Injustice to the Bruhs at Southern U.?

[DoggyStyle82]

I have read many different versions and opinions as to who was in the wrong. You be the judge.



Omega's Suspended

by Gary Holloway
April 19, 2002


Southern University has placed the Beta Sigma Chapter of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Incorporated, on suspension.

The fraternity was suspended stemming from two separate incidents that occurred this past weekend.

According to Joseph K. Byrd, Vice President of Student Services at Xavier University, the Beta Sigma Chapter of the fraternity won second place ( and a$750.00 check) in a step show at Xavier University.

In a statement released to Robert Bennett, director of student life, Byrd claims that as they were exiting the gymnasium one member stated "we followed your rules and did a clean show and you still f*#ked over us! F*%k it and f#@k you!"

The next night on April 13 Louisiana State University sponsored a Springfest Greek Step Show at the Pete Maravich Assembly Center. A police report released by Lieutenant Robert Jones of LSUPD states that the Omegas received second place in the contest, which the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity from LSU won the first place prize. As the first place check, worth $3000, was being awarded to Alpha Phi Alpha one member of Omega Psi Phi jumped up and grabbed the check tearing it.

The check was then grabbed back by members of Alpha Phi Alpha, when members of Omega Psi Phi began jumping on stage and fighting with members of Alpha Phi Alpha. An estimated 30 people took part in the brawl and approximately eight officers arrived on the scene to disperse the crowd. With help from other fraternity members the fight was broken up in about four minutes. Officers were able to prevent a second effort by both fraternities to continue fighting.

Also included in the statement by Jones is that he spoke with several witnesses and some said that it was Southern Universities’ Omegas combined with Omegas from LSU who instigated the situation.

In a letter sent to Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Inc., by Bennett he informed the fraternity that after a thorough investigation of the altercation the Omegas were found guilty of fighting. The investigation consisted of series of interviews and a conference with the Dean of Students at LSU.

"This incident is totally embarrassing to Southern University, the fraternity and the entire community of Baton Rouge," said Bennett.

He informed the fraternity that was placing the members of the Beta Sigma Chapter of Omega Psi Phi on suspension until the Spring of 2003; the suspension was to start upon immediate receipt of the notice, which was handed out on Tuesday April 16.

Due to the suspension members of Omega Psi Phi can not wear their letters, have programs, or participate in any campus activities. They must also complete 100 hours of campus service with Eli Guillory at the Physical Plant before next spring. Any further violations of the rules may result in expulsion of the fraternity.

Darian Howard, President of the Beta Sigma Chapter of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Inc., sent a written letter to the Digest, which stated:

The Beta Sigma Chapter of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity at Southern University fully intends to appeal the decision to suspend the organization until Spring 2003. In accordance with the Code of Student Conduct, Student Organizations are subject to the same provisions as that of any individual student, which warrant due process. Beta Sigma has been accused of collectively engaging in an altercation with the Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity at Louisiana State University on April 13, 2002.

No interviews were conducted with the members of the Beta Sigma Chapter, or any other Greek organization, which were present at the event.

A statement was released to the DIGEST from the Beta Sigma Chapter that read:

"We, (the Beta Sigma Chapter of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity, Inc.), agree that the incident was embarrassing to the Pan-Hellenic Counsel and to all Universities and Colleges represented. The Beta Sigma Chapter acknowledges their presence and participation in the Greek Show and our dissatisfaction with the matter in which the Greek Show was managed. However, the Beta Sigma Chapter denies our involvement in the fight that took place between the three to five individuals lasting less than four minutes. The Beta Sigma Chapter did actively participate in separating members of both organizations representing numerous chapters from several colleges and universities within the region, including the Beta Sigma Chapter of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc., of Southern University. It is estimated that some one hundred Alphas and Omegas at both the undergraduate and graduate level were in attendance (Dillard, Xavier, LSU, Southern, Lafayette, Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas, etc.) The members of Beta Sigma are requesting a Pan-Hellenic Judiciary Hearing."

The Beta Sigma Chapter has the right to appeal the decision if new evidence is found.

[the411]

I spent like 30 minutes typing a detailed, heartfelt response on this topic, but I lost my connection when I hit the "Submit Reply" button.

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Needless, to say, I'm gon' have to get back to y'all on this one!
:mad:

[the411]

Okay. I hope this makes it this time…

To summarize my opinion on this particular incident, I have to say that, while I understand the Bruhs’ frustrations, I think it was wrong of them to release their rage in the matter they chose. However, seeing as though the initial act (tearing up the check) was not an attack to/on the Alphas, I disagree that the Bruhs should be held solely accountable for the altercation that followed. I could agree that both frats should take the blame, but I honestly think that the actual FIGHT was instigated by the Alphas who opted to be reactive rather than proactive. Once the check was seized and torn, the onus fell upon the step show committee to see to it that the Alphas were compensated. But, of course, they (the Alphas) reacted as they did in an effort to not be “punked” by the Bruhs. That being said, to punish one frat and not the other—I think—is very unfair. I also find the consequences to be extremely, ridiculously, and unnecessarily severe—even more so because the Alphas didn’t get as little as a slap on the hand!

Now, as I stated earlier—I totally understand the Bruhs’ frustrations. While I wish more maturity and respect for WY F’s honor and reputation had been exemplified, I do not blame the Bruh’s for being fed up with the commercialism of stepping. There is a very Que-nique stepping-style characteristic of and mastered by ONLY the Bruhs’—ALL tradition-oriented members of the black greek family should know this. Sadly, however, the Bruhs represent the only BGLO that completely maintains a stepping legacy/tradition. All others prefer to give the crowd what they want by implementing the latest tunes, theatrics, props, and multimedia possible to arouse the applauds. And, the intensity of the applauds is usually what sways the judges (whom I’ll attack in a second) to give the scores they do. Unfortunately, stepshow audiences are packed with GDIs and new skool greeks who don’t know/appreciate the tradition of the African Boot Dance (tweaked and named “stepping”). So, the Bruhs’ tight precision, military-style steps/hops aren’t valued nearly as much as (for example) the redundant, masturbatory cane-movements the Kappas might do to “Feelin’ on Yo’ Booty.” Why? Because the silly little girls in the audience are more (for whatever reason) intrigued by that kind of stuff and they scream and clap louder for that than they do for the real stepping done by my Brilliant Bruhs.

And, what about those Nasty Shows the Bruhs are notorious for? Well—they’ve been banned for years! Any Dawg Team that comes on stage with that in mind can expect immediate disqualification. So, in my opinion, the Bruh who was quoted as saying we followed your rules and did a clean show and you still f*#ked over us! F*%k it and f#@k you! had every right to be pissed. It’s the Damned-if-I-do/Damned-if-I-don’t Syndrome :rolleyes: that is bound to incite anger in anyone.

Nowadays, the judges are NOT qualified to judge stepshows. Folks are trying to get away from having an NPHC panel of judges because they think it’s fairer to the step teams that the judges are not greek. So, you’ve got people judging this stuff who don’t have a CLUE what it’s all about. Like the crowd, they're more fascinated by an org’s use of music, theatrics, props, and multimedia than they are with precision stepping, because they don’t understand stepping at all. And, to make matters worse, lots of shows now have white faculty/staff judges who are usually the least knowledgeable about and understanding of stepping! :confused:

Basically, step shows are DEcreasing in quality while INcreasing in admission fees! In most cases, the Bruhs are doomed from jump, even when they do damned good, rules-following shows. I feel badly for the BS Bruhs and I hope they appeal the sanction.

So, Bruh’s, even when y’all mess up, you can count on me to always have nuttin’ but COLEMAN LOVE for all of ya!

[DoggyStyle82]

I'm sure that the Bruhs are comforted by that support. You bring up some excellent points and if I can just revisit them:

First and foremost, the Bruh who snatched the check and tore it up was wrong. There would have been no fight nor a subsequent suspension if he had acted in a mature fashion. I feel his frustration though. They had been jerked the day before in another show.

I could go on for hours about the current state of stepping but 411 said enuff.

[Swamp Thang]

Let me say this... To the Bruhs have been saying for years that they can't get a fair shake when in a show with 'dancing machine' frats... tHat's not true.

I've been stepshow co-ordinator for the Kappa Delta Chapter of Omega Psi Phi since 1995. At that time, my own prophytes (who finished 3rd in our National Conclave Show in Atlanta in '92), felt that they couldn't compete against the Solid Gold Dancer Frats. What I found out, is that, in shows with the whipped creme Frats, We as QUES have to get that "Ooh Ahhhh" from the crowd without selling our marching soul. So, you pimp any skills the Bruhs on the hop team have... If you have a Bruh(s) that can 'backflip', use um in the show. Don't do more than ONE slow tempo march during the show (slow marches lose the crowds attention). And finish with a BANG...

Use you ingenuity Bruhs.. and stop just saying that we're gonna lose because we don't come out party hopping to "Still Fly".

I know...

[stomparama]

Looking for Omega's to step in the Greeknic.com stepshow in Augusta, GA
:) :)

[Blackwatch]

I think that swamp thang's advice is well stated. You must understand that increasingly, stepshows are being promoted by people who are not in the NPHC and basically see them as ways to make money with no respect to tradition, heritage, and culture. With that being said, know the parameters of the show going in. The 411 said it best when she stated that we have a new generation of "greeks" that have no clue on tradition. They would rather see "chip-n-dales " rather than true, all out, "just put on the letters and step" shows with no music, just boots, chants, and sweat.:D Know this going into the show, and do not be surprised with the outcome of the show. With that being said....

I have to defend the my brothers of Alpha Phi Alpha who were acosted by the act of protest by the members of Omega Psi Phi. Men of Omega, understand this, your gripes, while valid, should have been handled with the organizers of the step show, not by trying to publically display your protest at the expense of the brothers of Alpha Phi Alpha. Let's keep in mind that we should in all things respect our repsective legacies and carry ourselves and treat each other with respect at all times. You may also have a valid way of appealing by wanting an NPHC hearing. I think that this is a great idea. I think what we are seeing here is a bastardization of the image of all NPHC oranizations, with the appropriation of our image by people who are not aware of our heritage. We have to protect against this, whether it be by copyrighting certain symbols and paraphernalia, on down to only participating in NPHC sponsored step shows where vulgarity (masked as crowd response) will not be valued as a criterion in the judging. We have to reclaim our image, our heritage, and our culture as NPHC members and not take our frustrations out on each other.
Respectfully,
Blackwatch!!!!
P.S.
By the411... I honestly think that the actual FIGHT was instigated by the Alphas who opted to be reactive rather than proactive. Once the check was seized and torn, the onus fell upon the step show committee to see to it that the Alphas were compensated. But, of course, they (the Alphas) reacted as they did in an effort to not be “punked” by the Bruhs.

This was obviously logic inspired (or blinded) by Coleman Love:D
How would you expect any man to respond to this? While you admit that the tearing of the check was wrong, you actually believe the Alphas instigated the fight? Let's be reasonable now.

I think Doggystyle82 said it best...First and foremost, the Bruh who snatched the check and tore it up was wrong. There would have been no fight nor a subsequent suspension if he had acted in a mature fashion.

[the411]

Originally posted by Blackwatch
By the411...

This was obviously logic inspired (or blinded) by Coleman Love:D
How would you expect any man to respond to this? While you admit that the tearing of the check was wrong, you actually believe the Alphas instigated the fight? Let's be reasonable now.



Point well taken. As per the 1st sentence of my post, I do acknowledge and admit that the Bruhs were wrong. BUT-- not even you can deny that, once the check was snatched and torn, there was obviously nothing the Alphas could do with with--so why feel the need to snatch it back in that same aggressive fashion?
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I'm ain't eeeven gon' lie to ya--I'd have probably done the same thing the Alphas did, but my actions still wouldn't be correct, even if they were understandable. Fact is, most fights become fights because someone chooses not to turn the other cheek.
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It's kinda like in basketball, when one player jabs another player--the instigator gets hit with a technical, UNLESS the other player retaliates, in which case there's a double technical. I am not faulting the Alphas alone--my argument is that, since the groups were fighting each other, they should both face some sanctions, even if those given to the Alphas are less severe than those given to my Bruhs.

And, as for me being blinded by Coleman Love--Guilty as charged! :D
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[Blackwatch]

I understand the turn the other cheek logic, and I will admit that the brothers of Alpha could possibly have been better served by doing so, but I do not think 99 out of 100 men of Omega would have turned the other cheek if the tables were turned. So are you, the 411, trying to say that you hold Alpha Phi Alpha to a higher standard than the men of Omega? I do not think that you would, but the logic of the original post and the defense that you later posted seems as though you want Alpha to be punished for not allowing Omega to throw a temper tandrum at the expense of Alpha, PLEASE!!! Maybe its foolish pride or masculinity speaking in me, but even when Jesus talks about turning the other cheek and Dr. King as well, it was for a greater purpose in delivering humaninty to a higher state of unity with one another. In the instance of a step show tantrum, turning the other cheek probably would have done nothing more than to get the other one slappd as well!!!
Cute basketball analogy, but ask any basketball player if they would get slapped in the face by another player and just walk away, give me the tech, but you cannot take away my pride in myself or my team, therefore I must defend myself. No lesson will be learned from the other players if he just walks away. This is a competition, not a spiritual/political struggle, the context is different, and in this case, so are the rules. For Alpha just to walk away from this would invite further intimidation later on from Omega, and even Dr. King advocated not living in fear of anything, as well as theologian Howard Thurman. I do not advocate violence, but at the same time I recognize some things are just out of my control, as long as it is in self defense and I do not institigate it, violence is a very last resort.
Blackwatch!!!!

[Greeknic.com]

I am a promoter of stepshows called Stomp A' Rama and Greeknic.com in the Southeast and Augusta, Georgia for eleven years.

Yes, I am Greek - Alpha Phi Alpha, '88. Yes, I am financial - Alpha Chi Lambda Graduate Chapter of Augusta, GA. My wife is a lady of Delta Sigma Theta. My sons are called "19" "06", twins.

I understand the frustration that the Omega's are going through with stepshows. There are a lot of dancing instead of stepping in these shows along with the ones I sponsor. Omega's continue to step like you step, but look deep within your organization. I saw an Omega stepteam open with music and close with music. But, they stepped their ass off in the middle. This was one of the best Omega shows that I had experience.

At the Augusta Greek Picnic Foundation, we are going to establish national rules and regulations on stepshow. Promoters and schools/universities will be asked to put these rules into action at their shows. Stepshows that are accredited will be listed on all the National Stepshows websites. If you do not find a stepshow on this website, I would caution you about stepping. Members on the committee will be selected from across the United States. There are too many other groups stepping for the NPHC to oversee this. Rules - A promoter must be a Greek before their show will receive the approval of the committee. This will help Greeks determine if they want to step in certain shows.

As a Greek, I, along with Christian of Greekfest.com, are trying to change the stepshow problem. Therefore, I have started something called the Augusta Greek Picnic Foundation a non-profit organization with a 501(c)(3) status. We have joined forces with the National Legacy Foundation. This is the first organization established for stepping. Profits from the Greeknic.com will be used for scholarships for Greeks, non-Greeks and school age children.

Yes, there are people putting on shows that are not Greek, and Greeks continue to step in these shows. These people could care less about "our legacy". Greekfest.com, Greekfeakinc.com, Philly Picnic, Delta-Ice Breaker of Savannah, Greeknic.com, Stomp A' Ramas and any homecoming stepshow are stepshows.

Brothers/Sisters of Greekdom, stepping is our legacy. There are several Greeks that are taking our steps and using them aganist us. Hell, they are sometimes better than our "9" organizations. We better wake-up before it is too late. The time is coming when you will step aganist other organizations. They are good!!

Stepping started with either the Omega's or Sigma's. We as BGLO need to embrace our legacy.

As for the problem at hand... Omega's -- find that brother and turn him in to your National Organization. As Greeks, we can't let a few destroy our legacy. Then, appeal the decision of the school. Best of luck. Contact me at 706-303-4563.
:cool: :D

[DoggyStyle82]

Thank you Blackwatch and Greeknic for your well-reasoned responses. I abhor violence between Black men, especially amongst Black Greeks. I feel the Bruhs at SUs frustration. I do not feel that they should have been suspended, especially over off-campus events. This is where I feel that they have an argument.

Greeknic: I also applaud you for trying to return Greek Shows from "freakshows" and back to stepping.

[the411]

Originally posted by Blackwatch
So are you, the 411, trying to say that you hold Alpha Phi Alpha to a higher standard than the men of Omega? I do not think that you would, but the logic of the original post and the defense that you later posted seems as though you want Alpha to be punished for not allowing Omega to throw a temper tandrum at the expense of Alpha, PLEASE!!!

Perhaps we should revisit my previous posts so that you may better understand my rebuttal:

1. In both posts, I resolved that the Bruhs were WRONG.

2. Through my basketball analogy, I was simply making the argument that, regardless of who initiated the altercation, both were active participants, and should therefore receive some sanction as a result.

3. In my 1st post I said: "But, of course, they (the Alphas) reacted as they did in an effort to not be “punked” by the Bruhs." And, in my latter post I said: "I ain't eeeven gon' lie to ya--I'd have probably done the same thing the Alphas did..." Both statements were made in efforts to demonstrate that I fully understand why the Alphas reacted as they did.

4. My last post also includes my assertion that "I am not faulting the Alphas alone--my argument is that, since the groups were fighting each other, they should both face some sanctions, even if those given to the Alphas are less severe than those given to my Bruhs."

With those contentions re-stated, I am unable to ascertain how/why you've deduced that my platform is for the Alphas to take the blame for the entire incident. YES-- the behavior of the Bruhs was indeed the catalyst to the brawl that ensued. But, the brawl wouldn't have become a brawl without the participation of your frat--whether justified or unjustified. Thus, I am merely saying that they should get a tiny smack on the hand, rather than nothing at all.

As for my b-ball analogy--which wasn't "cute" but rather, clever ;)--I used it to focus on RULES.
http://web.ecomplanet.com/FOFL3340/servercontent/mycustomimages/FOFL3340CustomImage0217629.jpg
Personally, if someone hits... let's say... Kevin Garnett (my favorite), in honor of his manhood, I would deem it remiss of him to not lay one back on the antagonist--HOWEVER, recognizing his important leadership role on the team, and understanding that a technical foul could possibly jeopardize his PT, I'd keep my fingers crossed that his teammates would grab him, pull him away, and calm him down. If that does not happen and KG does get 1 or 2 reciprocal punches in, then I can't blame the ref for hitting him with a tech, even though I'd be pissed if he did. Truth be told, I'd be proud that my boo didn't go out like a sucka; but, rules are rules, so I can't get my panties in a bunch because he got the tech for fighting back.

Now, to best support my argument that the Alphas aren't completely faultless, we must look at this from a different angle. Let's say KG throws the first punch. The game is tense and for whatever reason, he's frustrated. Contact is made that he considers flagrant, although no call is made by the ref. So, he retaliates by sockin' it to the player who made the contact. As coaches, teammates, and fans, we all know KG was wrong and will get a T. But, if that player starts jabbing him back and they go at it, I expect him to also get a T, even though I fully understand his response. Again, rules are rules.

In summary, I don't expect you to see/agree with my POV, particularly because your frat responded to the actions of the antagonist. Let me assure you, yet again, that I fully understand why the Alphas defended themselves. But the fact that they did makes them partially responsible in my eyes. And, while I am a loyal lover of Omega Psi Phi, my argument is primarily a derivative of objectivity and justice as I see them. Do you fully understand me now, or do you think I'm a Que-groupie who's just on their side for Pearl Points? I hope not, as there is so much more to me than meets the eye...

Merci beaucoup!

the411

PS: Love your sig. Verse 37 is one of my favorites.


And I'm Out!!! :D

[ladyjag99]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
I feel the Bruhs at SUs frustration. I do not feel that they should have been suspended, especially over off-campus events. This is where I feel that they have an argument.





Doggy, I respectfully disagree with that statement. It is a long-standing rule among many school districts and colleges in the United States that students representing the school even off-campus are still bound by the school's rules.

It's one thing if the Ques were involved in an altercation on their own time. It's another thing if they were representing Southern University at the time (which they were). Their actions embarassed Southern University, its students, faculty, staff, and alumni and their own fraternity. There was no reason for that. Personally, I think that they got off really lightly. The folks at LSU had every right to ask the police to arrest them and press charges against them and they would be justified in doing so. Things could have been MUCH, MUCH worse for them. Hopefully, they'll learn their lesson.

[Greeknic.com]

I agree with you. But, the Omega's or Alpha's need to make an example out of any Greek that embarrass the Faternity/Sorority or College/University.

[the411]

Originally posted by Greeknic.com
I agree with you. But, the Omega's or Alpha's need to make an example out of any Greek that embarrass the Faternity/Sorority or College/University.

...which is exactly why I think it's unfair that the Alphas got nothing. Once the Bruh snatched and tore the check, that Alpha should have thought: "This dude is crazy, so let me chill before something pops off." But, instead, he snatched it back. And for what? He couldn't do s#@t with a torn check! By further upsetting an already irate person, one stands the risk of starting an altercation. That is a consequence you pay for tossing gas into a fire. This is what I mean by turning the other cheek! Had the Alpha not perpetuated the Bruhs' anger by snatching the check back, the fight wouldn't have started. I could see it if the Bruhs just bum-rushed the stage attacking the Alphas when their name was called as the winner; then the Alpha's participation would have been in self-defense. But that wasn't what happened at all and there was a room full of witnesses to prove that! The fight started when the Alpha childishly reacted to an already anger-driven act (snatching and tearing up the check) by the Bruhs.


Again, I say: The Ques were wrong and should try to tolerate the repercussions of their actions. BUT--the Alphas should at least get a smack on the hand for their role in creating the conflict. That's MY opinion.

And I'm Out! :D

[Curious1]

I write for the Southern Digest. And "WE" have a lot of flack about what we have no control over. We print the news as we receive. Everyone talking about how the Alphas should be handled. remember the Alpha chapter fighting was not BETA SIGMA, it was Nu Psi from LSU. No one at Southern has any idea how they are being handled. And no one seems to care, all anyone can say is that Beta Sigma from SU shouldn't be and they aren't. Do we know that they aren't? LSU is not as open with their students regarding things like this as SU is.

[ladyjag99]

Originally posted by Curious1
I write for the Southern Digest. And "WE" have a lot of flack about what we have no control over. We print the news as we receive. Everyone talking about how the Alphas should be handled. remember the Alpha chapter fighting was not BETA SIGMA, it was Nu Psi from LSU. No one at Southern has any idea how they are being handled. And no one seems to care, all anyone can say is that Beta Sigma from SU shouldn't be and they aren't. Do we know that they aren't? LSU is not as open with their students regarding things like this as SU is.

I agree with that. I've been trying to find information on the dispensation of the APhiA chapter at LSU and couldn't find anything. As a matter of fact, they are having a probate show and a barbeque this afternoon, so I guess they aren't in any trouble that we know of. I honestly didn't expect them to be.

Point of clarification: Southern University's APhiA and Omega chapters are BOTH called Beta Sigma. SU's APhiA chapter shouldn't be anywhere near that mess -- they're on probation (lifted from suspension). The fight SU's Ques has was with the Alphas of LSU? Anyone know what's going on with the APhiA chapter at LSU (Nu Psi)? I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is nothing.

[ladyjag99]

Originally posted by the411


BUT--the Alphas should at least get a smack on the hand for their role in creating the conflict. That's MY opinion.




I don't understand that. Why should they be punished? Think of it this way. I'm a single woman living alone. If one night, I'm sleeping in bed and hear a living room window break, I'm going to get out of bed with a baseball bat and clobber whoever I saw in my living room. If the guy gets a concussion, that's his own fault. I had no way of knowing who the intruder in my living room was. I have no idea if the window breaking was intentional or accidental. In short, I don't know if the guy intended to harm me or not and I defended myself accordingly. No jury in the world will convict me for assault--I was just defending myself.

It's the same situation. That Alpha had NO IDEA whether or not the Omega meant to harm him, and he defended himself accordingly. This occured in seconds. Nobody had time to wonder about the other guy's motives or to tell themselves to back off because the other guy might be crazy. They simply defended themselves. The Ques may have a case for their appeal if the action that started the fight was mis-interpreted as being hostile. Grabbing and tearing up a check that another group was receiving on state can't be interpreted as anything but hostile. Shoving, I could excuse, pushing, I can let it slide, being tripped up, could be an accident, but tearing up a check that I'm receiving on stage? I don't think so. I'm not going to stand there and wonder about the other guy's sanity. There simply isn't enough time for me to think about it.

[the411]

Originally posted by ladyjag99
I don't understand that. Why should they be punished? Think of it this way. I'm a single woman living alone. If one night, I'm sleeping in bed and hear a living room window break, I'm going to get out of bed with a baseball bat and clobber whoever I saw in my living room. If the guy gets a concussion, that's his own fault. I had no way of knowing who the intruder in my living room was. I have no idea if the window breaking was intentional or accidental. In short, I don't know if the guy intended to harm me or not and I defended myself accordingly. No jury in the world will convict me for assault--I was just defending myself.

It's the same situation. That Alpha had NO IDEA whether or not the Omega meant to harm him, and he defended himself accordingly. This occured in seconds. Nobody had time to wonder about the other guy's motives or to tell themselves to back off because the other guy might be crazy. They simply defended themselves. The Ques may have a case for their appeal if the action that started the fight was mis-interpreted as being hostile. Grabbing and tearing up a check that another group was receiving on state can't be interpreted as anything but hostile. Shoving, I could excuse, pushing, I can let it slide, being tripped up, could be an accident, but tearing up a check that I'm receiving on stage? I don't think so. I'm not going to stand there and wonder about the other guy's sanity. There simply isn't enough time for me to think about it.

But that's just it-- it was OBVIOUS what the state of mind was of the Bruh who grabbed the check and tore it up--Even Helen Keller could see that! So, all I'm saying is that, if you f#@k with someone who is already PISSED, then you're not gonna get a sweet response from them if you respond to them with aggression! All I wanna know is why did he snatch a torn-up check away from someone who was ALREADY HOT WITH ANGER? Did he expect the Bruh to embrace him with a hug and a teary-eyed apology? When you respond to aggression with aggression, you get nothing more and nothing less than aggression. NO--I am NOT implying that the Alphas asked for it! YES--the Bruhs started it! But, just try to answer this question as honestly and objectively as you can: Do you think the Bruhs would have jumped on the Alphas if, when the check was snatched away and torn, the Alpha had kept his cool (realizing what he was dealing with) and NOT snatched it back? I doubt it!

Your comparison to having someone break into your house is ridiculous logic. First of all, by breaking into your home, the criminal is INTENDING to harm YOU--perhaps not physically, but definitely by taking what belongs to you. Therefore, you are completely justified in defending yourself if necessary. (Me personally, I doubt I'd try to fight off a burglar, so mad props to you for your bravery. ) After all, he's deliberately/intentionally messing with you and yours .

But, if you aggravate a mad person who's anger-motivated actions aren't initially targeted toward you and, as a result, that person lashes out at you, then you're the idiot for not expecting a hostile/negative outcome. How could that Alpha be so naive as to think that further aggravating an already angry person would result in a joyful frolic in the park?!?!?

Everyone's acting like I want to see the Alphas get lynched or something? A public apology for the disruption is enough for me! Regardless of who started it and why--both groups were involved in a public disturbance. No one's saying that the Alphas should receive the SAME sanctions or even harsh sanctions, for that matter. But, to know that an embarrassing brawl of that magnitude would have been avoided if one guy would have stepped back, taken a deep breath, and let the step show committee take care of the check situation, is to accept that the fight was perpetuated at least SLIGHTLY on account of his poorly thought-out reaction. After all--the Bruhs' initial anger was not directed toward the Alphas. But, as I said once before, in my opinion, the fight ensued as a result of both groups' efforts to determine whose penises are larger.

Maybe it's just me who feels that black greeks should set positive examples rather than perpetuate the myth(?) that BGLOs are nothing more than gangs! Fighting is ridiculous and barbaric as it is, but especially when we--the ELITE--are the ones doing it because we're afraid of being punked by another org. I'm sure all ol' boy thought about was "How is it gon' look if this Que takes our check and tears it up, and I don't do anything?" So, he--refusing to look bad or make his frat look back--retaliated (to add an inch to his penis). Already heated, the Bruhs would not be out-done and that's what led to the altercation. Since the required level of maturity was absent on both parts, they're both at fault for the violent disruption that resulted from their childishness.

Again--this is my opinion and I can understand and appreciate any others that contradict it. I'll respect yours if you'll respect mine. ;)

Geez, I haven't argued this much since me and Doggy got into it about interracial dating!

And I'm Out! :D

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by the411



Geez, I haven't argued this much since me and Doggy got into it about interracial dating!

And I'm Out! :D

Yes, I am for interracial dating!!

Dogs and Ducks.

[the411]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
Yes, I am for interracial dating!! Dogs and Ducks.

That would be more like "inter-species" dating, wouldn't it?

[ladyjag99]

Originally posted by the411


Again--this is my opinion and I can understand and appreciate any others that contradict it. I'll respect yours if you'll respect mine. ;)

Geez, I haven't argued this much since me and Doggy got into it about interracial dating!

And I'm Out! :D


On that note, we'll agree to disagree.

Looking forward to the next debate. :)

[Greeknic.com]

Brothers and Sisters of Greekdom, the point is the team that won didn't do anything to that Omega that jumped on the stage. He commited a crime aganist another person. Like the sister said, the Alpha's didn't know what the man was going to do when he tore up a check on stage.

As Greeks, we can't afford to have members do things like that towards another person. :rolleyes:

[the411]

Originally posted by Greeknic.com
the Alpha's didn't know what the man was going to do when he tore up a check on stage.

He may not have known exactly what he was going to do, but he did know that the Bruh was quite angry. :mad: That should have sent up a red flag that the wrong reaction (snatching the check back) may have led to the very thing that happened.

And that's it for me on this one. :p

Please--let's just all PRAY that such ridiculousness never taints our black greek system again, capisce?

And what--?
Yeah you know... I'm Out! :D

[The Original Ape]

I wasn't there at that show, but I know this; ANY body, or org, that would be foolish enough to get on stage and try and snatch a check that ME AND MY BRUHS earned, will take a SERIOUS LOSS! PUT THE SHOE ON THE OTHA FOOT... Had the Ques won and my bruhs snatched the check, would the result be different?

Incidentally; I just checked yall's bruhs out on BET, and yall held it down!!! I think at this point, yall will win it. It was the best show so far in the contest.

[the411]

Original--
I think everyone agrees (including the Bruhs) that the Que was totally out of line. Personally, I don't care who's on what side--the whole incident was a mess!

Glad to see you in the Dawg House!

TGIF!!!

And I'm Out! :D

[1913CrimsonQT]

Hello everyone!

I was at the show. Actually, I was in it (2nd Place – Iota Theta Chapter of Delta Sigma Theta). Actually, I was on stage when the whole ordeal took place. I was right where the action was.

I’ll give you the straight facts and leave my opinions on who should have been punished and yada yada yada out of my post….

From what I saw, and I had a very good position as well as a tape of the event:

When Nu Psi received their first place check, a member of Beta Sigma tore it. Someone threw water on someone...(I'm not sure as to who). BUT, the first 'lick' was thrown by a member of Nu Psi.

While people in both chapters were fighting, the majority of the fighting between the two fraternities were people who were not even enrolled in school. There were some men that looked older than my father going at it.

I can say that some of the members of the Beta Sigma chapter were trying to break up the fight and move females into safety.

I attend LSU, and Nu Psi will not be getting in trouble anytime soon. Greek Affairs never even thought about punishing them.
Also, it didn't help the whole situation that Nu Psi talked major sh*t in front of Omegas before the results were announced.

[the411]

Thanks for the insight, Soror! If what you say is true, I stand even more firmly on my position that the Alphas should take some of the blame.

I think lots of thread-readers are assuming that I'm taking this position because of my unyielding, unwavering COLEMAN LOVE for my Bruhs, but that really isn't it at all! If the Bruhs had won and an Alpha had torn their check, I'd feel the same way. If the Sorors had won and an AKA had torn their check, I'd feel the same way. We are all supposed to be far above and beyond FIGHTING and I just don't buy that self-defense BS! Someone has to be the bigger person at some point.

And I'm O-U-T!!! :D

[1913CrimsonQT]

You're welcome Soror!

My personal opinion is much like yours.

Originally posted by the411
Thanks for the insight, Soror! If what you say is true, I stand even more firmly on my position that the Alphas should take some of the blame.

I think lots of thread-readers are assuming that I'm taking this position because of my unyielding, unwavering COLEMAN LOVE for my Bruhs, but that really isn't it at all! If the Bruhs had won and an Alpha had torn their check, I'd feel the same way. If the Sorors had won and an AKA had torn their check, I'd feel the same way. We are all supposed to be far above and beyond FIGHTING and I just don't buy that self-defense BS! Someone has to be the bigger person at some point.

And I'm O-U-T!!! :D

[DoggyStyle82]

I think violence is counter-productive and extremely irrational. I feel you Original Ape. If the situation were reversed, I'd be the first one throwing blows. It's unfortunate that by one person losing their cool and perspective can lead to such disastrous results (the public display of violence that leads many to the wrong belief about our orgs)

Its unfortunate. How do the Greeks get along in Cleveland?

[The Original Ape]

We get along...until the next clown try to front. People are, for the most part, the same all over.

[the411]

Originally posted by The Original Ape
We get along...until the next clown try to front. People are, for the most part, the same all over.

That's pretty sad :( and embarrassing :o .

And I'm Out!

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by The Original Ape
We get along...until the next clown try to front. People are, for the most part, the same all over.

I have never seen or witnessed a problem between the Bruhs and the Alphas on any of the yards that I have visited and been on, even where Alphas roll kind of "hard" (like at Indiana Univ of Pa.) Oh yeah, there was that fight on the Y2K (or was it '99) Pittsburgh Boatride, but its all luv now.

[CountryGurl]

I just thought ya'll may want to check out the new Beta Sigma website.

Southern Ques (http://www.southernques.com)

[AKA2D '91]

I found my cousin'sfrom Spr. 53 and Fall 53. :o My cousin's name in Spr. 53 is misspelled. :rolleyes: :D

ETA: Nice site! :D

[kiml122]

I checked out the site, I saw Delano's name from College Hill on the Fall '03 line.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
Yes, I am for interracial dating!!

Dogs and Ducks.

OOHh i'm sorry i missed that debate LOL! which thread was that on?

[CountryGurl]

Originally posted by kiml122
I checked out the site, I saw Delano's name from College Hill on the Fall '03 line.

Yeah Lano is Fall '03. If you think back and remember the commercials advertising College Hill they mentioned someone becoming Greek. Well Jy was already Greek.

[kiml122]

Originally posted by CountryGurl
Yeah Lano is Fall '03. If you think back and remember the commercials advertising College Hill they mentioned someone becoming Greek. Well Jy was already Greek.

Actually I never saw any of the commercials where it stated that someone would become greek. I just knew that he was a bruh because CT4 posted a pic of him wearing his letters and throwing up the hook in that College Hill thread. I knew it had to have been after the show was shot, because like you said, JY was already greek.

By the way, do you or anyone know what that JY stands for. I mean where did that come from?

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by kiml122

By the way, do you or anyone know what that JY stands for. I mean where did that come from?

I've been wondering the same thing.

[kiml122]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
I've been wondering the same thing.

Ok good, then I'm not the only one that is wondering this.

[CountryGurl]

Originally posted by kiml122

By the way, do you or anyone know what that JY stands for. I mean where did that come from?

Sorry, I have no idea what it stands for. You know it is when you get a nickname...no one remembers your birth name.:)

[the411]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
OOHh i'm sorry i missed that debate LOL! which thread was that on?

Goodness! That was like 3 years ago I think. I don't have a clue where it is. Long story short, Doggy did present a good defending case for those who are down with that. But as for me and my house...

[kiml122]

Originally posted by CountryGurl
You know it is when you get a nickname...no one remembers your birth name.:)

Ain't that the truth!!:p

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by the411
Goodness! That was like 3 years ago I think. I don't have a clue where it is. Long story short, Doggy did present a good defending case for those who are down with that. But as for me and my house...

When doesn't doggy present a good defending case:D

[MeezDiscreet]

Originally posted by CountryGurl
Sorry, I have no idea what it stands for. You know it is when you get a nickname...no one remembers your birth name.:)

"jy" stands for junk yard. i can't remember how i found that out. it may have been from the b.e.t. website.

[kiml122]

Originally posted by MeezDiscreet


"jy" stands for junk yard. i can't remember how i found that out. it may have been from the b.e.t. website.

Junk Yard, well who would have thunk it. Thanks Soror for that info.

[Sweetthangdst]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
Thank you Blackwatch and Greeknic for your well-reasoned responses. I abhor violence between Black men, especially amongst Black Greeks. I feel the Bruhs at SUs frustration. I do not feel that they should have been suspended, especially over off-campus events. This is where I feel that they have an argument.

Greeknic: I also applaud you for trying to return Greek Shows from "freakshows" and back to stepping.


I agree with DS82, I do not think they should have been suspended for an "Off Campus" event. Where does the campus "reach" end?