Can someone explain the difference in rush protocols and procedures?

[ZetaAce]

I have learned a lot on this board, that's for sure! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

The whole NPC rush process seems a little bit harsh to me, but that's probably cause I don't know much about it. I have heard people say the same thing about the NPHC procedures!

I'm guessing that you don't have a lot of volunteers to be PX's? I couldn't imagine being on campus and not being able to talk to my sorors! I'd probably go nuts http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Having 'neutral' rush advisors does seem like the smart way to do things though now that it has been explained. Thanks!!

ZetaAce

Originally posted by PandaBear:
They cannot talk with their sisters on campus (even during summer classes) and especially not when fall semester starts up again. If they are caught speaking to a sister on campus then not only are they kicked out of the PX's, but the sorority gets fined.

[PenguinTrax]

equeen -

Actually it really is 100% mutual choice - if the potential member chooses sorority XXX and sorority XXX chooses the potential member, that's all there is to it. When a chapter member tells a Rushee "I don't know why you didn't get a bid from our chapter, you were on our #1 list!" she's lying. If the rushee had been on their list, she would have gotten a bid from that chapter. Not only that, only the membership advisor and membership chair make up those lists and they are kept strictly confidential. The general chapter has no idea who was on the #1, #2 or #3 lists.

Not every girl gets their first choice, it's true. And many will be disappointed but I strongly encourage any young woman that has received a bid from her 2nd or 3rd choice to go ahead and accept the bid. If it really doesn't work out she can drop and wait a year to Rush again. If she doesn't accept the bid, she still has to wait a year. At least if she accepts the bid, she has an opportunity to really find out what that chapter is about. More often than not, the rushee finds out that her 2nd or 3rd choice really was the right chapter for her and is completely happy.

I'm living proof of that and make no effort to hide the fact that ZTA was my 3rd choice. I know now that had I gotten my first or second choices I would have not been happy because I was choosing them because I wanted to be like them. ZTA was more like me already and welcomed me as warmly as if I had listed them as #1. I was on their #1 list - seems they knew what was best for me from the start!

An intential single preference ('suicide') is a risky tactic. Please check the thread "can you outsmart rush" for my thoughts on that matter.

Take care,
Barbara

[PandaBear]

Originally posted by ZetaAce:
I'm guessing that you don't have a lot of volunteers to be PX's?

ZetaAce



Hi ZetaAce - actually, on my campus anyway, people fight tooth and nail to be a PX. They don't have to come to rush practices during the summer (or 2 weeks straight before fall classes begin); they don't have to buy the tee shirts or other uniform (including a long dress for preference - which a lot of sororities require you pay for one that is made like the other sisters!); and they have a reason NOT to talk to their sisters that they may not get along with. Its like this in all GLO's that I know about on campus. One of our sisters (immature as it was) turned in her pin because another sister was chosen over her as PX! Stupid huh? I wouldn't want to do it because the amount of stress I would have to endure not being able to talk to my sisters. I do not like NPC rush - I think the first 2 rounds are VERY fake (especially when you consider that MANY sororities require their girls to smear vaseline on their teeth to keep them smiling all night!) All prospectives must go to all parties the first night, and the second night (because the sororities can only cut them if they don't have grades) so all you hear all night is "Where are you from? What's your major? Do you like the dorm you're in?" I much prefer the BGLO intake process that I've heard about from a couple of my friends. My AKA girlfriend said that she really felt important to them, and they to her versus a rushee who told me one night to "Cut the crap and tell me about all the wild parties!" I think there could be a better way on my campus (PLEASE remember that this is only what I know from MY campus so I can't speak for others!) I haven't checked out the rush forum yet so I'll move there to post on the topic...I'm still learning my way around! But I am glad you're learning from others - ME TOO! That's what this forum should be about! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif

[33girl]

Panda said:
All prospectives must go to all parties the first night, and the second night (because the sororities can only cut them if they don't have grades) so all you hear all night is "Where are you from? What's your major? Do you like the dorm you're in?"

Barbara - I thought NPC's policy was that if you KNEW you weren't going to bid a girl you were supposed to release her as soon as possible? So as not to get her hopes up.

I agree, Panda - formal rush can suck out loud! But I don't know of a better way to do it. I think the guys should have to visit all the fraternities too, FWIW.

[SilverTurtle]

There was a similar topic like this. Since we had no NPC sororities on my campus, we didn't have NPC Formal Rush, and I'm was clueless as ZetaAce, and still not far from it http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif
I asked then, too, what was different w/ the fraternities (because it seems a lot less complicated), but didn't get much response.

I'd still like to know, because I think the 2 methods of rushing should at least be similar.

My 2 cents

------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity (http://www.phibeta.com)
Phi chapter (http://homepages.go.com/~phibetaphichapter/index.html)

[SoCalGirl]

Sometimes I wonder if the PX's are really doing their jobs. I've lost count of how many girls during formal rush ask me questions about suicides etc.
I generally tell the girls that if they know that they would depledge immediately, or that they'd be completely miserable in a particular house, then to not list them.
I don't say "Yeah suicide it's great and you'll get exactly what you want." I'm honest and tell them that a sorority could want you too and still not get a bid.
Part of the reason for that is because girls put down BBB as #2 then freak out and "depledge" on bid day. That always pisses me off because then nobody wins. The sorortiy loses both the girl that wanted them and the girl who got counted io their quota. And both rushees end up unhappy.
Of course I do believe that girls CAN be happy at their #2 or #3 choice. But if they never give the houses a chance it just sucks.

[PandaBear]

Originally posted by 33girl:
Barbara - I thought NPC's policy was that if you KNEW you weren't going to bid a girl you were supposed to release her as soon as possible? So as not to get her hopes up.


33Girl - This is the way it is on our campus - so it may not be the same for other campus groups. All I know is that we have had several girls that we knew we didn't want (nor any other group) because of her previous actions - I'm not saying "we just don't like her..." I mean like more than one sister has spoken privately to our rush board about reasons she doesn't meet our standards. Yet we STILL have to invite her back the second night as long as she has grades. We don't have to invite her back to our 3rd night (for us after the 2nd night we can cut, and the girl must cut one out of our 5 GLO's). Usually the girl will get invited back until the 3rd party, but then cut after the party before she is invited to attend preference. We do this to "keep things fair" for the girl and to keep rush a positive thing (supposedly). It makes me mad because a girl actually told me she just wanted to party and that they called her "Tequilla Sheila" at all the frat houses! Yet she came to all 3 parties and was cut before pref! Stupid, huh? Anyway, I don't know how any other campus does it, but this is how we do it.

[ZetaAce]

My goodness! Why in the world would she tell you that they called her"Tequilla Sheila"!! That's just craziness!

ZetaAce

[PandaBear]

Originally posted by ZetaAce:
My goodness! Why in the world would she tell you that they called her"Tequilla Sheila"!! That's just craziness!

ZetaAce

That's why she was first on our bid list...YEAH RIGHT!!! It was really (REALLY) funny though because several of our sisters had asked their frat boyfriends about her (but used her real name) and NO ONE knew who she was until one of the sisters described her and a guy said "OH!!! YOU MUST MEAN TEQUILLA SHEILA!!!" THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HER REAL NAME AFTER A YEAR!!!! I guess its more sad than funny. But prospectives that wait a year before rushing should know that this kind of reputation (especially when you tell it yourself!) doesn't get you a bid! The third night she got cut by every soro because she told everyone this!

ZetaAce - have you seen the pictures yet??? LOL! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[ZetaAce]

PandaBear> I saw the pictures! LOL!! Good idea!

ZetaAce

[blu_theatrics]

I thought that my NPHC pledge process was complicated, but after reading this board I am completely confused, but that is just probably because I am acustom to one way of thinking. Thank you everyone who posted on here for teaching me something new.

I just have to agree with ZetaAce that I would probably go crazy not to be able to talk to my sorors, and plus I can wear any of my clothes....lol.

But what works for some doesn't work for others and i know that the NPHC seems confusing to alot of people in GLO's

So once again thanks for teaching me something new.

[Finer Woman10-A-91]

A HUGE EDUCATION FOR ME TOO!!! Everyone in NPC and IFC thanks for sharing!
Originally posted by ZetaAce:
I have learned a lot on this board, that's for sure! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

The whole NPC rush process seems a little bit harsh to me, but that's probably cause I don't know much about it. I have heard people say the same thing about the NPHC procedures!

I'm guessing that you don't have a lot of volunteers to be PX's? I couldn't imagine being on campus and not being able to talk to my sorors! I'd probably go nuts http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Having 'neutral' rush advisors does seem like the smart way to do things though now that it has been explained. Thanks!!

ZetaAce





------------------
Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

[PenguinTrax]

Yes, if a chapter knows that they will not be placing a particular woman on any of their bid lists, that woman should not be invited back to the last night (Preference).

This is not a Panhellenic rule, however, and sometimes women do get cut from a list after Preference. What happens is that a woman may have enough votes from the chapter to get invited back, but on the last night there not enough of a majority for her to be placed on a bid list.

Barb

[This message has been edited by PnguinTrax (edited June 16, 2000).]

[GammaSigPrez]

Originally posted by PnguinTrax:
equeen -

I'm living proof of that and make no effort to hide the fact that ZTA was my 3rd choice. I know now that had I gotten my first or second choices I would have not been happy because I was choosing them because I wanted to be like them. ZTA was more like me already and welcomed me as warmly as if I had listed them as #1. I was on their #1 list - seems they knew what was best for me from the start!

An intential single preference ('suicide') is a risky tactic. Please check the thread "can you outsmart rush" for my thoughts on that matter.


I am not a member of an NPC sorority but one of our sisters used to be... anyway, she said that you had to match bids exactly to be taken because its done with a computer... so if you put ZTA as 3rd and they put you as 1st list, at my school you would not have gotten in...
this is an example:
RUSHEE 123's choices
1st ZTA
2nd TriSig
3rd ADPi

ZTA's 1st list:
did not include RUSHEE 123

Tri Sig's 1st list:
included RUSHEE 123

ADPi's 3rd list:
matched RUSHEE 123's 3rd choice so she would go to ADPi

does this work like that at all schools?
my sorority has a non-selective policy, this means that girls come to rush and if they like us, they join, if not, they dont... it puts the pressure on us and puts US under the microscope instead of the other way around...

------------------
Visit GSS-Delta Chi Chapter Online
http://gammasigmasigma.tripod.com

[AlphaChiGirl]

GammaSigPrez...the rush at your school sounds a lot like the one at mine. Where do you go, and how large is the Greek System?

[PenguinTrax]

Originally posted by GammaSigPrez:
I am not a member of an NPC sorority but one of our sisters used to be... anyway, she said that you had to match bids exactly to be taken because its done with a computer... so if you put ZTA as 3rd and they put you as 1st list, at my school you would not have gotten in...


Actually this is the way it works...we'll use this preference list for example:

#1 CCC
#2 ZZZ
#3 AAA

The sororities have the following lists:

#1 - all their #1 choices in alphabetical order
#2 - other names, listed in order of preference

A chapter must try and complete their #1 lists first. If a Rushee on their #1 list gets a bid elsewhere, then they move name(s) up from their #2 list (and therefore become part of the #1 list).


The person reading the pref cards, announces that Suzy has CCC as her #1 choice, does CCC have her on their list? CCC says 'no'. The card is put aside and they run through all other cards.

They read thru the cards again and ask if CCC has Suzy on their #1 list. They say 'no'. The run through the remaining cards and place #2 bids.

The bid matching continues...CCC fills quota before Suzy name moves up their list. ZZZ has Suzy, but her name has not moved up to their #1 list yet. The third round starts. During the third round, ZZZ attains quota.

(Note: a gridlock/block condition can occur when, after serveral readings of cards, the rushee's preference does not match up with the fraternity. There is a system that is used to determine if the rushee will ever be placed with her #1 choice. If it is determined that she won't, they attempt to match the rushee with her #2 selection, and so on if it becomes evident that their #2 preference will not occur, either)

Suzy has AAA as choice #3 and it turns out that AAA has Suzy on their original #1 list. That's how you end up with a #3 choice on a #1 list. There is a system whereby you attain quota plus, but it is somewhat complicated and unless you really want to know how it's done, I won't list it here.

In the event that none of the rushee's preferences have bid her, BUT there is a chapter (or more than one) that has her on their list, the Panhellenic rep will call the rushee and ask her if she will accept a bid from the chapter(s) in question. If not, she will not recieve a bid and be eligible for COB (informal recruitment).

Barb

[me1952]

I go to East Carolina University in Greenville, North Carolina. The greek system? Do you mean just the NPCH, Panhellenic, and IFC? My sorority is not affiliated with those and neither is another service sorority and a service fraternity. There is a also a women's music sorority (SAI) and Phi Sigma Pi (a honors fraternity) that are known at my school. Then you have like the Beta Beta Beta biology honors group.. I guess you are meaning the "traditional greeks" (NPCH, IFC, NPC).. so this is what we have...check out this link... I just put it together... http://gammasigmasigma.tripod.com/othergreeks.htm
Originally posted by AlphaChiGirl:
GammaSigPrez...the rush at your school sounds a lot like the one at mine. Where do you go, and how large is the Greek System?

[me1952]

OOOPSSS>. I posted the original message as GammaSigPrez but i am on another computer and forgot my password... sorry for any confusion

[Indy2000]

I felt the same way when I rushed last year. I fell in love with one of the houses I prefed and would only pledge there. Unfortunatly, it did not work out for me, I got the 'wrong bid' I declined it and am rushing again this fall. I would recommend to 'suicide'for anyone who does not want to pledge at the other house.

[Princess2002]

Indy2000:

Are you still hoping to get a bid from the same chapter you wanted last year, or have things changed for you? The reason I ask is because my situation is similar to yours, and I also feel the same way---that a person shouldn't accept a bid just to join a sorority, instead that they shoudl really be happy with the decision they make.

[mwedzi]

PandaBear,

The rush process on your campus sounds exactly, and I do mean exactly, like the one on my campus. Girls are not allowed to join another sorority if they suicide, and that seems awfully unfair.

But anyway, every little detail you used to describe your formal rush, even the number of Rho Chi and how they are mixed and what now sounds like me old school. Where do you go to school?

BTW, at the time I put down 2 choices which was the max we could put and putting down one (unless you had been invited to preference night by only one) was suiciding. I thought I could be happy at either one, as I did not know the sororities very well and I did only know them from formal rush. But I realize now that I would not have been happy at the other choice. Thank goodness things turned out the way they did.

[Indy2000]

Princess2002:
I don't regret my decision at all, I did not feel like I could have contributed to the house that gave me a bid. I'm not deluding myself to think that I will get a bid from my number one choice. Luckily for me there are 16 chapters at UF and I would be happy at 8 of them.

You DO NOT have to accept a bid if you are not comfortable with it. If you choose to rush again and then pledge, the process will mean so much more to you. Good Luck http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[tommy7482]

I don't understand why sororities make the bidding process so difficult; it is so much easier with fraternities. If we like a guy, we give him a bid on bid day, if we don't like him, he doesn't get one. Plain and simple. You're just asking for disaster with a formal preference list, and all of the preceding week of mandatory rush parties seems pointless. perhaps it is just harder to get to know a sorority than it is a fraternity, due primarily to social reasons.

[prospectiverushee]

When I was pledging Angel Flight( a service orgainzation) their rush kind of work the same was as etienneSAI described. Rush I belives was two days, always held over a weekend. The first day was the getting to now the other people a brief explaination of the organization, perhaps a slide show,a few refreshments. The second day was the interview portion. After that the committe makes it's decsion and if you're selected, the group decorates your door. It's usually at the Candlelighting service.

[etienneSAI]

tommy,

i totally agree with you. i completely envy the fraternities on my campus, because they're really straight up about things. no "i'll invite you to four days of rush but not give you a bid" kind of thing. i remember rushing and i wanted a certain sorority SO badly, but they dissed me on the third day. i dropped out of rush and ended up rushing and pledging SAI seperately. it was SO much better.

SAI's rush on my campus is awesome because since we don't go through panhell like the other sororities, we can kind of make things up as we go along. we don't have PX's, we don't "snap-bid", C.O.B, drop rushees or anything like that. we simply have three nights of rush, ask the girls to fill our pref cards on whether they would accept a bid from us if given one and meet after the last night.
we go to our advisor's house and order pizza, movies and whatnot. then we sit at the table and look over grades, academic honesty issues and pictures we took of the rushees, in case some don't remember names with faces. then we do a blind vote. this means we put our heads down and our advisor asks us to raise hands if we're for or against a rushee. majority wins. if it's a very close vote, we'll discuss reasons for voting the way we did and later vote again. i think it's an awesome way to vote. we call the girls the next night and let them know either way, then while the pledge mom and her helper talk to the girls, we go into thier dorms or apartments and decorate thier doors.

all in all, i'm very pleased with my rush process. very democratic and honest.

etienne

------------------
"red is the color of music and has been since the very earliest of times. the caps of faeries and musicians are well-nigh always red."~*~w.b.yeats

[Kymberleigh]

I just want to say that when it comes to deciding where you feel at home then it shouldn't be all that confusing. I went through formal rush my freshman year with the girls on my floor. I knew where I wanted to be by the second night. I knew I was home when I walked in the door. I suicided on Bid Night, and I got a bid. I love my house tremendously.

One of my floormates that I was close to went through with me, when she heard me talking about how much I loved this particular house she suicided also. Telling me how great it would be for us to be sisters. However, things didn't work out for her. Three days later she was snap-bidded on by a struggling chapter on the campus. She accepted, and went through pledging and initiation. Two months or less afterwards she de-activated. The point of this story is that she didn't care what house she was in. She just wanted to belong. Her and I are still friends, and she realizes now that she only joined any house, because she wanted to fit in somewhere.

The moral of this, and my advice. If you are unsure, don't sign your bid card. To me your letters are forever. You are forever a sister of your house. So, you should know where you want to be, it shouldn't be a big hoping and wishing thing. If you don't get in to the house you like then chalk it up to not being meant at that time, and rush again. Don't settle, you'll never be completely happy.

[Silvergal25]

Could someone explain to me what a snap bid is? I'm a little confused. Thanks. :-)

[canadajen]

I agree ... this is a great topic!! I actually attend the same school as Siobhan, but I have a bit of a different take on the suicide bidding thing ... Rho chi's are told to discourage PNMs (potential new members)from suicide bidding, & to inform them about the risks during the matching process; However, I don't know about suicide bidding being penalized here at our school (University of British Columbia (UBC)), or understand what indeed happened with the situation a couple of years ago. The reason that I say this is because I myself did indeed 'suicide bid' successfully.

What I can tell you all is how scary it was to wait for what seemed like eternity to see if I would get the dreaded phone call. When PNM are not extended a bid at our school, they are contacted before they show up for Bids Day. When I didn't get that phone call, I still wasn't sure ... it was torture waiting all night & day to find out for sure!! But in the end, it did work out for me http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif) Sadly, I know that it doesn't always turn out like this.

My best advice ... follow your heart, but don't be too quick to cut out a sorority & potential sisters that could very well end up being the right choice after all (if that makes sense).

I swear that I asked everyone as I went through Rush - how will I know which one is right for me? - and the answer was always the same - "you'll just know." And they we're right.

Best of luck to everyone during rush & be sure to keep us posted!!!

[canadajen]

Originally posted by PnguinTrax:
Yes, if a chapter knows that they will not be placing a particular woman on any of their bid lists, that woman should not be invited back to the last night (Preference).

This is not a Panhellenic rule, however, and sometimes women do get cut from a list after Preference. What happens is that a woman may have enough votes from the chapter to get invited back, but on the last night there not enough of a majority for her to be placed on a bid list.

Barb

[This message has been edited by PnguinTrax (edited June 16, 2000).]

To my knowledge, I think that this is at least a Panhellenic rule on our campus that any PNM that is invited to sorority's pref night must be on that org's bid list ... I'm curious, is this the case elsewhere?? ...

[Kymberleigh]

A snap bid is where a sorority extends a bid to a girl who didn't get picked up by a house during Bid Matching at the end of rush. Houses are allowed to extend snap bids to girls who went through rush but were not invited to pledge a house. Snap bidding occurs right after bids are given out, and that person can chose to except or decline. A person can recieve numerous snap bids. A house can extend and except snap bids untill they reach rush quotta.

That's how it works on my campus

[MooseGirl]

I find all of this so interesting...i never had a full understanding of formal recruitment. On my camous there are 2 npc and 1 local bglo. Us 2 npc do not have formal rush because it does not work...we only have about 10 members each, and greek life is not really important to a lot of students here. we have tried in the past to do formal and have failed miserably. So we just stick to having 2-3 info nights and a pref...keep things simple. the girls decide if they want to come back to the parties or not.

now i really understand the challenges that my sister chapters go throught to recruit.

Jen

[twigs344]

What does GLO stand for?

[Microbiomajor]

Okay, I'm going to answer a few questions that have been asked throughout this whole board.

Suicide, et al....
At my school, if a woman signs her card after preference night, she is obligated to join one of the two sororites if she is given a bid. If she is not given a bid she is free to go wherever. If she gets a bid, and does not accept it, she may not rush again for one calendar year. I personally suicided my chapter because I knew it was where I had to be and, although I respected my other pref, I just knew I wouldn't put my all into it. I am very happy with my decision.

PX and suicide...
I was also a PX last year, and our advice to women was not to suicide, BUT if they were very seriously considering it, they were not penalized, we just had to explain that there was a higher chance of them not getting a bid. It was their decision to make and we could only help them in the process. After pref night, we counseled women who needed help, and then they were sent off to a room to fill out their cards without us (PXs) so we never knew their choices. Every other night we saw their cards so we knew how they would react the next day i.e. if they were getting their top choices or last choices.

On being a PX...
It was hands down the best experience of my life. We had a huge form to fill out, with 8 essay questions, plus general info, and an interview just to be selected. People talk about the bad things like disaffiliation, but I truly believe that being away from your chapter makes you love it more. Plus you form bonds of sisterhood with all your fellow PXs. You go through so much together. And helping the women go through formal rush is one of the most exciting feelings in the world. Being there for the highs and lows, answering their questions. In a way, they become your children. You take all their feelings to heart and you get to live one of the most exciting times in your life all over again.

[carnation]

Suiciding--a good topic to discuss in the couple of months before rush!! Should you or shouldn't you? Did you or didn't you?

[hannahgirl]

When I came through in the Fall of 99....we were given the decision to suicide or not. We were never told not to, but we were all aware of what would happen if we suicided and did not get extended a bid to that chapter. I think that I spent a good 15 minutes trying to decide what to do. I had went to pref at DG and ADPi that day. So it was really between them. I knew from the moment I began rush that I wanted to be a DG but I kept running it through my head. However, I decided that I would suicide DG because I knew that was where I wanted to be. Of course now....I am a DG and I love every minute of it and wouldn't have changed my choice at all back then.
My advice to PNMs would be to do what they want....I did. Whether it is suicide the chapter they really want to be in or be happy with a chapter that they put down as second choice. It is their decision and theirs only.

BTW.....I'm sure everyone knows this but just a reminder that the name PX is not to be used anymore. It is to be Recruitment Counselor or something else. We have changed it to Rho Gamma at Akron. Has anyone else changed theirs??

[xok85xo]

I suicided chi-o, by the time it got to pref night i knew it was chi-o or nothing, i didn't want to take the chance of putting down chi omega and another house and getting the other house when i really wanted to be a chi omega...i HAD to be a chi omega..there would be no other way, i figured it would be all or nothing, i wasn't going to settle. So i took the risk, and luckily..it worked out :)

Just a sidenote- I knew almost nothing about the rush process when i went through, i didn't know that if you didn't get a bid they would call you so needless to say i was still a complete wreck of 'did i or didn't i' right before they took me into the room to give me my bid

[SATX*APhi]

I went through informal recruitment, so this was not an option for me. At my school, though, the Rho Chi's discourage suicide bidding. The Rho Chi's do not even discuss this option unless a PNM brings it up. At my campus, the main focus is to recruit a girl to go Greek, not to recruit girls for a particular sorority.


I do know of three girls who went through formal recruitment (who did not know each other at the time) and wanted to join Alpha Phi. We were their first choice and they put another sorority as their second choice (which was the same sorority). I do not know what happened, but we ended up not giving these two awesome girls a bid and they bid matched with their second choice.

These girls became really close after joining the other sorority. One of my sisters used to room with one of the girls and in several of their late night discussions, the other girl would tell my sister that she wished she would have suicided and tried to join A-Phi during informal recruitment. She also told my sister that the other girls wished they had waited also. Although we missed out on three great girls, there was no changing the decision that we made or that they made. Ironically, two of these girls have been president of their sorority. They have embraced what they joined. Although they may have regrets, they do love their sorority.

[carnation]

Valdosta State will have Gamma Chis this year instead of Rho Chis.

Many years ago, the rush counselors said nothing about suiciding--if you did, it was fine with Panhellenic, I suppose. We weren't required to attend a certain number of parties, either. If you wanted to go with one sorority out of 14 from day one--fine. Auburn being what it is, I'm sure that some did exactly that.

Actually, I did a form of that from about the middle of rush. I took stock of the groups I had left and then cut everybody except Pi Phi and Kappa. Years later, I realized that I probably would've been happy in about 4 of the groups I cut but thank God that rush ended happily for me.

PNMs, please don't do that! Nobody is saying that you have to pledge a group you don't like, but please give each group every chance you can! And I hope to heaven that my PNM daughters don't read this thread and try to copy the dumb thing I did.

[AGDLynn]

GC's at Valdosta? Coincidence?? lol

Carnation, out of all the PNMs, your 2 I would definitely bet money that they don't sucide!;) :D

[AlphaGam1019]

Originally posted by AGDLynn
GC's at Valdosta? Coincidence?? lol


yeah, I had to snicker at that one. ;)

[AOX81]

I went to a school with a fairly small Greek system (less than 1%) so most of the girls ended up where they wanted to be. We have had a few occasions where girls got "screwed" during bid matching and then view the Greek system negatively.

We strongly encourage the girls to ONLY put down the sororities that they can see themselves with. We only have 3 sororities on our campus so quota is usually under 10.

I always use our sorority as an example to the rushees and tell them if you can't see yourself with AOX don't put us on your bid card. You have to go with your gut feeling. We want the girls to join the right sorority...even if it isn't ours.

[FuzzieAlum]

Rush counselors pretty much have to say "don't suicide - here are the dangers of it" - because that's Panhellenic's official stand, and they are representing Panhellenic.

Was my school unique in using young alums as Rho Chis instead of undergrads?

And to the guys who are confused and don't like our system - yes, it is confusing, but most of us like it better than your system. With formal rush at least every girl gets to explore all the choices the campus has to offer her. She knows what she is choosing. With the fraternities, most guys go to only a few houses (we had 17 total) - how are they sure they are in the right place for them? It's different strokes for different folks, I guess, and we like our system well enough for now.

[RedHotChiO]

I have a question that I would like to pose. How do y'all feel about chapters that give bids to girls that have suicided? I mean, if the girl has suicided and has been rejected, doesn't that put her in a really vulnerable position? It happens a lot on my campus with the other sorority. Does your school have rules against this?

[33girl]

Originally posted by RedHotChiO
I have a question that I would like to pose. How do y'all feel about chapters that give bids to girls that have suicided? I mean, if the girl has suicided and has been rejected, doesn't that put her in a really vulnerable position? It happens a lot on my campus with the other sorority. Does your school have rules against this?

Do you mean, if she suicides ABC and XYZ gives her a snap bid?

It's one thing if the girl is someone XYZ really liked and for some reason they didn't end up at the top of each others' lists. It's another thing if XYZ is just trying to get their numbers up and goes around to all the girls who didn't get bids "preying" on them. If the latter happens, I would wager they'll have a very high pledge dropout rate if the girls just joined in the heat of the moment.

[FuzzieAlum]

The chapters don't know who has suicided, unless someone tells them they did. Bidmatching is supposed to be a pretty secret process - it's not anyone's business who I put down on my card, which choice I got, or who the sororities wanted most.

[ilovemyglo]

At my school suiciding is actually normal. We always get 2-3 suicides for each house. The rho chis discourage it, dont get me wrong.. but some of those women are wonderful sisters.
We have had sisters that suicided other sororities join us through COB and they have never regretted it!
I personally suicided my prefs. I know I could remove names of sororities from those inviting me, but I also knew I didnt want to be anything but an Alpha Gam. So at the other parties I politely told the women that I thought I had found my home and I didn't think it was with their sisters. None of them were sad for me or mad or upset, they were all genuinely happy that I thought so much of that one chapter. So the next day the only house that invited me back was AGD. I didn't want to spend time at another party and take up space where someone else that WANTED to be there could have been! So, I ended up suiciding my bid card too. The next day it was AGD.
We had a girl join this year that wanted to suicide us but her rho chi was from our BIGGEST rival and told her she had to put down her other pref parties somewhere. When her rho chi showed up the next day the girl told her that if she didn't have a bid for Alpha Gam then to go away (of course she did!!!) but then went on to tell her if she had a bid from XYZ (which was the rho chi's sorority) she would rather her burn it. SO the rho chi threw it on the ground and stamped on it as she walked away. That made for an interesting topic!!!
I don't think that suiciding is for everyone, though!
I was a sophomore when I went through rush, and I pretty much had it narrowed down to two houses when I signed up. One was the popular pretty girl house (in the view of non greeks) and the other was the largest chapter on campus. I ended up not wanting to be a part of them and found my home in AGD only AFTER i visited them. I didn't really know alot about them when I joined.
So in the end I think it works out for everyone except for those rushees who get cross cut. I hope they find homes too!

Oh and 33girl, my house snap bids anyone that we have found to be a suitable sister, including women that suicided other houses and we have a 99% Initiation rate for the past 4 years. Some girls are, (for lack of a better word) really DUMB about sororities until they see them outside of rush!

[xok85xo]

how can you snap bid a PNM who suicides? From my understanding from the bidmatching workshop i had to attend as a member of the recruitment team, that you can only snap bid after the PNM does not match with a house, she is not on your chapter's bid list, but she puts your org down on her pref card and you have not made quota yet?

[RedHotChiO]

I'm not sure what you are asking xok85xo. What 33girl described is usually what happens at our school. The greek system at our school is relatively small. We only have three sororities. For some reason, most of the rushees are pretty vocal when they are suiciding...so we know. So we also know when the other sorority picks them up after they wanted to join another sorority.

[AOX81]

Originally posted by ilovemyglo
At my school suiciding is actually normal.

It's quite normal at mine too. I remember in the Fall of 1998 quota was 8 and 7 of the 8 girls on our "A" list suicided us. We only found this out because one of the Rho Chi's from another sorority made a big deal out of it. She was telling everyone that we told the girls to do this which is entirely not true.

[FuzzieAlum]

Hm, most of the snap bids I knew about went to girls who dropped out of formal rush or didn't fill out a pref card.

[33girl]

Originally posted by ilovemyglo
Oh and 33girl, my house snap bids anyone that we have found to be a suitable sister, including women that suicided other houses and we have a 99% Initiation rate for the past 4 years. Some girls are, (for lack of a better word) really DUMB about sororities until they see them outside of rush!

Please don't take what I said the wrong way - I'm talking sororities giving snap bids to women that they don't have a CLUE who they even are, just to get numbers up. If you've met them in rush and remember them and think they're cool, that's all good. :)

[Aphigal]

Originally posted by xok85xo
how can you snap bid a PNM who suicides?...you can only snap bid after the PNM does not match with a house, she is not on your chapter's bid list, but she puts your org down on her pref card and you have not made quota yet?

Actually that is not correct according to the Greenbook. It used to be that if a women SIP (single intentional prefereced aka "suicides") a house she was ineligible for Snap Biding an only eligible for COB. But NPC changed that a ew years ago.

As far as the pnm needing to write you down on her pref card or the pnm needing to be on your bid list it is simply not correct. Try working with you Greek Advisor or NPC Area Delegate to get the workings on your campus corrected.

I hope that helps to clear things up! :)

[ilovemyglo]

I wasn't trying to sound harsh, 33girl but some people think because we have bid girls that we only met the first night that we are desperate for numbers.
You also have to keep some things in mind:
like EVERY chapter, no matter how low in numbers, will not bid women that they don't want to. Yes some chapters with lower numbers do not bid the highest quality sisters, but who is to say when I joined, or you joined, or anyone else, they did not think we were lower quality sisters? Each of us has to prove it to the chapters after rush, just as much as during. Pledgeship isn't quick because of that.
I am not jumping on you, I hope it doesn't sound like it anyway. I just don't want girls to think if they get a snap bid it is because the houses are desperate. I also hate how some members of IHQs (multiple sororities that I know of) tell girls to snap bid girls that they have met, so long as they had the MINIMUM requirements, in order to make quota. I hate that. Not every girl clicks right away. Although there are those rare diamonds in the rough!

[33girl]

Originally posted by ilovemyglo
I also hate how some members of IHQs (multiple sororities that I know of) tell girls to snap bid girls that they have met, so long as they had the MINIMUM requirements, in order to make quota. I hate that.

OK, we are SOOOO on the same page with that one...;)

RedHotChiO sounded somewhat unhappy at the sorority that was doing this, that's why I thought it might be a situation of the other group saying "Does she have a body temperature? Does she have female organs? Cool, let's give her a bid." We too had women that the first night we met them - couldn't wait to bid them, and did! Sometimes, you just know. What I am against is chapters bidding girls that they don't like, or know, or don't care if they get to know, just for the sake of numbers. That is not what sisterhood is about.

[RedHotChiO]

What I was really trying to bring light to is why a sorority would bid a girl that has already decided that only one sorority is right for her? She has obviously considered her options and decided that she only likes one. When another sorority decides to give her a snap bid or a COB, they may like her, but she may not necessarily like them. So if this girl gets rejected from the only sorority she wants to be in, and the other sorority gives her a bid she is put in a very vulnerable position. My chapter prides itself on the fact that every girl in our chapter put Chi Omega down first. I'm just not sure I understand how a sorority would want to bid a girl who doesn't have her heart into it.

[FuzzieAlum]

Well, I think there's a long distance between them wanting your chapter first and dropping your chapter first chance they get. I know that I for one would have been perfectly contented in my second-choice sorority. (But then again, that's why I didn't suicide!)

If they dropped you right away, though, they probably really don't want you. It is possible that they will see over time that Chapter "One" won't give them the bid of their dreams, and they will find out they really fit in somewhere else - maybe your house - but at snap bid time they are still pining for that one house.

The way I look at it, any girl who ends up in Alpha Xi Delta has been granted a terrific gift. They may have dropped us because they used poor judgment, but anyone truly worthy of our sisterhood will soon realize that they're better off in AXD than anywhere else!

Not every house has the luxury of having every member desiring them first and foremost. If your chapter has that luxury, great, but lots of other chapters have to work harder to get rushees to look beyond their less-glamorous house, their smaller numbers, their willingness to accept not-gorgeous girls, their status as a local, etc., things that don't in any way make them a truly worse sisterhood.

[33girl]

Originally posted by RedHotChiO
What I was really trying to bring light to is why a sorority would bid a girl that has already decided that only one sorority is right for her?

Well of course, there are as many different answers to this as there are girls.

Two of our sisters were roomies and went through rush together. One was a legacy (thru mom) to XYZ. She suicided them and they didn't give her a bid. The other put us down first. We gave sister #1 a bid just because it was evident that she liked us and had fun with us - I think she just felt pressure from inside herself, because of her mom, to suicide XYZ. But she was more than happy with the way things turned out, and her mom was too.

[DWAlphaGam]

*bump*

Interesting read for the pnm's (and for members, as well).

[trisigmaAtl]

This is kind of weird, but i just figured out that the "other chapter"
RedHotChiO is talking about is MY chapter. I'm not offended, especially since this conversation is old and the poster is an alum, but I would like to explain the mentality of our chapter (at least from my personal point of view). Chi Omega is a great chapter on my campus, I mean GREAT. They have quality girls, they are VERY involved on campus, and they have a very desirable image nationally, (plus they always put on a killer rush). So it is inevitable that alot of girls are going to like them (as well they should), and choose to be a part of their sisterhood. they are the only chapter on campus who never has to have COB and rarely snap bids. Our sisterhood is also AWESOME (I put Sigma down first and actually quit rush the first time when they cut me), we have the highest panhellenic GPA and a very diverse membership. We are just different. We are the only Sigma chapter in GA and sometimes we do have to snap bid and COB (it's not even an issue of HAVE, it's that we want to, who doesn't want a great girl to join your group?). I can honestly say that we don't have trouble with numbers and that we do get a healthy pledge class from formal recruitment. We have and probably will again snap bid or COB a girl who has suicided another chapter if we know that she is a great girl and has something to contribute to our chapter. Even if a pnm has decided that she doesn't want us, that doesn't mean we don't want her to know that we think she's great. It's not an issue of pressuring or desperatly struggling for numbers. It's not begging for scraps (not that it was implied), if we meet a girl whom we all love, we will bid her. there are girls who suicide other chapters that we do not bid as well. it may seem that many suicides recieve snap bids from us, but that is because we are dealing with a rush pool of 30 or so and many girls who make it through the week choose to suicide. therefore, most of the girls who are eligible to even recieve a snap bid are unbidded suicides. So, it's not like we're trying to be sneaky, we're just doing what the ol' green book allows us to do to aquire new members. Again, this isn't meant to be aggressive and I have soooo much respect for the women of Chi Omega on my campus, they are my friends and deserving of praise (I promise, if I didn't like them, I would tell you). i just wanted to explain the situation from another perspective.
p.s. i also want to add a note to the pnms: just because a chapter COBs or snap bids doesn't mean it it a weak chapter, every chapter on my campus could choose to COB if it wanted (to gain at least a few members) They just choose not to. COB is a great opportunity for women who miss out on formal recruitment to become greek
;) I know, cuz I COBed!!!!!

[DWAlphaGam]

Great post, trisigmaAtl! I agree, I don't think that chapters should feel embarassed to snap bid or COB women that they truly want as part of their chapter. You wouldn't offer a bid to a woman you didn't want, and I think snap bidded women who suicided another house should think about the fact that this chapter can overlook their initial decision and give them a second chance at sisterhood. (BTW, I was COB'd, too! :))