Fraternity Member Branded TCU

[LaneSig]

FORT WORTH — One of the most prominent families in Fort Worth wants answers about what happened to their son.

Amon Carter IV came home from a trip with his buddies branded and seriously burned.

Fraternity branding is a growing phenomenon, but this incident goes far beyond that. The family of the great, great grandson of Amon Carter is asking how could it happen — with no one held accountable and no one raising an alarm?

Everyone seems to agree it was a stupid decision by several TCU students, the result of a night of drinking — perhaps a dare.

Amon Carter IV, a sophomore who goes by the name of "Chance," told News 8 he consented to be branded on his buttock, but that he did not consent to what eventually happened.

Chance's dad, Amon Carter III, has retained a lawyer to make sure the branding is investigated by police and also school officials.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Amon-Carter-IV-branded-burned-by-fraternity-chums-82758112.html

The story doesn't mention which fraternity he belongs to. It does mention that the incident happened on a trip to Breckenridge, Co., but doesn't say if it was fraternity sponsored or just a group on their own.

[DrPhil]

Everything that a dumb collegiate does is not cause for a chapter getting in trouble or a fraternity getting sued.

He went on a trip, got drunk, agreed to get branded on his ass, and it didn't come out as he had hopes. DUH he didn't agree to get burned on the ass. Brands sometimes don't come out as hoped. Lesson learned.

(There are instances where members are pressured or physically forced to get brands.)

[knight_shadow]

Everything that a dumb collegiate does is not cause for a chapter getting in trouble or a fraternity getting sued.

He went on a trip, got drunk, agreed to get branded on his ass, and it didn't come out as he had hopes. DUH he didn't agree to get burned on the ass. Brands sometimes don't come out as hoped. Lesson learned.

(There are instances where members are pressured or physically forced to get brands.)

Cosign.

I'd think that everyone would be on their best behavior around someone in the Amon Carter family, but that's what I get for assuming.

I'm sure I'll be hearing more about this as time progresses.

[AOII Angel]

That is truly disgusting. Poor guy. I think the most important point made was that hazing is against the law and no one can consent to being hazed.

I knew a Delta Sig in college who got branded on his ankle the night before our school's mud volleyball tourney. After playing, he and his brothers hosed off in front of their house. His skin slid off with the mud leaving a large square defect on his ankle. He had a massive scar when it healed. I don't think people have any idea what they are doing when they try to brand themselves or others.

[DrPhil]

He's a member of a fraternity who consented to getting a brand. He's saving face for his wealthy helicopter family. And they are reacting as a wealthy helicopter family would.

[AOII Angel]

He's a member of a fraternity who consented to getting a brand. He's saving face for his wealthy helicopter family. And they are reacting as a wealthy helicopter family would.

Did you see the video? That does not look like a branding that anyone would agree to. That looks like assault. My first reaction was the same as yours, but you can't expect him to take one in the *ss just because he has a prominent family. Would you say this to a rape victim who consented but said no once it got out of control? This event, by the looks of his wound, got wayyyyyy out of control!

[knight_shadow]

Did you see the video? That does not look like a branding that anyone would agree to. That looks like assault. My first reaction was the same as yours, but you can't expect him to take one in the *ss just because he has a prominent family.

How many brands have you seen?

There are some that turn out OK, but a lot of them end up looking like shit.

You (general you) should know what you're getting into before agreeing to get one.

[Elephant Walk]

That is truly disgusting. Poor guy. I think the most important point made was that hazing is against the law and no one can consent to being hazed.

People can absolutely consent to be hazed.

[AOII Angel]

People can absolutely consent to be hazed.
Not according to Texas law. Does someone know about Colorado law? Since this did occur in Colorado. I don't know if they could prosecute these kids in TX anyway since it didn't occur there.

[DrPhil]

Would you say this to a rape victim who consented but said no once it got out of control?

:rolleyes:

Anyway, my opinion will only be changed when I hear more about these "defensive wounds" that he supposedly has in places other than his ass. Until then, it looks like a horrible attempt at branding by a bunch of binge drinking and out of control college students. I don't assume hazing or assault solely based on that.

[AOII Angel]

How many brands have you seen?

There are some that turn out OK, but a lot of them end up looking like shit.

You (general you) should know what you're getting into before agreeing to get one.

I've seen a few, but I actually have a lot of experience with burns. That brand was the result of multiple applications. They would have had to heat the brand and apply it to his skin more than once. The majority of brands I have seen have been a single sybol that is no larger than about 6". Anything larger risks skin sloughing since the skin around the brand will actually cook as well as the skin below the appliance. It may not look too terrible to you now, but the cell death will spread over the next few days...that's why he'll require several surgeries to repair the damage.

[AOII Angel]

:rolleyes:

Anyway, my opinion will only be changed when I hear more about these "defensive wounds" that he supposedly has in places other than his ass. Until then, it looks like a horrible attempt at branding by a bunch of binge drinking and out of control college students. I don't assume hazing or assault solely based on that.

I just don't assume someone is lying because they have money and a privileged background. No one has been named and no fraternity has been maligned. It hurts no one to assume that this man was assaulted like he says. I also know that not many people could sit still while someone applied a white hot piece of metal to their skin multiple times even while drunk.

[Elephant Walk]

Not according to Texas law. Does someone know about Colorado law? Since this did occur in Colorado. I don't know if they could prosecute these kids in TX anyway since it didn't occur there.

Just because the law says it does not make it reality.

[AOII Angel]

Just because the law says it does not make it reality.

But reality will still put your ass behind bars.

[DrPhil]

I've seen a few, but I actually have a lot of experience with burns. That brand was the result of multiple applications. They would have had to heat the brand and apply it to his skin more than once.

That is often how it is done. The majority of GLO branders (going back to the much more visible BGLO branding) do not have access to a commercialized symbol or nicely shaped wire so they use crappily shaped wire hangers and sometimes have to apply it more than once. Even those who do have access to a symbol often try to do "double branding" or put chapter symbols alongside the organization's symbols.

We don't know what tool and technique were used in this instance.

Anything larger risks skin sloughing since the skin around the brand will actually cook as well as the skin below the appliance. It may not look too terrible to you now, but the cell death will spread over the next few days...that's why he'll require several surgeries to repair the damage.

You're typing as a health expert.

Think along the lines of a dumbass drunk collegiate who knows nothing about burns and the negatives of branding.

[knight_shadow]

I've seen a few, but I actually have a lot of experience with burns. That brand was the result of multiple applications. They would have had to heat the brand and apply it to his skin more than once. The majority of brands I have seen have been a single sybol that is no larger than about 6". Anything larger risks skin sloughing since the skin around the brand will actually cook as well as the skin below the appliance. It may not look too terrible to you now, but the cell death will spread over the next few days...that's why he'll require several surgeries to repair the damage.

Many of the brands I've seen have come from multiple applications. Not saying it's right, but it's not out of the ordinary.

He's a grown man who made a grown up decision. His bad.

I'm not really inclined to believe that he was "forced" into doing it. The Carter family is very prominent in FW, especially around the TCU area. I will agree with DrPhil again -- I think he did something stupid, got found out, and is now trying to save face.

[OleMissGlitter]

I must live under a big rock...who is Amon Carter?

[knight_shadow]

I must live under a big rock...who is Amon Carter?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amon_G._Carter

[AOII Angel]

Many of the brands I've seen have come from multiple applications. Not saying it's right, but it's not out of the ordinary.

He's a grown man who made a grown up decision. His bad.

I'm not really inclined to believe that he was "forced" into doing it. The Carter family is very prominent in FW, especially around the TCU area. I will agree with DrPhil again -- I think he did something stupid, got found out, and is now trying to save face.

That may be, but automatically labeling him a liar just because of his family is wrong. He has a huge wound. Let there be an investigation. There is definitely enough question out there to warrant that. BTW...when I say multiple, I mean MANY, not like two or three. If he said stop after they started, they should have stopped. I for one, believe that he would have said stop. I think anyone would have said stop. Let's see more evidence. Show us the video, pictures of the defensive wounds, but calling him out because he is a Carter is classist.

[DrPhil]

I just don't assume someone is lying because they have money and a privileged background.

Neither do I.

Take my posts within their full context. Not to mention, what's embedded in your posts is an assumption regarding my own background. ;)

[DrPhil]

Let there be an investigation.

Yeah we're definitely trying to stop the investigation. We're so sold on our opinions based on this limited info that nothing else matters.

[knight_shadow]

calling him out because he is a Carter is classist.

And assuming that he was completely oblivious to that fact that burning your flesh could hurt is naive.

[Zillini]

Here's a potential legal problem IMO, somebody had to actually plan this out, though not necessarily to do it to this guy. "TCU Branding Iron" doesn't normally appear on someone's ski trip packing list.

[OleMissGlitter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amon_G._Carter

Thanks. I guess he is more of a local philanthropist.

[knight_shadow]

Here's a potential legal problem IMO, somebody had to actually plan this out, though not necessarily to do it to this guy. "TCU Branding Iron" doesn't normally appear on someone's ski trip packing list.

Wire hangers.

[DrPhil]

Here's a potential legal problem IMO, somebody had to actually plan this out, though not necessarily to do it to this guy. "TCU Branding Iron" doesn't normally appear on someone's ski trip packing list.

So, is it the branding of members that is the problem?

Of course it was planned out. The packing of a branding iron is quite common for GLO chapters that engage in branding. If you are getting a group together, that is the perfect time to brand those who want to be branded.

[Zillini]

Wire hangers.

Shows how little I know about this sort of thing.

[DrPhil]

Wire hangers.

NO. WIRE. HANGGERRRRRRRSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!

[LaneSig]

But reality will still put your ass behind bars.

I want to put that in my signature. :D

[Zillini]

So, is it the branding of members that is the problem?

Of course it was planned out. The packing of a branding iron is quite common for GLO chapters that engage in branding. If you are getting a group together, that is the perfect time to brand those who want to be branded.
My point was if something was brought with to do this (until K_S pointed out wire hangers), then legally it could be viewed as premeditated assault.

[Gusteau]

Wire hangers.

NO. WIRE. HANGGERRRRRRRSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.alimartell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/MommieDearest.jpg

[AOII Angel]

That is often how it is done. The majority of GLO branders (going back to the much more visible BGLO branding) do not have access to a commercialized symbol or nicely shaped wire so they use crappily shaped wire hangers and sometimes have to apply it more than once. Even those who do have access to a symbol often try to do "double branding" or put chapter symbols alongside the organization's symbols.

We don't know what tool and technique were used in this instance.



You're typing as a health expert.

Think along the lines of a dumbass drunk collegiate who knows nothing about burns and the negatives of branding.
This was exactly my point...that brand took multiple applications which he may not have expected or erroneously thought he could handle. Agreeing to it at the beginning is irrelevant. If he withdrew his consent, it becomes assault.

Neither do I.

Take my posts within their full context. Not to mention, what's embedded in your posts is an assumption regarding my own background. ;) I'm not assuming anything about your background. Just using what you typed...He's a member of a fraternity who consented to getting a brand. He's saving face for his wealthy helicopter family. And they are reacting as a wealthy helicopter family would.

Yeah we're definitely trying to stop the investigation. We're so sold on our opinions based on this limited info that nothing else matters. Ha...that's funny.

And assuming that he was completely oblivious to that fact that burning your flesh could hurt is naive.
How many guys do you know that act macho and pretend they can handle more than they can?

[AOII Angel]

I want to put that in my signature. :D

I give you permission :)

[knight_shadow]

How many guys do you know that act macho and pretend they can handle more than they can?

Some of my brothers have asked me to get a brand. I said no.

8 years later, I'm still brand-free.

If he REALLY didn't want one, he didn't have to get one.

[AOII Angel]

Some of my brothers have asked me to get a brand. I said no.

8 years later, I'm still brand-free.

If he REALLY didn't want one, he didn't have to get one.

I agree, I'm not arguing that he wasn't a complete moron to say yes at the onset, but as a feminist who believes that no means no, I really do believe that once you say no, the activity MUST stop. This happens in medicine all the time. I'm doing a procedure and the patient wants me to stop. I have to stop, otherwise, I actually can be charged with assault, as well. We all make mistakes, but if you are doing something to someone, and they want you to quit, it is in your best interest and theirs to stop immediately.

[knight_shadow]

I agree, I'm not arguing that he wasn't a complete moron to say yes at the onset, but as a feminist who believes that no means no, I really do believe that once you say no, the activity MUST stop. This happens in medicine all the time. I'm doing a procedure and the patient wants me to stop. I have to stop, otherwise, I actually can be charged with assault, as well. We all make mistakes, but if you are doing something to someone, and they want you to quit, it is in your best interest and theirs to stop immediately.

I won't argue with you that no means no.

I've seen a lot of people get branded, though, and I've never heard someone say stop while getting one. And until I hear otherwise, I still can't wrap my head around that fact that these guys would do this to a member of the Carter family without his consent.

I'm sure more information is going to come up soon. I'm interested in seeing where this goes.

[Senusret I]

Since when can they show butt cheeks on the news?

[knight_shadow]

Since when can they show butt cheeks on the news?

Apparently, it's less of a cheek if they blur the ass crack *shrugs*

[DrPhil]

This was exactly my point...that brand took multiple applications which he may not have expected or erroneously thought he could handle. Agreeing to it at the beginning is irrelevant. If he withdrew his consent, it becomes assault.

The bolded does not automatically an assault make.

I'm not assuming anything about your background. Just using what you typed..

Okay, so k_s and I are classist and making judgments of the wealthy and privileged because we are..........

No, you aren't using what I typed within its full context. You just picked up the "wealthy families" part.

How many guys do you know that act macho and pretend they can handle more than they can?

Branding for men and women is often about pretending you can handle more than you can. So, does that make this Carter guy an idiot who is learning a lesson or a victim of assault? That's what the investigation is for.

[Ch2tf]

I'm going for a reach on this one. I agree with Dr. Phil, he's trying to save face in lieu of his helicopter family.

[DrPhil]

....but as a feminist who believes that no means no.....

This is as interesting of an appeal as your mention of rape earlier.

I'm also a feminist who thinks that no means no.

That doesn't mean that "no means no" applies to everything and that victimization is so easily assumed. That's why there are investigations.

ETA: Ch2tf, I'm just going based on the pieces of puzzle that were in the story. Is it a mere coincidence that a fraternity member from an influential family travels with friends, gets drunk, is assaulted, and comes back with a jacked up brand on his ass? Surely his fraternity brothers aren't dumb enough to consciously assault someone from an influential family. Sure, the alcohol could've taken all brain cells away for everyone involved. It's just way too stupid and convenient.

[VandalSquirrel]

http://www.alimartell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/MommieDearest.jpg

I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at the way your brand turned out.

[Senusret I]

I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at the way your brand turned out.

YESSSSS

[VandalSquirrel]

YESSSSS

This isn't my first time at the rodeo boys!

[Ghostwriter]

Am I the only one who thinks this story is funny! Good grief talk about your buyers remorse.

After an edit.

Darn. My fraternity.

I have never heard of a Kappa Sig brand. Guess if you are stupid enough anything can be branded. Still think it is funny. Don't know for sure but it appears he was a brother and not a pledge.

http://media.www.tcudailyskiff.com/media/storage/paper792/news/2010/01/28/News/University.Investigates.Student.Branding-3859549.shtml

[knight_shadow]

Carter said he consented to being branded on his left buttock but received an additional large area of second- and third-degree burns on his right buttock.

---

Carter said that while he believes he was partially responsible for the incident, he does not believe he should be punished.


He's so full of shit.

[ree-Xi]

"Carter said that since local television station WFAA aired a report about the incident Tuesday, he felt alienated both from his fraternity brothers and the university community. He said Wednesday that he did not want to continue his affiliation with the fraternity and that he is uncertain whether he will remain at the university.

Carter said he planned to receive laser treatments to reduce scarring. He and Craven said it had been estimated that it would take at least six treatments.

"It's something I'll never really be able to get rid of even though I'm having the laser treatments done," Carter said. "This whole situation has just put so much stress on my family and me that nothing justifies it."
Carter said that while he believes he was partially responsible for the incident, he does not believe he should be punished."





So what DOES he want done? Apparently his father is the one pushing for the investigation, but the kid agreed to get branded in the first place. What kind of condition was he in that he could not stop them from branding him a second and third time? I am not one to blame the victim, but it's like he said "go ahead and burn me, but not too much".

I am not sure what kind of vindication the family wants out of this. Will bringing it to light prevent it from happening again?

[Ghostwriter]

Let's see, was he drinking underage? If so, should they seek vindication from from the beer, wine or liquor producer? How about the store that sold it to whomever?

If one of my kids did this I would tell them to rub some aloe on it and shut the hell up cos' that's what you get for being a drunk dumb**s!

[knight_shadow]

Let's see, was he drinking underage? If so, should they seek vindication from from the beer, wine or liquor producer? How about the store that sold it to whomever?

I was thinking that, too. Why isn't anyone bitching about the fact that he's (likely) underage?

If one of my kids did this I would tell them to rub some aloe on it and shut the hell up cos' that's what you get for being a drunk dumb**s!

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~healthed/images/robitussin.jpg

Chris Rock flashback lol

[RU OX Alum]

That is truly disgusting. Poor guy. I think the most important point made was that hazing is against the law and no one can consent to being hazed.



Yes you can. WEll, wait, no maybe not. If you consent it isn't hazing, though, right?

[Psi U MC Vito]

Yes you can. WEll, wait, no maybe not. If you consent it isn't hazing, though, right?
It is still hazing, because it even if you comply it is because of coercion.

[Ghostwriter]

It is still hazing, because it even if you comply it is because of coercion.

I believe it is hard to haze an initiated member. I truly don't know the laws on this but am sure someone here does. I my opinion, since a member or brother holds no power over another member it could not be hazing. It could be assault though if it was against their will but this does not seem to be the case here. Anyway if Kappa Sig National does anything to the chapter I will be ticked. Like I said this is just drunk dumb**ses who acted like idiots. Wonder if one of the girls branded him?

[mtcu]

I must live under a big rock...who is Amon Carter?

No, not a rock - you just don't live in DFW. The TCU Football Stadium, among other buildings on campus are named after his family.

[Senusret I]

I believe it is hard to haze an initiated member. I truly don't know the laws on this but am sure someone here does. I my opinion, since a member or brother holds no power over another member it could not be hazing. It could be assault though if it was against their will but this does not seem to be the case here. Anyway if Kappa Sig National does anything to the chapter I will be ticked. Like I said this is just drunk dumb**ses who acted like idiots. Wonder if one of the girls branded him?

People consent to hazing not just to gain the status of membership, but to maintain status through membership.

You feel compelled to do something because the choice to NOT do it will lead to social ostracization.

Google "post-pledging" and you can see an example or two of this.

[Ghostwriter]

I'll just bet anything one of the ladies they were with branded him. The sorority was named in the complaint.

Anyway he should man up, shut up and rub some dirt on it.

[DrPhil]

People consent to hazing not just to gain the status of membership, but to maintain status through membership.

You feel compelled to do something because the choice to NOT do it will lead to social ostracization.

Google "post-pledging" and you can see an example or two of this.

Yep.

It's bascially peer pressure and the stresses of social networking within a GLO context.

[why.so.curious?]

Ok he consented the first time he was branded, but then he was branded several times while passed out. He didn't consent to that. The Star-Telegram article says that once he passed out, someone (presumably fraternity brothers) continued to brand him with Deltas (for Tri Delt). He's not completely innocent, but the facts need to be taken into consideration.

[knight_shadow]

Ok he consented the first time he was branded, but then he was branded several times while passed out. He didn't consent to that. The Star-Telegram article says that once he passed out, someone (presumably fraternity brothers) continued to brand him with Deltas (for Tri Delt). He's not completely innocent, but the facts need to be taken into consideration.

I don't believe he was passed out.

He's trying to relieve himself of responsibility when he was just as liable.

[pres_ciha]

Branding can get you kicked off campus even if you consent. That is what happened to my brother and his chapter.

[RU OX Alum]

It is still hazing, because it even if you comply it is because of coercion.

You cannont concent based on coercion. You either concent or you are coerced. He said he concented to have a hot metal iron placed against his ass cheek, but didn't consent to be burned. This is stupid. That's like saying I meant to go swimming, but am mad now that I'm wet.

[baci]

True^^

This is serious and it doesn't matter if he consented once, twice, or three times.

Keep in mind hazing refers to any activity expected of someone joining a group - or to maintain full status in a group - that humiliates, degrades or risks emotional and/or physical harm, regardless of the person's willingness to participate.

[RU OX Alum]

He's so full of shit.

I agree.

[MysticCat]

It is still hazing, because it even if you comply it is because of coercion.From a legal/criminal/disciplinary standpoint, it's probably off-the-mark to say you can't consent to hazing. Obviously as a practical matter, you can, although that consent can indeed be based on coercion and given under duress.

But the relevant legal factor is that consent is not a defense to a charge of hazing.

Keep in mind hazing refers to any activity expected of someone joining a group - or to maintain full status in a group - that humiliates, degrades or risks emotional and/or physical harm, regardless of the person's willingness to participate.While this may be generally true, it all depends on how "hazing" is defined by the relevant state law or institutional policy. In my state, it's only hazing if there's physical injury involved. Humiliation and emotional harm don't meet the legal definition.

[LaneSig]

Ok he consented the first time he was branded, but then he was branded several times while passed out. He didn't consent to that. The Star-Telegram article says that once he passed out, someone (presumably fraternity brothers) continued to brand him with Deltas (for Tri Delt). He's not completely innocent, but the facts need to be taken into consideration.

I'm having problems with the "passed out" part. If I was passed out, either by being drunk or whatever, I can guarantee that the first time someone held a piece of hot metal to my ass, I would be up. They wouldn't be able to do it "several times" and me stay passed out.

But then, I have a low pain threshold. I don't see how women get their legs waxed. I'd be all, "Yeah, not again. I'll walk around with hairy legs."

[exlurker]

I must live under a big rock...who is Amon Carter?

From one of the many news reports:

" . . . the Carters, who brought Chance Carter to the emergency room for treatment as soon as he returned home, have already consulted with a plastic surgeon who estimated it would take at least six procedures to repair.

. . . The Carters are one of the most prominent families in Forth Worth. Amon G. Carter was the president and publisher of the Forth Worth Star-Telegram newspaper in the 1920s "

(Ole Miss Glitter, I wondered the same thing, which certainly says something about my lowly social standing.)

[AOII Angel]

(Ole Miss Glitter, I wondered the same thing, which certainly says something about my lowly social standing.)

Or like for most people, Fort Worth is not the center of the universe :p

[knight_shadow]

Or like for most people, Fort Worth is not the center of the universe :p

:eek:

[AGDee]

I could see passing out from the pain itself. That happens.

[squirrely girl]

I don't believe he was passed out.



seriously?! cause you were there and all? do you have some super psychic power the rest of us don't know about? seriously, enough with the victim blaming. it's no classier when used to make excuses for people who brand than it is to mitigate the behavior of a rapist.

sure he got drunk and made a crappy decision. i'm pretty sure a few of us here have done some stupid crap while drunk. sure he "consented." aside from the issue that i don't really believe you can truly "consent" to hazing activities anymore than you can truly consent to sex while drunk. but i agree that when he withdrew his consent either verbally or by becoming unconscious they should have stopped. this isn't really a difficult concept to understand. again, this is called assault. i liken it very much to date rapists that have sex with disturbingly drunk or unconscious girls. people who assault other people do so because they think they're special and because they're self-absorbed people who don't value the rights of others. disfiguring scars and multiple surgeries aren't a "lesson" anybody should have to "learn."

and i'm "so sorry" for the "poor" guys (and girls?) that are going to get taken to task over this but if people haven't figured out that its not a good idea to engage in activities that could be considered hazing, in Colorado of all places... then their DUMB ASSES deserve to go to jail.

- m

[DrPhil]

seriously, enough with the victim blaming.

Assuming there's a victim.

it's no classier....

"Classy" is such an overused word on GC.

I honestly don't hear adults walking around talking about "classy."

[squirrely girl]

Assuming there's a victim.


well going from the idea that he didn't burn his own butt... or continue to burn his own butt...

and if the crux of your response is your distaste for the overuse of the word classy, let me first apologize profusely and then ask for a list of more obscure words with which to make my future points.

[DrPhil]

well going from the idea that he didn't burn his own butt... or continue to burn his own butt...

...then he may've been just another person who agreed to get branded by people who don't know what they're doing. It unfortunately happens.

If people are going to play the fence on this one, cool. However, if people are going to assume he's a victim just because there are accusations, the rest of us will continue being as skeptical as we are being.

[knight_shadow]

but i agree that when he withdrew his consent either verbally or by becoming unconscious they should have stopped.

He withdrew his consent? Seriously?! Cause you were there and all? Do you have some super psychic power the rest of us don't know about?

Works both ways.

[epchick]

...then he may've been just another person who agreed to get branded by people who don't know what they're doing. It unfortunately happens.

If people are going to play the fence on this one, cool. However, if people are going to assume he's a victim just because there are accusations, the rest of us will continue being as skeptical as we are being.

For reals!! lol


So this is probably how it happened.....

Dude gets drunk w/ buddies and buddies think it would be cool to get branded but no one was 'brave' enough to volunteer.

Dude volunteers, cause he wants to show he's cool.

Dude gets the brand, and is probably too drunk to even realize what he's done.

Mommy and Daddy stumble across the brand and realize that their immaculate son has been horribly disfigured by hooligans.

Dude is too embarrassed to tell the truth so he blames it on 'hazing.'


The. End.

[kchaptergphib]

My take on this (also as someone not familiar with the Carters or the DFW area) is that the guy is, quite literally a DUMB*SS. I feel a bit sorry for him that he's going to have to continue to endure sh*t like surgeries and ridicule and people talking about him on message boards, but you did something dumb, your family may be blowing it out of proportion, and great-grandaddy's paper is publicizing it, what do you expect?!
I'll repeat: literally, DUMBASS.

[KSig RC]

So . . . you don't believe he was passed out because . . . he was drunk? Because he's rich and stupid? Or any other of a variety of factors that probably point more toward that conclusion?

Think about this from the angle of how we found out about this bit of information. Seriously. Think about it, then concentrate. It carries much more credibility than most of us are assigning.

Also, if you've seen the photos of the one that's not the Kappa Sigma, I mean . . . it does not exactly look like a coordinated effort. This smacks of people forming a hypothesis than freezing on it, even in light of additional information.

[DrPhil]

So . . . you don't believe he was passed out because . . . he was drunk? Because he's rich and stupid? Or any other of a variety of factors that probably point more toward that conclusion?

Think about this from the angle of how we found out about this bit of information. Seriously. Think about it, then concentrate. It carries much more credibility than most of us are assigning.

Also, if you've seen the photos of the one that's not the Kappa Sigma, I mean . . . it does not exactly look like a coordinated effort. This smacks of people forming a hypothesis than freezing on it, even in light of additional information.

Maybe I'm high on life, but this post made absolutely no sense to me. LOL :)

As for the passed out thing, I don't doubt he passed out just as quite a few people probably passed out in that binge drinking collegiate setting.

[33girl]

He withdrew his consent? Seriously?! Cause you were there and all? Do you have some super psychic power the rest of us don't know about?

Works both ways.

If he became unconscious, then he no longer has ability to consent so it's basically = withdrawing consent. The question is whether he really did become unconscious.

My personal question is who has "Chance" for a nickname.

[knight_shadow]

If he became unconscious, then he no longer has ability to consent so it's basically = withdrawing consent. The question is whether he really did become unconscious.

I know :)

I don't believe he was unconscious.

My personal question is who has "Chance" for a nickname.

*chuckle*

[Ch2tf]

"Carter said that since local television station WFAA aired a report about the incident Tuesday, he felt alienated both from his fraternity brothers and the university community. He said Wednesday that he did not want to continue his affiliation with the fraternity and that he is uncertain whether he will remain at the university.
Carter said that while he believes he was partially responsible for the incident, he does not believe he should be punished."



So he made a dumbass decision when drunk, his fraternity brothers could face legal consequences because of it (with the push coming from his dad/family) and he feels punished because his brothers are alienating him? C'mon son, GTFOHWTBS!

[RU OX Alum]

[QUOTE=ree-Xi;1890443][I]"Carter said that since local television station WFAA aired a report about the incident Tuesday, he felt alienated both from his fraternity brothers and the university community. He said Wednesday that he did not want to continue his affiliation with the fraternity and that he is uncertain whether he will remain at the university.
[I]Carter said that while he believes he was partially responsible for the incident, he does not believe he should be punished."



So he made a dumbass decision when drunk, his fraternity brothers could face legal consequences because of it (with the push coming from his dad/family) and he feels punished because his brothers are alienating him? C'mon son, GTFOHWTBS!

what does GTFOHWTBS means? Get the F Over How whiny tasty bacon strips?

[knight_shadow]

what does GTFOHWTBS means? Get the F Over How whiny tasty bacon strips?

Get the f outta here with that bullshit

lol

[DrPhil]

I know :)

I don't believe he was unconscious.


I don't believe he was passed out during the branding but he could've passed out soon after--binge drinking and all. Then again, that's what an investigation is for.

What was that story with the young lady a year or so ago who claimed she was tattooed(sp) against her will? Isn't that what she claimed?

[Elephant Walk]

so, according to the old row boards (whether or not they're correct or this is just rumor I don't know), but the boards say that they branded delta delta delta on his other ass cheek while he was crashed, because there was some other tri-delts with him. Basically he had one brand that he wasn't so opposed to, but the tri-delt one... he wasn't a big fan.

If that's so, it's assault, not hazing.

Whether or not this rumor is true, I don't know.

[AOII Angel]

so, according to the old row boards (whether or not they're correct or this is just rumor I don't know), but the boards say that they branded delta delta delta on his other ass cheek while he was crashed, because there was some other tri-delts with him. Basically he had one brand that he wasn't so opposed to, but the tri-delt one... he wasn't a big fan.

If that's so, it's assault, not hazing.

Whether or not this rumor is true, I don't know.

Nice...underage binge drinking raises its ugly head again! They'll regret this for some time. Even if criminal charges aren't filed and their chapter doesn't suffer consequences, I bet the people involved will end up having civil suits filed against them. I agree that this is assault, but in the eye of the public, with fraternities, their is no difference between hazing and assault. I just wonder how much they disliked "Chance" to do this to him while he's passed out.

[DrPhil]

so, according to the old row boards (whether or not they're correct or this is just rumor I don't know), but the boards say that they branded delta delta delta on his other ass cheek while he was crashed, because there was some other tri-delts with him. Basically he had one brand that he wasn't so opposed to, but the tri-delt one... he wasn't a big fan.

If that's so, it's assault, not hazing.

Whether or not this rumor is true, I don't know.

That sucks big time.

Binge drinking collegiates do yet another dumb thing. If the old row account of it is correct, isn't assault essentially synonymous with hazing in such instances, as far as many are concerned?

Angel, it reads like they were dumb beyond human comprehension. I don't assume they didn't like Chance so much as they were using their brand (they probably were extremely inexperienced in branding) to mark their drunkeness and stupidity. At the same time, I have heard of people getting other organizations' symbols branded on them as a sign of some "bond." It is dumb but not unheard of.

[why.so.curious?]

Their logic:

"Your name is on our football stadium, so our name should be on your ass"

[DST4A00]

Did you see the video? That does not look like a branding that anyone would agree to. That looks like assault. My first reaction was the same as yours, but you can't expect him to take one in the *ss just because he has a prominent family. Would you say this to a rape victim who consented but said no once it got out of control? This event, by the looks of his wound, got wayyyyyy out of control!

He flinched. Pain will sober you up pretty quickly.

[DST4A00]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amon_G._Carter

cool so it wasn't just me.

[LaneSig]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6874687.html

No charges to be filed in case. Reasons:

#1- Carter is on video willingly agreeing to branding.

#2- He is already an initiated member of his fraternity, so it is not hazing.

[Preston327]

Interesting. Point one I can sort of see, but I wouldn't think active-vs.-pledge would have any bearing on whether or not something's hazing. It doesn't in my state, at least.

[knight_shadow]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6874687.html

No charges to be filed in case. Reasons:

#1- Carter is on video willingly agreeing to branding.

#2- He is already an initiated member of his fraternity, so it is not hazing.

Well, golly.

Whoda thunk it?

Thanks for the update, Lane :)

[AOII Angel]

But lets just wait for those civil charges...

[RU OX Alum]

He wasn't consenting to being hazed. He was consenting to getting a brand just like some idiot might consent to getting a tattoo. If the tattoo is bad it does not make it hazing.

Yeah, everyone tell you to get branded or you don't get in his hazing. Agreeing to a brand that comes out bad because your friends don't hire a professional (seriously, it usually the same place as the tattoo shop if you want one bad enough.)

[DrPhil]

Agreeing to a brand that comes out bad because your friends don't hire a professional (seriously, it usually the same place as the tattoo shop if you want one bad enough.)

Getting branded by a nonmember (professional or not) is usually frowned upon. Chapters and areas usually have a person or people who know what they're doing eventhough the person isn't a professional and doesn't get paid.

[RU OX Alum]

He wasn't consenting to being hazed. He was consenting to getting a brand just like some idiot might consent to getting a tattoo. If the tattoo is bad it does not make it hazing.

Yeah, everyone tell you to get branded or you don't get in his hazing. Agreeing to a brand that comes out bad because your friends don't hire a professional (seriously, it usually the same place as the tattoo shop if you want one bad enough.)

[Texan2]

I went to TCU. The moment I saw this story I didn't need to know which house it was. I knew it was Kappa Sig. Their TCU chapter usually consists of local Fort Worth yokels and rednecks from the surrounding areas.

[Ghostwriter]

I went to TCU. The moment I saw this story I didn't need to know which house it was. I knew it was Kappa Sig. Their TCU chapter usually consists of local Fort Worth yokels and rednecks from the surrounding areas.

Painting with an awful broad brush there aren't you, Bubba?

[Langox510x]

Branding is dumb, the the parents of that kid should realize that their son is a dumb ass too. If a fellow brother was set on getting branded I wouldn't stop him, but I don't think I'd be watching either. Poor little rich boy... :rolleyes: