Cults

[33girl]

Has anyone ever had the experience of a family member or friend getting involved with a cult or cultlike group? Did they get out of it alright?

I know this is a very open ended and not too specific question...let's just say, I'm a little worried about someone close to me.

[carnation]

My sister-in-law was involved in what I term a "Christian cult"--they made all kinds of rules for member behavior. I've seen several of those in the South--they make you break all your CDs and are heavily into "discipling"--i.e., they boss you around and decide who you can date and marry.

Luckily, the couple who got her into it saw the light and got her out. Good thing,as we were tired of hearing about Brother whatsisface.

[bruinaphi]

Here is a useful website that talks about cults, how to help people who get involved, and support groups for families, etc.: www.factnet.org/ (http://www.factnet.org/).

I am kind of anti-right wing religious groups, but if you want to read the other perspective you should also check out www.religioustolerance.org (http://www.religioustolerance.org). Their perspective is that unless a religious groups threatens someone's life it is not a cult and that our labeling of groups as cults is religious intolerance. I disagree, but that is a matter of politics.

Good luck, I hope that the person you care about is safe and that the whole situation resolves itself.

Laura

[bruinaphi]

We all know that anything in life can be constructed to fit within the definitition of a cult. I don't think it's appropriate or fair of you to trivialize what 33girl and her family or friends may be going through. We all know that there are cults that convince people to leave mainstream society, commit suicide, or commit violent acts. There are also cults that have killed their members.

Be a little sensitive.

[curiouss]

Originally posted by brooklineu
Everything in life is a cult.

School is a cult that brainwashes you into thinking all the education you're getting means you're going to get a job in that field in the future.

Work is a cult that brainwashes you into thinking money will pay off all your problems.

The internet is a cult bent on sequestering people in their homes and limiting human contact.

How about the U.S. gov't?
Cult-like to me.
Anything bearucratic (spelling?).

School is a cult because it isn't only about education it's also about socialization. It introduces us to the system and how to be obedient to it, and punishes for disobeying. Why do people think that school is required for pupils under 16?
Do people think the gov't gives a hoot about who gets their education? I think not. However, they care about the socialization. (I think I've been reading way too much :p)

Work is similar, just on a more cut-throat scale.

I have to disagree with the last one. With me being out of school until mid January, besides my family and church, the internet is a good source for human contact.

Just IMHO!

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by carnation
My sister-in-law was involved in what I term a "Christian cult"--they made all kinds of rules for member behavior. I've seen several of those in the South--they make you break all your CDs and are heavily into "discipling"--i.e., they boss you around and decide who you can date and marry.

Luckily, the couple who got her into it saw the light and got her out. Good thing,as we were tired of hearing about Brother whatsisface.

I have a similar story. Several of my sorority sisters got involved in a religious group on campus that had some really crazy ideas. It was an offshoot of the Baptist Student Union, but none of the BSU students recognized it as an official religious group.

Among the usual things like "it's a sin to drink, even if you're 21", the group members had my sisters convinced that it was wrong to date. :eek: Not just that it was wrong to have sex before marriage (which I could understand some religious groups saying) - but that it was wrong to date PERIOD. So, the sisters became convinced that attending mixers with fraternities was wrong and it caused some problems in our chapter. Luckily, the majority of them realized after a few months how asinine some of the group's beliefs were and got out. But, from what I hear, that group is still going on my campus and girls are still getting sucked in. :rolleyes: It's pretty amazing how naive and easily-manipulated some people are.

[carnation]

DZrose--

Was the group at your school called Maranatha? There was a national group like that at one of the colleges here and it also had a chapter at Mississippi State. I promise you, it turned normal students into zombies. The leaders at both places had to give people permission to date and of course, the leader would always give the cutest girls permission to date himself.

I'm always wary of any student religious group that isn't part of a mainline denomination. They just tend to get too far out.

Curiouss, the reason that education to age 16 is required is so that the government doesn't have to support a ton of uneducated people who can't find jobs.

[MoxieGrrl]

I don't find it surprising at all that there was a cult-like group on a college campus. One of the best places to do cult recruiting is on a college campus b/c people are away from home, their churches, their friends for the first 18 years of their lives.... College students are looking for something to sink their teeth into with all of these changes going on. Someone that will parent them...i.e. the leader/members of a cult

The Hare Krishnas (anyone ever heard of them? bald heads with just a ponytail? wear peachy colored robes? Usually found at airports handing out those stupid paper flowers?)...well, they used to come to college campuses around here. A lot of kids used to join up, but more so in the 1960's and '70's....I don't know much about their beliefs, but they don't hurt anyone and they are listed as a cult on many websites about the subject.

(Just a little FYI on the Krishnas....they are a world-wide religion. And their "mecca" is in West Virginia!!??!! Figure that one out! I've been to their temple...it's called the Palace of Gold. It's absolutely gorgeous! Look it up on the Internet...it's actually pretty cool.)

[ZTAngel]

My parents have use to talk about the Hare Krishnas. They were all over the University of Florida back in the early 70's when my parents attended school there. My parents talked about how the group use to have these luncheons where they would give out free food so that they could get people to join their group. My parents would attend the luncheons for the free food and then leave when someone would start talking to them about their beliefs. :D

[carnation]

Oh boy, did we ever have the Hare Krishnas and the Moonies at colleges in the seventies. The Krishnas used to dance around the Honolulu dress shop I worked in and sing, "Krishna, Krishna!" until the manager kicked them off the property. The Moonies tried to sell flowers to the tourists--now these flowers were plumerias that had just dropped from the trees that the Moonies were standing under.

But the Christian cults are the scariest IMO because you can't tell they're not mainline right off until they've subtly begun to influence you.Also, you can spot a Krishna right off and get your guard up; not so with the Christian cults.

[shultzz]

Originally posted by brooklineu
Everything in life is a cult.

School is a cult that brainwashes you into thinking all the education you're getting means you're going to get a job in that field in the future.

Work is a cult that brainwashes you into thinking money will pay off all your problems.

The internet is a cult bent on sequestering people in their homes and limiting human contact.


I think the largest and most offensive cult in the world is the Catholic Church.
Did anyone hear about the priest in Boston who raped over 100 boys? The thing that offended me the most is the fact that the church officials were aware of this priests activities and they covered it up for 30 years. I think those officials are scum. Whats up with all these priests raping boys?

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by shultzz



I think the largest and most offensive cult in the world is the Catholic Church.
Did anyone hear about the priest in Boston who raped over 100 boys? The thing that offended me the most is the fact that the church officials were aware of this priests activities and they covered it up for 30 years. I think those officials are scum. Whats up with all these priests raping boys?

The number of priests who have been charged with rape is very small when compared to how many priests there are in the Catholic Church.

Shultzz, your statement about the Catholic Church puts you right up there with the close-minded people who label all fraternity men as rapists because of a few isolated incidents. :rolleyes:

[carnation]

Of course, having sex with an altar boy is wrong but individual priests making it with altar boys has nothing to do with whether a denomination is a cult.:rolleyes: Go do a study on what a cult is. Then go read the definition of the word "generalization".:rolleyes:

[aopirose]

Unfortunately, pedophiles can be found in all walks of life and religions. There was a Protestant pastor here who fathered a child by his daughter. He also molested several other children of his congregation for over 20 years. It is a shame that the perpetrators of these heinous crimes were allowed to hide behind those who protected them. I feel confident if these people are not punished in this life; they will surely be dealt with in the next.

BTW - The Catholic Church is not a cult. Those who believe so are grossly misinformed.


Originally posted by shultzz
I think the largest and most offensive cult in the world is the Catholic Church.
Did anyone hear about the priest in Boston who raped over 100 boys? The thing that offended me the most is the fact that the church officials were aware of this priests activities and they covered it up for 30 years. I think those officials are scum. Whats up with all these priests raping boys?

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by shultzz




This is NOT an isolated incident. These incidents have been going on for years and the church has been covering it up and brainwashing its members to believing nothing is wrong. A month doesn't go by that I dont hear a story about another priest having sex with an alter boy. I think its amazing that you are more offended at my comments than you are offended by the priests that are doing the deed. They are the ones you should be pissed at.

I'm Catholic. I've been a member of SEVERAL churches in the past 26 years and never, ever has there been a single case of rape reported in any of them. Quite frankly, I think you shouldn't be talking about something that you obviously know little about.

The news media loves dirt. So, of course, they're going to report and re-report on any case where a priest has allegedly raped someone. It's sensationalism at its best. However, if you choose to paint an entire religion as evil simply because some of its members have taken advantage of their positions over the years, then it's you who has been brainwashed... not the Catholics.

[KarenC725]

Originally posted by dzrose93


The number of priests who have been charged with rape is very small when compared to how many priests there are in the Catholic Church.

Shultzz, your statement about the Catholic Church puts you right up there with the close-minded people who label all fraternity men as rapists because of a few isolated incidents. :rolleyes:

Thank you. That's what I was thinking. Its all in the eye of the beholder, anything can be construed as a cult (religion of ALL kinds, greek life, etc.) DISCLAIMER: I don't believe that all religion or greek life is a cult, just making a point.

I'm not sure of the URL, but a bunch of experts did a study and came up with a "code" of what constitutes a cult. If you did some research, you could probably find some of the tell tale signs.

[Optimist Prime]

The definiton of a cult is anything the person defining it does not believe in. I won't say that the Catholic Church is a cult. But the Methodist one definitly is. PM me if you want to know why I think that.

[DG4evah]

A really good book to read for those who would like to get the facts (and not hearsay) about cults is Bob Larson's New Book of Cults. It is very interesting. Of course, it is from a Christian perspective.
It lists ALL kind of cults and what a cult actually is. As a loving Christian, I want as many facts as possible-this book outlines what they believe in. Because in many cases, these groups try to convert you & I would like to converse with people in an educated way. Also, I've found that they try to cover up what they really believe to hook you (& your money). Here are some tell-tale signs: Absolute loyalty, unquestioning submission, financial involvement(total or part), sensory deprivation and exclusivity. There is more to this list.
And, in case you are wondering, Catholics & Methodists are NOT listed as a cult. Whatever your beliefs , find out all you can about it. Don't just listen to what so and so told you. Read & research. We are blessed to be in America where we can have freedom of religion.

[James]

Funny, that could describe some Fraternity and Sorority Chapters. ;)

For the sake of argument, since the word cult has become a loaded term, pregnant with meaning beyond either the context it is being used in or the accepted dictionary definition, it might be better to use cult-like as the describing term.

The Catholic problem is understandable. Take a population and deny it a normal biological pattern (sexual relations, including masturbation)and you are going to get deviant behavior. Deviant meaning different from the accepted norm.

Formal Rush in well developed Greek systems uses some cult like patterns of recruitment, but so do other organizations. Why? Because they work, and the technology is neutral, even though the eventual results or initil intentions can be good or bad.


Originally posted by DG4evah
A really good book to read for those who would like to get the facts (and not hearsay) about cults is Bob Larson's New Book of Cults. It is very interesting. Of course, it is from a Christian perspective.
It lists ALL kind of cults and what a cult actually is. As a loving Christian, I want as many facts as possible-this book outlines what they believe in. Because in many cases, these groups try to convert you & I would like to converse with people in an educated way. Also, I've found that they try to cover up what they really believe to hook you (& your money). Here are some tell-tale signs: Absolute loyalty, unquestioning submission, financial involvement(total or part), sensory deprivation and exclusivity. There is more to this list.
And, in case you are wondering, Catholics & Methodists are NOT listed as a cult. Whatever your beliefs , find out all you can about it. Don't just listen to what so and so told you. Read & research. We are blessed to be in America where we can have freedom of religion.

[DG4evah]

That is pretty wacky, hootie!

[moe.ron]

Boston Red Sox's fan are all cult members. Just like the Scientology.

[hocnsoc81]

Ok, why hasn't Mr. Shultzz been banned yet?

[Optimist Prime]

Originally posted by hocnsoc81
Ok, why hasn't Mr. Shultzz been banned yet?

He hasn't done anything that merrits banning him.

[hocnsoc81]

Originally posted by Optimist Prime


He hasn't done anything that merrits banning him.

Yes he has. He's "offended" many people on GC. Like, dissing Catholics.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by hocnsoc81


Yes he has. He's "offended" many people on GC. Like, dissing Catholics.

Isn't this a classic textbook case of the pot calling the kettle black? :D

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by dzrose93


Isn't this a classic textbook case of the pot calling the kettle black? :D

LMAO. LMAO. LMAO.:p :p :D

[Optimist Prime]

Just because he's offended people doesn't warrant him being banned. And he didn't dis catholics, he critised a formal organised religon.

[hocnsoc81]

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
Just because he's offended people doesn't warrant him being banned.

Wasn't that the reason why I was banned? Interesting.............

[hocnsoc81]

Originally posted by dzrose93


Isn't this a classic textbook case of the pot calling the kettle black? :D

I have no issues with Shultzz, but many do. If I would've said some of the things he has said, the moderators and their enterauge (screw spelling) would not be happy campers. It's just something I am pondering........

BTW dzrose93, I've been feeling a little er....curious lately. Do you think you can satisfy it? *Puts my pinky in my mouth* :D :D :D

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by hocnsoc81
BTW dzrose93, I've been feeling a little er....curious lately. Do you think you can satisfy it? *Puts my pinky in my mouth* :D :D :D

You can't possibly think that people don't know you're SH80/SH80er/Curiouss do you?

We know a loT more abOut thaN You thAn you think :)

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by hocnsoc81
BTW dzrose93, I've been feeling a little er....curious lately. Do you think you can satisfy it? *Puts my pinky in my mouth* :D :D :D

Nah, then I'd have to go get a rabies shot and a whole round of STD tests. No thanks. :rolleyes:

[cash78mere]

Originally posted by hocnsoc81


Wasn't that the reason why I was banned? Interesting.............

when were you banned hocnsoc? i thought you were just Sh80's FRIEND. i don't remember that happening... which of your splits are you talking about?

[hocnsoc81]

Originally posted by dzrose93


Nah, then I'd have to go get a rabies shot and a whole round of STD tests. No thanks. :rolleyes:

You're right, bad idea. I don't want to have a rep of being a pedophile. :rolleyes:

[hocnsoc81]

Originally posted by cash78mere


when were you banned hocnsoc? i thought you were just Sh80's FRIEND. i don't remember that happening... which of your splits are you talking about?

Where have you been lately?

[cash78mere]

i've been here. i guess that event just wasn't life shattering enough for me to nocice:rolleyes:

really though...when were you banned and under what name?

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by hocnsoc81


You're right, bad idea. I don't want to have a rep of being a pedophile. :rolleyes:

Do you even know what the word "pedophile" means? Obviously not! :p

[hocnsoc81]

Originally posted by dzrose93


Do you even know what the word "pedophile" means? Obviously not! :p

My bad! :rolleyes:

[hocnsoc81]

Originally posted by cash78mere

really though...when were you banned and under what name?

somethinstupid, banned last April
SH80, banned last June
Diamonds00, banned last July
SH80er, banned last November
curiouss, banned last December

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by hocnsoc81


somethinstupid, banned last April
SH80, banned last June
Diamonds00, banned last July
SH80er, banned last November
curiouss, banned last December

Some people just don't know how to take a hint. :rolleyes:

[hocnsoc81]

Originally posted by dzrose93


Some people just don't know how to take a hint. :rolleyes:

Hey, what should be my next user name?

Somethinstupider
SH80est
Sheighty
ZTAResPsycho (thank Tibi for that one :rolleyes: )
APOResPsycho
GCResPsycho
MoreCuriouss

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by hocnsoc81


Hey, what should be my next user name?

Somethinstupider
SH80est
Sheighty
ZTAResPsycho (thank Tibi for that one :rolleyes: )
APOResPsycho
GCResPsycho
MoreCuriouss

Here's a thought... Don't waste the few brain cells you've got by trying to think up a new screenname. Instead, just quit while you're ahead and find a new board to bother.

Sounds good to me! And I'm sure we can find other GCer's to second that motion. :)

[hocnsoc81]

Originally posted by dzrose93


Here's a thought... Don't waste the few brain cells you've got by trying to think up a new screenname. Instead, just quit while you're ahead and find a new board to bother.


Here's the deal, I'll leave if:

A. I get some respect on GC.
B. Find a better board for fun and advice.
C. Get a valid explanation why I've been bashed, while others have not.
D. I am given an apology for that.
E. I am forgiven for the few things I've done wrong.
F. Leave in good standing
G. If GC discovers how to ban me permanently,
like one site has.
OR
H. All above.

[carnation]

Well, I've got several ideas and they start with revealing your real name both to your university and to APO--your chapter and the national office.

[hocnsoc81]

Originally posted by carnation
Well, I've got several ideas and they start with revealing your real name both to your university and to APO--your chapter and the national office.

Carnation, if that is your aim to get me in trouble, it will not work. Because, DUH I have not done anything wrong, but annoyed people. BTW, just about everyone I know, knows about the GC situation, they don't care! It would be different if ever threatened someone or confess to a crime. Did I do any of that??? Hmmmm, NO!

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by hocnsoc81


Here's the deal, I'll leave if:

A. I get some respect on GC.
B. Find a better board for fun and advice.
C. Get a valid explanation why I've been bashed, while others have not.
D. I am given an apology for that.
E. I am forgiven for the few things I've done wrong.
F. Leave in good standing
G. If GC discovers how to ban me permanently,
like one site has.
OR
H. All above.

A. Respect is something you earn, and you haven't earned anything but disgust from people on this board because of your comments -- many of which have been made by way of very unappropriate and unsolicited PM's to GCers.

B. You aren't interested in fun and advice, so I highly doubt that any board will have what you're looking for.

C. You've been told many, many times by many, many GCers why certain comments you've made have been inappropriate. You've given insincere apologies, and then proceeded to make the same types of remarks under new screennames. THAT is why you've been banned. If you don't see the validity in that explanation, then you're as blind as a bat.

D. You don't deserve an apology. None of the ones you've made on this site have been anywhere close to sincere, so why the hell should anyone offer an olive branch in your direction?

E. To be forgiven for something, you first must show true remorse. You've shown none, therefore forgiveness in this case isn't deserved.

F. You must be off of your meds if you think you could ever leave this board in good standing considering all the obscene, racist comments you've made and the insults you've doled out.

G. Most people would realize that hanging around where they aren't wanted is pointless and would have moved on long ago. Unfortunately, you couldn't get a clue if Sherlock Holmes himself handed it to you printed in big, bold letters. :rolleyes: The fact that you've been permanently banned from another chat board comes as no surprise to any of us, I'm quite sure.

H. Hell will freeze over first.

[The1calledTKE]

Originally posted by Arya
Boston Red Sox's fan are all cult members. Just like the Scientology.

I have to disagree with you on that one Boston Rocks! :)

[hocnsoc81]

Originally posted by dzrose93


G. Most people would realize that hanging around where they aren't wanted is pointless and would have moved on long ago. Unfortunately, you couldn't get a clue if Sherlock Holmes himself handed it to you printed in big, bold letters. :rolleyes:



It is not pointless. I don't know about other people, but I do not run away from problems nor conflict until it is solved. I'm not a quitter.

That goes back to my origional question, if all that above is true, then why isn't shultzz banned?

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by hocnsoc81


It is not pointless. I don't know about other people, but I do not run away from problems nor conflict until it is solved. I'm not a quitter.

That goes back to my origional question, if all that above is true, then why isn't shultzz banned?

Newsflash: A conflict can't get solved if you keep starting the same old sh*t every other day. If you think that coming back time and again under new screennames after being banned is a way to solve conflict -- a way to show that you're not a "quitter" -- then you are seriously deluded. All it's doing is making you appear more foolish and desperate than ever.

There are times when you have to let things go -- this is one of them. You've already dug a hole here on GC that's too big for you to ever climb out. There is NO way for you to redeem yourself on this board, but you don't seem to understand that truth. You just don't know how to let things go, and that's a personal problem that YOU need to deal with, on your own. I'm being serious here, SH80. You really do seem to have some issues that you need to take some time to work out. But GC is not the medium for you to do so.

To answer your other question, shultzz hasn't started one-tenth of the drama that you have on this board, and he hasn't insulted 99.9% of the regulars like you have, either. He very rarely posts, and he's relatively easy to ignore. You, however, keep pushing and pushing until you piss people off. I really hope that you don't do that in real life. If so, then you're going to wind up a really miserable person down the road, because that kind of person is someone that people prefer not to be around. Again, I'm being serious here. I'm not trying to insult you -- I'm just giving you a heads up as to how you make people perceive you.

Take some friendly advice and find yourself another message board. One where no one knows you and you can **maybe** make a better online rep for yourself. Think before you post, and you might be more successful on another board. But please leave GC out of your drama from now on.

[carnation]

Hocnsoc, I have already seen a copy of the message you sent to Steeltrap and it was obscene, which of course translates to illegal. Your internet provider would be very interested as would your university and APO if you're posting illegal crap, which you are.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by hocnsoc81


It is not pointless. I don't know about other people, but I do not run away from problems nor conflict until it is solved. I'm not a quitter.

That goes back to my origional question, if all that above is true, then why isn't shultzz banned?
I think that I haven't yet commented on this sh80/sh80er/curiouss situation. I have read many of your posts and have found some of them to be terribly rude and offensive. You wrote that you don't run away from problems nor conflict, but you are the problem and the cause of conflict. You wrote what I inferred to be a sincere apology around Christmas or New Year's Day, and soon returned to your old ways. Many people have suggested the things that you can do in order to make amends and have peace in your life. I suggest, no I strongly urge, that you reread those posts and folow their advice. As for your earlier post:
a. Respect youself
b. You can start you own better board.
c. to h. I really don't have the time to get into them, but I hope that you find the happiness that seems to be lacking in your life. Good luck! Isn't there enough anger and hostility in the world without you contributing to it?

[33girl]

Why isn't shultzz banned?

a. He understands basic message board etiquette and doesn't post multiple messages in a row. Condensing isn't just for milk, dear.

b. His comment about Catholicism generated a valid discussion...AND he didn't say "33 and all the other Catholics are in a cult." It was a comment toward a THING not a PERSON.

c. He doesn't insult specific people, he's just being slightly male piggish. His posts are very infrequent, very short and very easy to skip if you are so inclined.

d. His "I am not SH80, I am a different obnoxious person" post. That was dang funny.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

The remark by schultzz about the Catholic Church was rude, harsh, and offensive.:mad:

[Optimist Prime]

the defination of cult= any group or organisation which does not reveal all of its practices and believes to people they are trying to recruit. This includes most organised religions, especially in the Judeo-Christian perspective. The Apygotitga (sp??) means hidden books, i.e. they were delibertly kept out of the bible. So there.

[greeklawgirl]

I think you meant "Apocrypha." Those were books that were kept out of the Bible because the Council at Nicea (I know that's misspelled) couldn't agree on their provenance. However, many of the stories in the Apocrypha create the basis for many traditional beliefs in both the Catholic and Orthodox Christian Churches.

[Optimist Prime]

Yeah thats what I meant :) Thanks