Wal-Fart Tries again for New York [Archive]

NinjaPoodle

12-13-2010, 11:09 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/nyregion/13walmart.html?_r=1&nl=nyregion&emc=ura1

New York Times:
By ELIZABETH A. HARRIS
Published: December 12, 2010

The New York City Council was supposed to hold a hearing this Tuesday about a renewed campaign by Wal-Mart to open its stores in the city.
But it had to be rescheduled, for January.

“We needed a bigger room,” the Council speaker, Christine C. Quinn, said. “We heard from unions all across the city, small business leaders from across the city. It’s a growing list of people.”

Wal-Mart, an inescapable part of the retail landscape just about everywhere except in New York City, twice retreated on efforts to open stores in the city after fierce community opposition.

Now it is back, and mounting an aggressive campaign to crack the country’s largest urban market. Wal-Mart is looking at properties in each of the five boroughs and has hired Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg’s former campaign manager, Bradley Tusk, to help coordinate its lobbying efforts. ***Go to link to read the rest***

DrPhil

12-13-2010, 11:16 AM

Yes, Wal-Fart! LOL.

I hate Wal-Mart.

A city without Wal-Mart = Heaven

(Super)Target is better if you insist on superstores.

Kevin

12-13-2010, 11:21 AM

Wal-Mart in Okieland is truly a thing to behold.

People who are too fat to walk around the store and thus must use motorized scooters are practically a dime-a-dozen.

knight_shadow

12-13-2010, 11:25 AM

Haven't read the article, but where are they going to put a Wal-Mart? In order to get enough space to stay true to their business model, they'll have to pay out the ass. That's going to get passed down to the customers, which will nix their "always low prices" spiel.

#RetailFail

Senusret I

12-13-2010, 11:25 AM

DC is getting FOUR Walmarts. I am so disappointed.

DrPhil

12-13-2010, 11:28 AM

DC is getting FOUR Walmarts. I am so disappointed.

WTF? Dumb, DC, dumb.

knight_shadow

12-13-2010, 11:29 AM

DC is getting FOUR Walmarts. I am so disappointed.

Dallas is a LOT larger than DC and NYC (land area), and the closest locations are 5-10 miles outside of the city center. I don't know how the company plans to put these stores up in the cities and keep prices low.

Munchkin03

12-13-2010, 11:32 AM

Wal-Mart in Okieland is truly a thing to behold.

People who are too fat to walk around the store and thus must use motorized scooters are practically a dime-a-dozen.

It's totally true but I couldn't help but to LOL. It's like that in Floriduh as well.

DrPhil

12-13-2010, 11:32 AM

Wal-Marts are like alien invasions and subsequent alien life forms that take over humanity.

OleMissGlitter

12-13-2010, 11:40 AM

Well when you live in a small town like I do, Wal-Fart can be your only option. I will say I have grown to like Kroger and their prices are just as competitive if you have coupons. Oxford, MS does not have enough people to support a Target but I guess I can dream....
Now growing up in New Orleans we never went to Wal-Fart. It was local business all the way!!!!

AlphaFrog

12-13-2010, 11:49 AM

Munchkin03

12-13-2010, 12:04 PM

I think one of the major logic flaws here on Walmart's part (besides the real estate issue) is the fact that their business model heavily relies on the "one stop shopping" pitch (along with the low prices). People who ride the subway/use taxis don't need one-stop shopping, because then they have to figure out how to get all that crap home. It takes me 2-3 trips to unload the car after a box-store trip. I sure as Hell wouldn't want to be doing that at a 10th floor walkup with the meter running....

It all depends on where they are in NYC. In Brooklyn, Queens, and The Bronx enough people have cars and/or parking near their home, so it wouldn't be an issue. In Staten Island it's suburban enough where virtually everyone has a car. In Manhattan, chances are they'll deliver like Target, Costco, and Bed Bath and Beyond. Other box stores have been extremely successful. Also, with the advent of Zipcar and other cheap car rental services not having a car isn't that big a deal.

They could succeed in Staten Island, and the far reaches of The Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn. Enough people out there live in single-family houses and have cars. I hate Wal-Mart but I think they know what they're doing. I wonder how they'd do since NYC is pretty strong union-wise, but I'm not so concerned real-estate wise.

knight_shadow

12-13-2010, 12:07 PM

I hope this doesn't start a trend of putting the stores in/near city centers. I'm not opposed to shopping at Wal-Mart, but I don't want to look at one if I'm in Downtown or Uptown Dallas (or Houston, or Austin,...).

DrPhil

12-13-2010, 12:10 PM

I hate Wal-Mart but I think they know what they're doing.

Yep.

Also, people don't always go to Wal-Mart to get bags upon bags of things. Sometimes they want to pick up a loaf of bread, get their prescription from the pharmacy, and check out the new Wii game, all while waiting for their oil change at the Tire Lube Xpress (for the Wal-Marts that have that).

I hate Wal-Mart but it is capitalism at its finest (minus the fair employment model that smart capitalists would use).

Munchkin03

12-13-2010, 12:13 PM

Yep.

Also, people don't always go to Wal-Mart to get bags upon bags of things. Sometimes they want to pick up a loaf of bread, get their prescription from the pharmacy, and check out the new Wii game, all while waiting for their oil change at the Tire Lube Xpress (for the Wal-Marts that have that).

Sometimes that one thing grows into 5 or 6 things. I suffer from Target Disease big-time. I go in to pick up a video game for my nephew or a movie, and I walk out with $80 worth of stuff. Damn damn damn!

Does Wal-Mart disease work the same way, or is that just Type 2 diabetes and hypertension? I kid...

DrPhil

12-13-2010, 12:39 PM

Sometimes that one thing grows into 5 or 6 things. I suffer from Target Disease big-time. I go in to pick up a video game for my nephew or a movie, and I walk out with $80 worth of stuff. Damn damn damn!

Does Wal-Mart disease work the same way, or is that just Type 2 diabetes and hypertension? I kid...

Stores, particularly superstores, love shoppers like you. :) I call that the "damn, I spent a lot" recipe once you get to the register.

I'm more of a planned shopper especially when it comes to superstores. If I go to SuperTarget for a couple of items, I usually only get the couple of items. I don't browse the store and pick up stuff unless I intentionally allotted a few extra minutes and extra dollars to pick up stuff.

ThetaPrincess24

12-13-2010, 12:45 PM

Wal-Mart in Okieland is truly a thing to behold.

People who are too fat to walk around the store and thus must use motorized scooters are practically a dime-a-dozen.

Yes--That is common in Kentucky too. I can also bet on having to pass by someone who's B.O. smells like they havent showered in weeks each and everytime I am in there.

I try to stick with Kroger or Target whenever possible just to avoid longer lines and less riff-raff.

33girl

12-13-2010, 12:47 PM

I used to be like that with Target when it first came here, but now I'm more "go in, get it, get out."

I'll go there and K-Mart (the K Mart is the nearest and least stressful) but I avoid Walmart like the plague, unless it's 1 AM and I need Nyquil or something. The nearest Walmart to me supposedly is the one with the worst shoplifting rate in the land.

Target is going into East Liberty (where many of the shoppers don't have cars) and it will be interesting to see. Finally a replacement for the Sears that closed in the 1980s.

agzg

12-13-2010, 01:06 PM

Target is going into East Liberty (where many of the shoppers don't have cars) and it will be interesting to see. Finally a replacement for the Sears that closed in the 1980s.

That certainly is interesting. Do you usually go to the Target in Homestead? I used to work there.

AlphaFrog

12-13-2010, 01:10 PM

In Manhattan, chances are they'll deliver like Target, Costco, and Bed Bath and Beyond. Other box stores have been extremely successful.

Our local grocery store started a delivery service in the last year. The weird thing is that I'm on the outskirts of Suburbia, and the only excuse for having your groceries delivered is if you are extremely elderly or disabled....other than that I would just consider people lazy that use it. I guess they have enough demand to keep It going, though.

33girl

12-13-2010, 01:12 PM

That certainly is interesting. Do you usually go to the Target in Homestead? I used to work there.

Either there or Monroeville. The Waterfront isn't as handy as it used to be since I moved, not to mention the construction from hell that has been going on for the last year or so.

But yeah, it is bizarre to see this gigunda Target going up right on Penn Ave. I forget if I mentioned there's now an Anthropologie and a fancy bike shop in EL too...the neighborhood is changing so much and I just hope it ends up being a positive thing.

agzg

12-13-2010, 01:14 PM

Either there or Monroeville. The Waterfront isn't as handy as it used to be since I moved, not to mention the construction from hell that has been going on for the last year or so.

But yeah, it is bizarre to see this gigunda Target going up right on Penn Ave. I forget if I mentioned there's now an Anthropologie and a fancy bike shop in EL too...the neighborhood is changing so much and I just hope it ends up being a positive thing.

I hope so, too. For such a blighted neighborhood they could really use some positive businesses going in. It probably won't be a Super Target, though - is a Giant Eagle moving in next door?

ETA: Is this part of a gentrification initiative for that area? If so, where will the people that live in Sliberty go?

ETA2: I didn't know there was construction going on around the Waterfront. When I was there (I lived right over the Homestead Grey's bridge in Squirrel Hill/Greenfield) they were just working on the bridge.

DrPhil

12-13-2010, 01:26 PM

Our local grocery store started a delivery service in the last year. The weird thing is that I'm on the outskirts of Suburbia, and the only excuse for having your groceries delivered is if you are extremely elderly or disabled....other than that I would just consider people lazy that use it. I guess they have enough demand to keep It going, though.

I say most of the people who use that service are just lazy. The elderly or disabled will be a relatively small percentage of the users.

I like that some stores have the curbside service. You order online and they get the groceries to you. I have never used it because I have no reason to. It is mostly used by parents of young children, elderly, and disabled. I guess some lazy people also use it but lazy people may also be too lazy to place an order and sit on a curb for it.

33girl

12-13-2010, 01:29 PM

I hope so, too. For such a blighted neighborhood they could really use some positive businesses going in. It probably won't be a Super Target, though - is a Giant Eagle moving in next door?

ETA: Is this part of a gentrification initiative for that area? If so, where will the people that live in Sliberty go?

It's right across the street from the GE there. There's also a Trader Joe's in the old Phar Mor plaza but it's a really tiny one and IMO impossible to do your full food shopping there - for example, I went there and then had to go to the Bird & get basic things like tomato juice because TJ's didn't have it. The big deal is Whole Foods, which is over in the Circle and actually has to have parking lot attendants because it gets so insanely packed.

In answer to your ETA, I would say yes, and well, that's part of my concern. They're trying to rebrand the area as "Eastside" and trying to appeal to what is referred to as the creative class (or hipsters, YMMV). This explains it better than I can.

http://www.eastofliberty.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoODGpf4ing

The thing is, the Target should have been the FIRST thing to go into the neighborhood (as I said, to replace the Sears and to give the area a general merchandise store other than Family Dollar) but I guess they wanted to wait and see how things would shake out. I can't blame them as a business, but as a person it kind of irks me that they lacked the balls to step up.

ETA: The Rankin bridge is the construction I refer to. It's a pain in the ass.

agzg

12-13-2010, 01:37 PM

It's right across the street from the GE there. There's also a Trader Joe's in the old Phar Mor plaza but it's a really tiny one and IMO impossible to do your full food shopping there - for example, I went there and then had to go to the Bird & get basic things like tomato juice because TJ's didn't have it. The big deal is Whole Foods, which is over in the Circle and actually has to have parking lot attendants because it gets so insanely packed.

In answer to your ETA, I would say yes, and well, that's part of my concern. They're trying to rebrand the area as "Eastside" and trying to appeal to what is referred to as the creative class (or hipsters, YMMV). This explains it better than I can.

http://www.eastofliberty.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoODGpf4ing

The thing is, the Target should have been the FIRST thing to go into the neighborhood (as I said, to replace the Sears and to give the area a general merchandise store other than Family Dollar) but I guess they wanted to wait and see how things would shake out. I can't blame them as a business, but as a person it kind of irks me that they lacked the balls to step up.

ETA: The Rankin bridge is the construction I refer to. It's a pain in the ass.

I'll watch those when I get home from work - thanks so much.

Also, I did know about the Rankin bridge but totally forgot - I have a few friends that live in Pgh still and they complain about it pretty consistently. One friend mentioned he sat on the bridge for over 2 hours one day.

ETA: Also, I wouldn't call hipsters a trade up from the current/recent population.

cheerfulgreek

12-13-2010, 01:59 PM

I hope they fail.

NinjaPoodle, I love you for the title of this thread. You Win! :p

DrPhil

12-13-2010, 02:02 PM

I hope they fail.

NinjaPoodle, I love you for the title of this thread. You Win! :p

LOL. Exactly!

knight_shadow

12-13-2010, 02:04 PM

CG absolutely hates Wally World hahaha

PiKA2001

12-13-2010, 02:22 PM

DC is getting FOUR Walmarts. I am so disappointed.

The problem with Wally Worlds is that they spread like cancer once they taste even marginal success. Those four Walmarts in DC could end up becoming 9 Walmarts by 2020......:rolleyes:

I'm not a fan of Walmart myself, but they are extremely popular here in El Paso, TX. There is a Walmart about a mile and a half east as well as one about a mile and a half west of me. Both on the same street.

knight_shadow

12-13-2010, 02:26 PM

The problem with Wally Worlds is that they spread like cancer once they taste even marginal success. Those four Walmarts in DC could end up becoming 9 Walmarts by 2020......:rolleyes:

I'm not a fan of Walmart myself, but they are extremely popular here in El Paso, TX. There is a Walmart about a mile and a half east as well as one about a mile and a half west of me. Both on the same street.

I can SOMEWHAT understand the abundance of Wal-Marts in Sunbelt states, but that's ridiculous. Are you near DT EP? Or on the outskirts?

There's a WM less than a mile from my apartment, and probably 4-5 within a 10 mile radius. I live in one of the larger suburbs, though, so I get it. I would be highly upset if they built one in DT Dallas, FW, or in Las Colinas.

cheerfulgreek

12-13-2010, 02:31 PM

People who are too fat and lazy to walk around the store and thus must use motorized scooters are practically a dime-a-dozen.
FYP.:)

PiKA2001

12-13-2010, 02:36 PM

I wonder how they'd do since NYC is pretty strong union-wise

Probably pretty good, just as they have been in other strong union areas such as Detroit. The "buy American" or "shop union" types pretty much ignored the Walmart expansion in MI.

pshsx1

12-13-2010, 02:42 PM

PiKA2001

12-13-2010, 02:46 PM

I can SOMEWHAT understand the abundance of Wal-Marts in Sunbelt states, but that's ridiculous. Are you near DT EP? Or on the outskirts?

There's a WM less than a mile from my apartment, and probably 4-5 within a 10 mile radius. I live in one of the larger suburbs, though, so I get it. I would be highly upset if they built one in DT Dallas, FW, or in Las Colinas.

I'm about 5 minutes East of DT and it's just this part of town where they have the Wal-marts galore.

knight_shadow

12-13-2010, 02:51 PM

There are definitely 5 Wal Marts in Plano (Dallas suburb). The closest one is literally a stone's throw away... Actually, I live under 25 minutes from 4 of them.

And then there's the Wal Marts just outside of Plano...

Surprisingly, I haven't seen one since I've started working up here. I've seen several Tom Thumbs, but no WMs.

I'm about 5 minutes East of DT and it's just this part of town where they have the Wal-marts galore.

Hmm. That's odd. I think the only reason I have so many in a close radius is because I'm near the borders of several cities, so each city wants its own.

cheerfulgreek

12-13-2010, 02:54 PM

Probably pretty good, just as they have been in other strong union areas such as Detroit. The "buy American" or "shop union" types pretty much ignored the Walmart expansion in MI.
It's like they've loaded a plane full of Wal-FART stores and dropped them all over Michigan!

http://www.war-stories.com/images/a_b52-bombs-away-01.gif

eta: I just wish they would explode as they hit the ground.

http://www.gifninja.com/Workspace/afa452d7-28b9-40c0-b633-ffd087e860ba/output.gif

AlphaFrog

12-13-2010, 03:04 PM

I hate Wal-Mart but it is capitalism at its finest (minus the fair employment model that smart capitalists would use).

Just curious what you mean about "fair employment model"...if you're talking about the legal problems the individual stores get themselves in (hiring illegals, racial/sexual discrimination suits, etc) fair enough...but if you're talking wages/benefits, when I worked there in high school, starting wages for my department -shoes (which was actually one of the lower paying departments, because we never had to mess with the register) was about $1 above minimum wage. Cashiers started at $2-3 above minimum wage. True, that's not great money, but it's also not rocket science. I personally don't see a problem with jobs that require very little education/experience paying much lower wages than jobs that require more qualifications. Also, they actually do have pretty good benefits.

PiKA2001

12-13-2010, 03:08 PM

I remember a pre-Wal-mart metro Detroit, when we all had to do our shopping at either Meijer, Target or K-mart.

The good ole days...

Kevin

12-13-2010, 03:37 PM

Yes--That is common in Kentucky too. I can also bet on having to pass by someone who's B.O. smells like they havent showered in weeks each and everytime I am in there.

I try to stick with Kroger or Target whenever possible just to avoid longer lines and less riff-raff.

Yeah. Every time I read those polls taken in my fine state making us appear to be a bunch of backwoodsy hillbilly types, I wonder where those people are, because I never actually see those folks anywhere I go.

Then I go to Wal-Mart.

I swear there must be some alternate universe out there where these folks come from and Wal-Mart is the only location their world and ours has in common. Well--maybe Bass Pro Shops as well.

agzg

12-13-2010, 03:50 PM

Yeah. Every time I read those polls taken in my fine state making us appear to be a bunch of backwoodsy hillbilly types, I wonder where those people are, because I never actually see those folks anywhere I go.

Then I go to Wal-Mart.

I swear there must be some alternate universe out there where these folks come from and Wal-Mart is the only location their world and ours has in common. Well--maybe Bass Pro Shops as well.

Real Americans (TM) can only shop at Wal-Mart and Bass Pro Shops (when they're high-fallutin, they shop from the Cabela's Catalog).

Munchkin03

12-13-2010, 03:52 PM

Real Americans (TM) can only shop at Wal-Mart and Bass Pro Shops (when they're high-fallutin, they shop from the Cabela's Catalog).

Amurrrrricans!

agzg

12-13-2010, 03:53 PM

knight_shadow

12-13-2010, 04:00 PM

I feel bad. I really have no problem with those that shop at Wal-Mart or Bass Pro. It's just that Target is closer to me than Wal-Mart and I don't hunt or fish. Besides, Target gets the same clientelle.

Not in DFW. There's a clear distinction between the customers of Wal-Mart vs. Target vs. Whole Foods

agzg

12-13-2010, 04:02 PM

Not in DFW. There's a clear distinction between the customers of Wal-Mart vs. Target vs. Whole Foods

Perhaps. I've noticed that people see what they want to see in the clientelle at any establishment. The folks that shop at Target in any area I've lived in are every bit as trashy OR hoity toity as any Wal-Mart.

Munchkin03

12-13-2010, 04:04 PM

I feel bad. I really have no problem with those that shop at Wal-Mart or Bass Pro. It's just that Target is closer to me than Wal-Mart and I don't hunt or fish. Besides, Target gets the same clientelle.

I really like Bass Pro Shop. It's like an outdoorsman's version of Walt Disney World!

PiKA2001

12-13-2010, 04:04 PM

Not in DFW. There's a clear distinction between the customers of Wal-Mart vs. Target vs. Whole Foods

Same here.

ThetaPrincess24

12-13-2010, 05:13 PM

Not in DFW. There's a clear distinction between the customers of Wal-Mart vs. Target vs. Whole Foods

Yes! Same here in Kentucky or in Lexington anyway.

DSTRen13

12-13-2010, 05:17 PM

knight_shadow

12-13-2010, 05:31 PM

Around here, your average WM customer is slightly more upscale than the average Target customer. Target seems to have really given up on our whole area, and the few stores they have are poorly maintained and in crap areas. Walmart, on the other hand, is constantly updating its stores, there are lots of them, and they are in nice, convenient spots. It's weird; before moving here, I was used to the exact opposite and never set foot in a Walmart. I've even written to Target, begging them to fix it because I feel like such a traitor ...

That's weird.

The Wal-Marts here (and I suspect nationally) are trying to "Target-ize" themselves, but they still end up looking more rundown and dirtier.

Most WMs are in "right off the highway/bus stop" locations, while Targets are closer to neighborhoods. The Whole Foods stores (with the exception of one) are located in ultra-affluent areas. When you walk inside the stores, the difference between the 3 is extremely obvious.

Tulip86

12-13-2010, 05:40 PM

Where I lived (Orange County) Target stores tend to be closer to the city centers and more upscale. The Wal-Marts are definately larger but near industrial areas or clustered with Home Depot and such.

AnotherKD

12-14-2010, 11:25 AM

I haven't heard that DC is supposed to get 4 WalMarts (are we talking DC or DC Metro area?) but as far as I'm concerned, the one that will go up on Georgia Ave will be more positive than negative. It's not like one is going up on Capitol Hill or in Georgetown. There aren't many mom-and-pop places in that area that WalMart will hurt, and the ones that may be considered as such are price-gouging bodegas. I don't think that cheaper food, basic clothing, and housewares is a bad thing to bring to that area. Granted, I'm within walking distance (if I have a rolly-cart) from the Target at DCUSA, so I probably won't go to the WalMart anyways.

Still BLUTANG

12-14-2010, 02:06 PM

AnotherKD, the 4 new DC Wal-Marts are supposed to be inside the city. apparently they're going to be smaller than the traditional walmart layouts and focus on grocery and other staples.

AznSAE

12-15-2010, 10:45 PM